Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Lupita on December 29, 2007, 08:14:02 AM
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Don’t know if because of all the gentle pressure I received yesterday from dear friends, I feel more cooperative today. Also, I want to save my own a*s, and keep my son around.
I will go to New Year’s party, will not try to dance with my son, will not get mad when she takes him to an isolated room, that is what she does all the time, these are not our first parties together, will stay out of their relationship.
Now, see the difference of what I am saying now, which almost makes me sick. I said “their relationship”, I did not say “my son’s relationship with that woman”.
I guess that is an improvement. OK Go ahead and tell me if I deserve a monument. For the effort I am making, well, kind of a monument. LOL.
The problem is not my good intentions. I always have good intentions. The problem is the following, and I will make an analogy with an anecdote/joke:
There was this man who liked very much a girl that he usually saw in the street. Every day he thought to him self, tomorrow when I see her I will tell her how beautiful she is, how shiny is her hair and how I would love to invite her for a date. If she accepts I will take her to the best restaurant in town, I will buy her flowers and if I get lucky she might make love to me in a future date. So, he is planning that order of events, he practices in front of the mirror, he practices with friends, memorizes his speech, and re-enact his order of events.
One day he sees the girl and she suddenly says “Hi, how are you?”
He suddenly blanks out, he paralyzes and he says abruptly: “Do you want to f*ck?
The point is, that no matter how good intentions I have, how much I practice, my son always go beyond, way much beyond of what I have expected, and he slaps me in the face and catches me off guard and there I go upset and triggered and miserable.
When I was upset for holding hands they were already kissing, when I was preparing my self to accept that, in a matter of days, they were already sleeping together, I had not even digested that my baby was having a mistress, because that is the name of fornication, mistress, ok, different times, they do, I cannot prevent it, suddenly he wants to take her to my mother’s house who has never allowed me to take anybody females or male to her house, no visitors, then he tells me that she does not want any guests of mine, she will take his. Against my will he takes this two months girlfriend to my mother’s house.
Now I am accepting that I will not see fireworks because GFM does not want to. I will go wherever GFM wants because I want to be with my son. I do not mean all the time, Christmas and New Year. I want to give a hug to my son at 12:00 on New Year. I want to be there. I will not ask him to dance, because GF does not like it. I will discipline my self so my son sees a good mother.
I am afraid he will do something further more dareful to stab me in the back, like he wants to hurt me. Or just to show me he is independent. But he does it in a disrespectful way, in public, causing me shame.
No matter what, I will try to be prepared to be a mature mother, but in front of the ocean of possibilities of who knows what he will be following her to do, on his own will, just to show me, I am not an authority anymore. I am little by little understanding. Assimilating. But then I do not know if I will be always challenged beyond my possibilities and preparation.
I cosigned ofr his car, I put him under my car insurance policy, it went up, he had an accident, he still does things that I disagree about driving habits. I do many things for him. How can he consider him self independent? Does he want my to sop paying his cell phone? Should I? I need to stay in contact with him, but he does not answer me, just sometimes. If I stop doing things for him GFM will do it.
I know, I am going in circles. Let us go little by little. One day at a time. Let us just plan for New Year’s eve. Only that. Then I will worry for the other things.
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Dear Lupita,
I am sorry for all the pain that is evident in your post. I was thinking of my H and I going in the other room when my in laws were around. *I *was doing it to get away from the pressure of my in laws for a few minutes. That thought just hit me. I needed a break(many) from their presence.
Lupita, You may be going through 'normal" pain about your son growing up. However,it is made worse by your own deep insecurities from your M. That is how I see it. When child leaves, it is hard for any parent. However, your own life feels so empty ,so it seems much, much worse to you.
I think that you are on the right track by asking honest questions of the board. There is so much wisdom ,here. Observer was sent to you,like an angel. Keep being honest and I think that you will heal.
I think that you are doing well, Lupita. Ami
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I apreciate your response Ami. But it sounds like a response from the GF 20 years old. Not from a mother of older children. She does not go away from me, she takes him away from his own friends, she does not have any friends of her own. You do not seem to understand my point of lack of affinity and fear of a future failure for incompatibility, and the degree of defiance of my son and the fact that she and her mother are Ns. Recipy for desaster.
Also, I was execting at least one ha ha from my joke.
But thank you anyway, wehn we post here we expose our selves to recieve imput that we disagree with. That is OK. I can respectfully disagree with you and still appreciate you.
God bless you Ami.
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Just talked to GFM. I told her that I was available to whatever she wanted. That I wanted my son to be happy and that I could miss my traditional trip to see fire works. She was very happy. She got her way. But I do not feel bad for that. My son called me today. i did not call him. He wanted to be sure that I agree with everything. I gave him peace. Yes, I just want to be with you and I do not care where you want for us to go. I will not make a temper tantrum when he stays at GFM to sleep on New Years after the party. It is OK. I will come here at home and talk to Izzy if possible, or watch TV, or read a book, or play the piano with head phones, or just lye down and observe the ceiling, or just go to sleep. I will not be sad. Hmmm, better said, if God allows it, I will.
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Hey Lupita:
When we have children...... we are forever walking around with our hearts outside our chests.... our hearts are our children.
That's someone else's quote.... I suppose I just butchered it: /
Anyhoo..... I think you'll look back and be pleased you joined your son on New Year's Eve and kept your boundaries in place, regarding sleeping in your own comfy bed. He'll be so pleased you're there and participating in the celebration.
The best way to drive him away is to criticize his GF and her mother then cut him off.
I prefer having conversations where you might point out one of her negative traits and praise it..... that gets them thinking, lol.
I'm not sure how old your S is but.. if he's employed, living on his own and out of school.... you should give some seriouse thought to letting him fend for himself with regard to cellphone and car insurance. He's a man now, he's made that clear.... let him be a man.
Teaching him to fend for himself at the appropriate time is more important that teaching him to depend on someone else at the wrong time.
::whispering:: This isn't about punishing him..... this isn't about taking away the priviledges of a child bc he's not doing what you desire.....
this is about his claiming to be self sufficient and you're allowing him to take that on so he can function better when he's truly on his own.... when you're not there for him to turn to.
Please...... I don't think I ever knew..... how old is he and how old is his gf?
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Lighter, I have said it many times in almost all the last five threads. But I do not mind to say it again. He is a full time student at the university, he is a senior, he works part time in different jobs, and he is 22. he is going to graduate next Christmas. Double major. That is why I help him. And if he does something inaprorpiate like getting pregnant, or marrying before graduating or being finacially resposnible, I do not know what I am going to do. I will be very mad, sad, and disappointed.
Still, there is nothing I can do.
Lihter, where have you been? Who do you think you are that you can abandone us just like that? Just kidding. I missed you very much.
Izzy, thank you so much for your kind words and thank you so much for appreciating my joke and understanding the metaphore and analogy to my situation behind it.
Hope that I behave well. I was feeling better but I am very mad right now. Why? I dont know. My son is really being very inconsiderate to me despite all my sacrifices. I know that people do not like me to say that. That he is spreading his wings. He wants to be independent.
I am going in circles. I need to go out, even to Borders to read Albert Ellis. But I am exhausted. I need to take my son and GF and GFM out of my mind.
Why do I feel so bad? Is it the always lose thinking error? I am concerned about power? I am afraid to lose my son? well yes. But the fear I have is not normal.
Worst case scenario, he gets pregnant and ruins his career. So, what?
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The day is almost over and I have not called him. He called me once. That was it. I am being strong.
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Hey, so, I arrive super elegant, I say hello to everybody, I laugh, I say excuse me I have to talk to someody else I have not said hello yet, then I see my son and GF, then I touch son and ask are youhaving a good time, then I grab GF by te neck and say, fi you get pregnant and ruin my son's career I will ...... I will.............. I will................oh, excuse me, I have to say hello to somebody else.
No, I wont do that. I will say hello beautiful, are you having a good time? then move on to another person.
Any way, like lighter says, demn if you do demn if you dont. If you are a devoted mother they hate you for over portection. My son has accused me of making of him a CC. He said I am a CC and it is your fault. he is not a CC, he is just prudent. maybe it is now that he is tryig to prove that he is not a CC.
And if you have your own life and have boyfriends and go out, they still hate you.
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CC is a man who likes pink, who avoids a fight, who is afraid of conforntations, and who let people walk ol over him.
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YIKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I take that back. My son is very macho, I pormise you. Or I would not be having the problems I have now with him. Then, I did not know that correct word to use. He did not say that word. He said another word, with P. So I just tried to be cleaner. He wanted to mean that I overprotected him and did not let him develop skills that other buys do. I did not want hm to gte hurt, and fought many of his fights, and his friends ridiculed him because I did not want him to play hockey because I did not want him to gte hurt, and many other things. Hope that that clarify the "situation" LOL
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You are TOO funny,Lupita. (LOL) Ami
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Lupita,
I can certainly understand what you are going through.My oldest daughter married someone that I believed was arrogant, abusive, and a N. She wanted to leave him so I cosigned for an apt. and she left. He went to Fl. to see his sister and returned within three weeks to live in the apt. She didn't call me or speak to me for several months and quit paying the rent. I ended up paying the rent of over $3000 and lost contact for over a year. That was over ten years ago and she moved out of state. I am now thinking about moving there when I retire and my son in law is truly a good person, just needed to mature. I am only telling you this to show there is a possibility that things will change. I COULD NOT STAND MY SON IN LAW and now think he is a blessing...what a difference ten years makes. Here's wishing the same for you.
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Sorry Lupita.... I've been without computer for days and not quite caught up.... I've been pretty hit or miss lately just trying to catch a minute here and there.
Thanks for being so patient with me regarding your son's age.
I have lots of catching up to do on the board lately.
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Lupita,
I feel so good for you...I know you are going to cognitively have a blast at the party!
You'll be serene and contained and feel quiet happiness. Good for you!
And it's been a joy to see you and Fizzy-Izz go all wacky together.
SO good to hear your laughter!
love,
Hops
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Well, thank yuou so much for all your help.
Off I go to play in church, prelude, postlude, offertory, and hymns. I love to play.
After that, eat wiht my son.
Let us see if he brings 'company'.
If he can separate for a few minutes from his syamesee united by the pelvis, to be with his mother.
Later in the evening I will answer to all the nice people who took the time to write me.
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Lupita,
I NEVER knew that you were so funny!! Ami
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Lupita,
Hopefully you are pressing your party dress and curling/straightening your hair in preparation for the big event. I"ll be thinking about you and saying prayers that you can pull this off (though we all know you can). Early Happy New year.
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Lighter, you don’t have to apologize, I was kidding, I missed you.
Alone, thank you for sharing. Hope that every thing turns out OK.
Ami, thank you for your kind words.
Hopalong, thank you for sharing our joy. Next time fizzy-Izzy and I get wacky, please, instead of observe, join us and get wacky the three together. How about wine, champaigne or whisky? Or we are just regular beer girls? Vodka? Or an exotic Caribean drink? We had bad husbands, we have one only child, we are alone. So much in common that is not even funny.
I had a nice lunch with my son. A few discussions, but we finished fine. He came alone. They were interchanging texts every five to ten minutes. I am sick of it. They are behaving like 12 years old. I just insisted that he had to be responsible about not having kids to ruin his career. He agreed. He does not want to quit school to work full time to support a baby. He promised me to be responsible. So, I feel better.
Show time tomorrow. Let us see if I behave well, and not do like the person in the anecdote that I said at the beginning of this thread.
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Dear friends, I might not have the opportunity to test my skills. My son was called to a probable job for New Year's eve. That might be an escape for him, not to be among women fighting for him. The job has not been confirmed yet. But if it comes, it would be nice money for him and releive of a night of probable friction. I do not know.
He accused me of trying to control him. I only want him to graduate. Is that controling him? I just want him not to get pregnant, at least not before graduating, just one more year. Not before being financially responsible. Is that controlling?
:x :?
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It's awful..... all the unknows WHAT IF's?
What if he's not smart enough to handle birth control himself?
What if the girls WANTS to get pregnant?
What if she says she handled it but doesn't?
What if it doesn't cross his mind that he's responsible too IF he doesn't want children this year?
What if they both use it and they still get pregnant?
What if what if what if?
And that awful feeling of standing before a bad situation...... not wanting to say "told you so."
But it might be hanging there soon,
or.....
even worse.....
Your son comes up to you and clutches at your arm.....
says you were right.....
every word you uttered, which he resented at the time, came true and now he's looking desperately in your eyes for more answers NOW that it's too late to change what fell on him.
You won't have any answers. It will be done and nothing will undo it.
You're already adjusting and figuring out how to deal with the next phase of that reality..... you can't waste time on their regrets.
Your job description just changed.... once again.
Now you must be positive and help them seek ways of coping and navigating through their current situation.... living with a child and unfinished school...... with limited funds and time and experience raising a child.
What WOULD happen if he got this girl pregnant?
::wishing you could insitgate your sons lengthy proximity to a newborn baby:: Nothing romantic about that...::shaking head::
Maybe, if you follow the logical conclusions to their most feared ends..... you'd fear them less?
It wouldn't be the end of the world.
You'd have a grandchild and your son would be forced to mature and take on the role of a man very quickly.
What would you want for him then?
What could you do to help him acheive that?
How much time would you want to spend with your grandchild?
There are single mothers who work, raise children and go to school at the same time.
Your son might not get much sleep but.... why would he have to give up his education?
Not everyone gives up their education.
BTW...... a friend of mine lost his scholorship and funding for school when he got married. It was a kick in the teeth on top of the shock of finding sex leads to babies ::gulp::
I don't understand why people don't take sex more seriously...... they're weilding BABY MAKING APPARATUS for goodness sake!
OK... not helping, I realize that.
Alll you can do is give him information.
Saying things like.....
"I suppose that having a baby now wouldn't be the end of the world..... I'd get to hold my grandchild and you might find you don't need sleep or a break from caring for a child and working 3 jobs while attending school.... and if that failed.... settling for a job you don't prefer wouldn't kill you either. I'm sure marriage to your GF would be worth that price. At any rate, you're right, you're a man now and these are your decisions to make...... after all.... you'll be the one living with the consequences, not me."
Hug him with love, as you would if he ended up getting her pregnant..... and do your job.
Your job is taking care of you. Not controlling him, he's right about that.
He's a young man now and young people can be driven into doing things simply bc we oppose them.
If you truly let him feel he's on his own and that he's free to make big boy decisions.... he might be more careful about them. As long as he has the feeling you're controlling him, he won't get the full impact that the consequences are his to deal with, alone.
I remember feeling a version of that when I was protectively dating an abusive Army Ranger...... when I felt my family finally accepting him.... releasing their tight grip of fear on me..... I about fell over from the feeling of falling and being left to a fate I absolutely DID NOT WANT. I got myself out and never thought about going back.
Don't pick on the GF.
You can do more good by accepting, ahead of time, those things that you fear. Verbalize them to him as though you'd be OK but make sure he understands what that might look like.
Shrug your shoulders and look absolutely NON judgemental. "I guess you really love her.... maybe that's worth any price?"
He can then feel free to ponder the possible prices that could may very well land on his head. Hopefully, he'll adjust his priorities and make responsible adult decisions.
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Very good advice Lighter, though I know it's hard to take. It sounds like your son is a very responsible and intelligent young man, but when it comes to the matters of the heart that all goes out the window. Ultimately if the "worse" does happen, you will still want to be a part of it so GF will have all the control. The more she is alienated now, the harder it will be to get close when you need to. That is really a hard thing to do, but it's for you as much as your son.
I have a very good friend whose son married a girl she didn't like. They now have two children and my friend hasn't talked to her son in over three years. She has tried by calling, sending cards, and packages but absolutely no contact. She totally blames the girl, but I have told her your son has to except some of the blame of letting his mother go for no reason. She never said anything to the girl, the girl just knew she wasn't the one the mother wanted him with. I know this doesn't help, but you are still in the begining where you can possibly have a civil relationship with GF for the sake of your son. Not easy I know, but the consequences maybe so much worse. Good luck.
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Hi Lupita,
Happy New Year!
Thinking of you. Hope all went well last night!
Peace
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Me too, Lupita!
Happy New Year and how did it go?
love,
Hops
PS--heard from my D and she's ecstatic. So thrilled the tropical weather and w/her apt. and eager for school to start. Her 2 blessed friends drove 18 hours with her and then helped her unload the truck and carry her belongings and furniture up two flights of stairs. Saints!
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I am so happy for you Hoppy!
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Hops... so happy to hear that for you and D!
What did I miss?
You and D were having a spot of difficulty then I heard no more..... she was criticizing your advice and you were going to pull back... what happened between there and here?
((Hops and D))
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Hey Lighter, thanks!
I feel I'm sort of hijacking this thread which is mostly for Lup about her son, so I'll start one.
xo
Hops