Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: lighter on December 31, 2007, 11:07:29 AM
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My MIL wanted to know why I waited so long to marry..... she used words like "old maid" and asked me if I wasn't desperate when I found her son?
She also said that the only reason her son was marrying me was bc I was blonde.... then asked me how many months along my pregnancy was at the dinner table, with a crowd listening on.
Considering she was pregnant with my husband when she married, the word hypocrite does come gently strolling to mind, lol.
Oh my, this is turning into a rant. ::sigh::
It never occurred to me to be desperate..... what occurred to me was how bad things could be if I married the wrong man :shock:
That's what I thought about.
That's what my mother put in my head.
"Wait wait wait".... she said.....
and so that's what was there.
I didn't think about children, till I was almost 40, btw.
And I wasn't freaked out about it either.
I think my MIL was afraid of being an old maid and that she chose her husband based on shame and desperation... in her day.... she'd been almost 30 when she married. She'd given an ultimatum to her steady, who was going away to medical school, at the time.
Apparently.... he had a controlling mother he paid attention to :shock:. bc he resisted her and she was left shocked and humiliated without a proposal.
All her friend's ultimatums were working!
I'm not making any of this up, btw.
She married a man who lost a bet, and had to go out with her bc neither he nor his friend wanted a date with her.
They tossed a coin to see who would get a date with her friend.
Now..... that's sort'a surprising to me too.... didn't the women have a say in these matters, back in the day?
She laughs about it..... but I didn't laugh when I heard the story.
Her husband set a timetable for marriage.........
and she was available.
You know what?
They dated exactly the same number of months their son dated me, got pregnant and then married in exactly the same number of months my courtship and marriage took place with their son.
When my MIL's mother asked me how I landed her grandson..... I remember her shocked face when I responded with "I suppose not wanting to be caught myself, did the trick."
That's what was in their heads, catching a man, and that's what they thought about... becoming an old maid and shame.
They didn't regard themselves as valuable resourses who had a say in their futures.
My mother told me I wasn't an apple hanging on the tree...... there for a man to pick, if he so chose. What did their mother's tell them? Be perky! Be shiney! Be bright and if you can't be a bright red color..... develop a personality?
Good Lord and Little Fishes..... I don't understand.
My father's old girlfriend's mother told her she wasn't pretty, so she'd have to develop a personality to catch a man. :shock:
She was beautiful and pregnant (with a nice man's child) out of wedlock, puking on her finals in nursing school.
Why would her mother put that in her head? She didn't want to be pregnant..... she bammed down the family staircase on her fanny, trying to dislodge the invasion, as she saw it.
And so.... my MIL was so surprised that it never occurred to me that being unmarried wasn't the worst thing that could happen to me.
In her mind..... it was.
::whispering:: I was very happy working and living on my own.
Men have always been a mixed blessing. I guess all blessings are.
One of my best friends is an unmarried nurse (almost 80now)with her doctorate in teaching.... she's amazing and doesn't regret that she never married.
She's busier than a body should be doing research on her family history, mostly from Ireland, and she travels and put 2 minority nurses aids through nursing school in the last 5 years, taught them how to handle their finances and take control of their lives.
Her life's rich,happy and productive. She's taken care of her own retirement..... has no regrets.
I have another friend who's well employed, top salesman in her company 90% of the time and she's looking into a sperm bank in January.
She's 35yo and would have regretted horribly marrying any of the men she dated.
Her familie's been putting pressure on her to have a family since she was supposed to marry the boy who took her virginity in high school..... drunken lout that he turned out to be :shock:
Her sister's highschool boyfriend strangled her (the sister) and left her for dead in her college dorm. She lived, thanked God but.... we're not always meant to marry the person in our lives when we're very young. This guy was arrested in a parking lot trying to sell his infant daughter (by some other unfortunate woman) to a stranger. I think he was asking under $100.00 for her.
We aren't available for Mr. Good Enough For Us, if we're attached to Mr. Not Good Enough, KWIM?
There are worse things that being single.....
I think we all know that.
RIght?
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Have you ever seen the play, "Translations"? I saw it performed by a gorgeous cast from the Dublin Theater- mindblowing, truly. The play deals with the plight of the Irish during the period when they had to meet in secret to practice Latin, etc, and keep the arts, literature and sciences of their age and region alive.
The heroine is an Irishwoman who must marry in order to keep her property and freedom- the hero is an English soldier who is an honorable man , marries her and appreciates her wonderful qualities.
There are still limitations and dangers for isolated women, but most of the negative attitudes are vestiges from the days when women were possessions, first of their fathers, and then their husbands, and often ultimately their sons ( who may have wanted control of the property)
I saw the cutest man at the post office tonight- I rushed in, asked the crowd for information I needed, he sort of waited for me to complete my business and gave me some information and I thanked him and left. I suddenly realized that soon I would be free and single again , and though it was fun to see a very darling man and speak with him ( and he seemed to like me and want to talk more as I rushed past), I wonder if I will be ready to deal with things properly when I no longer have the marital status as a shield, veil and chastity belt...For now I am happy and content with the safety my status affords, and am cozily cosseted in my solitary pursuits...
Love,
Changing
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Well I have stories to tell regarding love and desperation. From a girl whose self esteem has been robbed by an M mom. I had a guy force himself on my in high school and then we line of hooked up periodically after that. I never got over my first love until I set up a meeting with him when I was 43-I had not seen him in 12 years and I had only seen him once in ten years. We net up and there was nothing! All the undying love went out the door. I was such a party girl that I took away my
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own princess status. By the time I wanted to find the perfect man nobody wanted me. Then the desperation set in and I married my ex who was a whore. That is why I think it 's good that my D found her man.
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Hi Lighter,
I too am in the 30 something and over before you get married club. But that is just me. I was a far different person at 30 than I was at 20. Then again, I am a different person at 40 something than I was at 30.
However, like you, I understand that some are born as old souls, get married early in their lives, and have a wonderful relationship that lasts the rest of their lives.
Personally, I think it is important that people live on their own and support themselves prior to going into a marriage – if only for the knowledge that they can support themselves if something goes wrong in the marriage (I say this based on my mother who claimed that she stayed with my father because she didn’t know that she could support herself and was scared to be on her own – of course this is my mother so have to take anything she says with a grain of salt.)
Actually, I think the whole marriage thing is a bit over-rated. I don't feel I need a legal piece of paper dictated by societal norms to tell me I am committed to someone for the rest of my life. If it weren’t for the tax break, I think my H and I would be happily living together without that legal bit of paper that states we are married.
Seems to me that the down-payment on a house cost of a wedding is ludicrous – the princess for a day, in the long virginal white 3000.00 gown that you wear once, the 300.00 a head meals of chicken or fish, the father walking the bride down the aisle to give her away (eww - as though he is transferring ownership to the new man….)
Oops – getting on a rant here….
Good to hear from you Lighter! Happy New Year.
Peace
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Overcomer..... I see how you've come to feel as you do..... for your daughter.
You want her to do things differently and be safe... loved.... have choices.
The thing is.... even if she doesn't do them the way she seems to be heading....
she'll still be doing them differently than you did.... no fears there it would seem.
I partied and banged around the world hard in my twenties too..... that doesn't seem to be where your dear daughter is heading though.
I like Finding Peace's idea of going out into the world and carving your own niche.
Supporting yourself and being capable so you know how strong you are, before committing to a man.
The buddy with the good job and sperm bank appointment?
She was raised by an addicted mother and cheating absent father.... they fought when he was home and then the mother would say "You have to be able to support yourself girls.... you have to."
You know what? She's pretty much lived her life by those words he mother put in her head.
She can support herself.... but she can't find a worthy man. She has a bad picker. I think she realizes that by now. She sure can't find a decent man who has her earning power. It's very hard and she doesn't seem to be interested in the nice men.
It's so hard to get everything right, isn't it?
From here.... I see your daughter in a very comfortable situation with her friend, both working very hard to get ahead and earn their way. I'm sure she'll use her education and grow as an individual.
Tell her to wait for children, if she can.... and navigate the world as an adult... travel now bc it won't be possible when children come and nurture her marriage so it's strong when/if children do come along. You can tell her that's my advice.
I don't mean to sound like a mean cinic here but...... nothing like a first marriage to teach you some of the biggest lessons in life if it doesn't work out. Nothing lost as long as there aren't any children in the middle of it, KWIM?
::hoping your daughter has what my cousin has:: Two lovely people suited to each other, laughing through their lives, committed to each other and their family. Always laughing and findingway. So nice: )
Finding peace.... your post resonated with me.... it truly did. I'm a firm believer in getting out there in the world, stretching our legs and broadening our horizons before making huge decisions about what we'll be doing for the rest of our lives. How can we do that if we don't know how to care for ourselves.... if we don't know what our options are?
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Marriage isn't an urgent thing in my mind anymore, but a gentle wish that comes and goes....
I
do
have
difficulty
with
celibacy
though
:oops:
I miss having someone to touch. Not just passionately, but affectionately.
Hops
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I understand, Hops.
I will say this about being single.....
when it rains....
it pours.
I think getting happy and situated with ourselves is very attractive to others.
Usually... to those who want to take us apart and change us.
That calls into mention.... BOUNDARIES.
Just bc someone enters into our lives doesn't give them power over us.
If we're coming from a place of urgency.... WE give them power.
If we're coming from a place of peace and want... instead of need.... we have a better shot at keeping boundaries in tact.
I must say.... it's so difficult to remain diligent and not let them slip.
I never mastered it. ::shaking head::
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In my situation,
living with a 97 y/o and having to tend to her needs every night and weekend...
doesn't seem to be a whole lot of room for new people to enter my life.
What with working FT and being doggone tired a lot, haven't summed up
the energy to go out and about.
But...I need to get off the board and deal with stuff. Still in my PJs.
sigh,
Hops
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You're right... and you have the church activities and groups too.
WHat I meant by...."when it rains it pours...."
Is that out of dry patch can come unexpected several options, all at once.
I attribute this to the way we carry ourselves and how people perceive us.
People are attracted to people who have hope, discipline and something (doesn't generally matter what) going on.
You're still in the world making connections, even at the bookstore and coffee shop, church and standing in line at the grocery store.
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Believe me I know it. If I could do it I would be ok being alone again. My H is an ok man but he is still helpless and I feel I settled. I am a magnet for men with addictions. Men who get overwhelmed by life in general. I hate being "in charge" of everything. Just once I want someone who will take care of me.
But I think some people can get married at a young age and grow old together. Less time to accumulate baggage to bring into the marriage....
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Have to confess that the very thought of ever marrying again fills me with dread!
You see, I married young to my first and only boyfriend, who was in a rush for me to become his property (I realized this during my awakening and enlightenment period 4 years ago)
So, I have no idea of what men are really like, as in reality, I only have my NDad and my exNH as examples!
Was just sitting here thinking of Hops' posting with the comment of want to be with someone and just touch them with affectionate closeness, and I reflected on how, all through my married life, that's all I ever wanted, but, it was not ever allowed.
My exNH never liked to be touched, ever. So, I always thought that all men were like that.
So, I have never even affectionately touched a man!
I feel like the odd one out?!
Thought provoking indeed.
Love, Leah
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Aww, ((((((((Leah)))))))))
I hope when you're ready,
there will be a man you can trust
with your tender touch.
love,
Hops
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I do not believe in marriage. 17 years alone. I wish I had somebody but i do not know if i would put up with the consequences, and sacrifices. The remote control TV, I cant share that. nobody can watch TV with me. What if one is closing windows and th other opnes windows, it happen with my grand mother and grand father. He did not want anybody to see inside their house and my GM said that she wanted fresh air and sun entering the house. Also, the dating "monster" how can I be comfrtable if I have to be f**king Jay Leno to entertain so he has a good time, and that stupid thing of "be your self" is just that, a stupid thing.
Anyway, I am for marriage once in a life time and if that did not work you have less probablities that the second will work so after one you (public in general) should stay single and just have somebody for companionship living apart.
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Hi,
Never again. Once was enough for me. I got married at 23 because for the first time in my life I met someone who was nice to me......... our marriage is over about 13 years now but we are still friendly. I was so scared that I would be "left on the self" and knew my family would approve of him.........I did think I would live happily ever after, very naive not aware that I had married a "child". I cannot imagine ever making a decision to marry anyone ever again and have no desire to do so. I am still in the throes of being so relieved to be away from Xn that another man seems too scary right now. My sister asked me today if I would like to be in a relationship and I have been thinking about it and the answer right now is no. I am happy in myself, like my life, I too miss physical contact but am willing to forego that for peace of mind. I am sure there are men out there who are not abusive but I don't know if I am clear enough to be in a relationship. I am afraid of losing myself again and guess I do not trust myself enough. I am a little envious and admire people who have managed to stay married and be content in the relationship
axa
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Thanks Lighter; I love this topic!
I don't hold any strong views about whether people should marry young or older, or at all.
My guy and I are marrying this year though! Our engagement has been around 4 years long, which has been a nice amount of time to get our heads around the commitment and idea of sharing our lives with each other. I don't think I'd marry a second time, but this is our first so it holds a lot of meaning for both of us. I really can see myself living my life out with him, and loving him every moment. Each year gets better for us, and it started out good, so I am looking forward to this!
Lighter, I'm sorry you had to suffer through those rude comments from your MIL over the holidays. I can relate, as my (almost) MIL is very rude towards me at times too. I think it boils down to the fact that she wants more intimacy and time with her son than he feels comfortable with giving her. She's probably resentful that I have the attention from her son that she wants for herself (instead of finding herself a decent partner). Also, a lot of women from that generation saw marriage as a meal ticket and status symbol, and tend project that when they form opinions about other marriages. Still, it so hard to deal with the rude beahviour!!
Axa, I can relate to how it feels after you've been abused by men who you trusted. You learn SO much from those experiences though. I think abuse is what made me consciously understand what I really needed and valued in men. In a way it turned out to be a blessing. I am sure it will for you too.
X bella
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Congratulations, Bella. Your relationship sounds so hopeful.
I want to say that my MIL was only rude a very short time..... and only that length bc my H was telling me that his mother loved me.... wanted to be part of my life and wedding plans....
he was gaslighting me about her feelings or projecting how he wanted her to feel, not sure but matters not, now.
She didn't even hold our child at the hospital... she just sat slumped in the corner of my room and refused to look at her.
There were other things but.... like I said..... it didn't last long.
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Dear Lighter-
:shock:
Love,
changing
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You'd think I would have caught on when she said....
"My son never played the hero before" while looking through our wedding pictures, as though I was some poor dumb knocked up slut he rescued :shock:
The fact that he'd never done anything heroic in his own mother's eyes shouldn't have been lost on me either but....WHOOSH! It sailed right over my confused little peanut head, lol.
Lord.... she managed to chuck so much into such a short span of time: /
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Lighter, do you talk to your MIL? Do you see her? Do you resent her behavior?
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Congratulations, Bella. Your relationship sounds so hopeful.
I want to say that my MIL was only rude a very short time..... and only that length bc my H was telling me that his mother loved me.... wanted to be part of my life and wedding plans....
he was gaslighting me about her feelings or projecting how he wanted her to feel, not sure but matters not, now.
She didn't even hold our child at the hospital... she just sat slumped in the corner of my room and refused to look at her.
There were other things but.... like I said..... it didn't last long.
Its good to hear that the beahviour didn't last, Lighter. JUst a thought; perhaps your husband was right, and your MIL really did like and love you. But there may have been an inherent conflict that got in the way. So many relationships are like that, sadly. Conflicts of interests make expressing love so hard.
X bella
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I haven't spoken to my MIL in over a year, Lupita.
She made it quite clear, in e mails I intercepted, that her widdle puddin didn't have to feel badly about cheating on the nasty mother of her grandchildren. She topped herself in that one by accusing me of behaving provacatively with the nasty fish gut fly covered Haitian hired help who were actually staring at my boobs, not the other way round. These men had many children by many women they never married..... they were disrespectful, lazy and incompetent. Not likely that I'd spend time behaving provocatively around them. One didn't even speak english so I usually hid when he came around bc he liked to smile really big and talk for an hour with me just smiling and nodding, unable to understand anything he said. I did understand it when his adorable wife said that she had no intention of tying her tubes after the twins were born.... their 4th and 5th children..... "God put many many babies in my belly" was her exact quote. :shock:
I assume my MIL's e mail clued H in that she wouldbe willing to lie on the stand, about my alleged behavior.
Before that, she and my FIL called me a liar when I called them for help. They proclaimed the only problem in the marriage was that I made my H work too hard and spent too much money, which is curiouse bc he never even consulted me when he bought our house. He had me feeling so guilty, I never asked for anything....., much less asked something expensive. It all represented work for me, in any case. I renovated 3 story property with a toddler and baby on my hip while he was back here cheating and pigging up our lives. Eh.... I suppose he was feeding his parents a version of me that wasn't too flattering this entire time. Can't really blame them for everything but..... Lupita.... you don't want to alienate the woman your son marries, that's for sure.
After H fessed up to the affairs.... she e mailed me that she'd love to see me last Christmas.... she was so sorry she ever doubted me, etc. No mention of his terroizing me, assualting me or threatening to leave the children and I penniless, become a deadbeat father. I just didn't have it in me to discuss it,and I sent back a very polite e mail asking her not to contact me again..... wished her a merry christmas. She wrote him that she felt I would be accusing him of cruel treatment so he'd best beware.... she didn't think I'd back down so get a lawyer to convince the judge I was insatiably greedy. They labled my e mail "scathing." No surprises there. They do egriously bad things to me..... and I;m accused of doing them wrong.... hmmmmm.
So no.... we don't really speak at this time.
Bella..... I think she came to appreciate me but I'm quite sure she didn't love me in the beginning. I think she was upset that he sprung the marriage on her without consulting her,
understandable...
but then he told her it was my idea to elope (not) and she was upset she didn't get to attend the wedding. I;m assuming that was what set her off... I could be wrong. From there on out, I couldn't do anything right. I chose too inexpensive and few wedding gifts on my wedding registry, which I didn't want in the first place. Second wedding... 37 yo, already had my own house and stuff. I didn't need anything. If I wanted to do some renovating at his lake home... I had to hear how much money that would cost... did I know how hard he worked" etc.... and that's all he ever talked about, of course I knew. I took on all other duties so he could work, ahem... that's what he called his alternative lifestyle.... 'work.' I still can't hear that word without scoffing inside.
She later did silly things like picked on the way I dressed my oldest...."your SIL always puts your niece in a nice dress" so I start doing it to then mine was in a tulle dress and her cousin was always in jeans every holiday and visit we all attended.
I never saw the my niece in anything but jeans, come to think of it, why would I let her confuse me with silly contradicting statements like that?
I wanted her to like me, is why.
Oh well...... believe them when they tell you who they are.
Don't make the first excuse.
It doesn't change anything, it just prolongs it.
If I kidded myself that she liked me..... I'd be doing myself a disservice by doubting my reality.
I'm so tired of doubting my reality, Bella.
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But what did you do for her to like you? My son's GF does nothing. She is arrogant with me and ignores me.
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Dear Lighter, I cannot fight with you, I love the image that you have projected to me with the wise advises you have been giving me. plus, I really appreciate your intelligence and your good heart. I wish, if possible to have a respectful discussion with you about why, a doughter in low should not do an effort to gain and earn the sympathy of a mother in low. Now, I am not talking about an irrational mother in low like yours, who insulted you deeply. I am talking when nothing has happened. She just ignores me. She thinks she can make it with out me. Of course on the short run she can make my son marry with out my help. BUt, dont you think that the husband is going to resent that the wife does not work to earn his mother love? Dont you think that that daughter in low will have more harmony in her house if she is nice to the mother in low? Does she want that the son goes to see his mother wiht out her? Will he resent that his mother cannot enjoy the grand children? Dont you think that he wants to enjoy his children with his mother too?
If the mother in low does not live with them, why does GF have to be against her? Why cant she do an effort to give some comfort to the mother who is seeing her son going away?
I remember an aunt of mine who helped her daughter in low, advising strongly her son to go back with his wife. That marriage was almost destroyed and my aunt worked hard so my cousin went back to his wife.
My mother and my SIL are enemies. My brother is always against the wall.
Why do I have to walk on egg shells for young selfish woman? I just want her to talk to me and to be friendly. Other than that, I do not need anything from her but just to love my son.
In the three months we have been together only four times. I beg her to come to the group so we can chat. She calls my son and takes him into another room. If I go to them she just gets up and goes to another room. I already told her that I wish to be friends with her.
Again, last night she was looking on the other direction, all the time!!!!!!! I asked when do you go back to school, she answered, Monday. How many classes are you taking? She said four. But when my son teacher came to say hello she talked to him very nicely.
She dispise me. I have not done anything to her. What I want is not at all irrational. I am not against their relationship, not even aginst marriage. Just want graduation, and to know each other better. A year, is that too much to ask?
Lighter, I am sorry you were insulted by your MIL, but I am not like her. So, why is GF so arrogant? She only has three months with my son.
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She was youning last night, like 20 times, during my son playing. His teacher pointed it out. And that is what son is going to be doing all his life. Music. She is youning. It is boring for her.
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She was youning last night, like 20 times, during my son playing. His teacher pointed it out. And that is what son is going to be doing all his life. Music. She is youning. It is boring for her.
Dear Lupita,
I take it that the GF was yawning and visibly bored and that your son's music teacher noticed this and made comment about it to your son?
If that is the case, then your son has someone of integrity in the outer circle, which is all to the good, for your son.
Love, Leah
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She sounds like she's very pretty and used to being the center of attention.
I don't know how her mother raised her but it sounds like she raised her to be a rich man's pet :shock:
You're son will soon realize that he's being groomed for a particular position..... doting, fawning and won't that get old after a while?
Esp when his friends are getting jobs and concentrating on their careers and he's struggling to get out of the house..... away from his insecre lazy wife?
I think he'll figure her out if he sticks to his guns and doesn't marry anytime real soon.
Surely his friends get the same pushing away..... insecure fearful reaction from her?
Not only you?
They might have a couple things to say to your son too.
She does't want to share him or let him enjoy time away from her.... she doesn't praise him or join him in his interests.
After they've had sex all over the house and everywhere they can.... I don't think he'll be so blindly smitten with her anymore.
Do you?
BTW..... aside from the time I drove out of the State and let them hanging without a goodbye...... I was always friendlier to my MIL than she was to me.
I was undaunted in that department. I was cheerful and I saw it as quite funny after a while and just kept plugging away..... like....
I'd sweep her up in a bearhug when I saw her and she's not the type to hug, lol.
I'd talk to her like I talk to you guys.... just matter of factly, the truth and I think she was caught off gaurd by that.
It got better though but only after I set that boundary.
Then she'd say things to bug her other DIL like...... Lighter's the prettiest girl here..... My son should show up to family gatherings.
I was very stunned that they backed him over the affairs, assault and ongoing threats by shifting attention to what they thought I was doing wrong.
All you can do is show your son you're not a threat to his gf so he's free to see her clearly.... when he's defending her.... he doesn't see clearly.
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Thank you Lighter. Just a clarification. The college professor, music teacher, pointed it out to me. Not to my son. My son was playing.
Thank you so much for your answer.
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Dear Bella,
Congratulations, dear friend. I am SO happy for you. I know that you already mentioned some special things about him ,but if you care to share any more,I would love to hear. I would love to hear, particularly, HOW you communicate---deal with anger,FOO pain you each have, etc.Do you feel like you can tell him"anything"? Do you feel like he can see the "real" you--good and bad-- and still love you?
If you don't care to talk about it,I understand. Maybe ,I should start a thread on communicating in relationships. Love Ami