Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: JanetLG on October 26, 2007, 07:05:12 PM
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I've just had a phone call from my Dad's 'ladyfriend', Christine, to say that my Dad has been taken into hospital, but they're not sure what is wrong. He has stomach pains, and they think it might be something to do wth his pancreas. My Dad is 79, and he's the only relative that I speak to. He got divorced from my NMum about 10 years ago, after putting up with her for 37 years, so the man deserves a medal. I live 300 miles from him, so I can't easily visit. But what is freaking me out is that I'm too terrified to visit, even if I could, because of the fear that I'd bump into the NMum or Nsister at the hospital. I am so angry that at this point in his life, I still feel controlled by the N's. Christine has tried to get information from the hospital, but they won't tell her much, because she's 'just a friend', but they WILL discuss it with my NMum - isn't that crazy? They've been divorced for years, but she still gets to come first. Christine doesn't really understand the situation, because she said to me 'I don't know much, but I'm sure if you speak to one of the family, they'll be able to tell you'. Hmmm. Don't think so, but then, I can't bring myself to contact anyone, and that makes me feel so guilty, too. I'll have to wait till the morning to phone the hospital (it's midnight here).
I could do with some prayer support please.
Janet
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((((((((((((((((((((((((Janet and Dad))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Hang in there Janet. The waiting is the hardest.
You and your father are in my prayers.
Peace
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Rest Assured (((((( Janet ))))))
Will be praying tonight and in the morning for your (((((( Dad ))))))
and for you too dear friend.
Love & Hugs to you
Leah
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You're in my prayers, Janet... and your Dad, too.
Carolyn
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Dear Janet,
I think that you have a good group on the board --praying.I will be praying .You can be sure of that --for you and your father.
Love Ami
(((((((((((((((((Janet, Dad)))))))))))))))))))))))
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Dear Janet,
I am so sorry to hear that your Dad is in hospital! I hope that he will be ok and that he's not in too much pain right now. At least he's being taken good care of and he'll have the best of care, whatever is wrong.
Thats absolutely outrageous that they won't give Christine detailed news but they will give the details to his long-time ex wife! I just can't understand that all. I really hope that you can get the news you need to hear, and that it will be good news.
Love and hugs!
X Bella
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Janet: My prayers are with you and your dad.......I think you should go. Who cares about your mom and sister. It is your dad that counts. If you can psych yourself before you arrive to focus on your dad and HIS needs and do not allow those women to yank your chain!! But only you know the true dynamics that you will have to deal with. Only you know if it is safe enough. But if your father divorced your nmom, why would she go???
Oh well, do not think you need to answer these questions. I just want you to do what you feel comfortable with!!
With love and prayers (and a computer!!) Kelly
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My Dear and Inspiring Friend Janet-
I am so sorry about the health crisis of your father, and the heart-wrenching drama surrounding it. I had a similar situation with my father- his wife had parked him in a truly vile facility despite his wealth, and rarely came to visit. I came daily and brought basic items, etc (she hadn't even given him any clothes whatsoever!!!!) I also tried to see what I could do, but his power of attorney , etc limited me severely- it is so hard to get your mind around these things, and so hard to keep one's dignity when having to deal with enemies who are in power. I just did the best I could (I am sure that I failed many times) and ignored the Stepmonster as much as possible, and concentrated on the comfort and wellbeing of my father in his last days, and I am glad I did. Despite everything my heart is at peace about the situation.
Janet, I hope that you can bring someone with you when you visit until you can apprise the situation. In this way you may be shielded from much of the crazymaking N behavior of your family. If not, please take me in your heart with you. Give your father the love and attention that he needs, and ignore any hurtful speech or acts by your family. I wish I could be there- I would guard you like a madwoman!!!
You and your father are going on the prayer list at church Janet. Be strong and do what you know is right in love- as for the rest of the lot, ignore them as much as possible.
I will be praying.
Your Friend,
Changing
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Dear Changing,
You have such a comforting way of saying things.I am sure that your post really helped Janet.I remember how well Bone's friend did when you put him on the prayer list. That was the first thing that I thought of when Janet told me about her Dad. Love Ami
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Love and strength and comfort to you Janet,
peace and good doctors and kind caring helpers for your Dad
and no fear for you, no fear.
Their games aren't strong enough to scare you
when you reach your Dad's side, your love
is bigger
lots of love, I'm so sorry...
Hops
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Dear Janet,
I send my best, which is so not sufficient to give you much comfort. I hope for all the magic needed to help you avoid bumping into the N's. I hope things are such that you can spend time with Dad, talking about the things you both enjoy.
tt
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Thank you so much to everybody.
I have managed to phone the ward that my dad is on, this morning, and to find out what is happening. Apparently, he collapsed at his flat on Wednesday, but as it's sheltered accomodation, he could pulll the emergency cord, and people got to him quickly. He's been taken to a hospital that is brand new - it wasn't built when I used to live in the area (I live 300 miles away, now), so it's got all 'state of the art' stuff.
The nurse responsible for him told me that he's got pancreatitis (not surprising, as he's been alcoholic for about 40 years), but they're going to do a scan today to be sure. They expect him to be in for about a week. I explained a bit about the 'family wars' that mean that if anything happens to him, the 'nominated next of kin' (my NMum, I think) would probably not tell me, so she's made a note on his case notes that I'm to be told separately, which makes me feel a lot better. All the beds have their own 'entertainment centre' with phones, so she gave me the number of my dad, and I could phone him straight after talking to her. He sounded tired but OK. It's good that I can ring him whenever I want (not just going through the nurses), and he can ring me. He doesn't want me to visit, as it's a long way and he doesn't feel too bad now, but he's got other people to visit him, and now I can phone him, I can do that a lot instead, and not come up against the N's. I've calmed down a lot, now that I've spoken to him. I was getting completely out of it by about 3am last night.
You've no idea how helpful it was (maybe you have! :)) to have this forum and the lovely people on it to support me. Even though my husband is great, and he's been giving me lots of cuddles, even he said last night 'you'll want to post on the forum about this, won't you?', because he knows how supportive you all are.
Thanks so much for your prayers.
Janet
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Janet,
After reading this thread down to the end, and I felt much calmed when I read that you had spoken with him. It must feel good to be able to phone him directly. Your husband - what a gem!
cats paw
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So glad you got in touch with medical professionals yourself and can phone your dad direct.
That's exactly what you should do.... you're his daughter and have your own right to information and contact with him.
I hope he continues to get better, and removes your NM from his list of next of kin.
What a strange thing to do.... esp as it relates to his new lady friend.... it cuts her support out and invites your mother's nutsy behavior back in during time of crisis :shock:.
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Dear Janet,
So very relieved for you that you have been able to speak directly with the nurse and gain reassurance that you will be contacted directly. But of course, that most likely will be unnecessary - the hospital sounds wonderful, with it's state of the art 'entertainment' facility.
To be able to phone your Dad and speak to him must have given you such a sense of peace and calm. So very pleased to hear about that and the fact that you can telephone him, and of course your Dad can telephone you too. Wonderful stuff!
So today they are going to do the scan - presumably, you will be able to telephone later and find out how that went, and when the result of the scan will be made known.
Your husband is a lovely gem.
Thoughts and prayers for your Dad, and for you Janet.
Love, Leah
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Janet,
So glad that you have made contact with your Dad and he is feeling better. I am thinking that being in the same "space" as your N family at some stage is going to be inevitable and wondering if you could think about how you can protect yourself in the event of that happening. Glad your Dad has his "ladyfriend" to support him and that she has contact with you.......... lucky duck having a good husband to cuddle you.
Take care of yourself,
axa
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Wonderful Janet-
I am so glad that your mind is at ease now about your father and that you have a way of N-less direct contact !!! How lovely as well that your husband appreciates you and is a true support and cuddler!!! I will keep praying for you and your father and husband.
Love from Your Friend,
Changing
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Dear Janet,
What a relief that everything looks good. It is so hard for us with N M's to deal with this type of stress(speaking for myself). I seem to take stress much too hard. I think that the lack of mothering makes life so much harder. Then, when you add a truly stressful event like with your Dad,I feel very overwhelmed.
Maybe ,I am speaking for myself,but it is hard for me to cope with "anything" ,let alone "real things"
I was so sorry for the pain that you were going through.
At least, you can talk to your Dad,now. That was a 'Divine' gift,I think.
Hopefully, you can rest and be so thank ful that he seems like he will be O.K..,
I don't know if it is just "me but life seems like it has so much pain. Maybe --it seems worse b/c of our M's.
The main thing is that you are doing well,now. I am so,so thankful for that. Love Ami
((((((((((((((((((Janet)))))))))))))))))
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I have just got up from having a deeeeeep sleep this afternoon - three hours - to catch up a bit on what I missed last night! Thanks for the recent posts.
I know it's weird that my NMum STILL interferes in my Dad's life enough to be listed as the next of kin...but that's how much control she's got over him. Apparently, though, my Dad's ladyfriend was able to visit him in hospital with just my brother and his wife there - not my NMum too - so she feels better, too.
Last time my dad was in hospital, two years ago, Christine met my NMum for the first time in the hospital corridor, just before visiting time. Christine felt so uncomfortable with the situation, that she went home. How unfair is that? My NMum had been divorced from my Dad for 9 years, then. Control, control, control. Perhaps she's worried that he'll change his Will and leave it all to Christine and not her, like she's told him to. Evil woman.
It doesn't look like he's going to have the scan done today, now - it'll probably be Monday, now. I suppose if they thought it was urgent, they'd get it done.
It's so helpful to have the direct phone line, though.
I know that one day I'll probably have to face the N's, and that what freaks me out the most - I just expect it to be a screaming match, like it used to be. They'd love to make me 'lose it' in public.
Janet
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Janet,
I am a little late getting here, but my thoughts are with you. I hope everything continues to go well.
Poppyseed
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Dear Janet,
Thanks for the update; I'm glad to hear that the doctors think your father is well enough to wait until Monday for his scan. I hope that means good news.
I really feel sorry for Christine; she must be a very soft person with low self esteem. Imagine having a partner who pledged all his belongings to his horrible ex wife instead of you when he passes away? It makes me wonder what she thinks about that?
But I can definitely relate, as the last time my mother left my father to have a major affair, she was gone longer than usual. It was closer to 18 months. During that time, my father started dating himself and met a wonderful professional woman who was kind to him and shared his interests. Her name was Meredith and she was our best hope for our Father starting a new life.
But as soon as my mother's affair ended, she moved back in with our father immediately. He didn't even break up with Meredith in person (or talk to her ever again). He just let our mother pick up the phone when she called, and Mum told her to get lost (she can be incredibly nasty). I thought it was so cruel. It shows how powerful and long lasting an addiction to an N can be for some people.
Janet, you'll be ok if you have to see your family again. They won't be able to gas light you if you don't talk to them. Even if they come right up to your ear and start ranting, you can still just walk away without saying a word. No-one can force you to engage in a drama if you don't want to.
I hope you are well and that you'll soon hear more news about your father
X Bella
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Bella,
Thanks for that. I have calmed down a lot, now that I have spoken to him today.
I do think that if/when I have to see the N's, I'd have to behave exactly as you say - be in the same room as them, but act as if they're not. Just be totally oblivious to them, if that's possible. My husband has said that he'd never let me have to deal with them alone, so I know I'd always have him to fend them off. He can be very 'collected' when he has to (i.e. with them), even when he's seething inside. And they know they can't come out with the usual garbage with him, because it just doesn't work. On the rare occasions when I've been tricked into speaking to my Nsister (she has a habit of ringing up occasionally, just when I think she's dropped off the horizon), I just go straight back to when I was trapped by them, and fall into 'victim mode'. It's so annoying!! My Nsister can be more bitchy than my NMum.
Christine does have incredibly low self-esteem. She speaks very softly. Her own kids treat her like dirt - her son of 26 has never had a job, and she's always clearing up after him, and giving him money. I think she feels that the times she goes out with my dad are a bit of a break from her usual home life. My dad's got his own flat, but they see each other a few times per week. I can't understand why my dad puts up with my NMum interfering still. It must be partly habit, and partly fear. Like many on here who have got N mothers, the fathers are often weak and downtrodden enablers, and that's what he is, really. It's bizarre about the Will, isn't it? I don't care if I don't get his money (and I know I'll definitely not get any of my Nmum's), but why he feels he's got to leave her anything when they've been divorced is beyond me. It's not as if my NMum has never gone out to work - she's worked for most of her adult life, except for about 6 years when we were small, so she's got her own money. And she's always got the cash of the latest male mug who's fallen for her, to pay for anything she needs.
That's awful about your mum going off for ages, and then wrecking the relationship of your dad, and him letting her! The things we have to experience! No wonder it's so hard to get away from N's. They are so good at taking over other people when it suits them. They're like androids rather than humans.
Janet
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J...
Pod people.
:(
(shudder)
Hops
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Dear Janet,
Just to say that I am thinking of you, and your Dad.
Hope all is well and that you enjoy a peaceful day today.
Love, Leah
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Dear Janet,
I bet that since you are a very different person now , that you would be better able to deal with your N M and S than you THINK..I am not saying that you want to or even need to or will. However,I would bet that you don't realize that you have many more resources inside you than you realize.
I realized this on my trip.The board is the thing that really changed me.I was very different than last year,at the same time.
Just a thought. Compost( for your vegetables) what does not fit Love Ami
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Dear Janet,
Thinking of your Dad today
and you too of course.
Love, Leah
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Ami and Leah,
I would hope that I could face being with the N's better than before when I had to, but I really don't like the idea. I know that one day I'll probably have to be in the same room with them (UGH).
When I first came on this forum, it was one of the threads I started - something about 'What will I do when my non-N Dad dies'...I know that it will be an excruciating experience anyway, but to have to get through it with N's just makes me weak at the knees. I got some very good advice then - like, I wouldn't have to go to the funeral, and that I could 'say goodbye' at a Chapel of Rest without them being there, etc.
Anyway, that's not a problem just yet...I rang my Dad this morning, and he's had the scan. They can't find anything at all wrong (that would show up on a scan, anyway). They think it might be gallstones, now. He said that yesterday when the doctors did their rounds, they just mumbled about him at the end of his bed, and moved off, without talking to him. So, I've told him to be more of an assertive patient today, and to tell the nurse who is responsible for his ward, before the doctors get there, that he expects to get the chance to discuss how he is with the doctors.
Doctors. Grrr!
Janet
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If they are not "worried', that is good. I am so happy that whatever it was seems to have receded. If he drinks alot,it could have just been an inflammation of the pancreas,which got better on it's own.
I am so happy that he seems to be at the tail end of the problem, though.
Janet,there is no rule about going to funerals,or anything else. YOU can make the rules. We don't give ourselves enough permisiion to make our own rules.
Funerals are for the living, anyway. Your F will not know,so I would not go,if it were me.
Anyway, compost for the veggies what seems like should go in the garden -HUH? Love Ami
(((((((((((((((((((((Janet))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Ami,
Yes, that's what I think. He's been in hospital for 5 days before they bother doing any tests - so are they surprised they can't find what's wrong? Five days is enough for it to get better on its own. Also, he's been on antibiotics for five days now, too, so they should have been working.
As to funerals, I agree with you - funerals are for the living, and I think I'd prefer to have my own 'ceremony' of some kind, on my own, to honour his life, rather than go and be with the N's, get really stressed, and probably have a screaming match.
Janet
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It always seemed "dumb" to me that people would go to a funeral to honor the person who died b/c that person does not know. I can understand going to honor the 'living" family--but not the dead person. That is just my take on it love Ami
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As to funerals, I agree with you - funerals are for the living, and I think I'd prefer to have my own 'ceremony' of some kind, on my own, to honour his life, rather than go and be with the N's, get really stressed, and probably have a screaming match.
Janet
Dear Janet,
That is a wonderful idea.
Creating your own very personal 'ceremony' to honour his life --- affording him dignity.
Really appreciate your inspiration.
Love, Leah
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Leah,
I 'know' inside that it would be a good thing to do, but tradition and the 'Wrath of the N Family' (that makes it sound like some kind of 'B' movie!) makes me feel guilty.
Ami,
When my grandad died about 20 years ago, I remember one of my cousins looking around at the huge gathering that we had for him (he was a lovely man, really popular), and she said 'wouldn't Grandad have loved this? All these people! He always loved a party.'
And yet, when he was alive (but getting older), no-one thought to organise one so that he could be part of it.
The other thing I think is strange (but typically N) is that my NMum is not religious at all, but she thinks it is 'sinful' to not go to a funeral. And yet I am religious, and I don't think that. With her, I think she would feel that a funeral is a place where you HAVE TO BE SEEN. Because it all comes down to appearances, with her.
Janet
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Leah,
I 'know' inside that it would be a good thing to do, but tradition and the 'Wrath of the N Family' (that makes it sound like some kind of 'B' movie!) makes me feel guilty.
Ami,
When my grandad died about 20 years ago, I remember one of my cousins looking around at the huge gathering that we had for him (he was a lovely man, really popular), and she said 'wouldn't Grandad have loved this? All these people! He always loved a party.'
And yet, when he was alive (but getting older), no-one thought to organise one so that he could be part of it.
The other thing I think is strange (but typically N) is that my NMum is not religious at all, but she thinks it is 'sinful' to not go to a funeral. And yet I am religious, and I don't think that. With her, I think she would feel that a funeral is a place where you HAVE TO BE SEEN. Because it all comes down to appearances, with her.
Janet
Dear Janet,
Hear what you say and understand how one would feel, as I would too.
But we could in addition have our own personal 'celebration' of life in honour - the difference would be dignity and sincerity.
Your NMother and my NMother would seem to fall under the category of "Saintly Narcissist"
And why ever can't people tell someone how much they think of the person ..... whilst they are alive to hear it ???
Too late when they are gone.
Truly, that has very much been my own heartfelt sentiment for a long time now.
Love, Leah
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Janet, I'm so glad he had a clear scan.
Your story reminds me I saw a documentary on a trend called "living funerals". It won't work with an Nfamily, but for anyone who can...was it Art Buchwald?
Anyway, it's a happy gathering WITH the soon-to-be-deceased, when all the memorials, affectionate stories, tributes and love are all presented in their honor with them there.
I would love that, were I fortunate enough to have advance notice of my death.
Meanwhile, I am so glad this brief brush with his death has given you a chance to reclaim the love and dignity and affection that YOU choose to honor him with...at your time, and in your way. I support you so much in that.
love,
Hops
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Janet - so glad your dad is on the mend and you've found so much comfort and support here.
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Hops,
That's a really nice idea, isn't it? I hadn't heard of 'living funerals' before.
Iphi,
If it wasn't for this forum, I'd still be in a state over all this, I think. There's so much support and common sense here!
Janet
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Dear Janet,
I am so glad that you found comfort in the board.I am so very glad that you can breathe a sigh of relief now. Love Ami
((((((((((((((((((((((Janet))))))))))))))))))))))))))
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Janet I know - I wasn't able to read this topic until now (busy weekend!) and was apprehensive before learning it all turned out alright, but so reassuring to read how much wisdom and kindness was shared here and what good ideas about heading off your dreadful Ns. Also such eye-opening stuff about yr dad most likely leaving $ to the NM (honestly!) and keeping her as next of kin (honestly!) and the poor ladyfriend. I hope your dad has many more pleasant and largely N-free years ahead as he has certainly paid up front. :shock:
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Dear Janet,
Thanks so much for the update! Its so good to hear he's ok now and that whatever was wrong is not too serious:) I think you gave your Dad good advice too; he really deserves to know what the doctors think and have them at least talk to him! (how rude of them)
Janet, regarding the possibility of attending your Father's future funeral, I'd suggest doing whatever feels right for you at that time. I would totally support nonattendance and i can totally understand your reasons for considering it. But you might have very strong feelings about attending when the time comes, and if you want to go, then go.
Whatever choice you make, your mother will use the opportunity to hurt you; she'll misconstrue you motives if you don't attend, and she'll possibly cause drama if you do.
In such a case, the abuse is sadly inevitable, whether you're there or not. So if you really want to be there, I'd say just go anyway.
X bella
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Oh, this is all sounding so much better.... many thanks for the updates, Janet.
Even when I can't read here daily, prayers are continuing... and now Christine is added to my list, too... and who knows, maybe she'll find her voice through all this, as well!
Carolyn
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(((((((((((((((((((Janet)))))))))))))
Glad to hear all is better - got here late and missed the initial fear. Glad to see the 'story' turned out well.
Love, Beth
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Thanks you everybody who has bothered to keep reading and posting here - I really appreciate it.
Bella,
I know I might change my nmind when the times comes, but I do think you're right - whatever I choose to do will be 'wrong' as far as my NMum is concerned. I would just hate it if she turned a funeral into a fight.
Perhaps she'll die first? Now, there's a thought :?
Hope,
Christine could do with a louder 'voice', I agree, but so could my Dad. It's so strange that although she and my dad have been together for about five years now, the rest of my family leave her out of 'family' stuff (Christmas, etc), and my dad tolerates that. On Christmas day, he goes to my Nmum's - because she tells him to!! So, he doesn't have the nerve to tell her that either Christine should come too, as his current partner, or that he's not going to go. Weird. Too much brain-washing from the past, I think.
On a slightly different note, my NMum said to me once, when I'd just got engaged 'Well, I hope I die before he does [my fiance], because I wouldn't know how to console you' (meaning, 'You cow, you think more of him than you do of me').
Janet
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OMG, Janet, forgive me for laughing. :lol:
That guote was just such a spectacular example of the true absence of empathy...
It's like Ns are parodies.
It reallly IS an inability to imagine what's going on in another person, much less empathize with it.
They have amazing imaginations about themselves, but it's a one-way kind of thing.
(Oh I am Cleopatra, la la la, oh you there, peel me a grape...)
Hops
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Hops,
Yes, it's so amazing how they view themselves, isn't it? With that ourburst from her, I did actually laugh in her face and walk away.
Janet
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Thanks to everyone who has been following this saga...
My Dad just phoned me, and he has been allowed home this afternoon. My brother has taken him home, so he's got someone with him for a while. Although they didn't find out what was wrong, my Dad feels a lot better now (no pain), and just wants to go to sleep in his own bed again!
Janet
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Dear Janet,
I am so happy for you and your Dad. You can breathe a sigh of relief,now. Thanks for the update, friend Love Ami
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Janet,
So pleased for you - such good news.
Love,
Leah
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Dear Janet-
I am glad that things are better.
As for your NM, you could never be a cow, as you are an angel.
Love to you and yours,
Changing
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Changing,
You are so sweet.
I wish you'd been my mother.
Janet
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Yay!
So glad to hear of his reprieve, Janet.
That's a relief.
Maybe you'll find some chink in his helplessness and still have some meaningful times with him.
Hops
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Daughter Janet-
Here is my motherly lecture of the day-I want you to know that I am proud of you, and that you are beautiful. I want you to remember to show my cuddly and strong son-in-law that you love, respect and appreciate him. I want you to take good care of precious Janet, and refer anyone who tries to hurt you to me! And tomorrow, I want you to get up and bring the Prometheus fire down to earth in your art work!!!
Love From Your American Mom,
Changing
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Hops,
Yes, I still want to keep on chipping away at things that need chipping away at! I do feel so much better, now that he's home (and so does he!)
Janet
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Changing,
I really don't know what to say to that. You are just so special. How do you do it? Practice, I suppose!
As to my 'art work' (sorry, not confident enough yet to write that without the inverted commas) - apart from designing for my business, I've just been asked by the minister of our church if I'd like to do some embroideries for the Chapel, as it's a fairly new building, and so far is very plain. It's something I've thought about since I started attending the chapel about a year ago. It'll be a really long project, as there's lots of bare walls to fill, and also things like lecturn falls, alms bag, banners, etc. to do.Could keep me going for years! The congregation is so small, there's no-one else there who even does embroidery, so, in a way I'm lumbered with doing it all myself, but in another way I have 'free rein' to do the stitching exactly how I want (i.e., I can make it quite complicated and detailed, without having to worry about if anyone else can follow my instructions). At the moment, I haven't got to the sensible planning stage, I'm still at the WOO-HOO!!! stage.
Janet
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Dear Janet,
I bet it would be a masterpiece when it is done. You will have to post a picture . What a project it would be. Love Ami