Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Safe4Now on November 15, 2007, 12:36:55 AM
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Hi hope everyone's having a good nite. I certainly am. I just left my H of 4 mos. of marriage, only a few wks. back. Have a good councelor, schooled in abusive N/P's & am very appreciative. I've had sporadic email contact w/ my H. Until today. This morning I fired off a message stating that I want a divorce & no contact. Period. Of course, I got one back; full of projection, blame & crazy making...like I'm surprised? lol He said 1 thing that really made me laugh tho... HE was leaving me! Imagine.! The rest of the day I kept busy but I was in a bit of a funk. This evening I decided to call my sis-in-law. None of his family even knew I'd left. I like his family, save for his N mother. I didn't know at 1st what I'd say to her, then my story just flowed. She believed me, validated me, asked how I was...then she told ME stories. Stories that I now know are serious lies that my NPH told me & many others. He often poisened my mind against his family, except dear mom. Yet, it was his family that shunned him.More validation. My sis-in-law then told me to call all 3 siblings & their wives & tell them, since they'll have even more light to shed. What's truly sad is that I wasn't the only family member to suffer. After my mom's death, I was so looking forward to having many in laws.. Now that's ripped away from me too. But I can call (collect if I like) & cry on her shoulder anytime she said. So, in my heart she'll always be a sister. So what started out as a tense then gloomy day, became a night full of surprises & AHA's & some sad realizations for many people. I believe in God & have felt thru this process that I shouldn't hide under a rock. That I should tell the truth. Drag the evil from the darkness & bring it into the light. Secrets are damaging, truth is uplifting. That's how I feel right now...uplifted. I don't say this at the expense of my NPH ( altho, I am Very P***ed off).... to me, he's a self-condemned man. I don't even have to go there. He does it all by himself. And answer to God all by himself, b/c he no longer has a wife. Nite, thanks for reading my rant.
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Hi Safe,
Glad you are feeling upbeat. There will be difficult times, well he is an N but hang on in there. I have not been online for sometime but you seem very clear about your decision........... wish I had been so smart and not wasted my time and energy on such a waster. Anyway good luck
axa
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Dear Safe-
I am sorry that you are having so much to deal with (((((Safe))))). Like Axa, i wish I had taken the steps that you have, as early in my marriage. I knew then (didn't know about Ns, but I knew). I thought I could change,he could change, God wanted me to stay, blah blah blah- now all these years later and I am counting the days until I am free!!! I hope that you can work on your dreams now that "he has left you" (that is rather humorous, and typical N way of twisting things)
Hang in there!
Love,
Changing
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Dear (((( Safe ))))
Your wisdom is truly wonderful to hear.
Secrets are indeed damaging and truth is very uplifting.
With God on your side, giving you strength and wisdom, just know you are going to be okay.
So very heartwarming to know that you had a real mum and have many precious loving memories in your heart.
Glad to know that you have a good counsellor who is knowledgeable in the N/P disorderly behaviours.
So very happy to know that you are standing on the 'rock' and not hiding behind it!
The truth will take you onto a new life, along a much better way than the one NH would have taken you.
Much love & hugs,
Leah
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Being proactive, getting over the shame quickly.... reaching out.... holding them accountable immediately for physical abuse and threats by filing a police report and asking for a TPO is extremely important.
I don't know how you managed to understand that but you have.
Get ready for his craziness to escalate...... copy and save his e mails. Try not to respond.
No Contact is a wonderful thing..... for you.
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Dear Safe,
I hear a strength in you that I did not have it in my marriage. I think that you have the most important thing-- yourself.
You did not get denuded(it does not seem). So, you will be able to handle the situation without all these emotional issues burdening you.
I think that you will know what to do and how to do it if you listen to yourself and respect that "still small voice" inside. Love Ami
(((((((((((((((((Safe))))))))))))))))))
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Thank you for your words of encouragememt. I have been documenting & am bracing myself for escalation on his part. I was very fortunate when I lived w/ My NPH, in that I have a dear friend who's a psychiatrist. She helped me thru my mom's terminal illness & after she passed. When a bit of the grief fog lifted; was when I was able to see my H's behaviours more clearly. My friend, then showed me the criteria for an N & P in the DSM. At first, it was a shock, but I then read & researched as much as possible. Put 2 & 2 together, & voila....I left in a N.Y. hurry. I suppose I wasn't too surprised about H's diagnoses, since my mom a few yrs. back, had an NP co-worker who created complete havoc in her office.We'd email info back & forth re; Dr. Hare's book, so I was aware of these personality disorders. Being proactive has definetely helped me thru this first mo. Yet, I feel the need to embrace my emotional healing at his time; as painful as it is. Having No Contact will be a blessing as I journey on. My focus now will be on ME! And yes, I'm quite clear about my decision. But I don't think that it was about being smart or not, that I was able to wake up early on. My heart goes out to you who've endured this torture & continue to. I see that there are varying circumstances that lead us to stay for however long; Kids, money, wanting to believe it will go back to the honeymoon phase, etc.. The important thing is that your'e aware of the disorder, know that you can't do anything to change it & that the change has to come from within you. That's why were here; to support each other, no matter where we are in our journeys. I'm still apprehensive of my future; but I do know that I have loving friends, a great councelor & most importantly God above. I count my blessings ea. day, since I know that if I bought into my NPH's dream any longer, I wouldn't feel any support around me. I'm also thankful for this board. Your stories & wisdom sharing has helped tremendously. I do have a couple of questions; Ami -what is denuded? And how do I get rid of the white envelope beneath my name? I tried to get rid of it last nite, to no avail. Hence today, I'm not logging in until it's gone. Love & peace in Christ to all. Safe
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Love & Peace in Christ to you Safe,
The white envelope shows your personal email address.
You will need to log in and go to PROFILE
then at the left hand side go to Modify Profile and select ACCOUNT RELATED SETTINGS
then Tick Box with HIDE EMAIL ADDRESS FROM PUBLIC?
Rest assured, with the Tick Box activated, no-one else on the board will see the white envelope and have access to your personal e-mail address.
Love, Leah
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BRAVO, Safe.
Oh bravo.
Can you set your email account to automatically forward all emails from him directly to your attorney?
xo
Hops
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Hop...I don't have a lawyer yet. Yet being the operative word. Things work different here in Canada. I can wait a yr. & file for divorce. But if NPH wants to take the gloves off & fight me in court...it'll be a bad scene. I have enough to bury him already. He doesn't know where to find me to even serve papers on me.But I'll keep it in mind, if I have to retain one. So far, he hasn't emailed back...good. All's quiet on the front...for now. Leah, I tried doing the above...still nothing. Guess I'll have to go thru the site admin., do you know how I can contact them? Thanx, Safe
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Safe,
With the Tick Box activated no-one else can see the white envelope
You can
But we can't
Leah
Just looked at your posting as Safe4Now and white envelope is still there.
Ok
After entering the TICK in the Tick Box alongside HIDE EMAIL ADDRESS FROM PUBLIC?
did you scroll down to bottom of screen
and enter your CURRENT PASSWORD and click on CHANGE PROFILE ???
This you would need to do to activate the update/change
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Hi All...haven't posted for a while. I gave up trying to rid the white envelope, so I'm writing as a guest & can't start a new thread. Someday, i'll figure this thing out. lol It's the least of my worries at this point. A few wks. ago, I was so clear, felt so strong & empowered. I wanted a divorce & no contact. My no contact was breached 5 days later, when my NH emailed me w/ the news that he'd gone to see our priest. NH said, that he was told to wait til the new yr. to make any decision on annulment/divorce. Now he's going to bible study 1X a wk., mass 2X a wk., is decorating the church for advent & on the church bowling team. A cradle catholic who barely attended mass til he met me & now he's pratically moved in there. What's worse is, I caved in. It's working on me. I question what kind of person I am for not being forgiving, to not cast the 1st stone. After all, I'm no saint...I was a bad a$$ when I was younger; lied, led a hedonistic lifestyle & treated men like dirt. Maybe I deserve no better than I gave out. Perhaps I'm a masochist...I like to be dominated. Thought about that a lot lately. How my NH provided me w/ ways to fuel my sick little fantasies. Today is my brother's birthday. He's been dead 6 yrs. We were tight. Last yr. on this day, my NH was so sweet to me; offered to take me to the cemetary & was very loving all day. He even held me while I cried myself to sleep that night. But at around 2 am, I felt H's hands on me & he took me by force. I was in shock, barely awake, couldn't move or speak. Part of me remembers now, that I told myself I liked it. That's why I feel just as sick as he is. This morning I got an email from H, who wants to put flowers on my brother's grave, since I'm far away. I can't seem to shake this "connection" between my H & I. The holidays are looming; a sacred time for being loving & I'm missing the fellowship of my church. I miss my brother & my mom who's now buried in the same plot. And I miss my H. I guess I'm all over the map lately....thanx for letting me ramble. Safe
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Dear ((((( Safe )))))
Personally, I truly understand, as I found the run up to Christmas to be a most difficult and painful time; as I was in a strange place and all alone for the very first time in my life; after having left a refuge and found a flat, with divorce proceedings in place. And admittedly, there were moments that I actually romanticized and thought of going back, as preference to the feeling of shock emptiness that was mine, at that time.
Separation and loss is like grief. Separation and loss from your H, from people who mixed with, from your church, everything that was a day to day normality.
My heart truly reaches out to you, as you have more pain that i had to endure, as you also have the anniversaries of your dear ones, your mother and your brother, at this time.
Dwelling on your life with H in this way is absolutely normal, as was explained to me at the time.
Oddly enough, my now exH took my church from me also!! And it was most angst bearing at the time as he had not wanted to set foot in there previously! Honestly. Apparently, that is not an unusual angle either, something else I learned.
You will walk through this; walk into the light from all this darkness, believe me, I did, though at the time, I never thought I would.
Keep writing it all out as you feel led and comfortable, Safe.
Gentle thoughts of you.
With sincere empathy,
Love and a Hug,
Leah
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Hi Safe:
I'm sorry the roller coaster ride is so confusing..... but it's a roller coaster ride, no way around it.
Your husband didn't get where he is,in your head and heart,bc he doesn't know what makes you tick.
He does.
Please be aware of your intuition. It KNOWS THINGS. Pull back and observe his actions. You don't have to make any decisions right now.
You may notice he's playing on your sympathy. Asking for your pity after he's done some pretty awful things to you.
Turning around and playing good cop/bad cop to keep you coming back.... keep you hoping he'll change, keep you under control, maybe? Doubting yourself? Telling you that you caused some bad behavior on his part? Just listen to what he's doing, not what he's saying.
Blaming you isn't loving behavior..... no matter how many church bowling teams he joins.
It's OK to hope. It's OK to take refuge in that part of your relationship that offers safety. I used to call it 'keeping the demons away' but..... I just knew where the demon was..... and when my father fell apart after unsuccesful brain surgery.... when my friend was dying of cancer.... it made me feel better to have my ex husband "keep the demons away." He'd just sit by my bed...... after all the awful things he'd done and said to me.... I was comforted by his presense, bc of what he meant to me at one time. I knew I was the special part of that relationship.... what made him special was my belief, not him. He was never really safe for me and never wanted me to be OK. That was the reality.
If I ever let him back in.... it always went back to blaming and shaming and crazy anger on his part for things he'd done to me. It wasn't going to work. As long as I was independant and he wanted something from me...... he was kind and pleasant.... provided we didn't talk about anything important.
He finally realized that there was nothing for him here but friendship from a safe distance. He ended the relationship and that was that.
You don't have to love your H the way he wants. You can put yourself first, that's one of your jobs.
If he's truly an N..... then his kind words are spoken in currency..... he wants something from you and he's spending them wisely. He won't be wasing kind words when he doesn't want something from you.
That's no way to live..... waiting for a kindness that only comes when you're in revolt.
If you're anything like me, and your younger days remind me of myself, then you may crave serenity. You're willing to do and say things that aren't fair, to keep the peace. We're good people for demanding controlling people to have around. They don't think we deserve to be treated fairly... and on some level.... we agree.
You can do that for only so long.... then it becomes crystal clear that you can't bend over far enough, long enough, the right way..... in order to keep the peace. They require we bend until we break.... and then there's no pretending anymore, is there?
I wish we didn't have to come to that point of no return, before we figure it out, but it's often the case.
I don't like feeling the confusion you seem to be dealing with.
It's awful.
I wish I could buck you up and help you trust yourself.
If nothing else..... can you just sit with your feelings..... whatever they are..... sit with them and not DO anything about them for a while. Maybe keep a journal and go back to it..... sometimes seeing the details of our lives helps us find clarity over time. Always helped me when I could remember to do it.
If he loves you and cares for you,in a way that allows for you to be OK too.... he won't try to talk you out of your ideas about what's good for you. He won't constantly be trying to change your NO's, into YES's. He'll support you and help you, not keep coming up with reasons you shouldn't honor yourself.
Good Luck Safe
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If he's truly an N..... then his kind words are spoken in currency..... he wants something from you and he's spending them wisely. He won't be wasing kind words when he doesn't want something from you.
Lighter,
This is cogent to the point of poetry.
You use your mind...and what luck to be a witness. Thank you.
love,
Hops
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((((Hops))))
::offering Hops some Southern Comfort Egg Nog with a little nog:: MMmmm.... want some?
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Long as I get to stick my nose in nutmeg!
:)
Hops
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You can have the whole can..... I just want the sweet creamy smoothy goodness that is the egg nog.
I suppose I'll be good and sick of it by Christmas, lol.
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Hi Safe-
Sorry that you are feeling blue.
I too have had so many misgivings during the long dark nights of holiday season- was it really my fault, if I change would they love me then, etc. Being isolated makes it feel like any familiar connection at all would be welcome, even a hurtful one. I know that you will figure out what is truly best for you, and not let emotional vulnerability have the last word. Whatever you choose to do, do it from a position of strength. You know what is right. There is so much to explore and be happy about and there are so many worthwhile endeavors to give one's energy to in life- I hope you find some lovely people and things to engage with during the holidays.
I am so sorry about the tragic losses of your mother and brother. I hope that you find your mission in life, friendship and love and a place to belong and contribute- I know that your loved ones would have wanted that for you, and would want you to be happy. (((((Safe))))) God Bless You.
Love,
Changing
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Thank you all for your words of love & encourgement. I try to sit w/ my emotions & just feel, I journal a lot & yet I still feel numb. I wrack my brain to think of the bad times, the little things are the hardest to put my finger on....I come up empty & just remembering the fun we had together. I feel guilty for not being a good catholic & being by my husband's side, esp. w/ Advent coming.And the message that I'm no better, plays over & over. I wish I could shut my mind off....stop all the chatter. I woke up @ 2:10 am....couldn't breathe, sweating (I know it's not menopause- have those symptoms under control for a long time)....couldn't get back to sleep til 5. One thing that's really bugging me, is that this is the 1st time I've ever been married. I waited til my late 40's to say my vows b/c I wanted to be sure that the man I wed, I would be w/ for life. I had the perfect Catholic ceremony, mass & all...said my vows before God & meant them. My priest happens to also be a psychologist. I've emailed him, told him my situation & still he insists on working w/ my H. He wants me to wait & not make hasty decisions. I wish I could hate my H....would be so much easier; but I don't. Instead, I feel badly for him; that it wasn't his fault for having a bad childhood. I go to counceling ea. wk. & I haven't been able to access my deep emotions yet. I force myself to look for them & wind up numb & confused. It's like my head knows one thing & my heart feels the opposite. An internal battle, I can't seem to win. Does that make sense? Lighter...when you say "buck me up"...it reminds me of my mom; she's British & said it a lot.Thanx for that.It's definetely a roller coaster but not an enjoyable ride. I used to pull back, listen to the words H used & how he said them. Many times, I'd pull the reciever from my ear, look at it & ask "Who am I talking to?" Lately, it's not like that...I can't wait to hear his voice or look for his emails...I feel like i'm going nuts. Thank you again for all of your kind words. Safe
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Safe-
I will be praying for you. God gave you free will choice as a birthright. You have the right to choose and to use wisdom. Whatever you do, use your wisdom in doing it. One thing that could help in getting your mind clear is to do things that make you feel happy and strong, meet with friends, do nice things for yourself, exercise, do whatever makes you happy.
I love music and art and nature.These things give me perspective and strength. Whatever it is , you deserve to enjoy life and thereby give credit to those who have loved and cared for you. May you have God's comfort and protection and blessings.
Love,
Changing
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What happened to the Psychiatrist friend of yours?
Are you holing up alone..... or has everyone kind of withdrawn?
You need support.
Where did the people go who have an understanding about N's and how they operate?
Of course, your Catholic Priest wants to 'work on your H' he thinks he's seen everything and can fix everyone.
He's going to be a bit surprised if he tries to fix this N, I'm afraid.
Please stop with the guilt.... guilt sucks.
Please trust yourself..... pay attention to the obviouse and stop making excuses for the improbable.
The improbable is the story of what your H has done to you and his marriage.
There's no good reason to deconstruct either but..... that's what he's done.
Don't let him make you doubt that reality.... don't let him make you feel you're crazy.
You came on this board sounding strong and sure...... you were feeling confident about your feelings.
Your N's been working on you..... it's all over your posts.
Please, talk to the people who know something about N's and don't let eveyone else talk you into doubting yourself or what your N has done.
If he loved you..... and treated you well..... you wouldn't have been planning to divorce him 5mo into the marriage.
Pull back. Observe. I couldn't breath for a while there either.... something was actually locked up in me gullet..... my diaphram or something. It was nerves and shock..... confusion, pain and doubt working on me physically.
Oh.... I wanted to say this.... before I forget... about the post before this... something you said..
You may enjoy being dominated..... ::shrug:: that's part of you. Accept it.
Here's the thing...... that looks pretty OK now.... you can see dealing with that in your 40's, right?
What about in your 50's?
What will it look like in your 70's? When you're sick? When he's in charge of your care?
That's one thing that always sobered me up, if I got stupid and wanted to sink into what if's about staying.
I don't want to be at the mercy of someone who takes pleasure in deconstructing me.
I don't want to even think about it.
Where's your line? If you don't know yet...... you will.
Ride the waves.... you'll feel stronger again, soon enough. It's an ebb and flow..... the bad times don't last.
My father always said....."nothing good nor bad lasts forever."
He was right.
ps... you can always play games (with regard to domination) with a nice trustworthy man. Games can be fun.... this is real life. You'll want to be very careful about who you trust with your body and soul.... yes?
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Me too.
Some of the thoughts that released me from my 2nd marriage (about which decision I was paralysed for years because I meant my vows with my whole soul, and the guilt kept me in a toxic situation for a prime chapter of my life...) were:
--can I envision this person taking loving care of me if I were ever helpless? NO
--can I envision him being kind and selfless interacting with children or grandchildren? NO
Enough.
I left the marriage and my only regret was not rescuing myself sooner. I deeply wish I had been assertive enough to get an annullment. I had EVERY right...as you do, Alone.
And in years since I've created a loving community of friends, who would care for me kindly if I ever needed them.
You WILL be okay without him.
And your priest does not know a woman's life, and is relying on dogma to advise you what is right for you.
Please don't let him.
love to you,
Hops
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Dear Safe,
I was raised to respect the priest's final word.
However, my angst was turned to peace, by the actual truth of God's word.
And all my research to date has both affirmed and validated my heart rending decision to end my abusive marriage.
In the 'What Helps' I have posted some info on the 4 reasons one can divorce, as the covenant is broken.
Applicable in the 1st century and still today in the 21st century.
With no feelings of guilt for doing so, none whatsoever.
Hope my sharing is of some help and comfort to you.
Sincerely yours,
Love, Leah
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Leah-
Thank you for directing us to the other area- I must admit I rarely go there. It seems that with one of those 4 reasons for divorce, the others are usually there as well, perhaps hidden. I have always marveled at how some take one sentence and act as if it were the entire wisdom on the subject, especially in issues such as divorce. God's law is there to protect the righteous and as a guide for a good life, not to make them prey to evil. Religions sometimes force girls to marry against their wills, or to submit children to the perversions of the hierarchy, saying that God wills it and using one verse or another.
Even the priesthood has changed regarding marriage.At one time in church history priests could and did marry. God's law is perfect, but man can use it wrongly.
Thank you for the information Leah.
Love,
Changing
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Even the priesthood has changed regarding marriage.At one time in church history priests could and did marry. God's law is perfect, but man can use it wrongly.
Thanks Changing,
Yes, the priests did marry. And also, there were women priests!
To date, have thoroughly enjoyed my research and study -- ongoing!
Just to say, all the very best as you sit your Finals
Feel sure that you will do very well indeed.
Love, Leah