Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Bella_French on October 20, 2007, 05:15:52 PM
-
If anyone is interested, I came across a great thread from a support group about caring for elderly parents, called `My Mom is a narcissist''. Its 80 pages long, and I have not read all of it yet, but what I've read so far is incredible.
http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/mikegamble/vpost?id=598188&trail=135
X Bella
-
Bella,
That is awesome --especially about the MIL and the stairs. What do they say about humor.? It has to have truth in it or it is not funny---bleh Love Ami
-
Bella,
Remarkable find - remarkable content!
Leah
-
Thanks Ami and LeahsRainbow; I'm glad you find it an interesting read too. Who would have thought such a thread could exisit? 80 pages is awesome.
I went digging around for it after N-mother called yesterday. Lol, its so funny: she has worked out that the guilt tripping isn't working on me at all, so she's decided that the problem is that I have a mental illness, demonstrated clearly by my lack of response to guilt tripping, lol. She even recommended a book, lol.
I actually feel quite cheered by this development. I might be able to to reduce contact down to a trickle, avoid conflict and drama about it, and she'll just put it down to my mental illness!!! This is total bargain, lol
X Bella
-
Bella,
It never ceases to amaze me how they (N's) immediately label us as having a 'mental illness' when the :idea: of truth regarding them switches on for us.
Oh, the amazing wonders of Projection!!
Love & Hugs,
Leah
-
Lol, The N's ability to project amazes me too, LeahsRainbow. I don't mind in this case, so long as it gets her out of my hair, lol.
love and hugs to you!
-
W :oW, Bella! That thread is a treasure trove and I've only just skimmed the surface. Amazing to me how many of these folks write of being cold-shouldered and ignored by N's who refuse to make first contact with them after they've stopped playing the old games.
If it's not on N's terms, it's not gonna happen... which is really great news for those of us who only want to be free of it!
Great resource... thanks so much!
With love,
Carolyn
-
Wow...started reading some of the posts from that link Bella posted.....Soooooo painful to read.....Sooo true what they wrote. I suppose on some level it is good to know there is actuall a name for it---NPD. But it's such a hopeless disorder! I was also reading how the N mother assigns roles to her children--the chosen one, the ignored one..etc. Just soooo unfair. The chosen one, who is typically also N, does all the damage and gets all the attention on top of it.
Anger, hurt, sadness, depression. I felt it all when I read it. It is my story too. So painful to know your own and only mother will never love and respect you. What really hit me was the person that said usually the sensitive or ignored child of an N mother repeatedly tries to go back and recreate the childhood they never had. I can so identify. Hard to accept that no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, you will never get it. You will never be cared about.
Thanks for the link Bella. Really on target information contained there.
-
Dear Carolyn and Sunblue,
Thankyou both for writing; I'm so happy you found some value in the thread too!. Some of the stories are so incredibly sad. My mother is still quite young, and it is so helpful knowing what kind of hell to prepare for emotionally in the future. I cannot think of a more torturous outcome for any child of an N, being raised without love, battling to gain some self esteem as an adult, and then being expected to go through the abuse all over again later on, to care for an elderly N parent.
Al of it resonated with me, but it pains me thinking of so many people going through it.
X bella
-
Wow.
Just, wow.
Thank you, Bella...
love
Hops
-
Wow...started reading some of the posts from that link Bella posted.....Soooooo painful to read.....Sooo true what they wrote. I suppose on some level it is good to know there is actuall a name for it---NPD. But it's such a hopeless disorder! I was also reading how the N mother assigns roles to her children--the chosen one, the ignored one..etc. Just soooo unfair. The chosen one, who is typically also N, does all the damage and gets all the attention on top of it.
Anger, hurt, sadness, depression. I felt it all when I read it. It is my story too. So painful to know your own and only mother will never love and respect you. What really hit me was the person that said usually the sensitive or ignored child of an N mother repeatedly tries to go back and recreate the childhood they never had. I can so identify. Hard to accept that no matter what you do, no matter how hard you try, you will never get it. You will never be cared about.
Thanks for the link Bella. Really on target information contained there.
Again, Thank You ((( Bella )))
....the sensitive child of an N mother repeatedly going back to the table hoping for a few crumbs of acceptance, kindness and love .... hoping to be cared about and thought of.
That part of me has died, thankfully, peace is mine.
Love & Hugs
Leah
-
Lol, its so funny: she has worked out that the guilt tripping isn't working on me at all, so she's decided that the problem is that I have a mental illness, demonstrated clearly by my lack of response to guilt tripping, lol. She even recommended a book, lol.
X Bella
I can't imagine getting strong enough to just let that roll off my back, but I know it can be done.
I've heard a story about a young woman, in California, who treats her probably N father like a slow child, she agrees with everything he says, even filling in some of the blanks for him, so familiar is she with his schtick.
"Yes, father...... you're the best and everyone knows it...... you definately have more toys and money than anyone else, yes, yes, yes." Then she rolls her eyes at anyone near..... and they continue on their way.
I guess it's tayloring your schtick to someone else's mental illness?
God bless you, bella ::shaking head::
What book did she suggest you read?
-
W :oW, Bella! That thread is a treasure trove and I've only just skimmed the surface. Amazing to me how many of these folks write of being cold-shouldered and ignored by N's who refuse to make first contact with them after they've stopped playing the old games.If it's not on N's terms, it's not gonna happen... which is really great news for those of us who only want to be free of it!
Great resource... thanks so much!
With love,
Carolyn
Hi (((( Carolyn ))))
Thinking of you today - hope you are able to put your feet up and enjoy resting some. :)
Oh yes, indeed a most timely treasure trove, and I too have only touched on relatively few pages (wow there are 80 pages!!)
and in particular, what you have highlighted in your post ....
..... being cold-shouldered and ignored by N's who refuse to make first contact with them after they've stopped playing the old games. If it's not on N's terms, it's not gonna happen...
is all too personally affirming and validating.
The truth is so freeing to know - that it happens universally!
Love & Hugs
Leah
-
Dear Bella,
My grandmother (mother's mother) and aunt (mother's sister) lived together all of their lives... horns locked in a codependent embrace with no perceivable emotional interaction. I saw the age-old battles for control reenacted time and again, much of the warfare taking place in passive agressive form... sad indeed.
It's so strange...sometimes there really seems to be no discernable victim... only a pair of co-conspirators, both more invested in temporal satisfaction - in playing the game... and to me that's a picture of existence vs. genuine life.
The other night I dreamt of my grandma. She had died, and her body was in my home, sitting upright in a chair... as though that's where her corpse would remain forever. That thought was horrifying! Suddenly she opened her eyes and closed her hand around my wrist and spoke words she never uttered in life... "I love you, Carolyn." That's an unspoken phrase in my entire very practically-minded, appearances-oriented family... and all I could think was - why now? - and that was the end.
As sad as people can be in their treatment of each other, and as neglectful as we can all be in sharing our true feelings with those we love, I think the saddest thing of all is to demand from others what we are not willing to give ourselves...
the truth. It pains me, too... but I know that the pain ends when "I love you" no longer means: "and so I will play your games with you."
With love,
Carolyn
Dear Leah,
Your peace is palpable. Thank you, Sister, for allowing me to share in such a gift!
No more crumbs for us, right? Hey, we have a banquet spread out before us in the presence of our... well, you know. : )
I just want you to know that your loving thoughts cross all the barriers into my shaky little heart and bolster me up! Thank you so much for thinking of me... and please know that I am matching those thoughts in my own prayers as I rejoice in this fine day! Tomorrow it's off to work I go, with high hopes and so thankful to be able to make a few dollars to cover all these extra expenses I'm incurring. God is so very good! This morning I'm putting on my full armor and my new Dr. Scholl's, so happy legs and feet are ready to dance all over any slippery serpents who try to trip me up. :D
Much love and hugs to you,
Carolyn
-
What a great thread to read . . .
I started reading from the first page, and I was struck by the following quote from one of the posters:
My mom has the "hypochondriac" angle. And I was always her parent and protector growing up. I learned at a young age to ignore a lot of it, just to be able to deal with her. But as I'm growing older, I find myself not able to ignore a lot of it anymore, and I'm angry. I feel horrible saying this, but I don't even want to be around her anymore. And luckily lately we had a bad argument and she hasn't returned any of my phone calls, to my deep hidden relief. I'm finally admitting, even though she is my mother, I am much happier without her in my life. She sucks the life out of me. She is vidictive, and controling, everything revolves around her and how she feels, and I'm just fed up with it.
I know this feling exactly. I feel so much better with no contact and not having to deal with her. I am very relieved, and I feel a little guilty about it. However, the depression and anxiety I normally feel hasn't been as bad as what I normally feel.
It amazes me how many people have parents like this. I read a statistic that said that something like 95% of families are dysfunctional to some degree. That's sad.
-
Certain Hope:
That was an incredibly powerful dream you had! I think the whole idea of saying "I Love You" in an N family is interesting. For some of us , we will never, ever hear those words. For others, we might hear the words, but they contain no meaning because the actions of the Ns demonstrate the complete opposite of "love". For me, I think it would (almost) be better to not hear the words and have that be the honest truth than have Nparents who say the words (in a non-emotional, non-sincere way, of course) and back up those words with abusive behavior.
Somtimes I think I should verbally tell my parents how much I love them because I know they will not always be here and because I think that's what a good daughter would do. But then I can't help but think how one-sided it is. They would never reciprocate and never have. My Nmom wouldn't appreciate it. She would just think, "Well, of course you do. I'm the Queen Mother. Everyone adores me because I'm special and superior." My co-dependent dad would probably appreciate it since he has gotten nothing from my Nmom in the way of appreciation or affection all these years. But I know too he has never reciprocated to me. I know that is selfish. But he has never picked out a birthday card or written me a letter or told me he is proud of me or anything.
So why do I always think in terms of making sure they know I love them?
-
I was reading some of the other posts on the thread related to Nina Brown's book about improving relationships with N partners. I didn't read that one but I did read her book about Children of the Self-Absorbed and though it was definitely one of the most helpful books on the subject for me.
Some of the posters were talking about their anger with their Nmom and dealing with that anger. It is sometimes hard to get to that place of acknowledging and expressing that anger, but I sure can understand it.
One of things that I find most sad regarding my own Nmom is that I can no longer look at her and think of her in a positive light. Many adult daughters (or sons) can acknowledge the wonderful things about their mom----she's great, she's warm and loving, she is generous and considerate. But after acknowledging the reality of having an Nmom, the truth is she's none of those things. But she is a whole lot of lousy things. It's hard to acknowledge to myself that if she weren't my mother, she's probably not the kind of person I would want to be or even to be with. I never, ever, ever thought that would be true of my mother.
My mother has hurt me soooo much, which I'm only now realizing. She caused me so much damage and heartache. She doesn't know how to love anyone. She doesn't care about anyone but herself and her N daughter (my sibling). And just once, just one time in her life, I would like to see her struggle. She has always been very lucky. Married to my extremely co-dependent dad and having an Ndaugher who emulates her, she has never wanted for narcissistic supply. She is the self-prescribed Queen and has always gotten what she's wanted. Meanwhile, I have struggled all my life, have had nothing but bad luck and am alone for all intents and purposes. I have no one to supply me with anything emotionally. So, while I wouldn't want anything bad to happen to her, I do sometimes wish she would struggle or come upon some bad luck in the hopes that she could experience what I always have. But I know that won't happen. Ns are lucky. Things go their way.
Oh well. I'm just venting. It's all so very heartbreaking. My Nmom was so neglectful of me emotionally. In many ways, she broke me.
-
I believe you, Sun...
I have struggled all my life, have had nothing but bad luck and am alone for all intents and purposes. I have no one to supply me with anything emotionally.
And when you are ready, you have a choice about this.
I have a litany of things, same old, but when you are ready to NOT be alone, when you are ready to bring love into your life by associating with loving people (and being certain you are one, too)...you can place yourself in their company regularly. It's that simple. You place yourself in the company of loving/healing people regularly. It changes your life.
A support group
A church covenant or other group
A volunteer group
A cause group
A therapy group
Become one of them. Stay with it, weekly. For a year. See how you feel.
Do you feel you might be getting to a point where you could do that? Shame to let your Nmother and Nsister continue to scald you every day, every time you have the simple human yearning to be part of loving community.
love to you,
Hops
-
Dear Hops,
You make good sense, yanno? :D (((((((((Hops)))))))))
Dear Sun,
Your mother sounds an awful lot like mine.... (((((((((Sun)))))))) I am so sorry. She only seems to be concerned with how things appear to be... the self-proscribed Queen, yes. And I know what it's like to feel so broken, but just now, finally, I'm learning to give myself the sort of care which she was incapable of offering. You can do this for yourself too, Sun... I am sure you can. It's very, very difficult to take the first steps in that direction, but once you do it's like a snowball rolling downhill... and hey, just picture N down at the bottom of that hill, being bowled over by the new you :D
Today I start my new part-time job. Wouldn't-ya-just-know-it? Got a voice mail from my mother yesterday. No way I was gonna return that call and have anything she said (or didn't say) be on my mind for the rest of the day/night/week. Not exposing myself to thoughts of her anymore is the very best way I can be a good, positive influence on my self! For the first time I was able to say aloud - I do not want to share anything with her - not positive or negative - about my own personal life. There's no sadness about it now -- that she doesn't know how much I've struggled with stuff lately or how many solid steps I've taken into good health and wellbeing...
There's just no sense of gap or loss that I can feel at this point...
It's as though she's a non-factor because now I know that she cannot take anything from me anymore. I can pray for her and wish her well but not ever again allow her into my inner heart... and that is freedom.
Much love to you,
Carolyn