Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: reallyME on December 24, 2007, 12:04:30 PM
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Ami, I hope you don't mind me starting this post with your quote:
We (I was) taught that I needed to get approval from outside in order to be OK( another lie)
I have seen this as one of the main issues of people still struggling with N-abuse issues. They are still wanting and longing for the approval that is not going to come from a narcissist, parent or no.
Please, do yourselves a favor and learn how to find acceptance in yourselves in whatever way that comes for you. You DESERVE to feel secure with yourselves and in your lives. Don't keep on in the vicious cycle of unmet needs. I know it hurts and is so hard and confusing and upsetting to tell yourself "mom/dad/friend/sister/relative, will most likely NEVER treat me nicely, meet my needs, hug me, nurture me, barring a miracle of God in themselves." but until you get to the point of inner acceptance of this, and realize you need to find a better, healthier way to meet your needs, you will spin in circles endlessly. The N just was not created with the ability to love and nurture you in them. I'm so sorry.
Even the Bible states "hope deferred makes the heart sick."
Please do your best to find worth in yourself, with the help of medicine, a minister, a counselor, God, etc, and move on in life to positive things.
This is my Christmas gift and urge for anyone who wants to receive it.
~Laura
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What *I* want to know Laura is HOW did you get SO smart????(lol) Love Ami
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any intelligence I have comes from God's wisdom imparted, reading books, and experience.
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Yes, God 's wisdom is what makes sense of this crazy world(lol) ,Laura. Love Ami
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RM,
Yes so true, thank you.
Bean,
Way to go. Taking care of you. Your comments and reactions were very wise. ((Bean))
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Dear Bean,
I bow down and take off my cyberspace hat(lol). I WISH that I was as mature as you are in this area. Well. you can blaze the trail for me. I have such a long way to go to get where you are. I think that I am reallly just beginning my "internal" journey,now. My M's visit set me free to find myself. I don't have to "protect" her anymore.Now, I can grow the way that I should have ,earlier .Bean, keep sharing. You give me hope that I can get there,too. Love Ami
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Laura,
I have really been thinking about this alot the past few days. Logically, intellectually I know that I will never be what N wants or ever get the emotions I desire from him, but I still have that need. I have been trying to find ways to let go, but it seems to come in waves when I least expect it. I have been listening to my Christian radio station when I'm in the car and I believe God has geared alot of it intentionally for me. I just want the pain to go away and to look forward to living again. I hate that I have given N so much power over my life. You are so right, there is no way to make them feel what we think we need, I need to fix me.
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Dear Alone,
I think that you are doing very,very well. I can empathize with the "addictive' feeling that you have for your N. I "hear" that in your posts. Maybe,I am wrong.
It is really horrible to "crave" a person who is bad for you. It is like "craving" a whole chocolate cake,but worse(lol)--much worse. I think that if you could look at the "roots" of the craving,it would help.
You are probably craving a mother of father. He probably "feels" like one of these relationships---good and bad.
Maybe,if you write out all your feelings about the "cravings',it will help. It has helped me in the past,Alone. Thanks for your frienship. I appreciate it very much Love Ami
(((((((((Alone)))))))))
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Laura- Can you tell me where the hope deferred makes the heart sick verse is in th Bible? I would like to read the whole passage. Maybe that is why I am heart sick all the time-I keep hoping for something to happen.
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Dear Kelly,
I think that it is Proverbs. Look in the back in the concordance under "hope". It is amazing how profound every ,single proverb is----every single word, really. Love Ami
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Yeah I know-I was taking the lazy way out. I have an Exhaustive Concordance but it is still packed away.
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Proverbs 13:12 (NASV)
Hope deferred makes the heart sick, But desire fulfilled is a tree of life.
I believe that the above scripture is the one that you are looking for.
Love, Leah
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thanks, Leah.
Every time I have to hear H's voice or watch the weird way he always HAS to tuck his shirts into his pants (looks like a geek, like Steve Urkel or Screech or something)......it is very hard to not feel that MY hope is being deferred.
So, those of you who are struggling in situations that are far less than ideal in marriage, know that I"m right with ya. Yeah, communication has improved a bit in marriage to where NH is a bit more conscious of being a butt head, but the large N part of him, has not totally transformed nor disappeared. He thinks he looks like "everybody else" but everybody else that tucks their shirts in, does not have super high hipbones and a very straight body, like a box...it looks STUPID and the N part in me doesn't want to be associated with him, the geek.
I want to say "I FEEL EMBARRASSED being anywhere around you! you Know how to dress normal, so you don't stick out like a sore thumb, and you just do that for attention, which is the story of your entire life...always having to be the attention-getter, whether for being the one who:
--- was the IDEAL citizen
--- stayed and took care of mom when nobody did
--- didn't do drugs LIKE your brothers
--- can do NO WRONG
--- is the PERFECT neighbor
sorry, but this "golden child" mentality he has always had (but that didn't come out till after we had been married a while, of course), got OLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLD a LONG TIME AGO!
~Laura
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Ha Ha! It sounds like somebody might be PMSing! I can totally relate-my H looks ok but my girls call him the plaid guy. What drives me crazy about my H is this "stuck in the past" mentality he has. He ONLY listens to Journey and I have come to hate this group.
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OH WOW OVERCOMER, can We stay in touch? Yes, the "stuck in the past thing" is the same with my H. I feel so glad I'm not alone. Can we share more about H? Is yours and N as well? Are you deciding to stick it out over the longhaul or do you often contemplate LEAVING?
Please share with me. Maybe together we can do this thing called...cough cough blech! MARRIAGE
~Laura
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The Message says Unrelenting disappointment leaves you heartsick, But a queen good break can turn life around.
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But a Sudden good break can turn life around! When will I ever learn to proof read!
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L-yes I often think of leaving. He is just so stupid. He drones on and on about the same things over and over again. He drinks too much and does not get Christianity at all. He calls his faith Lutheranism and I tell him that is a denomination NOT a faith. When he gets me in his car I am held captive and he puts on Journey. I would like them if they were not shoved down my throat for six years. He procrastinates to a fault and it takes him FOREVER to do ANYTHING. I do almost everything.
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Dear Kelly and Laura,
I am sorry that you are hurting.
((((((((((Kelly,Laura)))))))))))))) Love Ami
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Ami,
You are so right, it is like a craving. One that you know is bad for you and if you succomb you will feel bad later, but you still want it. I know that it revolves around my father. He raised four kids on his own after my mother died and he never let us forget how wonderful he was for doing it. I realize it was a tough job, but I can't ever imagine reminding my children how lucky they are that I stayed to raise them and didn't give them away. I use to pray that he would let me go live with my aunt and uncle (who had no children, but a loving relationship)that could never happen though, because he wouldn't be able to look like the martry. I continue to find people that are not able to give love/emotion and then strive to win them. I am very much aware of this, just need to learn how to STOP!
I have never felt more alone in my life and I believe it's because I am finally admitting to my choices. I thought I had an abundance of friends, but come to realize when I quit doing for everyone they aren't around much. I am the perpetual codependent. I don't drink, smoke, or much else just thrive on being needed and picking the wrong people for this. I have never taken care of myself first......wouldn't know how.
Well, I've rattled on enough and it's just so depressing, but thanks for asking.
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Ami,
You are so right, it is like a craving. One that you know is bad for you and if you succomb you will feel bad later, but you still want it. I know that it revolves around my father. He raised four kids on his own after my mother died and he never let us forget how wonderful he was for doing it. I realize it was a tough job, but I can't ever imagine reminding my children how lucky they are that I stayed to raise them and didn't give them away. I use to pray that he would let me go live with my aunt and uncle (who had no children, but a loving relationship)that could never happen though, because he wouldn't be able to look like the martry. I continue to find people that are not able to give love/emotion and then strive to win them. I am very much aware of this, just need to learn how to STOP!
I have never felt more alone in my life and I believe it's because I am finally admitting to my choices. I thought I had an abundance of friends, but come to realize when I quit doing for everyone they aren't around much. I am the perpetual codependent. I don't drink, smoke, or much else just thrive on being needed and picking the wrong people for this. I have never taken care of myself first......wouldn't know how.
Well, I've rattled on enough and it's just so depressing, but thanks for asking.
Dear Alone,
You are NOT rattling on--not at all. You NEED to do this. You need to keep talking about it. I have only recently felt those type of deep feeings. It is horrible, really.
The only thing that helps is realizing that the "person" is not what you "really" want--it is that primal love. The person could give you a "fake" sense of it that would feel real,but at some point, you would be left alone with the feelings b/c they are inside you(me)---bleh.
Keep writing, Alone. Love Ami
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The feelings from N weren't real at all and that is what I am grappling with. I still have memories of the relationship "I had" not the real one. It started as a business relationship and he knew he could use me for his needs. He was able to see my vulnerablity and take advantage of it. I think I knew this early on,but chose to ignore it and hope he really liked me. Somewhere in the four year realtionship I (and also my friends) believe that he did come to like me, but not the way he portrayed. He constantly said we were just friends but then would do things to lead me to believe otherwise, such as call me his valentine and telling me I was his best friend and only one he was close to. His old girlfriend (who had married his best friend) told me that in the thirty years she had known him, I was the only real relationship he had/including herself.
We only had a sexual relationship three times, after which he told me he wasn't able to maintain relationships, only friendships and therefore we couldn't have a physical relationship. At the time I told him, that I had not had sex with my ex in over ten years and found it devestating that he would end it after three times, his only answer was "it's not you, it's me" Probably was, but you can understand my feelings of no worth. We continued to have a three and a half year "friendship" where we traveled together (me paying of course), went camping, on cruises, worked on his house, and just plain hung our almost every weekend. It was toatlly his control of how the relatinship went. He didn't want me, but didn't want me with anyone else either. When I didn't conform, he would withdraw and make me chase him back. Shame to admit that I did numerous times. He was at the end of a careeer that was quickly fading, it was physical and he was getting older. Where I had a very respectable position that he envied. He set out to destroy me and almost has......I don't think he is done yet. Just some of what is going on.
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uote author=alone48 link=topic=6508.msg105417#msg105417 date=1199035918]
The feelings from N weren't real at all and that is what I am grappling with. I still have memories of the relationship "I had" not the real one. It started as a business relationship and he knew he could use me for his needs. He was able to see my vulnerablity and take advantage of it. I think I knew this early on,but chose to ignore it and hope he really liked me. Somewhere in the four year realtionship I (and also my friends) believe that he did come to like me, but not the way he portrayed. He constantly said we were just friends but then would do things to lead me to believe otherwise, such as call me his valentine and telling me I was his best friend and only one he was close to. His old girlfriend (who had married his best friend) told me that in the thirty years she had known him, I was the only real relationship he had/including herself.
We only had a sexual relationship three times, after which he told me he wasn't able to maintain relationships, only friendships and therefore we couldn't have a physical relationship. At the time I told him, that I had not had sex with my ex in over ten years and found it devestating that he would end it after three times, his only answer was "it's not you, it's me" Probably was, but you can understand my feelings of no worth. We continued to have a three and a half year "friendship" where we traveled together (me paying of course), went camping, on cruises, worked on his house, and just plain hung our almost every weekend. It was toatlly his control of how the relatinship went. He didn't want me, but didn't want me with anyone else either. When I didn't conform, he would withdraw and make me chase him back. Shame to admit that I did numerous times. He was at the end of a careeer that was quickly fading, it was physical and he was getting older. Where I had a very respectable position that he envied. He set out to destroy me and almost has......I don't think he is done yet. Just some of what is going on.
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Dear Alone,
You know what hit me as I read your post. He MADE you want him and crave him and then he pulled away. He manipulated you in such a way that he could dangle you(probably sub--consciously).
Your needs for love pulled you in to the drama.You still crave the "love and connection" that he DID give you. It felt like the answer that you always wanted and it probably was,in a way,but he could not sustain it. . You are probably dreaming of resurrecting that SHORT period when he was what you wanted and needed(or appeared to be). Maybe,I am all wrong.I just had an intuitive feeling that you might be experiencing this. Love Ami
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no Ami, you are totally right. I realize this intellectually, but the craving is still there. My friends believe that he knew what he was doing from the begining and I just played into it. He lost out on an inheiritance from his father and believed that in my position I could help him. I did try and actaully was instumental in getting his half brother convicted of elder abuse, but the attorneys wanted too much money to pursue the estate from his half sister. I believe he had anger at me for letting him down (in his eyes) and maybe this was his retaliation. There was so much more and it became convoluted, but ultimately I believe he resented me and this was my payback. There still is one more issue hanging over my head and I'm not sure how he will handle it , but I should know by the end of the month. It has caused alot of stress and I only hope it is the end. He also resents that I didn't do things the way he wanted. Sometime around the first of the year, I started withdrawing and not giving as much......not good from his perspective.
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no Ami, you are totally right. I realize this intellectually, but the craving is still there. My friends believe that he knew what he was doing from the begining and I just played into it. He lost out on an inheiritance from his father and believed that in my position I could help him. I did try and actaully was instumental in getting his half brother convicted of elder abuse, but the attorneys wanted too much money to pursue the estate from his half sister. I believe he had anger at me for letting him down (in his eyes) and maybe this was his retaliation. There was so much more and it became convoluted, but ultimately I believe he resented me and this was my payback. There still is one more issue hanging over my head and I'm not sure how he will handle it , but I should know by the end of the month. It has caused alot of stress and I only hope it is the end. He also resents that I didn't do things the way he wanted. Sometime around the first of the year, I started withdrawing and not giving as much......not good from his perspective.
Dear Alone,
This is just an intuitive feeling,again,but I don't think that he pulled away b/c of anything you did or didn't do.It is easier for us to "blame" ourselves . I think that part of that is b/c IF it was our fault --and not s/thing inherent in him--we can still have a chance with him. Part of this type of thinking on our part is subconscious.Also, it is hard to see s/one whom you "loved' so much as inherently flawed. It is easier to think that our actions had the 'power" to turn the relationship "bad".
Alone, I think that the relationship was doomed from the start b/c he cannot love. He can "fake" love, but not "real" love, which takes a kind of emotional strength which he does not possess.
I am reluctant to write this b/c it sounds harsh and maybe I am wrong,also.
It just feels like it could help to set you free.
I think that it is hard for you(it would be for me ,too) to face the "finality" that he just can't "love"--no matter what you did or how you did it. Compost what does not fit, Alone. I hate to write such painful words. Forgive me for the pain that they will probably bring. .I am sorry for the pain you have suffered with him, Alone.
Love Ami
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Ami, again I agree that he didn't have the ability to love. Someone is not alone for over twenty years because they are a giving and loving person. I hope no one that is alone takes that wrong, but he did not have any substantial relationships in that time AT ALL. He seemed to think he was too good for any of the people he met, I believe they stood up to him and therefore he banished them. I was more complacent and in the begining he enjoyed having control over someone he felt was accomplished. That must have worn thin when he realized my love for him caused me to be just like all the rest and I was no longer a challenge.
I use to say that my ex (not N) loved me as much as he was capable and I believe that of N also......sad to say I accepted it as enough. You're not harsh, just factual. Really I'm a pretty strong person except for N. I don't get offended easily, especially if it's the truth.
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The Message says Unrelenting disappointment leaves you heartsick, But a
queen good break can turn life around.
Who IS this Queen Good Break and how do I meet her? (smiles)
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You are so wise Laura!
Its humbling discovering how much of my own behavior has been motivated by wanting to elevate my status in my mother's eyes, and be one of the `Golden' children. I don't think I acknowledged it consciously for many years. But looking back, that is what I was always trying to do!! I'd feel best about myself when I was close to meeting her expectations, and worse when I didn't. Personally, i think her expectations of me are too high and also contradictory. I stopped thinking could be perfect for her long ago, but it took much longer to feel ok about that.
Great Topic, Thanks for starting it!
X bella
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Bella,
No matter how hard you try, the expectations keep rising. As was said in another post, it's never good enough......but we keep trying don't we.
Even when you realize you'll not meet the goals it's hard to give up. Maybe just this time if I do this or ignore this.....never works. I know it and still don't know how to quit trying. I think most of us here know exactly what I'm talking about and struggle with the same problem.
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You are so wise Laura!
Its humbling discovering how much of my own behavior has been motivated by wanting to elevate my status in my mother's eyes, and be one of the `Golden' children. I don't think I acknowledged it consciously for many years. But looking back, that is what I was always trying to do!! I'd feel best about myself when I was close to meeting her expectations, and worse when I didn't. Personally, i think her expectations of me are too high and also contradictory. I stopped thinking could be perfect for her long ago, but it took much longer to feel ok about that.
Great Topic, Thanks for starting it!
X bella
Dear Bella,
Boy, what a bondage. I spent my entire life trying to get my M to approve of me.. The worst thing that I lost was my mind. Now, I am trying to get it back -----not THAT easy(LOL) Love Ami