Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Overcomer on December 22, 2007, 10:39:03 AM
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I was thinking over the last couple of days about this board. I stopped by and saw that someone was cloning our members. Probably so they could say slanderous things as someone else.
I remember the time I first came on this board. I desperately needed help. Validation. I needed someone to understand my extreme frustration. Someone to empathize with my journey. Someone to give me some advise.
So I posted something a week or so ago about how my mom had ignored a NO and brought someone over to my house after I said NO. I think I got one comment like, "oh that is how Ns are............" No other comment. I could have used a.........."how are you going to confront her, Kelly?" Or a..........."what you could have done differently is....." Or a.........."good for you for stretching and realizing maybe it wasn't you mom afterall.........maybe the woman was the one who would not take no for an answer and your mom has the problem with setting boundaries (which was the case................) But instead I got nothing.
So then I started to think about America's fascination with Reality TV......the split screen where Rosie O'Donnell and Elizabeth Hasselbeck were arguing on The View. The drama between women in The Bachelor. It dawned on me.............why would anyone go to my boring little thread and give me just a little support when they could go to a thread where two or three members were bickering back and forth.........almost like a soap opera............I wonder what is going to happen today.......?
So that is why I said I was going to take a little break from the board. I am in a good place right now. My mom and I are not fighting. Everything is going pretty well (and boy, am I happy for that...............if it wasn't going well I would be a basket case with the death and a move and surgery.........)
But I realized I was coming to the board to watch the drama unfold. It was almost like watching a boxing match and waiting for the referee to step in and call a time out (Dr. G) The healing balm our members need was being upstaged by continual conflict.
So I just wanted you all to know that. I love you all. And will probably keep coming around and might scream for help when something happens.....
On a better note. My Christmas shopping is pretty much done. I think I will wrap the gifts today when we are iced in. Ice coming. Snow on top of that and then high winds!!!
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OVERCOMER:
So I posted something a week or so ago about how my mom had ignored a NO and brought someone over to my house after I said NO. I think I got one comment like, "oh that is how Ns are............" No other comment. I could have used a.........."how are you going to confront her, Kelly?" Or a..........."what you could have done differently is....." Or a.........."good for you for stretching and realizing maybe it wasn't you mom afterall.........maybe the woman was the one who would not take no for an answer and your mom has the problem with setting boundaries (which was the case................) But instead I got nothing.
and you needed US for this? Seems like you have an EXCELLENT way of self-talk and figuring out your own issues. I think you did just find without external input, actually.
~Laura
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Yeah, I really did not need help, maybe just some support........but my point is that people don't bother with those only drama ones....
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Kelly - I think the drama is a game. I, for one, do not ever wish to play them and I don't like them when I see it going on. One constant in my life is that anytime someone sees or senses me running a psych game, I welcome having my attention called to it so I can learn and change my behavior. I used to be into Transactional Analysis heavily, and there's one game applicable here: "Let's see you and her fight".
Thanks for posting this.
Kate
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regarding what towrite said about the game being: "let's see you and her fight"
In a recent situation, my name of the game was, "let's see if I can get these two people to come to a compromise, by helping them see the other's point of view."
I have learned, through trying in vain to mediate between my sister-in-law and her ex husband, that this RARELY works. One of the people inevitably will turn a deaf ear to the other one, insisting that they were saying or meaning such and such, when it's clear to most people that was not at all where their heart was. In those cases, I've learned to speak what I have to say and then back out of it.
To be honest, I start feeling myself become angry at the person who will not hear the other person's side in things, so it's best anyway for me to step out, lest I then become the new target.
~Laura
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The true fact is, one always gets to know; who is, or who is not, genuine. Who will, or who will not, offer some glimmer of genuine support, undertanding, insight, and/or signposting. Who is genuinely selfless, or, who has an 'all about me and my needs' approach to people. Who is, and who is not, dependent on the words of praise to fill an inner empty void. Who does, and does not, responds with envy, or, from a perception of lack of attention. Who is, and who is not, needy. Who has, and who has not, an apparent inner purpose and contentment.
Then there is the disordered person, who behaves in a disordered way, which you get to know, and see.
What You See Is What You Get.
It's the same all world over, in real life, and, in a supportive community environment - cyber or none.
It's simply, a fact of life.
Leah
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.........."how are you going to confront her, Kelly?" Or a..........."what you could have done differently is....." Or a.........."good for you for stretching and realizing maybe it wasn't you mom afterall.........maybe the woman was the one who would not take no for an answer and your mom has the problem with setting boundaries (which was the case................)
Speaking just for myself, Kelly, I am so gunshy of responding the way you suggest above--because of all the conflict lately. I think of things I could say in reponse to posts, but I'm wary of saying anything much. If I think that I could suggest something you could do differently, I doubt that I will say anything.
Trust me, I wasnt so enamored with the other conflict-ridden posts that yours appeared boring. I don't like reality TV and can hardly wait until this entertainment fad ends and we get back to stories.
Love,
CB
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I'm sorry I didn't stop to offer you support, Kel.
You really have been carrying a lot on your shoulders...
it's good to hear that you're feeling in a better place now.
Any time you need it, saying "I need support" can really help it happen...
If I'm online I'll come out of my fog and answer.
love and a happy Christmas to you,
Hops
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Thanks to C B and Hops. I would not have snapped at you C but maybe someone else might have. And Hops I really did not need a lot of support but what I was saying is that maybe someone would need support and we all are flocking to the conflict and ignoring those in need. Merry Christmas to you all too!
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(((((((overcomer)))))))
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Overcomer - I really connect with your first post here. I have had similar feelings since I first began to post on this site. I vacillate between a sense of belonging here and longing for more connection than I experience here. In truth, I don't experience a strong sense of connection, in fact my sense of connection is quite tenuous. I do belong here. We all do. It is the commonality of our profound woundedness issuing forth from our experiences with Ns.
There are several people here whom I have an affinity for but in each case my affinity is not felt in return and just as in 3D world I experience this as profound rejection. It's really not but I am sooooo predisposed for rejection that I experience so much as that.
I have looked to others to fill that hole for so long, that hole that should have been fillled by loving parents from the very start. But that did not happen and now it is up to me to find a way to fill that hole. I still so long for another or others to come along and fill it but that leaves me susceptible to real abuse. When I find a way to fill it by my own then I will overcome the sense of reject that has been the controlling force in my entire life.
I have been thinking about your post for the past several days and about something that Write posted. I do keep coming here as though doing so will eventually pave over that hole but it won't - no more than a new relationship or a new friendship or a new car or house or baby will pave over that hole, no more than going over the offenses of my parents and brothers and husband or lost friendships.
I am left with me and my God to fill my holes and restore me. I am led astray when that feels not enough.
(Overcomer, I want to be clear that I am not tellling you what YOU need to do, I am writing here about myself in response to a place in my heart that reading your post touched. I am writing just about myself, thinking outloud as it were.)
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Overcomer - I really connect with your first post here. I have had similar feelings since I first began to post on this site. I vacillate between a sense of belonging here and longing for more connection than I experience here. In truth, I don't experience a strong sense of connection, in fact my sense of connection is quite tenuous. I do belong here. We all do. It is the commonality of our profound woundedness issuing forth from our experiences with Ns.
There are several people here whom I have an affinity for but in each case my affinity is not felt in return and just as in 3D world I experience this as profound rejection. It's really not but I am sooooo predisposed for rejection that I experience so much as that.
I have looked to others to fill that hole for so long, that hole that should have been fillled by loving parents from the very start. But that did not happen and now it is up to me to find a way to fill that hole. I still so long for another or others to come along and fill it but that leaves me susceptible to real abuse. When I find a way to fill it by my own then I will overcome the sense of reject that has been the controlling force in my entire life.
I have been thinking about your post for the past several days and about something that Write posted. I do keep coming here as though doing so will eventually pave over that hole but it won't - no more than a new relationship or a new friendship or a new car or house or baby will pave over that hole, no more than going over the offenses of my parents and brothers and husband or lost friendships.
I am left with me and my God to fill my holes and restore me. I am led astray when that feels not enough.
(Overcomer, I want to be clear that I am not tellling you what YOU need to do, I am writing here about myself in response to a place in my heart that reading your post touched. I am writing just about myself, thinking outloud as it were.)
Dear GS
I think that the answer to OUR dilemma is to carry our "home" with us. IOW, for me, I need to be at home in my own skin. I have memories of this, so at least I know what it feels like .Do you know what I mean about feeling at home within yourself?Have you ever felt this sense of centeredness, GS?
For me,I am striving to find that centeredness . I think that we are like Dorothy. We HAVE the answer,but it is obscured under all the lies that we believed about our worthlessness . We (I was) taught that I needed to get approval from outside in order to be OK( another lie)All these lies about who we are are what is destroying us. We have to root out these lies and replace them with the truth( we have unherent value from God)
About drama---*I *had my fill for about.......Oh------ ten lifetimes(lol) Ami
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Yes I get it Ami. I get glimpses of that centeredness. That is all I get so far but I see that as significant. My goal is to turn these glimpses into longer and longer periods.
I love that understanding of Dorothy. For so long I couldn't understand how I could have the answer but thankfully now I do. I so hope we can get their in 2008 - get home in ourselves. Here's wishing us all a happier new year!
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GS: I have always felt a kinship with you and miss you when you are gone for a long time. Sometimes those voices who helped me when I needed it and then they be not here leaves me feeling all alone. I am glad You felt the same when you read it. I want those supportive friends back!
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Thank you for that wonderful Christmas gift Overcomer. I cannot tell you how deeply it touches me to read that you feel a kinship with me. I know there have been some times when we really connect, understanding each other's struggle and sharing a common determination to move forward. I am claiming great progress for 2008 - for myself and you and others. Thanks again.
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You are welcome and I mean it. My goal is to become a better me in 2008. I am enrolling in a Small Group in January for women and its topic is self esteem-I might even meet some new people. Ialso found a network company that is truly ground floor-I am going to go for that this year too-a liquid vitamin supplement with exotic juices etc. You have a happy Christmas and New Years!
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Dear GS,
I have felt the same way about my "relationship "with you,as Kelly has. When I first came on the board,you were trying to find your "voice" in your relationship with your F. You had your perceptions confirmed when he was seen by others(professionals) the same way that you saw him. I could relate to the ups and downs of your struggles with an N parent.
You were always an honest voice and willing to go the extra mile to try to find your own truth. I have missed you .. I have wondered where you were.
When people'leave",I always think that they got "well" and didn't need the board,anymore. I thought that about you. Your sense of "not belonging" is internal(IMO)
It is your own sense of "shame' or being different. I know, in my life, that when I "belonged' inside myself, I belonged with people. When I was isolated from myself, I felt isolated from people. I think that it is an 'internal" drama that is "playing out" on the outside.
You should write a thread about feeling like you don't belong. If you don't want to----I will. Just tell me.
Love Ami
(((((((((((GS)))))))))))))))))
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Dear Kelly,
Since you started talking about changes that you want to make in the New Year,I will add a few. I want to get out more. I need a bull dozer to drag me out(lol)
When the bull dozer comes ,I go out. If not, I stay in--bleh.
As I was telling GS,I need to have my "home"(myself) with me so that I can go more confidently in to the world. Last night,I went to a party. I could see that we all, as humans. struggle in the same ways. I went "down" more b/c of an N mother and b/c I stopped 'trying", at some point.I gave up b/c I could not get out of the "numb" zone. All my activities were 'grey" so it wan't worth trying,anymore. I was 'underwater" as my M was.
Now, I have hope. I can see myself getting "normal". I can see it out over the horizen. I am not there,yet. I don't even know all the steps ,yet. They will open up one by one, I think.
God can provide amazing unexpected blessings.. After all I have been through,it was worth it to know Him. He will rehabilitate me ,if I do the steps,"on the ground". Happy Holidays,Kelly. Thanks for ALL you have given me and it was considerable(lol)
Ami
((((((((((Kelly)))))))))))
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Your sense of "not belonging" is internal(IMO)
Wow - when I first read this, I thought, "Yes - that's right." And then it really hit me. Oh - it is internal, meaning I have the power to change it. It is not external, it does not depend on others. Could that be true? Of course it is true! Could it really be true? Yes of course - really?
I've got it and then I don't. I've got it and then it is gone. But I will get it and it will become incorporated and it will be me.
You were always an honest voice and willing to go the extra mile to try to find your own truth. I have missed you .. I have wondered where you were.
When people'leave",I always think that they got "well" and didn't need the board,anymore. I thought that about you.
I cannot thank you enough. I have been so alone and lonely and I have struggled with so much these past 6 years. I lost so much in a short period of time and then hit such deep lows that all who had been my "friends" went away. I became so embittered and the range of rejection expanded exponentially. For two years now I have worked solidly on reversing my bitter, angry self and have made tremendous strides. I am now a person whom I like but the damage was done and I am still ostrasized in the community. It takes a while to overcome that damage. Add that to the experience of "rejection" growing up as the object of "projection" in an N family and I can walk down the street and expect someone to stop their car to offer me criticism. - Yeah - now that's definitely internal. Thank you so very much. I can change anything "internal." I have control over me. Thank you for sharing that.
I like the idea of starting a thread on "not belonging". I want to think about it a day. (If I don't - gently tap me, I have been absent minded lately.) Thank you so much - your words are such salve. Thank you and thank this place.
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Dear GS,
Thank you for "allowing"me to help you. Your 'joy" at seeing this truth helps me and gives me strength on a day when I am struggling to see my own value.
I know what you mean about expecting criticism all the time --from everyone and everyplace.I have faced more of myself today and it is NOT pretty. I am very beaten down. I was talking to my F and I could see how I got so damaged from an N M an then an N(ish) H. There is an actual syndrome called abused wife syndrome ,I think. Even the court says that you are "not right" when you have been beaten down for so long.
I made a little progress toward finding my core-15%--maybe. Now, I can look back and face again HOW low I have gotten.
Your post today showed me that I have value to help s/one and it was all my joy, GS,much more than yours. Love Ami
((((((((((((GS)))))))))))))))
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You rock girls!
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Kel,
I am excited to hear about your women's group. Hope you'll share how it goes!
Once I became deeply bonded in a small group similar to that (I think), my life changed a lot for the better.
GS, you have become so reflective. You have so much perspective. It's as though since you were absent a while, you've not only done a lot of emotional healing but have looked at things as a story arc. That's very positive, imo. It's like you're no longer trapped in your own story but are releasing it to move forward. I see an enormous difference in your voice. There's more space in it.
love
Hops
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Thanks Hops - your words mean the world to me. I so respect your perspective. I am not able to see that change in myself so it is quite a gift to hear your sense. I am determined to make the change from what I have been to being positive and determined, to focus on the good and let go of the offences. Once I saw the value of these changes I expected it would be a simple step of mind over matter. Well Mind Over Matter it may be but it has not been simple nor quick. But I don't have a choice - I have to keep going in this direction. My only complain is how slow the transition is. But I am thankful to have the vision of where I want to go.
I'll be thinking of you and your daughter. Hope your time together is even better than your last get together. As she matures I believe she will be able to see how fortunate she is to have you as her mother. I have a nephew who at 15 takes out on his mother his anger towards his father and vice-versa. (They are divorced for 2 years.) I have long suspected and thought I heard hints in some of your posts, that she is taking out on you her anger at the loss of her father. I think it is worse because you are the person who you are - i.e. you are kind, tolerant and in it for the long haul and on some level she knows you will never let go of her no matter how horribly she acts towards you. She can count on you and so she is taking her pain out on you. It's strange return for your love but I think she is reaching the age where the root of her actions will begin to become clear to her and at long last you will see the fruits of your love. When it does turn, don't be surprised if you feel hints of anger towards her for the sorrow she has put you through. I do believe it is coming to and end for you in the next year or two. -
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Thanks, GS, those are lovely words.
I believe you, too.
I am feeling a lot of peace about my daughter.
We meet tomorrow morning for a farewell breakfast.
And in a way, though I'll worry sometimes, I'm glad she's going so far.
I think it will help her complete the transition to standing on her own two feet,
which should make our relationship happier and healthier going forward.
The financial well isn't just dry, it's caved in, so that part has to stop.
So now that I'm no longer able to be her banker, maybe she'll take a new tack.
She does call me a lot more frequently to talk things over, and you're right,
she has no fear of losing me.
Thanks for your encouraging words, GS.
love
Hops
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I'm glad it is going well Hops. I have a vision of a true healing of your relationship with her. I will hold that vision for you both.