Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on December 25, 2007, 09:53:57 AM
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This was written at 4 am. But guess I need to start a new thread. Am I distorting? Am I right? Am I jealouse? A little of all? Is she too egocentristic and possessive isolating the boy constantly? If they get married, she os going to want to stay home al he time. That is a recipy for failure for a people's person.
My mom and my sil are horrible enemies. I am terrified that it couls happen to me. She anatagonizes with me. She does not humor me, not even that it is Chrsitmas and we are supposed to be together. She just absorbes my son totally, isolating him from the other people. That is no good.
She does not talk. She only answers yes or no or a movement of lips or head, she never talks, it is exasperating. I do not know if her mother has her mute because she is not NPD but very very N, interrupts conversatioons, attracts attention, never listens, ask questions and turns to somebody else, she is selfish, I am very worried.
My son is going to pay very serious consequenses if he married thie girl. Just yesterday he was telling me in our way to that house, about how much he loves her and that he would like to spend the rest of his life with her. I think GFM washed his brain. Or he is infatuated because she has a nice body, or maybe sex. Who knows.
HI, am home, my son is sleeping. I cant. Just one thing bothered me. I wanted to have group activity with the girfrield and son and the rest but the GF kept taking my son to an isolated room, away from the group. It was Christmas, they just spent one week away in a foreign country, they have a lot of time alone, this noght was to spend together, and he kept coming to the group adn inteact woth everybody and she kept taking him away. I came to them and told them why were they isolated. He told her to come sit with all of us, she did, and a few minutes later there she was taking him away. Everybody was dancing, I asked my son to dance with me, since we take dance lessons together, she held him, and then he said "I came to be with my girlfriend". She won. Or I felt she won. I have lost my son in the hands of a possessive woman. My son is a poeple person. How is he going to survivie in an isolated world? He is only 22. Ready for a master degree. She wants to get married. She will ruin my son. He will never be able to do a master degree with a wife if they get married. I want my son to be happy. But he odes not relizes that he will get bored soon with a possessive person. I was upset all night. There were other girlfirend and boyfriend in the family but they were sticking to the group. There even was a russian boyfriend to one of the cousins. He did not speak Spanish nor was American and he was sticking to the group. Knowing my son, how sociable he is and talkative he is, was isolated, he does not know that he will miss that in the future and if they get married prematurely and she gets pregnant, his life will be ruined.
I wish I did not have reasons to worry. I guess I have to leave everyting in God's hands becuase there is nothing I can do. I told my son in the way home that he should be with the group in a Christmas party and he replied that I never like anybody that I always complained after how nice they are to me. GFM tried to attract my attention several times, but when she finally got my atnetion she suddenly left and there I was alone trying to invent another conversation with somebody else, she did it three times.
My son says that there is no woman perfect and that hse is a good woman and faithful, and she pleases him a lot. She just want his attention exclusively all the time. He will get tired of that with time, I know that.
GFM got everybody to the table and then disappeared, the she dragged everybody to dance and ten disappeared, like she wants to control everybody. She does so many things just like my mother.
I never get Christmas presents, but GFM got me Christmas presents, still, I was wishing that my mother and GF were at the table with all of us having conversations with the group.
Do you have a reality check? Am I thinking worng?
She does not read, she loves shopping, she does not work, her mother provides everything ofr her, I work three jobs, my son works several jobs too, he reads a lot, he is very intellectual, she is not. GFM does not work either, her husband left her a house all paid, a pension, how can my son relate to a person who has no idea what insight is, what listening is, what phylosophy is, what sacrifice is, what delay gratification is, what effort is, what a trigger is, what abuse is.
I do not know if I am owried about me or about my son or both. I do not want to be selfish. I want my son to be happy. Is he right that nobody is going to make me happy about girlfriends for him? Am I being unfair? I dont want my son to get mad at me. I love him with all my heart. She seems to love him too. But of she loves hi just as a tool to satisfy her needs my son is going to be very unhappy in the long run. Short time is OK.
I need to pray about this.
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At the end, my son is going to do whatever he wants and pay the consequences of his decisions. There is nothing I can do to protect him. He already told me that I am never happy with anybody he chooses. Hi is 22, has had only two girlfriends. This is just the second girlfriend in his life. How can he say that I am never satisfied.
I just do not want my son to work like a beast to pay manicure and pedicure for a lazy woman to watch soup operas adn have children, too much time in their hands, going to the internet and having cybersex because boredom. I wish a hardworker, side by side, 50-50 relationship where shoulder by shoulder work and have a career, meditates, has insight, Oh God. I am powerless. My son has no idea of the potential damage.
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Dear Lupita,
Two of my children are grown and living on their own. I have had to just repeatedly tell myself that it is not my business what they do, lest I offer them my unsolicited advice and drive them away. They know that I will always speak my mind, so they don't ask unless they truly want to know. In my opinion, my role as a parent is to give them my blessing whether I approve of their decisions or not... as long as what they're doing is not immoral or illegal, of course. But yes, basically, "It is NONE of my business" is what I say to myself over and over when I get the notion to critique their lives. Also I am so very glad and relieved always to remember that God loves them even more than I do and so they are in the very best Hands.
Love to you,
Carolyn
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I just do not want my son to work like a beast to pay manicure and pedicure for a lazy woman to watch soup operas adn have children, too much time in their hands, going to the internet and having cybersex because boredom.
What??????????
Lupita. I'm concerned.
How do you get all this out of one evening?
There are a thousand explanations for why they kept going in the other room, Lupe. And probably most of them have to do with them. They are young and in love. Maybe she couldnt keep her hands off of him. It happens. 8)
I know from your past posts that you have a good relationship with your son. Good communication, good empathy. If he is resisting your opinion now, what can you do? If he is saying that you don't like anyone he dates, I think you should ask him questions about that statement--don't argue with him.
You are setting the stage right now, Lupe, for the relationship you will have with this girl for years. She may be your daughter in law, in spite of your worst fears. How you respond to her immaturity now will have everything to do with your future relationshp with her. Accept her where she is, so your son will have no reason to write off your opinion when you offer it. If he remains convinced that you don't like anyone he likes, you will have absolutely no voice in his decision.
That's my reality check. We'll see if you get some better advice this morning.
Love
CB
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Not one night. Three months. I have posted about it in the past. Observer was helping with GFM. Yesterday I just had the opportunity to confirm several things.
We have been shopping several times. I buy nothing and GFM and GF buy several things. Not one night. We have been together several times. My son spend one week In my mother's house last week with GF.
Observer said that this was the opportunity to prove my skills. I beaved well. I did not stop smiling. I did not do anything to ashame my son. But I was upset almost all night. They ahev time alone. Why did she had to keep him away on Christmas eve? Familty time? She has no insight. No feelings for others she is spolied. They see each other several times aweek. She stays at my son's apartment several nights a wee. They have time on thier own. Why Christams eve? I have not seen my son alone in a long time. Today is the first day I have my son in my house all for my seld. We are going to visit cuban friends. She wants to go too. She wants to ruin today too.
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OK CB, I do not mind you refuting my ideas. You can be the advocate of the dible. If you find my thnkng error I will be grateful. I wish I can educate this girl. Maybe that is not my Job as Certain Hope says. But I want to have friendship with her, but I do not want her to do certain things with me, that would be one of my bounaries, like I want if we are in a group that they would include me in the group and not just separate. Like everybody else did.
Come on CB, discuss with me.
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Now we have New Year. I want to be with my son. What a pain in the a*s!!!!!!!
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Lupita! Oh, dear. Well.. you have not invited me to discuss this with you, so I feel that I'd best ask you whether I may... and if not, that's perfectly okay. For now, I'll just tell you that as I put myself into your shoes and consider how I may feel about my own son at that age, I know that I'd absolutely have to make up my mind NOT to take that perspective. That may not be easy, but there is no other option if I don't want to be miserable and make others around me miserable, too.
Love to you,
Carolyn
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Dear Lupita,
IMO, your thinking is not "right" in this. I am trying to get a handle on it. You are seeing life through a lens that is your own--not your son's, his g/f, her M etc.
You have the fear of her "sponging" off your son. Perhaps ,she is like this. Perhaps,not. Are you sure she is that type of a person? Are your own fears for your son distorting this girl,in your mind?
How much of what you see in her is just "youth" rather than "deception"
When they want to be alone, is it an actual "insult" to you or just "young love".? I would not feel that way about my sons. I don't feel that way about my S's and girls. I trust them ,but they have always proved trustworthy and 'smart" about relationships.
IF they were to have a g/f that I didn't like, I would not act badly to her. I have made so many mistakes in my own life . Even my own M told me to "run" from my H, but I would not listen.
I can only give my son's my opinion. That is it. It is very hard to see your son going down,if he is. I can appreciate your pain in that. However,it is not about "you", anymore, but about "him"
I have been a DIL and a mother to son's who are dating. I bet that your S's g/f can feel your dissaproval. Maybe, she is going in to the other room to simply "regroup.". It really hurts to feel that a b/f' 's M does not like you. I am sure that she looks up to you,as s/one who has good sense. I bet that she hurts ,inside, when she picks up your feelings toward her.
Just some thoughts---compost what does not fit. Ami
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My son told me that I was his hero. I raised him by my self, no child support, no help, just him and me. Now my life has no purpose. He said that with out me he has nothing. But he cuts me off his life in a way. I just have to stay away and see how he ruins his life with out saying anything. I do not like lazy women. Women who are acostume to get her needs satisfied by a husband who pays the bills, and takes them out, and come tired from work to help in house work while the woman stays at home talks to friends on the phone, go to the internet to have affairs and spend credit cards in the mall.
I do not care about house cleaning and cooking, anybody can clean abd cook, not everybody can make money and pay bills. Lazy women do not.
I am extremely sad, depressed, GFM is an N. My son is being sucked in, in a world of lazy women. GFM has a beautiful house that she did not pay, credit cards that she does not have to pay. Sleeps late, does not exercise, the other daughter is 300lb.
I work three jobs, never remarried in honor of my son, keep working very hard, go to the gym, OMG, I am so tired. That young lady is very self centered. I go to conseinment stores. I told her and she said that she would never put on something used. I want to vomit.
We went to restaurant and GFM was talking to the waitress in a very boosy manner. I said to be nicer of we would get saliva on our food. She wanted to pay the bill, i cannot let her. I cannot reciprocate. I cannot spend 50 dollars in one hour sitting. I only can spend no more than 10 dollars only once a week in a restaurant. Now she wants to decide where we will eat for new year, what to do and where to go. I refuse.
Sometimes I think my life has no purpose. So much sacrifice for nothing.
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Certain Hope, I do not have to invite you. You can discuss with me. If you can convence me, I mean show me the evidence, like observer did, show me my thinking error, I mean, something that shows not criticizm, but like scientific method, observation. hypothesis, etc. No Bible.
The bible says honor your parents, but sometimes parents are very abusive, and you cannot honor them, etc. no bible.
If you show me my distortion I will be grateful. Cognitively.
Ami, I do not think my son is going down, he is just falling in the trap of a bad style of living, where the man ends up paying the bills for too many people, working like a beast. I have seen it. My borther is like this. I have an uncle like that too.
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I believe that everybody can throw clothe in the washer maschine, you do not need to feed, clothe, and roof, and pamper, and give credit cards, to a woman just to push the start in a washer or dryer. That was a job when there was no technology. Now, there is no need for that. There is more need for two salaries, so they can have a better living.
I work three jobs and I wash and clean and cook.
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Hi, Lupita,
I don't think that I can convince you of anything, really.
Especially since I've been a homemaker/housewife for a good portion of my married life, I don't agree with your view of those who stay home to care for their homes and families. Raising four children and caring for every aspect of our home and personal business is the most difficult job I've ever had.
Most definitely I disagree with your statement that "anybody can clean and cook".
Honestly, Lupita, you sound like you very much resent the fact that you had to work so hard to earn a living and support yourself and your son...
and although I surely can understand your feelings about that, I can also see that you appear to have developed strong prejudices toward women who have chosen the role which I myself chose for many years. We're not all lazy bums, Lupita.
So there is your cognitive error, imo...
you are clearly generalizing and stereotyping and thinking with extreme prejudice toward an entire segment of society whose life choices you have not shared. If that cognitive error is based on bitter resentment and/or envy, then all of the thoughts proceeding from that corrupted foundation will be tainted.
Said with love to you, dear Lupita... that is my true view.
Carolyn
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I am scared that my son is going to end paying child support to a woman who has another boyfriend. Like amny women who post here. I have read several threads of women who sue husbands for money, and they already have affairs, and do not work, and complain about husbands, but they do not want to go outside and cooperate with budget, make a salay, have a job.
I am mad, depressed, sad, scared, losing the person which was the light of my life.
I have seen my borther saying, "I have nothing to talk about with her"
My ex husband did not like the beach. The sand itches him, the sun burns him, the salt dries his skin, etc. I love the beach. Melancoly attacked me when I could not go to the beach for years, because of him.
My son is very profound, very intellectual, reads a lot. This woman does not read at all, just watches soup operas. Oh, of course, shopping, with credit cards that she does not have to pay.
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Lupita,
I do understand your feelings and don't wish to negate them...
I do not desire such an empty, loveless life for my only son, either.
Please know that I am not angry with you because our perspectives differ.
I have also been forced to work and support my children alone, and so I've experienced both sides of that coin.
I hope that you're not angry with me... and I thank you for allowing me to express my views openly. In the past, I would have remained silent rather than risk a difference of opinion. In fact, I've heard you many times express this view of lazy women and not addressed it.... so I'm thankful for this opportunity and for the growth I've experienced in being able to respond without anger or avoidance.
With love,
Carolyn
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Dear CH, I disagree, but will not discuss with you. I do not want to convence you either. God bless you and thank you so much for your opinion. Plus my opinion has nothing to do with you, so please, do not take it personally. It is just my opinion. Forgive me please if my way of thinking bothers you. I hope that we can respectfully disagree. God bless you.
I general, this is a time of stress for economy. Families cannot make it with one salary. It is healthier to have two salaries. It is healthier that both cooperate and contribute to the income. Unless of course that one of them makes a wonderful salary. But not for low middle class like me or others like me. With one check I pay rent with the other, food and car and utilities. if I had to feed another adult, i would suicide. I am talking about low middle class who need to make two salaries for the best interest of the children, not having one comfortably at home while they have to sacrifice so much, but just if they could double the income by two people working they can be doing better.
In my case, if I had somebody to share expenses it would be very relaxing and better. I would want that my son has that. If not possible, there is nothing I can do, just cook my self in my own sauce.
At the end, he is the one who is going to pay the bills, OMG, and the one who will say in ten years, I have nothing to talk about with her.
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CH, thank you for your response. Thank you for not getting ungry with me because of the way I feel. Thank you so much. I respect your point and I love friends that do not hate me for the way I feel.
Thank you again for your freindly response and God bless you.
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aww (((((((((((Lupita))))))))))) thank you!! You have really made me smile big :D
Because you are willing to express these thoughts and feelings with no holds barred, I have been able to feel them through for myself, you know - to the other side - where they no longer hold so much power over me. You've taught me alot, Lupita, and I am very grateful to you. God bless you, too!
Carolyn
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In my situation I cannot feed clothe and roof another adult. Impossible. If somebody wants to live with me, has to cooperate 50-50 with the expenses. The same way, I do not desire that any man has to suffer the opposite way.
I still believe that it is healthy for any woman to go out and have a job, make money and contribute to the house economy to be a team. I still believe that it is bad for a woman to have too much time in her hands to be in the internet at all hours of the day or using credit cards that somebody else has to pay.
I would hate that my son comes tired from all day outside home and the woman starts nagging, I am bored, I need to go out, take me out, take me to a restaurant, etc.
I come very tired from the high school, with papers to grade, worries, nasty coworkers, and if I had somebody to nag me with "take me out" I would slap him or her.
My paycheck is barely making it just to pay rent and utilities, modest supermarket, consinment stores. Can you imagine if I had an adult to live with me and who chooses to stay home, and I have to pay health insurance for him her, when I cannot even go to the dentist because i cannot afford to go to the dentist?
I do not deisre that situation for a man either. I do not desire that situation for my son either.
Sometimes I go to the gym if I had the energy, or to dance lessons. I would be very sad if somebody asked me, do not go, stay here with me and entertain me.
Anyway, this is just my personal experience, my feelings. Just the way I feel.
Do not get mad at me for the way I feel. I am a product of my experiences, and there is some truth on what I say.
Like they say, dont hate me for being pretty, dont hate me for the way I feel.
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In my situation I cannot feed clothe and roof another adult. Impossible. If somebody wants to live with me, has to cooperate 50-50 with the expenses. The same way, I do not desire that any man has to suffer the opposite way.
Dear Lupita,
When I remarried immediately after NPD-ex, I took the same approach with my new husband.
He is a product of his experiences, too, and had alot of the tendancies which you've described in the lazy wife.
Basically, he'd never had much responsibility or motivation... and he's grown alot in the three years we've been married.
He's grown because he had no other option.... that is reality.
On the other hand, I have always been the "responsible one". I did it out of fear... worked my fanny off... always consumed
with trying to do "the right thing". Even when I was not providing a share of
income into my family's budget, I know that my contribution was at least
as valuable as any paycheck. That is a confidence I have within myself because I know that I work so hard at whatever I do.
And... I know that a person can make a good income and simply fritter it away out of poor management and unwillingness to curb his appetites.
Poor impulse control... now there's a character flaw!
Anyhow, I just think that alot of people are irresponsible when they're young. It's a willingness to grow and mature which makes all the difference...
a teachable spirit. I am so thankful (and relieved!!) that my husband has that,
along with a strong desire to make the relationship work and not enjoy a free ride.
All of the things that you've written here... I will share with my son, from my heart.
Well, he's only 12 years old now, but he knows... he knows my heart.
I bet that your son does, too.
There is no talking sense to a lovestruck heart, so the time to convey all this info is beforehand...
and I'm sure that you have done that.
He will not forget all that he's learned from you, dear Lupita.
Love,
Carolyn
P.S. Also I agree with what you said about it not being healthy to have too much time on their hands.... for anyone ! Personally, I was feeling the downward pull of that as my energy was being drained out... spending too much time online, etc... and so I went back to work and that was a very good, positive choice for me. But every one of us is on a different schedule, with various contributing factors... and I have to be sure not to make it my mission to pull anyone else alongside my view if they're not ready.
And Lupita... I just thought... best we can do for our sons is to assure them that they do NOT get their value from how much money they make or how many material things they can provide their wives/families! Love to you.
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I understand what you say. If the salary of one is anough, well, there is no case.
I am talking about people like me who barely make it every paycheck. Cannot have another person to feed and support.
I Imagine that Donald Trump GF does not have any need to work. My BF if someday I get one, will have to work and contribute, I cannot feed another adult. Simply cant.
I hope that my son marries a woman who works and contributes to the economy, bringing money to the house is very difficult. Organize that money that other people makes is easier, at least for me. I am good to manage. It is hard to make money. To deal with strangers, eight hours a day, nasty coworkers, students disrespect. It is hard, to go to interviews, to wait for a call from the interviewer, how many times I have read posts from people who are praying for a job, for a call from a job, that is hard. I hope that my son does not have to deal with that alone, because when you know that you are responsible for half it is much much easier than when you know that your only income is all your family has, and your dependants are just waiting for only what you make, you know that all the responsibility is on you. It is hard. I wish that my son does not have to suffer that.
I rest my case.
I do not want to do lastworditis.
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lol... Lupita... I wasn't feeling like anybody was trying to get the last word. Mostly, I'm glad that you posted again because I've enjoyed discussing this with you and I hope it's helped you to express these things. Anyhow, I do understand what you've said and, for the most part, I'm in agreement with you. No arguments here!
Love to you,
Carolyn
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Lupita, even if you are seeing real stuff in your son's GF--you still can't know how that is going to play out in his life. But you truly believe that you can--and you are making yourself miserable. What is making you think that you can read the future all the way to her cyber affairs in the future? Can you name the emotion that is fueling that? Is it abandonment? Many times in your posts, you comment that this girl treats you as your mother did. If you believe that, are you reacting to her as HERSELF? Or as someone else?
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where did you get so much wisdom? That is the kind of evidence I am looking for. My distortion is MIND READING AND FORTUNE TELLING. Also BLACK AND WHITE AND ALL OR NOTHING with no shades and grays. CB you are wonderful.
Let's imagine the worst possible scenario: everything you see in this girl is true and everything that you think she is going to do actually happens. If your son can't see that from this vantage point, he is already in deep voodoo. He can't keep running his GF choices past his mommy to see what she thinks. For right or wrong, better or worse, to be a grownup he has to make his own choices. So if he chooses a woman who is obviously an N--you can't stop it, because if you stop this one he will go find another one.
In cognitive therapy you say THE COST OF BENEFIT. What good does it make to me to think this way? It will not help my son and much less my self.
Don't do that, Lupe. Don't miss out on so much joy. Your son will pick who he picks. And he should. Throw yourself into welcoming whomever he picks, with all your heart. If they are going to hit the wall, let them do it on their own account, not because of you.
Ouch, OUCH, OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Although I acknowledge that you are right, you just made me so so sad. I will do better on New Year. I will tell you about it.
You are right. There is nothing I can do. Just pray and help when needed. I am so sad. Why do they have to grow up?
Empty nest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am so sad.---------------------> Emptiness.
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The feeling CB, is terror. Fear that she will put my son against me, like my SIL and my mother. That I will have zero influence on my son. That my son is going to be taken advantage.
The feelings about my mother is with GFM, not GF. GFM controls the GF totally. GFM is the one that is controlling everything.
OK, again, all or nothing, mind reading and fortune telling.
GFM cannot control everything, she is a huge manipulator, but I have to give credit to my son. That my son is not an idiot. I have to give credit to the job i did with him too. My son is not stupid. He is just pleasing the GFM for convenience and because she is nice to him. She wants her daughter to get married, like her other daughter and like her herself. She considered her husband like a father. I do not want my son to become a father to his wife, patronizing, but equal partner. GFM wants somebody to take care fo her daughter instead of telling the daughter that she can finish college and be independent.
My bad feelings are towards GFM, like she can transplant thoughts from her brain to her daughter barin and my son. Like she can brain wahs my son.
For example, she tells my son, "I trust you, and I know that you are going to take care of My daughter"
Then my son comes and tells me, I have to take care of my GF. She is not his daughter. And many like that.
I wish my son a healthy relationship, no a woman that thinks she is a little child and uncle daddy hasband has to please her.
I want my son to be able to rely in a woman as equal partner.
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I dont want my son to suffer. I dont want him far from me. (emotionally)
Distance geographically, does not matter, convenient yes but not indispensable.
OK, honestly, the fear to lose my son.
The thinking error is "I always lose, and there it comes again"
All or nothing. I do not always lose. I feel like I always lose.
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Lupita,
Everyone has been so wise and kind.
I don't know if this is a helpful addition, but I would say: ask yourself to think about how your mother constantly told you the worst possible things she could think of about you, how she expressed doubts about everything about you--your character, your loyalty, your accomplishments, your motives, and your good intentions. She nagged and pressured and worried you DAILY with negative interpretations of every single thing about you she could think of, and she laid huge piles of guilt on you all the time for not making her the most important thing in your life. Ask yourself how this made you feel.
If the answer guides you--treat both your son and his GF the opposite way. You will have a grateful son and possibly a daughter. Regardless of what happens in their relationship, if you are loving and positive and approving of both of them as individuals, not as a couple, that is what you will create in your own life as a result:
More love and more positivity, more approval.
(It helps to not get involved at ALL in their marital relationship or problems. Of course they will have some. But it's amazing what you can contribute by simply loving each of them as people, not as generalities.) I have had to repeatedly remind myself to see my D as a young woman, stepping forward in life, not just as "my daughter". I think that possessiveness, forgetting to let her go emotionally, is part of why it was so hard for us to make a transition to her new stage in life. We're making it now, but it was unecessarily hard.
So he's a wonderful young man. You can be glad about what you gave him, and now just respect what he's choosing to give himself. You have no control any more. You just have opportunity -- to love and support him, and whoever he chooses to love.
(If you have to fake it, that's okay. Eventually you'll believe yourself, and it will get easier to accept her.)
Sounds inane, I know. I'm sorry it sounds so simpleminded. But I believe that's how it works. I can't know if any of this be true for you, so please ignore anything that's not helpful.
love,
Hops
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Are you Hopalong?
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I guess it is clicking in my brain. Today, my son brought a friend to my apartment, they needed my computer to watch a DVD from the library, they sat at my living room for three hours, then I made food ofr them. I felt like mother again. I felt I had a place in the world. When things like that happen, I feel not so bad. I was thinking that I need to talk to my son and tell him to not forget me so much so I do not feel abandoned. I do not know if that is going to help. He has to know that I feel much better when he gives me some time so I feel a mother. He did not do anything special. Just bring his little a*s over to my house and fill in the empty space. It does not have to be all the time, just often enough. It had been a year since he brought a friend to my apartment. I love when he has fun in my house. I don’t know.
Maybe that GF would go to the Jacuzzi with me, and enjoy the hot water. Maybe they can play tennis with me. I wanted to go ice skating the other night. She said no. I wanted to go on roller coasters another time and she said no.
I guess, it does not matter. She does not have to play with me. I thought that she had to earn my love since I gave birth to my son and raiced him all by my self. I feel so ridiculous. That is not going to happen.
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In my country, you have to honor your moter in low or the boyfrind will not like you. You can fight later, but never as a girlfriend. Here, the mother in low means nothing. You show your mother in low your power and if she does not discipline you can punihs her not letting her see her son.
That is another problem, the cultural issue. I was expecting to be treated in a different way.
I did not leave my house until I married at 27. My sister also, at 35. My brother at 25. My cousin is 25 and is with his mother. In my country you do not leave your family unless you get married.
My son left my house at 17 when he went to the dormitories at the university. He never came back. That was a killer.
When you adopt a different culture you get things that you love and things that you do not love so much.
So, I just identified one of the problems.
I totally forgot about that.
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Yup, that was me (Hops guest), Lup...sometimes I log in for just one hour at work.
You are thinking SMART and you summed up the cultural difference exactly. MILs overall have no accepted power in the family here. The moment a young person takes a spouse or mate their loyalty is supposed to be to the mate. That really is different.
Good that you remember it now.
Another piece, painful for you when you're lonely, is what my D has told me when I forgot: Mom, you are not my friend. I don't want you to be my friend. You are my mother.
So you can only be a mother figure in some way, or at best an older adult friend. Never a "play"mate. Children here don't play with their mothers.
It's a whole lot of tongue-biting. But I bet it will be worth it in the end.
Maybe instead of telling your son he needs to come over more often so you will feel happy, you could just use "I" messages:
I enjoyed it so much when you brought your friend over. I love making food for you! I hope you'll come again soon.
(See? You're telling the absolute truth but there's no criticism of him, and no guilt trip (keeping score of the frequency). That makes you warm and appealing, which makes it more likely he'll come over more. It's just expressing the truth from I-statements, and positive and "attracting" statements, instead of pressure and guilt, which do the oposite.)
love
Hops
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I agree with you 85%. I believe that you can make your children used to something you do. I played with my son all his life. We went to the beach together, made sand castles, painted a fence together, played transformers on the floor, watch cartoons, went to the movies, I nejoyed my son company all his life. I never said here are your toys, play. I said here are your toys let us play. It is now when suddenly he does not want to play with me anymore. We play duets at church, we play four hands, tow pianos, i tought him how to play the piano.
I know, he has to be independent, but you can still enjoy sharing activities with somebody you love. Like fathers who go hunting with thier sons. I played tennis with my son. He does not want to play with me anymore. We went to the swimin pool. He odes not want to do it anymore.
I know he has to grow, that does not mean he will cut me off his life. That is why I felt so happy today when he rought a friend to my apartment and spent three hours here watching a movie. I felt a mother again. I felt I had a son. His friend was very nice. He made conversation with me. He did not ignore me like GF.
In fact, just after this visit, i feel comfortable. He left and told me he was going to see GF. I did not feel bad. I just had my fair share of attention.
You are right in that I can tell him the "I" thing. I dont want him to feel bad or guilty. I will tell him how much I enjoyed his visit today.
I remember when he had five or six friends and I cooked for everybody, and they palyed nintendo until after midnight, and I had to threaten them for them to go to sleep.
I remember when I got as many as could fit in my car and went to the movies, came back home, cook, then pick them up and then feed them.
I rememebr when we went to Barnes and Noble just to read books and have a capuccino.
We went to the beach with several books, and read in front of the ocean.
I miss him.
I cannot imagine him going to the beach with GF with books. He will try to read something and she will tickle him, and never let him read a paragraph. She wants constant attention. I believe that he will not survive that and other things. he just does not know.
But, as you said, i have to show sympathy. Fake it till you make it. Just for my son. So he does not go away.
Now i have to spend New year with the same people if I want to be close to my son. What a pain!!
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Dear Lupita,
I was close to my two sons in the same way that you were I was really surprised at myself ,but I did not mind when they had g/f's. I "thought" that I would . However, for some reason. I don't "need" them to be there for me.I love spending time with them,but I don't "need" it. I sound so healthy that it surprises me(lol)
With my children, I had the healthy part of me parent them.The "crazy" part ,from my M,I pushed to the side, in my role as parent. I paid homage to the "gods'(evil) by throwing them my body and a large part of my mind, but when it came to my kids, my mind was off limits. I think that my healthy way of parenting stayed until ,now. I am happy when they have g/f's. My younger son had a g/f in college .He had one of those deep heart /mind connections.They broke up and he doesn't want to just 'date' or have a g/f unless it is a "soul" connection. I was not jealous of this connection or of my other son's present g/f.
I think that I am having a life now that I am starting to "possess". I am finding my voice and I have hope. Lupita,I think that your own emptiness is what is making you want to hold on too tightly to your son. Compost in the "usual manner"(lol) what does not fit. Ami
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I miss him.
I know, (((((Lupita)))). I understand.
It's hard, when they really really leave.
It means we have to face that this chapter is over.
Active mothering. We'll always be the mother who raised them.
But we have to know when to stop.
I had a rough time figuring it out, but I'm getting it now.
It was a very hard transition, especially when I was so lonely
and my child seemed like the only source of love in my life.
It put too much pressure on her. I had to make myself responsible
for my own happiness. Finding my own friends, new passions for my life.
It will get better. His GF is just one example of his separateness.
Even if he makes a mistake, it's important to let him make them.
Let him own them. That's the only way he'll learn.
love
Hops
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Ami, I am reluctant to think that your recent invigorating voice is genuine. Remember that you just had an affair and according to your own words those are pain killers. Remember that love affairs produce an enormous amount of endorphines to be liberated from the brain to produce a false sensation of wellness similar to cocaine etc. You know that. Please, do not get offended, I am just expressing my thoughts, if that makes you feel bad I will erase it. These thoughts come from many books that I have studied, not from judging you. So, please do not think I am judging you because I am not. Promise you. I am not stating anything as wrong or right or good or bad, nothing, just a scientific deduction from what I have learned.
Hopalong, you are making me so sad. At least your D is 30 yo. Mine is only 22 and left at 17. Hopalong, I know you are right, I know that CB is right. It is just too hard to digest. It is going to take a long long long time for me to be able to accept that my son is just trying to be independent and I have to encourage that. Ouch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wish we could get together and share pictures of our babies and cry and drink and ask God why do they have to grow up.
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Lup, I'd love to hear how adorable he was.
I bet he was a beautiful, wonderful fabulous baby!.
Handsome...big brown eyes, sikly hair, great laugh.
And musical, what a joy to watch him learn the piano.
My little (!) girl was incredible to me. A daily wonder.
I have a photo I love, if I knew how to scan something
I'd post it...she's about 2 and a half, all full of herself,
a big gummy squinty grin because of the sunlight,
and a huge sunflower beside her is bending over toward her
as though it's a big kind animal, and there's a fat drunk
bumblebee in the center of it, content and unthreatening.
and cry and drink and ask God why do they have to grow up
Be glad to join you, this round's on me.
Except I'd be asking the question: Why do I have to grow up? :?
love
Hops
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yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He has green eyes. He had blue eyes at birth and they were turning green with time. When he wears green shirts, it reflects a sea green on his eyes that I contemplate breathless. His smile is the most inoscent and sincere you can find in the world. He is a mixture of latin-irish. Can you imagine how passionate he is?
And your baby? what color of eyes she has? Hair? smile?
I made a poem to my son. because he plays music. I called the Poem "Little Bird"
of course it is in Spanish.
But more or less it says:
Dear little bird, never stop singing because your song gives me energy to keep going upwards up the hill against so many obstacles.
Dear little bird, never stop singing becuase your sound helps me breath and gives me inspiration for my daily wlak.
Dear little bird, never stop singing because your music gives support to my legs that sometimes refuse to sustain me.
And on and on many verses that in Spanish make a very nice rhyme.
I am crying right now, believe it or not. You have no idea how much my son and I have had to endure in this life, and he alwasy was positive and i was a negative bitch. He survived despite me not thanks to me. he is a wonderful person.
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I was crying when he was taking a nap in my house. Now he is gone and he told me that he wants to spend the night at GFM when I repeatedly told her that I wanted to sleep at my house. She trespassed my boundaries and convenced and invited and lured my son in to doing it.
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But she doesn't control him EITHER, Lup.
He made the choice.
When we demonize the other women in our sons' lives, we set up years of conflict.
She can try to control him, but he is an adult. He is completely responsible for his own choices.
So, if she nagged him to spend the night against your wishes, well, HE still chose to go. See?
Don't make him an angel and her a demon. It won't help.
(I am positive he WAS an angel when he was little...but now he's just another adult. Bless him.
And if he becomes a tugrope between two competing women, the one certainty is that he'll be miserable.)
Let him gooooooooooo....
(I just called my D's cell phone, and she's on Interstate 85 in the rain, following her friend who's driving the UHaul, destination 18 hours away...) :?
My D's hair was white-blonde when she was tiny (once she finally got some, she was bald for ages) and now it's long, thick chestnut brown. She's got a dimple, hazel eyes, a wonderful smile, and tattoos. Dragon, eagle, animal paws, and a religious symbol. Oy. And a couple of other things. Oy OY.
love,
Hops
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Thank you Hop. there is so much redundance here. I will try. Easy to say, difficult to do. I am trying, believe me. I wm trying.
I just wrote him an e mail. I told him I am not going to bother him today or tomorrow. Or Sunday morning. I will only call after church on Sunday. I will comply.
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You're trying SUPER hard.
lots of credit to you!
Hops