Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: jillebean on August 25, 2007, 11:49:21 AM
-
two weeks ago my n mil threatened to take us to court to sue for grandparents rights. (there's no such thing in iowa)... my husband went to her house to let her know how furious and hurt he was. i stayed in the background which was REALLY hard for me to do. Husband was them thinking she understood that what she did was wrong and was still hinting to me and therapist that the kids would be safe seeing her as long as he was present. i completely disagreed. so yestersay we both went to her house to set up some initial boundaries to be followed if she were to see the kids. all it took was me stating a boundary for her to threaten legal action again. as well, i saw first hand a husband stuck in the middle (literally). we had agreed that if she started to get nasty with either of us that we would take a break and walk outside. when i felt hurt i stood up to go and she pleasded with mu husband (scott) to stand up to me and said "Don't you dare walk away from me, Scott!!!!" It was freaky and surreal. I don't know what to do!!! My husband keeps shutting down and then becoming enraged with me because I don't understand what he feels or struggles with. he looks like he's about to explode! i'm so confused and lost!!! is there anyone out there with similar experiences?
-
Yes, I have dealt with situations similar many times.
This is when you have to stick to your guns and be willing to walk away.
"You will not smoke around my children or I will take them out of your presence." She lights up, you take the kids and go.
"I will not be threatened or blackmailed when it comes to my kids. If you threaten me, then I have to leave until you can speak to me without threats." She threatens. You go.
This is what a boundary is. She keeps crossing it, you keep putting your shield up. It protects you. You must be vigilant and you must follow through. It's like dealing with a 2 year old during a tantrum. You must never give in and give her the lollipop or she will rule you forever.
Dandylife
-
Hi Jillebean,
First, pleased to have you aboard VEXMB. Welcome.
You didn't mention whether you and your husband have received outside counseling on how to approach or resolve this very touchy situation. It sounds like both of you had made a plan on how to try to work out a workable solution with MIL and that approaching it from a sane perspective sent her into an insane tizzy. Employing the help of a professional would be my suggestion. What you're looking at is a very complex family system that had traction before you entered the scene and probably has a few generations of controller/controllee behaviors deeply embedded in it. My sense (I'm not a professional), it's just my sense, is that you saw the manifestation of the dark side of the family system in the scene with your MIL and the charged ensuing mood of your husband. I can see how it would bumfuzzle the hell out of you.
Right now, I think it would be good to concentrate on the 'leave and cleave' part of your marriage, i.e., step back from trying to address the MIL/grandparent situation and draw close to your husband and children. Then once things are a little calmer, search for a therapist that understands the dynamic behind the kind of family system in which you've found yourself.
I think if you continue to post here, it will be a good outlet for you, especially when others respond iwth understanding and loving counsel.
Edit in: Sorry Jillebean, I had not read your former posts. If there's anything useful in the above, great! If not, that's OK too. Wishing you peace.
tt
-
Welcome Jillebean and counseling is a wonderful idea.
Both you and your husband would benefit.
He needs to hear some of what he needs to hear from someone besides you.
-
hello to all who have replie so far. my husband and i have been in therapy together for a few months. i don't know how to be any clearer with anyone on just how abusive mil's behavior is to me and to kids. imo, mil should have zero access to me or kids at this point. thoughts?? am i way off???
-
Jille, hi...I am very sorry. These scenes are scalding.
My advice, not certain of it but will offer it just in case...is to not focus on trying to keep your H happy while you enforce new boundaries with your MIL. I think it would look like this:
You have stated the boundary. You are at her house and she crosses it.
You calmly and quietly and immediately gather the kids and leave the house.
(You don't wait for your husband to "get it" at the same moment...he's processing other stuff and has a lag.)
That's it...does that feel like something you can do?
Hops
-
i'm not sure how to reply to one particular person here, so.... Hopalong, You're advice was an afterthought of mine (24 hrs. later, of course...) and kids were not there because of the nature of our visit. in future i don't see myself going over there because the abusive behavior effects me in very bad ways. I'm from abusive home (emotionally abusive dad) and married two abusers prior to current marriage who, thank my higher power, is not an abuser. i still get stuck with how to protect kids because her behaviors are so covertly messed up and denied. oh yeah, she's also a retired child psychologist and knows the ropes really well. sorry for rambling. so much confusion and anxiety makes me a chatterbox.
-
Hi JBean!
Maybe limit MIL to seeing the kids on an outing where no smoking is allowed (a coffee shop,museum, etc.? Smoking is banned almost everywhare theses days) I wouldn't even tell her that was the plan- just invite her to meet you there- if she says no, fine. Keep track in a calendar of the times that she was invited to join the family. The peace, cohesion, and happiness of your family comes first!
Hugs to you,
Changing
-
jille, I'm HEARIN ya about the mil. I pray that God will intervene in that situation FAST! That has to be AWFUL FOR YOU!!
Hops,
When I read what you wrote about "he's still processing. he has a lag" I had to laugh and yet that describes my NH PERFECTLY!
When I've tried to talk to him about important things, he will just sort of lay there, staring out into space. When I say his name a few times "ROLAND! ROLAND! ROLAND!" he will finally really sluggggggggggggishly say "i'm thinking."
Another thing, when I finally get to a point that I'm yelling at him about what a bum he is, how he let himself go and I no longer find him physically attractive, his response is to just lay there with this stupid GRIN on his face...a TOOTHLESS one (literally), saying NOTHING! It's like he finds my getting angry, so entertaining, and just sits there, staring at me stupidly, smirking as though I'm not even upset about anything, or like he doesn't care that I am. At that point, I come to a point of almost HATING HIM!
Jille, I'm not trying to invade your thread here. Your situation really stirred up something in me, so I wanted to comment and let you know that I'm living it too, but in MARRIAGE, rather than mil. The other N in my family situation, is my N bil. That's another story altogether!
Does anyone else experience what I just described? The stupid grin while you are yelling out of frustration, trying to get N to understand how his idiocy affects you? The dazed, dissociated stares, the comments of "what are you getting so UPSET about? Look at how CALM I AM. DO you see ME yelling like that?"
~Laura
-
Hi! I am in Iowa as well. Luckily my Mom is not that bad. The only thing she doesnt get is how to relate to my special needs child and the little girl doesnt like her! She also offends my kids but that is her way. Keep up the boundaries-maybe the lady will get it but do not hold your breath.
-
laura,
you did not offend in any way. in fact, you described to a tea what mil looked like when my husband and i tried the boundaries thing. i tried to tell my husband that she was actually smiling at me when he was talking, but he didn't get it. in fact, my husband gets a fairly "dead in the eyes" look in cases where mil's behaviors towards me are concerned. he gets defensive and really pissed sometimes if i talk about mil's dysfunctional behaviors towards the kids and he looks like a confused child if i say his mom''s disrespect for him is really hard for me to watch silently.
jille
-
Hi,
I've seen some little "inappropriate smiles" on the faces of my children, during their teen years, and always been mystified.
They're different from the gloating, triumphant smirk of npd that I remember from ex... almost seeming absent-minded.
Anyhow, I've often wondered about this and was just doing a bit of reading.. and although it doesn't explain much, this bit interested me:
Long-term recording of activity of the zygomatic muscle the most important mimic muscle involved in smiling, was performed in 22 disorganized type schizophrenic patients with inappropriate smiles and 15 normal subjects intwo separate experiments. During inappropriate smiles, the zygomatic muscle exhibited waxing and waning bursts of activity with an amplitude of 75 to 120 pV, which could not be distinguished from the activity observed during usual smiling in normal subjects. However, the duration of such activity tended to be longer when compared to that in usual smiling by normal subjects as well as by schizophrenic patients. In contrast to usual smiles, inappropriate smiles decreased with personal contact. When asked about their thoughts during smiling shortly after inappropriate smiles, more patients reported that they thought of nothing at all or something not necessarily pleasant rather than something pleasant that would be expected to induce smiling. from http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14806847 (http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14806847)
Sometimes, this smiling has seemed involuntary... and very odd.
Jillebean, I'm sorry you are having so much difficulty... wishing you the best.
Hope
-
Hope
Thanks for the info on inappropriate smiling.
The smirk on H's face is almost a mocking, sarcastic, or cycnical one, as if to say "look at you, you FOOL, how you are ranting and raving at me, while I just sit here all calm and collected."
I really have to fight my own rage feelings when I see it, cause it's like "don't you CARE that you upset me? You just sit there and smile when I'm dying inside and want to just about shake you out of your shoes!"
I can't overestimate how IRRITATING it is. It takes everything in me to not just throw something at him and wipe the smirk off!
~Laura
-
Welcome Jilly. Cute nick, my Daughter goes by killybean, lol. ;) I have to admire you when it comes to you mil. This is not easy. My late mil was a saint, I was lucky. I did however have a few sils trying to control me, and it has taken years to get them to let up, one still insists on having it her way. Oh well one out of 5 aint bad. Now if my fil would behave, he is a pain in the butt. Very, very controlling with his children, and it isn't getting any better.
The people here have offered you such good advice. All I can say is stick to you guns. Sooner or later she will get the message, or she won't and you will have to just move on. Too bad mil doesn't live out of the state. Please keep up updated, I hope it gets better for you soon. I wish I could help you more. :(
-
on close proximity of N mil: she did live about 10 hours away from us, but moved within 7 miles of us in 2002, then moved about 15 miles from us in 2005 and is now moving within apx 4 miles from us sometime in December. She never lives in the same place for more time than it takes he to redecorate, regardless of wether or not she has sold current home.
i know that she won't change anytime soon if ever. what i'm really stuck on is how to not feel like i'm to blame for my husbands pain and build better boundaries, not walls, with my husband because he can get really distant and angry when i put my foot down about keeping kids away from n mil until i see some semblance of sane, non-abusive behavior from her. I.m sooooo tired of feeling like he's gonna understand how much her actions hurt me. he says he gets it, but his actions say different.
-
You know Jilly.....my husband's family made me feel the same way. Actually I got into with a sil that I work with. I work with 3 out of 5 sils, plus my husband. They use to step on me a lot, but in the last few years it has gotten better. More of a control issue, especially with the oldest one. She causes 95% of the problems in the family business, but of course she doesn't see it. Anyways, when my sil got into with me she said my husband was always getting pulled in the middle. Jilly, I swear.....I have never, ever made my husband feel he had to choose. But I am his wife too, on the other hand....ya know what I am saying here? It nearly broke up our marriage a few times. This is why I think that for the most part, family should not live in the same town.
Things are better cause my husband did start to see things, her nearly lost me. After 20 some years, I was tired of his family controlling me. I hope your husband can see things for what they are too. Like I said, it has gotten better, but not completely, but not as bad as it was. Take care, I hope things get better for you soon. I totally understand.
-
thank you everyone so very much for all of your understanding! my husband has even lied right to my face re: his mom. i just recently got strong enough to say "cut the poo".
out of curiosity, what happened that your husband began to make changes, Tempesta? mine talks a good game, but his actions continue to belie his words. his mom told him 2 days ago that if he left her house with me that she'd give him 6 months to get the kids back to seeing her on a "normal" schedule or she'd contact a lawyer to sue for grandparents' rights. and he still feels stuck on what to do because he doesn't want to be viewed as a "bad son"!!!
it''s soooo hard to watch him suffer, and because i do love him for so many readons I have a really hard time watching him stay stuck. On the other hand, i get really scared that he won't be able to work through this which would mean the demise of our marriage. Good time to let it go, as my late aunt linda used to say... actually, she'd probably say "What the hec is wrong with him?????"
-
Hi Jilly,
I think he needs to be a good husband and father. Right now, it's more important that he be a good husband and father than an obedient son. Particularly because his mother is sowing dissension and stress in his marriage, which also hurts the children. They can't have his calm fatherly attention when he's feeling like a rubber band between you and her. He needs to let go of her end.
He has to make YOU his primary loyalty and his CHILDREN his primary concern.
He needs to decide whether he wants to teach his children that his mother can dominate his NEW primary family.
That said, I don't feel I really know the full background between you and your MIL...but from what you've said so far, I believe she must be put in her place and now and soon. Otherwise, this kind of battle and seesaw can go on for the rest of your children's lives (when they should be having a peaceful childhood with involved and happy parents).
He doesn't have to stab his mother. But he should stand up TO his mother in defense of his wife, imo...
Hopalong
-
Hi Jilliebean,
Is the answer to your dilemna hidden here somewhere?
tt
here are a few suggestions (it's never a one size fits all)
1. regard the N as a young child trying desperately to get there needs met without understanding what those needs are, let alone how to express them in a healthy manner
2. work on your boundaries to identify where there are "holes". i found a DVD seminar called "Deep Inner Game" by Dr. Paul yo be really helpful in understanding boundaries and my personal boundary holes. It's actually a dating seminar for men, but it's applicable to men & women at any stage of relationship or non-relationship because the teachings are about identifying ways to make changes and intentional choices in your own life rather than trying to change someone else. http://www.drpaul.net.
3. The Buddhist philosophies cover A LOT about learning how to let go of your fears, judgements and suffering. Zencast.org has free podcasts and Gil Fronsdal is my favorite speaker so far. also, Pema Chodron has a great way of addressing Narcissistic family members/friends
4. when an N is trying to hook you (assume it's always this way) you can respond with "I'm sorry you feel that way." Try it. the results can be quite amusing!!!!!
5. Remember that your feelings are real and anyone who tries to get you to justify them is playing the Win/Lose game. No one wins and you can get really hurt.
6. If you're in a playful mood and feel safe enough (physically and emotionally) say, "Hey! Don't hassle the hoff!!!"
7. Watch the movie "A Beautiful Mind" and notice how Russell Crowe learns to get better at ignoring the voices in his head that lead him to feel shame , hurt and fear.
8. Ask yourself what drew you to the N in the first place and recognize that they treat anyone who allows them in manipulative, dishonest, cruel ways, and the behaviors come in many forms; some are obvious and some are quite hidden.
9. Don't ever let anyone tell you that you should just suck it up. You know what's OK & not OK for you. Not even your therapist!!!!
10. The 12 steps of AA/NA/CoDa
11. Know that it can take a lot of time and practice to learn to cope with a narcissist and that you deserve to be treated with loving-kindness regardless of your past, present or possible futures.
-
how stellar, Teartracks!!! :D yYour advice is perfect in that it tells me that i should practice what i preach since those words you shared came from my head (obviously not originally....) not long ago when i responded to another member's question. life is cool, n'est-ce pas?
so thank you for showing me that if i really listen, the answers are already inside waiting for my attention.
Also, thanks to my best friend who always shows up at our house with stuff to share, I have copies of the
Deep Inner Game DVD set + a supplemental CD with great boundaries practice scenarios if anyone out there is techie about sharing media.
-
Hi Jilliebean,
Glad the post resonates with you! 8)
tt
-
Jilly....I think what made him start to see things is that he nearly lost me 5 years ago. Like I said, he still is not completely understanding, but it is a lot better then what it use to be. He put work, his friends, and his family first before me and the kids. I love my family too, but he and the kids always came first. Like I said it is better then it use to be.
It is hard to see them suffer like that, but wouldn't it be nice if they seen what you were going through as well? Sue for Grandparent rights? Well they haven't a chance in hell on that one. I think the only way one can do that is if they can prove the children are being neglected, and I don't see that as being the case here. So they can knock themselves out with that one, but it won't happen.
Take care of yourself first. If you don't, you will get sick from the stress and you need to be strong for your children and your hubby. Hang in there hun. God bless.
-
ok - in other words, make choices that benefit all as much as possble. Intentionality!!!!!! Cool Beans!!!!
your words and positive energy have reached me, and I thank you for this...... & ))
-
Your very welcome Jilly. I hope things are going better for you. It takes a while for them to see it sometimes. Take care hun, and good luck. I will be thinkin of ya. *hugs*