Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Michelle on May 09, 2004, 08:07:12 PM
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Just thought it would be enlightening to share any contact that we have had with our parents today. Also, feel free to share any insight that you have about the messages....from my perspective (a newbie) it would be very helpful and appreciated.
Here's mine:
Haven't spoken to my mom in 3 weeks on Monday. She has sent a couple of emails to my daughter (2.5 years old) which I ignored. She left one message for me on our voicemail, which I also ignored. Today she sent the following email in an e-card:
Michelle, Happy Mothers Day!!! I know you are still mad at me for bothering you so much but someday you will see that it was all out of love for you . Im sorry that Im always bugging you and that you dont have time for me nowdays , I just hope you will one day see that I JUST MISS YOU AND WANT TO BE CLOSE TO YOU AND THE BABIES. I miss you all and hope that you have a good day, thats all. love mama
I responded with an email that simply said, "Thanks for the e-card. Hope you had a nice Mother's Day...Michelle".
Hope you are all having a nice Mother's Day! I am choosing to celebrate all of US rather than them today. Sending you all warm wishes and big hugs...
Michelle
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Just thought it would be enlightening to share any contact that we have had with our parents today. Also, feel free to share any insight that you have about the messages....from my perspective (a newbie) it would be very helpful and appreciated.
Hi Michelle,
I called my mother, same as I have every weekend except for the no contact period from early February until late April. Wished her a happy Mother's Day and asked if she needed any groceries, also as usual. Turns out my sister was going to visit her today and take her to the mall, so I declined her grudging invitation to join them. Why spoil her opportunity to let my sister know how unfeeling and neglectful of her I am. So I got the day to myself AND made her day. :)
I responded with an email that simply said, "Thanks for the e-card. Hope you had a nice Mother's Day...Michelle".
I too had sent a simple Mothers Day card earlier in the week. Just in case I couldn't bring myself to call. I'm trying to deal with her as if we had a normal relationship, and just withdraw when things start to turn bizarre. She did get in a few jabs, but was in a hurry so I was able to just let them fly. Now I have a week to brace for the next contact. :( Still not sure why I put myself through this.
Next?
Singer
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Hi Michelle --
That line "it was all out of love for you" is so familiar!! My mother has used it to justify all kinds of behaviour. Glad to hear you didn't take the bait.
I've been reading all the posts about Mother's Day, and thought I'd add my slightly different experience. My N mother has been disdainful about Mother's Day as long as I can remember -- she treats it as a trite, commercial manipulation of a gullible public. Once or twice when I was young I brought home some card or present we’d made at school for our mothers, and she always received it with such a superior tone I knew I’d done the wrong thing. For a long time I bought her line and was proud she was above it all. Now I think it was a small way she could reject the role of mother – which I think she hated – while making herself feel superior.
I still have to buy Mother’s Day cards for my H’s mother, but I don’t mind it because I know how much she likes getting them. But I only buy ones with messages that are actually true (my H’s mom also had some major problems) – not the long, icky ones that make the mother sound like a combination of Mother Teresa and Mrs. Miniver.
My H phoned his mother today, but we bowed out of his family's Mother's Day barbecue, which consists of all the men watching sports on TV in the basement, and all the women cooking in the kitchen. Some Mother's Day! Fortunately my H loathes it as much as I do.
Guest
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One more thing :)
She has sent a couple of emails to my daughter (2.5 years old) which I ignored.
This is what I found most disturbing. When the N behavior starts to spread to the the next generation. I wish you the best in dealing with guilt inducing attempts to contact your children.
I just hope you will one day see that I JUST MISS YOU AND WANT TO BE CLOSE TO YOU AND THE BABIES.
And so it begins; I hope you can stay firm and not let her turn you into the villain. Good luck to you.
Singer
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So, Here it is post-mother's day. Hope everyone lived through it all and came out the other end without too many feathers ruffled or missing.
Guest Wrote:
That line "it was all out of love for you" is so familiar!! My mother has used it to justify all kinds of behaviour. Glad to hear you didn't take the bait.
SO familiar to me too. Nodding head here. I'm also glad to hear you didn't take the bait, Michelle.
Once or twice when I was young I brought home some card or present we’d made at school for our mothers, and she always received it with such a superior tone I knew I’d done the wrong thing. For a long time I bought her line and was proud she was above it all. Now I think it was a small way she could reject the role of mother – which I think she hated – while making herself feel superior.
Guest, I bet the cards and presents you made at school were really beautiful. I hope your thoughts have lead or are leading you to a place of acceptance and joy - the joy in being YOU.
If anyone listens to Internet Radio, there is a 32 minute interview - in the start up to mother's day - with the author of a book (and its contributors) called, How I Learned To Cook at
http://www.npr.org/rundowns/rundown.php?prgId=5&prgDate=6-May-2004
Scroll down the page and you'll see the title of the book and an audio button next to it and click on that button to hear it.
The author of the collection says, "I definitely became a writer because I was lied to all the time and I was trying to figure out what reality was."
~Dawning
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Hi Singer! Thanks for the reply and insight. I remember you saying your mother is elderly, correct? And you obviously live close to her if you are occasionally taking her groceries. That is hard, Singer. I live on the west coast, my mother lives on the east coast and I still have a hard time drawing boundaries! I can't imagine living closeby. Stay strong! You are doing a great job.
Turns out my sister was going to visit her today and take her to the mall, so I declined her grudging invitation to join them. Why spoil her opportunity to let my sister know how unfeeling and neglectful of her I am. So I got the day to myself AND made her day. :)
Sorry to hear that, but I am glad that you at least got the day to yourself! I hope you did something to celebrate YOU!
I'm trying to deal with her as if we had a normal relationship, and just withdraw when things start to turn bizarre. She did get in a few jabs, but was in a hurry so I was able to just let them fly. Now I have a week to brace for the next contact. :( Still not sure why I put myself through this.
I'm curious....how does she react when you have to withdraw? Does she even notice a difference? How was the time between Feb - April for you when you didn't have any contact?
Thanks again for replying. I am keeping you in my thoughts for strength and acceptance.....these are tough times for all of us!
Michelle[/quote]
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Hi Guest -
That line "it was all out of love for you" is so familiar!! My mother has used it to justify all kinds of behaviour. Glad to hear you didn't take the bait.
Thanks for the affirmation. I am just beginning in this "independent" stance against my mom, so your words mean a lot. Sorry that your mom tries the same "games" as mine - it's pathetic really!
Now I think it was a small way she could reject the role of mother – which I think she hated – while making herself feel superior.
I am sorry for that, but I am glad that you are making headway in seeing the real motivation behind your mom's actions! That is true progress.
My H phoned his mother today, but we bowed out of his family's Mother's Day barbecue, which consists of all the men watching sports on TV in the basement, and all the women cooking in the kitchen. Some Mother's Day! Fortunately my H loathes it as much as I do.
Good for you AND your husband! Your right - who wants to spend "Mother's Day" cooking for everyone???? Not my idea of a 'treat".
I'm glad you posted...it was nice to see your view of things and hear your story.
Michelle
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Hi Dawning -
Thanks for your words of encouragement!
Thanks also for the link - I haven't gotten to it yet but am excited to listen!
Michelle
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This year, after struggling for the several weeks about what to do, I sent my NMom flowers that were delivered on Thursday. Although I have received numerous phone calls and daily letters, I've received no communication with her once the flowers were delivered.
It was different - and I was able to go to a movie without worrying about what to do on that particular day. It is hard though, dealing with public perception of Mom's that come at you from the media, wishing you had the same perspective.
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I wasn't going to write... but this has been brewing, I think...
There is no acknowledged conflict between my mother and I... I do whatever I can to keep the peace.
Here is our mother's day conversation:
Me: "Happy Mother's day! Wish I could be there."
MOM: "your brother's at work.. I am all alone on mother's day"
Me: "You're not alone. You have your mother and mother-in-law"
. . .
Me: "Well, I am looking forward to a visit from you and dad in a few weeks"
MOM: "I know you weren't really looking forward to it at first, but I knew you would eventually be glad for it."
Me: "what? I never said I wasn't looking forward to it."
MOM: "Yes, remember? At first you didn't want us to come... Now, aren't you glad we are coming?"
Me: "what? ... ok.. Well, looking forward to seeing you both!"
(what the hell? Even if I thought that I wouldn't say it out loud, or even elude to it in my voice. I know how sensitive she is! Is she rewriting history or am I losing it?!)
MOM: "and when we come we will make appointments to look at apartment complexes in the area."
Me: "Happy Mother's day!"
(She knows about the problems between H and I, and she suggests that I move out and "date" him for a while. I have even suggested that it may come to something like that, but we were not there yet).
Why does she have to control everything?! In so many conversations she tells all of us what we will be doing. No ammount of protesting will help, because we will all be thankful for it in the end. We will hurt her feelings by saying "no" and then we all give in. To follow is, "now, aren't you glad I..."
I wrote her an email to tell her that I did not want us to look at apartment complexes when they are here. If I need to do that, I will do it.
Now I guiltily think, maybe in the end I will be glad she forced this. But in the end, I really feel the need to do things in my own time, in my own way. With my own independence.
I am starting to understand my voicelessness.
Thanks for letting me vent and think.
Peace, sjkravill
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I did not send any message, in fact I am not in touch with my parents for about a year and I think it is a brave thing to do for me.
What my mom meant to me, She was all whom I trusted and I have done my best to protect her from severe emotional abuse from my dad and even some of his relatives. Infact I come to understand that my birth itself was a blessing in disguise for her as atlast she had someone to relate to. Instead what did she do ? Used me, to protect herself, I was her shield. She would say' would you leave me and go away with your father ? ' and stuff like that and my 'love' for her grew. And how did she reward me for showing her suc hloyalty ? By IGNORING me, because she expected more from me apart from my unconditional trust I showed to her words. She expected me to accept her showing no affection in return, because according to her that too would g oagaint my dads wihes and she would be in trouble ( which is true to some extend though, knowing my dad )
So there I was, I had to protect her by fighting against my father and pretending that I was doing it for my own sake and denying any involvement from mom and learning not to accept any affection in return from her cos that too would put her in trouble. How does she justify her actions ? She prays a lot and would burst into tears on occasions if I merely hint I question her.. by saying ' she always prays for my success.. and did you know how much she would feel hurt if I am not there"
...and me being me.. was taken .. my love for her grew
I wanted to show her the world, to show how good men can be, how not all men are not like dad.
I remember when I was a kid about 5 perhaps? when dad wanted to take me away for a month I think ( on vaccation to his relatives house ) without my mom... and I remember her tears and her words ring in my head even today..' I know I am powerless..now that you are grown up are you going to leave me behind and go with your father... "
And i refused to go away with him. I loved her then. very much. I cried for her and thought how cruel my dad was.
That was me. I took her words as truth UNCONDITIONALLY because I loved her.
Let me tell you an incident that happened recently.. about 5 yrs ago
I used to live with my parents at that time, and things sparked on again when one of my dad's relative ( my cousin infact but she is about 20 yrs older than me ) was about to visit us after a decade atleast. my mom was upset and almost in tears. I asked her why and she told ' this is something i have kept as a secret for years but can't hod on anymore because my memories are coming back and how bad my cousin had treated her when we used to live at her house about 10 yrs ago '... she hinted at stories of abuse yet never gave any details. She also emphasises that she was helpless at that time ' you were very young at that time.. and wont remeber and I didn''t have anyone to tell' etc etc and then asked me to promise not to tell dad that she had told me all those.
next week I threw my cousin out of the house. I felt like a hero. My mom who was there pretended as she was not there at that moment ofcourse ( and later on even tried 'in vain' obviously to stop me from creating such ugly scenes in otherwise a calm and happy house. ( My dad who was also present in the house and reading a newspaper, somehow managed to forget the entire episode and had to be told that night that such an event had occured !! thats another story and I will get to that another time )
I felt like a hero that day. I cried with self pity and reaffirmed my UNCONDITIONAL TRUST and love foe my mom. And what did I get in return ? She spewnt an exrtra half hour in praying.. and she even said ' you were right in what you did but let it go it is history' and everything was hushed up.
Now we don't talk for over a year and I have bee nliving away from her for 4 yrs. I did not even get a single call from her.. or any attempts to contact me.
The romantic fool who is always there to help 'damsels in distress' ?? that bread has not vanished yet.
I am seriously HURT. I feel BETRAYED BEYOND WORDS and the least I could do is IGNORE HER COMPLETELY no matter what so many of the 'close caring relatives thinks'
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I felt so emotionally charged when I made the above post and I am PROUD that I could say the things I said aloud !
Thanks again everyone.
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My mother’s day. A day later. Putting together the pieces. :cry: :cry:
I got another nugget from her. See, I’m from a medical family, and even though my mother never went to medical school, she’s been working in the medical field for years, and she’s so proud of her knowledge – gleaned from her parents and her jobs.
Last night she was bragging to me in the form of telling me a story about impressing her new boss. She one-upped her new boss by knowing the technical term for the condition that makes your eyes squeak when you rub them. It reminded me of another story.
When I was growing up, every time I went outside, I’d start sneezing. It wasn’t allergies – I was tested. {EDIT: And it was just a transitional thing. Only lasted about five minutes at the most.} My mom used to make fun of me about it all the time. As I said in another post, I wanted to be a naturalist at one point in my life. She was embarrassed about it. She told friends she hoped it was a phase. When I sneezed, she said to me, and you want to be a naturalist. You can’t even be outside. :evil:
A few years ago, I was talking with a co-worker, and somehow I found out that not only did he sneeze when he went outside, but his kids did, too. Turns out it’s a reaction to the sun. And climate changes.
So, I ask Mom if she remembers how I used to sneeze and how she used to tease me about it. I tell her that I met a few other people who did the same thing. She said, oh yeah. That’s called blah blah blah (some technical terms). It’s a sinus condition. Makes you sneeze when exposed to climate conditions. :shock: :shock:
And elsewhere I posted that she knew I was in trouble (teachers, school counselors, a child psychiatrist all told her I was in trouble – deeply hurt, even) but she didn't help me or find help for me.
And when I begged her to take me home with her at the end of a field trip with my classmates to NYC – where my dad lived/lives…when I begged her to take me home because he was drinking too much already, and I couldn’t bear another week alone with him, she told me to stay because it would upset him. She left me there. :cry: :cry: :cry:
So…um…the theme of my life?
She knew. She knew that it wasn’t my fault. She knew I had a condition. She knew I was hurt. She knew my father drank too much. She knew he hurt me. She knew I was struggling to lift my head as a baby.
And she did nothing. Well, no. She beat me up anyway, that’s what she did. She sent me to my dad’s anyway. She made fun of my condition anyway. She beat me down for “misbehaving” anyway.
I don’t know how to deal with this. She wasn’t misunderstanding. She wasn’t blinded by her own abuse. She knew. And she was still cruel.
Wildflower
{EDIT: P.S. - Just had a big rage/cry/rage/cry about it. Feeling much better now. And hey...I was able to be incredibly angry with her without having a panic attack! That's progress, right?)
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I read through the posts on this thread (including my own) and feel sad and angry :( :evil: at the pain and suffering we've all gone through. What amazes me over and over is the similarities in everyone's stories -- our mothers' need to control, to feel superior, to ridicule, to whine, to manipulate, to always be right, to use our vulnerability and love for them against us for their own ends, and to never believe for a minute that they are wrong or rude or hurtful or behaving badly. I've read the literature that says their actions are all a desperate cover for a big, echoing void inside that terrifies them, but knowing that doesn't change the ugly, ugly pictures our words have painted. :evil: :evil:
I hereby propose that we inaugurate an Anti-Mothers' Day -- the purpose of it being to celebrate freedom from awful childhoods -- there could be an Anti-Fathers' Day too.
I'm going off to compose some tasteful greeting cards for the occasion.
Also -- I think it's time I started identifying myself -- I'm Guest from up above on the thread, now AKA
Morgan
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Hi SYIT -
It is hard though, dealing with public perception of Mom's that come at you from the media, wishing you had the same perspective.
I agree. When I went to the Hallmark store, I was sad to see that the majority (99%) of cards were mushy, "super" mother cards. None were for the "I wasn't a great mother, but you're still alive aren't you?" mother. :lol:
I applaud you for doing something for yourself on that day! Good for you.
Michelle
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Hi Sjkravill-
There is no acknowledged conflict between my mother and I... I do whatever I can to keep the peace.
What would happen if you confronted your mother on your feelings? Does she have any idea or do you just know that it would be useless to even try? Just curious on that one.
But in the end, I really feel the need to do things in my own time, in my own way. With my own independence.
I am starting to understand my voicelessness.
I am proud of you for beginning to see your need for your own voice! Hooray! I think that was the very beginning of my eyes being opened to how I "needed" things to be for "ME"!!!!! I wish you lots of time to figure out what is best for YOU, not your mother. As we all know here, if we don't take care of ourselves, who will? Sad, but true!
Best,
Michelle
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Hi Spirit -
I did not send any message, in fact I am not in touch with my parents for about a year and I think it is a brave thing to do for me.
I agree with you - that is a very brave thing to do - to take care of YOURSELF!!!!! It is hard to do, but essential to your emotional health!
I am sorry that your mother cannot hear your voice. Your voice is strong, kind, caring and DESERVES to be heard. I hear you, Spirit. We all do. Keep finding your voice and be proud to have it!
Michelle
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Wildflower -
And elsewhere I posted that she knew I was in trouble (teachers, school counselors, a child psychiatrist all told her I was in trouble – deeply hurt, even) but she didn't help me or find help for me.
I am so sorry to hear that. A mother is SUPPOSED to be your caretaker, the one who is MOST concerned about you in the world. That was not the case with your mother and you did not deserve to be treated that way!
I don't know how to deal with that realization either. I handle it pretty much the same way as you do - by being angry as hell about it, then mourning over the loss of my childhood. I guess at this point in the healing process, that's all we can do.
I am proud to be here for you. I am proud of you for being stronger than your mother. I am proud of you for helping yourself to heal. Continue down this road, Wildflower. It is a long and hard one, but I know there must be something beautiful and special waiting just for you at the end!
Michelle
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Hi Morgan - Welcome! It is great to put a name to a voice! :)
I hereby propose that we inaugurate an Anti-Mothers' Day -- the purpose of it being to celebrate freedom from awful childhoods -- there could be an Anti-Fathers' Day too. I'm going off to compose some tasteful greeting cards for the occasion.
GREAT idea! Keep us posted of your greeting cards....I'm sure they will be useful to us all! :)
Michelle
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Post deleted. I asked a question but really it's not my job or responsibility to ask. Progress.
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What would happen if you confronted your mother on your feelings? Does she have any idea or do you just know that it would be useless to even try? Just curious on that one.
Hi Michelle, thank you for being so supportive and encouraging...
You got me thinking...
Does she have any idea? I really don't know what she thinks... She either blows things out of proportion or she thinks everthing is peachy. I
I guess right now I am far enough away physically that I can tolerate her behavior. It doesn't make me too crazy... I guess I have more immediate crazy makers to worry about. But should we ever live in the same town some more serious boundaries might have to be set.
I also don't think confronting the behavior would do anythig but hurt her feelings and bring on more guilt trips. It would not stop the invasion of my space. When I am around her, and I do set boundaries, I just keep repeating myself "I have a right to say 'no'. I am not a terrible daughter."
I guess it's choosing the lesser of the two evils. I can either just try to ignore it (because the distance keeps it from being too invasive)
Or I can hurt her feelings... The feelings of guilt overwhelm me. So, because I have too much on my plate right now, I opt out of facing her on this directly. I may get there some day... but, I am not strong enough for it right now.
Thanks for the thoughts! sjkravill
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sjkravill -
After I reread my question, I hope I wasn't being invasive. I also wanted to clarify that I was not implying that you need to confront her on this issue....Just wanted to make that clear. :wink:
I guess it's choosing the lesser of the two evils. I can either just try to ignore it (because the distance keeps it from being too invasive)
Or I can hurt her feelings... The feelings of guilt overwhelm me. So, because I have too much on my plate right now, I opt out of facing her on this directly. I may get there some day... but, I am not strong enough for it right now.
I feel the same way. Right now, my mother is incapable of "hearing" me. Everything I have tried to say in the past has been turned around on me somehow. Strange, but true.
Thanks for the insight. I am always curious about how people have handled that situation....mostly b/c I haven't been able to do anything about my situation but ignore it and set major boundaries.
Thanks again,
Michelle
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I'm curious....how does she react when you have to withdraw? Does she even notice a difference? How was the time between Feb - April for you when you didn't have any contact?
Thanks again for replying. I am keeping you in my thoughts for strength and acceptance.....these are tough times for all of us!
Michelle
Hi Michelle,
Sorry to take so long to reply; work suddenly got quite busy and I've had to regroup.
The withdrawl period I mentioned from Feb to April came about because my mother and I had an argument and she had hung up on me. Usually I call again in a week or two, or even a day or two, but this time I didn't. She called me once during that period, but her mode of operation is to pretend nothing had happened and I'm finding it increasingly difficult to pretend. I finally called her at my sister's request, but I'm thinking it was a mistake on my part.
I feel like I need the time to get some important things in my life sorted out, but because she is elderly I have a hard time justifying that.
It seems like I've based my actions in the past on a lie. Trying to please when there was never any chance of approval. I have to THINK instead of just going through the same old motions and that's hard for me. I don't usually act, I react, and it's not going to work anymore. As if it ever did.
:(
Mostly I'd just like to find out what happened and that's where everyone's stories and experiences are so helpful. Keep talking, people!!
Thanks,
Singer
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Hi Singer!
Please don't apologize for being busy at work. That is the beauty of this board...we come and go as we please. There are no "expectations". My counselor defined expectation as "planned disappointment" - so true. :wink:
She called me once during that period, but her mode of operation is to pretend nothing had happened and I'm finding it increasingly difficult to pretend.
Does anyone know why N's characteristacally do that? Pretend like nothing happened? It drives me crazy. Is it just a lack of reality?
I feel like I need the time to get some important things in my life sorted out, but because she is elderly I have a hard time justifying that.
I can understand how the elderly thing gives you lots of guilt, but I hope you can continue to try to put yourself first. Even if she were younger, but sick - there are ALWAYS, ALWAYS excuses. My mom's is "you have the only grandkids in the family". It makes me feel so guilty, but for a minute - then it's over. I have to preserve my sanity and that means not having her in my life, right now.
I don't usually act, I react, and it's not going to work anymore. As if it ever did.
:(
Wow, lightbulb for me. I need to stop "reacting" too. I guess they love that.
Thanks for your viewpoints.
Keep stopping by when YOU want to,
Michelle
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She called me once during that period, but her mode of operation is to pretend nothing had happened and I'm finding it increasingly difficult to pretend.
Does anyone know why N's characteristacally do that? Pretend like nothing happened? It drives me crazy. Is it just a lack of reality?
Michelle,
Had to think about that one for awhile. I know my sister welcomes the calm after one of our mother's storms; she's told me so. I think my brother feels the same. They're both just relieved that the rage is over and things will approximate normal...until next time.
But I don't think it's a lack of reality, it's because once the N has vented her anger, the reality changes and if I, uncooperatively, persist in trying to get to the heart of what caused the rage in the first place, then I am the difficult one. It's over when she says it's over. End of story.
I can understand how the elderly thing gives you lots of guilt, but I hope you can continue to try to put yourself first. Even if she were younger, but sick - there are ALWAYS, ALWAYS excuses.
You are SO right that there are ALWAYS reasons why the N comes first. That's the nature of the beast, so to speak. I remember her dress when I was married. I loved her dress. It was red velvet and cost six times the price of my cheap acetate dress. I'm not even sure acetate is considered a fabric anymore, or even if it ever was. Isn't it an ingredient in nail polish? But, the point was, I was too young to be taken seriously, so why bother, and besides she could wear her dress again.
When I was pregnant she was going through menopause which was far more difficult and significant. When I was going through a bitter divorce, well that was my own fault. Who could stand to live with me?
My mom's is "you have the only grandkids in the family". It makes me feel so guilty, but for a minute - then it's over. I have to preserve my sanity and that means not having her in my life, right now.
You're way ahead of me. It's taken me a very long time to realize that preserving my sanity was even an option. And frankly, I'm not sure that it is still an option. :)
Singer
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Hi Michelle,
just a quick note. I want you to know that I don't think you were being invasive at all. Just helping me to think. Thank you for your thoughts, and your supportive messages. They are very appreciated.
For the last day or so, I have been taking a break from journeying in depth here. I am reading a little, but not thinking very hard or engaging as much... just trying for some momentary peace, I guess (#3) ;)
... more later, sjkravill
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Hi Singer -
But I don't think it's a lack of reality, it's because once the N has vented her anger, the reality changes and if I, uncooperatively, persist in trying to get to the heart of what caused the rage in the first place, then I am the difficult one. It's over when she says it's over. End of story.
I have such a hard time understanding that. That is so far from my sense of "reality" in my own life. I can totally see that you are right though...I'm just having a hard time getting my brain around it where my mother is concerned.
So I guess your mother - where she had the better dress, her menopause outweighed your pregnancy, your divorce was insignificant to her - all of those are her trying to "one up" you? How can a mother be that way? It goes against every fiber of motherhood to me. Some days all of this "N-trait-understanding" is so overly overwhelming to me. Today is one of those days. I just see all those examples of your mom (pretty much mirroring my own mother) as selfish, inconsiderate, immature, crap!!!!! I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive her for that. Are you having trouble with that aspect too?
You're way ahead of me. It's taken me a very long time to realize that preserving my sanity was even an option. And frankly, I'm not sure that it is still an option. :)
You could not be farther from the truth in saying that I am ahead of anybody. I have just started this journey. But I have received so so so so so so so so so much bullshit from my mom that if I don't cut her off, I'll go off the deep end. No joke. And referring to sanity, believe me - some days are better than others. This is obviously a not so sane day for me. :wink:
Chat more soon!
michelle
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Hi Sjkravill -
Thanks for the note. I appreciate you allowing me to dig deeper into your situation. If I ever get too deep, just tell me to back off. I promise I won't take offense. :)
Take your time in your journey. I'm not sure about everyone else, but I just visit when I can. I also have to take mental breaks. Things get way overwhelming sometimes.
Chat soon,
Michelle
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You're way ahead of me. It's taken me a very long time to realize that preserving my sanity was even an option. And frankly, I'm not sure that it is still an option. :)
You could not be farther from the truth in saying that I am ahead of anybody. I have just started this journey. But I have received so so so so so so so so so much bullshit from my mom that if I don't cut her off, I'll go off the deep end. No joke. And referring to sanity, believe me - some days are better than others. This is obviously a not so sane day for me. :wink:
Hi Michelle,
That was just awkward on my part. I didn't mean that I thought you were saying you were ahead of anyone. This two-way communication thing is still new to me. :(
I wouldn't recommend going off the deep end, having tried it, (not literally) but I do know about having to cut it off. There were times that it felt as though I didn't really exist unless my mother was willing to put me into words and I counted on her to do that. It didn't turn out so good, and I wouldn't recommend it.
I just see all those examples of your mom (pretty much mirroring my own mother) as selfish, inconsiderate, immature, crap!!!!! I don't know if I will ever be able to forgive her for that. Are you having trouble with that aspect too?
That's been one of the hardest aspects of this for me. I was so angry when I realized that for all intents and purposes, I'd been had. She considers me a fool, and that's because I let her make a fool of me. So, yes, I'm angry. I'm trying to get past the anger and become detached. I think that would be the best I could hope for.
When I feel anger, and especially when I try to tell others about my anger, I feel like I'm becoming just like her. Except smaller and made out of cheap fabric. Not a nice feeling.
Take care, (and I do mean that literally :) )
Singer
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That's been one of the hardest aspects of this for me. I was so angry when I realized that for all intents and purposes, I'd been had. She considers me a fool, and that's because I let her make a fool of me. So, yes, I'm angry. I'm trying to get past the anger and become detached. I think that would be the best I could hope for.
When I feel anger, and especially when I try to tell others about my anger, I feel like I'm becoming just like her. Except smaller and made out of cheap fabric. Not a nice feeling.
Hi Singer, I've been meaning to reply to you for some time. You've said things here and there that have struck some similar chords in me and I can sense the frustration you and Michelle, etc feel. Everybody on the board feels! That frustration. Heh..last night I was chatting with my cousin and heard her opinion that my aunt is frustrated with my frustration among other things. Sheesh, I can't just be frustrated without someone getting offended. :x That is the role I played in my family. Being responsible for everyone's feelings and state-of-mind. I disengaged to some extent (or I would probably be dead or in an asylum) but "they" haven't changed. They still want to win "the game." And I still have the memories and those memories hold alot of anger. I haven't detached from my own anger - and pain. And I don't have a good plan on how to detach from them.
I wouldn't talk to others generally about your anger (frustration, etc.) Talk here. I recently had to draw back from a close friend who thought I was nutso when I brought up my feelings about my mother's rage. I'm trying to find expressions for my anger these days that don't involve cigarettes and beer mainly in artistic pursuits and intellectual challenges. You are not becoming like your mother if you get angry. Angry is a normal feeling. It is the expression that counts. Am I understanding you correctly? Don't let your mother get under your skin with her cheap fabric. I understand those not-nice-feelings too. Distractions to my thoughts help as a short-term solution but in the long-term, no real change in relating is made by distracting oneself. That is why I think this board is so therapeutic. I look forward to hearing more from you.
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Singer,
Please don't think you offended me by the "you are way ahead of me" comment. I understood how you meant that phrase. For my own comfort, I just wanted to explain that I'm not....we are all on a level playing field here. :wink: Hey - just for the record - if you need to vent, i can handle it. I love that about this board...like you - I was never allowed to have negative feelings. Well, I can already tell that there are gonna be some major explosions for me in the future. I can feel a volcano rolling inside waiting to explode and I welcome it. I worried at first about being that open on this board, but now I realize that most of the people will support and help me through it. That's awesome.
There were times that it felt as though I didn't really exist unless my mother was willing to put me into words and I counted on her to do that.
I can really relate to that and it breaks my heart into pieces. We can't count on the one person that we should be able to count on in our lives. Not that we should literally "rely" on her for our existence, but hello??????? Your mother basically forms who you think you are during your growing up years. That's her job as a mother.
I was so angry when I realized that for all intents and purposes, I'd been had. She considers me a fool, and that's because I let her make a fool of me. So, yes, I'm angry. I'm trying to get past the anger and become detached. I think that would be the best I could hope for.
You put that so eloquently and I thank you. It is exactly what I was trying to say! You especially made clear the feelings of "I'd been had". That really hurts.
When I feel anger, and especially when I try to tell others about my anger, I feel like I'm becoming just like her. Except smaller and made out of cheap fabric. Not a nice feeling.
Just from talking to you in this short time, I can tell you: Singer - listen loud and clear - you are not made out of cheap fabric. You are made of 100% hand made Thai silk - the finest silk in the world. (it must be true - it was on the yahoo search ...... ha ha :lol: ).
**Michelle**
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Dawning...
Heh..last night I was chatting with my cousin and heard her opinion that my aunt is frustrated with my frustration among other things. Sheesh, I can't just be frustrated without someone getting offended. :x
Doesn't that just make you feel nuts when things like that happen? I hate that. I hate it when people try to take your "true" feelings away - especially when you have been open enough to share them. I'm happy you haven't let this hold you down!
I haven't detached from my own anger - and pain. And I don't have a good plan on how to detach from them.
Please share if you ever find one - I would love to know about it!
Talk here...Angry is a normal feeling. It is the expression that counts.
I thought that was great advice for all of us. It is hard to finally come to terms that it is ok to be angry when for 30 or however many years it was NOT ok. I also thought someone had a great idea (can't remember who right now) about writing a letter to our N person and posting it here just to get it off our chest. I'm sure we would get a lot of great advice and response too.
Michelle
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Hiya Michelle, I saw your volcano comparison above and wanted to say, yes, let that angry lava pour! And yes again, you can be open here (who am I to say that? :roll: ), it's liberating to let go, I promise. I'm encouraging you, if you need permission (oh boy, there's one of my old issues) to go ahead and write that Letter to your N. Hey I look foward to it! P
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I feel the need to clarify what I mean about detaching from/letting go of my anger. I mean the anger that is held in my memories, some of them going back to the age of 3. Expressing them as memories and not what is happening in the here and now. Giving them a catharsis.
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Thanks for the reply Portia.
Yes, you have tuned in to one of my MAJOR problems.....letting the angry lava pour. I am on the road to "allowing" (yes, your right again - I have permission issues too) myself to feel all that anger. When I finally do write the letter, i will definitely post it here.
Up till now, I have found much comfort in just being encouraging to other people going through the same situation. I guess that is the first step for me in a weird kind of way. Kinda getting my bearings and getting comfortable before I open up and let everyone see all the yuck inside me.
Thanks again, I always get alot from your posts. I admire how you can "let it all hang out" so to speak and hope to slowly get there myself.
Michelle
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OK Portia...now you've got me thinking. So the volcano thing....I am kind of so numb to all of this....how do I let it erupt? And writing the letter? I mean what do I write about? Particular troubling incidents or my hate for her or ...what? It feels so warm and cozy in my safe cocoon here. I know I need to pierce the volcano to get it going but quite honestly that's pretty damn scary stuff.
michelle
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I hereby propose that we inaugurate an Anti-Mothers' Day -- the purpose of it being to celebrate freedom from awful childhoods -- there could be an Anti-Fathers' Day too.
I'm going off to compose some tasteful greeting cards for the occasion.
Morgan, this is the most wonderful idea!
I have been in such a deep depression ever since mother's day. I can't shake it. I can't get out from under it. Anything that can be done to take the focus off this holiday that celebrates parents no matter how horrible they are is a good idea!
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I wouldn't talk to others generally about your anger (frustration, etc.) Talk here. I recently had to draw back from a close friend who thought I was nutso when I brought up my feelings about my mother's rage.
I have found out that it’s best not to try to explain the anger and frustration over an N, even to those who are also dealing with the N. There I was all excited about discovering the explanation for so much formerly unexplainable behavior, and no one wanted to share in the joy of my discovery.
Actually I think my joy was over the realization that maybe I wasn’t really nuts. Oh well, it was exciting to me, at least.
I'm trying to find expressions for my anger these days that don't involve cigarettes and beer mainly in artistic pursuits and intellectual challenges.
Good idea, although I wouldn't mind a beer now and then. Got hopes of being able to reclaim some lost aspects of life too. My mother has been angry with me at various levels of intensity ever since I went away to college many, (many!) years ago. It was like I had been tainted by exposure to the outside world, and then I made it worse by (horrors!) making friends. She much preferred the shy, introverted bookworm who never got into trouble. Very low maintenance and living proof of her skills as a mother.
Once at a retirement dinner for one of my uncles, the host got up and jokingly made a request that my mother please not make mention of any of her children because they were all aware that HER children were far superior to any of THEIR children, and they didn’t need to be reminded. Some joke. :shock:
Singer