Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board

Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: axa on October 19, 2007, 12:40:27 PM

Title: And the learning!
Post by: axa on October 19, 2007, 12:40:27 PM

The past week has been rough for me.  I choose to contact with XN and have had a sense of being recontaminated.  Nobody made me........... all my own doing.

I got a loving text from Xn's D, which I have not replied to.  I wanted to "talk" out my feelings about it here.  After my conversation with her I became aware of how easily I got sucked into the pseduo intimacy with her, the giggling, the stories etc.  My desire for that connection even though my experience has been that it is dangerous place for me to go.  The ease with which I abandon my own feelings of betrayl and hurt to soothe her lack of healthy parenting.  I played my role superbly.  I was soft, funny and encouraging.  But that was not what the call was meant to be about.  I remembered how easily I pushed away my feelings to play the role of rescurer in the past.

And where does that leave me.  Well, aware that I still am working/living from a place of old wounds.  Willing to betray my hurt child to be the "loving" one in the eyes of another.  I NEED TO DO SOME GROWING UP HERE. 

I have decided that the person I am responsible for is myself.  I need and want to set a strong clear healthy boundary because it is how I can demonstrate healthy love for myself.  The consequences of that boundary are what they are but the important thing is that this is MY boundary which I am not willing to play games with it. 

I will email D and set out clearly why it is not a good idea for me to have contact with her.  I will tell her I wish her the best in her life, which I do and get on with my own life.  I need to put the past in the past and engage with where I am now.

As far as my son is concerned I need to trust that he has experienced love from his father and I which will enable him to deal with the hurt he encounters in his life and provide a soft place for him to retreat to if that is what he desires.  And stop trying to control his life (Axa shouting at Axa)

Maybe I needed to make the contact I did to act on my boundary from a loving place rather than a place of anger.  I do have feelings of love for her but they are my feelings but my well being, right now, is my priority.

Many many thanks for the support and challenges from you all,

Axa

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: Ami on October 19, 2007, 12:52:57 PM

Dear Axa,
  You sound very confident .You sound like you reasoned out the situation very well. I am very happy that you came to a conclusion that you can live and thrive with.                   Love   Ami

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: lighter on October 19, 2007, 01:18:28 PM

Withdrawing from people with love , is still withdrawing.

I think it's easier on us to do it that way but it's harder for the ones we withdraw from, bc it's not always clear to them that what we're doing.

If we're kind.... we feel less distress in the moment but.....

What's that saying....? ::Snapping fingers:: 

"the kind cut is the stinkiest cut"

Yes, that's it.

Best to just say what you mean and mean what you say.... then you don't have to go back and try to remember what went on, it's what you're about. 

I can see you texting back to her a message that lets her know that the time for your relationship is past.

You're not going to be available for communications and you wish her well.

You've already explained yourself, I'm sure, in the past.  That's all done.

That's all you need to say, IMO. 

Sounds like you've made sense of the confusion, at any rate. 

Well done: )

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: axa on October 20, 2007, 06:52:01 AM

Lighter,

I see to have the ability to make everything a long drawn out process.  Quick and clean has not been my way but maybe it is the better way.  I have such difficulty in letting go.  Wonder about there being something about releasing myself from the pain, the pain being familiar and also a distraction from living like an adult.  The pain and contact keeps me in a place of stuckness.  I seem to operate from two levels, the adult one who has great clarity but is overridden so often by the shamed child who clings.  OH NO another thing I realise I am so clingy.  Like anything is better than nothing.  The gratitude for the crumbs, the expectation of nothing less.  I wonder is the pattern of my life the way it is because all I did ask for was crumbs and that was all I got.   Wanna a big fat cake for me now but holding onto that and knowing that I deserve it is so much part of the stuggle. 

I went to a lecture recently, it was given by a theologian, who looked at the audience and said in a loud strong voice "you are my beloved" it just touched my heart and brought tears to my eyes.  I do not feel or know this.  I do not feel beloved on this earth.  I know there are people who care about me very much.  I have evidence of it here but I do not feel it.  I do not feel worthy.  I feel defended and hiding with shame.  How to know I am beloved?

Thank you for your consistent challenging and caring advice.  I don't know how old you are but sometimes I feel like you are a loving Mom!!!!!

xxxxxxxxxx

axa

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: lighter on October 20, 2007, 06:58:33 AM

Axa..... uh... wait....::going to get coffee::

brb, lol.

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: lighter on October 20, 2007, 07:41:31 AM

Axa:  Sometimes I can see it so clearly.

And sometimes I do just choose not to open my mouth, pick up the phone.... respond to someone's request for help, input, whatever......

and it feels so.......

it feels so awkward.

I guess we're wired to facilitate and help and respond and nurture.

Not sure why but we are and it's going to take some practice to transfer that to ourselves.

I guess we could say...... if you aren't feeling terrible discomfort..... you're doing it wrong.

It's not comfortable to change habits.

That's one thing you can count on, get used to and look forward to changing, so it doesn't remain so alien.


It's get's easier.

I picture someone in my head, who I used to think was selfish, and attempt to emulate.

I also sometimes think the words....'blink blink" in the most awkward moments, so my mouth doesn't come alive and begin sputtering thing to take the pressure off me and the moment.

My response IS... ::blink blink::  and I am not rising to the challenge, up for a go or ready to throw myself at the feet of another un winnable (is that a word, lol?) situation.

The underdog is going to have to learn to fight.

The loner is going to have to learn some new social skills.

The struggling mother of 5, with money worries, is going to have to start making some smart choices and digging herself out.

I CAN'T do it for them. 

No matter how I try.

I'll fail.

Again and again.

Trying may make ME and them feel better in the moment but.....

I've done no one any favors by extending false hope.

I'm not "the fixer"

I'm not trained to do this work.

I'm not going to succeed, no matter how hard I try......
to save anyone from themselves.

That's reeeeaaaaaaaalllly something to make peace with, don't you think?

Once we've wrapped our minds around that.... and it's a very complex idea, not to be taken lightly.....

it gets easier to see what we should be focusing on.

And that's scary as hell....  bc we've never done it with any consistency before.  It's something we do when it's soooo painful to stay where we are.... we must. 

Not by choice, but bc the pain of NOT doing it is worse than the pain of DOING it, lol.  ::sigh:: 

Wow.... so then, after we get through the worst of it.... we're not in so much pain any more and what's to keep us from continue on that path?

Let's face it?

 Nothing.

What keeps us on the path...... what's usually our catalyst, up to this point, is pain.

You're witnessing, up close, exactly how it's done when we repeat our primal patterns.

You see why we do it, bc we're not comfortable NOT doing it and you're facing the continued challenge of making better choices and saying NO to familiar situations that beckon like a mama calling to us.

But it's not mama calling.

It's not going to go well.

It's not something we can turn around, champion and win, this cause we so want to make turn out differently this time.

It's just the same trap that keeps us mired and lost and leads back to the painfilled catalyst of taking the path we struggle to stay on, once we find our way.

Remaining on the path has it's own challenges and they're NEW challenges.

We don't even recognize them as challenges yet, so new they are.

The fact that the BIG pain has subsided doesn't mean it's all gone. 

I think we're trying to wriggle free of it all the time, and our old coping strategies start to creep. 

We're feeling strong, after all.

We've grown so much..... learned to do so much better.

We can handle it right?

Oh Lord.... is this what alcoholics go through too?

The human condition?

The slip back into familiar?  The loss of the new path, new habits, new choices?

Seduced, ever so slowly, convinced it's NOT what it seems to be..... bc we're beyond it now?

But it's the same and when we step off the path.....

there be monsters.

We can't save people from themselves.  We should accept that.

We should take saving ourselves more seriously, for that's what it is we risk.

We should realize that the kind of struggle you're experiencing now..... is a very real threat.... alarms should be sounding.... red flags should be waving!!!!

Will we recognize it next time?

For ourselves?

For you?

Do we understand what it is you just did?

Stepped off the path and back toward the monsters.....?

Away from youself?

Turning your back on the only person you can save?

You.

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: Iphi on October 20, 2007, 04:04:53 PM

axa you wrote,

Quote

How to know I am beloved?

I never thought I would tell anyone this but back in the darkest days when I was very alone and oppressed, living with Ndad, I had this internal realization:

I am the lover, the loved one and the love.

You are the lover, the beloved and the love itself.

It is something in our souls.  Listen for it and experience it.

Reading this topic and remembering that first realization made me go look for Rumi, today. I am almost positive he said it as well.  I know I read it elsewhere in the world.  Then I found a page on Rumi and it seemed to me that you would love so many of the thoughts translated there, which are totally Water of Life imo, that I'm just going to post the link:

http://peacefulrivers.homestead.com/Rumipoetry1.html#anchor_16452

With the Beloved's water of life, no illness remains
In the Beloved's rose garden of union, no thorn remains.
They say there is a window from one heart to another
How can there be a window where no wall remains?
Translator: Shahram Shiva

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: Bella_French on October 20, 2007, 04:27:50 PM

Dear Axa,

I'm wired to nurture too! I am like a nurturing robot, and it just seems to kick in whenever I sense the need in another living creature, lol. So i can totally understand your response to XN-D.

But I like being me. And I prefer the company of nurturing, sensitive people, and no doubt so do our loved ones and friends.

I think this is the main reason why I have no contact with N's as much as possible. I believe that the only way to really cope with them without being abused and manipulated is to play their game, and be one step ahead of them. For me, that translates into being manipulative, uncaring and , (worse!)  holding back my very nature.

What it boils down to, is its not who I want to become. I can choose the personality traits i want to develop and my Machiavellian side is not one of them right now, lol. Not for the sake of friendship, in any case. Friendship is a place where I want to be safe and relax, rather than treat it like a business transaction with a Nigerian.

Wishing you the very best and I hope you will be able to find the closure you need with this, Axa. You have done well with all of this:)

X Bella

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: Ami on October 20, 2007, 04:39:59 PM

Dear Iphi,
  Could you explain Rumi's  poem more and how you received  it in your life?are you saying that within us is our ability to love ourselves and that is enough?
  Are you saying that we can be "enough" for ourselves?                                 Ami

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: Leah on October 20, 2007, 04:51:34 PM

Quote from: axa on October 20, 2007, 06:52:01 AM

Lighter,


I went to a lecture recently, it was given by a theologian, who looked at the audience and said in a loud strong voice "you are my beloved" it just touched my heart and brought tears to my eyes.  I do not feel or know this.  I do not feel beloved on this earth.  I know there are people who care about me very much.  I have evidence of it here but I do not feel it.  I do not feel worthy.  I feel defended and hiding with shame.  How to know I am beloved?

My Beloved is mine and I am His

He pours out His mercy
-all around me
He lavishes me with His love
-abundantly
He overwhelms me with His grace
–unconditional
I can never out give my Lord.

He is magnificent,
He is wonderful
He is compassionate,
He is kind
He is creator,
He is counselor
I am His and He is mine

" My beloved is mine, and I am his."

Song of Solomon 2:16a

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: Iphi on October 20, 2007, 05:26:45 PM

Ami in response to your questions - first maybe I'd better clarify about who Rumi was - he was a medieval poet and all of Rumi's poems are devotional poems about the love of god and his love for god, and god's love.   I hope I can explain - what I am saying is that we are lovers of god, beloved by  god and because of the all encompassing nature of that reciprocal love, we are the action of love, love is an action, a verb - the love itself.  We are the lover, beloved and the love.  To me, your pursuit of Truth is the pursuit of the beloved, so you are as the lover seeking the beloved.  But you also have said you have experienced the feeling of waves of love pouring down on you - you have experienced being the beloved child of god - you are both lover and beloved - the walls come crashing down - there need be no window where there is no wall - the distinction between lover and beloved is unimportant because it is 1:1 totally reciprocal - all there is now is the love itself.

Hmm probably that makes no sense!  Anyway, I always get a lot of refreshment, inspiration, freshness, solace and joy from Rumi. 

Leahsrainbow - love Song of Solomon! 

Title: Re: And the learning!
Post by: Leah on October 20, 2007, 05:49:08 PM

Quote from: Iphi on October 20, 2007, 05:26:45 PM

Leahsrainbow - love Song of Solomon! 

Me too, Iphi

Especially as the above Song of Solomon 2:14-17:   My Beloved is mine and I am His

Speaks of the church being Christ's dove; she returns to him.  Christ is the Rock, in whom alone she can think herself safe, and find herself easy,
as a dove in the hole of a rock, when struck at by the birds of prey. Christ calls her to come boldly to the throne of grace, having a great High Priest there, to tell what her request is.

Speak freely, fear not a slight or a repulse. The voice of prayer is sweet and acceptable to God; those who are sanctified have the best comeliness.

The first risings of sinful thoughts and desires, the beginnings of trifling pursuits which waste the time, trifling visits, small departures from truth, whatever would admit some conformity to the world; all these, and many more, are little foxes which must be removed. This is a charge to believers to mortify their sinful appetites and passions, which are as little foxes, that destroy their graces and comforts, and crush good beginnings. Whatever we find a hinderance to us in that which is good, we must put away. He feedeth among the lilies; this shows Christ's gracious presence among believers. He is kind to all His people. It becomes them to believe this, when under desertion and absence, and so to ward off temptations.

And a day of comfort will come after a night of desertion. Come over the mountains of Bether, the mountains that divide, looking forward to that day of light and love. Christ will come over every separating mountain to take us home to himself. 


M. Henry


That is the hope we have in Christ.


Love, Leah