Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: axa on September 29, 2007, 12:34:07 PM
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Been thinking about anger and I wonder is it closely connected with powerlessness. In my case I am beginning to think so. When I cannot do something about what hurts me I get so angry and act it out on myself rather than others. I wonder how does one let go of anger. What do you do with the energy of anger that explodes inside of you. I understand that an amount of anger can be healthy it that it keeps us safe but this never ending anger which just stops me from living, what is the point of it.
I have not found a therapist here yet and really would like to do some more work on my anger. It feels like a boiling volcano inside of me and I hate it.
Thoughts?
Axa
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Axa,
I so hear you, my dear! A therapist from my college years gave me a test to measure my anger. He said my numbers were off the chart and that he couldn't believe that I was sitting there so calmly. He said that I had as much anger as kids in juvy. I know that volcano you describe and the intensity of the fire.
I have thought and read a lot about anger. I have a little book that has a few gold nuggets and I will post it to you later after I get home. I think I have decided that I deal best with my anger when I deal with it. What I mean by that is listening to it and then taking self caring action. Reacting to it usually gets me in trouble. So I try to stay away from that.
I think anger is a messenger for other emotions. It throws up the red flag. It is the alarm system of our psyche. You know that already. It tells us that some violation has taken place, be it big or small. I find that when I listen to the message, the "hotness" of my anger lowers. Yes, that hurts! Oh yes, my boundary was violated. Yes, that person did not do what I wanted or needed! I hear and validate myself. I don't spend much time thinking about whether I was right or wrong to feel the anger. That usually traps me in shame and the "shouldn't" list comes to play, and that doesn't do me any good at all.
I think after I hear the message, then I need to take action to protect myself or correct my course somehow. I set a boundary. I end a relationship. I try again. I forgive. Whatever I think will be the healthiest solve of the problem. When I don't do this second step, my anger seems to take root or plant itself on a shelf somewhere in my mind and jump back to fuel the next fire that comes. And then it controls me and my future actions.
Other times, my anger is bigger than me. My tools don't work. Then I give it to God and ask for a change of heart or insight to see truth, even if it means fighting my pride. And I try to obey.
I find that I do best managing it when I listen to it -- hear the correct message and then take responsibility for self care. Then my anger becomes my ally and a very trustworthy tool. Make sense????
I struggle with this all the time. But I am finding progress. The other week, so much anger towards and about my father bubbled up. It just kept coming until I sat still and in the quiet listened to the message. I learned so much!! Now I am not so angry.
Poppy
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poppy
THank you so much for that wonderful and useful reply. I will try and put your advice into action. I think the message for me is that I am angry and I want to control something which is outside of my control. My powerlessness triggers my anger. I must learn to forgive myself for my anger, it is part of me and I need to own it as I own my sense of fun. I do not want to be controlled by this anger which has been happening over the past few days. Taking responsiblity for my own self care is a piece of the puzzle I have been missing. Thank you for alerting me to this.
gratefully,
Axa
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Axa and Poppyseed, it is so amazing for me to read you both describe such powerful anger. Somehow I thought I had the corner on all of that. Axa, I think you hit the nail on the head with your description of powerlessness as the root of, what was for me, rage. Somehow in the past couple of years that rage fell away. It is the only severe problem that I have had that seems to have miraculously vanished. When I say vanished, it is not as though I never get angry but I no longer, ever experience uncontrollable rage. The relief is indescribable.
I know where my anger and my rage came from. Now I am working hard to replace all the negative emotions with positive thoughts and images and it is slowly, ever so slowly beginning a transformation.
Then I give it to God and ask for a change of heart or insight to see truth, even if it means fighting my pride. And I try to obey.
I love this Poppyseed. That makes so much sense to me.
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GS,
Was it God that made your rage fall away? Or was it understanding how powerless you felt and then taking your power? or both?
Pops
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Hi axa
Anger! Ah! What keeps us seething and raises the blood pressure. A couple of months ago I was sure I was sitting on a bottomless pit of anger. I didn't know what to do with it.
Now in other posts you might have read that I "built a fence' and put EVERYONE on the other side, while I am on this side and alone. The person allowed over is welcomed and all is okay and as this went on, I never allowed a toxic person on my side of the fence.
I no longer feel a tad of anger! I cannot believe it!
Now with some people. The toxic person might be just one, a husband, for instance. Get him out of your life and here comes peace and serenity.
I had too many toxic people.
Good Luck
Izzy
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Dear Axa
Its funny; i was thinking about `hate' this week and i came to the same conclusion; that is connected to powerlessness, with me anyway. I think the same would be true of my anger.
X Bella
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Bella,
This is such an insight for me. Translate I cannot control the outcome,wow, never saw it like this before. I think being a fixer not being able to fix really hits me with major frustration and anger. I read somewhere recently about looking at things in a way that does not see things as right or wrong, just accepting this is how thing are. A big challenge. I think my "fixing" is also tied up with arrogance and that is another thing for me to look at. What makes me thing I know the right answer, sounds a bit Nish to be honest. I have made a lot of progress but have such a long way to go also. Guess I should focus on my own failings and tr;y and learn from them.
axa
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I was just reading you, Axa, and all I saw was courage! Courage to face yourself --whatever that might be. Courage to look that powerlessness straight in the eye! I felt strength in your humility and just wanted to tell you that! You have so much good in you!!!!!!
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Bella,
This is such an insight for me. Translate I cannot control the outcome,wow, never saw it like this before. I think being a fixer not being able to fix really hits me with major frustration and anger. I read somewhere recently about looking at things in a way that does not see things as right or wrong, just accepting this is how thing are. A big challenge. I think my "fixing" is also tied up with arrogance and that is another thing for me to look at. What makes me thing I know the right answer, sounds a bit Nish to be honest. I have made a lot of progress but have such a long way to go also. Guess I should focus on my own failings and tr;y and learn from them.
axa
Dear Axa,
What you said here has been exactly the case for me. The only way I can dismiss my anger ( yes, it is frustration with being unable to "fix" everything... including being unable to fix my own anger!!) has been to repent of it.
When any thing/person/feeling/thought (besides the Holy Spirit) is controlling me, then I'm in idolatry. That's how I'm choosing to look at it, because this perspective cuts to the chase for me and really curtails the duration of anger, fear, resentment, whatever it is.
So... repenting of these controlling emotions, for me, is to make a deliberate turn away from them and onto a positive path of love.
I need to acknowledge my own urge to control and release that to God, agreeing with Him to work out what He has worked into me, and keep my hands offa other people's stuff + SOOPH!
Please note tho... whatever we focus on will become magnified... so be sure to count your blessings and the many awesome things about YOU and not just narrow your vision to your failings, okay? That can surely become a trap. I agree with Poppyseed... to me, you are just full of courage and goodness!
With love,
Carolyn
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Love the deliberate turning away and moving to the better things and the can do's.! Thank you Carolyn!
I think this is the place where I don't feel so powerless. Where the anger and rage doesn't have the power to blind me and envelop me. It is hard to stop the controlling behavior. It is so second nature to me. But if I literally look away from it and refuse to give myself that as an option, it helps me. I still stuggle with the stuff I can't change. So, I give it to God. My list to him gets longer everyday. :D Sometimes I imagine a big knowing smile on God's face as I lay my stack of paper on his desk as I walk away and say "I know, theres more!"
I am learning a lot about acceptance and letting go. I don't get what I want all the time, but I do feel more peaceful. Serenity prayer stuff, I guess.
Axa, We don't have to try so hard anymore, you know?
Pops
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Poppy & Carolyn
Thank you so much for your kind words. Turning away from anger and towards love seems to be the answer but I know that I find that so difficult. I am not a religious person so not having the faith you have Carolyn in some ways makes it more difficult. I do say the A.A. prayer regularily though, you know the one about accepting what I cannot change. My experience is by accepting what is part of me without judgement deplets its energy.
I appreciate your input so very very much and value your wisdom,
axa
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Dear Axa,
One of the insights I had about my own anger lately came from Laura's `stages of mourning' thread, where anger was described as a stage of mourning, along with denial, bargaining, sadness, and finally acceptance.
I wonder, then, if perhaps to get to the `acceptance' stage of our powerlessness (in a situation), we have to let ourselves go through the stages of mourning? For example, perhaps it helps to `see' our denial and false hopes, and then experience our sadness as well as just the anger, before we can get to a place of accepting powerlessness?
Anyway, it was interesting to think of it in this way.
X Bella
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Hi Axa .... I don't feel comfortbale offering advice. But, I wanted to say you are not alone. Do you think that maybe anger is an energy? And maybe if we don't know how to generate the positive energy to get what we want our bodies generate an energy to induce some sort of change? And that energy is anger.
Because if you are unhappy and your mind is looking to change the situation. But your mind can't or doesn;t know how to give you the skills to make positive changes. It offers up anger as a way of changing the situation.
Like maybe we might use anger as an action/feeling better than no action/feeling at all. I don't know if I a making sense. I know that my dad was very angry and my mom would ignore me. And sometimes I would graviate toward my angry dad because bad attention felt better than no attention. So maybe your mind is gravitating toward anger. because some action (anger) is better than no action.
I had to add in some smilies. Axa, When you feel :evil: Just remember to :D -- I just wanted a chance to use the smilies.
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I am sorry Axa, I hope you will forgive me for this.....
....but sometimes I listen to comments from you and CB and Lighter. You are say things SO WELL. Sometimes I feel like it is all inside of me in big jumble and when I try to express it, I ruin it. You too, CB and Lighter, have said exactly what I felt. Thank you for saying it so eloquently. I feel like saying, "YEAH! That is what I meant to say." Some day, some day, I will be able to express myself.........grumble grumble
Sorry for the whine with your cheese -- back to you Axa.
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Cb,
THank you for this post. I discount so easily what I have been through and feel a failure over my anger. Today I was so tearful and of course keep pushing it down. I guess the underlying feeling is sadness and loss. I too find it interesting that Xn's D is back in my head. I feel like she just caste me out of her life when she knew how much I cared about her. I guess it is going back to not being seen AGAIN. I never told her how much she hurt me and somehow that feels like unfinished business. I also know that that is something I have to resolve within myself. Telling her how I feel will not make any difference. I think I feel a lot of pain and I want her to feel the pain too........I guess it is about projection.
Yes, there is something about control or lack of it but how do I move on from this. I know I want to control what is outside of me, a waste of time and energy but what is this keeping me away from because I do think when I want to act something out it is because I do not want to own it. I feel stuck right now.
I am so glad you have been on this journey with me CB your hand holding has been so meaningful.
Poppy
I love your contributions. I too identify with much of what you say. I hear and value your posts.
xxx
axa
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This is a wonderful thread.
Axa, not much to offer except that grief does happen in waves over time. And before, most of your grieving focused on the exNbf. Now as time's moved on (as have you), the ex'sD appears near your SON. Yikers! Bottom line, I think her intrusion is allowing you to finish grieving for your loss of her. N or not, she was also someone you loved and lost.
And I think moving away, too, puts the past into relief, and we see it even more vividly for a while, before the present catches us up and we get fully into the new current. Do you think those past attachments could feel more real to you now, just because you are in a new place, a new community, and haven't had time to form new attachments yet?
love to you,
Hops
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Dear Axa,
Been thinking about anger and I wonder is it closely connected with powerlessness. In my case I am beginning to think so. When I cannot do something about what hurts me I get so angry and act it out on myself rather than others. I wonder how does one let go of anger. What do you do with the energy of anger that explodes inside of you. I understand that an amount of anger can be healthy it that it keeps us safe but this never ending anger which just stops me from living, what is the point of it.
I discount so easily what I have been through and feel a failure over my anger. Today I was so tearful and of course keep pushing it down. I guess the underlying feeling is sadness and loss.
Hops posted on another thread that anger is a surface emotion and that there are "source" emotions underlying and manifesting as anger. I also agree with this. As you and others have mentioned, feelings of loss, failure, powerlessness, fear and frustration often manifest as anger.
I'm editing your words here:
"I ..................... feel a failure over my anger."
Axa: why does feeling anger make you feel like a failure? Anger is a natural feeling. You're not a failure for feeling anger. You're human!! If you felt no anger, that wouldn't be good either.
The question, IMO, is how do we feel our anger without it destroying us? What I have done is, as I alluded to above, see what feelings are UNDERLYING the anger (fear, loss, frustration, etc) and deal with THOSE feelings. Once I recognize and acknowledge the underlying feelings, I feel less angry and I feel the underlying feeling. And sometimes, feeling the underlying feelings does not make me feel better, sometimes it makes me feel worse than feeling angry.
I guess, in a way, the anger is protecting us or preventing us from feeling the underlying feeling. Maybe feeling anger is our subconscious way of avoiding feeling (& acknowledging) the underlying feeling, like we'd rather feel angry than feel hurt or afraid.
Hope you feel better.
Love,
sally
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Axa,
I went to bed last night thinking about you. And I woke up this morning thinking about you. I kept wondering what role shame plays in your thinking. Is it wrapped up in your anger too? Does it punish you because you have the feelings of anger, but invalidate the feelings of underneath it too? And the more you work on the feelings the more shame you feel and not knowing the answers or not acting perfectly kind and good? Don't know. You don't have to answer. I was just thinking that I think shame plays a huge role in our abililty to find our correct feelings and listen to the anger and so we find ourselves stuck.
Hugs to Axa.
Poppy
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I LOVE THIS BOARD
Hops,
I think you have hit the nail on the head. It does feel like grief, deep harrowing grief for the losses I have suffered in my life. I think I feel some jealousy that my son has what I have not, sharing with XN's D. I do think she is very Nish but I also know in my heart that I truely loved her so much. I feel as if I could cry an ocean, again. I had such hopes for her in my life. I had such hopes that my loving her would be a core strength she could take with her in her life. I also had hoped that I could share her growing. I also idealised her. Attributed values to her that my own D had and she does not possess because she has been brought up by such an N father. Naming my grief seems to ease it right now.
I walked past Xn's family home today. He has not been there in years as the house has been sold and felt real sadness for him and the abuse he suffered in that house. I felt my anger melting and a sense of connectness with all who have been abused as children. It does not in any way alter my feelings towards him but somehow I felt real compassion for myself and all the voiceless people in this world.
I think you are right about being in a new city bringing so much to the fore again and I know this will pass. Many thanks for this wonderful and freeing insight Hops an extra large hug to you.
Sally,
Thank you also. The underlying feeling is grief and loss, I see this now. I guess my sense of failure around feeling anger is that my Nmother was a raging woman and I swore that I would never be like her. In trying to be the polar opposite to her I have squashed down feelings of anger and see them as negative. I must remember that in the end it was my anger which saved me from Xn. It was my anger which propelled me out of his orbit. I think I do not know that it is ok to be angry and to use that energy to protected myself. I am only learning this. My co-dep has made me swallow my anger and then resent the fact that I was abused. I could not have been treated so badly if I had acted on my anger at the early stages. There is a big lesson here for me.
Poppy,
THank you for thinking of me, makes me feel warm and cared for. And yes, as I said to Sally I do connect anger and shame. I was deeply ashamed of my mother's anger and took on her shame, since she had none. I have such a strong message around civilised people do not get angry....SAYS WHO!!!!!!!!!!! I also think there is huge collusion in society around not expressing anger as if one is less than by doing so. A good kind person does not get angry.........SAYS WHO. This is a message I have internalised so much it is part of my core.
I have always tried to deny my anger and expressing it here has been very cathartic for me. I know that with XN it was only in the end when I lost control of my anger that I did something about the abusive relationship I was in. He! just figured something out. I equate anger with being out of control but it does not have to be that way, I never thought of this before. I can be angry and in control, this is another new insight for me.
Many, many thanks
Axa
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I love being angry and in control. I make some of my best and healthiest decisions that way. 8)
Hugs to Axa.
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Dear Axa,
I listen with great interest and caring to your posts. Always straight from the heart and struggling toward the light. I wish for you more compassion for yourself. The anger may be huge and no wonder! You have been raked through the coals. Yell, Scream, throw self in ocean, tear up towels boy are you ever entitled to that anger. Somehow. although the power of the anger is overwhelming at times, I think it pushes you forward, just as sorrow and grief do. We don't grow much in the happy, carefree times. This dark night of the soul is the crucible of change. Layer after layer of denial and false hope is falling away. You are pulling out the tendrils of control that all the Ns had wound around your heart and soul
I have found this to be very hard work. I think I even carried my exNs anger and have to let that go to. Eventually, I think you have a pure heart and this is all for something better. Lord knows, you won't be enthralled by the next silver-tongued devil you meet.
I am so sorry for your losses. I am glad that you loved your stepdaughter and so sorry that she doesn't understand much about love.
As for anger. It can seem as big as a house and as insurmountable as Mt. Everest. Personally, I don't like it. I feel like a loser creepoid when I am in the grip of my anger. It has caused a lot of damage. I notice as i learn to love myself for the first time in my life, that I don't feel so cut to the quick by other people. The desperation for justice and approval is lessening because it is being replaced by other things. I do a lot of meditation now and it helps to keep me centred and not obsessing like a wild monkey about the past. In a way it is like getting religion. Someone said that praying is talking to God, and meditation is listening to God. And god is just some power that is greater than me. IT is Nature, the wind in the trees and the river rushing and the sound of the woodpecker.
You are loved Axa.
Sea storm
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I don't know if this is helpful....but I will add it anyway. It is entry Jan. 14 in my Melody Beattie book, " The Language of Letting Go."
ACCEPTING ANGER
Anger is one of the many profoundd effects life has on us. It's one of our emotions. And we're going to feel it when it comes our way -- or else repress it.
If I was working a good program, I wouldn't get angry....If I was a good Christian, I wouldn't feel angry....If I was really using my affirmations about how happy I am, I wouldn't be angry......Those are old messages that seduce us into not feeling again. Anger is part of life. We need not to dwell in it or seek it out, but we can't afford to ignore it.
In recovery, we learn we can shamelessly feel all of our emotions, including anger, and still take responsibility for what we do when we are angry. We don't have to let anger control us, but is surely will if we prevent ourselves from feeling it.
Being grateful, being positive, being healthy, does not mean we will never feel angry. Being grateful, postitive, and healthy means we feel angry when we need to.
Today I will let myself be angry, if I need to. i can feel and release my emotions, including anger constructively. I will be grateful for my anger and the things it is trying to show me. I can fell and accept all my emotions without shame, and take responsibility for my actions.
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Just one more on anger........July 18
TIME TO GET ANGRY
It's about time you got angry -- yes, that angry!
Anger can be such a potent, and frightening emotion. It can also be a feeling the guides us to important decisions, sometimes decisions difficult to make. It c an signal other people's problems, our problems, or simply problems we need to address.
We deny our anger for a variety of reasons. We don't give ourselves permission to allow it to come into our awareness -- at first. Understand that it does not go away. It sits in layers under the surface, waiting for us to be ready, safe, and strong enough to deal with it.
What we may do instead of facing our anger and what it is telling us about self care, is feel hurt, victimized, trapped, guilty, and uncertain about how to take care of ourselves. We may withdraw, deny, make excuses, and hide our heads in the sand -- for a while.
We may punish, get even, whine, and wonder.
We may repeatedly forgive the other person for behaviors that hurt us. We may be afraid that someone will go away if we deal with our anger toward him or her. We may be afraid we will need to go away, if we deal with our anger.
We may simply be afraid of our anger and the potency of it. We may not know we have a right, even a responsibility -- to ourselves -- to allow ourselves to feel and learn from our anger.
God, help my hidden or repressed angry feelings to surface. Help me have the courage to face them. Help me understand how I need to take care of myself with the people I feel anger toward. Help me stop telling myself something is wrong with me when people victimize me and I feel angry about the victimization. I can trust my feelings to signal problems that need my attention.
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Dear Poppyseed, Those excerpts are awesome... thank you for sharing them here! I'm checking to see whether I can get that book from the library.
Dear Axa, This thread has really benefitted me... especially through the realization of the shame attached to my angry feelings. Thank you for sharing all that you do here and please know that I'm cheering you on as you run this race.
Hugs,
Carolyn
P.S. on edit... Yes, they do have the book (The Language of Letting Go), along with many others by her which sound very good. I put in my request!
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You are loved Axa.
Sea storm
Oh, Sea.....I've missed you so much! Good to see you here again, even if only for a moment.
Love
CB
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Hope,
This book has really been a life saver for my H and I. It is so simple ..... a little snippit of wisdom everyday. I go here whenever I feel distressed and index my stress of the day and then get a little pep talk from Melodie. I hope you enjoy!
Poppy
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Seastorm,
GREAT to hear from you. How are you doing. I have not been reading all the threads but it seems like an age since I read anything from you. I know things have been difficult for you and am pleased to see you back here. THank you for acknkowledging my losses, there have been so many. Really working through my anger, with the help of my friends here, has helped me embrace it rather than try and rid myself of it. It has been such a revelation to me to see it as a positive thing and a part of me alerting myself to what is going on. I am doing a little meditation, in fact I will do some having written this post, and believe it also will help me with my anger. I am so pleased not to be afraid of that alerting anger any longer.
Poppy,
What has struck me also on this thread is how judgemental we are and how hard we are on ourselves, well me anyway. Lots of shoulds/should nots instead of knowing that we are angry and that is a singal that something important needs attention. Can't believe I missed this one. The piece about meeting our anger may cause us to move away from someone is exactly what was going on for me.
Really appreciate you posting this stuff Poppy been very very helpful.
axa
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Anger is a clarifying wholly necessary emotion.
We can't appreciate the good/positive emotions, without the existence of perceived negative emotions.
Anger helps individuate us..... (I think I may have made that word up, lol)
gives us energy to free ourselves or make changes necessary for our growth and safety.
Anger is as valid an emotion as sadness, happiness or confusion.
Confusion sucks.....
so does guilt, come to think of it :?
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I am learning that I don't need my anger as much as I used to. I don't feel the volumes of it. I think it is because I am starting to feeling more powerful in my life. I am starting to take responsibility and giving myself permission to make the necessary self care decisions in my life. I think I have felt like a prisoner because I didn't feel allowed to protect myself. ANGER. Now I know that I can make good....even really good choices for myself. And when I do....meet my needs....my anger seems to fade back down to size. That feels really good. Maybe it is a letting go or maybe it is just finding the right cure to the problem. I guess I just wanted to say that it feels good to know that the trick isn't in NOT having bad emotions, but in treating all emotions in healthy ways. That feels powerful and centered and balanced to me.
If only I had this much success with my shame........hmmm grumble, grumble, smile!
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Poppy,
Smart, sensible post. I too realise that when I take care of myself I have a lot less anger. Also, when I am taking care of myself I am focused on the present and not revisiting the past and I know that the pattern of revisiting in an unhealthy way is what keeps me stuck. Very uplifting post. About "shame" would you like to post more on this thread about that. I have been thinking about that a lot lately and would welcome your thoughts
axa
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I don't usually feel anger... but last night I did. It didn't last long, but it was strange... to be so conscious of it.
I was so determined to not let it get stuffed away or morphed into a different form...
but this time I had to choose to let it go.
Poppyseed, what you've written here is the same for me, I think. It was possible to make that choice to release the anger because I have taken some solid, positive steps toward caring for myself in very practical terms. This time, I didn't try to make it go away because it isn't "nice"... or "right"... but more because it doesn't fit. It's like an accessory which doesn't match my new outfit?
Very cool.
This is the greatest thread... thanks all.
Looking forward to hearing more... on shame, too.
Love,
Carolyn