Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sunblue on November 05, 2007, 06:37:29 PM
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Well, it's that time again. Halloween decorations are down and that means preparation begins for the "big" holidays---Thanksgiving and Christmas. Along with the traditional shopping, baking and gift wrapping comes that special type of dread that those on the receiving end of Ns know so well.
I keep getting hit with reminders of all the "family loss" I have. All those family activities, commercials and events that are advertised at this time of year doesn't help.
This has been an absolutely horrible year for me....a year filled with loss and rejection. For some reason, I keep getting hit with reminders of this.
Today, my reminder came in the form of a benign story told to me by my young niece. She was excited about her weekend plans where she and her mom and dad took a short road trop to a popular state attraction to enjoy the fall colors and events. It hit me hard because just two months ago, I planned a whole trip to this very spot. I created a special invitation, made reservations, planned it all out and make the surprise invitation special for my niece and her parents. But alas, my "healthy" brother refused to go so I had to cancel the whole thing. (He claims he felt uncomfortable by my gesture and no matter how I tried to negotiate it, he refused.) So today, I hear about what a gream time they all had at the very place I planned a nice weekend away, a mini-vacation I desperately needed because of the year I've had.
Now, with Thanksgiving just 3 weeks ago, I have this huge pit in my stomach. I think it's because this year I've realized that in addition to distancing himself from my Nparents, he is doing the same thing to me. I'm left to be this item on a check list where he feels obligated to check on me every once in a while. Just like I was an item on a grocery list. He does the same with my Nmom. Every week, he makes a five minute phone call to her just to check in. But on Thanksgiving, my brother and his family host dinner. Because my sick N parents spend all their time (including holidays) with my Nsister, I am the only member of his family there. So it's me and about 18 other people, all of whom are from my sister-in-law's family. To say I feel out of place there is an understatement.
Now hosting this holiday is important to my bro. My bro likes to have certain activities such as this holiday to provide a superficial semblance of family, largely for my niece's sake, I think. But I guess I'm feeling that if you don't care enough about me to spend any real time during the course of the year, particularly when I really need it because I am alone and have had a very tough year, then what's the point of sitting around a Thanksgiving table?
I've been thinking that this year I will "call in sick" to his Thanksgiving holiday and just stay home and watch some movies and such. My heart aches from the realizations I've made this year, particularly as it pertains to my brother. It just hurts. I feel rejected. And believe me, I don't need any more rejection. All year has been one big rejection as I continue to get turned down for job after job that I interview for. I am extremely depressed and hurt.
I am so dreading these holidays. I wish I could crawl in a hole. I wish I could sleep them away. I wish I could find a way to forget that not one person, especially not one person in my family, cares about me. I wish there was a pill I could take that would erase all the memories I have of the rejection and betrayal my family and everyone else has heaped on me.
I'm sorry for venting about this. Today's conversation was just such a trigger. I've had a lot of job rejections lately and that hasn't helped either. My brother's treatment of me really hurts. I always thought we had a somewhat close relationship. Perhaps because I so desperately wanted that. The truth is the only people he really cares about are his wife and daughter. If I play any role in his life, it is a very fleeting and superficial one. It hurts when the person you want a close relationship with doesn't want one back.....and that it will never change. I don't want to be just that person that has a seat at the Thanksgiving table. I want my brother to want to spend time with me, apart from his family and separate from those obligatory "family" occasions like Thanksgiving and Christmas and birthdays.
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Dear Sun,
Don't apologize for sharing your feelings. That is what the board is for(as I see it, anyway)
For me, I want to face the truth of my life( even IF it is "bad'). If not, we are in denial.
One thing that my former cop b/f used to say that he was healthy b/c he did not lie to himself. I did lie to myself and I still do.
I have not really faced what my H is like ,yet. I really cannot force myslef to come out of denial any faster than my mind can handle.
Sun,I think that you are facing the 'truth" about your B. I agree with you about Thanksgiving.
Maybe,you are holding on to a relationship with your B and you are doing all the holding. Maybe, you are strong enough to face it,now.
I ,always ,feel "less than" when I see people gather together with family around the holidays. i wonder how much of the "happy family" that I see in others is another N delusion from my M. I really wonder. I thought that my. friend had a big ,close family. As I got closer--OUCH. There is a lot of pain, there.
When I would visit friends from college, I could feel the 'sickness" in the families that I visited. I have lived with N thoughts for so long that I really don't kNOW what is real and what is fantasy. I guess as I heal,it will become clearer. I HOPE so.
I think that you are in better place than when you came on the board. You could not have faced the relationship with your B as clearly then as you are now. I am sorry for all the hurt, Sun Love Ami
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I really feel badly for anyone who dreads the Holidays.
Somewhere along the way I began to dislike Holidays and then dislike turned to hate , then hate turned indifference, then indifferemce turned to barely remembering they are here. That is where I have been for about 5 years so dread is no longer an issue.
I have a big red glass ball that is a celing hanger and received it in 2002--it is still in the same place and has been there since first hung. It is no longer Xmasy to me.
I also have 2 Xmas suncatchers hanging, one on each of two living room lamp shades and they have been there for a few years too--all year round.
I have a door hanger of that dumb Sesame Frog but he is called Mistle-Toad. I put him on my door because my apt. neighbours have something on theirs.
I no longer have anyone with whom to exchange gifts, so I don't think about Xmas
Halloween cannot take place in a high rise (leaving children on their own)
Easter means fattening chocolate, or hard boiled eggs that I would rather have as egg salad.
New Years STILL makes me think of Joe and how we had Chinese Food and Wine, at midnight!
Love
Izzy
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Sorry to hear you are down and depressed about the holidays and that it's been a bad year for you. I know the feeling. Also sorry to hear that it seems that your brother is distancing himself from you. The vacation story would make me feel sad too.
So, what can you do to lighten your down feelings? What can you do for yourself to make yourself feel better? For me, I got out of my depression by forcing myself to figure out what I can do to change things or do things so that I feel better, like exercise, take a walk, a hot shower, watch movies, etc. These are small things, but when a person is down and depressed, even doing small things to make ourselves feel better is so important. So, why not do something nice for yourself?
How about thinking of the holidays like this: In less than 2 months, it will be a new year: a new begining, an invitation to change and improve our lives, a chance to start over, to be reborn. Perhaps you can re-evaluate things in your life, like your relationship with your brother. Sorry if this is too blunt, but it sounds like he's pulling away. Perhaps he's pulling away because he feels like you are trying too hard to be close, I'm only guessing. Perhaps if you pull back a little, he will make more efforts towards you. But even if he doesn't, you will still be OK. You can work on your own projects, develop your own hobbies and your own interests. Perhaps take a class and learn a new skill. You can take the energy which you were using to focus on your niece and brother ( like the vacation) and put that energy into you. You can work on you.
I tune out that part of the holiday season that I hate, the syrupy sweet family portraits which I think are only Hollywood fiction. I think for most people the reality is a dysfunctional family Christmas. I focus on what I enjoy about the holidays, the lovely music and decorations {not the garish ones] and the crisp cold weather.
HTH
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I identify with your dread, blue.
I also don't necessarily blame your brother from distancing himself so well from all that is his parents.
You're part of that household..... even if you aren't like them.
He must see you as part of them.
Can you sit down and honestly give that some thought?
Maybe he's not as healthy as you thought.
Maybe you've been a part of some struggles you didn't think he identified you with?
Maybe you've made him feel shame over abandoning you with them?
Maybe it's nothing to do with you at all but I'd like you to gain some clarity on this and not just withdrawl from him.
Do you want him to call and be concerned that you aren't there?
Do you want him to show up and get you?
Do you want him to just let you go without a struggle?
Do you really just need a break from that Holiday and desire the down time?
I don't know or suspect the answers to any of those questions.
But I want you to KNOW the answers and I want you to get more of what you want and need.
If your brother really is a healthy family member you'd like to spend more time with, then don't start creating even more distance than there already is, KWIM?
If you're hurt over this distance...... you can work on reducing that distance... or not.
I'd prefer that you sit down and journal everything you feel, think and fear about this.
Read it.
Go back and write for another hour.
Read it.
Go back and write for another hour.
Distill it down to the facts and be clear on what they are.
If you still have doubts or worries...... you'll most likely have it clear enough in your head that you can talk to your brother about it with calm clarity.
I do hope you find a way out of your parents house, for your own sanity.
I think it might bring you and your brother closer if he's not associating you with them..... though I could be wrong.
Whatever you do..... please don't skip that Thanksgiving dinner...... if you don't want to.
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Dear Vita,
You have so much wisdom in your post--simple wisdom. Thank you.One day,I forced myself to do simple ,nice things like that for myself and I felt so much better.
Keep sharing and welcome, Vita Love Ami
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Amber, I have to get ready for work but I want to thank you for this vision of the best possible way to get through the holidays.
Your Tgiving feast and Xmas trip fantasy is EXACTLY what I daydream about every year. After Mom passes away, I'll do it. (My D does not do Xmas.)
I find the whole thing so horribly invasive and oppressive and all I've wanted in recent years is peace on earth, one candle lit, and that's enough.
xo
Hops
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I really wish I could respond to this thread with some sort of advice, but I can't since I dread the holidays too. I'm going to my brother's for Thanksgiving, and I'm really nervous about it because I don't know how that will turn out. I'm afraid of seeing my parents, but I promised I would go.
I'm even more nervous about Christmas.
Thanksgiving and Christmas have always been big affairs in my family. Everyone goes to my mom's, even though there's only six of us. Everyone tries to outdo on gifts and food. There's all sorts of backbiting comments, like last year when my mother complained right after she opened it about the gift I'd made for her.
This year, I haven't even wanted to think about gifts, decorations, or anything else. I'd love to just go away and forget about the whole thing. I've had that fantasy for a few years now, especially at Thanksgiving.
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Sunblue,
I know how painful it can be too.
I am sorry you are in that situation..
I found a support group and started my own tradition with them. AT Thanksgiving I was no longer alone.
The the nh took over after joing the same group and I was out for 3 years.
This year I am going back turkey and all. I am looking forward to it.
When I was alone, it didn't sound like fun to have holidays without family.
All I can say is it was not at all like I thought it would be.
Being alone was too painful after years of family dinners and events.
I had to find where I belonged and I am grateful to be going again.
The food is great too! and we even have a raffle! and sometimes I win!
Thanks, BR
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Thank you all for responding and allowing me to vent. I will be honest and say right now I am in a very depressed state so my vent probably reflected that.
Shunned:
I just loved your idea about the "beach" Christmas tree. In my family, I was always the big Christmas person. I have an extensive collection of Christmas decorations and ornaments, including a set that is all beach related. As I traveled to different places ( I love the beach so I often traveled to warm weather climates), I would pick up an ornament or two so the collection is also a reminder of those travels. I have to live with my parents right now due to my current financial situation, so I decorate the house, inside and outside. I do it mostly for myself since my Nparents never appreciate anything I do and no one else, my Nsister included, would ever lift a finger to do it. I can't really do many things for myself this holiday since I'm not in a position to do that. It's the time of year I wish I had friends but I don't at this time. but I usually run those movies which are my favorites and watch them.
Lighter:
Thank you for your comments as well. You made some good points. I did just want to further clarify my intention regarding my brother and Thanksgiving. I don't consider myself a manipulative person so I'm not trying to play any games about not showing up for Thanksgiving. I don't want him to come and get me. I don't want him to call me and see if I'm okay. I don't want him to worry about what's wrong. This isn't a play for sympathy or anything. Instead, there are a couple of key reasons that at least for now, I'm thinking of taking a pass on the dinner. First, I am seriously and clinically depressed. I have been all my life but at this particular time because of my financial and job situation and other things, the depression is at an all time low. Being around all these people who are at good places in their lives and who will immediately question me about why I haven't found a job yet would, frankly, be difficult for me to deal with when at the end of my rope. Second, the truth is I am really, really hurt by my brother's behavior. Moreover, I also know he doesn't "get" why I would be so hurt. He thinks he has done nothing wrong because he doesn't understand my point of view. He has everything he wants in this world (except, as with me, loving, non-N parents). So, I guess I just don't know how to be there and intereact and pretend I don't feel betrayed and hurt by the fact that it doesn't matter to him. I also realize that this scenario triggers my reality with people in general. My feelings and need to spend time with them is never reciprocated. So I always feel rejected and alone. It just has hit me like a ton of bricks that this time it is my brother. He was the only person I had left and it really hurts that he doesn't want a close relationship to me. So because of these two main reasons, I just thought it would be better for me to stay home, watch some movies, cry through my depression and deal with the loss the best way I can. Unlike my Nmom and Nsister, I don't want to manipulate anyone. By the way, this summer when I was feeling really bad, I told him that what I most needed was for him to spend a little more time with me. He acknowledged that over the last few years he hadn't spent that much time with me which he attributed to a new job he had. I didn't buy it. He has time for everything else. In my view, if you truly care about someone, you make the time. So I feel that he doesn't want to make the time and that is what really hurts. Right now, I am stuck in a hopeless situation. Despite all my effots I can't seem to find a job which means I can't move from my parents. It is all kind of a vicious circle. Right now, I could just use some hope and more than a little luck.
Vita:
You are right. The Hallmark version of family just doesn't exist. Although, I wish I had a family like the one portrayed on that TV show, "Brothers and Sisters". THey fight and argue and disagree but at the end of the day, they are always there for each other in time of need. To me, that's a more realistic version of family although obviously FAR, FAR from my own reality, and I'm sure the reality of most people here.
IsItTooLate:
I'm so sorry that you're not able to enjoy the holidays anymore. I so feel for you. Holidays have the potential for providing such nice times and I wish you had the opportunity for good holiday memories. Even when I lived alone, I would decorate the little place just to cheer myself up. It is an overwhelming time of year, especially for those with depression and sadness, so you have to do whatever you can to get yourself through.
Ami:
Thank you for your support. I can appreciate your comments about being in denial. Maybe I am. I don't know. It just seems that whenever I make this big realization or a "breakthrough" as some therapists call it, it is always a negative. It always means yet another loss. I just can't take any more losses. I have lost everything and am desperately trying to hold on. I do think the holidays reinforce the realities of your family, whether that is good or bad. I think it would be easier if I had my own family to start my own traditions with. It would kind of takes your mind off of how disappointing your own family is. Unfortunately, I don't have that option. Thank you again for your support!!
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Amber:
Tay: the real kicker for me, is that my mom is now sending me back all the presents I made or gave her over the years.
Oh, my mom is giving me back all the things I gave her now for gifts. I got jewelry I'd given her for my birthday because she didn't feel like going out.
And she's asked for things she gave me back. Don't understand that one . . .
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author=Shunned link=topic=6056.msg97767#msg97767 date=1194365164]
Tay: the real kicker for me, is that my mom is now sending me back all the presents I made or gave her over the years.
Gift cards are a good thing!!
All that have received gifts from me over the years have commented on my thoughtful selection process in gift giving. Love carefully choosing presents and small 'thank you' gifts, truly is a genuine pleasure.
Some years ago, during a visit to my NSister and BIL (at the time NM had shut me out, along with my Brother) and imagine my surprise when been shown around their new home to see on display ....... items that had been my Christmas and or Birthday gift to my NM :shock:
Well, my expression was such that my BIL asked if I was feeling alright - and so I told him. My BIL was clearly shocked ......
....... but my NSister laughed.
At the time, the whole scenario felt very much like a 'twilight zone' experience.
Love, Leah
PS ..... RE: why limit yourself to the Charles Dicken's vision of what the holidays "should" be? .....
...... "Humbug" to the image of a Dickensian rosy fire and hearty happy family Christmas :lol:
True happy family life; is of genuine selfless love, kindness and support and should be all year round - not just on the one big day of the year!
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Christmas presents seem to be a symbol of something for Ns given the stories here. In my dysfunctional family, my Nmom and co-dad were very generous in the gift-giving department. Of course, my Nmom would buy the gifts SHE liked or were in HER taste. Even to this day she'll buy a clothes item for someone that she would wear. When I point out that the gift recipient doesn't like that style or such, her curt response is, "It's my money and I'm going to buy what I want." Not exactly a great gift giving attitude. But of course gift giving is about thinking of the OTHER person. Ns are incapable of this. They are much too selfish. My Nmom has also always refused to buy my niece toys. She thinks they're silly and a waste. Instead, she buys my niece clothes in the style my Nmom likes.
My Nsister who is just, well, extreme in every N respect always made herself the center of attention at holidays. Because she makes a lot of money, she would just lavish my Nmom with gifts at Christmas....ridiculous things with ridiculous price tags. My Nmom would of course go on and on about how beautiful they were, but after the holidays return as many as she could to get the money. Money and material possessions are so critical to the identities of my Nmom and Nsis.
Ironically, when it came to myelf and my brother and his family, my Nsister would never purchase appropriate gifts. She would buy really silly, childish gifts for me and she would buy gifts for my sister-in-law that were equally inappropriate. My Nsister really resented my sister-in-law and was very condescending to her, as she was to me.
Because of some really hateful things my Nsis did to my brother and myself, we no longer have anything to do with her, not for over 10 years really. So we no longer see her on holidays. Just fine with me since she is incredibly evil and damaging. However, over the last few years, out of the blue, my Nsis will send me birthday gifts (I have a December birthday) or Christmas gifts. She is incapable of communicating with my brother or I in any adult manner so she thinks if she just sends a gift, all will be forgiven and fine. My Nparents of course just can't understand why the presents don't cure anything. They view my sister's gifts as a gesture and indication she wants to resolve everything. (She never sends anything to my brother or his family whom she disowned completely 11 years ago so in my book, she doesn't want to "resolve" anything.) I have repeatedly told my parents that if she really wanted to reconcile with my brother and I, and I'm not sure that is possible, the very first step would be to communicate, to talk. Presents don't come into the picture and wouldn't for a very long time.
At any rate, the last couple of times my Nsis sent me Xmas presents out of the blue presented interesting scenarios. Of course, I didn't want the presents and had no intention of keeping them. I didn't want to encourage my evil sis in any way or make her think everything was ok. So I didn't open the gifts and intended to send them back with a short but civil note in which I acknowledge the gift but tell her that given the circumstances I did not feel comfortable accepting that. Well, before I could do that, my Nmom literally flew into a screaching tirade and screamed at me, "I WILL NOT allow you to hurt her." She directed my dutiful, co-dependent dad to rip the gifts out of my hands at which point she tore open the wrapping paper, took the items out and stored them somewhere. It was sickening. Disgusting to witness and be a part of. I realized that the only person my sick, Nmom cared about was my equally sick Nsis.
Ahhh, so Christmas gifts are a weird topic in my N family. I think the Ns in my family believe expensive gifts can fix all problems. My Nsister disowned my brother and his entire family, ruined his wedding, wrote hateful letters, and demanded all my parents' time and attention which she has finally gotten. She destroyed my family with my parent's support. So the last thing I want is some gift from her.
For Ns, the gift giving is always about them, never about the recipient. It's about showing off their money or generosity or cleverness. My Nsister would quite literally sit herself in the center of the room during the gift giving at Christmas while everyone surrounded her. That image just strikes me now. Both she and my Nmom act like a queen on a throne. It's so hard to rid yourself of images like the one I described about my mom ripping gifts out of my hands. It's so obvious she cares nothing about me.
As for me, I have always been known in the family for being very generous with gifts but putting lots of thought into finding gifts that delight the recipient. I truly try to think of the other person. But I also now realize that part of all the effort and money I put into the gift giving process has something to do with the fact that I feel that if I make them happy, they will like me or return some of my feelings.
I think the gift giving processes in Nfamilies say a lot about the individuals. I still enjoy shopping for my niece and his family...but it's difficult for me to put any heart in the ones I get for my parents. Especially when I know they continue to choose to spend the holidays with my Nsis. It's all kind of superficial.
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Holidays like Thanksgiving and Christmas have a lot of painful memories for me. Dealing with Narcissistic Rage-aholics, especially when they got intoxicated, was a nightmare!
Bones
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Dear Sun,
I can feel that you might be angry at me for mentioning about denial. It is O.K. for you to be angry.I had trepidation when I said it.I "knew' that it was not a "warm fuzzy", so so speak.
I have been on the board for a year. That is a year of people's wisdom, love and experience. You just got on. When I first got on the board,I could not face the truth of my life very well. I still really can't that well. However, I ,now, realize that the key to healing is facing the truth-- no matter how bad it is. We can only face the truth a little at a time ,though.
I know that I gave a painful opinion,but I did it b/c I wanted to offer the best experience that I had to you.
Also, I could be mistaken about the whole situation. I am very sorry for the pain you are going through.It is real and it is horrible. You were treated horribly by your parents. Your B seems to be trying to "save his own" life by distancing from everyone in the family. You are being hurt by the family dysfunction.
As long as you keep sharing your feelings, you will reclaim your life(IMO). Sun, share whatever is on your heart.There is no time table for healing or for grieving.
Love Ami
((((((((((((((Sun)))))))))))))
((((((((((((((((((((Sun)))))))))))))))))))))))
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Sun... Honestly, I'd rather eat a bug than go to a big social gathering when I'm depressed and struggling.
There's nothing wrong with taking some down time, crying when you feel like crying and sinking into the wonder that is escapism tv, and books, when you're feeling that way.
I just wanted you to be aware of how you really feel about Thanksgiving Dinner at your brother's house and what it means, to you and him, if you skip it.
::sigh:: ((Sun)) I hope you're feeling better soon.
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Hi Ami:
Please know that I am in no way angry at you. I would be the first person to admit that it has taken me a long, long time to 'see" that things will not change in my family and to understand the "sickness" that is my Nmother and Nsister. My "healthy" brother is one of those "tough love," "call it the way it is" type people and he is always and forever telling me that nothing's going to change so just accept it. So I am not angry at all about your comments about denial. I don't think I'm so much in denial as much as I am in a lot of pain and filled with loneliess and rejection. Even when you see the dysfunction and narcissism in your loved ones, you can't help but still wonder why they chose the children they did or why they continue to do the things they do. I think it's because their behavior is so inconceivable to most people.
I am just in an incredibly bad place in my life so the holidays just remind me of that. As much as I dread the upcoming Christmas holidays, for me New Year's is even worse. It reminds me of my bad situation and how last year I was in the same place with nothing to show for it and not much hope for anything better. It is a really lonely time. Add the Nfamily situation and clinical depression to that and sometimes it can be just overwhelming.
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Dear Sun,
The first step to healing is to accept exactly where we are. You were abused and rejected. It is not your fault that you FEEL abused, rejected and sad. I believe that we have to embrace the truth of where we are.
W e need to talk about it as long as we need to. There is no time table to "getting over it". I want to hear you talk as long as you want and need to. That is the first step(IMO)
You have a lot to grieve. S/times people "get over it" too fast and it is not a "real" healing.
That is just my opinion. Love Ami
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I think that big part of our depression around the holidays is our perception of other people's families. I really wonder if it is really that good in other people's families?
I know that My M gave me such screwy expectations of other people(They were perfect and I was bad) that I really don't see life" right" at all.
My next stage of growth is to face myself and to face life---as it is.I really don't quite know what that is ,yet. I am sure that I will find out just like I did with my M--bleh. Love Ami
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Hugs and love to all! Sun, a big one to you especially.
I have nothing big to add other than to say, that this year, I hope it is a little different for us all. Some gesture of friendship from an unplanned visitor. Or some generous act of kindness that comes our way. Too much sadness.....too much hurt.....has happened here. I hope it can be different because WE are different. We know our principles. We know who we are dealing with. We know the limits of all of it. I think we can help ourselves through acceptance. Let go of our expectations.....our comparisons.......our wishes that were never met........and just accept. Live in the now. Be grateful for the now and the blessings of today.....of THIS holiday season. The beauty and benevolence of today. Give ....... be grateful........and then give some more. There is much joy to be found in lots of unexpected places. Especially if it is the joy you give to another! Joy that so desperately needs to be given.....even to those who deserve it the least!
Happy Holidays! It is happy! We are not the people we used to be. We are better. And because of that.....life is better. So don't let us feel sorry for ourselves.........well, maybe we need a little cry.....but then let's dry our eyes and appreciate what we do have! And what we CAN do and CAN create.
Much love,
Poppy
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Dear Poppy,
Thank you so much for your validating and very uplifting posting.
This Christmas, lots of little simple joyful things that I am planning to do with my time during the holdiay season.
Love,
Leah "no more tears"
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MMMmm...
Shepherd's pie.
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Thanks so much, Poppy. I can't tell you how much I always appreciate your words. You are beautiful, gentle and wise.
Bill
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Poppy, that was beautiful.
Thank you.
Made me want to cry though.
My D won't do Xmas, doesn't come home.
And my Nmother doesn't get joy.
So it really is a hard time.
But you remind me that if I want to make somebody ELSE happy, I sure can.
I've got other old people on my list...Nmom's old gentleman friend, for one.
He's 95 and we're his only "family" and I do care for him dearly. So I'll make sure he's with us.
I'm so glad you have that crowded bungalow, and the good sense to not do turkey!
love,
Hops
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Dear Amber,
Thank you for your description of a 'normal" holiday. I have so many screwy perceptions of life. I really want to see the truth---in all situations.
Love Ami
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The holidays in our society are merchant-driven. I love the idea of showing love freely, but hate the whole consumer trap.
When I was a child I was cruelly left out of much of the holiday scene. I hate to see that even today, and sometimes round up people so we can provide gifts to the children of Skid Row, or the children of prisoners ( I haven't done anything this year- maybe I should contribute to the fund for the children of prisoners, but what they really need every year are drivers to bring the items- I don't think I can commit to that with everything that is going on) . These children are often completely left out of the holidays. I now know that the Christmas holidays were arbitraily and innacurately set at the time of the Roman Saturnalia, which featured feasts , drunken parties, etc . The lights and such do give a boost during the long dark nights, but they have little to do with Christmas, which should be in the spring. So I don't get too caught up in them, enjoy what I can, and try to ignore the horrific Christmas music blaring everywhere, especially cover versions of classic songs- Yucky. Every half-baked artist does a terrifyingly cheerful and disgustingly insincere Christmas album- Uggh.
Thanksgiving can be good, but our society mythologizes that also. Lobster was the main dish, I think. In fact, lobster was so plentiful in the early colonies that a law was passed that indentured servants could not be fed lobster more than a few times per week, as this was viewed as cruelty!!! e have so much to be thankful for, and so much reason to share with others who may not have all that they need.
Love,
Changing
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. In fact, lobster was so plentiful in the early colonies that a law was passed that indentured servants could not be fed lobster more than a few times per week, as this was viewed as cruelty!!! e have so much to be thankful for, and so much reason to share with others who may not have all that they need.
Love,
Changing
Changing.... I so agree with the whole spririt of Christmas being lost in a consumer driven purchasing frenzy: /
I wish I was brave enough to require my FOO particpate in some service driven activities.... or break off and leave them to their usual Christmas while I do other things with my children.
I just don't think I have the energy, right now.... to push it.
Maybe it'll come?
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I figured out something in a worship associates meeting this week.
We were doing our usual circle check-in...so I explained that I
f***ing hate the holidays. Bit startling to say that, but both
ministers were as accepting as everybody else.
But once I said that little display...then a light went on.
I realized that my REAL goal is to be indifferent. And they
got it. And I spoke a little more about that.
My real goal, and I may be closer than I think, is to just have
an inner boundary, or inner business, or inner sense of well-
being, that recognizes that for me, the "obligatory" holiday
atmosphere is toxic and tedious and ultimately, boring.
(I am glad it's happy for many folks. That's great.)
So it's about detaching. Just not letting it have any more
space in my mind OR emotions that I feel like assigning.
La la la. Good books. DVDs on subjects I choose. Etc.
And my Jewish friends. Or Buddhists. Or general UUs who
don't get into it either. They're around, and all I have to
do is ask. Make an invitation of my own.
Lord, here is the evil thing. I can do all these things with
peace and grace, but not while my mother lives.
That's not a very Christmassy thing to say. But it's true.
(Meanwhile, I have the choice to detach from HER own
holidays wishes and yearnings. Be kind and give her a treat
or two, take her to hear some music if she's up to it, and
other than that, just let it go.)
Hops
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The holidays in our society are merchant-driven. I love the idea of showing love freely, but hate the whole consumer trap.
When I was a child I was cruelly left out of much of the holiday scene. I hate to see that even today, and sometimes round up people so we can provide gifts to the children of Skid Row, or the children of prisoners ( I haven't done anything this year- maybe I should contribute to the fund for the children of prisoners, but what they really need every year are drivers to bring the items- I don't think I can commit to that with everything that is going on) . These children are often completely left out of the holidays. I now know that the Christmas holidays were arbitraily and innacurately set at the time of the Roman Saturnalia, which featured feasts , drunken parties, etc . The lights and such do give a boost during the long dark nights, but they have little to do with Christmas, which should be in the spring. So I don't get too caught up in them, enjoy what I can, and try to ignore the horrific Christmas music blaring everywhere, especially cover versions of classic songs- Yucky. Every half-baked artist does a terrifyingly cheerful and disgustingly insincere Christmas album- Uggh.
Thanksgiving can be good, but our society mythologizes that also. Lobster was the main dish, I think. In fact, lobster was so plentiful in the early colonies that a law was passed that indentured servants could not be fed lobster more than a few times per week, as this was viewed as cruelty!!! e have so much to be thankful for, and so much reason to share with others who may not have all that they need.
Love,
Changing
Changing,
My sentiments too, though I deleted my much earlier post.
Christ was born in September, not on the day that the Roman's decided because they wanted to use the winter solstice feast day.
Once you dig for the truth, and find it, all becomes crystal clear with lots of lights switching on!! :idea: :idea: :idea: :)
The crazy consumerism is appalling. Busy time for debt counsellors in the New Year.
Love, Peace, Kindness and Compassion should be 365 days of the year ---- not just one day.
Love, Leah
... who celebrates the birth of Christ every day.
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Dear Hops,
Do you have "bad " associations with the holidays? What are they,if you care to say? Ami
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Sure. My NishM came from a large religious family with skeletons in the closets, and she always approached holidays with a kind of fretful whiny attitude with many comments about Family...when I was drowning in loneliness and anxiety and knew, intuitively then if not why...that she didn't get the whole Jesus thing anyway. So we did a lot of anxious entertaining and anxious shopping and it was all so scripted and what for many folks is joyful ritual was for me, suffocating rite.
I've always loved the sacred music, still do.
My daughter decided some years back not to celebrate Xmas. At all. So I was stuck alone with Mom, fending off her constant relentless questions about my D's absence. And I was very hurt by it myself. It all added up to loathing the whole season. The consumerism being the worst part. It's begun already. Not even Thanksgiving.
There are only so many Christmasses you can go through that way until either your feelings about it change, or the situation does. My feelings have changed. I don't care any more.
love
Hops
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Dear Hops,
Thought of you this afternoon, when my friend emailed to let me know of an innovative idea, in the area she lives, during the period leading up to Christmas.
They are having lights on the trees in the local church area (which has an abundance of trees) and charitable fundraising events.
One tree is going to have notices placed upon it for many charities .....such as Darfur and India's out 'caste' children
... plus many many more. Fund raising activities and events are planned. I think it is an absolutely wonderful idea.
As I don't have children, the money I would spend on having a xmas tree in my front room, is going there instead!
Love, Leah
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Dear Hops,
I understand.It is the associations. It is like a "brainwashing". It just "sticks". I am sorry.I bet that you were the sweetest little girl. These N M's often have such great D's. Love Ami
((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))))))))0
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thanks, guys.
Right after Xmas I'll be spending a week with my daughter, so that should be good.
She'll be moving farther away in January to go to grad school, so I'll savor that time.
Meanwhile, suspended animation here.
Very slow winding toward the new year.
I'm looking forward to doing a service together with a good friend at church.
She's the one who also has an Nmother. We're about the same age.
No idea what we'll do, but it'll mean a lot to me to plan it with her.
I will angle for it to be something anti-relentless-holiday. A serious inner kind of thing.
I was worship associate today and it was a UU sermon on miracles (the Loaves and Fishes
story for the kids). I found a reading from Charlotte's Web, and that was fun to do.
My mother will be 97 on Tuesday. :shock: I took her out yesterday for dinner and
then we went to a poncy shop and found her 2 gorgeous sweaters. She was happy.
love,
Hops
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Eear Hops,
Charlotte's Web is one of my favorite books. What part did you use and what did you speak about,if you care to say? Ami
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Mr. Zuckerman has gone back to the house, shaken, to tell Mrs. Zuckerman what he saw at the barn.
It's a miracle, he tells her. We have a very unusual pig. She's alarmed at first but then just listens.
And he tells her about seeing on the spider's web: SOME PIG.
He keeps going on and on about what an amazing pig they have, and how the sign is a miracle,
and it is clear that this momentous thing is that they really have an extraordinary pig.
Mrs. Zuckerman says, I think you're off, I think we have an extraordinary spider. :D
(It was a Words of Welcome just to greet the congregation, have a laugh, and we had the children
for the first half. I was involved in handing out baskets of mysteriously multiplying goldfish crackers.)
This was more serious stuff I gave the minister, but he said it was too close to what he was
saying in his sermon so I found a poem instead...
[from a blog]
"If God was going to reveal himself to me I would hope it was through something better than finding my [lost] keys. God covering up for my ineptitude doesn’t exactly move me to worship. "[emphasis mine']
In what I've been reading about miracles, this is the only thing that has made the idea break out of the confusion for me. If it works for you two, I'd like to read a little bit from that blog/forum discussion. It was very helpful to me. Even as an agnostic, I worship. Even our secular humanists and atheists and every zebra stripe among us, when we gather together here, we are engaged in worship. The vocabulary for the object of our worship is for some of us debatable (I believe that faith is not found in the objects of sentences, but in their verbs). But not the gathering. Most all of us would agree, at least hypothetically, that we are really here this morning!
I don't think it's so much quibbling over what is or is not a miracle, or is any good thing that suspends the order of nature a miracle, or is everything everywhere all the time miraculous simply because it exists. I think what makes a miracle is the capacity within us to respond with worship. Or gratitude. Or presentness. Or love. Or right action.
[...etc.] That's kind of what I do in this role. The two years are over in January, and I'm relieved. I loved doing it but I'm tired.
thanks for your interest, Ami,
Hops
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I can tell you are a very inspiring worship associate Hops. I am in awe of your detached and dutiful care of your mom. You look after her with great constancy. This is no small thing or mere knack, but must be the result of evolution and gaining in wisdom - and this is where I stand in awe and appreciation of what you have accomplished. I strove constantly to reach that kind of place when I was caretaking (in such a rainbow of senses of that word) my dad; it was completely out of reach for me. But somehow I like to have an idea of you kicking up your heels on a beach somewhere (say, Aruba), wearing one of Uli's creations from Project Runway last year. Maybe that could be a plan for a future holiday.
Well, this topic definitely made me think of our holidays. I don't have any especial feelings about the consumerism (distaste) or the outward trappings (sometimes we did them, sometimes not). Our holidays were relatively okay as long as I did not mind my dad getting me what he thought I should have. This does make creating an xmas wish list perplexing because it is not so simple as listing what you want, but is an exercise in listing what your best guess your dad thinks you should have is. What a good little mirror! The Role is clear for a holiday like that and it means you work up genuine enthusiasm for receiving what your NP thinks you should have, just as if you really wanted it.
The next part of xmas I always found the hardest though. After the presents were open and "The Girls" (that's me and my sister) cleaned up - then the whole day was like Simon Says. The whole day was about absolute obedience to my dad's wishes and commands. Usually it was warm enough that we would wash his car. This is not a simple process where we go out and do it. No. My dad 'managed and supervised.' He sat and directed our every move, from how the wheels were soaped (thoroughly and copiously) to how the rinsing was to be accomplished (with sheeting action). If we were cooking, then he managed that. Don't get me wrong, normal weekends had a fair bit of this, but holidays for some reason were particularly intense. I think it was that he could extract extra in return for presents or something. It's hard to convey the total commitment of time and self to the will of another person, without any thought at all of what you want to do, would rather do, might like to do. I know sometimes, before I learned, I had the foolish temerity to verbalize what I would rather do, suggest something to do - ha ha, what a betrayal, how selfish.
One year when I was dating my H, he and I went up to visit for turkey day. As 'tradition' dictated, after dinner we (that is my sister and me, not my future H as an outsider) were available for the complete convenience of my dad. He had my sister and I catalog part of his book collection. He 'managed and supervised.' He had invented an exacting, multi-step process that involved him sitting at a computer from where he directed me to pick up a book and recite bibliographical information, for my sister to write in the number he assigned to the book and place it on the shelf or in a box according to his specifications. Then we would wait while he made an entry to the special database he had created. Oh my, what a jolly time was had by all. My future H was sitting out of everyone's sight line, except for me, and was silently laughing uproariously. Of course, as usual, I asked my dad why he did not use an existing database (Access) or existing catalog system (Dewey Decimal), but with the force of a thousand repetitions, my dad waved away my whinging complaints as female foolishness. Because Iphi still didn't get it, that it was not about that. I really liked it that my H laughed at my predicament. It was freeing that he saw the absurdity in it, and as Mr. Bennet says in Pride & Prejudice - "For what do we live, but to make sport for our neighbors, and laugh at them in our turn?"
The punch line, to me, is that ND was planning to give away some part of his collection but he wanted to catalog it before he did that so he could have a record of what he had previously owned. Mmmmmmmhmmmmmmm.
(Iphi, you just don't understand. These high, abstract things are too far above your venal, low mind.)
Holidays!
My idea of a holiday is to lie around doing very little (and certainly no car washing, intensive house cleaning, errand running for imaginary items from closed stores, or library cataloging(!)) other than reading several books at once, eating chocolate and dozing at will. Fortunately my H shares this view point. Ideally I would like to plan fun excursions for holidays and maybe as a parent I will so that my child doesn't climb the walls with boredom.
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Ohhh, Iphi. :shock:
Your Dad was no jolly farting Santa.
On top of the Nishness, he sounds awfully OCD.
Nasty, child-sucking mix! Ewww.
I am SOOOOOOOOO glad you now have an H who understands what's absurd. Wonderful.
Has that been very healing for you? How long have you been married to him?
Thank you for the gift of me sauntering about the Caribbean in an Uli dress...she was my favorite!
And that IS the future holiday dream. Bliss!
hugs,
Hops
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Hiyas Hops. I am tickled you liked Uli and also picture yourself on a beach. Must be an accurate vision then! You will confine your holiday decorations to, say, a plastic christmas tree swizzle stick.
Yes OCD PD was the first PD I wondered about with regard to my dad, but although it seemed to fit somewhat, it didn't satisfy all the mysteries in his behavior and motivations.
I see I didn't say though that we always had really good christmas stockings. It is actually a consideration that makes me wonder if my dad is wholly N. Could he be just N-ish? Anyway, he did always unfavorably compare his own childhood stockings as boring and he did tend to re-vision his childhood through us, so I'm not sure.
Yes I am profoundly grateful for my H's company. We met at the start of 98 and have been married since early 02. We both feel that we have grown a lot in positive ways through our relationship. We each felt that we were cynical and on the 'hard' side before we got together. It means so much to me that he accepts me, no fuss no muss and I strive to bring the most I can to the relationship.