Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: spyralle on August 22, 2007, 05:13:23 PM
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I am forcing myself to write this because I can feel myself going downwards again.. The last thing I want to do is sit here.. I want to go to bed and pull the covers over my head and make like I don't exist.. After the last letter to my d from my mum... i had sent my mum a letter and a photo album full of pictures of the baby (before we received her letter).. Yesterday I got another letter.. It was totally different from the last two. It was a thankyou card for the album she also congratulated me on my new job and wished me happy belated birthday.. She says she has been very depressed for the first tmie in her life...
I ran around the house looking for her number to ring her but couldn't find it... I got more and more anxious and today I have just been an anxious mess... All I want to do is phone her.. It's that simple.. one card and I am jumping.. and I can't help it. I feel so desperately sorry for her.. I am very confused right now and totally exhausted..
Spy xxx
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Spy,
Why, exactly, do you need to contact her now? After the last two, confusingly different, letters.
I think I know the answer, but can you get it down 'on paper', as it were? Would that help right now?
I'm sorry things are so confusing. I remember how that feels - it screws you up.
Janet
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She has decided to be nice to you now and wants you to feel for her (poor her, depressed). I don't know spyralle. I remember those letters to you and your D and in the context - all she is doing seems extremely manipulative.
(((((spyralle)))))
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Dear Spy,
I am just going to share what "hit" me when I read your post. I think that she is trying to "reel" you in. I think that, for some reason ,she can tell that you are doing well. She wants to try to pull you in andmake you lose confidence in yourself ,again (IMO).
I could be be very wrong,but that is what hit me.
I think that you will go in to a downward spiral if you contact her. Maybe-- not immediately,but she will eventually propel you downward. At first, it might feel good. (We all want to believe that our mothers are really o.k.)
Spy, I really hated when you were in a depression a while ago. You were really, really hurting. Remember that awful letter about your house.
You have been really doing well. please take the time to consider my words,Spy, before you do anything Love Ami
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Spy)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
I am so sorry.
When I read what you wrote, it reminded me so much of my mother who would change tactics like a chameleon to try and suck me right back into her black hole. (Not sure if this applies to your mother – it just really reminded me of mine.)
Some of her tactics: the helpless act, the guilt-inducing comments, rages, tears (as in poor poor me life has been so hard), illness, depression…..you name it and she would try and use it.
In my “past life,” if I responded right away, I would fall right back into that old black hole. I learned that it was best to give it some time to make a decision on whether or not to contact her, and if I did contact her, how I would handle it. It helped me keep my objectivity to some extent.
I am so sorry you are going through this. I am thinking of you.
Peace
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As I am new here I don't have much to add. I do want to say that this is the same thing my mom does. Since I am unfamiliar with your story I will say only that your friends here seem to offer good advice.
Maybe give it a day or so before contacting her, and see how you feel then.
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Everything is going well for you and she cannor stand it---so she pulls a pity-me and you come running?
NO! she wants control again. Sounds to me she thinks she has lost it--wants it back!
I wouldn't call her!
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I am forcing myself to write this because I can feel myself going downwards again.. The last thing I want to do is sit here.. I want to go to bed and pull the covers over my head and make like I don't exist..
I am sorry that you are feeling this way. Your words could fit the way I have felt so often the past few years. It is a hideous way to feel. I haven't any advice for the specific situation you are in. I don't know about the difficulties with your mother. But I do hope that you can find a way to care for yourself, to love and soothe yourself back to a place of comfort and confidence. You deserve that. You deserve to feel good enough to want to be up and about and enjoy life. I hope you can find the place in your mind and your heart that will restore you to a good place. That is what I hope for you and for us all.
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Is there a link where i can read the other letter? (sorry - new here)
Hmmmmmmmmmm, what i would do if i got a nice letter from my mother? Probably trip over myself trying to rush to the car to go see her LOL...
But seriously, you have gotten some good advice. I did get a nice card for my birthday a few yrs ago...it was the last card i ever received. I called her to tell her i got the card and would like to see her...would she like to come to my son's birthday party? Never got a reply, so i guess that's not what she wanted.
I think if your mother has been abusive to you in the past then you should NEVER meet her alone at her house. Meet in a neutral location (shopping mall? bookstore? coffee shop?) some place with a fast easy exit....and maybe go to the spy store and get a pen microphone and tape record your conversation (for review later). I did that with my last converstation with mom just to assure myself i was NOT CRAZY..she really did say some of the things she said....or take a friend with you for a witness.
Never go into a bear den alone without a shot gun and hunting buddy.
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Hi Spyrelle
it's only human nature to want to reach out to our nearest and dearest even when they are really difficult.
Maybe you could slow yourself down by writing to her?
I had a correspondence-only rule with my father for two years which hasn't exactly changed the way he behaves but it has let him know that I can set boundaries and he can't behave however he likes.
The interesting thing for him was he met a woman who is now his new wife in that time!
I guess he didn't have us to lean on ( my siblings backed off too as he tried to involve them in things ) so he had to go out and find his own relationships.
I will say even though I knew it was the best decision during that time I had more anxiety about my father than ever and more pain about our relationship.
But it did end the endless litany of woes which he sent my way on a weekly basis, so it was worth it!
Love to you (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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HI Spy,
How painful. It is so hard to be someone's yo-yo.
I think it's crucial that you never forget for a moment how untrustworthy your M has been in the past, and firmly expect that she is not a new human being and that you will ALWAYS need to protect yourself in any exchange with her.
That said, I believed her. I think she felt genuine guilt and regret and that's why she wrote as she did. I do think an N can feel guilt and regret. It's just that their basic nature is normally etched in something close to stone, so occasional fissures notwithstanding, they still are who they are.
Write's advice, about writing only, sounds good to me. You can't rush to her rescue without hurting yourself, imo.
You could write a short simple note that says how you feel.
What do you think?
love to you,
Hops
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Yeah but Hops - Spy's mom did not come right out and say "I'm sorry for what I wrote. I feel guilty and remorseful for ripping into you so unfairly and viciously and I hope you will forgive me."
She did NOT say that.
She changed the subject.
That's what is so manipulative.
My dad does this too. And then, I have done this a million times, I attribute to him that he feels guilty and he wants me to forgive him. And I do. But actually he never mentions it and never asks for forgiveness.
The fact is we do NOT know if they feel bad and want to be forgiven.
Maybe they are just seeing if we can be sucked in to another round of the cycle.
In this happy side of the circle, it's hard to remember the hell that is the raging N side of the circle. But once you are in the circle, you will definitely hit all the points of it. :?
So it this sweety sweet letter gives me cold chills after reading that insulting ranting accusatory letter that called Spy a wicked woman. And the insinuating letter to her D? Spy read those over again and remember the same person wrote all three. Protect yourself because you are absolutely positively worth protecting.
I think Mom needs to sit in the Time Out Corner for longer!
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I hope you don't mind Spy if I post the link to that letter your Mom wrote you. If you do mind let me know and I'll take it down:
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=5070.msg79273#msg79273
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(((((((Spyralle)))))))
I think that you are an ear of corn and she is buttering you.
I'm so sorry... she is what she is... and I agree with Iphi.
With love,
Hope
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Yoicks, I cave.
(Consider the source, after all: I moved in with mine!) :shock:
:oops:
Points all well taken. I remember the raging, spittle-flecked letter.
Ugghh.
Spy, hon, take care of yourself.
Hops
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((((((((((((((((((((((((((spy))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
You need to take care of yourself, your Mum has looked at those wonderful photo's of your Grandson and realised that she is missing out and the only way that she may ever see him is to start being nice and sweet to you and your daughter...........be careful Spy this sounds like a trap to get her own way.
Its her way of getting what she wants..............the last letter to your daughter was only last week and you were conveniently forgotten about...............and her last letter to you called you wicked...you couldn't be wicked if you tried..
Take care Spy you are loved by so many..........especially that lovely little grandson of yours
lots of love
Sandra
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Hey Spy,
How are you my dear? I am sure that I am joining this conversation late. I hope that you are feeling more centered. I was listening to your first post and feeling the panic in you to run and save. I have seen myself in that same panic. It is a strong flag to me that I am in the game when I panic that way. That I am reacting to the manipulation. I don't know what your mothers genunine feelings are. Maybe they are manipulative and maybe they are genunine. But, I know that when I am centered in myself. The others in my life can fluxuate emotionally and I don't feel that sense of panic or the push and pull. I feel instead a sense of empathy and clear lines of responsibility. If they need something from me, I can evaluate calmly what is needed and offer that from a place of love in my heart. I am learning that if I feel remorse, it is my responsibility. As it is for your mother now. Sounds like to me, though, that your Mom is looking for you to take care of her feelings. And you don't have to. Even if she is sincere. Sounds like her past behavior has made it difficult for you to trust her with your love and care. Sounds like the care she is demanding is the codep kind. That is never love even though I have given it thinking it was love. I alway lose something in the giving. When I give with real love, it is perhaps rejected at times, but I never feel the loss of self.
My heart is with you. Stay centered. Hear yourself and what you should do from that internal voice. Not from panic. Give yourself permission to not take care of her but to take care with yourself.
--poppy
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Dear Poppy,
This is such wise counsel... I will remember and put these truths into practice, as well. Beware the panic & the push-and-pull and we can remove ourselves from the manipulation game. That co-dependent sort of "caring" is so familiar it has a strong, magnetic pull... but we must resist!! Thank you.
Love,
Hope
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Wonderful Spy-
I hope that you are having a grand day today. As for your M's communication, I and so many others on this board have felt similar emotions in response to missives from the Ns in our lives. We crave a newly established normalcy, a real trrust and mutual love in the relationships that we have heretofore only experienced as recipients of N behaviors, which preclude all loving and honest interactions. The wise, experienced and caring advice that you have received on this board would have served me well when I was in the throes of emotions similar to what you are describing, and having them distilled like this on your thread is quite beneficial. I add my own best wishes for your happiness and wholeness. Take good care of yourself Spy!
Many hugs to you and yours,
Changing
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Hi Poppy,
I just want to thank you for putting this with such beautiful clarity.
the care she is demanding is the codep kind. That is never love even though I have given it thinking it was love. I alway lose something in the giving. When I give with real love, it is perhaps rejected at times, but I never feel the loss of self.
Hops
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Hi Sypralle,
Just wanted to let you know I am thinking of you. I hope that everything is ok.
Peace
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your replies. Everything isn't ok really.. Course I couldn't help but reply to the letter and I have really examined why that is.. I think it's the fact that N's have no insight.. She really thimks she is ill and hard done to.. Oh I don't know really.. My head is all confused and messed up and I just feel lonely lonely lonely and overwhelmed.. It seems as I take steps forward I get dragged back.. I hate this weekend..
Spyralle x
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Hi Guys,
Thanks for all your replies. Everything isn't ok really.. Course I couldn't help but reply to the letter and I have really examined why that is.. I think it's the fact that N's have no insight.. She really thimks she is ill and hard done to.. Oh I don't know really.. My head is all confused and messed up and I just feel lonely lonely lonely and overwhelmed.. It seems as I take steps forward I get dragged back.. I hate this weekend..
Spyralle x
((((((((Spyralle))))))))) I'm so sorry you're feeling this deep loneliness. Reading a letter from my mother leaves me feeling cold and lonely, too... and sorry for her lack of insight, and angry at her manipulations, and so many other conflicting feelings.
I just want to say to you that this is not a pass/fail test - whether we respond to them or not, whether we feel "whatever"...
because I think that's where the overwhelmed-ness comes from: from a sense of being unable to reach a firm and final decision re: how to respond... or even whether to respond.
Over the past couple weeks, I've come up with numerous ideas of how and how not to deal with my own mother, but still haven't chosen one and acted upon it. In the meanwhile, another weekly letter arrives in the mail and the whole cycle of anger/pity/emptiness resumes. At one level, I know that I'm the only one who can call a halt to this... but in stopping it, I'm afraid of losing my own feelings... about alot of things, not just her.
So looking at this whole mess as a process, I feel like I have to be willing to take it slow and easy. Whatever I say or don't say to her is not going to be the ultimate change-maker... it's all the self-talk going on within which needs adjustment. Hope that makes some sense... I'm with you over here and I know it's far from easy.
Big hugs and love,
Hope
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Ok Spy, first of all, N's tend to write nice letters in order to reel you back in as a supply source. They don't play fair and they aren't interested in cultivating a nice, loving relationship with you either.
Second of all, if you absolutely cannot stop yourself from wanting to talk with N "mother" here are a couple of suggestions:
1.) Record the convo. That's right! Get out a little tape recorder and record your entire convo with her. After the phone call, write down a quick journal of what happened, how you felt, what your next actions will be, and any other thoughts. Listen to the tape of the convo, and really HEAR her voice, intonation, and notice how you respond or react to her. Use this as a case study for yourself and maybe even to play for yourself next time she tries to lure you.
2.) Have a trusted friend listen in on the convo on another line or on a 3-way convo. I used this technique once to trap a former BPD friend. A mutual friend of ours told me that BPD was bad mouthing me for a long time to her, just like BPD would do her to me. Not wanting to believe it to be true, I decided one day, to have the mutual friend 3-way with me on the line (silently). After I heard for myself, BPD ripping me to shreds behind my back, I then picked up the phone, called BPD, and proceeded to confront her word for word with what she said. Needless to say, she didn't have much to respond with...she had been CAUGHT RED HANDED!
Just some ideas.
Be careful.
~Laura