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Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Iphi on November 27, 2007, 03:23:45 PM

Title: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Iphi on November 27, 2007, 03:23:45 PM

This came up on another topic and posters were saying they variously feel baffled, patronized, frustrated and/or annoyed when someone expresses this sentiment to them. Several people said they don't know how in the slightest to be kind to themselves.

What's up with that?

We were all taught we didn't deserve good treatment, brainwashed to present ourselves to new people and situations saying, in so many ways, "mistreat me - it is my lot in life." I know I have. But more than that, the self-sabotage and self-talk and self-treatment....

I have struggled with this a lot in the past and am working on treating myself in a kinder way now. This is where I came to on this topic about how I was treating myself; I am not following the golden rule. I treat others better than I treat myself. If I treated others like I treated myself - then I would treat others very badly.

So I needed to start treating myself as well as I treated others. Can you treat yourself as kindly as you would treat another? Would you say to another the things you say to yourself? Would you say "No" to others the way you say "no" to yourself?

How to start being kind to yourself? Treat yourself like you would treat someone you love.

It is a practice. When I go into a shame spiral or am lashing myself, if I do it out loud, my H says "be kind to yourself. Be kind. treat yourself gently." And when he does the same thing, I do the same thing, but not as an order or a reproof for how I or he is behaving, but as a reminder that others value me and they treat me better than I treat myself. And it hurts them to see me treat myself badly, because they care. It hurts me to see my H treat himself badly, because I care about him and see so much good in him.

But another day the same or different behaviors come up and I must remember again, how to be kind or good to myself just like I would another person.

Can I really call myself a responsible person if I behave so reprehensibly toward myself? Being my own friend is not just a cliche for me - because it represents a whole universe of learning that is lying out there/in here all waiting for me to get started.

One time I posted on a yoga forum that yoga was teaching me how to treat myself kindly and be my own friend. Some other poster reacted that my treacly sentimentality made their gorge rise. Well, what the hell did he know? He really knew NOTHING about the hell of being your own best enemy and the what is self-loathing when you live it every day in every way. My point: people think it is a nothing saying, but it is a HUGE thing that changes everything and I figured - I honestly don't know how to be a friend, to be kind, to be good to myself. I need to learn.

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: changing on November 27, 2007, 06:30:28 PM

Hi Iphi-

"Cast ye not pearls before swine"- Thank God we don't have to convince every jackal about every truth- that is not our job on this earth plane. You answer to a higher authority (another treacly truism to some) who expects your praise and the proper treatment of his temple and servant. And your example of a happy healthy joyful being is one of the best gifts that you can ever give your sweet little one! That's what is important! Hope all is well Iphi!

Love From Your Friend Changing

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Gabben on November 27, 2007, 09:08:12 PM

Getting to a place where I can begin to treat myself with great care and tenderness, acknowledging my pain and trauma is just around the corner for me.

But I would not be almost there because anyone told me "please be good to yourself." Whenever someone says this to me I feel so ashamed. The message they are saying is something along the lines of "I can see how much you beat yourself up" or "how much you hurt yourself" as if it is my choice to beat myself up and my choice to be so hard on myself. Of course it is my choice, sometimes I CAN just drop the stick. It takes practice though and the more I say I'm just not going to beat me up for that the easier it is to stop.

But getting there is hard...

The most effective tool that has ever reached me is the kindness and compassion of others, unconditional acceptance even when I am beating myself up. I'm like a child - I'll give up what I need to give up when I am ready to give it up and if you force me then it is just going to take that much longer. I am still emotionally 2 sometimes and I still love to say "no."

If beating myself up is what I need to do then I guess I'm just not ready to let go. It is sort of like a 2 year-old tantrum, at some point I realize that throwing the tantrum is just not fun and there are other things that I want to do and throwing the tantrum is not getting me what I want so I might as well just give it up. This is when I decide to drop the stick or stop being so hard on myself.

Lise

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Ami on November 28, 2007, 04:19:33 PM

Dear Iphi,
I think that one of THE worst pains in life is "throwing yourself away". The first step out is to face it and talk about it. You are doing that. Love Ami
(((((((((((Iphi))))))))))))))

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: finding peace on November 28, 2007, 10:33:24 PM

Hi Iphi :::::waving:::::

You said:

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If I treated others like I treated myself - then I would treat others very badly.

Quote

You have a beautiful gift of being able to drill to the core of the matter and find gold! I never thought of this - never saw it this way, but it is so true!

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

That was a huge eye-opener and reframe - it is soooo true!

You also said:

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Can I really call myself a responsible person if I behave so reprehensibly toward myself?

Quote

Yes, you can, because like a child first learning to walk, you are learning to unlearn what we were programmed with from the cradle. Not easy.

You also said:

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Some other poster reacted that my treacly sentimentality made their gorge rise.

Quote

This angered me. You don't deserve that. It speaks to who they are not you, eh? Your sensitivity enriches the world - don't ever let anyone try to dim your light (and this is what negative comments like this can do if we let them). Your sensitivity has enabled you to help so many (including me). on edit: I am sorry if this came out too strong. It is a hot button of mine - and what that poster said triggered it! So many people try to diminish or steal the light of others, out of envy, greed, hatred. It irks me (putting it mildly). I believe that if people would work together to enhace each other's light we will all blaze brigther.

Peace

BTW - Iphi, you have a beautiful gift with words - I love reading what you write. It just flows from the page.

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Hopalong on November 29, 2007, 02:05:16 PM

Iphi, that was wonderful.
Thank you for noticing the "be good to yourself" part of the Golden Rule.
Perhaps seeing it as a divine directive will make it more accessible.

I wonder if feeling shamed or annoyed when a person says "be kind to yourself" could be allayed by asking oneself:

--are the person's intentions real and genuine, do I believe their caring is real as demonstrated over time, or is it dismissive like "Have a nice day!"?

--is it a gift to notice my own response, since people say it so often--maybe it gives me a measure of how I'm doing with self-love?

My two pence,

Hops

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Gabben on November 29, 2007, 02:24:05 PM

Quote from: Hopalong on November 29, 2007, 02:05:16 PM

I wonder if feeling shamed or annoyed when a person says "be kind to yourself" could be allayed by asking oneself:

--are the person's intentions real and genuine, do I believe their caring is real as demonstrated over time, or is it dismissive like "Have a nice day!"?

That is a very good point Hops. It does feel dismissive when someone says" be kind or care for yourself." For if someone really cared then they would take the time to really listen, they would ask for more information and they would seek a way to reach you with some kind encouraging words, in others words they would "care"...which is more than just words but it is a real action it is a real movement towards the other person. Hmmm how much do I care? That is a good question for me to ask myself. I think people say that because they just don't know what else to say.

Fortunately I have not heard anyone say those words to me for sometime because I have learned to only open up with "safe others," people who are not going to judge me or dismiss me when I am in pain or feeling distress. I have a choice about who I let in my head. If I am going to open my self up with others who I know are not safe then I keep my expectation very low and I focus on the other person..you know, "seek to understand rather than be understood."

Thanks,
Lise

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Gabben on November 29, 2007, 02:26:20 PM

Quote from: Ami on November 28, 2007, 04:19:33 PM

Dear Iphi,
I think that one of THE worst pains in life is "throwing yourself away". The first step out is to face it and talk about it. You are doing that. Love Ami
(((((((((((Iphi))))))))))))))

Dear Iphi,

Since this is your post I wanted to check in with you...and let you know that I care :)

Lise

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Hopalong on November 29, 2007, 03:56:37 PM

Hi Lise,

Thanks to my terrible memory, I am concerned that I will forget sometime.
Hope you'll forgive me if I ever say it to you.

Hops

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: changing on November 30, 2007, 01:16:39 AM

Hello Iphi-

You absolutely know how to be a good friend- you have been there for me when I needed a friend, and encouraged me , and it was wonderful and inspiring. Whatever may have hurt you in the past you can relinquish and not let guide your self-talk, but instead give yourself the same ikind, ntelligent and soulful treatment that you so kindly gave to me. With a little practice, it will come quite naturally!

Love to You and Your Family,

Changing

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Leah on November 30, 2007, 11:37:25 AM

Quote from: Shunned on November 30, 2007, 10:40:44 AM

ya know, it's funny...

I think we ALL know how to treat other people because of how we've been treated. What Iphi is suggesting is extremely important though and doesn't disregard the reality that we have been and sometimes, continue to be really hard on ourselves.

Even if we have to start with the simplest things... a chocolate bar for finishing a big (or despised) task, a regular 15 min tea break, a weekly "just for me" shopping trip (even if it's just window shopping), a new hair cut..... ALL these kinds of things count on the plus side of being nice to ourselves - and helps us learn to let go the unearned guilt over them. It helps us learn to FEEL that we deserve to be treated, like we treat other people.

Nothing more important than that. I think it's actually one of the goals of this work.

Dear Amber,

This morning, I must have decided to treat myself, when, spur of the moment, picked up the phone, and amazed, because Saturday mornings is their busiest opening time, I got booked in for a 'new hair cut' tomorrow morning :)

Have looked through some magazines and selected a style which I feel I may enjoy.

What you say is so true, we really do need to give ourselves a treat, which admittedly, is something I overlook for myself.

Love, Leah

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Hopalong on November 30, 2007, 04:06:48 PM

How nice, Leah!

What's the style?

Is it a big change?

hugs
Hops

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Iphi on November 30, 2007, 05:03:03 PM

Hi all and thank you for sharing your thoughts and insights with me. Life is intense right now (working, teething baby, stuff happening - good but buuuusy) and I wish I could post more frequently but it seems not to be in the cards for a while.

Finding Peace - thanks for brandishing your staff at that fool poster I described! I didn't think it was too forceful at all. Thanks! He was just a person who didn't get what I was saying at all and was not very diplomatic. He spent most of his time on that board rationalizing how it could be right in some circumstances to have an affair and yet still be a good person doing the right thing somehow. Pfffft! So you see, he was someone with issues on the other side of the see saw regarding the Golden Rule - treating himself indulgently at the expense of others. Hmm, not important but illustrative of what I'm trying to say about the balance of treating ourselves and others both well.
And thank you so much for your kind words on my writing! They mean SO much to me! You are lovely.

Lise (as all of us too!) might feel she must insist upon punishing herself, but I bet if she saw someone else punishing themselves in the same way - she would intervene compassionately at once and it would distress her. We recognize the wrongness of it. Also if you saw someone treating another individual the way you and I treat ourselves - if it was right out there where you could see it as an interaction between 2 beings - it would be obviously wrong, I think.

We treat ourselves in harsh ways because we were taught to do so. We were taught wrong.

I think the main way I treat myself ill is the same way I was taught to. My dad always dismissed what I said as if it was mere twittering of birds and treated everything about me as either worthless, ornamental or just foolish. By no means is this in any way comparable to much of the abusiveness I have read about here, but well - that's the size and shape of my damage and it is not fully healed. The best I can say so far is that there is a lessening of internal oppression and I have been feeling good about myself and feeling good about feeling good about myself too.

Also I realized just recently that a lot of the things my dad indicated to me were worthless about me - such as writing (ahhh I can hear his voice echoing the word patronizingly, sarcastically in my ear) - are things he can't even do. Of course sometimes he would just excuse himself from any involvement in my 'issues' by saying "I don't know anything about that." He was indifferent to me. He has been so for many years, except that he is not indifferent to me when I fail to gratify him - then he is angry. :roll: Whatever, we all know how that goes.

Leah, I just read your 'what and why' topic and feel so much for you and all you have gone though. You have endured great cruelty and callousness and deserve much loving care, and in the short term - a nice new hair cut!

changing you are a sweetpea I think. I was thinking, with some outrage, about how much you have given to others and how little received. Imo, it would be lovely to see you receive bounteously. To some extent I can see a comparable dynamic at work in me to give to unworthy recipients, but I think you are the greater spirit there. I have gone rounds with my dad many times - I'm sharp tongued and have many fruitless arguments in my past. The last dysfunctional incident with my dad was when I came to visit and stayed to clean and browbeat him about hiring household assistance (and asked him pointedly why he was holding on to 5 year old clothing and whatnot catalogs) and he threw me out with great umbrage and gave me a full on cold shoulder for the next... year or so. Anyway, I feel compelled to confess I have not exactly been a bystander on Enmeshment Avenue. :lol:

Coming back to the point since I am editing this whole post right after posting it (lol!), I think that at least between my H and me - when we say "Be kind to yourself" we are not talking in general - we are saying it specifically to address something we see the other person doing right now. I see him being harsh on himself and I say 'be kind to yourself. You are judging yourself unfairly harshly' and on from there to address the specifics. And he does the same for me. So I guess I don't see the remark as being a general one or a cop out. To me it is a specific response to draw attention to specific behavior happening right now that we can see happening. I just know when my H berates himself out loud that he probably has said the same thing to himself silently millions of times, but no one was there to intervene in that negative script. If he says it out loud then I am able to be that voice that breaks into the negative script and draw more awareness and present attention to how he is treating himself and also offer alternative interpretations. kwim.

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Leah on November 30, 2007, 05:12:53 PM

Thank you, Hops and Iphi

The style is radically different to my present 'not bothered with it' style! Which is longish straightish most times.

As I have soft natural curls which bounce up when my hair is shorter, but not short, I am going for a shoulder length bob style, with long layers to give it some bounce!! It will end up being slightly fluffy!!! As I have fine hair.

So you may call me 'fluffy' :lol:

On the other hand, if I don't like it, you may call be 'moaning minnie' :lol:

Love, Leah

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: finding peace on November 30, 2007, 05:14:16 PM

Hi Iphi - gonna brandish that staff once more:

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By no means is this in any way comparable to much of the abusiveness I have read about here

Quote

Oh yes it is - every bit comparable IMO. It is the emotional damage behind the abusiveness that does the most harm - IMO.

I miss the baby stage - teething and all! (Never would have said it then :lol: ).

Give that baby a big hug for me. (little boy?) He is lucky to have such a special mama!

Peace

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Iphi on November 30, 2007, 05:29:53 PM

That sounds really lovely Leah!

Title: Altogether quite an amazing day
Post by: Leah on December 01, 2007, 01:03:11 PM

My experience at the hairdressers this time was altogether so very different, having successfully steered the conversation away from me, and onto wider subjects.

My hair, I am really happy with, not as I had planned, but instead, retaining most of the length with some wonderful long 'choppy' layers, that has given it a healthy looking 'body and bounce'

Afterward, went to a Craft Fair, and among the many crafts on display was 'jewellery making' with a demonstration by a lovely lady. Wide variety of different types of beads, large and small in every colour imaginable. Necklaces, earrings, bracelets, and rings too!

Had a go at making a pretty candle ..... the shape is unique! Bit wobbly! :) But, lots of pretty colours, and of my very own creation!

Amazing afternoon spent among some really nice friendly folk with plenty of :lol: Oh, and a yummy lunch too!

Returned home invigorated and uplifted.

Just thought I would share the joy I felt while; smiling, joining in, chatting, laughing, and making new friends. It was truly lovely.

Love, Leah

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: changing on December 01, 2007, 02:58:00 PM

Leah-

You are beloved here and it is wonderful to see our friend kicking about , enjoying her life and letting her light shine- lovely!!!

Love,

Changing

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Hopalong on December 01, 2007, 11:11:34 PM

That's really nice to read about Leah. Thank you!

The pleasure of making something, anything, especially with others, really lifts my spirits every time.

So glad you had a wonderful day.

:D

Hops

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Leah on December 02, 2007, 02:03:28 PM

Grateful thanks to you

((((( Changing )))))

and

((((( Hops )))))

Love & Hugs,

Leah

Title: Living Life ...
Post by: Leah on December 04, 2007, 11:46:16 AM

Smile

Maybe God wants me to meet a few wrong people before meeting the right one so that when we finally meet the right person, we will know how to be grateful for the gift.

When the door of happiness closes, another opens, but often times we look so long at the closed door that we don't see the one which has been opened for us.

The best kind of friend is the kind you can sit on a porch swing with, never say a word, then walk away feeling like it was the best conversation you've ever had.

It's true that we don't know what we've got until we lose it, but it's also true that we don't know what we've been missing until it arrives.

Giving someone all your love is never an assurance that they'll love you back! Don't expect love in return; just wait for it to grow in their heart but if it doesn't, be content it grew in yours.

It takes only a minute to get a crush on someone, an hour to like someone, and a day to love someone, but it takes a lifetime to forget someone.

Don't go for looks; they can deceive Don't go for wealth; even that fades away Go for someone who makes you smile because it takes only a smile to make a dark day seem bright find the one that makes your heart smile.

There are moments in life when you miss someone so much that you just want to pick them from your dreams and hug them for real.

Dream what you want to dream; go where you want to go; be what you want to be, because you have only one life and one chance to do all the things you want to do.

May you have enough happiness to make you sweet, enough trials to make you strong, enough sorrow to keep you human, enough hope to make you happy.

Always put yourself in the other's shoes If you feel that it hurts you, it will probably hurt the other person too.

The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything; they just make the most of everything that comes along the way.

Happiness lies for those who cry, those who hurt, those who have searched, and those who have tried, for only they can appreciate the importance of people who have touched their lives.

The brightest future will always be based on a forgotten past, you can't get on well in life until you let go of your past failures and heartaches.

When you were born, you were crying and everyone around you was smiling. Live your life so that when you die, you're the one who is smiling and everyone around you is crying.

:)

Title: Re: being good/kind to yourself?
Post by: Leah on December 05, 2007, 11:41:25 AM

Ode to a Computer...

If a packet hits a pocket on a socket on a port,
And the bus is interrupted as a very last resort,
And the address of the memory makes your floppy disk abort,
Then the socket packet pocket has an error to report.

If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash,
And the double clicking icon puts your window in the trash,
And your data is corrupted 'cause the index doesn't hash,
Then your situation's hopeless and your system's gonna crash.

If the label on the cable on the table at your house,
Says the network is connected to the button on your mouse,
But your packets want to tunnel on another protocol,
That's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall,

And your screen is all distorted by the side effects of gauss,
So your icons in the window are as wavy as a souse,
Then you may as well reboot it, and let it go out with a bang,
'Cause as sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang.

When the copy of your floppy's getting sloppy on the disk,
And the micro-code instructions cause unnecessary risk,
Then you have to flash your memory and you'll want to ram your ROM,
So quickly turn off your compu...

by Arthur! :)