Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: tayana on October 12, 2007, 08:32:21 AM
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Well, I called in sick since I have no childcare today. In the future, I will always plan on M going to daycare all day, rather than depending on my mom. Or I will make arrangements with my sister in law. M has no school several days next month.
Right now, me and the dog are laying on the bed enjoying the quiet. M is still asleep.
I'm calling this a sanity day.
I half expect my mom to show up this morning to take M with her. Without calling or what have you, just because that's the way she is. And she'd pretend that nothing ever happened.
Sick woman.
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Dear Tayana,
I don't know if this will be helpful or germane to your issues. I am trying to get to the "root " of why my M is still in my 'head"even though she is "destroying me.I am allowing 'her" to stay there and I am marching to her silent orders.
I am in the process of "exorcising" her. I am trying to face the truth of MY need for her .What am I gaining by still meaching to her drummer?
For me, this is my next 'track". Maybe, you are different in many ways than I am( about this). I am just sharing where I am.
Love and Hugs to you , Ami
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Dear Ami,
If it is of any help or consolation, it took a long time to clear out 'mom' from my head.
Of course, each person is an individual, whilst a similar experience has been endured, there can be no set timescale.
Be assured; healing and 'clearout' does come!
Finally, it has happened for me.
Be gentle with yourself, take one step at a time, and give yourself a little treat.
Love & warm wishes,
Leah
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Hey Ami . . .
I understand what you're saying. I understand exactly. My T says I give my mother too much power over me, only I don't know how to stop doing that. I find myself doing passive-aggressive things because I know she wouldn't approve. This morning, although I'm rather enjoying having a sanity day, I've got this little fear that she's going to show up without calling, even though she said she wouldn't.
At this point, I don't want to see or talk to her. I don't intend to call her, visit, or establish any communication. I didn't do anything wrong. I didn't deserve the treatment I got yesterday. It was irrational and mean.
Talking to my brother and sister-in-law last night, my brother agreed with me. My sister-in-law told me that my mom had told her that she thought I made the right decision in moving. I was flabbergasted, because not once, has she expressed anything similar to me or any other member of my family. In fact she told me I had ripped M away from her. That tells me she's still reeling from the move itself. My son's pediatrician even told me this was an excellent move because I needed one parent, not three. I told my brother that it makes me angry that my mom goes on and on about how she never sees M, but when he's out there she doesn't really do anything with him. Mostly he does what he wants and my mom sits in her chair covered with a blanket. my parents don't do anything special, and if my mom does try something, then she complains about the expense. Or because M was over-excited. Or whatever.
What am I gaining by still meaching to her drummer?
When we can answer that question, then I think we can start healing. I don't think we're gaining anything. I think, at least for myself, that there's a lot of fear of being alone, being abandoned, being successful, etc. I think it's a way to hold myself back.
A long time ago, I wanted to be a counselor. I wanted to work with trauma victims. When I told my mother she said, "You don't want to do that. You don't want to listen to other people's problems all day." I didn't pursue that course, although now, after M's problems and mine, I would like to pursue this course. I was thinking thought that maybe the real reason she didn't want me to go into that field is because she was afraid I'd realize just how dysfuctional my family really is.
I'm reading "An Adult Child's Guide to What's Normal." I really like this book. The first chapter lists traits of people on the road to recovery. My favorite is:
Some of us were spoiled and mothered out of misguided love; seduced to stay in the nest years after our friends had gone out into the world and begun their adult lives. We have finally cut the cord even though it was painful, and we now welcome the responsibilites and rights that come with growing up.
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Dear Tayana,
I am glad that you "resonated "with my post.I was reluctant to write it b/c if the person is not looking in that direction, they can get really angry at the messenger(me)
I don't know if you read any of Shunned's(Amber) threads. She has been very,very helpful to me. The inner child connection(our core self) is the key for me finding the answers that I need to be whole.
My goal and greatest desire in life is to be whole.I was thinking ,last night, about a great relationship with a man. i would want one,of course,but I want to be whole within myself so,so,so much more than anything else.
I feel happy that I have honed my goal down.It feels better b/c I know that the problem AND the solution is within me.
i need some help in the area of female friends. Maybe I will simply" fail my way to success".. I see that codependency simply does not work. It is a HUGE lie. Most of society has bought in to it. There are so many lies simply in society.
Caroline Myss talks about needing to reflect on what you will and will not allow to define you.She is talking about this,I think
Love Ami
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Ami,
I know if I read any of Shunned's posts, but I think I did read a few. I've been reading a lot of the articles that are being posted. I just haven't been commenting much. I've been keeping a sort of "Therapy" journal on my blog, posting my feelings and then working through countering the negativity.
My goal and greatest desire in life is to be whole.I was thinking ,last night, about a great relationship with a man. i would want one,of course,but I want to be whole within myself so,so,so much more than anything else.
I understand this goal, and I've always wanted to have a relationship I felt loved and cherished and I didn't always have to be "on." I wanted someone who could accept me like I was, without conditions and without forcing me to change. Those are things my family has done to me, and I don't like it. Not long after I moved, I realized I'm just not at the stage of my life where I'm ready for a relationship. Friendship, yes, anything more no. I don't really know what my goal is now. So much of my life is spent just surviving and getting through the day, that I forget what my goals are. I've been going to write them down, write down each little step to get to the big goal, and I haven't done that yet.
I don't really know what I'm trying to say here. I"m just rambling. I've done some of the exercises in the books I've read. I think this one is from the controlling parents book. I just read through it and realized I"ve rather fallen off track and it's time to get back on track. I'll post my answers here, maybe you could try this. It helps to put things in perspective, I think.
Sorry, if I'm not being much help here.
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I am not responsible . . . .
For my mother's rages and unpredictable behavior.
For my feeling unloved.
For my feeling worthless.
For my mother's financial irresponsibility.
Her problems
Their happiness.
Their anger.
Their pain.
Their suffering.
For helping my mother heal.
My mother's abusive childhood.
For making my mother fat.
Making her miserable.
Stealing her life and dreams.
For my dad not standing up to her.
I am angry because. . . . .
I never felt loved.
No one ever listened to me.
I was never good enough.
I was never pretty enough.
Nothing I did was ever right.
Mom stole money and credit from me.
She never apologized.
She lied about doing it.
She tried to cover everything up.
She would have let me be arrested or my wages garnished without explanation.
I was never perfect.
My grades were never good enough.
No one believed in me.
No one encouraged my interests and hobbies, or they did, but support came with strings.
She never loved me without conditions.
She doesn't respect my boundaries.
She tells my son lies about things I've said or done.
She tells my son I will do things to him like abandon him.
My father let her get away with it.
My father watched.
My father knew what she was doing and never said anything.
We never talked. We were expected to stay silent.
I never had a voice. I was always too young to understand.
I still feel worthless and unloved.
She thinks I'm a terrible parent.
I was kept isolated.
She criticized everything I did and I always came up short.
No one ever made her get help.
I will no longer . . . .
Allow my mother to control my life.
Let my mother talk me into decisions that feel wrong.
Listen to my mother's lies.
Live in silence.
Be trapped in a prison of her making.
Let my mother tell me how to raise my son
Let my parents treat me like a child. I am an adult. I can make adult decisions.
Allow my mother steal from me. She will no longer steal money, credit or happiness from me.
I am grieving because I never had the family dynamic I wanted. I loved my father. He was always a gentle, steady presence. He was always there for me, but he still let my mom say and do things to me she should never have done. I am grieving because I will never have the relationship with my mother that I always wanted. We will never be close, never share secrets, never sit and talk about life. I am letting go of the fantasy I have held onto that one day I would have that relationship. I am accepting the reality that we will never be friends. I am letting go of my fantasies. I am absolving myself of the guilt I feel, because I was not responsible for their actions or their hurtful words. May these illusions rest in peace.
As an adult, in my relationship with my parents, I am responsible for . . .
becoming a separate individual from them.
looking honestly at my relationship with them.
facing the truth about my childhood.
having the courage to acknowledge the connections between events of my childhood and my childhood and my adult life.
gaining the courage to express my real feelings to them.
confronting and diminishing the power and control that they have over my life.
changing my own behavior when it is cruel, hurtful, critical, or manipulative.
finding the appropriate resources to help me heal my inner child.
reclaiming my adult power and confidence.
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Dear Tayana,
How did you feel as you wrote these? How did you feel after? Ami
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There was a sense of shock, especially for the anger list. I don't register these things as anger. Instead I feel depressed and anxious. I didn't know how angry I really was. Knowing this has led to a lot of anger at myself.
Afterwards, There was some relief, but overall I just felt sad. I was sad because people always thought I had such a great family. They didn't know the truth. My mom in particular presented this "perfect" front to everyone, then complained about them behind their back.
It was unhealthy, and I just sort of learned to fade into the background. I think I was a Lost Child. I was the dependable one, the responsible one, the one everyone could count on to do the right thing. I wasn't really compliant, because I did things just because my mother didn't did things that way. So I had a real rebellious streak, and I still do. A lot of the things I do now are rebellion because she tells me she wants me to do something, and I don't want to.
I've been very anxious this morning because I was afraid my mom would show up unannounced. I don't like when she does that, but she didn't. I'm supposed to be at work right now, and she's not likely to call or come. So I feel a little more relaxed.
See, I did the exercise, but I haven't really put the last part of it in play, that's what I have to work on.
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Dear Tayana,
Scott Peck say that we are buried under lies(in so many words). When he works with a patient ,he takes them back to that first foundational lie.
After Peck goes back and uncovers all the lies and distortions, the person is well.
It hurts and it is slow,but it brings many rewards even while we are on the "painful " path.
Keep sharing the nooks and crannies of your journey,Tayana. Love Ami
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Allow my mother to control my life.
Let my mother talk me into decisions that feel wrong.
Listen to my mother's lies.
Live in silence.
Be trapped in a prison of her making.
Let my mother tell me how to raise my son
Let my parents treat me like a child. I am an adult. I can make adult decisions.
Allow my mother steal from me. She will no longer steal money, credit or happiness from me.
These are SOOOOOO important, Tayana. Add to the list - Let my mother influence my son.
I am not surprised your mother told people she is glad you moved. I would bet she said she was tired of dealing with you.
I really hope you can break contact with this toxic, wretched woman. She is out to do you harm.
Enjoy your day. You deserve it!!!
Love, Beth
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Allow my mother to control my life.
Let my mother talk me into decisions that feel wrong.
Listen to my mother's lies.
Live in silence.
Be trapped in a prison of her making.
Let my mother tell me how to raise my son
Let my parents treat me like a child. I am an adult. I can make adult decisions.
Allow my mother steal from me. She will no longer steal money, credit or happiness from me.
These are SOOOOOO important, Tayana. Add to the list - Let my mother influence my son.
I am not surprised your mother told people she is glad you moved. I would bet she said she was tired of dealing with you.
I really hope you can break contact with this toxic, wretched woman. She is out to do you harm.
Enjoy your day. You deserve it!!!
Love, Beth
Tayana,
You have my sincerest empathy for my mother must be either a relative of yours, or had been cloned!
It turned out that my mother had played a part in stirring up dissention in the rural area in which I chose to live away from her some years previous, but she moved to live nearby some 2 years ago. My mother is the underlying reason behind my neighbour's behaviour.
Which is why he called me a liar and a psycho bitch .......... he needs to get in his car and travel 6 miles to find the actual person he described.
My mother managed to spoil, this year, my peaceful haven in the countryside.
Your writings here on this post could well be mine.
Don't ever let her have control of your son ....... I implore you.
She took over my son.
To this day my heart breaks over that part of my life.
My evil mother has my forgiveness, genuinely, as I know her motivation, and with true compassion and genuineness, I have pity for her soul.
But thus far, I have no mother, I have divorced myself from her, and no contact is necessary for my heart and my soul.
Leah x
Edit: the use of the term "evil" was not chosen lightly, rather it was chosen in evidence of her toxic; lying, scheming, manipulative, devious, and even dangerous; behavioural track record to present day, with the purpose of creating utter misery, and ultimately, destroying lives.
Have gathered several harrowing life testimonies during the last twelve months, all of which I can add to my own life story for personal validation.
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Dear Leah,
Can you tel me what you mean by "evil"? Also, how did you arrive at your conclusion to divorce her? How did you feel when you did it?A sense of peace or anguish?
I am having little 'prickles" of the truth of my M coming in and I feel like I am very close to facing what I have been running away from for a lifetime( and paying for it with emotional and physical illness)BLEH
Love, Ami
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Hi Ami,
I think I ought to answer your question(s) on a new topic created for that purpose, in respect of Tayana's posting.
Which I will do in a short while.
But very quickly, with regard to your comment "(and paying for it with emotional and physical illness)"
It is only during these last few months that it has been highlighted to me/ become known, that that is exactly why throughout my life I have been ill with one virus after another, cumulating in my thyroid being run down, and on top of which, a serve virus infection which had an effect on my heart.
Will post on a new topic shortly.
love Leah x
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I am not surprised your mother told people she is glad you moved. I would bet she said she was tired of dealing with you.
Beth, I don't think she's really glad, after all, now she can't control me. I can make my own decisions regarding what we eat, do. How we live? How much tension is in my house, etc. I was reading about crisis addiction the other day, and I think my mom is addicted to that. When things are going well, she starts something like this to stir up trouble. I am very angry over this latest "stunt," and I can only call it that. I don't intend to contact her.
I really expected to get up this morning feeling down and depressed, instead, I've felt pretty energized. M didn't wake up until late, which I expected because he was pretty pooped from camp. I'm sitting around in my sweats, trying to decide what I want to do today. So far, I"ve emptied and unloaded the dishwasher, got some bread going in my bread machine. I think I might make some chicken for supper tonight. I'm trying to decide if I want to spend the day posting auctions, or if I want to do some cleaning. I'm leaning towards the first, and maybe finish washing up the wool sweaters I'd brought home since it's starting to get cold here. I think I might bake something sweet too, maybe cookies, that could be a lot of fun. I think I'm going to work on my budget some too. I noticed my bank account is looking a bit ill. I need to look at my purchases and analyze what I'm wasting money on.
I'm sure tomorrow, I'll start to feel anxious though because my mother will likely call after two days of no contact. She routinely calls every night, and I'm anxious and irritable until her call is over.
My evil mother has my forgiveness, genuinely, as I know her motivation and with true compassion pity her soul.
But thus far, I have no mother, I have divorced myself from her, and no contact is necessary for my heart and my soul.
Leah, I dearly, dearly want to go completely no contact. I'm not sure how possible this will be without me moving to another state where phone calls and visits are simply not possible. I came very close to calling my father yesterday and telling him I was done, this was the last straw. I hadn't done anything wrong, and I didn't intend to be punished for something stupid.
As far as forgiveness, I'm not sure that can really happen. I know a lot of therapists talk about forgiveness, but I'm definitely not there. I'm really angry, and I really hate the woman for what she's done to me. The hurt may be too deep for forgiveness to happen.
"(and paying for it with emotional and physical illness)"
Ami and Leah, I suffer from constant, intense low level depression. It's not so bad that I can't function, though there are days that are that bad. I also suffer from serious anxiety, enough that I'm going to see a doctor about it. Living with my mom caused: a weakened immune system, serious gastro-intestinal issues, chest pain, panic attacks, headaches, a constant and unrelenting cloud of despair around me all the time, periods of weight gain, followed by periods of weight loss, compulsive eating, compulsive spending. I started spending money to make myself feel better.
Moving has alleviated a lot of the gastro issues. I still have some mild symptoms, but they are mild enough I can take an over the counter drug and I can control the rest with diet and exercise. I do still get occaisional headaches, but not like before. My immune system seems to be recovering, and if I can avoid contact that feeling of black despair no longer exists.
That was the price I paid for trying to live like my mom wanted. At one point I really thought I was going to die I was so sick. I even told a friend that I felt like I was dying. I was having anxiety symptoms so bad that I thought I would have an emotional breakdown. That was when I was I started realizing something had to change. First it was my job, because my old one was causing too much stress, and then my living situation.
I do still have the anxiety and depression problems, but I'm working on those. I really want to have a GOOD life, not a PERFECT one.
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Dear Tayana,
Something just "hit' me so I will share it with you. I think that our problem ( and it is part of our staying hooked up to them) is that we BELIEVE them. Down deep in that wordless place inside we believe that ALL they told us about ourselves is true. BLEH( doubled) Ami
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Ami,
I know that is definitely true. Deep down, I think I'm all of those things my mother told me:
cold, selfish, distant, arrogant, uncaring, etc.
Deep down I don't think I"m worthy of love.
I write about those feelings a lot in my fiction stories.
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Tay,
I didn't mean she IS happy you moved, but she will SAY she is happy. Otherwise she has to admit she was mean and selfish. My mother does this double-faced thing too - she tells me it is responsible and mature to not drink, and then runs to other people and says she just can't imagine what's wrong with me that I had to stop... Your mom gets more attention by saying she is happy you moved out instead of the questions about why you did if she lamented about it.
Sounds like you have a good day planned!!!!!
Enjoy!
Love, Beth
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Dear Tayana,
I am" birthing" this really deep insight.I think that it is at the bottom of my emotional problems.
This is what it is.There can be only ONE of two realities that is true. They are OPPOSITE realities so they BOTH cannot be true.
One is that I cannot trust my perceptions. I don't deserve simple respect.I don't deserve to be a person of dignity and integrity.I can't do "anything" right. Even if I did it right,I did not do it fast enough or well enough.
My value is in how I can please others and "not make them mad".
What I should do is punish myself for all the trouble I am and annoyance I cause. I can "act" like I am O.K.,but I better not believe it down deep and feel "too good" about myself.
The other reality is that I have a "gut" that can tell me about life and that I can trust.I have inherent value.. I can trust that still small voice,inside. I can trust my feelings. I can trust my' core". I can feel my feelings. I can know that whatever I feel is just human and not "bad".I can trust my thoughts.Whatever I think is just 'human"
I can protect myself. I can stand up . I can tell someone to stop hurting me. I can see WHEN they are hurting me. I have a place of value on this earth.
Either the first OR the second is true . Both cannot be true. Also, you can't pick a few from one and a few from the other.
IF the second one is true THEN MY MOTHER IS CRAZY. That is what I don't want to face. That is what I faced today. Love Ami
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Ami,
I have very similar thoughts about not deserving respect, dignity and integrity.
My T makes me work on this. I'm supposed to counter each negative thought with something positive.
So when I think I can't do anything right, then I'm supposed to think of something that is right, that I've done well and remind myself of it.
I can do this, but usually not until after I calm down from a panic attack or whatever. I can't do it right after talking with my mom.
My son just told me he's expecting a friend tomorrow, and I got this horrible panicked feeling. My house isn't clean. I'm going to have laundry everywhere. What do I do with the dog, etc. My son told me about the visit in rather "oh by the way" tone, which upset me, but then I thought what is the big deal? A 10 year old isn't going to care about my messy house, and it's not that messy, really. I just need to wipe the counters off and things like that. I think I'll go out and clean up my patio little in case the kids want to play out there. But I have to consciously tell myself, "There is no big deal here. Just Michael having a friend over. This is a good thing, not a bad thing. There's no reason to get upset or panicked over this."
It's really hard for me. Sometimes I just get that choking panicked feeling, and I don't really know what it is I'm feeling, so I have to step back and look at it.
My mother is crazy. I can admit it. I have to accept that I'm unlikely to ever have her approval. I don't really care if I ever talk to her again, right now. I cringe when my phone rings because I'm afraid it'll be her. I'm having to consciously think, "Why do I care? What does it matter if I answer the phone or not?"
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Tayana,
The kid is fine. Just don't let the mother in the house. Ami
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Oh, good point!
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Dear Tayana,
Just kidding . Seriously, though, kids never notice or care about houses. Kids remember how much kindness and warmth were in the house.
The thing that really hit me in the heart about my M is that IF she is crazy THEN I can trust myself. I think that it was a heart revelation. They say that the "longest distance" is between the head and the heart.
If we knew all that we knew in the" head"--- in the heart, we would be healthy.
Today I called home. I wanted to talk to my F. I used to hang up when my M answered but my F told me that they had caller I.D. I figured that they were so "low tech" that they never knew that I was calling .
Anyway, she was in a therapy session with a client. What is really funny is that she always answers the phone( even for sales calls) WHILE she is in the session.
It cracks me up.
Anyway , we, as abused children, have to see (with the heart) that since they ARE crazy, everything that they told us about ourselves is crazy, too. Love Ami
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I'm starting to get that sick, panicky feeling again, and I don't really know why. I am afraid of the phone, for one, I'm afraid my mom will call. I don't want to talk to her.
So far today I've done a combination of relaxing and work. It's been nice, and I've been mostly relaxed. I've been letting M just play, make a mess in the living room and watch TV since he hasn't really seen TV all week. Maybe I should be doing something with more "togetherness" but I think this is working for both of us.
I just have this sick, panicky feeling, and I can't get rid of it. I guess I'm feeling hurt. For once though, I don't feel guilty. Just hurt a little afraid.
Ami, it's just wrong that you mom answers the phone in a session. That's not right at all. I'm glad she's not my T.
I like what you said about knowing what we know in the head in the heart as well. I have problems with that. I know things, like I know my mom is verbally and emotionally abusive, but I still make excuses for her. That's not right. I guess I just have to learn these things in my heart as well my mind.
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Dear Tayana,
I have a very important thing to say to you .IME, there is no way to heal from our type of M without going through MANY physical AND emotional "symptoms". It is very scary. I was dizzy for 6 weeks. I felt like I was going to pass out.I didn't even want to drive or take a shower b/c of it..
When I was facing the deep truths,I had these strong symptoms. My F helped me through. He kept telling me that I was doing great and that these symptoms were just denial "breaking".
Bella and Janet helped me through it b/c they had gone through similar things.
If you are feeling panicky ,these are just buried emotions trying to "tell" you something. As you heal, they will tell you what you need to know.. Then, the symptoms will go away.
The reason many people do not have a deep healing is b/c they are afraid of the "symptoms". They will not hurt you.I promise.
It is helpful to have someone to call. You have us on the board.,of course.
Tayana, you will prevail if you keep going step by step. Our only "real" problem is that we bought ALL their lies. We have to let them go little by little b/c it is very" jarring "to our system to change.
Step by step ,you will replace the lies with the truth. The truth is that you have inherent value and worth. Anything else is a lie. Keep sharing every step of the way. Love Ami
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Hi Tay,
This is a really big solid truth, I believe, and I think it would help you so much if you focused on this fact.
I am afraid of the phone
What if you just challenge THAT?
Take a break from all the analysing and just ask your smart self, how can I challenge THAT?
What right does a little electric box with a noisemaker in it have to destroy your serenity and peace?
Why do you belong to it, instead of it belonging to you?
Why is there no Ringer Off switch on your phone?
I know people who have unplugged their phones and put them in the closet.
WHAT GIVES YOUR MOTHER THE RIGHT TO WALK INTO YOUR PRIVACY?
THE PRIVACY BETWEEN YOUR EARS?
TO COME OVER UNANNOUNCED?
TO COME OVER AND "TAKE" YOUR SON ANYWHERE, EVER, AGAINST YOUR WISHES?
I am really asking, WHO gives her the right?
Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
love to you,
Hops
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I think the panicky feeling is the part of us that worries about dealing with any emotional fallout we usually deal with.
It starts reacting before the other parts of our brain do.
It's the part of us that feels guilty or shamed or like we have to tap dance and jump out of an airplane to please some unpleasable person.
It just starts racing around in our heads trying to problem solve and, there is no solution, of course.
So...... turning off the ringer and dealing with that panic feeling sounds like a better idea than answering the phone and trying to deal with irrational blaming and shaming from the person causing the panic.
You can't make her happy.... one person can never make 2 people happy.
On the other hand...... one person can make 2 (or 3 or 6 or 10) people miserable.
I think that's the case here. It's no mystery. The family's secret is out. No one died. You're in your own safe little nest.
How do you make it safer and more secure for yourself?
You've stood your ground, yet again. (read that as you've not snapped to attention and done as you were instructed)
Things will get worse. Be prepared and have a plan, mantra something to think about and offset the emotional terrorism you know will come your way.
I vote unplugging phone...... and checking out great jobs in a State you know you love: )
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The phone never rang last night, and I didn't get called this morning to get me out of bed. As I was going to sleep last night, I got to thinking. If she calls me this weekend and starts in with her . . .
"I've been sick and it's all your fault. You won't let me talk to M. You're trying to keep M away from me."
nonsense. I'm going to reply with the following:
"I'm not going to speak to you or visit unless you treat me as an adult capable of making adult decisions. I'm not going to be your whipping girl anymore. If M asks, he is free to call you, but I'm not going to put up with your abuse anymore. Goodbye."
I don't feel great about this decision this morning. I have that sick panicky feeling about it, but I shouldn't have to live in fear. This is my home, not hers, and I'm tired of being treated this way.
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Dear Tayana,
It is a dance with the Devil--isn't it? BLEH Ami
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Ami,
Yes, it is. Isn't it amazing how something so silly can make us feel so bad?
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My T says I give my mother too much power over me, only I don't know how to stop doing that.
Tayana - Don't give up. Your are making extraordinary progress but you are not seeing the rewards. You will if you continue what you are doing.
I have made tremendous progress and in the past year I really got to the roots of my great disfunction. I have come very close to taking back my power. I don't believe there is only one way to do so. I am convinced that it is a different path for each of us but there may be many common paths and common turns along similar journeys. My path has been very convoluted. At times I have "divorced" myself and refused to have contact at other times I have needed her, needed someone to be there for me and have tried to get what I knew she would not, in fact, could not give. The pain of that grief is something I had to work through more than once and each time I found myself back to needing her I felt utter crushed, devasted. The failing was indescribably hopeless. But I have never given up.
Part of my process, for several years, has been working on forgiveness right along with distancing myself. The true gift of forgiveness is not "letting her off the hook" but it is letting me off the emotional hook. For me, forgiving my mother has NEVER been a one time, one sentence action but has been a lengthy, determined process. Determined because I saw that for me, it was precisely the way to get past needing her and precisely the way to get my power back from her. As long as I feel rage towards her for her utter lacking in the ways that every child needs from a mother, then I was bound to her. I can not say that I am completely free of that but I am very close, close enough to now see her as a child in need of mothering from me. I am not committing to doing ANYTHING for her because I just got out of that role. I am merely seeing her in my minds eye as a child who did not get what she needed and seeing her with compassion. The more distance I have the easier it is for me.
Without question the thing that clicked with me to make this possible is that finally after years of trying to get some connection with either of my brothers concerning our parents, this summer my oldest brother told me that I needed to extricate myself from her and then he helped me do that. I am eternally thankful.
I am absolutely not telling you how to get your power back but I am telling you to NEVER give up and I am saying that even if you cannot see where you are going keep taking one step after another. Often in hindsight you can see what works and what doesn't and just keep repeating what does. Most of all - believe - develop confidence that you will indeed get your power back, whether you know how or not - believe that you will. I believe you will. I am cheering for you.
One of the things that has made it difficult for me is that I got caught in a place of feeling sorry for myself. I was in a terrible place with parents and family who were not the least interested in helping me and I could not get myself out and could not find anyone to help. The problem for me in feeling sorry for myself is that I felt helpless without someone to help me, I felt incapable of helping myself. But that was not true. My biggest battle has been overcoming the shame and the sense of utter inadequacy and undeserving. Unfortunately much of those self-sabotaging feelings were powerfully unconscious and I had NO access to them to counter them - plus everything in my life seemed to confirm and magnify those aspects of my life. But I am learning to turn all of that around. A big part of that is addressing the anxiety, the overwhelming fear that I am a failure and will always be a failure and cannot turn my life around. And now I am addressing the falsehood of those lessons learned from my family in early, early childhood.
I needed them and they turned their backs to me and in some ways spit in my face. That is hard to get over and come back from but we can do it. Just keep believing you can do it and keep your eyes open for philosophies that you connect with and find others here or elsewhere that hold those same philosophies and don't stray from them unless you become certain that they are not for you. Never, ever give up. You can do it. You can get your power back from her. You can do it.
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Dear GS,
I have never heard you speak with such strength and confidence. You are in the middle of a pivotal life change(IMO).
I want to hear all the steps and all the ups and downs along the way. You sound really,really great. Love Ami
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Hi Tay,
Been thinking about your "saga" and your recent posts about your parents, your move, the bus incident, your panic, your fear that your NM will call you/drop in, etc and then I thought about Sun Blues's recent post called "How Long This Journey?", and I realized that your panicky feelings, frustrations, etc are like interim stops on the Journey out of N-ville.
I see many (most) of us here on a Journey to free ourselves from the effects of an N and I think that the frustrations, confusion, sadness, disappointment and panic that we feel are the stops along the way in our Journey to personal freedom, out of the clutches of the N.
Tay, you have already come a long way on this Journey: you moved out of your parents' home, you're going to tell your NM to treat you like an adult (or else) and these are HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENTS. So, congrats on that.
I think the panic you feel (I also get panic attacks) is part of this Journey and as we progress further down the road, I believe we will feel less panic and eventually (hopefully), almost none at all.
You're doing good, kid. Hang in there.
Love,
sally
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WOW GS,
You sound wonderful!!!!! Congrats on your transformation!!!!
A big part of that is addressing the anxiety, the overwhelming fear that I am a failure and will always be a failure and cannot turn my life around. And now I am addressing the falsehood of those lessons learned from my family in early, early childhood.
GS, this is a huge insight and it is so fantastic that you are working on this.
GS, I think what you said goes to the core of our panic & anxiety:
the overwhelming fear that I am a failure and will always be a failure and cannot turn my life around
Can we take a vow that we will never again believe this and that we will destroy the tape in our heads that says this to us??
Excellent, wonderful work, GS.
love,
sally
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Thanks Ami and Sally. It always helps to receive encouraging words. I don't know if I am there yet or not, but I do know that I am close. I thought I was "there" this summer but not quite as it turns out. For me, the most important thing about my message to Tayana is simply to not give up even if you can't see where the next step is and even if you are sure you have walked in these same steps before (i.e. you seem to be going nowhere or backwards). No matter how long it takes it is worth it to get out of this living hell. I am determined to get out but I am also determined to find ways to bring others along with me after I get there. People should not have to live with such misery. No more misery!!!
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Wowsers. Yay to you, GS.
And yay to you too, Tayana. You have achieved an incredible amount of growth and progress in a very short time. Working out your boundaries and learning to be assertive with your mother is the reward, in a way.
I'm sorry about all the caps before. Your mother pushes MY buttons too!
But I truly respect you for the enormous changes you've already made.
love
Hops
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I had to stop and think about how I wanted to reply to this thread . . .
GS, you sound wonderful, and as always your advice is very sound. I think I have been going through a period of feelings sorry for myself, at least a little. I've also been under a tremendous amount of stress and so much contact with my mother lately hasn't helped.
There are times when it seems like no matter how far I get, I look around, I still see a mess. I still see so many things that have to get done. Homework is a battle, etc. I feel overwhelmed, and I wish there was someone to turn to but there isn't. The people I should be able to count on, I really can't. I actually have a really hard time depending on other people.
One of the things that has made it difficult for me is that I got caught in a place of feeling sorry for myself. I was in a terrible place with parents and family who were not the least interested in helping me and I could not get myself out and could not find anyone to help. The problem for me in feeling sorry for myself is that I felt helpless without someone to help me, I felt incapable of helping myself. But that was not true. My biggest battle has been overcoming the shame and the sense of utter inadequacy and undeserving. Unfortunately much of those self-sabotaging feelings were powerfully unconscious and I had NO access to them to counter them - plus everything in my life seemed to confirm and magnify those aspects of my life. But I am learning to turn all of that around. A big part of that is addressing the anxiety, the overwhelming fear that I am a failure and will always be a failure and cannot turn my life around. And now I am addressing the falsehood of those lessons learned from my family in early, early childhood.
GS, I understand this exactly. This is my struggle too. I feel inadequate, incompetent, and totally undeserving of anything good. I've realized that I don't really care about the piles of stuff that I have here and there, but when I look at them I feel ashamed because I'm supposed to be able to:
Keep a spotless house
Have a perfect child who never misbehaves, does what he's told, and gets straight A's
Work full time, come home and be a perfect mom
Never worry about myself. I have to think of everyone else.
These are the lessons I learned from my family. From my reading I've learned that I was a lost child, a child who just faded into the background and kept the peace. That's me, the perfect child, the one who was too scared to speak up or put a toe out of line. So I rebelled silently, reading things my mom didn't approve of, doing passive aggressive things . I remember being fifteen and still coming home to watch afternoon cartoons. My mother thought it was silly, but I loved it. And I did it partly because she didn't like it. That's the way everything was. I wasn't allowed to have opinions or a thought of my own, and I grew up to be a doormat, letting people walk all over me because I'd never learned to assert myself. I'm trying to change that.
I see many (most) of us here on a Journey to free ourselves from the effects of an N and I think that the frustrations, confusion, sadness, disappointment and panic that we feel are the stops along the way in our Journey to personal freedom, out of the clutches of the N.
Sally, I think part of it is that these feelings have been bottled up inside for years. I've never been allowed to feel them, express them or admit that it was okay to have them. I think recovery is about learning what those feelings mean, and realizing they are there in the first place. Confronting those feelings takes a lot of strength and courage, because not all of them are pretty.
I was always so jealous of my friends whose families took vacations every year. Sometimes they just went camping, but every year, they went somewhere. My family never did anything like that. We went on one vacation. I was six. We didn't even go where we'd planned to go. My parents think vacations are a waste of time. They don't want to take time from work to go, and my mother wouldn't even go visit her only living relative because she couldn't leave my dad alone for four days. She was afraid he would starve, stray from the pln she has for him, do something she doesn't like, etc. Anytime anyone talks about their vacation, all she can think about is what a waste of money it is. Isn't that sad?
I don't want to be like that. And to not be like that, I have to face those feelings I"ve carried around all my life. So I think I"m a little raw right now because of that, and because of so many changes over a short period of time.
Tay, you have already come a long way on this Journey: you moved out of your parents' home, you're going to tell your NM to treat you like an adult (or else) and these are HUGE ACCOMPLISHMENTS. So, congrats on that.
Thanks, I really do lose sight of what I have done in the face of what still needs to be done.
Can we take a vow that we will never again believe this and that we will destroy the tape in our heads that says this to us??
Absolutely.
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3 days no contact . . .
I felt SO good today, only a little wary as we went off to get our newest family member. I did all kinds of work, even watched a TV program while I worked. I decided to stop listening to what my mom told me to do with my house and just fix it the way I like it. It looks really nice, although I really want to get rid of the couch my mother gave me now that I have a nice loveseat. I'd like to have one more chair . . .
I'm waiting to see how long she'll go before she calls. M goes back to school tomorrow. Anyone want to take bets?
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Gosh, I can so identify with your struggle Tayana The characteristics of your NM that you describe are nearly identical to mine. Certainly, I share the "sense of failure" feeling. Unfortunately, I have to live with my NM and co-dad right now so I feel incredibly stuck and hopeless. People say to never give up but it is so hard when all my efforts to make changes are thwarted. But like the others here, I give you so much credit. It is so hard to stand up to an N family member. You should pat yourself on the back for sure.
I often get really made at myself that I can't get past all of this and that I need them so much when they have no need for me. I wish sometimes I didn't need them. It would be so much easier. But for some odd reason, I'm not built like that.
I'm wonderng, too, how others here deal with the whole "holiday" situation that is coming up. For me, it is a really difficult time. My Nmom and co-dad of course spend the holidays with my Nsister. My "healthy" but distancing brother has his own family although sometimes he includes me. But lately I've been feeling so hurt and sad and depressed about all of them, that I just want to curl up in bed and not move.
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Tayana,
Even if she calls, you don't have to answer!!!! Remeber that and keep taking care and try not to be on pins and needles waiting...
Love, Beth
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Tay.... I think your mother really thinks she's punishing you by not calling.
I'm guessing she won't be able to help herself past Tues.
2 bucks says she calls by tomorrow for sure.
We'll see.
What did you name the newest family member?
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When I talked to my Aunt yesterday,I had the sense of being 'transported" in to a new world where there was comfort, warmth, acceptance and love. I just remembered about the "Little Match Girl". That was always "my" fairy tale(in my mind). My Aunt's life was the warm,beautiful room filled with love and good things.My Life was the cold stones on the outside where the match girl finally died. I see that we live in a "small" world ( N mothers)that is not really "real".
We think it is real b/c it is all we know. There really is a world where people are kind to each other. There is a world where our own heads don't attack us.
There is a world where we can love ourselves when we are not the 'best" and not wait for the day WHEN we are the best.We can love ourselves WITH flaws. We can make mistakes and still love ourselves. Maybe I made a mistake with Maria .I don't know,but I have to let it go no matter what.I have to keep learning how to live life in the beautiful room with the warmth and comfort--not die on the cold stones outside.( as I have been doing since age 14)
I am seeing a glimpse in to this world. I had it with my GM( my aunt's mother). It is out there. We have to reclaim it at an"advanced" age.That is a bummer,but at least I know that it exists. Love Ami
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Sunblue, I really feel for you, having left a very similar situation. Nothing can describe the soul-sucking that goes on when your stuck in a house with your N and your co-dad. It's like all the joy just drains out as soon as you walk in the door. I could have had the best day, gotten a massive raise, and been crowned queen of the universe, but as soon I'd walk in that door, all the energy just drained away. I was tired all the time. I couldn't even enjoy my evening. I had to go and sit and watch TV with my mom. If I didn't then "Something was up" even if I was just working on auctions. Sunblue, I don't know what your situation is, but I looked very carefully at my finances and I made a plan to leave. It's the best thing I ever did.
I'm wonderng, too, how others here deal with the whole "holiday" situation that is coming up. For me, it is a really difficult time. My Nmom and co-dad of course spend the holidays with my Nsister. My "healthy" but distancing brother has his own family although sometimes he includes me. But lately I've been feeling so hurt and sad and depressed about all of them, that I just want to curl up in bed and not move.
I don't really enjoy holidays, and I haven't for years. My nmom always made them such a chore, from simple things like fixing a meal to putting up a Christmas tree. It was a ridiculous ordeal. The day of the actual holiday things would be tense until the rest of the family got there, and then she'd be just as sweet as could be, with the occasional jibe thrown in. By the end of the day, I'd be utterly exhausted.
Here's my advice about holidays. Make your own traditions for yourself, even if you spend the time alone. I've tried to make some traditions with my son, even though my mom disapproved and made me feel bad about them. We usually go to the "old town" Christmas celebration and walk around outside, drink hot chocolate, listen to carolers, etc at Christmas. We might do a little shopping, and we go to lunch. We go trick or treating on halloween. We watch fireworks on the Fourth. My mother always thought these were ridiculous things, especially when my son got plenty of candy and could watch fireworks on TV. It's not the same.
Some things you could do for yourself. "Take a break" from your family and do something that you enjoy. Go to a park if the weather's nice enough and read a book. Take a walk. Go to a spa and have a makeover. Get a massage. Read a book. Do anything that makes you feel good. I know it doesn't sound like much, but being able to take that bubble bath and reading a book with the door shut and being unlikely to be disturbed was very good.
Beth, if she calls me at work today, I'm not answering.
Lighter, I'm thinking it'll be today. I know she thinks she's punishing me, but the only person she's hurting is herself. I certainly don't care, and I actually feel good.
The new family member's name is Hammy. IT was going to be Ham, but it's a girl.
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Yee haw, Hammy!
She must've been whispering sisterly solidarily in your ear all night, Tayana! :D
You sound GREAT.
LOVE IT.
love to you,
Hops
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Thanks Hops. I checked on the rat when I went home at lunch. (I call her the rat.) She was sleeping in her house.
Got my check up call here at work. I didn't answer it though, and no message was left. She must not want to talk to me too badly. So far she's not left a message at home or on my cell.
Can I say that I feel really sick now?
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sure you can, ((((Tay)))).
You're breaking a familiar pattern.
Maybe, even, you're stopping an addictive behavior.
Withdrawal is uncomfortable.
On the other side...is your life.
Your sweet new life that belongs to YOU.
love,
Hops
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I felt really good this morning, but now I'm feeling rather like hiding in a corner. I'm talking to my T tonight, so maybe that will help.
I don't know that it's addictive, just that I want to have approval, and since I was never allowed to do the sort of things where I could make friends. My family was all I had. I'm holding my breath that she doesn't call tonight. I'm sure it'll be nasty. I hope she's waiting for me to make the first move, but I'm not ready for that yet.
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Today is day 5 of no contact . . .
I mentioned something to a co-worker who said I was being petty and mean, but I don't think my co-worker understands the long-term effects of emotional and verbal abuse and persistent emotional blackmail. I don't really think I"m being petty and mean. My T was very supportive of my decision.
I just like feeling halfway good again, not constantly depressed and ready to hide at any moment.
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Dear Tayana,
"Regular" people have NO earthly idea how HORRIBLE it is to deal with an N mother. I am careful who I tell things to b/c people simply cannot understand. Who could understand what a nuclear blast was like unless you experienced it--- BLEH? Ami
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::paying Tay::
You won the bet... she phoned yesterday, like you said she would.
The withdrawls and sadness are part of having turmoil in your life... and feeling theres nothing to replace it. No escape. Just the turmoil is enough to upset us, lets face it.
You've already started replacing it though, and that lets in more hope and sunshine.
As you say.... you didn't have a chance to build up outside social circles.... it'll take a while.
With her negativity and demands, jerking you around emotionally, gone.... you'll have more energy and time to cultivate more activities and outside friends....new family.
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Lighter, want to hear something funny? My mom grew up with her grandmother, and I've heard her complain numerous times about taking care of her grandmother when she got older. She would go over and take her food, or visit, and she wouldn't much more than get home until the woman call again wanting something else, and she'd rush back to do that.
I think it's really strange that she's turned into that woman, when she complained so much about the way she was treated. She expects me to do that now, run to the phone when she calls, rush out to visit, wait on her and take care of her. No conversation with her is complete without a detailed analysis of her health issues. Then she goes on about how she's not going to be around much longer. I won't say that I want her to die, but I'll be so relieved when it does happen.
Ami, I know "regular" people have no idea. My co-worker's father is a little psycho, so I thought he might understand. Apparently I was wrong. I haven't told him what really goes on, or how abusive it really is.
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That's the thing about being stoic..... when you finally talk, people see it coming out of no where bc we haven't been chattin up all our problems. Wouldn't know what to say about them anyway.... so confusing.
I think you could talk about your mother with this guy..... since he's shared with you.
Maybe he'll understand bc he has the psycho father thing, going on?
I don't like that he judged you.... you haven't even shared the trouble you've had.
It's OK to share..... though it's worrisome to think about being treated like a leaper over this type of thing in your life.
I guess I think it's more important to speak your truth than to live covering up things.
It's interesting when people don't pull away and run for cover, lol.....
::whispering:: though sometimes they do :shock:
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DearTay,
Al little psycho and N are two different things. N is in a class by itself made worse by no one else seeing the truth. My Aunt is shocked at what I tell her. She had NO idea that her sister was like that
I want to ask you s/thing,Tay.
I can see that YOUR M is close to totally hopeless to change. However,I keep thinking that MINE will b/c I want it so badly.
Do you see mine as hopeless? Thanks Ami
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Am, I don't think my friend's father is an N. I think he was just a jerk. Big difference there. I'm not sure I can even describe the crazymaking tactics my mom can put everyone through, and everyone in my family knows it. My brother even told my dad once that he should have divorced her.
Ami, I don't think people change unless THEY want to change. My mom isn't going to change because she doesn't think there's anything wrong with her. She talks about her depression all the time, and maybe she is depressed. There's treatment for depression though, and it involves going to someone who treats it, not sitting at home in a chair, covered up with a blanket and making up schemes and fantasies. I'm not sure my mom even knows what is real and what is made up anymore.
What I've read about your M, I don't think she's going to change. We want them to change. We want to have good, healthy relationships with these people, but it's not going to happen. They just aren't capable of healthy relationships because they don't think there's anything unhealthy about themselves. But if they won't change for themselves, they aren't going to change for us.
I was reading in my book today that if you pity your parents you've been abused by them. I pity my parents, both of them. I think it's sad, the way they live, or choose not to live. I wish I could say something different, but I think the only thing we can do is either develop a relationship with them as they are or else cut them out of our lives completely.
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Hi Tayana-
You are a loving person who has a natural need to love and be loved by family. You have shown your mother the best compliment anyone could have by being such a fantastic mom, though she may be blind to this. Perhaps your FOO may not be the place to love and be loved, but you are doing a terrific job of fashioning a new place of love, and more loving people will enter your circle little by little- your courage is creating a new cycle and a new way of family for your son, instead of you "turning out just like mom". I am very proud of you.
Love,
Changing
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Me too!
Ditto!
What she said!
Yay, Tayana!
Leaps and bounds, dear.
Awed.
love
Hops
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Something I am clear about is that most "normal" people do not get the Nabuse. You need to experience it to really know it. Yesterday in class the prof was talking about psychological abuse and how difficult it is for people to understand the effect of it unless you have experienced it. My class mate, who was married to an N - confirmed NPD turned to me and said one word "gaslighting" We talked about it for a little while after class but she agreed that N games/psychological abuse is beyond the understanding of most people.
I have found being on this board is one of the few places in my life where there is real knowing and understanding about the psychological effects of living with an N and the aftermath of the experience. I don't share too much with people about N because I know they just don't get it.
Take care T, you are doing very very well,
axa
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Thanks Tayana,
Whenever I want to give up and go in to "self pity", I always think of you,on the board, who understand.
I have been in many support groups and people would pity me-- even really bad alcoholics b/c they never heard of a M like mine.
That was depressing. N is a separate category made worse by the way that they hide it from others.
So, the only people who ever understood were you ,on the board.You give me the courage to go on.
I gave up b/c I was so alone. I am not alone ,anymore. You understand and you are going forward.It is the best encouragement that I could ever get. Love Ami
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You are a loving person who has a natural need to love and be loved by family. You have shown your mother the best compliment anyone could have by being such a fantastic mom, though she may be blind to this. Perhaps your FOO may not be the place to love and be loved, but you are doing a terrific job of fashioning a new place of love, and more loving people will enter your circle little by little- your courage is creating a new cycle and a new way of family for your son, instead of you "turning out just like mom". I am very proud of you.
Thanks Changing. I'm trying very hard not to be like mom. I don't want to be. I've accepted that my mom will never be who I want her to be. I've given up trying with her.
Thanks Hops.
Axa, no one really believes me when I tell them. They think I'm overreacting, but they don't understand. They don't understand how much disapproval you can hear in non-verbal language, or tone of voice, or the flick of an eyebrow. They don't know how scary it is. At least here people understand.
Ami, I'm glad that I've helped you, if just a little bit.
Today is day 6 of no contact. It's really a strain now.
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Woohoo 6 days - incredible! This must be the longest stretch ever, yes? You are breaking new ground and it's hard work. When I decided not to contact my dad, which was a year before I knew the N-connection, every day was so hard and it weighed so heavily on my consciousness. Also I went back and forth between feeling like he was punishing me (cold shoulder freeze out) and feeling like he never even noticed it (so totally possible). Eventually I realized that I didn't want to talk to him so what is that pressure that we feel that we should talk to them, call them, touch base, care take, check in, worry... or else??? I think you are ready for the "or else" now or soon enough. What's the "or else" all about after all those years of threats, eh? Or else they will disown us? We should be so lucky. :shock:
Seriously tay I think you are doing great work and there is no question in my mind and in my experience that it is hard hard hard. But you know what? At least it is something new and not the same old, same old. You know? For me the tedium/repetition of it all was really the straw that broke the camel's back, I think. There was a blow out that was the turning point seemingly, but there was always a dramatic scene about something or other (completely, completely, completely blown out of proportion and turned into a referendum on my badness - as Ami says - bleah). Ick.
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Hey Iphi,
Yes, this is the longest I"ve ever gone without talking to my parents. It is very hard work, because there's a part of me that really wants to talk to them, but I know the first thing out of my mom's mouth will be, "Well, I didn't think you wanted to talk to me." Or "Did you finally decide to call? That phone works two ways." Or "I thought maybe you'd died." I don't want to listen to that.
This last blowup came after a few weeks of fairly good relations, and it's over something so trivial, that there should have been no discussion at all. I wish they would disown me. It would be so much easier.
I know what you mean about the tedium. It's so predictable. I can just hear all the objections to us getting the rat (hamster), but it's been good for M. He adores it. I just hope he doesn't kill it with all of his love.
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Ummmm... maybe if M does love his little friend a little too hard..... you could get him a ginney pig next time?
Sturdier stuff, GP's are.
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Lighter . . . I said no to the guinea pig, which is what he wanted to start with, because of space, and it was just the right size for a good doggie chase and snack. I figured that's the last thing he wants to see. Now the dog is very curious about the hamster, and I tell M to be very careful, although the dog has sniffed and licked the hamster, so we'll see how that goes. It's a teeny little thing.
She looks like this:
http://www.hamsterhideout.com/breedschinese.html
Dark gray though, not light.
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Axa, no one really believes me when I tell them. They think I'm overreacting, but they don't understand. They don't understand how much disapproval you can hear in non-verbal language, or tone of voice, or the flick of an eyebrow. They don't know how scary it is. At least here people understand.
Tay,
I think you have written the first stanza of the anthem of the Voicelessness board! Seriously, I think you have expressed an aspect of the essence of N survivorship in a nutshell.
Congratulations on day 6 (7?) of NC. The NC is like giving up an addiction that damages our health. You crave it, but when you get it, you realize how destructive it is to you.
It is very hard work, because there's a part of me that really wants to talk to them, but I know the first thing out of my mom's mouth will be, "Well, I didn't think you wanted to talk to me." Or "Did you finally decide to call? That phone works two ways." Or "I thought maybe you'd died." I don't want to listen to that.
Tay, I know exactly what you mean: the mixed feelings, the unfounded expectation, the misplaced hope that we could feel better if we spoke to our Ns and then we speak to them and the disappointment sets in, the "why did I call them, I knew it would be like this-BLEH". Damned if you do talk to them & damned if you don't.
Keep going girl, you're doing Great!
love,
sally
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Today is day 7 of NC. It is like an addiction, and knowing the sort of sickness contact will bring, I don't want it. Yet at the same time I still crave it.
Axa, no one really believes me when I tell them. They think I'm overreacting, but they don't understand. They don't understand how much disapproval you can hear in non-verbal language, or tone of voice, or the flick of an eyebrow. They don't know how scary it is. At least here people understand.
Tay,
I think you have written the first stanza of the anthem of the Voicelessness board! Seriously, I think you have expressed an aspect of the essence of N survivorship in a nutshell.
Sally, wow! Thanks. I'm glad that comment made sense. Thanks for all of the encouragement.
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It does look like a rat, lol.
Just curiouse.... why not one of those ponderously round little waddling hampsters?
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Well, the lady at the pet store recommended this one because it was gentle, and he made his own choice.
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Tay...
I am amazed
that there is a National Hamster Council.
Hammy's cute!
And I'm more amazed at your grit.
Good for you, for enduring the discomfort.
Holding on to your new resolve, your new hope, right through discomfort
is a huge achievement.
hugs
Hops
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Hops,
Do you think so? It's actually really nice coming home and not being on pins and needles until The Call. I've considered writing or calling after I've decided what my boundaries are, but right now I'm enjoying this.
I didn't know there was a National Hamster Council either. The rat does seem to be doing well. She likes carrots, lettuce and celery. I'm glad there's someone else in this house besides me that likes veggies. We've got to make a trip to the pet store for a different wheel this weekend. The one that came with the cage doesn't work very well. Hammy's actually very sweet too. She gives kisses.
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Awww.
That's really neat.
I sense you're lightening up on yourself a trifle, eh?
ENJOYING something??????
Yay, Tay!
Hang right on. It is going to get EASIER after a month or so,
just take it a day at a time.
SO impressed and happy for you,
Hops
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And if you don't watch her she'll give you some love nips too. It doesn't really hurt though.
Maybe, just a little lighter. I have to admit that I like the rat. M does a good job of taking care of her.
I don't know how long NC is actually going to last before M decides he wants to see his grandma, but hopefully by then, I'll decide why my boundaries are and I can stand up to her. I was just doing this interesting exercise about the victim role. One of the questions is do I ask for people to meet my needs, and the answer is no. I have to learn to do that.
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Honestly, Tay.....
if I'd learned these lessons at your age.....
you're just way ahead of the game, compared to where I was, figuring these things out.
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Hammy is very cute and kisses too. :)
Psst if you turn off the ringer in the evenings you will be blissfully unconcerned about whether a Call comes or not and the NM will have to leave a message if she can stand to do so (give up control to such an extent). :lol: Then you can take your sweet time deciding about responding. Well, this is my approach anyway.
Asking for assistance or to meet my needs is a huge one for me also and prompts me to share that it has come to a boil with having a baby. So embarrassing - it makes me angry to ask for things - so dysfunctional. I've had to apologize many times because it's my baggage. :roll: You've got company tay.
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Iphi, I have a terrible time asking for help, even for silly things that I don't really know how to do. I'll spend hours figuring out how to fix something myself, rather than calling support or asking someone else.
I labored for a long time over whether or not to start seeing my T, in fact, even though that has helped me immensely. I just didn't want to ask for help.
I think it's normal when we grow up in a dysfunctional home that we learn to rely on ourselves because our families can't be trusted. I have huge trust issues. I also have problems with intimacy of any sort. I really have to work on giving hugs and kisses and being affectionate, because my family just wasn't like that. My mother rarely hugged me, and my father almost never did.
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I have to say that I've gotten good about getting help from strangers and professionals, though it used to be so painful, but at an intimate level - is where the problems lie. Terrible difficulties in friendships - just being forthcoming and stuff. I almost prefer to just have positive experiences with acquaintances than get into rocky stuff at closer levels of relationship. Almost. My H just loves affection and that makes it much easier to give it, as I always wanted to. I love to give affection, but of course the rejection and disgust reaction from family is so devastating. I almost couldn't believe he reacted positively to my affection. Over time it's been very healing. I hope you and M allow yourselves to positively give and receive affectionate gestures. It's good for ya!
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Hiya Tayana,
Read through this whole thread and I'm impressed. 7 whole days and N/C! How does it feel?
How about these responses:
Ma: "Well, I didn't think you wanted to talk to me."
Tay: "I didn't. I'm an adult. I don't need to talk to you so often. I'm ok. You're ok."
Or Ma: "Did you finally decide to call? That phone works two ways."
Tay: "Yep. I know how the phone works and I choose when to use it. It's working well for me. How is it working for you?"
Or Ma: "I thought maybe you'd died."
Tay: "Nope. Hope you're not disappointed. (chuckle)"
The main thing is maybe.........to keep cool, light, be easy about it. It's no big deal. People go much longer periods without speaking to eachother with no ill effects. They get busy. Maybe you can practice sounding unconcerned and even glad to hear from her? Freak her out by not jumping through her hoops (by not getting defensive or reacting to her words). Not easy but you can do it!!
Hey! Nobody died!! Maybe she'll surprise you and be pleasant when she does call? Enjoy the peace and extra energy you have without her constant picking. Maybe you can tell her you've had a pleasant week and accomplished much (without giving details), that you hardly noticed how time has passed? That you figgered she must be busy too?
Sela
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Dear Iphi,
Close relationships are very hard for me( especially woman). Men friends are not AS hard.I just have been so programmed by my M that a woman is going to "knife" me.
This whole thing with Maria has really really helped me..
I was very real. She saw my good and bad. Then I decided to trust myself -midstream- and it still worked out( with the help of all of you)
I think that the reason that I am afraid of intimacy is b/c I don't know who I am enough.I don't feel like I can be there for myself when outside pressure comes. I feel like I will let the other person control and/or define me.Then I will have to run away b/c I don't know what to do next.
My lack of my own willingness to be "me" no mater what or who is around is the problem-- not any other person.
Fear of intimacy is an inside "job" (IMO) --not an outside one. That is my take,anyway. Love Ami
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Sela, she won't be pleasant. She can nurse a grudge like you wouldn't believe. I just happen to be on the grudge list. It's really very sad. If I go back and kiss her feet, then she'll forgive me. I'm just refusing to do that. It'll be hard to be light and pleasant. I was thinking about calling today, it's day 8 of no contact, but the thought made me a little sick, so I decided not to. I like your answers though.
Ami, I manage to have one close friendship at a time, it seems. The most I've ever had has been two or three. I do better with women than men, although I work better with men than women. It makes no sense, but I don't do well with female bosses and colleagues. I read where people who are afraid of intimacy never really received it as children, and that seems to be true. I'm not quite sure why I'm afraid of it; I'm very self conscious for one. I'm very ashamed to say that I have never had a real love relationship, and I'd be petrified of going on a date. I think it's that self conscious behavior that gets in the way. I worry about how I look, how I chew, how I talk, etc. It takes a while for me to get to a level where I feel comfortable with intimacy.
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tay..... I'm so glad you didn't call your mother.
I'm not sure where you're headed with this break from her.....
but I (not so secretly) hope it's permanent.
At least..... for you. Maybe you have little visits for M's sake.... like at Holidays but I can imagine the cost of such gatherings and they aren't worth it, IMO.
It's not like you're losing unconditional love, affection and mommy food.
That's not the case.
And....... I sometimes really worry about how your Mum's behavior affects M.
Sometimes, the best of our intentions just set us up for damages we can't see clearly.
I think she's done damage to M.
I think M will be better off without her.
I think you'll be better off without her.
Have Holiday's with your brother......
I know this sounds extreme but..... I throw it out there and you can make your decisions, like the big girl you are.
(((tay))) ::continuing to be amazed by your strength::
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Lighter,
I'm not sure where I'm headed with this break either. At the moment, I'm enjoying the silence. I was making a list this morning, before M got up, of things I wanted to buy, things that could be near future purchases and things I'd like to get someday.
I don't know that this break will be permanent. I do know that I'm trying to decide how much or how little contact I want to have with my mom. M sort of shook me up last night because he wanted to go out to the other house to get some things, and I don't want to go. I'm still thinking about the storage unit idea, at least then, we could go get things whenever we wanted without me becoming a basket case.
I know she's done damage to M. She did everything for him, and now he has this idea that he can't do anything on his own. His self esteem has taken a major blow. She sees everything she's done as loving and helpful, but her help has been damaging. Like when I was having major problems at work and she took to calling my boss to tell him my job was making me sick. She thinks she's helping, but she's not. No matter how many times I tell her she's not helping me, she continues along the same road. She'll never change. I'm hoping I can wean M off of needing her so much so I don't have to see her.
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Dear Tayana,
I had a strong 'gut" reaction to reading your last post. It is that you as the M have to decide what is in his( M's) best interest.He can't decide it b/c he is not mature enough.
This is a simple example but my S(younger) was in first grade.I found out that the teacher did not even know Phoenics( she was young). I went through a lot of trouble( the principal was angry at me) to move my S in to another class with an older teacher who knew Phoenics.
My S was very,very angry at me. I can still remember his little face. He loved that first teacher. To this day,he never learned Phoenics enough to be able to learn another language well. I got 'Hooked on Phoenics --but he still has a deficit from that first grade teacher.
Anyway,my point(obviously) is that you have to decide what amount of contact is in M's best interest----if any. This will be the hard part. Perhaps, you may have to explain the "whole "truth about your mother to M. Kids always know more truth than even adults do.(often)
I think that M should not be the leader in the contact issues--- even for himself.Also, any truth about life situations is always better than lies( age appropriate --of course).
Anyway ,that is what hit me when I read it.Compost what is not right for you. Love Ami
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M is not happy with me because I wouldn't go get something from the other house. I don't want to go out there, so I'm still trying to decide how much/how little I want to be around my parents. I'm leaning towards not much.
So, I'm not really letting him dictate when we go or when we don't, but I am hearing a lot of whining. My M didn't want me to bring too many of his things, so when she "helped' me pack, she packed up boxes and boxes of books (a lot of which were taken to the library) but none of the things M played with, mistakenly thinking he was going to be spending a lot of time with her. Well, he didn't, so things have slowly started to come home with lots of protests from my mom. I'm trying to make a rule that when new things come in, other things have to go out to be donated, sold or otherwise. One of the advantages of moving is that I can eliminate a lot of clutter.
I'm totally off topic here. That's what I spent my morning doing, listing things to sell in my shop. I'm going to do Ebay items tomorrow.
I think M does have an idea that something is going on. He might not understand completely, but he definitely knows something isn't right. Ultimately, I'm the one with the car, and I don't want to drive to my parent's house this weekend, maybe I'll decide this week what boundaries I feel comfortable with, what I want to ask for, and what I can handle. When I decide that, then I'll call and talk to my mom. Not before.
Today is day 9 of no contact.
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Tay.... I've heard some positive things about Craig's List to sell things too.
M needs his stuff.
How smart of you to come up with plan to clear out clutter as you bring in things he really wants.
You should go ahead and deal with that end of your problem...... getting your things. How much is there?
Can you get it in in one trip?
Can your brother store it in his basement maybe? It's not like you haven't been shouldering the majority of your parent's burdens, time for him to help you a bit, IMO.
Can he go and get the damned boxes himself too?
Can you go over there when your mother is doing something out side of the house?
You sound so much better when you don't have to keep going over her words and actions daily.
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Lighter, I so wish I could get all of my crap in one trip . . . the worst of it is. I don't even want most of it. I think my goal is going to be to have it all out by the first of the year, or at least everything I really want. I can't even describe how much stuff there is. There's a lot of things that were to be sold, but I was never allowed to sell things, so its been shoved in a closet or whatever.
I don't think my brother has room to store my stuff.
My mother only leaves the house to go to the doctor, and I never know when that is. She's always there, like some sort of spider waiting for a fly in its web. I try to get stuff when I go out there, but I'd love to go without M and the dog and just pack my car as full as I can, get all of the things I want, and she can have the rest.
Do you know she even made me give back a basket that was my grandmother's? It had my music books in it, and she made me give it back because it was an antique. She didn't want me to ruin it because it was a split oak, buttocks basket. She gave it to me because I didn't have anything that belonged to my dad's mom. I was so hurt. I wasn't planning to get rid of the basket. I just wanted to take it home.
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I think I'd get that buttocks basket :shock: back from her and keep it.
Indian giver that she is..... she can't just give things then take them away bc she's angry at you.
I mean.... you don't have to let her.
You deserve something from your grandmother.
It was wrong and cruel of her to take it but she got what she wanted.
She wanted you to feel the way you do.
I think you go in, sans dog and M, fill your car with what you really must have then tell her to deal with the rest. Or even better, just don't go back or mention the stuff ever again. Let her keep it and you can go through it when she's passed away. Take what you want then.
That sounde awful I know..... but I think I wanted it to sound horrendous!
How dare she?!??
The NERVE!!
::calming a bit::
Go get M's most cherished things...... the things you really want.....
::whispering:: yes, the basket too.... then never go back.
I think you'd feel freedom and weights lifted.
I can imagine you going through those closets and boxes and thinking the entire time.... 'this is the last time I have to listen to your mouth, look at your face or interpret your wicked thoughts, mother'
I envision you leaving a messy trail of boxes and packing stuff to your car, with an empty promise to be back very soon to deal with the balance of the stuff.
Your mother makes me very ornery..... so I'll stop there.
You have enough troubles without having to read my demented suggestions, which I hope you'll at least consider, lol.....; )
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Lighter, you don't know how close I am to renting a truck, backing it up to her front door and loading it up with some help from my son's father. We've been talking in the last couple of years, and we've tentatively agreed to meet in a couple of weeks. I've forgiven him for being an ass, he's been supportive and offered what help he could, including help moving. I'm so tempted.
That's not all she asked for back, before I moved, she wanted back a ring she'd asked me to put in my internet shop. I'd made her a necklace and she wanted a minor change done, but I hadn't had time to fix it. So she said she'd fix it herself and wanted that back. She gave me two quilts, but said she wanted one back after I decided which one to use. Then she told my father that the jewelry I was supposed to get when she died, she wanted him to sell to pay for her burial. She's already said she doesn't want a funeral and just wants to be cremated, that can't cost much. I'll even pay for it.
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I LOVE THE TRUCK idea and I wouldn't even grunt if you had M's father helping: /
Where would you put everything and when can you get the truck?
Anyway..... it costs a bit, even to have someone creamated.
If I was you.... I'd suggest that she donate her body to science and do the world some good when she goes. That's how I intend to handle my departure, so it's not like I'm suggesting something over the top. Costs a lot less than anything else too :D
Tay... how are the conversations going with M's father? I'm curiouse... I didn't know you were in contact.
As for the jewelry you were supposed to get.... she'll probably just torture you with that as an empty threat. You can always offer to buy the jewelry from your father, if he's a big of a weenie to follow that rediculous order?
Bloody unforgivable behavior, esp from a mother and father.
Of course, at some point you will forgive.
Now...... back to what you'll do with that stuff, until you can unload it. I SAY>..... find a consignment shop and ask when they accept things. Line up the truck on that day and have them expecting you.
You can cull out what you're keeping in the parking lot and it's about damned time that daddy help.
Don't you have a storage space at your apartment? Time to figure out what you're getting rid of in your home and make room for the things coming in. Take it all to the consigment shop.
What a relief to have that off your plate, eh?
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Lighter, don't know where everything would go. I do have a storage space, but it's pretty small.
It can't cost as much as a burial and funeral. She doesn't want to donate her body. She said there was too much wrong with it for that. I think that's what i'd like to do.
The coversations with M's father are going pretty well. We're supposed to have a face to face meeting in a few weeks, just for lunch. When he first started contacting me, I told him off. I started rethinking things later on and contacted him again. We've been talking, over email, since. He's not offering much in the way of support right now, he's sort of letting me decide what I'm comfortable with.
You know, I don't really care about the jewelry. It's just the sentiment that makes me mad. I don't like the jewelry.
No, I don't think I will forgive.
I don't know what to do with the stuff. I could sell some of it, I suppose, but it all has to be gone through. I don't really want to do it. There's some things I want, and the rest I really don't care about. I'd like to have the rest of my books, M's stuff, and the rest of things from my room and the bathroom. That's it.
It would be a relief, then I wouldn't have to talk to her.
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By 'donate'.... I meant donate it to science.
Med students.....
Poking about to see what went wrong..... how it looks up close?
I guess she'd end up at the nearest University.
I didn't mean give sight to a blind child or a new chance for life to a young mother of 3 :shock: Who'd wanna do something like that?
I'm a donor, btw.
So..... schedule the truck for a day and sort it out in the parking lot of a consignment shop on days they accept new items.
A good shop should help you unload and price it for you.... send you checks once a month.
Gone.... off your plate... nice.
The other things..... the books etc. Sort through and keep what you want. Make your storage bin a maybe pile, perhaps?
Is it time for some new shelving systems at the apartment?
Maybe the consignment shop will have just what you need, when you check them out?
You can store stuff under beds? There are containers that fit under beds with frames and little risers to put inder the frames if still not high enough.
Think ahead and be ready when this happens.
I want you to enjoy having the things you want and not be so overwhelmed by it.
Shelving, under bed storage.... more racks for closets? Get creative.... think about it way ahead.....
90% research.... 10% execution.
I bet IKEA has some great (cheap) items that would give you some solutions and ideas!
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My grandmother donated her body to science, but my mom even made a comment the other day that they wouldn't want her body because there was so much wrong with it. She wanted to be cremated and have her ashes scattered where her dog was buried. Actually, it was my dog, but everyone forgets that.
I love, love Ikea, only we don't have an actual store here, which is probably a good thing. I've bought shelves and that sort of thing for the apartment, spent way too much money on that sort of stuff. Containers shelves, etc.
I have to think about this some more. My mom wants me to go out there and take all of the stuff out of the one closet because they don't want to heat the upstairs, even though it's all open and they can only close the two vents. Silly huh.
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Your mom wants you over there..... where she can see you, talk to you, criticise you and get her hands on M.
The closet, 2 closed registers? They're her ruse..... you know it. I know it. She knows it.
Your father would know it if it didn't cause chaos, but it does.
So.... it is what it is. No surpirses and you're thinking about your stuff and how to solve that problem.
I'd say you're right on schedule.
btw... have I told you how amazed I am at your stamina, strength, ability and growth?
Your withstanding all the trauma your Mum caused over the move..... and the legal trouble with your credit?
I'm just saying. This is duck soup..... compared to where you were a year ago: )
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Tay,
I absolutely vote for renting the truck, taking everything (and leaving M with friends or neighbors while you do it). Then you can be done with it and her. There will be no more stress for you and no reason for her to contact you.
You have made such great strides these past few weeks!!! You are sounding so much stronger and clearer. I think you will feel better the more you distance yourself from her and the games. M will settle down, too, when he doesn't have to try to figure out how to play the game between you two. It's a child's nature to try to manipulate- it is not a bad thing - it is survival. But having a steady environment will help both of you. When he knows that YOU are the guardian and the one to trust and look up to, he will be calmer and happier. He needs limits, and I am guessing at this point he doesn't know what those are for him.
(((((((Tay))))))
Love, Beth
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Lighter, thanks. I sometimes wonder how I get up in the morning, and I look back and think, how did I ever live that way?
I know it's a ruse. I know it's an excuse to get me out there, alone, so she can rail and rage at me. I don't want that.
How about I just have a bonfire? And set it all on fire?
Beth, do you know M hasn't been much of a problem, other than the hand incident, lately? He's been doing his homework without much fuss. He's taking care of his rat, er hamster. He's been helping when I ask. I'm stunned. He hasn't said a word about seeing grandma or talking to her. The most I heard was that he wanted to go get some stuff. He doesn't talk about his feelings much, no matter how hard I try. My mother said the last time she saw him, that he seems stressed all the time. I was watching him last night thinking, "I don't think he's ever seemed so normal." He doesn't seem stressed at all, maybe a little, over the school stuff, but other than that, not really.
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Maybe you could post a list for M to add to..... things he really misses. Things you will retrieve. You can refer to the list and think/talk about what space will need to be cleared to receive them. Make editing decisions about what needs to go in order to make room, if anything.
Make a list for yourself, as well. Maybe you get just those things..... while babbling somewhat coherently about something your mother would be speechless about?
I really hate to think of you being verybally knocked about for any length of timel. It costs so much.... for so long.
Nice you can see concrete changes in M during this break.
I think it'll help you continue to make decisions with clarity and less stress and doubt.
Confusion and guilt suck.
M flourishing.....
is a good thing: )
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How sweet to hear, Tayana. Now that you are together without M's influence, you will be able to build so much more together. As for the hamster... that is great for him to have responsibility and someone to love. My daughter has taken over all the guinea pig duties and I am very proud of her and she is very proud of herself. My son has the dog duties (and doodies). When we were little, my parents bought us all kinds of animals. I was not responsible (had never learned to be) and I remember one day looking into the lizard's cage and realizing he was on the verge of starving to death. I still have nightmares about it. I dream there is a room of starving and dirty animals and I cannot get to them. It is no fun to have a pets when there are so many (we had a house full) and you have not learned to care for them. Gosh - what a memory your post provoked. Sorry - I didn't realize how scary that was for me.
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Oh Beth, I'm so sorry that was a trigger for you. I never took care of my pets growing up either. I had cats, but they were never in the house. I did take care of the dog my mother got for me, and then he became her dog. Then I heard how she had to take care of it, but she forgot that I'd been the one to train him. I'd been the one brushing and grooming him. I walked him. He just slept on the bed with her.
Lighter, I"ve been going to do something like that. Make a list of the stuff I really want and make an effort to get it. usually when I go out there, I'm so tired and drained that I don't feel like loaded up the car, and I really don't feel like unloading it when I get home. Any time spent out there means enduring her verbal abuse. One time I went out there and she was actually pretty pleasant, I was even enjoying myself. I took the dog out and was going to say something about some silly thing he'd done. When I came back in she just unloaded on me about this pair of shoes she bought for M that he hasn't been wearing, and after that she started in about drawing names at Christmas, even though we'd already decided not to do that. It's kind of silly to draw names between five people. For about ten minutes it went on, and after that I decided it was time to go. I just loaded up the car and said good bye. I couldn't handle anymore, and then I went home and tried to lie down for a little bit, but she kept calling me. It was like I couldn't get away no matter what I tried. Just awful. That's the way any visit goes. Although I took M to a carnival at the church, and she was so sweet and pleasant it was unreal. She was just so pleased that I'd taken him to this church event.
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Heavens.... I get the feeling she's like a spider sitting on your stuff.... waiting for you to come near.... so she can pounce :shock:
Part of me keeps wishing to see you post that M stopped talking about his stuff... you no longer miss anything and she can have it all, good riddance.
So unfair that they're so awful one should be driven to the limits of giving up property and rights just for some peace, huh?
But.... they'll never give you peace, no matter what you do.
It makes me dizzy when I really focus on what's inside of them.
The forces that drive them......
truly...
very dizzy.
I remember when I thought I was strong enough to take on anything... thought I could win too.
After losing my share of battles.... I know the difference between a battle.....
and a lost cause.
I'll save my energy for the battles, if I can; )
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Tay,
I am grateful you brought back that memory because it has been haunting me for a long time. I needed to face it and say it out loud.
Your mom was probably happy about the church event since she feels it makes her look good. My mother called to thank me for going to my uncle's wake. She didn't go because they were on vacation and she said she wanted to go home (they were in the area). I told her I couldn't understand why she was thanking me since I didn't go for her - I went for me so that I could see my uncle and say good bye. I also enjoyed seeing all of my relatives I haven't seen in a long time. She thought I was doing her a favor by taking her place and making her look good. It pissed me off.
Love, Beth
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Hi Tayana,
Doesn't it just figure she would read it as Godless Bless rather than Goddess, even if it wasn't Celtic script. Was your Wiccan practice solitary? I vote for the truck, too. Pehaps invoke some protection for yourself by visualizing yourself as covered with sacred oil thus totally unable to be caught by any webs. Keep going, we're pulling for you.
Beth,
Oh, BLEH as Ami would say. That funeral thing is so my mother- I've had similar circumstances.
cats paw
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Thanks ((((((cat))))))))))))
Nice to have you around :) Missed you.
Love, Beth
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Lighter, that's sort of how I look at her, as a big, bloated spider waiting for me to step into her trap. I am almost to the point of saying, she can have it all. I don't want it. I'll just go buy us each a new winter coat, and she can keep all the rest of the crap. I just don't want to see her, especially after what I heard she pulled tonight.
Beth, I'm glad remembering that was helpful. And you're right, she likes it when I do things like that because it makes her look good. I won an item at the church's silent auction, a floral arrangement, not a big deal. I'd made arrangements to pick it up and before I went M and I were going to drive out and see how to get to camp. I ended up getting lost, so I called her to let her know we'd be there but later than I though. I asked if she could just go out to the church and pick up my item and I'd pay her later. She was only ten minutes away. I was in the middle of nowhere. She made a big deal out of it and told me she couldn't go because her hair wasn't done and she'd have to change clothes. She wasn't going to get all dressed up just to go out there. I finally got back to civilization, and i decided I was just going to go get the thing myself. I didn't want to go through all of the trouble of trying to make other arrangements. It would have been so much easier if she would have just gone out there for me. Then she got made because I was late.
I'm not at all surprised by your funeral story. That's something my mom would do.
Cat, I was a solitary practitioner. I developed my own rituals and everything. One of the reasons my roommate and I got along so well was because we had these secrets from our parents. She hadn't come out to her parents, and I never told mine that I was a witch. I've let my practice lapse though. I spent a lot of time at my parents' house doing things to make it feel like a safe place. I haven't done that here, maybe I should. Hmm. I'll have to think about that. I like your idea about the sacred oil. That's a great image.
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::happily picturing tay cleansing her apt with burning sage::
Sacred space, tay.
I think that's a wonderful idea: )
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Dear Tayana,
I always thought of my M as a "spider' too. I think that the N mother has "spider like' qualities. Ami
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LIghter, I think it's a wonderful idea too. I might have to do it this weekend. :)