Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Certain Hope on August 28, 2007, 07:59:02 PM
-
Okay, I've only dipped a toe into this topic in the past, so here is the beginning of a more formal dive... I mean exploration... into the realm of the Highly Sensitive Person, beginning with what I hope is some useful info. for those of us who have struggled with this. Personally, my goal is to reach a level of acceptance and let the struggle rest.
Pearl S. Buck, (1892-1973), recipient of the Pulitzer Prize in 1932 and of the Nobel Prize in Literature in 1938, said the following about Highly Sensitive People:
"The truly creative mind in any field is no more than this:
A human creature born abnormally, inhumanly sensitive.
To him... a touch is a blow,
a sound is a noise,
a misfortune is a tragedy,
a joy is an ecstasy,
a friend is a lover,
a lover is a god,
and failure is death.
Add to this cruelly delicate organism the overpowering necessity to create, create, create - - - so that without the creating of music or poetry or books or buildings or something of meaning, his very breath is cut off from him. He must create, must pour out creation. By some strange, unknown, inward urgency he is not really alive unless he is creating." -Pearl S. Buck
**********************************************
Excerpt from: http://healing.about.com/od/empathic/a/HSP_hallowes_2.htm (http://healing.about.com/od/empathic/a/HSP_hallowes_2.htm)
"As we have come to know, Highly Sensitive People's systems are very porous, meaning that external stimuli seems to be more directly absorbed into their bodies. (It has been said that it is as if HSP "have no skin" to protect them from these outside stimuli.) Non-HSP generally are less porous and have natural defenses which defuse external stimuli thereby not directly impacting and overloading their nervous systems.
We have also learned that although many Highly Sensitive People are introverts, reserved, quiet or shy, there is a percentage that are high sensation seekers, or extroverts. And, although they seek adventure they also get overloaded and become over stimulated with the same results as the rest of the HSP.
So, if you've ever felt you were all alone in having these overwhelming feelings and the need to seek solitude and sanctuary, we hope you find comfort in knowing that you are not alone, and that you will benefit from some of the suggestions we present here."
*****************************************************
Two tests available here, one with 100 questions and also a link to a brief version with just 20 questions,
both arranged by Thomas Leonard, founder of Coach U and CoachVille.
http://www.coachville.com/tl/supersensitiveperson/selftest2.html (http://www.coachville.com/tl/supersensitiveperson/selftest2.html)
*****************************************************
And finally, another test from Elaine Aron's website
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm (http://www.hsperson.com/pages/test.htm)
That's it for now :)
Hope
P.S. about the tests... at least one of them notes specifically that we shouldn't score ourselves based on how we may have compensated for sensitivities over the years, but rather from more of a baseline, to get a true reading.
-
So how sensitive were you CH?
I'm afraid I came out on the alligator hide end of the scale.
mud
-
So how sensitive were you CH?
I'm afraid I came out on the alligator hide end of the scale.
mud
I dunno yet, Mudski... I'm afraid to take the tests... lol.
No, I took one a few weeks ago and scored really high on the chart, but that was calculating into my responses alot of the adjustments I've made in my own life, to compensate. And seriously, I really am quite reluctant to deal with this, because of the stigma attached in my family to those who don't just buck up and deal with it. Well, I have dealt with it... but maybe not in the best ways. So I'm prayin about it, as far as preparing myself for the results and the right attitude, and will give the tests a go tomorrow when I'm (theoretically) fresh.
Mud, I wondered, would you say that your gator hide is due to being of the male gender or more specific to your individual personality/nurture?
More tomorrow :)
Hope
-
Well, Elaine Aron's test is the simplest and most straightforward, the same one I took several weeks ago, when I wasn't sure whether or not I was in full-disclosure- mode... or more likely, just didn't like the results.... But once again, I checked 26 out of 27 positive responses, so there's no doubt in my mind now.
Also took the Thomas Leonard (Coachville) long-form test; the brief version is not available now - says "coming soon".
Out of 100 questions, I "scored" 80 1/4, with anything above 70 meaning "hsp" - highly sensitive person. I didn't respond affirmatively to any of the questions which suggested that this business of hsp is a "gift", because it feels more like a curse. I've spent a lifetime in shame because it felt like a lack, a weakness, a far less than desireable trait to carry... with all of those negative feelings about myself and my weakness being sponsored & deeply encouraged by most of my family.
Then there was one family member, my aunt (mother's sister) who probably was "hsp", but she manifested these traits in a borderline p.d. manner, spewing them out like acid onto everyone within reach... especially me. I never felt that she was sensitive toward me, but only toward herself... always wanting me to stroll through the thorns with her and wallow in the muck of her bitter resentments. I felt that she was mainly interested in creating a clone of herself, so that she'd have company in her misery.
And then there's my mother, who - were she honest - I believe would score at least as high as I have on these tests.
But she grew up with her sister's borderline-disordered type personality and I am sure she was appalled at the weakness of it. In her pride, she turned to N'ism
to bury her sensitivity... and she trained me to follow suit. That's my theory.
So... I've spent my life hiding away my weaknesses and living in fear of what someone would think of me if they only knew how fragile I am.... isolated and withdrawn, often intimidating people or leaving them with the impression that I'm unfriendly, or a snob.
But I absolutely despised both examples set by my mother and my aunt, and I couldn't sustain the jovial act of my dad, who's only sensitive about people who don't find him amusing :P (I see what that's about now, too... but it's a whole other story.)
And now here I am, finally seeing the source of all this shame... the fact that not only did nobody in my family value my personality, but each in her/his own way set about to systematically destroy it.... me.
They wanted to destroy me because they saw me as weak.
For years it has troubled me that my Grandma (mother's mother) said something to me once, and I can't remember the context. May have been after the birth of one of my first children... just can't recall... but she said, "I didn't know you had it in you."
That one little remark has haunted me, and angered me, for so long. I can kinda imagine how my mother and her sister turned out as they did. I loved my grandma, but I think she must have been quite the iron lady raising her girls... but that legacy stops here.
I'll keep posting to this thread as more info becomes available, in case it may help some others who've felt that being "hsp" has boxed them into something less than an abundant life. First off, I have at least two children for whom this knowledge would have great application, so I'll be sharing this with them.
But for now, this is where my thoughts are... so here's an excerpt from one of Elaine Aron's old newsletters, titled:
Loneliness and Shedding the Protective Persona http://www.hsperson.com/pages/1Aug04.htm (http://www.hsperson.com/pages/1Aug04.htm)
......Let’s start with the role of the “persona” for HSPs.
The Adaptive Power Of A Strong Persona
One way that we HSPs use our sensitivity is to notice what’s expected of us, what others consider normal, what others want--and then do that. We develop an adaptable, adaptive persona. “Persona” is the term Carl Jung used for the part of ourselves that we employ to deal with the collective world, the mask we wear. (Persona was the Greek word for the mask worn by players in a drama.) With it on, we fit in perfectly, even shine. Behind it, we can be ourselves. Sensitive men in most cultures really have to work to develop their persona, one that says, “I’m as much as man as any of you” or at least “I am doing my own thing and I don’t care a bit what you think of me.” But sensitive women have to do it too--to look outgoing, energetic, tough, interested, and not very sensitive, even when they feel otherwise.
I think the persona functions in another way for HSPs. By imitating others’ reactions to life and situations, we “borrow” their less sensitive emotional response. Being HSPs, we are more emotional, even if we have learned to hide it (see Reflections on Research). If we are more emotional, we have to become experts at regulating our emotions--that is, finding ways to keep our emotions from getting out of hand and overwhelming us. One way to do that is to imitate the responses of others, borrowing their calmness or simple lack of reaction to help us regulate our emotions. Animals do this all the time, without bothering with personas. Emotional reactions in social animals are designed to be contagious. When one member notices danger and becomes frightened, or notices food and becomes excited, all the others notice this emotional response and instantly feel it too. Sensitive animals, humans included, are usually the leaders in this regard. Emotional contagion is one of the big advantages of living in a group. And it also works to keep social animals calm. We’re all less anxious when we are around supportive others. And if there’s a noise and if the non-sensitive majority ignore it, we sensitive ones may decide we can too. After all, there’s safety in numbers and in the evaluation of a situation by the majority.
But we humans can also choose to imitate a calm persona, even when no one calm is around. I did it the first time I took my son on an airplane. Prior to that I was a bit afraid of flying. No self-respecting HSP can ignore being in a tin can hurtling at 800 miles an hour, 30,000 feet above the ground, piloted by God-knows-who but certainly not an HSP, while just outside the window the temperature would freeze you if the lack of oxygen did not get you first, forget about the likely explosion and hitting the ground at whatever speed you would hit. But I knew I had to be calm for my son, so I pretended calm. I put on a calm persona. But in pretending, I actually felt it, like the lyrics of the song in The King and I about “Whenever I feel afraid I whistle a happy tune; the happiness in the tune convinces me that I’m not afraid.”
Actually, my fear of flying was put to rest by all the means we have discussed. I also watched flight attendants, who stay calm no matter what, and borrowed their persona. And I thought about how they and the obviously experienced travelers, usually businessmen, had flown thousands of flights and were being calm about this one too. So I was being calmed by emotional contagion. My “herd” saw no problem. Sometimes a herd is a good thing.
Shedding Personas
So a good persona helps us both to fit into a non-HSP world and to control our emotions when we need to. However, there’s a high cost, in that we can be so busy creating and improving on that mask that we identify with it. We have forgotten to pay attention to the one behind the mask, whom we were trying to protect. We don’t even know who that is any more. We still have reactions, feelings, and opinions, but they are muted, sometimes to the point of being unconscious and almost non-existent.
Sooner or later, HSPs realize they have made a pact with the devil, so to speak. They have lost themselves. They have squelched their own reactions for the sake of fitting in or staying calm. When they break free, I call them “liberated HSPs.” And what makes a group of HSPs so exciting for its members is that they gradually realize they can shed their persona, or some of it--the part that adapts to non-HSPs. They don’t have to be ashamed of their emotions. They can be FREE! At least a little.
A group of HSPs can also reduce one particular fear, of being overwhelmed by our own emotions. We receive at least a taste of another way to manage their emotions, by being in the presence of others who understand and will not shame you by asking, “Why must you get so worked up about every little thing?” Or cause guilt by saying “it upsets me to see you so sad.” Instead, the whole group of HSPs will probably say something like, “Yeah, that’s okay, we would react the same way,” and maybe “Here’s how we cope when it gets to be too much.”
Loneliness and HSPs
If we belong to no one at all, how does one cope with it? That depends on the reason for the loneliness. Some HSPs are lonely because they have recently lost the person to whom they were closest, often for many years. Loneliness while grieving such a loss is a very natural state, and does gradually resolve itself as you become closer to others. No one will replace the person who is lost, but other relationships do fill in the gap. That is the probable purpose of grief--it is actually a “social emotion” signaling to others that we feel bad specifically because of a loss, and so others come and fill in as best as they can for the missing companion. So how do you cope? By letting the right others know about your grief and letting them spend time with you. It’s something people generally want to do. It’s instinctive. You would do it for them.
If you are lonely because you have moved, or if you are older and many of your closest friends have passed on, you have to make an extra effort to make new friends because people may not know you need companionship. It’s best to seek out others who also need to make friends--others new to the area or newly bereaved. Or people who understand your need and want to help you. Places of worship are excellent for this. Having a paid counselor for a time can also bridge the gap while you find new friends.
Sometimes when we are lonely, if we look closely, we find that one small change would help a great deal. For example, perhaps you are mainly aware that where you live you are surrounded by strangers. Who would you call on for help? Who could you have a chat with at the spur of the moment, maybe over some sudden, distressing news on the radio. Maybe you can solve this kind of loneliness fairly easily, by simply meeting some of your neighbors. Neighbors generally like it when someone takes the first step. If you enjoy your first chat, have them over for tea or whatever next. No big deal, but enough time to chat. They want to be able to count on you in a crisis, too.
Or perhaps as an HSP you need to rest and be away from people on the weekend, but by the end of it you feel lonely. Then you need to plan something social for every weekend, preferably in the middle of it, so you can recover Sunday night. That may be all you need.
Loneliness That is Harder to Remedy
Other causes of loneliness are more difficult, in a way, since they are often in part the result of the lonely person’s own habitual thinking and behavior. Anything about us that makes it harder for us to meet people and become intimate with them can lead to loneliness.
If you are aware of your own role in your loneliness, and if you realize that you have made a free choice, that could help. For example, most of us who are HSPs are somewhat fussy about who we spend time with. We don’t like phoniness, impulsiveness, or ignorance. So even if we meet many people, we make friends with only a few. And if we prefer not to go out much, we may not be meeting enough to find any suitable friends. Or the suitable ones have already become friends with those who have been more available. Maybe we are even holding out for our ideal close friend. So you can choose. If the loneliness is stronger than the need for a perfect conversation, you can always lower your standards.
But sometimes these high standards are all just an excuse because of deeper fears. Many of us are not meeting people or getting close to them out of a fear rejection, especially rejection by those with whom we would most want to be close. Those who are available and interested in us are almost by our definition not appealing. Fear of rejection is not a good feeling, but how do you get rid of it? First, you have to figure out why you fear rejection. Is it common with you? If so, you have to figure out why you have this pattern and work on that. Is it because you were unpopular and rejected as a child? Was that due to your sensitivity or something else? Whatever made you self-conscious then, is it really still a problem now? And is popularity with everyone really what you want now? Or was the problem more at home, that your parents criticized you or rejected, abandoned, or neglected you. Children generally decide there’s something wrong with them when this happens. That can make it difficult not to fear rejection everywhere.
The most important remedy in the present is to get away from the general fear that everyone will reject you by looking at the specifics. Consider if a rejection or feared rejection might be due to something about the person or situation. Okay, maybe you are right and you will be rejected, but that might only be due to there not being time for the other person to get to know you properly. Or the person is too busy with other friends to make a new friend, no matter who you are. Or maybe he or she is a total snob and not worth your time anyway. Think about the times you have not been rejected, the people who have loved you. Don’t they count? Don’t they know more about you than a stranger?
Again, the important thing is to not expect rejection every where you go, but to get specific about who you can and can’t expect to like you and under what circumstances. Keep thinking about the kind of people who do like you and try to meet more like them. Think about the situations in which you shine, and try to be in them when you meet people.
Is It Really Loneliness?
Sometimes I have found that people feel lonely, especially single persons or those without an immediate family near them, even when they have many loving friends. This requires some careful exploration. Often these lonely ones were traumatized by being left alone too much as children. Those who should have supported them when they needed it most were not there. In this case, they are really being upset in the present by something that has already happened to them in the past and may not be relevant at all now.
It’s amazingly common, this fear of what has already happened that feels like a fear of what is going to happen. For example, as adults we usually do not need people to be as supportive as we needed them to be when we were children. But we may feel lonely because we are afraid that no one will really be there for us when we need them, having had that experience as a child. The fact is, friends always help each other out in a crisis. Even strangers are usually glad to help out. Furthermore, when things are going well, we may not need or even want constant support from friends, people treating us like children. Seeing all of this can sometimes get your loneliness in perspective.
Others are surrounded by friends but still lonely because their friendships are not intimate--they do not involve disclosing deep things about each other and finding that is accepted. Sometimes people lack the skills, but more often they are just afraid to be close. They believe, perhaps quite unconsciously, that if the other really knows them, it’s then that they can expect rejection, betrayal, abandonment. Again, these are fears of things that have already happened. In my books I have written quite a bit about “insecure attachment styles,” which develop in about forty percent of children and persist into adulthood unless we work to change them, which I have also discussed elsewhere. The work is not easy--these kinds of defenses are meant to keep us safe from hurt and so they are difficult to overcome.
Finally, some HSPs tell me they feel lonely only in crowds. Well, yes, we all do. Crowds are full of strangers. But there is that old saying that a stranger is just a friend you have not met yet. If someone near you is alone, speak up and surprise yourself. I know, it sounds just horribly corny. But say hello. The other person is also a social being who needs and likes contact as much as you. And any way you say it, the only cure for loneliness is human contact.
On the other hand, if you don’t need or want to say hello, maybe you aren’t lonely after all. Maybe in the past others have seen you off by yourself and told you that you must be lonely--they would be--even if in fact you had chosen to be alone. Maybe the truth is that you are just being an HSP, taking some down time or protecting yourself from overstimulation, and you are just fine with that.
:)
Hope
-
CH,
Old Mud 'evolved' from salamander to crock - a - gator. That's all! :lol: :P
tt
-
Dear Hope,
You’ve done it again! Gotten the old brain percolating.
I LOVE this thread.
At first, I was nervous to take the test (my Mother called me overly sensitive all my life - didn't want to prove her right! :lol:).
Well - I started with the long one, but didn't complete it. As you said, I found a lot of the questions were bent too far in a positive direction – it just didn’t fit with my experiences. The short one I found easier to take.
As I suspected and as much as I don't want to admit it :::whispering through gritted teeth – shewasrightscored24:::
But then, got to thinking about it, and no she wasn't entirely right. She was right about the sensitive part - but she was not right in attaching a negative to this (calling me high maintenance, overly sensitive, too sensitive, yada, yada).
It is not a good or bad thing - it just is. It is the way I was "built." A lot of peace in that phrase – it just is.
I have 2 daughters with very different temperaments. One is very sensitive the other is a tough little thing. I parent them differently. As I see it, I have no right to ask them to change their intrinsic nature to suit me and my needs. My job is to learn their nature, and help them learn the best way to live life given how they were “built.” It is up to me to parent them according to who they are – not who I am. If that makes any sense? It isn’t always easy, as I have to stretch to meet them from where they are coming from, but it is very worth it.
My parents were forever trying to force me into a mold I didn’t fit – and I think this is one of the key elements to the poor/negative self image I had. I was a hypersensitive child being raised by hyposensitive children (often had the thought that we were oil and water).
Sorry rambling again – but my brain is leaping all over the place on this one! Here was another thought:
Do you think Ns are hyper-hyper-sensitive people who couldn’t handle it and so completely dissociated from their sensitivity by cutting off the empathy and compassion for others and creating a false personality?
Not sure about this, but would seem to explain some of the characteristics of Ns – the enraged response to any sort of criticism no matter how small (be it constructive or not constructive); the ability to read people so well that they can then use what the read to their own advantage;…
Mind still racing :lol:
Peace
-
As I suspected and as much as I don't want to admit it :::whispering through gritted teeth – shewasrightscored24:::
But then, got to thinking about it, and no she wasn't entirely right. She was right about the sensitive part - but she was not right in attaching a negative to this (calling me high maintenance, overly sensitive, too sensitive, yada, yada).
It is not a good or bad thing - it just is. It is the way I was "built." A lot of peace in that phrase – it just is.
I have 2 daughters with very different temperaments. One is very sensitive the other is a tough little thing. I parent them differently. As I see it, I have no right to ask them to change their intrinsic nature to suit me and my needs. My job is to learn their nature, and help them learn the best way to live life given how they were “built.” It is up to me to parent them according to who they are – not who I am. If that makes any sense? It isn’t always easy, as I have to stretch to meet them from where they are coming from, but it is very worth it.
My parents were forever trying to force me into a mold I didn’t fit – and I think this is one of the key elements to the poor/negative self image I had. I was a hypersensitive child being raised by hyposensitive children (often had the thought that we were oil and water).
Sorry rambling again – but my brain is leaping all over the place on this one! Here was another thought:
Do you think Ns are hyper-hyper-sensitive people who couldn’t handle it and so completely dissociated from their sensitivity by cutting off the empathy and compassion for others and creating a false personality?
Not sure about this, but would seem to explain some of the characteristics of Ns – the enraged response to any sort of criticism no matter how small (be it constructive or not constructive); the ability to read people so well that they can then use what the read to their own advantage;…
Mind still racing :lol:
Peace
[/quote]
-
Peace,
I did the shorter test, too, and got 19 out of 25.
Like you, at first I thought 'Oh, bum.'
I had read through Hope's Pearl S Buck quote at the top of this thread and thought 'That's me, that is', but going through those statements in the test and deciding that they *were* applicable to me just rubbed it in, in a negative way.
But then, like you, I reconsidered that.
It wasn't *ME* who said that being sensitive was 'over-sensitive' - that label was applied to me by others. But the negative idea does stick, doesn't it?
The bit that really hit me from the quote was about the need to 'create, create, create'...if I can't do that in some way everyday - designing embroidery, dressmaking, gardening - I feel awful, like I'm not really alive.
Janet
-
Mud, I wondered, would you say that your gator hide is due to being of the male gender or more specific to your individual personality/nurture?
Good question. I think most men who were really honest would probably score higher than me so I suspect it may be a combination of the things you mention.
On the long test I scored 9 1/2, and 4 of that was from the childhood questions where I went through a shy stage during adolescence.
I suspect the test renders mere obliviousness, which I possess in spades, as not being sensitive.
Seems to me there is a simple, one question test that's probably just as acuurate; did you cry when Ol' Yeller died?
Incidentally tt, a mudpuppy is far more advanced than any alligator. My brain approaches twice the size of the crocodillian's walnut.
mud
-
Mud, I wondered, would you say that your gator hide is due to being of the male gender or more specific to your individual personality/nurture?
Good question. I think most men who were really honest would probably score higher than me so I suspect it may be a combination of the things you mention.
On the long test I scored 9 1/2, and 4 of that was from the childhood questions where I went through a shy stage during adolescence.
I suspect the test renders mere obliviousness, which I possess in spades, as not being sensitive.
Seems to me there is a simple, one question test that's probably just as acuurate; did you cry when Ol' Yeller died?
Incidentally tt, a mudpuppy is far more advanced than any alligator. My brain approaches twice the size of the crocodillian's walnut.
mud
:)... thanks, Mud. I kinda have a hunch that males were wired for obliviousness (or is that obliviousity?)
But I also have a hunch that if you saw a woman sad and upset, you wouldn't elbow her in the ribs and insist that she buck up and smile.
There's a big difference between oblivious and insensitive, in my book.
and Dear Peace,
I'm glad if this thread helps :) ... I've been dreading it for some time, but it just seemed to be next on the list of issues to be addressed.
I can imagine how it felt to have your mother label you overly sensitive.
I pretty much labeled myself that way... don't even remember when, but always felt it was a very shameful thing.
Although my mother never said that outright to me, I always knew that she herself was easily
set off by the least little thing, and that it was vital for me to never react, let alone to over-react.
Her requirements were the ones that had to be recognized and provision made.
Come to think of it, my dad was the one always telling me that I needed to grow a thicker skin.
As I recall, he said that alot, I guess because I was so quiet and somber... because I sure don't remember
ever going to him with a concern, as a child, and he never, ever asked me what was wrong, why I was upset or quiet or anything else.
Just "Smile!!!" But I don't think he ever had to convince me that he'd be no help... that was abundantly obvious.
Feels like I need to keep working through this, because it does still seem like a bad thing, to me. I'm having trouble finding a neutral mode about this.
It's most definitely a thing that I've tried to keep covered and hidden throughout my life.
"It just is"... yup, that's a good one :) But I also know that I need to learn more about how to
care for what is, in order to not so overwound and dragged out. So I think that the articles at Elaine Aron's website and
others around the net will be helpful. I hope so.
Oh, and I absolutely agree with what you wrote about parenting our kids according to who they are!
Despite the fact that I had no example to follow, wow... I do feel like I've always enjoyed discovering my kids' natural
inclinations, gifts, and personalities. Sure wish our parents had felt that sort of excitement and anticipation at discovering
who we were, instead of seeing us as extensions of themselves. ((((((Peace))))) that part really stinks.
You wrote: "Do you think Ns are hyper-hyper-sensitive people who couldn’t handle it
and so completely dissociated from their sensitivity by cutting off the empathy and compassion for others and creating a false personality?"
I think it's a possibility, yes... but only a partial explanation.
This has been part of the reason for my dread at exploring this area... and also part of the reasonwhy I really needed to look into it now.
I've been remembering some more about how nervous and tense and easily drained my mother was when I was very young.
Riding in the car, for instance... for seemingly no reason at all, she'd practically slide down onto the floorboard, while dad was driving... as though he'd just had a close call with another vehicle. He's not an awful driver or anything... that's just how she was... very melodramatic, I thought. Or maybe she really was terrified? And if so, where did all that terror go? Into control, by the looks of it.
And she always seemed so drained, exhausted by just about everything. There's alot more to it, but I can see how she maybe put on this N mask and now it's super-glued to her personality. However, her envy and jealousy have been constant factors, I believe, throughout her life... and she certainly isn't a bit sensitive when it comes to recognizing other peoples' needs and trying to make them comfortable.
And here I am... struggled with this all of my life, too... but I just wonder, if I hadn't been so determined to NOT turn into her, and then if I hadn't encountered the crises that've come into my life, if I might not have gone down the same road. That bothers me considerably at the moment.
Hugs,
Hope
-
But I also have a hunch that if you saw a woman sad and upset, you wouldn't elbow her in the ribs and insist that she buck up and smile.
No way!
I'd just figure she was highly sensitive and go make myself a sandwich. 8)
mud
-
I took the short one and got 15.
But as I answered, I kept thinking that when I was younger I would've scored higher.
I think learning something about having a self, though my work's not completed by a long shot, has decreased my reactivity.
(Good thing, too, because it was exhausting suffering so much.)
I wrote once that I used to feel like a naked oyster with no shell, lying on the Interstate, with semi-trailers roaring toward me.
Now I feel more like a mussel, still got a shell but I have hauled it over to the shoulder and I'm sitting in the grass.
Enough with the seafood. Anyway, I DO react strongly to loud noise...always sticking fingers in my ears.
Mud, I don't think it matters how sensitive you are in the moment because in the core of you, you are a deeply honorable person with the intention for serious good. So if you missed a cue now and then, nobody'd care.
I think the insensitive aren't just those who miss cues (that may be inborn), but those who don't care what the cues mean.
Hops
-
Hi CH,
I scored 60 on the 100 question test. I scored highest on the first 20 questions. It was my childhood that was so messed up. I learned a lot of coping skills over the years.
The saddest part of this test was that out of all the people I was in contact with, I can only remember two that recognized my individuality. One beloved teacher and one old maid neighbor. Looking back, I feel sure the old maid yearned for children and probably would have given anything to have me as her child. There was complete disharmony in my FOO. My dad had the capacity to be a very good dad, but was so captivated by the 'milkmaid' beauty, that for the most part, we sibs got lost in the shuffle of trying to make sense of all the manipulation and lies that were nonstop.
Good subject. Good input form you and others.
tt
-
Hi,
Thank you all so much for your contributions here. Exploring this topic creates alot of vulnerability and it sure helps to not be alone in it.
Hops, you wrote that learning something about having a self has decreased your reactivity... and I really would have thought you'd score higher! Well, you know what I mean, I hope.
Oh, I'm looking forward to that! :) It's only been in the past year or so that I've begun to recognize my true self... along with all the ways that had been covered... and only in the past few months that I've traced that self back to the early times, wondering which parts are inborn and which were complicated by nurture (or lack of it).
What is important to me now is... I want this to be about who I genuinely am, and not about working so hard to avoid being like my mother.
This is the truth, I believe:
"I think the insensitive aren't just those who miss cues (that may be inborn), but those who don't care what the cues mean."
What I know is that if my mother had seen my daughter sitting glumly at the table when she was 10 years old, she would not have asked why... she would not have dug for the causes... and the abuse would have continued. I've never thought of it this way before, but it's a fact and cuts to the core of why I find her so despicable. I am so thankful to see this now because it's proof positive that I am not like her. If she's highly sensitive and that's why she put on this mask, then it's surely not the sort of sensitivity being described in this hsp info... it's N-sensitivity. Now I see the difference.
Besee, I realize that I don't know your history... but I know what you mean about what's to do with what & "what can be changed and what needs to be accepted." That's the maze. Mostly I think that the challenge here is to really pay close attention to what's going on within, as unsettling as that can be, and learn to heed the signs. I'm thinking of keeping a sort of stimulation logbook... recording how I feel in the midst of this or that, before and after a particular experience... just for once, making note, instead of trying to keep plowing through it all. I am quite a plower! I was going to say that everything in me resists this sort of self-indulgence, but that's the critical-parent voice again. There is nothing wrong with practicing awareness!! In this case, I can see how it could relieve alot of stress.
I will do some study on this concept of "internalized oppression", because that sure is an apt description of what I feel... thank you!
Your experience in Japan sounds so lovely... my 16 yo daughter has that sort of energetically sensitive essence about her and so I know what you mean! I'm finding her to be a great role model, actually... she grins when I tell her that :) xoxo
Teartracks, I found that portion of the test very sad, too. There was just one teacher who seemed to see my burden... but she had her own struggles with hardness. You were blessed to have two, and yet I know that their efforts and your connection with them was probably far too limited.
I don't know what you mean about your dad being "captivated by the milkmaid beauty", tt. I think it means that he was interested in pursuing young love (from his children?!), but I'm not sure and thought I should say so.
Will try to post another article later today.
Hope
P.S. Mud! Making a sammich would likely be the most prudent choice. Returning to offer the sad lady half would be sweet, tho :)
-
Hi Hope,
I wrote some of this yesterday - and it looks like you came to some of the same conclusions I did since then!! Posting anyway ....
You said:
Although my mother never said that outright to me, I always knew that she herself was easily set off by the least little thing, and that it was vital for me to never react, let alone to over-react. Her requirements were the ones that had to be recognized and provision made.
It was the same in my house, except it was my father. Your mother's behaviour may have been a sign of a highly sensitive person, but I think it was a malignant hypersensitivty - one where she felt pain and lashed out at those around her. May be due to extreme sensitivity, but nonetheless unacceptable behavior IMO.
To me high sensitivity and narcissistic (or self-absorbed) sensitivity are two very different things.
Come to think of it, my dad was the one always telling me that I needed to grow a thicker skin. As I recall, he said that alot, I guess because I was so quiet and somber... because I sure don't remember ever going to him with a concern, as a child, and he never, ever asked me what was wrong, why I was upset or quiet or anything else. Just "Smile!!!" But I don't think he ever had to convince me that he'd be no help... that was abundantly obvious.
I got the “you need to grow a thicker skin too,” and by saying this it seems to me he was negating you. If instead he said to you, honey, you feel things, see things, and hear things, at a deeper level than a lot of people. When they say things like this to you, try to understand that they don’t understand how it makes you feel, because they are different. Would that have made a difference in how you felt about yourself?
Feels like I need to keep working through this, because it does still seem like a bad thing, to me. I'm having trouble finding a neutral mode about this. It's most definitely a thing that I've tried to keep covered and hidden throughout my life.
Yup – that is why I love what you posted. Before you posted this thread I was the same way. I have worked my entire life to minimize this part of me.
I now have a much deeper understanding that it is a physiological difference (I am not histrionic, I am not overly dramatic, I am not too sensitive). I am similar to a lefty living in a predominantly right-handed world.
If you saw a little girl in obvious distress, crying her eyes out, because someone called her a mean name – would you think for one second she should be ashamed of herself because she couldn’t quit crying about it – or her skin wasn’t thicker?
From everything I have read that you posted – I know the answer to this - no way!
I also know that I need to learn more about how to care for what is, in order to not so overwound and dragged out. So I think that the articles at Elaine Aron's website and others around the net will be helpful. I hope so.
This is the other reason I love what you posted. It has already helped me tremendously. Now that I realize I am hardwired differently, I can accept (and not be ashamed) that I can’t stand crowds, loud noises, that I have a lower threshold for pain, for being sensitive, for being unable to function in groups as efficiently as I function one on one. Now that I know that I am hardwired differently, I can remind myself that when someone says something that I find hurtful, it may never have been intended that way in the first place balanced with the knowledge that it may well have been. When a loud noise hurts my ears – it is ok to ask that the volume be turned down or that I remove myself to quiet the inner turmoil. If I need down time to come to grips with overstimulation – I can do this and not feel ashamed of myself for not having a thicker skin. By releasing the shame, and recognizing and accepting this is a part of me, I can adapt and learn to live with it. As lefty’s learn to do, I can learn to live in a world that is predominantly geared to people different than me.
This has been part of the reason for my dread at exploring this area... and also part of the reason why I really needed to look into it now.... but I just wonder, if I hadn't been so determined to NOT turn into her, and then if I hadn't encountered the crises that've come into my life, if I might not have gone down the same road. That bothers me considerably at the moment.
It is what we make out of what we were given that defines us, not what we were born with. Everyone has the potential to be a murderer, everyone. So why isn’t everyone? It is the choices we make. You are not an N because of the choices you made.
Some say that an N is “made” by the age of 5. I may be wrong, but I don’t necessarily agree with this. I find it difficult to think that a 5 year old has the wherewithal to develop a complete “false mask” by that age. I believe that the “seed” may be planted by a very early age, along with a lot of other seeds, but it is environmental influences and the choice we make that determine which seed gets watered and grows to fruition.
Understanding about highly sensitive people does make me feel more compassion for my parents. If it is true that a highly sensitive predisposition contributes to the development of an N, it breaks my heart to think of it. They were once small babies who were in desperate need of love as well. Hops, Janet, Ami, and CB really helped me with this when I first starting posting here.
I had so much compassion for my mother, that in essence I was indirectly giving her permission to continue to hurt me. I used to say to myself that she is injured, and can't help herself, and therefore it is ok. But you know what, it is NOT ok that she continues to hurt me. By the time I came along, the damage was done and I could not fix it for her or for him. I was left with the aftermath. While I understand it and my heart breaks for them, it does not require that I accept the way they treat me. I hope that this makes sense.
The goodness, strength, compassion, gentleness and sensitivity of your spirit shines through your words and in my view, is nothing to be ashamed of. Because of your sensitivity and willingness to share – my life has been enriched, and I am deeply grateful to you (and your sensitivity).
Much love to you,
Peace
-
(((((((((((((Peace)))))))))))))) Thank you so much. I feel like I've just received a gigantic warm hug and I'm so thankful to recognize that the old urge to pull away is gone. Used to be that I'd pour out these feelings and then quickly want to withdraw and create a great distance... it was too frightening to receive acceptance.
Hugs to Besee and CB, too....
Besee, I agree that it would have made an amazing difference to receive some positive feedback about what was a natural reaction to stressors... instead of a directive to just block it out and fake it. All the difference!
CB, all that you wrote is true for me, too... including the learning to relax, to reach a measure of acceptance, in the midst of the clutter and confusion.
I just never saw blaming them as an option, but I did shut down frequently, and then feel weak and inept about that. Coming to peace with this is a major hurdle for me.
Peace...
Your post left me with feelings overflowing! It's like one of the statements I read at Elaine Aron's site, I think... she described HSP's finding it so difficult to communicate joy... as though it's so strong, there's a fear of being unable to fully experience it.
Used to be that I'd pour out these feelings and then quickly want to withdraw and create a great distance... it was too frightening to receive acceptance, too overwhelming.
My husband told me once that he can see the child in me... and I was so taken aback... didn't know whether to feel relieved or offended by that! But he shows me consistently, constantly, that he values and loves my genuine self. Now I know that what he sees is that sensitivity and vulnerability which was locked away in me for so long. Before him, every place I'd try to release this part of me... it's not even part of me, it IS me... well, it brought about manipulation and usury... even from my own adult children, as they'd get to the point of breaking the bonds between us and yet wanting me to continue being the sensitive patsy.
I understand now that what they were battling was an enmeshed relationship with me which compounded their normal young-adult- struggles, but it sure made me want to cancel out any sensitivities in myself which would continue making me a target for being used.
Npd-ex said that one of the things that really sparked his attention toward me was the sweet, calm way in which I'd speak to my children. But this was no compliment... and definitely it wasn't anything close to a sense of appreciation. It was a revelation of his intent to slam me emotionally into walls any time I felt issue with him. FELT issues... I didn't even dare to speak them... but he wouldn't allow me to feel them without taking shots at me.
My oldest daughters have each taken their potshots at my sensitivity as well.
He wanted to be the child in the relationship, to keep drawing out the unconditional love from me, the parent-figure, despite the fact that this sensitivity was the very thing he was bound and determined to destroy.
Oh, I see it so clearly now! It's the envy and hatred... he didn't get what he wanted, when he wanted it, from his mother, so he was determined to annhilate it in me, lest anyone else have access to what I had to offer. In so many ways, my mother has had the same affect... but I don't think she realizes that.
But back to the business at hand...
Peace, you wrote: Some say that an N is “made” by the age of 5. I may be wrong, but I don’t necessarily agree with this. I find it difficult to think that a 5 year old has the wherewithal to develop a complete “false mask” by that age. I believe that the “seed” may be planted by a very early age, along with a lot of other seeds, but it is environmental influences and the choice we make that determine which seed gets watered and grows to fruition.
I absolutely agree. What I believe is that this happens at the "age of accountability"... whether that's 13-14 or possibly younger for some children... at the point when a child has the mental faculties and wiring to fully comprehend the difference between right and wrong.
I do believe that npd doesn't just happen... that it is a deliberate choice to reject all that is good and pure and wholesome, for the sake of a lie. It's that foundational combination of envy and bitterness and pride on which N chooses to build his/her house. From N's perspective, anything good and true and of eternal value is a threat to that construction and must be demolished.
I'm sorry this is so long. It's the only way I know to let a bit more of my feelings out of the box... and to stop turning tail and running the other way.
If I didn't write, I think I'd explode. Maybe that's the creativity which was mentioned in one of the articles here. Not to write and communicate is to me like an inner death.
Oh, and Peace, what you wrote about your feelings for your mom remind me of a quote from Emerson:
"But a compassion for that which is not and cannot be useful and lovely, is degrading and futile."
Those words resonate with me in a way that I can't even describe now... which is probably a good thing, lest I write a book... lol. All I can say is:
Thank you... for giving me a welcoming place to take too many words to say thank you... because I don't know any other way to be... and just maybe that really is okay.
With much love,
Hope
-
Hi CH,
Teartracks, I found that portion of the test very sad, too. There was just one teacher who seemed to see my burden... but she had her own struggles with hardness. You were blessed to have two, and yet I know that their efforts and your connection with them was probably far too limited.
I don't know what you mean about your dad being "captivated by the milkmaid beauty", tt. I think it means that he was interested in pursuing young love (from his children?!), but I'm not sure and thought I should say so.
Yes, CH, the kindness shown by my teacher Mrs. O, and Minnie, the oldmaid, were jewel like moments, imprinted on my heart.
My mom and dad were married when she was sixteen years and one month old. She was everything milkmaid. Honey blonde, big blue eyes, full lips, tall, lush buxom figure. I think my dad was completely enchanted with her. He was blindsided by her looks. He fell for the whole package, which outside of her looks contained mostly manipulation and lies. He had the capacity to be a good dad, but when the veil of enchantment fell over him, he was blinded to the needs of his children. Later in life after we were all grown and out of the house, he got a clue, but it was too late to do much except what he'd always done, live with it.
I'm glad you asked me to clarify. My brain tends to waft off sometimes...well often! :? :lol:
tt
-
This is kind of a hard conversation to join. I feel like I am trying to read and then absorb all you are saying and learning. I think that I have gone through sensitive stages in my life. There have been seasons where I feel very tolerant of the "noisy-ness",if you will, of the world and the people in it. I have also endured seasons where simple conversations with people were traumatic because of my profound woundedness. Kind of like a burn-victim -- the slightest touch hurts!
As I read, I guess I am wondering if the sensitivity is the two edged sword. On one hand it is the thing (or one of them), I think, that has led us to seek truth and light and to walk away from victimhood. It has also allowed love and support and empathy that has blest others. But on the otherhand, it makes us perhaps offended easily by ranges of normalcy in life.
I was encouraged by one of you (can't remember who) that said that they had changed over time and had become less sensitive. Was that you Hops?
I find myself in a very sensitive state. Frankly, I don't want to take the test. Not sure I want to hear the results right now. I just know that I have the goal of being the kind of person that can protect myself without being so intolerant of others and their weakness and intolerant of simple imperfect nature of earthlife.
Guess I am thinking out loud. TT, my mind might be wafting off here too. :)
Poppy
-
I just know that I have the goal of being the kind of person that can protect myself without being so intolerant of others and their weakness and intolerant of simple imperfect nature of earthlife.
Poppyseed,
You've got it all wrong. The highly insensitive are not necessarily intolerant, we are just sublimely unware of the things the highly sensitive notice.
Occasionally we may accidentally stub our toe on a sad and upset woman, but we just give her a piece of our liverwurst and onion on rye and off we go, tolerant but unaware.
mud
-
Mud
Guess i was referring to the highly sensitive side, considering I probably land in that camp. Haven't really thought much about the Insensitive side. Cause I don't really think that profile fits me. Sorry if I didn't understand you.
pop
-
Mud,
I guess I can see what you are saying about intolerant vs not even being aware. Because intolerance implies that you are very aware. Right?? I guess I was referrering to not tolerating sound, or being late, or kids and crayon on the walls, or human frailty. I want to be aware so I can protect myself when I need to from those who would harm me, but tolerant enough of the hardships and bumbles of life and the people in it. Make sense??
pop
-
I also said I think time and learning made me less reactive...if that's less sensitive.
I think in the past I often confused sensitivity with empathy. If I was absolutely quivering with pain over someone else's suffering surely that made me GOOD. In a way, maybe. But in another way, I think I was very distracted by my own nervous system. My "emotional constitution" or whatever it was, made me less effective in the world.
Another thing I have wondered about is whether prematurity had anything to do with it. I was born underweight (oh the irony) and a month early. I used to think now and then that I was "missing a filter."
However we've quivered and however we've taken things, I see how deeply we have learned. So what used to feel like a curse doesn't any more to me...it's my wiring.
Another thought...I'm on several medications, and way less "virbrational". Some might view that as a loss but to me, it's a huge relief.
love to all-a y'all
Hops
-
Poppy,
I guess I can see what you are saying about intolerant vs not even being aware.
Mostly I was just making a dumb joke. I wasn't even aware I might accidentally be making a point.
mud
-
Dear Teartracks,
Thank you for explaining the "milkmaid" effect. That veil of enchantment I do understand... very powerful, although I do believe a person must be willing to be overcome by it. I'm sorry your dad didn't realize sooner... I guess once you kids were all grown and gone, all that manipulation focused more on him directly. That's been the case in my family home, although there's no milkmaid in residence.
Hugs to you.
Dear Poppy,
I understand that this can seem so overwhelming. Did my own share of procrastination in exploring this area, because I didn't feel that I could manage yet another problem area. But the farther I looked back into history, it was clear that this is where it all began... with a simple difference in hard-wiring which is a part of me. I've tried to set it aside all of my life, tried to plow on through it, because it seemed too debilitating to investigate further. Now I don't feel there's any other option but to look it square in the eye... lest some of my coping mechanisms prevent further growth. And now, it doesn't seem so much like "another problem area" as just a fact of life which, when faced openly, can be managed in healthier ways without all the strings attached.
Anyhow, when it's time, if it's time... for you... you'll know. I'm just tired of "plowing" and soooo ready to take a more leisurely stroll through these issues, letting healing take its natural course.
Last night, returning from another band outing after dark, I made note of the fact that it took me awhile to recuperate after exposure to all those blinding headlights on the road. Just noting that, instead of getting frustrated with myself for feeling so :P afterward, helped alot!
So for me, seems it's far less of a "problem" once I'm aware... and mentally, emotionally prepared. Really defuses the situation for me.
CB - - you wrote: And I think that it can encompass both relational things and sensory things. I have a friend who is very sensitive about relational things--she is very sensitive to slights and snubs and also very sensitive to when people need help. I often don't get it when people are snubbing me (she would usually point it out to me if I missed it! ), but I am very sensitive to sensory things. I have a hard time with, for example, the sunlight glinting off of a car or a strong perfume or someone tapping their fingers on the table. By hard time, I mean that I find myself coming unwound inside--much the way someone would if they had an insistent headache that nagged at them. (As a matter of fact, for many years these stimuli would actually produce a headache in me!) Does that make sense?
That's me, too. Lights are the worst... and if they flash rapidly, I'm a goner. Strong scents and too many sounds, too. A bit of background noise, more steady and constant, isn't so bad, but if there are two television sets, two different programs on in the house here, I am driven to distraction. On the other hand, when something has been running for awhile, outside of my conscious awareness... like the frost-free fridge... and it suddenly stops, I feel a deep sense of relaxation and ahhh... what a relief.
And this is so true: "I think that N's tend to blame the person who parked the car in the sun for their sensitivity--where non-N's just realize that they need to sit in a different chair in the restaurant."
Major shift in focus there for N - always finding someone to blame, punish, revile, despise... ahh yes, I know that well.
Hope
-
lol @ Jeep for a nervous system.... :D
(((((((S&S)))))))) thanks for the grins.
My very N'ish mother had one sister who was probably borderline and one brother who was very sensitive and self-destructive.
I don't know which of their parents, my grandparents, was the N, but I suspect my grandfather, who died when I was 6.
By the way, there's an article at Elaine Aron's site about the (non)relationship between Borderline PD and HSP, which I want to post here just for general info, because I struggled for so long trying to deal with my aunt...
CB,
I relate so very much to all you've written here.
Driving at night is my nemesis. Got the special anti-glare coating put on my last pair of eyeglasses, but it's so scratched now that it's approaching nightmare-condition. Really need some new ones.
On my pc monitor, I have to keep the brightness turned down all the way, or else it's painful.
I have been horrified each time I've recognized similarities between my mother and myself in the area of needing quiet and order. Although I've never been a rager (she wasn't, either) I did see myself reacting to my kids as they got older with a lack of humor, and my mother's style of stony silence and disapproving contempt. We repeat what we've witnessed!
CB, I don't know how I would have survived multiple infants/toddlers. My four are 4-5 years apart, each, so I was spared that experience. When they were very little and we lived with their dad, he was so awful about requiring absolute silence during the news (seemed like the news was always on) that I never had the concern of too much ruckus around me... I was too busy trying to keep the peace between him and them.
But they all have talked ... paragraphs... since a very young age (gee, I wonder where they got that) and sometimes I just feel like I can't stand another word. My son, now 11, will come into the kitchen and start one of his longgggg stories while I'm reading a recipe or something and I'll hear myself begin to read aloud... and I think of my mother talking to herself in the kitchen and the comparison makes me nauseous, but I know that I'm not her. She. Whatever. At this point, I just tell him when it's the end of the day and I can't absorb another word... honey, you'll have to save that story for tomorrow. He doesn't take offense.
Here you have written the story of my earlier life:
"The problem is, I think that it still gets internalized. My shame about my high sensitivity was not because someone else shamed me over it as a child, but because I so intensely disliked my mother's high sensitivity and I was then shamed when I recognized it in myself. This played into my X's shaming of me--I could never tell when he was simply giving voice to a real disorder in me, or when he was being an N (although I didnt know the word N at the time). When my first children were small, I handled a lot of my anxiety by being very organized and neat and he made fun of me all the time for it."
My childrens' dad and my in-laws at the time all made fun of me for it.
All the time. And they each took every opportunity to sabotage, to undo my efforts, to make a mockery of whatever they knew was important to me.
One sister in law, in particular, seemed to make this her mission in life.
I remember going over there once after an Easter service at church, daughters all dressed up in their Easter duds, you know... and she sent them out in the mud on an egg hunt, while I was in the kitchen unveiling my contribution to the meal. Oy vey.. most unhappy times.
So for me now, I know I have to make it my priority to stop comparing myself with my mother, to silence that voice which repeatedly wants to remind me of how she would do x,y,z or how she would feel about such and such a circumstance. And I gotta tell you... I look around my home here right now, and I know for a fact that she would find most everything about it distasteful... from the dog asleep on the floor at my feet to the ferret a few feet away in his little rodent-condo, to the lego creations stacked up on the hearth...
and that makes me smile :)
Much love to you... you are not your mom, and neither am I ! 8)
Hope
-
Here's that article I've been meaning to post... in its entirety, because it seems it may disappear from Elaine Aron's website once new articles are added.
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/2May04.htm (http://www.hsperson.com/pages/2May04.htm)
What is the Relationship Between Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and High Sensitivity?
I am asked this question frequently and have heard this disorder equated with sensitivity by some professionals, so it seems to be time to clear this up. It’s an important issue. “Borderline” is a term that strikes a deep nerve for anyone in the health and mental health professions. It means trouble. Get rid of the person if you can. This patient will be impulsive, suicidal, explosive, attached to the point of stalking you, then turn on you the moment you show the slightest flaw, and will be impossible to heal. It is a damning diagnosis to receive, it is difficult to be taken seriously after you receive it, and it is one diagnosis you generally won’t know was given to you. And women, and probably sensitive men, are the one’s who most often receive it. Clearly we HSPs do not want to be equated with this disorder, even if, alas, some of us have it.
The Underlying Cause
Too frequently professionals speak of “a borderline” as if the person and the disorder are synonymous. In part this is because to receive the diagnosis of any personality disorder one must have had it all of their adult life. (You can have the same problems in adolescence, but teenagers considered to be naturally so mixed up that it is unfair to diagnosis them at that age!) And these problems have to be significantly impairing your life. What’s worse, these diagnoses are part of an overall category that includes mental retardation because these are seen as almost untreatable, in that they do not improve with medication alone. Still, to equate a person with this diagnosis, stubborn as the disorder may be, is truly unfair--even more so because lately treatments have improved and after enough years of good psychotherapy, those diagnosed often cease to fit the criteria. These formal criteria, published in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association, can be found online--for example, at http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/borderlinepd.htm.
Besides stigmatizing a person and ignoring the potential for recovery, what makes it triply unfair to equate person and diagnosis is that it makes no mention, as Post Traumatic Stress Disorder does, of the cause. And the cause is never the person’s fault or even purely the fault of genetics. I have never found a person with this diagnosis who did not have a very troubled childhood. Parents of these patients do not like to hear this, but they should understand that the problem may have been subtle and beyond their control. For sensitive children especially, parents fill the essential role of providing emotional regulation at first and teaching it through example and techniques later. If parents happen to have been under so much stress that they could not regulate their own emotions, their child experiences an almost catastrophic sense of everything being out of control and they also do not learn how to regulate their own emotions. More often, or along with this, there was physical or sexual abuse or years of living with serious reasons for chronic fear. Often the problem was a mother who would have been diagnosed with BPD.
Sadly, when children do not receive what they need in childhood, there seems to be something automatic that registers this as “there’s something deeply wrong with me.” Maybe this mechanism was wired into children so that they would be highly motivated to adapt their behavior to whatever the parents needed. Who knows. It certainly leaves scars in adulthood. Persons said to be borderlines are very insecure and desperately need validation and nurturing, not only because of what happened to them, but also because they are so easily reminded of this deep “something wrong” that must be there. Add to that a stigmatizing diagnosis and they are deep in the hole.
An Insidious, Deepening Pattern
The tragedy is that what those with this diagnosis need most, true caring, is what they rarely receive. Even in psychotherapy it is rare, unless the therapist is well trained in treating this condition and also truly likes the patient. The problems simply make the person too difficult to live or work with, must less love. This is not their fault, but of course each time this happens it makes the precise problem so much worse by causing them to feel even less worthy of another’s affection and respect. In fact, what one notices most about those labeled with BPD is that relationships hurt them, over and over. There is a regular pattern to it. Because of their great need for what they never had, they come on strong with people. They fall in love hard. They idealize the other, hoping to finally receive the love and recognition they need. They find it very difficult to regulate or control these emotions so that they do not “leak” out and be noticeable to others. Their overwhelming emotional approach causes the other person to pull back because of this “too muchness.” It feels “off,” weird. “Why is this person telling me all of this? “...giving me this expensive gift?” “...writing a long email in response to my simple question?” Or worse, the other person takes advantage of all of this openness and generosity.
But even if the other person sincerely tries to provide a little or a lot of what is needed, these troubled people will feel so certain of eventually being abandoned that they can never relax into it, or hear caring without distorting it as more or less than what it is. Instead their emotions leap ahead of them and they bring on a crisis through their need to test the other’s caring. Others may say that those with BPD are manipulative, but they rarely get what they want. Or people say they are overly dramatic, but when you can’t regulate your emotions, life really is overly dramatic.
So finally the rebuff or rejection comes. Naturally, after their hopes were raised so high and then dashed so low, they feel either furious or a deep shame and hopelessness. “Something must be terribly wrong with me. This happens every time.” Or, “Something is terribly wrong with the person who did this to me. Something is wrong with the whole world.”
In short, this sense that one is a horrible, unlovable person, this shame, is an unbearable emotion. To deal with it, these individuals are forced to get rid of it in some drastic way. One way to get rid of it is to blame the other person instead, and they may imagine elaborate plots that the person always intended to use them or hurt them, or simply be aware of the efforts someone is making to get out of the relationship, see the dishonesty in it, and be furious. Another way to get rid of these emotions is to kill themselves, take drugs until they are unconscious, cut themselves, or behave in other self-destructive ways that will blot out the awful feeling. Seen in this way, it is an understandable and miserable place to be, and something very difficult to heal.
HSPs And Borderline Disorder
While the impulsivity and rages associated with BPD are far from the behavior of most sensitive persons, there are HSPs who do have this disorder. This is because HSPs are more affected than others by having a troubled childhood. But there are also many non-HSPs who receive this diagnosis. The trait itself and the disorder itself are very, very different. This is a fact as important for HSPs with the diagnosis as it is for HSPs without it. Those with the diagnosis have to keep in mind what might be normal for an HSP among all of their intense thoughts and emotions, and what is not.
Confusion has arisen because of course many times professionals meet HSPs who do also fit the BPD diagnosis. But sometimes mistakes are made, especially because all HSPs tend to be more emotional, and to those professionals who are non-HSPs and less emotional, this can seem abnormal. Since any abnormality that has been present throughout one’s adulthood and has impaired one’s life can be classified as a personality disorder, the next step is only deciding which personality disorder. Since those with BPD are often said to be “hypersensitive” to nonverbal communication, when professionals hear of “high sensitivity” they may think it is the same thing.
Adding to the confusion, some psychiatrists (e.g., Stone, Grotstein) say that “hyper irritability” is typical of BPD and can be either inherent or traumatically induced. If it really is inherent, that might seem to be the same as being an HSP. But I don’t see the evidence for BPD being inherited. They make an analogy to physical systems, arguing that the borderline’s sensitivity leads to a lowered threshold, exaggerated response, and chaotic oscillations. But if this over reactivity is inherited–which, again, I doubt--it does not seem likely to be the same innate trait as we are familiar with, which predominately involves a preference for reflection before action, is found in twenty percent of the population, and has persisted throughout the long course of evolution.
It is true that theoretically, at least, sensitive patients could feel “forced to the wall” sooner than others, becoming hostile or suicidal, simply because emotions can reach these levels more easily in them. But more often sensitive persons assiduously avoid behaving in a way that is risky or that would disturb others. In my own experience, even those with a severe personality disorder produce little of the aggressive or thoughtless behaviors typical of BPD. When they do express anger, rather than raging, they usually became depressed and concerned about the harm they may have done to the relationship. If freed of their shame over what they see as a highly inappropriate response, they can usually begin to reflect on their situation in a constructive way, as one would expect of those who specialize in processing before acting.
In other words, a lowered threshold in a living system can as easily lead to more accurate, orderly responses rather than to chaos. Or as one expert on the disorder, van der Kolk, observed, “Exquisitely sensitive children may interpret normative growth experiences as terrifying. However, our study suggested that shyness and biological vulnerability are not the pre-dominant factors leading people to develop Borderline Personality Disorder; the superimposition of childhood terror upon adult situations is most likely to be the key.”
Upon hearing about BPD, many HSPs think they have it. Well, you do, in the sense that almost everyone has a “borderline part” inside (except those who project it onto others), and HSPs will notice it in themselves even more, I am sure. This part is very needy. It yearns for care and attention, more so if there was not enough of it in our childhood. And if we let that yearning show, and then sense some sign of rejection, real or not, or just feel we were “too much,” we can be plunged into shame and self-loathing. But the difference is that this spiral does not happen often or ruin every relationship. If it seems to you that it is present too much, then psychotherapy with the right person is the only treatment that I know of.
There is another treatment specifically for those diagnosed with BPD, and that is Dialectical Behavior Therapy. It requires at least two years of going to group sessions along with individual therapy. When it is well done, it can be very helpful. But it would not be appropriate unless you truly fit the diagnosis as described in DSM and your life and relationships are going very poorly. Furthermore, individual psychodynamic psychotherapy–again, with the right person--has proven to be just as effective, although sometimes more expensive. And it will help with whatever is the matter, without having to label it.
Why Are We More Vulnerable?
Returning to the subject of HSPs and this condition, let’s just list some of the reasons HSPs are more vulnerable to problems like BPD and major depression when they have had a painful childhood.
HSCs need careful raising. They will not get it in a troubled family.
HSCs particularly need to be sheltered from overstimulation until they can handle it. A troubled family will not provide shelter and an optimal level of stimulation, but provide too much (or even too little) stimulation. This is known to alter the brain’s development. We are still learning how reversible that may be, but probably it can be changed in adulthood more than was thought.
All children, but HSCs in particular, learn to regulate their emotions by sensing how their caregiver does it. In infancy this may be as simple as hearing a loud sound and having mother hold you a little closer, as if to say, “All is well, I’m not worried about that, but I know you might be so I can and will hold you close to me to protect you.” With a little older child, a flinching in response to a similar loud sound might be handled by the mother saying, “That’s just an airplane taking off--nothing to worry about. I wonder where it is going?” As adults, we automatically expect most loud noises to be okay. But if our parents were distressed about almost everything, often things that were not even worthy of a stress reaction, this emotional regulation is not entirely incorporated. HSCs can pick up on the unconscious distress of a parent far better than other children. For example, if a parent has had someone close to them die and has not resolved this grief, the child may sense the parents’ defensive, unresolved attitude, such as “don’t love anyone too much” or “there’s no point to life because it always ends in tragedy” or “hang onto someone you love and never let them out of your sight because terrible things can happen.” Similarly, sexual abuse does not have to be overt when a child senses a parent’s strong, sexually inappropriate thoughts being directed towards him or her.
HSCs recognize and respond to the needs of others with particular intensity. Thus their own needs and development may be put on hold in order to deal with a parent’s problems. And some parents are only too glad to have their sensitive child take care of them emotionally.
I’m sure some of you can add to this list. The point is, do not blame yourself or them, but do understand what happened to you and get the healing you need. This will require a good, long-term relationship with someone. There are no short cuts, as far as I can see, and I have looked for them. Meanwhile, all of you should now be better able to refute the claim that high sensitivity is the same as BPD, while still appreciating that they can coexist. Further, now you know the borderline part of yourself and others, so that you can take better care of it rather than see it spiral into blame or shame.
-
This article by Elaine Aron really hit the spot with these words: "Don't be upset that you're upset."
Helped me to identify the beginnings of some of my own mini-spirals, in which - when I'm extra tired, over-exposed, and just generally out of sorts - I begin to grow more upset about being upset than whatever set the whole thing off in the first place, which is usually the simple fact that I'm over-tired, exposed, and not up to par! weee.... stop the world, I wanna get off :)
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/1Nov04.htm (http://www.hsperson.com/pages/1Nov04.htm)
Coping Corner: “Worry is Faith in the Devil”
Containing Fear the HSP Way
Don’t Be Upset That You Are Upset
First, remember, it upsets us more than others. We can not get rid of the images of those that have happened, even if we avoid TV–our imagination is simply too vivid. Equally troubling is our ability to imagine the multitude of other ways that terrorists could use to hurt, kill, or torture innocent people. People we love. Thus we may feel compelled at first to attend to the follow-up stories about what else might happen, in order to protect ourselves and loved ones. But so often the dangers are presented with too much hysteria and graphic details, and we can do little to prepare for them anyway. So I like having a non-HSP who loves all of this stuff to call me if there is anything I ought to do or any news about a real threat to my area.
Second, because we react so strongly, we find ourselves dealing with fear differently. Often it helps to reduce the grief, fear, and anger that follows an incident by talking to others. But then we find some people are so upset themselves, and fascinated by the details, that they only increase our agitation. Further, too soon (for us) most people adamantly do not want to talk about their fear or grief, or brush their emotions off lightly. Those who do still talk about it are often people with a history of past traumas so that they tend to be overly pessimistic. You end up trying to cheer them up.
Facing The Big Questions
Still, all along we do find a few people saying things that seem intelligent, comforting, or wise. These persons can become our role models as we realize that it may be up to us to deal better with these emotions, not only for ourselves but for others.
Often our coping involves meditation, prayer, and reading whatever puts the situation into a broader or more historical perspective. In particular, with this help, you may find new ways of thinking about the question some HSPs find most troubling: How can there be a God if he or she allows these things to happen? Work on this, and you will find people turning to you for advice on how to view the evil in the world, and to say things that truly seem to help others.
An HSP not only has a natural inclination to foresee dangers, but also an age-old traditional role of finding comfort in spirituality, philosophy, history, the arts, or practices of bodily regulation of emotions. Fear is nothing new to us. We have always had to deal with our greater awareness of what can go wrong. That is part of our strategy and our role in every social group. And we handle it with what we have always done--calling on the very trait that gives us the fear to also help us overcome it. We have had no choice–denial does not work for us.
More Suggestions
Every HSP’s way of facing fears will be unique and is probably already well developed, but here are a few reminders.
* Get to know your various methods of coping with fear and anxiety, and which ones you want to encourage, which ones discourage.
* Take care of your body, which is instinctually feeling the fear and having to cope with it, by meditating regularly to reduce cortisol and other byproducts of stress, finding ways to get enough sleep (an HSP’s sleep is easily interrupted by fear), and eating carefully.
* Be prepared–an important way to ease fears. Do everything that is reasonable to prepare yourself for an avoidable threat and to mend the conditions that create an atmosphere of evil. Check periodically about whether you feel you have done enough, and otherwise stop thinking about prevention or cure.
* Consider the actual odds of the feared thing happening. HSPs are designed to understand risk intuitively.
* Take the largest perspective, again an HSP specialty–for example, view the threat in terms of terms of history, which you are largely powerless to change and can only witness; in the light of the fears other humans have faced, passed and present; or as an opportunity to test and strengthen your beliefs and inner peace.
* Summon your courageous self–for example, can you decide that are willing to join those in the past who have died in the struggle for human freedom (during revolutions, World War II, etc.)? We HSPs, as “priestly advisors,” must and can role model how to deal with fear. And you will actually feel less afraid when you are in that role.
* Do not confuse arousal with fear–they feel similar, but arousal simply means you are being highly stimulated by a situation.
* Remember that as an HSP you are great in crises. You have already considered everything that might happen and would need to be done. You have already imagined and grieved the worst. You are ready for action.
-
CH, what she is advocating here is 'defensive pessimism', which is about the only coping mechanism I know of that's anywhere close to being in touch with reality.
Thanks for an inspiring [and validating, at a time when I needed validation] post.
-
Hi Stormchild,
I would like to say that I'm glad to see you on the board, and if you would like to say more about your needing validation at this time, I'm sure there are others, as well, who would be glad to listen.
Also, glad to see further blogs- I just recently checked again.
cats paw
-
http://ezinearticles.com/?The-GIFT-of-Being-Upset&id=708493 (http://ezinearticles.com/?The-GIFT-of-Being-Upset&id=708493)
I appreciated the simple clarity of this little article and its lack of psycho-terms and...
the title tickled me... The GIFT of Being Upset Ah yes, a precocious gift indeed :)
Lots of things upset us: traffic, other people’s behavior, our behavior, time pressures, work, family….LIFE! And as an expatriate, we often have the added pressure of cultural misunderstandings, adjustment, and little if any familial support system.
When we are upset, what is really happening and what can we do about it?
What is the gift in being upset?
Being upset about something signals the opportunity to learn more about yourself and your world-view. If you are willing to take an honest look inside and ask yourself some tough questions, you can unleash the power of greater self-awareness and use it to create a better quality of life for yourself.
When we get upset there is usually one of two things going on.
One, there is an underlying value or need that is not being honored in our lives
or two, there is a part of us that we are working so hard to avoid that we see it clearly in other people.
Try on this perspective.
If traffic or time pressures are really stressing you out,
perhaps you have a huge need for freedom in your life that is not being honored.
If you find yourself dreading social outings and feeling crowded even by those you love,
maybe you need more time for yourself.
If you find yourself being really lonely,
perhaps you have a huge need for genuine connection.
When you feel the emotional charge of being upset about outside circumstances,
take a deep breath and ask yourself: “What need or value of mine is being stepped on here?” “What is important about (what’s upsetting me)?” and then, “What is one thing I can do this week to meet that need?”
Secondly, if someone is being rude and obnoxious, maybe that display is bumping up against
a part of you that gets hidden.
It doesn’t mean that you are rude and obnoxious,
but it may mean that you avoid that behavior to a point that it doesn’t serve you.
Maybe there is something to learn from someone who doesn’t care what other’s think of him.
You could ask yourself: “Where in my life do I sacrifice what I want in order to avoid
being seen as rude?” “What is the cost of always being nice?” “What can I do today to honor what I want in my life?”
You can’t control traffic, time, or other people’s behavior but you can control your reaction. Viewing your emotional charge as a gift and an opportunity to learn something important about yourself can significantly shift your awareness and quality of life. Take a deep breath when you feel upset and ask your wise inner-self for more information.
Taking a deep breath and returning to lawn-mower now!
-
Hello Certain Hope,
I've never addressed you on the board before, but I wanted to take this moment to say I appreciate that you take the time to share the articles you find. Did you check out the one about pet peeves? I got a chuckle out of that one.
cats paw
-
Hello Certain Hope,
I've never addressed you on the board before, but I wanted to take this moment to say I appreciate that you take the time to share the articles you find. Did you check out the one about pet peeves? I got a chuckle out of that one.
cats paw
Hello, cats paw :)
It's my pleasure to share... and it helps me to organize my own findings and thoughts. Takes me a long while to see the bigger picture with some of these issues, but in the meanwhile, little bits and pieces become quite clear.
I don't see the article about pet peeves... is it in Elaine Aron's Comfort Zone newsletter? Thanks!
Hope
-
Certain Hope,
It was in the ezinearticles - the other articles listed - I don't remember if it was there on the first or second page or so.
cats paw
-
Certain Hope,
It was in the ezinearticles - the other articles listed - I don't remember if it was there on the first or second page or so.
cats paw
Oh! Thanks so much, cats paw :D It's wonderful... and so true!
Words to live by.. and to live joyfully! : "Remember, what you focus your attention on grows. "
Got my focus so narrowed there... on bein upset at being upset... lol. Didn't even look down the page at other articles.
Here's the link for anyone interested: http://ezinearticles.com/?Find-Happiness---Set-Your-Pet-Peeves-Free&id=652268 (http://ezinearticles.com/?Find-Happiness---Set-Your-Pet-Peeves-Free&id=652268)
Hope
-
Hey Hope,
Glad you enjoyed that one. As I've mentioned to others, I'm very inept with typing and computer skills. I wish I lived closer to Izzy, so I could hire her to tutor and practice with me in 3D! She has been gracious to me, and to others when we've needed technical support. I need to remember that there's shortcuts, and how to use them, so again, thanks for putting in that link because I don't know how to do the link thing.
Maybe one of these days I'll take a class or get one of those Skills for Dummies Made Easy books that are out there. Until then, thanks to those of you who are more competent being tolerant of me.
cats paw
-
cats paw,
Oh, I know... Izzy is a great tutor and I'm so thankful she taught me how to put in the pictures, attachments.
Do you know how to copy and paste from one document into another, cats paw?
The bit I've learned has been purely by trial and error and the kind assistance of generous, patient souls, so if there's anything I can do, will sure try to help!
Hope
-
Well, I'm still needing to explore this topic further and come to terms with some aspects of how this sensitivity affects daily life. This feels very much like floundering, but also very necessary.
For me, a couple of key points... and rather startling revelations.... have come in the area of recognizing what's behind some of my own
seemingly overwhelming feelings.
Even just watching a movie, I know when the violent parts are coming... there's a form of arousal that's most unpleasant. And it's not just physical violence. If I close my eyes or step out of the room for those parts, the damage is still done and it's hard for me to shake it off. It's not the blood and gore, it's the awareness of the intent... whether that intent is toward murder, shaming another, or falsely accusing an innocent party. It hurts.
As noted in Elaine Aron's article about containing fear, I've been working on this:
" Do not confuse arousal with fear–they feel similar, but arousal simply means you are being highly stimulated by a situation."
I'm amazed to find that many people... and situations... about whom and toward which I used to think I held an unreasonable fear - -
well, it's not really fright at all.
It's just that overwhelmingly uncomfortable awareness of so much that lies just beneath the surface... a state of arousal or excitement which has mimicked fear in its capacity to render me paralyzed.
And because it's an awareness which is often not sensed or shared by others, it can leave me feeling very isolated and lonely. So although it's not really forward movement, it's a shift... a good one, I think... to recognize that fear is not the driving force here.
What's fitting into place about this now is that I recognize a similar condition of feeling overwhelmed when it comes to good, positive events and people... happiness, the discovery of a sense of fellowship which rewards such deep longing for personal connection, the joys of success, the beauty of nature in all its colorful liberty, sharing laughter with my child... at moments like that, words fail me, my own senses fail me, I feel like I could burst... and it hurts.
Never before heard anyone describe such a thing, till I began this search. It's come out a few times in discussions here on the board, but it still feels so odd, so... unnatural... I can't describe. As much as I used to go silent when presented with conflict, the same is still true when faced with goodness... so this is something I really want to sort and balance, as it will free up alot of expression, I believe.
Just a brief excerpt from an article titled HSPs and the Problem of Bearing an Unbearable Emotion
http://www.hsperson.com/pages/3Feb06.htm (http://www.hsperson.com/pages/3Feb06.htm)
A Wide Range Of Emotional Tsunamis
Grief, hopelessness, panic, longing, and shame are some of the potentially unbearable emotions, along with rage, guilt, jealousy, and others I’m sure I’m not thinking of. The pain come in waves, the first being the largest of course, but as we process and feel all the implications, it roars in over and over. Only times settles it down, although the waves of feeling can so wear us down that secondary depression, anxiety, or Post Traumatic Stress Disorder may set in (and perhaps need to be treated).
What about unbearable pleasure, closeness, or relief? These happen too. After such an experience, I had a dream of honey pouring out of something and I had only a small container to catch it in, so that it was overflowing everywhere. I knew it referred to an “unbearably” sweet kindness directed towards me by someone I respected. Other examples for me are the perfectness of a moment or scene while traveling or out in nature, or during a truly fantastic performance of music or dance, or while having a fresh realization of how much I love my husband or son. That standing ovation from a thousand people at the Congress of HSPs in Holland was certainly one of those.
I often feel frustrated at such moments that I am unable to feel them enough. Maybe I’m distracted by the stimulation of the details of the situation, or it’s too brief, or I’m too defended against it for some reason, but often it seems as though my nervous system is simply not “big” enough for the goodness it is taking in. The memory is going to be more enjoyable, but bittersweet, in that the moment itself has passed and will never come again. The only exception to this, I find, is the “bliss” of meditation. That I feel I can return to again and again, and while it’s source seems unlimited, I feel equal to it in some sense.
Bittersweetly and so very grateful for this place to share,
Hope
-
It's not the blood and gore, it's the awareness of the intent... whether that intent is toward murder, shaming another, or falsely accusing an innocent party. It hurts.
Hi hope,
The above really resonates with me. Seems like people will do almost anything to avoid it too.
hugs,
bean
Hi, Bean,
I close my eyes alot less, these days... although I will simply change the channel, at times.
Can't change the channel on people who live in your space, though...
I used to attempt it by sulking...
but now I'd prefer to set an ultimatum, as necessary, and get straight to the nitty gritty.
Thanks for the hugs...
Love,
Carolyn