Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: tayana on October 21, 2007, 11:55:26 PM
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M smacked his hand on the door jamb tonight. I know it hurts. I've done it several times. Apparently, he smacked it right on the nerve, so it did really hurt and it went numb.
M has a very low pain tolerance. Things most kids laugh off, send him into a full scale panic attack. So he had a major panic attack. I was in the shower when this happened. So I hurriedly got dried off and dressed, just in case the neighbors came to check out what was going on. I tried to look at it, but he wouldn't let me. I'm trying to get him calmed down, but he's not listening. He won't breathe, won't take a deep breath. I got him an ice pack, but that just make it hurt more. Finally, I got him calmed down enough for a bath. I kept trying to sympathize, but it wasn't working, because even though I know it hurt. I don't think it was that bad. I know he feels pain differently, but I was really close to losing it. Not to mention I had cramps so bad I could barely stand upright, and I was starting to feel like I was going to pass out.
Finally, I got him in bed and some Tylenol down him. I didn't scream at him. I explained that screaming wasn't going to make it feel better, that it just made me feel like screaming. He laid down in bed, then decide he was hungry, so he had some popcorn, then it was back to bed. He's finally calmed down, though not asleep, and I finally got to lay down with my heating pad.
No, I don't think that was one of my better moments of motherhood.
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Tayana-
What a tough experience. You were there for your child during a prolonged period of stress and pain, and tended to his needs even though you were hurting yourself. This is what a true mother does. You are a wonderful mom!
But the Pig Parent voice has to go- whatever says that you are no good, etc in your head is lying, and you prove that every day. So ignore that brainwashing and programming and get on with living and loving- you are a courageous loving person and mom and deserve respect and kudos!!!!
Love,
Changing
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I'm trying to think how I'd handle it any better..... any differently.
What could you do?
Feel differently about it?
Would that make you a better mother?
It sounds like you did exactly what you needed to do, for as long as you needed to do it.
Sometimes I raise my voice out of frustration.
Especially when I'm in distress and pain.
Tay.... you didn't handle that well.
OK?
You handled it great.
This was a very frustrating situation..... and being frustrated means you're pretty normal.
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Dear Tayana,
I think that this is an instance when you judged your "performance" by your M's voice in your head. I do it all the time. I am trying to 'notice" it and stop it. My M's voice is like elevator music in my head always telling me that I am selfish,ungrateful, don't measure up, don't know how to handle things,am incompetent, don't deserve anything etc etc.
I think that you handled the situation very well. I think that your M's voice in your head was judging your THOUGHTS-- not your actions.
I really am an ethical person who tries to do the right thing. However,my M's voice will ALWAYS tell me that I had the WRONG thoughts so I was bad. I think that this happened to you,tonight.Compost what does not fit.
M sounds very,very challenging,Tayana( to any mother) Love Ami
(((((((((((((((((((Tayana ))))))))))))))))))))))))))0
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Dear Tayana,
I think you did what any mother would do... If my kids are yelling/crying out of pain, I hold them... but, truthfully, if it goes on beyond that, I am quite firm and tell them to collect themselves. They do need to learn to do that to become self-sufficient.
I agree that you are probably criticizing yourslef from your mom's perception.
Give yourself a break, girl.
((((((Tay)))))))))))
Love, Beth
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Tay, hon...
Yo Mama's voice has whittled away at your self-esteem until you're in some danger of believing her.
But I believe in you.
Is there some part of you that recognized you really had done it well, when you posted this story here?
I hope so. Because it's obvious to me.
There is no perfect way to be M's mother!!!!!!!!!!
But stepping back from his toxic, toxic grandmother and claiming your own turf both as his mother and as a human being has been a hell of a start. Good going, keep going, this is NORMAL to have grand moments and tough moments and fun moments and blah moments.
We need an objective observer. I've got it.
Go ask Hammy how you did. She knows The Truth.
love!!
Hops
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((((((Tayana))))) I hope you and M both feel better today. I think that you've done so very well to bear up under all that stress and just be there for your son. Seems to me that our children often judge the severity of illnesses and injuries like that by our reactions, so we sure don't want to overemphasize the fairly minor stuff, you know? That wouldn't do anyone any good. The more nervous and anxious we get, they pick up on it and pretty soon everyone's spiralling outta control. Nipping that spiral in the bud is definitely the way to go, imo.
Love to you,
Carolyn
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Tayana,
When a kid loses it...a kid loses it. Period. I go through these episodes at least once a week (four kids under the age of 10). His hand is hurting but he is also learning how to handle his pain. Lots going on there. You were patient.....you tried all the obvious solutions. You calmed him with tylenol and calm assertive voice and all while nursing your own pain. Which by itself makes you a super hero. :) I have been there too....(back when my body wouldn't work, I did a lot of parenting from the floor. :) But we made it through.) In the end, your son had to work it out. And you helped him do that.
YOU ARE WONDERFUL! And you did the best that this situation would allow. And that IS absolutely enough! Perfection is in the process! Much love to you.
Poppy
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THanks for the encouragement. I don't know if I'm judging through my mom's eyes or not, but I don't think I did that well. I probably should have held him, but all I wanted was to look at his hand, and he wouldn't let me. And he was screaming at the top of his lungs, and that was making me feel worse, not to mention my anxiety went through the roof. I could feel it. I've been paying more attention to what's anxiety and what's really depression. I have a lot of anxiety.
Even after it stopped hurting, he wouldn't use the hand, and he basically shut down to where he wouldn't do anything for himself. This morning was just as bad. He won't use his hand. He wants someone to do everything for him. I asked him if it was aching and explained what that meant and he said no. It's not bruised or swollen, so I don't think it's anything other than he smacked it in just the right place to make it go numb, and it's bruised, just not showing a bruise yet. I'm getting tired of the helpless act too.
It's like he's milking the whole thing for all it's worth. I just . . . I don't know I think I should have been more comforting or something, even though holding and hugging him isn't going to make the hurt any less. I was more concerned that he'd hurt himself badly. I was even less sympathetic this morning when he couldn't put his clothes on because of his hand, couldn't eat his breakfast, couldn't do anything.
I was even less sympathetic when he got his jeans on and I discovered there was melted candy or gum or something that went through the washer. Ugh.
I know his hand couldn't be hurting that bad because he has these moments where I've caught him using it, and last night he was playing with the rat before he went to bed. Of course, he did get me up at least three times last night, including once at 3am to come in and tell me his hand was hurting again. I told him he was still going to school and that he needed to go back to bed.
I don't think I was very nice either.
Thanks Poppy. I didn't yell, although I was trying to get his attention through the screaming, we're talking as loud as could, top of the lungs panicking screaming here. My mom used to think I did something to him when he started that, but the truth was I didn't touch him most of the time. I was in the shower when this happened. I kept trying to get him to calm down, take deep breaths, and let me look at the hand. Sheesh. I was so glad to go to bed last night.
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Maybe some will disagree with me.........my nil's certainly would......but I think there are times when detachment, with love of course, is necessary with our kids. My 10 yr old will hurt his hand ( or something similar) and then start to distroy stuff. My 6 yr old ( who seems to be going through some kind of emotional development right now) will spill the juice or hurt himself and simply fall apart. Nothing I do or say will calm him. I just have to stay calm and explain that a bandaid and tylenol and lots of hugs are waiting when he is ready to calm down. Sometimes I think they need a little startle to help them find their own power in the situation. Then, we can poor on the hugs and the love. I think these moments are self care moments.....for us and for them. All the yelling gets to me too.....because what I am trying doesn't work and because at moments I NEED for them to calm down. Maybe this is where we can teach them that they have responsibility and ability to take care of themselves and when we take care of ourselves we model for them.
Pops
ps. My relatives would tell me I was awful, number one because I couldn't stop the crying, and number two because I didn't smother the kid with caretaking goo. They would push me out of the way and run to the rescue!!! All the while missing how they weaken the child.
pss. I am kinda going off on a tangent here.....sorry.....lots of old memories of interfering N's.
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PSSS. I don't think parents are suppose to be 'nice'. And if you know your kid is milking it....Dang....I am all about withdrawing the payoff. If it is attention they need, then they get it but only after they restore themselves to appropriate behavior.
My sil completely babies her kids. They milk her for all she is worth when things don't go right. She gets frustrated but always tries to be 'nice'. She sees herself as the perfect mother as she waits on them hand and foot. Now her kids are growing older and starting to become angry -- acting out at school and so forth. We on the board know what it is like to feel anger from powerlessness....I wonder is that is what is being cultivated here with this situation.
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Hmmmmm. Poppy.
Seems to me your IL's would give love and cuddles...... without discipline.
Disciplining is teaching, IMO.
Not molly coddling children so they don't have to feel.
Children don't know how to handle their feelings...... teaching them is our job.
When we are patient in the face of strain and chaos..... they learn what patience is.
If we fall all over them, trying to save them from bad feelings..... what have we taught them?
How to be saved?
How to avoid bad feelings?
That's not doing them any favors.
Also...... if we blow it and yell..... we can go back, identify what we think we did wrong, how to improve it, apologize and do better.
We teach our children through our mistakes, as well.
We don't have to beat ourselves up when we fall down.
Learning how to fail, apologize and do better is one of the most important lessons we teach our children.
Forgiving ourselves will help them learn to forgive their own little hearts.
PS... We aren't supposed to always be nice, you're right about that. I struggle with it too..... and have to remember that my job is teaching teaching teaching. When the boat rocks and we feel off balance and a bit out of control, parenting.... we just need to keep that course we set, when feeling stronger and more centered.... and hold to it. Things come back quickly if we do.
Calm and steady does it: )
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Pops, this is one of the things that my nmom has instilled in my son. When he doesn't feel good, is hurt, or anything where he feels down and out, she would baby him. So if he gets a sniffle, he forgets how to walk to the kitchen. If he's throwing up, he acts like he's dying. If he's got a fever, then I'm suppose to wait on him hand and foot. And if he hurts himself, I'm supposed to hold him and make it all better.
The problem is that he never learns to be self-sufficient. I can understand and appreciate that he feels pain differently. It's a trait of autism. I can sympathize. I can't handle that blood-curdling screaming that makes my stomach knot, my heart race, and makes me want to crawl into a corner, curl up in a ball, and cry. That's what I wanted to do last night. I didn't but I wanted to.
My mom always told me I was being cold and cruel when I would look at a paper cut, brush it off and say, "It's not bleeding." and act like nothing happened. My son think a paper cut is a cause to break out the gauze and bandage him up like a mummy. I reacted that way for minor bumps on the head, or something like last night, where I know it hurts, but there's nothing I can do, and hugging isn't going to make it better. I always hated that when something was wrong with M, he was treated like he was helpless, and now it's a learned behavior. He wants someone to take care of him, and I just keep encouraging him to do it himself. Or mostly, he'll say. "Get me a drink of water." I'll say, "Do you know where the kitchen is?" "yes." "Then get it yourself." He's more than capable of getting his own drink. He can pour his own glass of milk, juice, soda, etc. He can get his own snacks. He can operate the microwave. He is not helpless, and I"m tired of seeing this helplessness encouraged.
I have decided, perhaps foolishly, that since M doesn't seem to be capable of cleaning his room on his own, that we're going to do it together for a while. I'm hoping that if I do it with him and teach him how to do it, with a reward, that he'll learn to do things on his own, put things away when he's finished, and generally learn to take care of the chore on his own. I'm hoping that I"m not continuing this helplessness routine.
The helplessness my mom created has always made me very angry, and because I would get angry, I would react inappropriately to M, being harsher than I really intended.
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Tayana, My H grew up with all of that learned helplessness. He even felt guilty for drawing a salary in our first few years of marriage. Isn't that bizzare. I have decided that my mil needed that circumstance so she could always be needed and always feel like the one who saved the moment. It scares me how far she has gone and how many lives are weakened. I have seen my own strengths dwindle because I bought into the helplessness place too. Gack! It makes me sick to think about it.
My father always inspired independence and strength. He always handled pain stoically. Like one afternoon, he was working on the table saw and sliced part of his thumb off. He was a dentist and this pretty much ended his career. He didn't even flinch. He went in the basement dental stash and shot himself up with carbocaine and went to the ER.
When I was young and had an owie or had to have a medical proceedure done. He wouldn't react to any of my wailing. He didn't give much love either......thus my many issues........but he taught me that stuff hurts and I CAN handle it. This lesson prepared me for my future when I would spend many years in almost constant pain. I handled it. Just fine. My H couldn't. My IL's couldn't. My H withdrew in helplessness and his family came to rescue. Even when I didn't want them to. I would tell them I was fine. They simply couldn't believe me and would tell me how I really felt. They couldn't believe that it was really fine. But it really was. They would punish me into being helpless. It was psycho! And led to many undersireable consequences. I miss my old independent self. And I want my kids to know how capable they are and what they can handle and what they can acheive. I think this is the realm where self trust and self esteem grows and strengthens and takes root.
I am so glad you are recognizing what you M did to your son .... and to you. You are saving both your lives.
Pops
ps. Don't autistic kids do their best when they are taught and allowed to shine in their capability?
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Tayana - I've just read your first post and not any replies. I think it was a stellar experience of mothering. Part of mothering must take into account your limits as well. Stretched and stressed you did not take your own anxiety out on M but you found a way to sooth and comfort him. How you handled it did not meet your standards but your standards do give you any room to consider your human limitations. I think you did very well!
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I just wanted to ask a question that relates to Tayana's topic.
I was always put in my room and just left there when I was sick.I would have done anything for comfort and "babying". Now,I am seeing a different side of it.Maybe babying isn't so great?
It just struck me as "How could babying be bad?".I guess that I got one opposite and there is another opposite.
I always nurtured my sons when they were sick.I was comforting and nurturing with them and they don't have issues with sickness as I do.
If I had one wish it was ( and still is) to be comforted when I am sick. I never had it.If I got a drop of care,it was like a mountain moved. My M would usually be angry .
Just wanted to say that it surprised me that s/one could get too much babying. I guess it sounds silly to say that,but that is what I thought(think?) Love Ami
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Pops, that learned helplessness is so awful. My mom tried to instill that in me for so long. "You'd never be able to make in on your own on your salary." So I always felt like I needed a better job, even though I liked the job I had. I finally had to quit that one because I couldn't stand my new boss. "You have no idea what it takes to run a household." Actually, I did have a pretty good idea. I had been on my own in college. I made sure to go to school away from home, so I did have an idea what kind of bills they were, and I could sort of budget based on that. However, anytime I thought of having my own place, she would start in with all of that, and finally I just stopped talking.
My experience, at least with M, is that he does best when things are presented in a very positive manner. I did my best to tell him all of the positive things about moving, and my mom told him all the negative things, even to the point of saying I'd go off and leave him alone while I went to the grocery. So he was hearing mixed messages. It's not so much that he's incapable, only that he thinks differently and so sometimes things have to be presented or handled a little differently. Like camp, he was afraid to go to camp as long as he thought he had to spend the night. He was afraid to stay away from home, but once it was presented differently, then he wanted to go. And he was afraid to do some of the activities, but I talked to him and to the teachers, and he actually did all of the activities. He didn't sit out a single one, and he'd been afraid of doing a couple of them. It's all about attitude, and if I can be positive, then he's generally positive. I think that's the key. The only problem is that I have a hard time being positive about everything.
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Ami, my mom didn't baby me much when I was sick. In fact, in the last ten years she's been pretty angry when I"ve called in for the flu or something like that. I don't really remember how she was when I was younger. I think when I was a teen, she just left me home and went off to work.
I think there's a fine line between too much comfort and not enough. I think that when a child gets to do things he would never get to do otherwise, that it crosses the line. My mom never allowed M to have toys in the living room, unless he was sick, then she would let him. She wouldn't let him eat or drink in the living room, unless he was sick. Even if he felt good enough to go get a snack, she would rush to get it for him, serve him and treat him like a little princeling. I think that's too much babying.
To get a drink if M asks, or a snack if he asks in a respectful way is one thing, but when he says, "I need some water here," and waits for me to get it, while I have fifteen balls in the air, that's too much, at least for me. I know where you're coming from. And I've been really sick and wished my mom would comfort me a little, but I think the comforting went way to far with M.
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GS, thanks! I really appreciate that vote of confidence.
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I think there is a big difference between caring too much and not caring enough. I also think there is a big difference between truly caring for the sake of someone else and caretaking for the sake of self or in the N's case to maintain the smoke and mirrors of the illusion. The Truman Show is the perfect example.....at least in my case. I don't think that illustration applies to everyone. But, I know when someone cares about me....even imperfectly and when someone's caring isn't about me at all.
I also think that doing for someone, even a child, what he or she can do for themselves is a disservice. It weakens them. It is the whole problem with many welfare systems. Not inspiring self sufficiency.
Ami, I think the way you loved your boys when they were sick sounds fine to me. My parents left me alone. Sometimes when I am sick now, I really just want to be alone. Loving someone and serving someone according to needs and wants. And having the ability to discern or listen to what those are -- That is the key.
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Oh Lord, Poppy ::sigh::
Now I guess I have to put the kids into the car (naked) in the mornings if they don't perk up and get dressed on time, lol?
I usually end up doing it all for them bc they're so darned slow.... and I always loved doing for them when they were babies... I admit it.
I know I have to draw the line and begin letting them do what they can for themsleves, it's just as you say....... intellectually I know that.
This is a timely thread: /
Any more ideas on getting children to do more for themselves.... chores etc?
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God doesn't care take us. Can you imagine God being 'nice"? God handles the things we can't do for ourselves....like see past present and future and having all the power in the universe. It is why we pray. And, if your a Christian, it is why their was a Savior provided....to conquer the stuff we couldn't on our own -- death and sin. But He put us down here to learn! To have the experience away from Him. To learn to choose and hopefully to choose well and to learn to be righteous in independent ways. He doesn't take away our consequences and pain but he teaches and teaches and teaches. He comforts and guides and heals.
I think it is the same for our kids. We love the guts out of them and take care of all the stuff they can't do all the while teaching them until they can. We repeat ourselves a lot. Sometimes we do it for them -- many times. Just to get through the day or to be somewhere on time. I don't think that instills helplessness. It is modeling. I think it shows them HOW to pick up the pace and get to the church on time. But we don't do their homework for them. We don't or can't save them from pain. We shouldn't protect them from needed consequences. If they cheat at school, we walk them to the principles office. And we are there waiting when they get out with comforts and sometimes tough love. Sometimes we let them pick themselves up when they fall. Have you ever seen your kid get hurt and only start crying when you show the "concerned face"? It is why mom wasn't always allowed to accompany the child in the dentist chair. The kid behaves better when mom doesn't hover. I think it important to have high expectations. I think children will only ascend as high as we point.
Two examples: 1) My sil's boys came to visit. They said " I want a drink". I pointed them to the child cups next to fridge. They were upset that I wasn't doing it for them. I pointed them to the cups. You know, they never went to get a drink. They just sat on the floor in front of the TV and pouted. ::shaking head:: My sil would have said, " oh no, don't get up sweetie, I will get it for you."
2) I dated a guy in college who, during his senior year in high school, jumped into a child's ball pit and broke his neck. He was told he would never walk again. When I met him, he WAS walking with two canes and by the time we graduated he was down to one. He took me to his physical therapist who was a total bad***. He was big and buff and hard. He scared me to death. When my friend would fall, he wouldn't help in any way. Not a word of sympathy or encouragement. He might even call out his weakness or walked away. My friend had to pick himself up over and over. That is how he got strong. His body got strong and his mind got strong too. That is how he learned to walk again. It was the NOT helping that built the skills. He was there with love and encouragement but only after the goal was met. He gave my friend what he couldn't do.....but wouldn't touch what he had to do himself.
I am not saying we all become drill sargaent parents. I just think that truly understanding the vision of proper balance can really benefit our kids.
PS. Lighter, why not put the kids in the car naked? Bet they'd be ready the next day. It is Love and Logic, baby!!
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sorry....stepping off the soapbox......
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Ya know.... Poppy.
The girls kick it into gear when I say I'm going to put them in the car naked.
They beleive me and I have an unbreakable rule that I'll do what I say, if I threaten it, lol.
I would if I had to and maybe tomorrow I give fewer warnings before the naked in the car threat comes out of the toolbox.
It's the little one I have more trouble with and she'd have an hour, in the back of the car.... to remedy her problem; )
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You are a good mom, lighter! Your babies are lucky!