Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on December 03, 2007, 08:48:24 AM
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When I talk to my Aunt,I see how "easy" life could be.
When I tell my Aunt that I feel guilty for having "feelings, she is incredulous.
If she feels s/thing, she accepts that it IS human,as I used to a long time ago.
Sometimes, I feel like I have a glimpse of the self I used to be under all these layers of craziness ..I used to live simply like my Aunt.
I did not need to control other people's emotions. I was responsible for mine,only.
I did not need to be the 'best". I was happy with the few good qualities I had and was grateful for them.
I could suspend my ego . I had joy in giving.
The best part was that I could let any crazy thought or emotion go by without thinking anything of it.I thought that it was simply a "crazy" thought that was "flying" by my head.
I saw my M as having a set of personality characteristics that had NOTHING to do with me. She was insecure.I was secure.She was too serious.I was funny.
She had to be the "best". I could be mediocre.
All the way down the line,I was different.
Now, I turn around and I am the same in too many ways for comfort.I am afraid all the time. I am afraid of "whatever". I don't even know. A spirit of fear pervades me.My M was afraid all the time. I see that she really could not help her thinking. She was buried too deeply,as I am now. The only difference with me is that I am digging out .
I forgive her and realize that I am 'alone".
She did love me the best that she could. I was simply an "appendage" to her and she treated me the way she treated herself. My F stayed with her b/c he is not "right" either. He is not connected to his core so he allowed crazy situations to happen and just "stood there".
I got "buried" the same way that my M did---little by little .
The only way out is truth--- fearless. I have to look at the truth in a cold,clinical way.
I am beginning to see the N layer in myself.My Aunt simply accepts it as "human". It does not bring great angst to her. She could not understand(emotionally) what would bring s/one to spend years in a shrinks office.
She does not have layers upon layers to dig out of .What they really are--- are lies-----lies upon lies
We started going down when we accepted our first lie, whatever it was. Mine was that my M was O.K..
I don't like to see the ugliness within myself .but it is there. I can see it a little better now, without flinching so much.I can see it go by sometimes, without judging . My Aunt just sees it go by effortlessly.
I have to look within the dark ugliness of myself and just "see".At 14,I could do this.I could see it all go by . My Aunt says that she tries to live with integrity. She sees the feelings go by and then decides the action. S/times, she does the wrong action, the selfish action. That is part of the humanness ,too.
Integrity is a beacon,but s/times you miss it. Then , you just put it in the human "circular file" and go on.
Can you imagine how simple life would be if you learned this wisdom at the "right" time.?
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The N layer is "animal instincts",I think.
Storm used to talk about this. She said that the abuser has to "break" you by taking away this layer. So many of my threads are trying to get a handle on this.
I think of certain people who are like "boxers', with exquisite instincts.They "flow" like a 'fighter" who punches and ducks.
So much of navigating life is being able to feel the subtleties. That is what you lose when you are abused,I think. You have so many unmet needs. . You keep repeating the same "story" instead of facing what is right in front of you.
I am seeing that now---how I was not "present" in life.In fact,from 14 on, I was numb in every experience I ever had.Going through ALL these life experiences--numb.
If I saw s/one with "bad" qualities,I had to block my "sight" so I didn't have to process it. I remember how "safe' I used to feel when I could "see" and "feel".
Then, ,I had to become a "shock absorber" for everyone else.I thought that the world would spin out of control if anyone had a "bad" feeling. The world WAS on the verge of spinning out of control if my M's ''bad" feelings were not absorbed. Now, so many years later,I am still doing the same thing:so many useless patterns that have NO bearing on today.
I remember visiting a friends house while I was in college. Her F was horrible. I remember "feeling" his essence and being able to see him.I guess that my life got so out of control when I laid this layer down.
I felt guilty for other people's "bad qualities.I could not see that the qualities were in THEM--not me.
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Dear Amber,
Maybe "ugly"is the wrong word. I guess that it is like when an animal protects itself with it's instincts, that would not be ugly--right?
I guess that I was "told" that it was ugly when it was just 'natural".Good point Ami
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Dear Amber,
Maybe "ugly"is the wrong word. I guess that it is like when an animal protects itself with it's instincts, that would not be ugly--right?
I guess that I was "told" that it was ugly when it was just 'natural".Good point Ami
Ami,
Can you break it down for me?
What instincts are you talking about:
self esteem
ego/pride
emotional security
social security
financial security
ambitions
sex
This is what I learned over the years:
These listed above are our God given instincts. God wants to feed us, clothes, protect us, and most especially love us.
Am I on the right track or am I missing something?
Lise
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I think that part of it is feeling that the "self protective "instinct is "bad? Do you understand what I mean?It FEELS "bad" or "wrong"
It FEELS like I am doing s/thing "wrong' by protecting myself emotionally. Ami
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I was taught that ALL selfishness was "bad'. The N layer is simply that layer of self protective instincts--emotionally,physically, psychologically where you chose yourself FIRST. THAT is the N layer---choosing yourself first. Do you guys understand HOW hard it is to chose yourself first and "sit" with it and be comfortable with it.
THAT is what the N layer is. Ami
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I Do you guys understand HOW hard it is to chose yourself first and "sit" with it and be comfortable with it.
THAT is what the N layer is. Ami
Yes, I do know ... some of that has come up for me this past year. As a matter of fact this weekend I took a break from volunteer work to read, knit, and bake cookies, however, I ended up have and anxiety attack instead -- guilt.
Lise
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You get it EXACTLY---Lise. That is the point of my whole thread. Thank you,Lise Ami
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I think that I got to the bottom of the layers(maybe?). The N layer, as I call it, is the layer where a child pulls a toy from another child. He says,"It's mine."it could be survival instinct or just WANTING something b/c you want it without regard for s/one else. THIS is what N's do. They want s/thing and they take it.It could be anything.It could be s/one else's brains,beauty,etc. If they can't take the "actual" thing, they will try to destroy it in you so THEY don't have to be threatened by it.(This is what happens with the N mother(IMO))
They want what they want WHEN they want it.
My Aunt gave me the "clue' to the N layer. She said, Everyone is selfish and has bad motives, Ami dear.It is just human."
There she is elegant, beautiful ,gracious,loving,-----admitting the N layer- She even told me a story where she was selfish ,but forgave herself. She put herself BEFORE her D and traumatized the D ,but she could talk about it and share it. She could own it and then not let it stick to her like shameful slime.
To make it short--My Aunt suspected that her M(my GM) might be dead . My Aunt let her D (20's) go up and "discover" my GM b/c she(my Aunt) did not "want" to. My Aunt told me that it really traumatized her D and that my Aunt was very selfish for doing this. However, she put it in the "circular file" of "human".
Maybe,it does not explain what I am trying to say. However,my Aunt made a selfish choice and then lived with it---without destroying herself(Sigh).
The N layer is what N's OPERATE on most of the time. That is why they hurt us so much. So, the antidote to the N layer is to develop the OTHER parts of the personality that will balance it.
There is the Adult part, which waits it's turn. There are values which take you to a "higher " level.
However( and this is the key), we cannot DENY that we have the N level. THAT is why I was sick. I could NOT be selfish.I could not WANT to steal the "cookie' from s/one else. I had to be above the N level. Hence,I was sick.
I was denying that I even HAD an N level. Every time it reared it's head I had to beat it down. How?with depression, sickness, crazy ideas etc.
I could not FACE the N level. I must have done this as a survival skill. I could not have wants and needs as a child. I HAD to give them up and try to just swim in my M's 'waters"
Then,,I thought that I was "bad' for having wants(pure wants)
So, I was conditioned to be the same way AFTER I left my M's house.
I was as"stuck' as when I lived there.
Thank you for letting me have a place to talk. .Healing is a matter of survival for me. I have to do it . It is my life's passion and I can't stop until I am well. Love Ami.
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Dear Ami,
All this 'bad' you are in turmoil over is ......... GUILT
Pure and simple.
GUILT is the root -- and inner anger, frustration and maybe even depression, are the symptoms or the branches.
Dig out the root GUILT and the branches are no longer
Selflessness is wonderful, it truly is, but true selflessness that flows freely from ones heart has no guilt tag with it.
Trying to be selfless while all the time feeling 'bad' or guilty for feeling selfish is what allows GUILT to take firm root in ones heart and is in effect, self destructive.
Thinking of you ((( Ami )))
Love, Leah
Edit: ....bornfree's postings on Lupita's thread yesterday is well worth a read and also Certain Hopes post regarding feelings and ones heart.
I have just googled for you and found this ........
Guilt is a part of the emotional and psychological makeup of every human being. We all have it. However, just as with any other of our emotions -- such as anger, fear, and even love -- guilt has to be in balance. Guilt should be looked at as a safeguard. Guilt is that emotion that tells our conscience mind that we have done something that is wrong.
We could think of guilt as an alarm system that helps us to know when we are out of line. When we know the right thing to do and we do not do it, we will feel guilty.
However, if we "feel" guilty all of the time, then there is an imbalance in our mental attitude about our actions and ourselves. We are allowing the emotion of guilt to control us and that is what is wrong. Therefore, we need to examine ourselves. Do we have reason to feel guilty? Have we offended someone, broken the law, or acted in an anti-social way?
If the answer to these questions is no, then feeling guilty is a false alarm. When the emotion of guilt is in control and making us feel guilty without cause, then the result is irrational thinking. We must find a way to bring our emotions into a balance by an honest evaluation of the situation.
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Thank you,Leah
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Dear Amber,
I think that the use of the term N is what is confusing. I could call it the instinctual level. Would it make different sense to you then? Ami
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What I mean-----the N layer IS the developmental level of 3-4 years old- very simply. I was TAUGHT that it was "bad" but it is not.It is just a developmental stage --not good OR bad. IF you stay there--like N's --it iS bad. Do you understand my point better---now, Amber?
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Hands Up here ...... because I don't understand your point at all (( Ami ))
You never mentioned anything about this 'N layer' is when you were 3-4 years old in your post.
Which book are you reading this from?
Truly concerned.
Love, Leah
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Leah---- I am just naming s/thing myself. I am calling our "normal" developmental stage --the N level. I just "made" up the name.
I guess it is confusing. It is the stage we ALL go through at age 3-4. Abused people,often, have to shut down this layer inside them. Do you understand what I mean?
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Dear Ami,
No, I honestly don't, because that does not correlate with your posts about feeling 'bad'
Thanks for explaining that this is something that you have made up
as I was wondering and getting concerned for you, about it all.
Love, Leah
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I get you Ami though I am not sure if I would put everything in the same group.
Just the other week, I read this book which was a fun book and not about Ns, except it turned out to kind of be about Ns and shed a lot of light on the animal side of human behavior. It was called a Natural History of the Rich. It talked about the way primates (and some other animals but mainly primates like baboons, chimps, apes, monkeys) behave and how primates achieve social dominance in their groups. I was so tickled to see N behavior described. For example, a dominant monkey will refuse to eat food that is offered as a gift from a lesser status animal because it would lose its dominance - it HAS to control the resources and give the gifts it WANTS to give. How about that? Oh and also, if you are in the family or the loyalty of a dominant animal, you have to spend a lot of time grooming (primates hang out and groom a lot) the dominant one. Politeness says then the groomed animal should groom you back - turn about is fair play. Well I think it was chimps - the lower status chimp will groom the dominant one for on average about 10 hours. In return, the dominant one will half-heartedly return the favor for - One hour. No doubt complaining all the way.
Anyway, it was a very amusing book and that is what I am thinking of when I think about the origin of N behavior - it is the will to be dominant.
But I'm feeling - that the will to dominate is not the same as the will to survive or to thrive. If I want to achieve success and thriving, then I must choose and actively pursue my goals, but that doesn't mean that those goals are about dominating or holding power over people. If I did have to hold power, it doesn't mean I would tyrannize people with it.
Btw, I visit my baby every day at daycare and it is funny you should say that about grabbing the toy. There are 2 other babies just about his age and the three of them are a sort of cohort. They interact and learn from each other and compete with each other. And every day I try to figure out how I am going to teach this baby to share. This is what happens - all the interesting toys are out on the floor. The clever and amusing girl baby picks up Toy X. Immediately, Toy X is the most desirable toy to have. My baby wants it. Toy Y which he was playing with, drops from his nerveless fingers forgotten and all can see is Toy X. He wants it. I try to distract him with other toys. He ignores them (sometimes distracting him succeeds). He grabs Toy X. Girl baby hauls on Toy X, sometimes she succeeds. Sometimes not. If my boy succeeds I try to get it out of his hands and continue to attempt to distract him. Sometimes this works. If it doesn't work - then I try to find a toy to intrigue the girl baby so that she isn't crestfallen - usually this works. Whew! BUT sometimes whatever the girl has becomes the cool new Toy X that everyone wants, because someone else is enjoying it.
Of course other times Toy X gets grabbed off of my baby boy, in which case I try to find another toy for him. There are 3 of them so they keep this up all the time.
Now though if one of the babies turns N, I would imagine it would not be about the toys in themselves being alluring. In that case the toys would be tools of power over the others and so the N would hoard them all and allow the favored babies to play with maybe one or two that the N says are allowed. Probably the N would dictate how the favored baby is allowed to interact with the toy. Unfavored babies get nothing but the unfavored one is not allowed to go free and fulfill it's own personal needs elsewhere - oh no. They must stay and starve.
Anyway, we are supposed to be more than just hairless chimps imo.
Hope this post is not too discursive!
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I would agree that balance is needed - but again, not because those instincts in ourselves are bad or that you need to counter them. The instincts need to remain, be accepted, and be REFINED in our choices, thoughts & feelings and actions. The balance is that we use our minds and hearts, to give ourselves what we need - emotional needs - to fill up the empty place - so we're not clinging to survival by our fingernails, by our animal instincts.
So we can actually LIVE LIFE and enjoy it - without needing to do this level of soul-searching, self-analysis, second-guessing, self-judgement or navel gazing all the time.
This process has an end to it: freedom, self-determination, identity, self.
Dear (( Amber )),
You literally took the words out of my mouth or off my keyboard!!
Words of Life
Words of Life Living Wisdom - pure and simple
Dear ((( Ami ))) so hope you are open to them.
Much love to you both,
Leah
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Additionally to my last post - I want to mention that there are other layers to survival too that I didn't touch on in the previous post and that I wouldn't group in with the will to dominate either.
Like for example, when I met my new co-worker on my last job - I felt he was trouble and I even felt I might have to leave my job because of him. It was instinct, maybe intuition. There was nothing on the surface interaction that would account for my extreme reaction right off the bat. He had done nothing yet. And I did not react to anything that he did not do. I just proceeded to do my job and behave as usual. And within 6 months I was looking for a new job, once his actions and behavior became clear. I skirted the trouble and left it behind. But in retrospect it really blew my mind that I had an clear instinct that he would be trouble to the degree I might have to leave - I even thought that thought and then was baffled that it would pop into my head that first day. It was definitely before there was any evidence at all that he was more than just a garden variety self-absorbed jerk - there are many of those.
But definitely I feel that my survival instinct was deeply compromised and often I fully discounted and threw away what the instinct had to say. The above incident happened recently and I have already been on the road to recovery. The situation was much different between 20 and 10 years ago - the self-sabotage, the inability to look out for myself, the refusal to allow myself to know what I know. I have many stories about that too and could share some if it would be useful.
I am not sure how it fits into the big picture but I feel there are important differences between that survival voice, and intuition, and the will to thrive, and the desire to have stuff, and the desire to dominate. But on the other hand it is very intriguing to think how it all interrelates.
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This is my intuitive "feeling. Once you are in the "sun"(free from bondage and self deception) --you are just "there'. Then, you have arrived at your destination--whole. Then,it is not an issue about self searching.It is just over. I could be wrong,but that is how I see it.
When you are "full",--you are not hungry any more. It is not about "trying NOT to be hungry. You just aren't.
That is how I see it.I could be wrong Ami
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Navel Gazing, lol.....
Been a while since I hear that one, Amber.... makes me smile every time: )
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Iphi - yes, I agree; big difference between domination and survival, and again between surviving and thriving. Loved your story about the chimps!
I don't know about other people: but I tend to get hungry every day! Maybe more than once a day! Yes, I feel there is a definite end to this process, but I also recognize that I will be working on it every day, for the rest of my life: looking for ways to meet my needs, self-validating, letting go... but it will go into the background of my consciousness, like brushing my teeth.
Ami, being "hungry" for emotional food is another of those animal instincts. It doesn't get "full" and stay full. And sometimes you get tired of broccoli and want chocolate... you can't eat just one or the other all the time. I guess it's lunch time - LOL!!!!
Actually, just like babies, we out grow baby food; as babies we need can only digest milk, then we move on the pureed bland solids. We would never give a baby spicy rich food, right? Babies need bland food; the real food which babies need to live is RICH indulgent love: instense praise, mirroring, holding, admiration, adoration, that need to be seen and recognized as special.
If we get our fill of RICH LOVE which children need (if we are not being cared for by an N) then we start to outgrow the need for it.
As adults, if we are healthy, we are going to seek to love others and will there good above our own. We will seek to grow in virtue, such as patience and humility. We no longer use food, sex, or drugs as a distraction or filler. The pursuit now becomes, what Ami is saying, for wholeness...to radically be filled with the love of God, which is ten thousand times (understatement) more fullfilling than anything of this world, especially food.
Lise
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Ami,
I just found this reading in M. Scott Peck's People of the Lie:
The use of the concept of emotional suffering to define disease
is also faulty in several other respects. As I noted in The Road
Less Traveled," it is often the most spiritually healthy and advanced
among us who are called on to suffer ways more agonizing
than anything experienced by the more ordinary. Great
leaders, when wise and well, are literally to endure degrees of anguish
unknown the common man. Conversely, it is the unwillingness
to suffer emotional pain that usually lies at the very root
of emotional illness. Those who fully experience depression,
doubt, confusion, and despair may be infinitely more healthy than
those who are generally-certain, complacent, and self-satisfied.
The denial of suffering is, in fact, a better definition of illness
than its acceptance.
The evil deny the suffering of their guilt-the painful awareness
of their sin, inadequacy, and imperfection's by casting their
pain onto others through projection and scapegoating.
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Those who fully experience depression,
doubt, confusion, and despair may be infinitely more healthy than
those who are generally-certain, complacent, and self-satisfied.
Dear Lise,
I have read my copy of Scott Peck's 'People of the Lie' and also the expose and truth of Scott Peck too!!! Which totally stunned me! Because he apparently, lived a life that was a lie!!!
Regarding .....
.... Those who fully experience depression, doubt, confusion, and despair
may be infinitely more healthy Well, I have experienced all 4 .... and today, by the grace of God alone, I
am happily healthy and have a balanced outlook on life
..... than those who are generally - certain, complacent, and self-satisfied .... I do know of people who have always been
that way, who had healthy lives as children, and live healthy lives today .... they are happy balanced individuals .... and they consider
themselves most fortuntate and do some wonderful selfless acts for mankind
I am mindful that life is not black 'n' white ..... but filled with a balance of color! :)
Love, Leah
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wholeness...to radically be filled with the love of God, which is ten thousand times (understatement) more fullfilling than anything of this world, especially food.
Dear Lise,
YES! And to walk each day filled with the love of God and let it flow out and touch lives, thereby being a walking testimony of what the love of God can do in peoples lives while being a New Creation in Christ.
Otherwise, they may ask ... ?
God Bless You.
Many thanks,
Love, Leah
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Leah,
HOW did Scott Peck live a life of a lie,if you care to elaborate.? Thanks Ami
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O' com on...someone get real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have not we all lived a life of a lie at one point?
Give me a break.
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Dear Lise,
YES! And to walk each day filled with the love of God and let it flow out and touch lives, thereby being a walking testimony of what the love of God can do in peoples lives while being a New Creation in Christ.
Otherwise, they may ask ... ?
God Bless You.
Many thanks,
Love, Leah
[/quote]
This sounds like something that my N saint therapist would say.
Leah,
Ask what? Let's be direct here. Are they going to ask how could you be so human?
Lise
Lise
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Leah,
HOW did Scott Peck live a life of a lie,if you care to elaborate.? Thanks Ami
Dear Ami,
That Scott Peck lived a lived a lie was discussed here on the board, in a thread some months ago, and also, to substantiate, there were at the time several resources quoted, of which I read, and more besides.
As it happens, this came to my attention while Scott Peck's books sat here in my personal library, hence, I was somewhat stunned.
Like I did way back then -- you would be able to find this information on the web by 'googling' and researching.
Love,
Leah
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Dear Lise,
YES! And to walk each day filled with the love of God and let it flow out and touch lives, thereby being a walking testimony of what the love of God can do in peoples lives while being a New Creation in Christ.
Otherwise, they may ask ... ?
God Bless You.
Many thanks,
Love, Leah
This sounds like something that my N saint therapist would say.
Leah,
Ask what? Let's be direct here. Are they going to ask how could you be so human?
Lise
Lise
[/quote]
Dear Lise,
They would ask ? means questions
They would question ones walk in Christ, as if we are a bad witness for Christ, who would want to accept Christ, as there would be no witness of any difference to anyone else, who was not in Christ.
Like I questioned my parents going to church on a Sunday and then beating me after they got home, and in particular, when my Father punched me off the settee giving me a black eye, after Church, while the lunch was being prepared by mother.
Hence, I did not go to church for a long time, because of my parents bad witness.
Hope that helps explain what my heart truly meant.
Love, Leah
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Dear Lise,
YES! And to walk each day filled with the love of God and let it flow out and touch lives, thereby being a walking testimony of what the love of God can do in peoples lives while being a New Creation in Christ.
Otherwise, they may ask ... ?
God Bless You.
Many thanks,
Love, Leah
This sounds like something that my N saint therapist would say.
Leah,
Ask what? Let's be direct here. Are they going to ask how could you be so human?
Lise
Lise
Dear Lise,
They would ask ? means questions
They would question ones walk in Christ, as if we are a bad witness for Christ, who would want to accept Christ, as there would be no witness of any difference to anyone else, who was not in Christ.
Like I questioned my parents going to church on a Sunday and then beating me after they got home, and in particular, when my Father punched me off the settee giving me a black eye, after Church, while the lunch was being prepared by mother.
Hence, I did not go to church for a long time, because of my parents bad witness.
Hope that helps explain what my heart truly meant.
Love, Leah
[/quote]
Ok, I see now. Please accept my apologies. I'm tempermentally age two today.
Interesting because though your parents were Christian and they were an incredibly poor role model (understatement) for you, as well as they hurt you deeply, you still became a Christian.
The power of Christ will overcome any barrier, you prove that.
I however will admit that I have spent most of my time being a hypocrite more than a real Christian in my life time. It brings me great peace to accept that fact and to swallow my pride that I have made way too many mistakes and poor choices and mostly all because of my N parents.
Here is the real Christian thing for me to do:
Forgive my parents and become the happy, healthy well adjusted most average Christian I can be, quietly putting a little love back in this world with random kindness. That is my goal. Sometimes I know that it is right there for me and sometimes I feel it to be far away.
((((LEAH)))) Sorry if I hurt you.
Lise
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Ok, I see now. Please accept my apologies. I'm tempermentally age two today.
Interesting because though your parents were Christian and they were an incredibly poor role model (understatement) for you, as well as they hurt you deeply, you still became a Christian.
The power of Christ will overcome any barrier, you prove that.
I however will admit that I have spent most of my time being a hypocrite more than a real Christian in my life time. It brings me great peace to accept that fact and to swallow my pride that I have made way too many mistakes and poor choices and mostly all because of my N parents.
Here is the real Christian thing for me to do:
Forgive my parents and become the happy, healthy well adjusted most average Christian I can be, quietly putting a little love back in this world with random kindness. That is my goal. Sometimes I know that it is right there for me and sometimes I feel it to be far away.
((((LEAH)))) Sorry if I hurt you.
Lise
Dear ((( Lise ))))
Rest assured, apology accepted.
Interesting because though your parents were Christian and they were an incredibly poor role model (understatement) for you, as well as they hurt you deeply, you still became a Christian.
The power of Christ will overcome any barrier, you prove that.
It is a blessing to me and have wondered at it too, as to the how and why i was drawn to Christ.
I am very vary of sharing my testimony because I do not ever want to be perceived as being anything special because I most certainly am not --- it's as you say, the power of Christ overcoming everything, as he draws to Him, as and when he chooses.
My hearts concern is that I would never be a stumbling block to anyone.
That said, I am not to be anyone's 'doormat' or 'rubbing rag' either.
We are to dare to be a Daniel and have courage and be bold, for Christ's sake.
Though I do fail at being courageous and bold sometimes, but, thankfully, I have stopped 'beating myself up' afterwards.
We have all made mistakes and poor choices that's what makes us human.
When I reached the stage of actual forgiveness toward my parents --- can honestly say that it gave me much peace.
The forgiveness beforehand was glib, not real, just words.
Think there must be a spiritual act of forgiveness.
Because there was a real difference.
Love, Leah
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I know that I will have forgiven my parents when I no longer need to hurt myself in any way.
When I no longer feel anxiety or depression. Then, I will have truly forgiven them.
Lise
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Leah,
That you have genuinely forgiven those "people" truly awes me.
love,
Hops