Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: reallyME on August 24, 2007, 09:27:14 AM
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Hi all.
To anyone who has read or will read with me, PEOPLE OF THE LIE, I'd like to have this thread be a book discussion one if that's ok. I'd like to go, chapter by chapter if we could. I'll start the discussion.
In the first Chapter, the author tells of a man coming to him with OCD problems. He is hearing voices telling him that he ran over a hitchhiker and needs to go back and check in the road. He is hearing that he is going to DIE at certain times and ages. The author helps this man as best as he can, but the man gets angry with him because he will not TELL HIM NOT TO FEED HIS COMPULSIONS...the man wants the author/counselor to COMMAND HIM NOT TO GO BACK AND CHECK ON THE HITCHHIKER, etc, but the counselor refuses to be the man's conscience.
One day, the man comes back to the counselor seemingly free of the ocd. He confesses that he made a pact with the devil.
Gets interesting...comments?
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This is the one where he offers his son's life up, is it not? If he goes back to the bridge, or whatever it was..... his son will die?
I forget but I think the book was interesting and look forward to the discussion.
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LIGHTER
Yep that's the one. I'm on Chapter 2 now.
~Laura
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I think that it is a great book. I will see if I can find it . I may have lent it to someone. I would like to be part of the discussion.
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Laura,
Read this book last year while living abroad with XN. It was chilling how much I could relate to this book and my experiences with XN. I read parts out to him and he told me that the book described him very well. He then decided that he was possessed by evil spirits because of course he could not be responsible for his dreadful behaviour.... another way of not taking responsibility. I don't know if he ever got round to reading the book but I know I found it very useful. Also I remember Peck said that he believed he met evil when he met people with NPD.
axa
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Well, I'm in the midst of Chapter 2, and i read part of it to my husband today, about where the parents gave the gun of the brother who committed suicide to the other brother.
My husband sees nothing wrong with it and tried to get me to SEE WHY the parents might have given the gun to him.
NO EMPATHY, NO SENSITIVITY, NO CLUE...
UGH
One thing I did love about this chapter so far, is how the therapist validates his own right to NOT counsel certain people he just plain can't STAND IN THE SAME ROOM WITH HIM. I have run into this at times in my life...
~Laura
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Laura,
I also have come to the conclusion, having spent years banging my head off the wall, that some people are beyond redemption. I always held the view that there was good in everyone and if they were loved and respected enough the light would shine on them.......... not any more. I think i was very niave and refused to accept reality. Nothing like a dose of N abuse to sort that one out for me.
I discussed the content of the book with Xn also and he just did not see what I saw, he also could not see the problem..........NO EMPATHY
Keeep reading
axa
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Did Peck say that NPD was "evil?" Thanks Ami
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AMi,
Yes, he describes NPD and goes on to say that he believes he met evil when he met Npders..... agree with him on that one.
axa
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Wow, Chapter 3...
We come across a boy named Roger, his parents and a therapy session chuck-full of parental cover-ups and lies and "image"
Roger's parents are clearly cerebral N's if ever there were some.
Although Rog gets sent away to boarding school, I was wondering if maybe ANYPLACE BUT WITH THOSE CRAZY SO-CALLED PARENTS, would have been safer and saner for that young man.
UGH
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I loved this book and couldn't put it down.
Not a "feel good" book, more of a "feel bad" book.
It's very eye opening, but guess it left me a bit depressed, but worth reading. Helped me to spot the Ns.
I guess on some level, it's hard for me to accept my N parents were evil. Maybe there was a touch of evil, but I'd rather view Nism as a condition of unawareness on the part of the N. I think Ns are Ns because they were raised by Ns and they lack awareness of their Nness. Maybe that's my denial.
Anyway, I think you will get a lot out of the book.
Sally
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Sally,
I think what you are trying to say is similar to the way I view N's, which is why I still love Kay, even in spite of how she treated me. I see N's as victims too. People generally do not become N's on their own.
As children, adult-Ns were either a.) spoiled b.) abused c.) neglected...or sometimes, in I think RARE cases, N's are just born that way, due to chemical distortions or something physical in the brain or neurological.
~Laura
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Yes, Laura, I agree. You’ve got me thinking, so I’m going to expand my thoughts:
I think Ns are Ns because they were raised by Ns (or they are genetically inclined towards Nness-nature vs. nurture) and they lack awareness of their Nness.
Ns lack awareness of their Nness because they are blinded by their denial.
Ns are in denial of the “evil” that was done to them as children (they were damaged because they were spoiled, abused, neglected).
Since Ns are in denial and cannot (because they do not WANT to) see the truth, Ns perpetuate the “evil” that was done to them by doing “evil” to their children and to others: Ns spoil, abuse & neglect their children and others.
If the children of Ns are ‘lucky’, the children become aware of their parents’ Nness and do not pass the Nness on to the next generation. Aware children of Ns try not to perpetuate the evil.
Have you gotten to the chapter with the husband and wife? I think those people scared me the most, although towards the end of the book, you’ll read about a female patient of Dr. Peck’s and she’s pretty frightening too.
Sally
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hello everyone,
Trying to figure out the N's in my life is difficult. As far as I can tell, there is no history of abuse. All we can see is that fundamentalism, religiously and otherwise, has played a big role. Needing so badly for things to be perfect and to be happy and creating and controlling the universe and the people in the universe to keep it that way. It is interesting to me that in this whip cream world that they are the most protected and most fearful individuals. I am constantly reminding myself, especially in the crazymaking moments, that true happiness doesn't need such extra-ordinary protections. And real happiness can tolerate the ups and downs of living this human life. I truly admire individuals who can have the world's worst curcomstances and still find the ability to have a smile in their hearts and positive in their attitudes. My N people don't have this ability at all. Problems are denied. Truth is denied. Only the fantasy remains. It is an amazing fabrication to me. Almost true. Yet so far from true.
I guess we all are chain breakers. Making sure we don't pass it along. I pray that I don't pass along my "stuff". I am sure some of it will rub off. I guess I hope that my kids will be armed with tools to keep their lives grounded and rooted in truth. And know all about boundaries and self power.
--poppy
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Ahh Poppy.
Your kids have a mother who is alert, aware, on guard against rigid tendencies, and knows red flags when she sees them.
Of course your good gifts will rub off on them! And maybe some of your challenges too.
That's what will make them just as human as anybody else, but perhaps better loved than many.
You don't even have to figure out every last thing about Ns. You are very conscious and you're a good mother.
I'll bet my briefcase.
Hops
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Wow. Thanks!! I am trying to be a good mom. They are really great kids, you know? I am really really lucky!!! They make me laugh! I am really blest. You have such positive and amazing perspective. Love that!!!!
--poppy
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I am constantly reminding myself, especially in the crazymaking moments, that true happiness doesn't need such extra-ordinary protections. And real happiness can tolerate the ups and downs of living this human life.
Ah, Poppy,
A truly quotable quote! I want to print that on a banner and fly it from my balcony!
I think you are going to do a marvelous job of passing that on to your children. They want to know what you know and this conclusion about life is going to be very satisfying and freeing to them.
Love,
CB
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Hi RM,
I'm up to my ears catching up still from my 'hell month' back in May. I'm reading along though. Your participation on the board has been an inspiration over the last year or so. Thanks.
tt
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CHAPTER 4
WOW! this was life with KAY all over again. She had this same sort of air about her, yet, in a way, because she also was a mix of BPD, OCD and AVOIDANT PD, she exhibited a sense of "innocence" about her.
The girl in this story...Charlene, was enough to give ANYONE a major migraine! She had a way of being so in-yer-face, challenging and RUDE, that you KNOW she was a narcissist or just plain POSSESSED by the devil!
This chapter really sets one up to read the next one for sure! The therapist discovers that there are some people who go BEYOND the psych issues into a spiritually EVIL realm.
It was one that kept me a bit rivited to my seat for a while.
See ya on the other side of Chapter 5, ya'll.
~Laura
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This chapter was about delieverance and exorcism from devils, demons, evil spirits, satan, etc.
I was very hesitantto even comment on it, because when I first came to this board, long ago, I happened to mention that I have not only been the deliveree, but also have prayed for deliverance from devils from people. This caused me to get blasted, "flamed," and generally, it silenced me on the topic.
The truth is though, I HAVE indeed had devils cast from me and have cast them out of others. The POWER is God's not mine, but yes, it's real, it does work and people can get free of the torment.
In this book, the author gives a very "sketchy" picture of the two deliverances that he conducted. I could give much better details of how it all works. I'm not saying that to sound like I'm "all that" either, but I am letting you know that he leaves out the whole gist of the practice in this chapter, for whatever reason.
The one thing the author said, that jumped out at me though, was this: "So I have no idea whether satan actively recruits the commonly evil to its work. I suspect not. Given the dynamics of sin and narcissism, I suspect they recruit themselves. But until such time as we have greater knowledge of satan, my understanding remains faint." ( Peck, PEOPLE OF THE LIE; p 211)
See ya'll on the other side of Chapter 6
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I'm not going to explore this book in too much depth at this point...too much other stuff has been going on in my life, so I just don't feel up to it.
I will say that I found the author's analysis of the miliitary as N's, rather fascinating and quite accurate. I can see how N'ism can enter into the ability to kill another human being in a form of war and battle. It makes a lot of sense to me.
I will also say that, Peck's discussion about maintaining our ability to "love our enemies" is definitely a crucial thing in living with and dealing with N's daily in life. If we cease to "love" in the sense of "not hate and want to destroy" the N's, we always maintain our identity as separate from their sickness. That's been a really important thing for me in my marriage, as I realize at some point, I may have to be on my own, and I don't want to have given up ME to N, and have nothing I like or can offer others from myself anymore.
Blessya'll and this will conclude my posts on the book
~Laura