Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: alone48 on December 31, 2007, 01:05:27 PM
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I've been reading previous posts and have come to question my judgement on whether he's an N or not. Maybe it's something I want to pin on him as it makes my wrong choices easier to accept. If he's an N then I really got sucked in rather than making stupid choices on my own. Did I lable him as an N and really I have the problems, not him? Just wondering how to dechipher this, not dismissing that he is an N.
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You are so sweet, Alone. What a tough question. I wish I had s/thing helpful /practical to add. Maybe, other people will. I am glad that you are examining it and asking the questions. Love Ami
(((((((((((((Alone)))))))))))
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I truly do believe he fits the profile but in all fairness I must question it. I think my ex(not the N) has characteristics of an N, but certainly is able to act and have normal feelings (whatever that is) and maybe is just more full of himself than NPD. N has no remorse and easily writes people off. I have personally seen him lie numerous times and he believes his lies. Everything has been done to him and he projects his own faults easily onto others with no remorse. He recycles friends and therefore is able to say he has longtime friends, when in actuality they are continuously new to his circle and have forgotten the hurts. He is charismatic enough to regain most of them over time, but they remain superficial friends. I got too close and have been banished forever, as I knew too much. I do believe I got closer than most anyone and therefore must pay. Is he NPD.....?
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Izzy,
Thanks, I have read and do know that he is an N. The denial is there still, but ultimately I know. I fortunately worked in mental health and had resources of doctors available that knew me well and were able to sift through the mess. They all tried to get me out before I went deeper, but to no avail. So here I am no trying to sort it out on my own. I no longer have my job and those resources, hence the board. I know that we can't diagnose, but many a times in my previous job, I KNEW, by intuition which I know longer trust. The courts honestly trusted my instincts and would grant continuances to get the facts, based on my previous record. He set out to destroy that and I allowed it.
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Alone.... I can't tell if you're trying to figure out if he's an N or not bc you think you can help/change him if he's not or what.
If he's got tendencies.....
if he's sacraficing you so he doesn't have to see himself clearly.....
if you were losing your sanity.....
it's enough to know you had to go your own way.
You don't have to make complete sense of it.
What you do have to do is figure out what boundaries aren't in place for yourself, erect them and defend.
That's your job.
Taking care of you.
I don't much care about dx'ing folks past wrapping my mind around what it means to me.
He might be antisocial with N tendencies. He might be NPD or just antisocial.
All sociopaths are N's.... not all N's are sociopaths?
Who cares?
What does his behavior mean to you?
What are you going to do about it?
That's what I see mattering.
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Right at this point I don't need boundaries against him as he has banished me, my main goal is to maintain NC as long as possible until I don't even need to think about it. I guess I am just trying to define it so I won't make the same mistake and be more aware in the future. I know I will never figure it out, too many hours have been wasted on that. MY friends, colleaugues, and family all agree he's just crazy and I will be too if I keep investing in this.
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The boundaries will ensure you don't allow this back in your life again.
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Dear Alone,
People seem to key into different aspects of pathological narcissism when they think of "their N", but for me it's that blame shifting and lack of remorse, which allows him to consider everyone else expendable.
Sounds to me like you've got a pretty firm handle on the bottom line...
but the boundaries really are so important - especially the internal ones, which protect us from ourselves.
As I recall, that has always been the greatest temptation... falling back into the "if only I" pattern and wondering whether I might not be able to just manage it all a bit differently this time.
It's taken me years to finally see that... okay, so relationships are work, but sheesh... they're not supposed to be an endless struggle!
Love to you,
Carolyn
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If he talks all about himself and it appears that you are to pity him for his bad life, that all his girlffriends and wives were terrible to him (That's to make you think YOU are the one to help him be normal.)
If, otherwise, he appears to be the most handsome, considerate man you have ever met, and isn't it strange that he likes everything you do? You have so much in common that it's hard to believe (He's been listening to you and taking mental notes.)
If he rushes you for sex and especially if he rushes you for marriage. (especially if you have money and MANY women are commited with the first sexual encounter with a guy.)
Oh there is lots, like table manners, how he treats other people, if he talks badly about his other partners, then you'll be dumped, or leave and he will tell lies about you and you are just anoother number. A man ought to repect his former wife. He chose her. Why talk so trashy anoout her?
I tried to bold and highlight, but don't seem to have the technique.
1. I sure thought I was special, so much better than all the rest that didn't understand him....didn't he fool me.
2. I do feel like I was an experiment, but once he lost interest nothing I did was right.
3.The sex immediate and you're right I was hooked from the begining and then he withdrew (no pun intended).
4.If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck then it must be.....!
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Dear Izzy and Alone,
All of that... exactly... was the same for me with NPD-ex. They really are all cut from the same mold.
Always beware that rush into (false) intimacy/ soul-mate NoNseNse.
Carolyn
P.S. Watch how he treats service personnel... like waiters and clerks!!
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I am sorry, Alone, Carolyn and Izzy. It really must have hurt.
Ami
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I truly do believe he fits the profile but in all fairness I must question it. I think my ex(not the N) has characteristics of an N, but certainly is able to act and have normal feelings (whatever that is) and maybe is just more full of himself than NPD. N has no remorse and easily writes people off. I have personally seen him lie numerous times and he believes his lies. Everything has been done to him and he projects his own faults easily onto others with no remorse. He recycles friends and therefore is able to say he has longtime friends, when in actuality they are continuously new to his circle and have forgotten the hurts. He is charismatic enough to regain most of them over time, but they remain superficial friends. I got too close and have been banished forever, as I knew too much. I do believe I got closer than most anyone and therefore must pay. Is he NPD.....?
I thought my hubby was a N. He fit so well. However, after researching on this one website – http://www.ptypes.com/ – I came to the conclusion that he wasn't N but only OCPD (Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder) also described on the website.
I do have N's in my life, mother, possibly step-dad, oldest brother. And my hubby isn't like them at all. However, what threw me off was that he's like my mother, she's OCPD too. My bio-father was a psychopath and a N. I determined that through what I read on the website and through the help of my therapist.
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Dear Alone,
I agree with TT. You don't need the 'correct'(100%) definition of your former partner. First of all, no person fits any definition ,totally. My M is an N ,as a general category. She has some things like seemimg to get insight,which do not seem like an N. Either she is fooling me or mellowing(as Vaknin says)
However, in the end,it doesn't matter about the 'fine points". She IS an N --95%-- and that helps me to know what I am dealing with.
Alone, you are doing very well. Your former b/f reminds me of a book. 'Men Who Can't Love and the Woman who Love Them." I think that is the name. It was an amazing book. I bet yout former b/f would fit it very well.
Keep Writing. You are in the right place--the Board-- and THAT is what is important, friend. Love Ami
(((((((((Alone)))))))))))
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Yes, that is the book and I have it, have read it numerous times. My GF gave it to me after I met him. They are making a movie of it right now......to bad I didn't audition. He actually works in the movie industry so he would have been right there if called upon.
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I once knew a guy who fit perfectly with that book, Alone. They really know just how to make you fall for them-. They manipulate your emotions until you are crazy about them---very. That is a big part of the problem--trying to get "unhooked" I am really, really sorry Alone.
The yearning is horrible--like a drug craving. I understand better what you went through, Alone Love Ami
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Actually, I do have THAT book, but the one the movie is being made on is He's just not that into you. I have that one too. Should have read it more I guess. I wondered if he was an N or if it was the acting ability or better yet maybe they go hand in hand.
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I think the one,"He's not That In to You" is more about "normal " guys who woman keep chasing when they guy is not that interested. The other one is more about "pathology', as I understand it, anyway. Love Ami
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You're right and my GF got it for me at first because she thought he was just a normal guy I was chasing. After awhile she realized he was playing a game and told me she didn't think the book fit him. I believe my f,ex, and N all have that quality and don't particually like women (I don't know if I would go so far as to say Hate). Somewhere along the line they all feel they have been wronged by women or saw them as weak. N once asked me if I thought he was a mama's boy (he's 56) and kindly I said "no, I think you just are very caring towards you mother". HE WAS A MAMA'S BOY!!!!!!!!!!! i wish I has told him, but chicken me gave him an easy out. He uses this "closeness" with his mother to attract women who think he's caring and sensitive, but numerous times he told me he hated her........what a red flag.
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You're right and my GF got it for me at first because she thought he was just a normal guy I was chasing. After awhile she realized he was playing a game and told me she didn't think the book fit him. I believe my f,ex, and N all have that quality and don't particually like women (I don't know if I would go so far as to say Hate). Somewhere along the line they all feel they have been wronged by women or saw them as weak. N once asked me if I thought he was a mama's boy (he's 56) and kindly I said "no, I think you just are very caring towards you mother". HE WAS A MAMA'S BOY!!!!!!!!!!! i wish I has told him, but chicken me gave him an easy out. He uses this "closeness" with his mother to attract women who think he's caring and sensitive, but numerous times he told me he hated her........what a red flag.
Dear Alone.
I am sorry,but that Mama's Boy thing is funny. I think that you were sunk at ONE point---when you went to bed with him. If you hadn't,I think that you could have maintained your sense of objectivity. Am I right or not, Alone? Was that the point of 'no turning back" in your "addiction toward him? Ami
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It's funny becuase as I said before I had been in a marriage where there had been no intimacy for 10 years, so yes someone desiring me made all the difference in the world. He already knew that I could endure long periods without intimacy (it had come up in discussions). He actuall pursued me heavily calling everyday/in the name of business. I had accidentally returned a phone call when I was in the field, on my own private cell as the work one was dead, that's how he got my #. He told me once in the begining that he thought we would be friends for the next thirty years, I thought that was extremely odd. Also my son was in the movie industry and starting to make it somewhat, where N was in a fading career. He had always wanted a son, but only had two daughters. My son never took to him, he needed the spotlight too at 13 years old and in the industry so N didn't have much use for him He always tried to get close to my son, but the one thing I had enough sense to do was keep it separate. I thank God for that one.
He went from adoring my son to actually being jealous of him, it flucuated on his moods. He wanted me to take my son out of the private school he had been in since K and the final straw began when I got my son a car. He thinks he is a spoiled pampered brat. Maybe somewhat spoiled, but he is a caring, loving, and responsible son. All of this guidance was in the name of a "friend". Though he had alot of control over me, I don't think it was enough, I still did things against his will.
I think the guise of being a friend while he continued to act like a bf was the most confusing part. Everyone kept telling me "he told you he only wanted to be a friend, so what's wrong". After awhile they did see the inconsistencies in his actions, but still said HE told you you're only friends. That seemed to cover his bases pretty much. Though I know he wanted me to believe otherwise.....to string me along.
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It really sounds like the book, Men who Hate Woman and the Woman who Love Them"with all the "crazy making things--like 'just friends', after you were NOT just friends.
Wow, It really was a 'crazy making" situation ,for sure.
I am angry thinking of the way that he used your desires for connection to really, really hurt you. Sorry, Alone. Do you still feel "hooked" on him(down deep)? Ami
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Especially during the holidays. I have this image of him just going on his merry way and having a wonderful life, which I doubt is true since he has always been a very miserable person. Even his M tried to talk him into counseling, he briefly considered (about a second). I tried to tell him when it was over that he definetly had alot to offer if he would allow himself. I wrote a letter that was difficult, because I didn't want to make any accusations though I felt them at the time. I explained that he had been clear in not wanting a relationship and I couldn't fault him for that but I needed more. Also that You can't make someone feel what they don't feel and therefore I was moving on and wished the best for him He called my ex boss (they had golfed together) to share this intimate letter. This after him telling me he couldn't have sex with me again because I had shared the info with my gf.
Yes, Ami I do still care. Though I know what I care for never exisited. I was willing to work while he stayed home and hoped for another job. I would have done whatever, he caused it to end. He knew that I was starting to question things and want more from him, so he had to get rid of me.He loved the relationship on his terms.God works in mysterious ways.
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Wow, Alone. It is a really sad story of your emotions, needs, wants and dreams getting "hooked'. It is pitiful That was his MO,all the time--to hook you.
It is really heartbreaking,Alone. You "yearn" for those few moments with him when all the emotional things that you always wanted seemed close--bleh.
It is like a drug addiction, Alone.I can see why you have been suffering so much, Alone. I bet that you would still do anything(in your stupider moments ) to get him back. Am I right or not? Are you still at this place(in your heart)? Ami
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Oh, in answer to your question, it's not deep down it's very much on the surface and raw. I wish I could feel nothing for him or even anger, hopefully that comes soon.
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Would i do anything, no. I'm pretty much afraid of him and any contact. He is quite mean and vindictive. We have gone past the point of no return, his only purpose in contacting me would be to destroy me further. Do I want to contact him, most certainly. The only thing that keeps me from doing it, is knowing he will either hang up or totally lambaste me. Neither sounds like much fun. Right now I don't see much of a future, but everyone says that will change....I sure hope so. I did send him a text at Xmas, he chose to ignore it.
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Well, Alone,it sounds like you are getting out of the emotional "hooks" slowly. You are on the way out, anyway. What a lesson that was!I bet that you will never go through s/thing like that again, though. Ami
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It's funny everyone says the same thing, that I am on my way out. No, he chose to leave I have no option, but you're right it won't happpen again.Would I get him back if I could, probably. But fortunately he will not give me that oppurtunity. Did I learn anything, sure doesn't seem like it. Though I will never open myself up like that to anyone again.
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I know what I care for never exisited
Did I learn anything, sure doesn't seem like it. Though I will never open myself up like that to anyone again.
Hi Alone,
I think you learned a lot but the thing in bold, there, might be backward.
How would it be different for you if instead, it was:
I will never open myself up to anyone like that again.
?
love and healing to you,
Hops
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I guess I meant if I learned anything I wouldn't still want to be with him, I would run and be glad to be away from it. I know I need to be away just don't know what I would do if the oppurtunity still was there. Thank God for taking it away, it wasn't me.
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I do agree with not opening myself to someone LIKE that, but I don't even trust my judgement to determine who is like that anymore.
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I think that will change with time, too, Alone.
You need time to evaluate how all this happened, how you learned to choose someone like that, and anchor that learning so you'll trust your judgment again one day.
It does take time. And you're doing that work right here, and by reading, etc.
Don't give up on your future, just don't race toward it.
Being present in the present is the best thing, I think.
love
Hops
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Thanks Hops,
I sometimes feel like I'm going backward not forward. I use to think I had alot of friends and I do, but I am also so alone. Everyone I know is in realtionships are have large family involvement. I fit in before, but don't seem to anymore. My family seems to resent that I am no longer the strong family matriarch and would like to see me disappear at this point. I am now a problem, where before I was the solver of problems. I don't know that I want a relationship, but the reality of finding one at my age is very depressing too. I guess that's what I mean by nothing to look forward too. I know it can change everyday and truly I am grateful for the gifts I've been given. Not many people at my age could have easily found a new job and had the support I received, I KNOW THIS. Why can't I just be grateful for that? I know that he isn't done destroying me and the worse is yet to come. He truly becomes fixated on those he hates, I have seen it. I helped to defuse it against some, but there is no one to do that on my behalf.