Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Poppy Seed on October 24, 2007, 04:10:49 PM
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I got this letter from my NMil in the mail yesterday. It was a one paged typed attempt at niceness. It was cold and removed and I could tell she was scared to death. She explained to me my feelings and then told me not to contact her with any response. Because my way of communcating was so "different" than hers. My H argued with her on the phone the other night because she thought I caused my H's addiction.....but then she remembered that he had been dealing with it since he was 7. She could only conceed that I brought destructive things to the marriage which were equally damaging to him and his struggles and which made problems worse. My H argued that everybody has junk in the trunk and that he couldn't accept her interpretation of why we split up. He defended me beautifully until she cut him off and pretended not to hear.
I think this letter was an attempt to prove to my H that she was empathetic. It felt plastic and hollow and void of love. I don't think she cares about me at all. I think she cares about how she appears.
She said she read a book, finally, about addiction and called herself a victim of it. To me!! TO ME!! Then she listed all the emotions that I must be feeling and conceeded that maybe it was a hard marriage for me and that maybe I was more patient and loving than she had previously thought. Then she said that I was not to contact her with a response. ANd that she would not be looking into the past to understand anymore of why "things" happened.
I don't even know what my response would be. I don't spose I have anything to say.
She then sent another email to my H. As if to say that because she sent the letter, everything should now be alright now and hinting that the letter should restore her in our eyes. And my H called me shaking his head and saying over and over "She just doesn't get it".
All I could think was what my T said about wanting to counsel the worst kinds of patients over N's because N's will never get it.
I think that I am so excited that these things are happening because my H is seeing her in action and believing me after all this time. I am starting to feel a sense of relief that he is seeing past all the lies and the outside sugar- coating of this fam system. If he can see it, then we have hope!! That feels good to me.
Thanks for letting me share.
Poppyseed
PS. The other night my H blurted out that his family was just like "the Truman Show" movie. Is anybody familiar with it? We sat there and laughed at all the similarities. Funny thing is, The Truman Show is his mother's favorite movie. Interesting...........
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First off.... how can the Truman Show be anyone's favorite movie?: /
Second.... thank goodness you husband sees his mother for what she is.... without your having to point it out and tarnish yourself in the process.
That does inspire hope....doesn't it?
Third. I'd keep the letter and refer back to it, from time to time, when I needed a reminder of what she's shoveling.
Blaming you.... not wanting to look into any history or reasons (that might have to do with her or her son's childhood) trying to talk him into believing you're the one and only cause for his every trouble..... trying to convince him of some alter reality.
Just nuts.
What does he think should happen at this point?
Is he still trying to have a relationship with them, no matter the cost?
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He is not trying to build the relationship....frankly, I don't think he has crossed that bridge yet. I think he still has hope that he can "teach" them out of it. Or that if he tells his truth that they will "see". He himself has been voiceless for so long. I think that he feels he needs to say IT and needs to say IT to them. It is just now that he is starting to realize the futility of the exercise. I think he needs to really see and feel it before he find closure to it. I don't think he fully appreciates the cost.
I can't keep the letter. I put it through the shredder.
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Dear Poppy,
A really 'icky" feeling hit me about your MIL.I think that she is a "People of the Lie". I think that you are the targeted scapegoat so everyone can go back and be 'nice" together.
As much as you want your H to get it and I hope that he does,you are in an "evil" environment( the larger family). I would watch my own back--first.I would let your H really prove to you that he will have your back before you 'trust" your emotional welfare to him(inside your own heart)
I feel great evil in that family.You are targeted to be the sacrifice to their "evil". Compost whatever does not fit,for you Love Ami
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A really 'icky" feeling hit me about your MIL.I think that she is a "People of the Lie". I think that you are the targeted scapegoat so everyone can go back and be 'nice" together.
As much as you want your H to get it and I hope that he does,you are in an "evil" environment( the larger family). I would watch my own back--first.I would let your H really prove to you that he will have your back before you 'trust" your emotional welfare to him(inside your own heart)
I feel great evil in that family.You are targeted to be the sacrifice to their "evil". Compost whatever does not fit,for you Love Ami
AMi
Is that a title of a book? I think I need to read a few of these books. I am feeling stronger now and more able to receive the information. I want to trust him.....but it is really hard because I think he is a "people of the lie" also. Although I am sure his not an N. He is just so programmed to think his mother and his family are perfect. He lives in denial. It is the family mode. And it is extremely hard for him to see into the things that aren't there.....so to speak. I keep telling him or showing him how the scapegoating happens. I don't think he gets it fully. It is weird. We talk. And he says the right words. But sometimes my gut tells me to beware. It is all I have.....my gut instincts. My H looks so good and sounds good just like his family. But he is really growing and changing too.
It is not a safe place for me. And I feel that every day. Alright, perhaps it is safer than it was. But I still don't feel like I have a soft place to fall. It is a place of extreme confusion. How can a person smile and be affectionate and still inspire so much distance and feel unengaged at the same time. I have been praying about it for months and my answer seems to be "wait". So......I am waiting. And in the meantime practicing my NC as much as is possible. And learning how to detach from my H and strive for intimacy and trust at the same time. I feel that he is trying to be as authentic as he can be today. I feel that I am on the other side of a big gulf and it really hurts to be there. But.....onward we go......
Ps. Not composting anything. xo
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That is sweet about not composting anything.I hope that it does not come down to your basic integrity and "survival" emotionally or THEM(including him) . Just keep watching ,as you said.. God will lead you if you ask Him to show you the way( and listen--bleh). Love Ami
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Wow, Pops.
I hope you don't even wonder if that letter was as bad as you remember it... then doubt.
I also don't envy your husband the pain and frustration he's in for.... regarding his FOO.
They'll never give an inch.... they just menauver and keep requesting and requiring and trying to shuffle everyone back into rank and file.
The pressure and discomfort are so......
relentless.
Yes, Relentless.
Still, a very good word.
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Hello Poppyseed,
I've been reading, but have just stated posting again. That's a tall order, to be detached from your H but to strive for intimacy and trust at the same time.
How often do you and your H get to spend time together, just the two of you, without kids, and without talking about issues? When was the last time you had some plain old silly fun together ?
cats paw
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Well Catspaw, we try to have the silly - fun. We traditionally don't go on vacations --- for various reasons. But this year, we commited to more dates and have been blessed with a few out of town adventures. We try to have time alone every night after the kids are in bed. Most of the time we read our scriptures and work books and talk about our "stuff" (IE: his 12 steps and my Beattie book). We try to pray together. We try to be active in sport and other pursuits. Sometimes there will be a zen moment where we can laugh at something without it being forced or without it feeling like we are trying. Sometimes, I think we have so much in common. And other times, I feel we are worlds apart. But, I feel more respected now and I am working through my pain. Most of the time, I feel really alone and don't have any idea how to bridge the gap. And I am tired. I have been "bridging" for so long. Kinda want him to do some bridging for a while. But he can't really, until he figures some stuff out. He knows how to caretake and resent it. He knows how to be taken care of. But I don't think he has any idea of what healthy intimacy is. Not even on his radar. I am learning that he responds more when I am detached. But getting my needs met in the marriage feels so far away. I have come to the conclusion that I am pretty much on my own for most things. Which is not how I pictured marriage at all. I admit jealousy when I see other couples who can laugh so easily with each other. For now, I am trying to maintain hope but trying to keep my feet firmly on the ground and trying to listen to my gut and God.
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More than the letter....I need to plant your words in my head!
I should record you and play it over and over and over.......
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It's a really tough season you're in, Poppy. My H and I have endured some very difficult times, and I can relate to the uncertainty you have expressed if he really gets it or not. My H told me for the longest time he got certain things, and would seem to parrot responses back to me, but I was pretty sure he was just wanting to shut me up so he wouldn't have to deal with things.
I was seriously thinking about leaving, and was staring to make mental plans to do so. It was not to manipulate him, since I didn't tell him. I think he could really sense something different in me. Then, my stepdad became ill, and died. ( Actually, it will be a year ago tomorrow, if I recall the exact date.) We pulled together unbelieveably well during that time, and my bf remarked on it, plus how my H was acting more like the person she used to know when things were better between us. I know the problems were not his alone, but it sure is difficult when the other person draws first blood.
My H works OOT, (is in management for a giant of a constuction firm) so that in itself presents it's own set of hardships on a marriage. It is much better than it was, and his current site is located close enough for frequent home visits.
Sometimes, fun is hard to come by, but I know it's really important. My deceased H used to aggravate me to no end, but we sure did have a lot of silly fun. I also think it's important to have fun alone as well as together. I encourage my H to go to the sport shooting range with his friends sometimes, or other things like ball games or card games with the guys.
Here's to you, and your listening to hope, your gut, and your God.
cats paw
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At this point, I am trying figure out what boundaries to erect. I am trying not to get sucked in and trying to deal with the old emotions (guilt, outrage, responsibility to comply) with my new emotions and attitudes. (not really caring, recognizing the letter is about her, detachment). I can see what my mil is trying to do. Sometimes, I am amazed at how blind she makes herself. So much of her behavior astonishes me. Mostly, I am concerned that my H sees what is going on. He is so used to not looking and not asking, that he rarely sees anything but what she wants him to see. I feel that it is hard to tell when he is literally seeing a problem or just saying what I want to hear. He avoids. He has spent his life in avoiding behaviors feelings, and thoughts. Sometimes I know he avoids me too.
Right now, I feel pain. My bil and his wife are having twins. It is a miracle because he has CF. So, everyone is so excited. Over the months, we have called their house and sent email trying to show interest and enthusiastic support. Most were ignored. We found out they were "boys" from a family group sheet we got in the mail. I finally got one email telling us that they wanted to keep their experience private and weren't sharing it with everyone and that was why they weren't responding. But then his dad tells me all the details and how the family is all involved and having all this fun and his mother pours on the guilt because we are not participating and supporting. We sent a gift two weeks ago (their due date is in about 4 weeks) and I sent another email expressing excitement and support. Both were unanswered. It feels like they blame us for starting all the probs, and reject us when we try to make things better and punish us for not doing exactly what they want.
I am not a malicious person and I feel completely powerless in this situation. No one in the family talks directly to us.....if they do, they argue and refuse to really listen.. If we say, "hey, what you did kinda hurt." They say, "How dare you see it that way. It is all you." We don't get anywhere. They get most of their information from MIL and think it is reliable and when we refute it, they say we aren't being truthful. And now, I don't know if we are doing NC or sort of NC because my H hasn't decided what he wants. Most of the time, he is just trying to figure out how he feels and then avoiding it cause it is too hard and confusing. And it really is too hard and confusing. I agree. I just don't know what to do about it. He doesn't communicated with them.....sometimes I see opportunities missed because of the silence. But maybe that is best. I just don't know.
I am so torn and wound up about this family. They do so many hurtful things and then either say we deserve it or deny it. And when I reach out in loving ways, they bat it away and reject me. It is hard when I don't feel my H is able to see it or empathize with how I feel. He says that he is sorry, but that he just doesn't feel any defensive feelings at all. He just says, "they don't get it" and we don't talk about it again.
Well, it all hurts so badly. I feel like I need more boundaries with everyone so that I am not hurt by all that is happening. Right now, I am so sad because I can't share the joy of the twins. But it is clear we are not welcome. Yet, we are punished for not showing up. :::Shaking head::::: And I know that my Mil will use the letter as evidence that she is loving and everyone will support her and use that against me. I am so used to the drill. I can see it all coming......if I re-engage with them in any degree.
So, my goals now, are to figure out how not to get swept into all of it. And trying to decide what boundaries I need to erect and enforce. I am practicing emotional NC.....but somedays I am not very good at it.
CP, sounds like you went through some really similar things. You must have gotton over some big hurdles to make you feel good about staying.
Pops
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Dear Poppy,
It sounds horrible. I had one N--my M. You sound like you have an army of N's and a semi Benedict Arnold (H) in your own house.
Poppy--it is easy for me to say(and HOW many times did people say it to me) but YOU ARE WORTH MORE than to be their "toy" to make in to whatever they want you to be--- the 'bad" one, the one with the "problem, the troublemaker" etc.I am afraid that the whole family sickness is getting focused on you b/c you "told" about it.I hope that I am wrong.
Your H "needs a whack over the head". I want to put him in line for my marble coffee table.
Poppy,I am angry for how they are treating you. Your only "crime' is trying to 'Make things O.K.".
I hope and pray that your H comes to his senses.You have suffered enough .You don't have to be their sacrificial lamb.
Compost what doesn't fit . Love Ami
(((((((((((((((Poppy)))))))))))))))))))))
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Thank you, Ami. I don't think that you are wrong. Sadly, you are very right. They don't really have to deal with us in honest ways. Their fan clubs keep them insulated and their egos comforted.
I am trying to sort through my thoughts and learnings and trying to put together a stratagy so that at least I am treating myself like I need to be treated. I am trying to imagine the bubble....letting the letter bump off. Not succeeding with regards to the brother situation. Oh well...... Any suggestions on what boundaries I should be setting would be appreciated.
I do feel like it is getting rediculous in terms of pain. My H IS trying. I will give him all the credit I can. But I am keenly aware that no one has my back. Although, his phone conversation with his mother was very encouraging.
Pops
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It is difficult for me, because I don't see any way that I can win except to leave. I can wait.......but how long. I can work on detaching.....and maybe that is the ticket and I don't know it because I haven't completely detached yet. I don't want to leave. I don't want to hurt my kids. I don't want them to see me like this any longer. I don't even recognize myself. I am so sensitive to stuff now. And I hate that. I hope everyone will forgive me. I am trying so hard to see through this mess.
The only time I felt really happy and really centered was the first time I left my H. I felt so amazing! Like I could breath free and I felt so much love for myself. I didn't even have to try. I felt freer to love my kids and to talk to other people. It all went away when he came back. I can't seem to find those feelings. I feel trapped in a sitation where I will continue to be scapegoated. But I am fearful that it is my own inability to erect boundaries and detach that keeps me bound.
Or, it is just a really hard circumstance and it would be hard for anyone. Or both!
Poppy
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Dear Poppy,
I would consider myself as having a "bad' marriage. Once I had kids and realized that my parents would be no help,I decided to stay. Did I do the right thing? I really don't know.
I got sick from stress. However,I did not stand up the way that I should have.I just felt so defeated ,especially when my own parents would not help me.
One thing I learned, though,is that no one can MAKE you do things or go places. Unless they handcuff you( which is illegal ), you ARE a free person ,even though it does not feel that way b/c we do not value ourselves enough.
All in all, my marriage was a horrible proposition. Now, my in laws are out of the picture. My kids are older and I finally stood up-- so it is O.K.
I like what Andrew Wommack, a Bible teacher says."In heaven there is no marrying...."
Amen to that, friend. Love Ami
(((((((((((((((Poppy)))))))))))))))))))))))
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Dear Poppyseed,
Hugs to you! I really hope this is a step in the right direction for your marriage too. You could really use a break, dear Poppyseed!
X Bella
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Oh, Poppy,
Nothing for everyone to forgive. I like your last two sentences.
What prompted you to leave the first time? If you'd rather not discuss any specifics, that's ok, or if you'd just rather not dwell on it period, it's ok , too. I often think of the feelings I had when I was on my own after I got through the worst of my greiving after my H died. I, too, want those wonderful feelings back, and I often get off track with finding ways to experience them again, because I let the tide of life direct me too easily.
What is it that you want to win, Poppy? If you don't put it all out there here, can you answer it to yourself? Without worrying about being selfish, or wanting the right things, or what's best for everyone else? I found that getting in touch with any outrageous "I WANT" did not mean I would automatically demand it or act on it.
There were some books I was thinking about getting, but only got as far as checking them out on Amazon after trolling the net
about ambivalence , divorce, etc. Looking at even excerpts helped.
I hope you'll find and allow little spaces in your life where you can just live, and be, with a little breather from this all-consuming stuff. I'll bet there are times with the kids that provide some "being in the moment" periods. I hope some of them are fun.
Hugs-
cats paw
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Poppy:
What do you think was different about you when you left your husband?
It sounds like you're living under obligations that you yourself put in place, doesn't it?
What would happen if you stopped focusing so much on your husband and his family....?
What if you focused on talking to other people and making new connections?
Where did the freedom go?
What does being around your H change about you?
What agreement do feel's in place?
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Hello CP, Lighter, Bean, and Bella,
This is an interesting two months. I knew I was in so much pain. My insides were telling me the situation was crazy. My situation was telling me that I was crazy.
I have to remind myself that it has only been two or three months since I even learned what N was. So, to expect that my H can jump to light speed is just rediculous.
I think that the answer is within me. The more responsibility I am willing to take about my situation the better. I am realizing how my thinking keeps me in vicitm mode.
Lighter,
When I am with my H, my boundaries go away. I so wish I had understood what N was earlier.....I could have protected myself a little better. Anyway, I think what was different, was that I felt so free. It was the first time I acted for myself. I set boundaries and I felt so good about it. The codep and enmeshment went away. When he came back, I felt all that ability to see and orient and breath went back to fog. I talk a lot about the "whys" with my T and that helps that she understands. Yes, I think that I do put those obligations in place. I am not sure I see it clearly yet, But I try to challenge what I am aware of. I am now trying to build my own life apart from my H. It is a very intimidating experience. But even in the saying of that I don't recognize myself. I used to be such a go getter. I have been praying that God would help me bring back those parts of me that seem to have faded away.
I can see that I need to take more responsibility for my life and my happiness. And I am feeling more hope in the possibilities. You give me strength, Lighter. Not to be gushy, but I put your strong voice in my back pocket when I go out and am not feeling too confident. I pretend that I have that confidence too!! Acting 'as if' really helps. I am trying to meet people. It is really hard to connect with people. I don't know what it is. But I am tryin' babe, I'm trying. I will get some traction here soon!!! :::wishin' and a hopin':::
My mil and fil just left the house. We were putting in our sod yesterday and today and they showed up to help. My H didn't really want them to come but his father was so hurt --- so he said yes. After they were gone, my H laid down on the bed and said, "Oh my Gosh! My mom is such an N!" He doesn't want to see them again for a long while. I am breathing relief.
Bean, I wish I could sit down with your sil. How does she handle stuff? She probably doesn't cave like I do. Correction....did! I am really trying to let go of so many little, subtle destructive beliefs I have picked up along the way. I am putting my trust in God to help me with all of it.
Who was it that posted that list of dysfunctional family traits? I passed it along to my H and he was amazed. Almost every one fit his family. Really good for him to see.
Love much,
Poppyseed
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Ewww.
Bean yo moma is a nasty piece.
Congratulations to you for the sense and the spine to leave her.
Bravo.
Poppy...you hang in. I'm so glad your H is open to learning the Nmysteries.
Maybe you two will move away together?
love
Hops
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Poppy, you're such a good person! You give away your own power because you are so generous and loving. IMO you are being far more considerate of other people than they deserve, but you don't think that way, and so it goes on. When you said how good it felt when you left your H, it was because you finally exercised your own desires and that gave you a sense of control over your destiny that you have always given away. An N parent gave you the idea that you had to sacrifice everything to their needs for their love and that was complete, self-serving bs.! You need to reclaim your power like you did when you left your H. (I'm not saying that's what you need to do, because I don't have a clue). What you need to do is put the word ME into your life. That's just my opinion (but I know I'm right!).
Bill
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Bill,
Hmmmm.....I think you are right!!!! It is time. It is really really time!!!
Thanks all! You have given me lots to think about. I think writing about the letter has helped me to identify the pattern. It is helping me to refuse to take on all the responsibility that she is dishing onto me. Boing!!! Lots of little bands breaking....I am on the way to freedom.
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Dear Poppy,
You said that ,"Lots of little bands are popping."Maybe , that is how healing works. You get little triumphs--little by little. I hope so b/c I am healing little by little.I WISH that I could just get strong and have my own power-immediately. However,it is little by little . love Ami
((((((((((((((Poppy)))))))))))))))))))
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((((Poppy))))
I don't know how you do it.
I think your H does have expectations and he doesn't expect to be challenged or give up certain parts of you he's had access to, without thinking twice about it.
To change those dynamics is sooooo hard. It invites more struggle and you don't know what that struggle will bring.
It's a battle, (and we abhor battles) even if we try to do it with gentle kindness..... we're the only ones being gentle and kind, is my experience.
All I can say is...... I understand, profoundly. I do.