Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Hopalong on December 17, 2007, 10:00:46 PM
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A painful pattern with my D just reared up again.
I am helping her financially get moved to go to grad school.
It has involved serious sacrifice. But it was my choice.
That said, she called last night to ask my opinion on a car repair--because she didn't know if it had been done. She also mentioned she'd had a rotten day at work. I offered sympathy and asked what had happened. She said that was irrelevant. So I suggested she contact the dealer where she bought it to see if they had a record. She said that was illogical and wrong thinking because they wouldn't keep records, they wouldn't know the history of the car. I said because it was an expensive local dealer they might have orginally sold the car as new, and had the same customer trade it in when they traded up. She kept insisting it was naive, wrong, incorrect, etc. Very hectoring and insistent, and I was tired. I said I have bought and sold a lot of cars and although I wasn't sure it would pan out it seemed like a reasonable first step to take.
Bottom line, it is an exhausting thing. She insists it's a "conversation" and to me it feels like being flayed alive. She says she's "offering me criticism" about my reasoning. I said, I have said goodbye to a friend today and I don't feel like listening to criticism. She was then extremely indignant and lectured me longer about what a terrible thing that was, to shut her down and refuse to accept criticism, because "I think I'm perfect." Relentless, exhausting. Finally, because she is relentless, I simply shut up, watched the captions on the TV program and held the phone at a distance and let her rip. When she subsided I was again warm and kind and when she had finished all she had to say, she was done. End of conversation.
So today I wrote her a lot of questions, like: why can't you let me be imperfect or inaccurate? Why do you keep going until I become submissive? I feel as though complete capitulation is all that will satisfy you, and I worry about what this bodes for your future relationships. I want you to have a happy mutual respectful relationship and when you are this rigid it won't work. And I told her it reminded me of how her father would treat me when he came home from a rough day at work and picked a fight. I asked a lot of questions like that, and closed by saying that the thing that really bothered me was that I told her I'd lost a friend, and she didn't ask me one thing about him. Such as, I'm sorry you lost a friend. Who was it? Tell me a little about him. I told her she needed to remember that other people weren't receptacles for her bad moods.
Her response chills me. It may sound familiar:
I did not unload my shitty day on you. Nor did I even mention my shitty day more than once, except to put it in the reference that we all have shitty days no matter what happens. I was trying to engage a conversation but you had no desire to be a part of it. I am not sorry for anything I said last night. Nor do I feel in the wrong about anything.
When things like this happen I feel bowed over with the fear (not the certainty -- if you feel it's hopelessly obvious, please be gentle...) that my daughter is a narcissist. She is very nice to me when she wants something or needs me. But if she is stressed or agitated...she's cold as a glacier.
I feel heartsick about it, and boy, would I love to be wrong.
(I called her dealer this a.m. and they had the records, and the answer I had thought they would have. I sent it to her.)
Hops
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(((((((((((((((Hops))))))))))))))) She may be simply a spoiled brat... no doubt she's acting like one.
When an adult chooses to behave like a two-year old - our own grown-child or not - she needs to reap the consequences for her actions.
Sweet Hops... my blunt opinion is - you shouldn'ta done her secretarial work for her and you shoulda told her why you weren't doin it.
You gave her wise counsel about the car situation = your work was done.
She fit-pitches over the phone... holding it away from your ear was too kind.
"Excuse me - you may take my wise counsel/suggestion or not - your choice - but I have something on the stove now - must run."
I'm so sorry she wasn't attuned to your need at that moment, but please see that by "helping" her re: the car, you didn't meet her genuine need, either.
She needed to be told right then and there that her mother doesn't receive that sort of talk from anyone, including her baby girl.
Much love to you and more hugs (((((((((((((Hops))))))))))) I am sorry about the loss of your friend and sorry this is so choppy, but I wanted to post immediately,
Carolyn
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Thank you, Carolyn.
You made me tear up and it's overdue.
love you,
Hops
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(((((((((((Hops))))))))))) Pretty teary here, too... with two older girls - @ 1,000 miles distant and yet merrily givin me silver streaks amidst the ... well, whatever.
I love you, too.
Carolyn
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Hops...love you. Didn't mean to remove my original message, though I am doing some deletes from 2006.
I still think things will work our amicablly with you and your daughter. At the least, you have my prayers for that.
tt
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Thank you, TT...hugs felt, gratefully.
It just hurts.
Sometimes she's so cold I feel sort of stunned.
And like a doormat, which must be obvious. :oops:
I know a lot of it is she's burying a lot of anxiety over her move.
She is very worried about getting approved for an apartment.
It's not that she's without feeling...there was a great explosion of grief for her Dad that she shared with me recently.
I just feel as though she's often without feeling for me.
Oh well, enough sulking.
Thank you for the kindness and support, CH, TT....
I know it must be hard to watch.
love
Hops
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My Dear Dear Hoppy-
You and your daughter have ups and downs. Sometimes there may be hurtful exchanges. At her age, it is hard to listen to speeches from Mom, even an extraordinary one such as Our Hoppy. Your daughter may feel very alone and almost too independent now, as if working without a net- scary. Sometimes when one is touchy emotionally, one cannot bear to be spoken to about the hurt- it is too hard to process precisely at that moment.
Her father is angelic, perfect and inviolate in her consciousness at this point. You however are alive, available and fallible. She can question and be angry with you, and know that you will not be lost to her. I am sorry that you have that burden here, it is unfair, but it is the truth. It would horribly unhealthy for her if her image of her father was crystallized in a negative way. The death of her father and the lack of a greater amount of support from other family has made you take the brunt of things financially and emotionally.
She may have had a terrificly horrible day. In that context, to hear comparisons with her father that are less than laudatory may have led to an unfortunate emotional reaction. It may have seemed like a cold response,but perhaps she shut down when she heard those comments. That is actually quite normal.Things are unbalanced and scary for both of you now...I am not excusing her here. You were at a low point as well. After the warmth and love at the service for your friend, almost any exchange would seem hollow and irritating, and your heart was wrung dry no doubt. You were both most likely quite sensitive at that precise juncture. A loving mother, you overextended yourself for her sake.
It is lovely that you care so much for your daughter. It seems that she is doing well despite many hurts and hardships- you have done a fabulous job. She may have a different communication style than you do, and may be at one of the tough points in life. But she is a good person. Perhaps she is your alive, available, and fallible being as well.
Sorry this happened when you were down, but don't let it trouble you Hoppy. She is blessed to have you, and you her, even when you are both feeling so sensitive and raw.
Don't Worry Hoppy. Don't be afraid to be excited for her future- it will turn out fine!
Love From Your Friend,
Changing
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You're right, Changing, and thank you.
I shouldn't have compared her to her father.
If only it weren't true.
He was hyper critical and negative and it drove me away.
I'm afraid the same will happen to her, and she's been so lonely.
:(
Hops
I think I should apologize to her for that but I am wrung dry with being the one who is accountable.
Well, nobody passes out blue ribbons.
Thank you, Changing, for always offering such sweet faith in me.
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My Dear Hoppy-
Relax!No more drama!Let it go for now. When next you speak with her, let her know how proud you are and how excited you are for her. I know this is how you truly feel. Don't bring up the Dad thing again- that is your fear. Let your sincere hopes and happiness flow Hoppy. She may not give you the expected response, but she will feel the vibe. This makes all the rest OK - all the work and stress-and is something no one else can give her in the same way that her mother can- approval, validation, the sense that she makes you as her mommy happy by being "her". If she brings up the Dad thing, just tell her that you are sorry that you spoke like a jackal- no big thing Hoppy. She was somewhat jackalish herself! By the way speaking of jackalishness, holding the phone away, etc when she is being witchy is the best solution!!!! Who needs to hear that? I will have to borrow that one from you Hoppy!!!!
She heard what you said about checking out the car, etc. When she asks for advice, etc or just unburdens herself, be judicious in your answers- just let her ask. Very very occassionaly, when you do offer something unsolicited, she will be more inclined to listen (and may still bristle- she is your daughter, not a partner or husband and may not always see things your way). She knows that you are a Wise Woman Hoppy. Most important, she knows that you are her wonderful mommy who believes in her enough to sacrifice, and is there for her. You sweet and sensitive creature. Now relax and be happy- your daughter is starting to fly solo to a higher place!!!!
Love You Wise Hoppy,
Changing
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Dear Hops,
Hugs to you, thats rough. I think your daughter is an especially un-tactful communicator, which is odd since she is your daughter (and you're the opposite). Maybe its a rebellion thing? Every now and again I deal with people who communicate in such a way, and although I totally cringe when I listen to their style of communicating, I've found that it does not necessarily reflect their heart. Its just how they talk (putting down someone in a direct manner, when they need not do that). If you had some European in your blood, I'd guess she's a nordic throwback, lol.
Don't worry Hops, I really think this is a communication style thing, and not more.
X bella
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(((((Hops))))))
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Dear ((((( Hops )))))
Truly, I felt how that must have felt.
When she called last night to ask you your opinion on her car repair situation she also mentioned she'd had a rotten day at work so maybe with all the stress of the changes going on at present in her life she may have felt inadequate/low self esteem? that she had not thought of the obvious thing to do, which was your sound sensible logical advice, in contacting the car dealer. Maybe she felt embarrassed. So, maybe that is why she let off all her feelings of maybe low self esteem and tiredness, anxiety and stress of all the recent life changes and anticipations, flow out that way towards/at you.
There is a saying "you always hurt the one you love."
That does not in any way excuse her wrongful behaviour towards you, just maybe, it's the root cause of the reason why.
Love to you,
Leah
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Hops.... I still don't have any words to comfort you.
I don't know nuthin about birthin no older children..... but I certainly can be driven into an emotional corner (fearful of touching the frog I think) and jinxing myself by commenting on things I'm involved in (I have 2 small female children) and have no ideas about: /
I've been thinking about your conversation.....
and I'm still thinkin.
I don't like to see you driven back on your heels.... how can you be proactive in your conversations with her?
I want you to float like a butterlyfly...... not stung by a bee.
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(((((((((((Hops))))))))))
Even if we could label your daughter, it won't change anything. The fact is, she can be cruel. I guess you will have to estimate whether the risk is worth communicating with her. If so, brace yourself for the kind of response she is capable of sending. You may find you need to detach from her some, and I can only imagine how difficult that must be when talking about one's child.
(((((((((Hops))))))))))) ...an extra hug...
Love, Beth
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Hops,
I'm so sorry--I have had exchanges with one son in particular that made my blood run cold. Amazingly, he is the one that I often connect with the most, so go figure.
How do you parent without feeling guilty? I think someone should hand out a guilt membership card on the delivery table.
Even if she's an N (I hate labels), I don't think they are as hopeless a might be assumed. You just have to set strong boundaries and stick with them. Dear Hopsy, if she says your idea is irrational and senseless, then let her have her opinion. Don't go on and make the call that you advised her to make. Let her live with consequences. Hard, huh? But it's really the only way. Plus--if it's important (for some perverse reason) that she NOT take your advice, having you prove her wrong will just prolong her attitude.
Now for true confessions: I was a real pill when I was your D's age. My mother had, at least, strong N tendencies and I had reason to be driven crazy by her. But I really had a mouth that wouldnt quit. I have grown up a lot--but if anyone had been watching, they would have seen me being dragged behind the metaphorical truck before I did. Don't rescue her, Hops. It may be her only hope, as it was mine. Yuck. How come life is so messy?
Here's a revelation that I discovered about me: when I rescue my kids, it is often about making ME feel better. I can't stand the pain of watching them suffer. If I was standing outside the situation, I would see things differently than I do when I am in it. I think that one thing that we have to do when dealing with our kids is to trust them to be as strong as we were when we suffered. Oh, so hard.
For years, Hops, I didnt know how to have an identity apart from my mother unless I rejected surface and external things about her. She was an executive in a cosmetics industry--I didnt wear makeup. She was a high-powered business woman, I stayed home with my kids. How much of that was really me? How much was a reaction? I dont think I'll ever know. But the point is--you have modeled for your D. the kind of self-reflection it takes to work her way out of the holes she is going to get herself into. All you can do now is stand back and let her do it.
Love you, Hops,
CB
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Hops,
I don't have anything to add to the responses from the Wise Women to a Wise Woman.
Just want to gently touch your face with a little paw.
Cat
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((((((Hops))))))
I've had this fear too. I have a hard time knowing what's normal behavior and what's abnormal with M. Sometimes he can be so self-centered, and then he surprises me.
I don't know how old your daughter is, so maybe she's going through normal behavior for this particular stage of her life. Just thinking that she knows better because she's been listening to you and is just stating her independence? I'm not sure.
I agree with CB, Hops. Don't save her from herself. My mother did that to me. She was always jumping in so I couldn't make a mistake. She'll learn lessons if she has to fall on her face a few times, and she'll probably be grateful eventually for you letting her mess up. LEtting her make her own mistakes, and not doing her work for her will make her stronger in the end.
It's impossible to parent without feeling guilty. I think that's part of the job, just like I think it's part of the job for us to try to protect our kids as much as possible. Part of the job too, though, is letting them grow up and not infantilizing them just because we don't want to let our babies go. Eventually, they have to leave the nest and strike out on their own, and then they'll make all sorts of mistakes. All we can do is hope we can give them the tools that they don't mess up too badly, and if they do come and ask for help, then we can always give it.
My mom stifled me, and I resented it horribly. When I was in my early 20's, I did things just because I could and she told me I couldn't. She'd tell me I couldn't quit my job, so I would. She told me I could do a particular job, I did it anyway. I was a little **tch. I thought I knew everything. I think it's normal. I grew up eventually.
Love to you,
T
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::afraid to contemplate the subject of my children growing past small::
That's another chapter..... lots of research and learning from those that go before.
Into that great unknown.... Hops and CB.... you go first.
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Loving our children can be so painful. You work so hard on this precious relationship. I am sending you a hug full of love.
May the New Year bring you both closer, filled with more days of peace and love.
oxox seasons
p.s. she is still so young, immature etc. I remember how I acted without much thought, to quickly and not thoughtful enough. Let her grow and blossom and hope she will.
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Dears:
I would like to recap a lineup of such good comfort and sound advice--it's really amazing when I look at it all together, a bolstering armada of help!
Bella, thanks for saying it's not necessarily a reflection of what's in her heart. I think you're right. Although she is a Viking Amazon Pirate, she will dive off the ship to rescue a turtle (if not this turtle) :?
Leah, thanks for being so compassionate and perceptive about how she was feeling. I am grateful.
Lighter, proactive is a very helpful thing to say...I am going to think more on it. Thank you. And thanks for just your company and the :: . I don't know what :: means but I feel happy when I see it! :lol:
Beth, thanks for reminding me to detach some. It is hard and maybe antithetical, but I remember when I had to pull back like that after another bout with her, the transition to changing my stance was painful but I was happier afterward -- not so much with her, but with myself. It may not be "anti-parenting" to detach, just an evolution into a healthier way of perceiving her/us.
CB, busted! You're exactly right. I feel so much distress at her distress that part of the reason I rescue her is to rescue myself from my own discomfort. Thanks for that reality check. I need to get a grip.
Tay, thanks for reminding me the goal is NOT to hold her too close, but to let her fly. She's literally NOT "my baby" and I should stop responding as though she were a child. (And then maybe she'll act less like one.)
Amber, thanks for sharing about your daughters. I was heartened by your mention that even Daughter A (my D's long-lost twin!) is sometimes in a good place. That's true for my D too. And she has more growing up to do. So more time for things to ameliorate some. Not quite fixed in granite, yet.
Seasons, thanks so much for your compassion and understanding. So comforting to just have to see how I was feeling; your kindness is balm.
Now this--she called again today, lots of faxing back and forth as I cosign her lease (her credit's trashed from way back when her Dad died and she wasn't functioning sanely. She called to tell me there are additional fees being required of her because of her credit rating and a large pet fee. I bit my tongue and did not offer to help. She hemmed and hawed and paused significantly, and I did not offer.
I think this is what y'all meant by not rescuing her. I found it hard, but given recent exchanges and current financial strain, I think I did the right thing by not stepping up to add more debt for myself.
Ooof. That really is difficult, but I did it.
I am so very very grateful to all of you.
THANK YOU.
love,
Hops
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Dear Cat's Paw,
I can't believe I left out the loving little cat-kiss, which touched me very much. Thank you!!
love
Hops
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Hops,
Brava. Now go massage your tum-tum with warmth till the ooof turns into an aaah of knowing you did the right thing-
for both of you.
Cat
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Hops,
Good for you. You did the right thing, even though it hurts. I know it's not the same, but . . .
I'd alwasy checked over M's work and made him correct things if it was wrong so that he got all A's until this year. I decided this year I wasn't going to do it anymore. He was going to learn to be responsible for his work. If he didn't bring something home, he had to suffer the consequences. No, he's not getting all A's, but he has learned to be more careful. I noticed he's started filling out full sections on his tests instead of writing one five word sentence. He acts like he cares a little more about school, because I'm not going to rescue him by proofing and checking his work for mistakes. It took a lot of stress off both of us, and we don't spend all night doing homework.
I think we all have to learn to stand on our own, even our babies. No matter how much it hurts us.
Does this make sense? I'm not really sure.
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Daer Hop, I was going to tell you that you D might be ressentful of the time that you were nicer to your husband (her stepfather) than to her. Or so I understood. But I do not know the facts. You might have been wonderful with her. So, I changed my mind because I have been a very devoted mother, been divorced for seventeen years, no boyfriends, just a few dates here and there, and never brougth a man to live in our house because I did not want another person to make my son uncomrotable. Yet, many times he sounds ungrateful, talks back, is unconsiderate, does not listen to me, etc. Still he is a good boy, no smoke, no drugs, good grades in college. Etc. So, if your daughter is not doing drugs, is going to school, is working, never been arrested, going for a master degree. What else can we ask from our children?
I guess we want our children to comfort us but the rain comes from up to down no viceverse.
My son went to our country against my will, with his girlfriend, spending the little money he got together, if his car brakes, if he has an accident, if he fails to pay his car payment, I cosigned for him, etc.
My point here is that we are lucky to have healthy children who work hard. I do not know what I am saying. I want to give you consolation and I guess I am not doing a good job.
If my post is not helpful, disregard it. I am doing it with the best of intentions beacuse you are a wonderful person.
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You are doing a great job Lup!
Very perceptive and insightful.
About El Stupido Stepdaddo, and the rest of it too.
I love the expression, the rain falls down not up...what a great image for parental love and responsibility.
thank you!
(((((Lupita)))))
xo
Hops
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Well Hops, although some people shudder at the idea of giving people labels, I have no problem with either being labeled or giving them, so I'm going to agree mostly with CB's post. (except the part about "i hate labels")
CB: Even if she's an N (I hate labels), I don't think they are as hopeless a might be assumed. You just have to set strong boundaries and stick with them. Dear Hopsy, if she says your idea is irrational and senseless, then let her have her opinion. Don't go on and make the call that you advised her to make. Let her live with consequences. Hard, huh? But it's really the only way. Plus--if it's important (for some perverse reason) that she NOT take your advice, having you prove her wrong will just prolong her attitude.
I believe your daughter does show narcissistic thinking. My daughter has treated me the same way. I do think the best thing for us to do, is let them act stupid and selfish, and keep them in prayer as they "reap what they sow." This world, for the most part, is not fond of catering to self-centered, egotistic folk, although i have seen some people pretty "snowed" by the N's I've come in contact with. Just let go of your need to "own" any of her reactions, because honestly, it's not worth it in the longrun. Just focus on you and your life and let her fend for herself until and unless she is going to respect your right to disagree and see things differently.
My children call me "paranoid" all the time, because I AM! I AM afraid that if the goof around in the kitchen, while holding a knife, that they might fall on it. I am afraid that if they are throwing paper airplanes, someone's eye might get poked out. I am afraid that if they leave their sister in the tub alone, she might drown (it has happened to someone I know), I am afraid that if they try to balance on that fence, they could fall and become impaled.
Am I paranoid? YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS! But my children are alive to show results of my PARANOIA...thank GOD, someone was!
BE concerned, Hops, but realize that your daughter wants to give an appearance of "knowing all without mom's help" in the end. It's just how they are...with my own daughter trying to be as different from me as possible and bragging that it SHALL be done with her own daughter...this we shall see, right?
hugs,
~Laura
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Hops,
Can I point out you made an excuse for your daughter? You said she ruined her credit because of her dad dying. Now I know that must have been a horrible time for her, but she made a choice. I am sure that you were there for her, as were others. Please remember that she does make choices and you have to hold her accountable (as you are doing).
I think, as I know I have said before, that she will respect you much more if she does not see you as a tool for her convenience. Be strong!!!!!!!!
Lots of love,
Beth
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Lighter, proactive is a very helpful thing to say...I am going to think more on it. Thank you. And thanks for just your company and the :: . I don't know what :: means but I feel happy when I see it! :lol:
I think this is what y'all meant by not rescuing her. I found it hard, but given recent exchanges and current financial strain, I think I did the right thing by not stepping up to add more debt for myself.
Ooof. That really is difficult, but I did it.
I am so very very grateful to all of you.
THANK YOU.
love,
Hops
::explaining to Hops about the :: thing, lol:: I put actions inside those :: thingys, lol.
I guess that maybe part of people not understanding 65% of what I write, lol?
So glad you stepped back with your daughter and provided her and yourself with some boundaries that will help her realize she's not a child anymore, she's an adult, responsible for herself and anything you help her with...... is a gift.
And a hardwon gift of sacrifice, at that.
I don't suppose we do our children any favors when we save them from getting their little noses bloodied, at every turn.
I remember when I was in my early 20's, still living at home, just left school...... my father gave me a little speech and sat back to see how I did.
I was going into business for myself ( designing and producing Point of Purchase Sales and Adverstising.......) which was his business too.
He said.... "Go out and start cold calling on the accounts that are least important.... go out and get your nose bloody. By the time you've worked your way up to the important accounts..... you'll know what you're doing."
Talk about being sick and (a pregnant Holiday Inn, non client beat the crap out of me, but good NOT LITERALLY, lol) learning how to field the really tough questions, find the answers and figure out how to answer all questions in the future.
Thank God he let me experience, grow and learn for myself. Your daughter will some day HAVE to depend on herself.... and the best gift you can give her is self reliance.
If she still really really needs to come to you and ask for help..... she'll have learned something about gratitude and being more humble.... which are very important too.
You're a good mama and fine human being.
::whispering:: And your teaching her to set future boundaries for herself.
::nodding:: You're brilliant and I learn from watching you ((Hops))
[/quote]
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Wow, Lighter, this was so true and poignant:
If she still really really needs to come to you and ask for help..... she'll have learned something about gratitude and being more humble.... which are very important too.
The thing that stuck out to me with both your daughter and mine, Hops, is that lack of gratitude and humility, as Lighter said. My daughter feels ENTITLED to having people give to her, like she is some sort of Prima Donna. Her attitude is "why WOULDN'T people give me things. After all, everyone ADORES me and I know it." The casual onlooker finds her words/attitude humorous, even precocious. They dont' realize that she is not playin...she really BELIEVES THAT WAY!
If I say "Anna, you look nice today," her response is usually "uh huh. I know I do. It's about time you realized that." Or "Of course I do. I look nice everyday."
Then, if I try to correct her, by saying, "Let's try another response, Anna. How about "Thank you for the compliment," or "That's so kind of you." She will look at me with a condescending glare and say "Annnnnnnnnyway..."
Some people told me "oh that's just part of being a teenager." I do not agree with that at all. My daughter is narcissistic and only GOD can get through to her.
Hops, does your daughter have that same self-righteous attitude? If so, she is definitely showing narcissism, whether people want to "label" or not. It is what it is.
~Laura
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Hi RM,
Though you may be right, for me so far it's just too painful to talk about my D as "an N." Just to apply the label. I don't want to adopt that habit of referring to her, so I won't. (I'd honestly rather you didn't either, if you'd permit.) But narcissistic behavior, certainly. She's not as verbally abusive as yours is, has had too much etiqutte rammed into her...but even when she's being "intellectual" about things when she's under stress she can dump on me in a truly relentless fashion. And at times cruel, as I think Hope called it for what it was.
I am not so much in denial about the bad parts of her nature as I am those of my own, I think.
You do have a very bold toughness in facing facts. I sometimes envy it, but our differences are what makes this such a good stew.
Thanks for caring. (Yep, you can add sometimes self-righteous to that list. Hmm.)
love,
Hops
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Hop, please, think inside you and try to discover, if by any chance you have ruined things for your daughter in some unintentional way. Just food for thought. I have always thought that kids do not dislike thier parents just for nothing. There has to be a reason.
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In my case I overprotected my son. And he tells me. "My friends do not respect me because of you" etc. We always do something, there is no caus wiht out effect nor effect with out cause.
Like fat women who say I do not know how come I am fat, I do not eat at all. I was obese in the past. Einstein said from nothing, nothing can be made. So, there must be soemthing.
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Hi Lupita,
If I began the list of mistakes I made with my daughter I would be up all night.
Absolutely, I contributed to some of her troubles and behaviors.
Overprotection was definitely one. I think you may have read about some of the others, my selfishness in choosing a foolish second marriage over staying single until she was 18 was a big one.
But the most of it I have to hand over to her now. She has also been enormously loved and cared for and supported by me.
So it's up to her now what she does with the mix.
love
Hops
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Dear Hops,
I just composed a brilliant (kind of the big one that got away) response to your thread concerning your daughter but it vanished into thin air. I'll give it another not so brilliant try.
Have you encounered people whose first answer (and often final answer) to an idea or suggestion is always NO? I have, and it has always puzzled me because it seems like such a self-limiting approach to life and its many issues. Anyway, I decided to ask one of these people who I was pretty sure would give me an honest answer, why their first answer to everything was no. I do believe he was honest. His answer was, when I respond that way, it means that I have made up my mind and I need no further input. Being one who believes that it is good to have many counselors, this seems bass ackwards to me, but I have to respect his honesty. I'm wondering if your daughter is one of these people. If she is, then I think it sets the stage for you to depersonalize her response (as much as is possible for a mother) and give her the liberty to exercise her inalienable right to be wrong.
From the heart of another mommy who believes she understands your pain.
tt
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Dear Hops,
Your daughter is having tantrums. This is pretty immature. Not worth taking personally. I know this sounds awefully simploistic. However, when raging bull is attacking, step aside. She seems to get very young when she is tired and frazzled.
You never deserve to just stand there and take. it. You are such a good person. Believe in yolurself. Your daughter is going to have to live her own life and face the consequences for lashing out at people. At this point you let it cut you to ribbons.
So if precious treasure and beloved daughter is tired and cranky and giving you an earful it might be better to cut if short. For some reason this kiid bullies you. Maybe she needs you to be strong and say "You are tired and cranky and hurting my feelings. Goodnight"
I had to do that with my daughter who is thirty. I loved that kid. Stlll do. But I had to tell her I was tired of being her verbal punching bag. Now I wont' tangle with her and she has reduced her lashing.
Oh I just hope what I say helps a little. Your love for your daughter is so big and beautiful and lI think she is a silly girl who is squandering your relationship.
Love
Sea storm
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Hi TT, I do feel very very understood. Thank you so much. And "her inalienable right to be wrong" is a fantastic (and funny) phrase. I'll commit that one to memory. Depersonalizing it when she's having hissy fits, is exactly precisely the mature thing I need to do. Golden advice...
Thank you too, Sea. The best on-the-spot specific is just what you said, if she's hurting my feelings, cut it short.
And Beth, thank you (very belatedly, sorry) for the reminder to not make excuses for her. She did make those choices, a lot of rage in them back then, though she took most of it out on herself. But still, even a dead Dad is no excuse to chew holes in a mother who is loving to you.
GS, from the other thread where you've also been so very kind and supportive, thank you...
I'm happy to say that our farewell this morning was a big surprise. I met her in a nearby city for breakfast while she had her car taken care of (she leaves with the UHaul tonight with two friends along to help, bless them). We had a wonderful talk and she was very open. Said she's scared to death, can't believe she's moving so far to a huge city where she knows not a soul, and I told her she is totally capable, and though she's scared she's also excited. She also reminded me several times to send her directions to the local congregation of our church, which I totally didn't expect. When we said goodbye she wouldn't stop hugging me and then she cried. I felt bad for her but it was very healing for me to see she will miss me. She kept waving and saying I love you until we coudln't see each other. Knock me over with a feather. So my heart's at peace and she's well and truly on her own. I'll be going there for a few days in March to visit.
Thanks to all of you for holding my hand through the last gasps of untangling enmeshment!
I feel relief. The distance will help her complete the individuation she needs, and leave me more freedom too. And it seems pretty clear to me that we'll be close as adults now. A new kind of thing.
love
Hops
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Hops,
I am so happy for the both of you. I felt the love from you both. You are such a brave, supportive mother, thank you for sharing so deeply. I have taken away so much and hope I one day, as mine spread their wings and fly.... I can be as loving as a mother as you!
Hops
oxox always seasons
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Hoppy You Dear Thing-
I am so proud of both of you. You have really passed a difficult milestone so beautifully- you have fortified your daughter and given her what only you can- a feeling of pleasing her mother and of being whole in her eyes. I am so happy for you both.
Love and Joy,
Changing