Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on November 01, 2007, 07:00:23 PM
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I always wanted to become "real". That was my goal since I got on the board. I had been "numb" since I was 14. I remember the moment that I became numb. It was in my parents bedroom when my F told me that my M was "normal".
I have been numb ever since. I thought that it would be so "wonderful" to be "real
I think that I became "real" today. Amber really helped by showing me that I needed to be sick or hurt to be "real". I realized that this was true.
I don't know what exactly happened to make me real,but I accepted two very important truths that I had denied. One was that my M WAS mentally ill. The other was that she was like a 3 yr.old.The third was that I was alone( the worst of all)
Then, Amber helped me to see the "Role". Today,I feel like there is new "oxygen" in my brain. I feel different.If I am not 'real", I am close.
However,it is very painful to face life as it is.
My M sent me a letter today. She said that she did not want to talk to me anymore.i got better and she totally rejected me.
It was good that it happened ,today.
The last big step to becoming real was facing that I am alone. My M was a fantasy.She did not take care of me when I was 5. How is she going to do it now? She told me that I "needed too much love" and was "too dependent" when I was 5.
It is a very, very weird freaky feeling-----feeling 'real"
The other thing that I realize is that I cannot NEED another person to define me. With Maria,I needed much more than friendship. I needed s/one to make me O.K. . I needed s/one to make me feel "normal". I needed s/one to "make me in to more than I was"
I gave away my power and too much money.
I wanted a "family". I was a set up for being like the people you see on T.V. who lose everything to a con artist. You wonder how they can be so stupid. I know how b/c I was .
If anyone understands what I am saying,I would love to hear your experiences Love Ami
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Dearest Ami-
You are the best most generous and loving being- not just money as with Maria, but the way that you answer every lonely post with true compassion and caring for every person. I know that you pulled me through many terrible nights filled with shame, fear and self-doubt.
It is so terrible that your mother is so sick. One can only respect and thank her for having such a lovely and good daughter- as for the rest, one must bless and release her, hope for a miracle, but act on reality. You must become your own mother now- I know you can. You are a superb mom to your sons- you deserve to speak to yourself and treat yourself with the same care. You don't have to carry your mother's cross any more.
You are gifted , talented, and a real friend. You deserve real love and friendship and happiness- it is right there in your own hands!!!
Love From Your Friend,
Changing
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Ami:
Did Maria take you? I must have missed that. I hate needy people but have had many in my life.
Here is the deal - your mom is cutting you off because you have changed. SHE cannot have you any other way than you have been since you were 14 - under her thumb. This is what Ns do. They try to get you back into their box. If you do not, then you get shunned to a certain extent.
That is what my mom did to me. I set boundaries very loudly. Of course, I was labelled unstable. But my resolve was so strong that I didn't really care about the label. I just wanted out from this scrutiny. This manipulation.
Do not go back. Either do not respond or respond with a firm - "I have made up my mind that the following boundaries will be enforced. I am sorry if this makes you uncomfortable." Or I use a lot of "I have done some research and I finally realized, I AM NOT THE PROBLEM......."
It makes them crazy but they deserve it since they have made us crazy all our life!!
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Dear Changing and Kelly,
Your love is making me cry. Thanks so much for your kind words. Love Ami
(((((((((((((((((Changing, Kelly)))))))))))))) Hugs of Thanks
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Every time I need support on this board I get it-when it makes me cry I know that you all are there to support me and I feel loved! you ARE loved and we support you and lift you up!
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Ami,
I am so sorry your mother can't see how wonderful you are. It's her loss, not yours.
It's a strange thing, that when we start NC because we can't stand their abuse anymore, they do this 'I will never speak to you again' thing. Just don't be surpirised if, once you have got over the shock, she comes back a while later with another letter that says 'why aren't you speaking to me, then?' They just don't get it. I have had several letters from both my NMum and Nsister doing just that, and yet, if you call them on it, and say 'But YOU SAID you were never going to speak to ME again!' they tend to say things like 'Ah, but that was so that you would come back and apologise...Of COURSE I didn't mean it, you are just being nasty to me by not speaking to me NOW'.
It's crazy, but they keep changing the rules. And that makes it even more hurtful. Because all they want, in the end, is attention. Any attention. Even negative attention.
It's time to decide once and for all that you're THROUGH with her. It's not that important whether you actually tell HER or not, but I think you do need to be sure in your own mind that you've just had the final straw.
I hate to see you this upset. You don't deserve it.
Your mother wants a bloody good slap.
Janet
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Dear ((((( Ami )))))
You have my sincerest empathy for truly I know how it feels deep down inside.
This has happened to me also and it really is the turning point of reality for you.
Yes, it's so painful - it hurts. Because you have done no wrong.
The Games People Play as Losers.
We are the winners, we are the blessed fortunate ones .... sometime soon you will see that.
You will truly know and feel that.
Love, Leah
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She said that she did not want to talk to me anymore
Dear Ami,
You have mentioned that you have spoken to her on the telephone and my guess is that she realises
that you know ........ you know the truth of her behaviour.
She cannot face the truth of herself ... she cannot look into the mirror of herself.
Likewise, my NM's reaction.
Prayerfully thinking of you,
Love, Leah
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Dear Changing, Kelly, Janet Leah and Hops
THANK YOU from the bottom of my heart ( and every l space within it). You have given me a gift with your caring
Yesterday was a huge turning point for me.
Janet---you are so right about KNOWING down deep that it is NC.You don't have to say it and it is probably better if you don't .It is the down deep decision that you make that there must be NO MORE ABUSE.You feel it in your heart and soul ---NO MORE.
I never got here before. I thought that my M was ""different(denial).It is the same denial we go through with an abusive man( relationship)
WE don't want it to be true.IF we twist ourselves around enough,we can make it NOT true but we have to give up reality.
I gave up all reality about myself. I gave up that I had anything "on the ball". I gave up that I was "anything" at all.
My Aunt "shocks' me b/c she says,"Ami, you are a lovely girl, How do you think of yourself so badly?". The way that she says it is like,"how' could I be so "silly".
This ,always,hits me in a strange way. However,yesterday,it hit me HOW much my M got me to distort myself. I was in the "fun house' mirror and I was the ugliest ,most distorted one in the whole fun house.My Aunt has been a gift from God. She is just like my Grandmother.Life is so much simpler for her. She has a right and wrong,unlike my M who is too important to be "bothered' with right and wrong and will decimate you if you try to have 'character'.
My aunt is a defined person. She accepts herself. It is like "not" being in the "fun house",but looking in a 'regular ' mirror.
Hops, you are right.The saga of my M HAS to come to an end. Yesterday ---WAS the end.I don't have to 'touch" the snake ,anymore,
Changing,what you said about not carrying her cross anymore is so right. Yesterday,I felt "real'. I don't have to punish myself anymore. I failed at making her well. I tried everythung.I would even have died for her,but I failed. She is as sick as I left her at 14.
I lost myself at 14 to try to make her well. I gave all these years and my blood and guts to make her well. HERE she is as sick as ever. This would be the kind of irony that would have you laughing so hard that you would end up in a mental institution. You know how you see people laughing in movies and they end up in a mental institution. That is the kind of laughter that I feel I could have now. It would start with regular laughter and end up with "insanity"
However, Changing, yesterday,I had a wonderful day,in a way. Everything seemed "real'. I saw so many beautiful things that were '"real'. I sat next to my Poodle and just touched her "wolfman' face( she needs to be groomed). Her face has been with me through so much of the pain of my marrige and my M. She has evacuated with me in hurricanes. She sits by my chair and doesn't let anyone near me(protects me like my parents didn't)
I just felt her hair and cried b/c I love her so much.I really looked at my house and saw all the beauty that Maria helped me to put there----beautiful paintings, the dining room table that is all glass and white with white flowers.Today, I play the paino and guitar. I don't have to punish myself anymore. It was all to keep HER "real" and ME "dead." Now, she is "dead' and I am 'real". Amber, I think that is a key for me. Who is the 'real" one?. It didn't work. All these years later, she is exactly the same as when I left her--bleh.
I do not have to take away my joy anymore .so I could be the "bad" one(for my M)
Kelly, thank you for sending your love to me. I don't have to be defined by my M anymore.You "crashed" and found yourself. That must be what we need to do. We "crash" somehow and are "reborn" as us----not their clone.
Leah, Thank you for your understanding. The fact that you understand and have gone through this helps to take away the raw pain.Thank you for your kindness--Leah.
This was one freakin "birth process" to become "real". However, with all your help and love,I think that I got there. Thank you so,very,very much Love Ami
(((((((((((Changing, Kelly, Janet, Hops, Leah))))))))))))))))) Hugs of Thanks
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Ami, hon...
You could send a postcard: Couldn't agree more. Have a nice life. --Ami
And you can send registered letters to your Dad, telling him that you will love him always and want him to visit and call you whenever he can. But that you want to enjoy the present with him, taking walks, having a meal, and not keep rehashing your past relationship with your mother, because for you, that's over now. And you're moving forward with your life.
And you can not yield ever to the "just testing" impulse to contact her again. That's asking to be slapped again, just to find out if it will still hurt. You know it will. You have a long way to go before that wouldn't hurt. No need to test it.
So as you get real, get kind to yourself too, okay?
hugs
Hops
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Hops wrote:
And you can not yield ever to the "just testing" impulse to contact her again. That's asking to be slapped again, just to find out if it will still hurt. You know it will. You have a long way to go before that wouldn't hurt. No need to test it.
DearAmi,
The advice Hops has given is so very very true.
Believe me, I did just that a few years ago and it was the biggest mistake ever possible. Told my self that things were not that bad really and phoned to test the water. NM said she was sorry. Got drawn in hook line and sinker, and the pain inflicted upon me, not instantly, but slowly like a dripping tap ..... was in effect an increase of 100% on previous measure.
Finally, NM recanted - said that she had never said that she was sorry ........ but that I had !! That was on the day of final contact.
Right now, be gentle and kind with yourself and as each day dawns hereon, gently take just one small step at a time.
Just know in your heart that you are meant to be free.
Thinking of you.
Love,
Leah
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The last big step to becoming real was facing that I am alone.
This feeling of being alone comes from in fact always longing for the love of the unavailable and hurtful, I think.
If you keep reaching out for someone who doesn't want to get close to you the result is feeling alone.
Ironically, people who have survived abuse push away people who can love and nurture them. They do this because it doesn't feel right -- but it's probably because it feels so different.
If you (and all of us who have suffered abuse) can learn to become comfortable with those who love and care for you in a normal healthy way and stop reaching out for love and care from those who cannot (or will not) give it to you, you will feel less alone.
I hope this helps and it is in part the answer you're looking for -- it can help you get unstuck from such a lonely place.
Sometimes we can be surrounded by people but very much alone.
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Thank you,Lonely, for those kind words. I really apppreciate your post. Love Ami
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(((((Ami))))) I understand exactly what you mean when you say how much you have sacrificed over how long to try to heal her, and make her well. And she is just as obstinately sick as ever, after all this time and effort. And she is terrifyingly sick. Like you can see she has a raging case of galloping disease of the soul and it's some kind of emergency.
Time and again it amazes me how you and many others post here in the exact way I think to myself about my dad. I should really trust more to share.
I will share where it ended up for me. I just had to turn the case over to god (as I understand god) as the 'Great Doctor.' I really had to give up all hope of being there when he gets better, of seeing it, knowing the outcome, or having an role or effect or anything - so that I can hope to shake it off and walk through and past.
For me, it is a huge learning that you can pour yourself out utterly and stretch yourself completely - and there will be no healing for the N, no understanding in the N, no effect on the N, no difference for the N. He always demanded I think of him utterly and I did and it did no good.
So giving people what they want and claim to need (believing it will sate them, cure them, that they can then be well), it clearly is not at all what they really need: it is not the cure. He has no idea what he needs: he's a fool and he is going to die of it. He's wasted his life because of it.
And that's how I feel in reading about your mom too. She has a raging case of galloping N-ism. I'd call 911 for it and declare an emergency quarantine. But we have no treatment and only the patient could possibly treat themselves anyway, I guess, or God and time and change - larger forces than I personally know anything about. Meanwhile, she has absolutely wasted her life imo, because she has abjectly failed to requite true love (her children's) and has, you have so perfectly described it, been a curse. My god, what regrets. I would spare them such regrets, but we can't - we have to let them free to learn what they are clearly, unbeknownst to them, crying out to learn - hard lessons.
Enough about them.
It gladdens my heart to hear about your heart being free and seeing Right Now - life and love and beings and feeling it all flow within you and around you. Your posts here help me and comfort me very much, and it is so very obvious to me how untrue all the things your NM has foisted upon you in her mad raging illness, I rejoice in your freedom.
Of course, she'll be back like the wicked witch, to offer you a shiny apple. So I agree, you have to know deep within yourself that you are done. That the situation has changed within you and that within you, you are oriented in a different direction and are in a different place. I strive to be open to the unknown future, and to focus on learning things that I might need for that unknown future (like how to be a good friend and receive friendship too), but as a prerequisite to the opening up - I believe we simply must loosen our white knuckle grip on the relationship with the N. I want to walk into the future open handed, holding nothing.
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Helo Iphi-
Reading your observations and aspirations I immediately flashed to Laura Nyro's Timer, especially the lyric "Holding to my cradle at the start, but now my hand is open, and now my hand is ready for my heart. " This song really reminds me of the journey from N abuse to freedom :
Timer
Uptown, going down, old life line, walking down faster, walking with the master of time.
My lady woke up, she broke down, she got up, she let go,
Take me Timer, shake me Timer, let it blow, let it blow.
My darling friends, oh, I belong to Timer, he changed my face.
You're a fine one Timer, you've got me walking through the gates of space.
I keep remembering indoors that I used to walk through,
baby, I'm not trying to talk you down.
But I could walk through them doors onto a pleasure ground.
It was sweet and funny, a pleasure ground.
Didn't know about money, did not know about Timer, did not know about Timer.
Holding to my cradle at the start but now my hand is open
and now my hand is ready for my heart.
So let the wind blow Timer, I like her song.
And if the song goes minor, I won't mind.
And Timer knows the lady's gonna love again.
Time says the lady rambles never more.
If you love me true, I'll spend my life with you and Timer.
You're a jigsaw Timer, God is a jigsaw souling with, souling.
You're a jigsaw Timer, God is a jigsaw souling with, souling with Timer, Timer
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Ami,
I think being real....is being whole. Allowing all of our inside parts to move and function freely. No prison of shame and guilt and obligation to a tyrant. Not pain free......but free to see and experience the landscape and that means experiencing joy and happiness and adventure too! Free to feel and express and be. Free to love and be loved. Free to taste and to explore and learn. Learning in the N realm is a sick cycle of learning the same painful lessons over and over hoping that maybe the next attempt will bring what I hope for...... bending and breaking ourselves to get something we will never get from these people. It is the rubix cube that will never solve.
Much love to you Ami. Others have expressed my feelings better than I could. My heart is with you. I am excited for you. You feel like you are so close to full freedom from the trap of your mother. I wish you that place where your burdan is finally lifted and you are truly free to love being real.
Poppy
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Ami,
I think this is one of the most important things you have ever written on this forum, Ami:
"Today, I play the paino and guitar. I don't have to punish myself anymore. It was all to keep HER "real" and ME "dead." Now, she is "dead' and I am 'real". Amber, I think that is a key for me. Who is the 'real" one?. It didn't work. All these years later, she is exactly the same as when I left her--bleh.
I do not have to take away my joy anymore .so I could be the "bad" one(for my M)"
You've 'seen the light' completely, even though it is so painful to do. You've finally got there, and now it's clear what needs doing next. Looking after YOU.
SHE needs to look after herself. You can't do it for her.
I do think it is important, as Hops said, that you contact your dad in a way that cannot be intercepted by her, to make it very clear to him, that stopping all contact with HER doesn't mean that you want to stop all contact with HIM. She will, most likely, convey HER take on the situation in those terms to him, because then she can offload the 'real reason' for the NC as being his fault in some way, or yours, but never hers. So, please get in touch with him as soon as possible.
It will get better than this, eventually, I promise.
Janet
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JanetLF wrote:
All these years later, she is exactly the same as when I left her
Profound impacting truth
Leah
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What a great song, changing. Laura Nyro - a singer for the indie cognescenti if I recall my indie lore, culled from some article somewhere! I know nothing about her but her lyrics are wonderful. I love deep thoughts on time and being.
here is one I am reminded of too for Ami and all of us today:
"Life is right in any case. My heart is as open as the sky."
It is the last line in the movie Kama Sutra, which is a wonderful movie about friendship and love and disaster.
P.S. Janet - ROFLMAO about giving Ami's mom a bloody good slap. Or a few.
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I LOVE the "Bloody good slap" concept!!! Janet, you made my day AGAIN!!! :lol:
Love,
Changing
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I came to share and in reading what others shared, I have found comfort and relief from the saddnes I am feeling.
As I become real, moving through shame at the present time, my family is disappearing from my life.
My mother has shut me out as I change and become my real self, not under her control. She has no control of me anymore so I don't exist in the family anymore. Same thing with my nh. When I can't be controlled for supply, I am invisible and banished.
My daughter lives close by and I am watching as she is substituted for me in their control/supply. She is a willing victim to their abuse. For years I did not realize what was wrong. Now I do and I am gradually becoming strong enough in my self to detach myself from them. My daughter is not aware yet, and I can't tell her because when I do, she gets very angry at me and shuts me out. She has to go through her own process and I can't do it for her. So watching her go through what I already went through and survived is very painful. I really can't get involved with any of it in any way, even knowing what they say to each other. I am learning to stay out of it all.
That leaves me with me and my days and life to live without family contact. I needed my family. My (ideal) mother was hard for me to let go of. Now I find other ways to find the love I need. Still very difficult at times. I work at it. Right now I am mostly missing my (ideal) h. But not the n part of him and his n behaviors and the abuse. Just compansionship and relationship seems to be what I want most.
I have to remember what is real. Not what I want to be real. I am real and sharing here with others helps me stay real and gradually, one step at a time, one day at a time get to be my better self. Living, not just surviving.
Thanks, BR
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Thank you Amber, Iphi, Changing and Betsy(my favorite name )
I appreciate your posts so much---Thank you so much.
I have to tell you where I am ,today. .
I have a slight "detachment" from the "voice".. This is very big. Maria came over.I feel that I am stronger and more authentic.I feel more able to be "me". I feel more able to admit flaws.I feel more able to say,"I don't understand that" or" I don't know how to do that'. I said that I will never be a good housekeeper and I probably won't --so what? I get by-lol.
I saw Tori Spelling on an interview. She never knew how to use a washer or dryer. She was not ashamed of it.
Today,I feel such a heavy depression over me. I will do the inner child exercises and see what it is.
I feel more 'part" of the human race. Yes,I had a horrible mother,but her damage is not permanent. I just have to keep digging until I get to "gold"--- my core.
Ami
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Dear Betsy,
You said s/thing profound. You miss the "ideal" H and M. I miss the ideal M very much. I lived in fantasy b/c I thought that I needed her in order to live.I think that what I need is me-- that connection to myself
Love Ami
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My Yorkie ,Mimi, came to me as a gift from God. She teaches me so many lessons. She is like a baby. She wants to be on your lap or next to you. She has 'needs' like a baby would have. My Poodle is totally different.
I see that it was not my fault that I needed love and was 'dependent" on my M. It was built in to me like it is built in to Mimi. Mimi is not bad that she is too "dependent' or needs too much love.
I think that I can forgive myself for keep going to my M and needing and wanting love. It was built in. She made it like I was "bad" when it was instinctual to need love and connection. I kept going back for love until now when I am NC. I have been so angry at myself and thinking that I was so stupid. It was a human need ,just like Mimi needs connection.It must be built in to the breed.Yorkies, like it is built in to humans Ami
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We all want to feel love but more importantly we want to feel accepted and valued. Problem is to be valued we had to reflect back on to our mothers the way they wanted us to be. I never fit that mold from the time I was a young tyke. I had too much energy and vim and vigor for her-I was too much work! A bother. SHE Had things she wanted to do with HER life and only a perfect reflection of her would be enough.
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Dear Kelly,
I can see that with Mimi. She has so much energy that I want to "strangle" her sometimes. Also, I can see 'N"thinking in me.When she would have an accident,I would think,"How can you do this to me?"I would realize that it was crazy thinking. HOWEVER, the N doesn't. THAT is the difference,I think.
I have been really trying to put the N in a category in my mind, as a means to "let it go". I see that we all have the N within us. It is the ,"Look at me. Arn't I great(important, wonderful etc)?". However, as we matured, we developed other parts of ourselves. So, we have parts that can be considerate of others even if we don't "want' to be. When you have children, you have to put your needs aside all the time. The N has no emotional program for doing this. It is like me with Mimi. The N thinks,"Why are you(the kid) doing this to me(making me look bad or feel bad)?"
I see that it IS arrested emotional development. We all have this inside us,I think,but we have other sides as well. There is a book Small Sacrifices by Ann Rule. It was about an MD who killed her children.They did an evaluation on her and she had the emotional maturity of a 5 yr. old.
She was an ER doctor. My M always had so many excuses why she had a "bad" life. However, with this doctor, she had a "Good " life and her emotional immaturity ruined it. None of her achievements" "matured" her.
I am at the last stage of denial. I see that my M is a NPD. I did not want to face it.I thought--maybe--it was not "that bad",but it is. I am NC.now. I told my F that I would not call. He had to call me.
I came to the bottom of the lie(with her). Now,I have to address ALL the lies inside me-----bleh---- Love Ami
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I wanted to write something before I went out. I made some progress. This is the first time that I can remember "really" getting s/thing in the heart. I really saw how I was codependent.I really saw how I gave my power away for the hope of s/one else defining me. This is really huge. I really saw how my M is an NPD. I saw how I am alone. I saw how I better take care of me or I am screwed.(This one is still a work in progress)
However,I am different today. It is small,but 'big". Any true heart change IS big, b/c true heart changes are rare and hard(IME). Head changes are easy. This is the first step I ever made to changing codependence(heart step).
What is really scary is seeing HOW bad I was. I was so "lost"in my thinking. I hated myself SO badly. I was really "out there'in my thinking. I was very "abnormal". It is a 'shock" to me as I get a little better. I guess that I couldn't help it. Who would get this bad if they could?Probably my M cannot help being an NPD, although she can control individual actions.This makes sense to me. What do you think? They can't help their 'overall" thinking but they can control individual actions.
I guess what I am saying is it is scary to see HOW bad I was b/c I got a little more "normal". My goal is to get like my Aunt. My Aunt loves and respects herself. She does not have to be the "best" at anything. She thinks that she is "good enough". She can laugh at herself and she can see life as it is, She can see herself AND life as it is. This is my goal. Love Ami