Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gaining Strength on January 06, 2008, 11:55:41 PM
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I spoke with my brother today. He told me that my mother had called him and cried (perhaps figuratively but I don't know) because I refused to take her calls and would not see her. I was shocked to here this - truly shocked. My son and I visited her on Wednesday. He returned to school on Thursday and we had full schedules Friday evening and Saturday with plans to have lunch with her on Sunday. She will call 5, 6, 7 sometimes up to 9 times in very short period. I have asked her for years to leave messages and asked that she not call repeatedly - to no avail. Even today she was to call when she was out of church and we were to meet for lunch. She called at 10 after 12 and asked me to pick her up. My son and I were at the park playing with the dogs. Before we could walk home and get in the car she had called twice again. 15 minutes after the 1st call and again 10 minutes later. I simply refused to answer her calls.
My brother put it in a way that cut through the darkness for me. He said that she has a never ending need for attention.
A few weeks ago he helped me understand that she also has little respect for me because I am a daughter. That I fully get and am only surprised that I had not picked up on that on my own.
She expects me to be available to fill her every need. She, as all Ns, has absolutely no concern for my needs nor my child's needs.
I have figured this all out concerning my father several years ago and so my expectations with him are ZERO. But my mother appears to be half normal and so it has taken me a very long time to begin to come to terms with the fact that she is nothing short of an N.
I have had nothing but N's in my life. I have felt obligated to them and always felt that such obligation was noble in some way and would be repaid with the greatest gift. This fallacy has been my complete and utter downfall. And now that this looking glass has been shattered I must find a completely different vision of who I am and who I am to become.
I will say again what I have said here many times before: To have only been in relationship with Ns is to have never been alive; it is to have been a slave and then released without any knowledge nor resources for providing food nor shelter; it is a living hell where moving forward is only possible because there is simply no other direction except to refuse to move at all.
I have a voice but my voice feels so worthless and it seems to sound only in the wilderness even here where I had hoped to find a sounding board for my voice.
I won't give up - though there are times when it seems it would be so much easier. I won't give up but I am struck by how difficult, by how much energy it actually takes to move out of the state I am in into a state where life is fulfilling and rewarding.
For so long I thought that when I got to the place that I am now - having made significant progress in understanding who I am and how I came to be who I am and having some control over my rage and other emotions - that life would begin to flow, that things would begin to get easier that there would be order and work and friends and some without extraordinary work and determination but it simply is not so.
I refuse to give up but I had so hoped that there would be some ease in life that some part of it would come without constant, persistent, relentless pursuit.
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Teartracks - thanks for that article. I have never come across that perspective before and it felt great - very healing to read that professionals recognize the very powerful effects of living with an N. Thank you. - GS
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Besee - thanks for your reply. That wonderful energy wand sound perfect. That is exactly what I need - an energy transformation.
Strangely enough I am much stronger than at any time in my life - without question. I am definitely still working hard on the first 2 Agreements. (Agreement 2 is perhaps the most transforming for my life.) I have really fallen off the EFT wagon. My biggest struggle with EFT is the suggestion that the more specific you can be with the emotional injury the more successful the tapping. But my wounds were not individual events, my wounds were the ocean resulting from the individual drops of criticism, rejection, projection, shaming, withholding, neglect, blah, blah blah. So I don't seem to be able to get to THE issue under the particular problem. How are you able to get to THE emotional issue behind a problem?
I'm in a better place than I sound but I am at a plateau. I am tired from the endless work, the endless struggle to get to ground zero. Without question I am on solid ground emotionally but the rest of my life is not falling into place. My purposeful work these days is to transform my inner image into one that reflects where I want to be. I have held this image of rejection and failure for most of my life and it is that image and that energy that I must transform. I am trying to reshape that inner image I carry of myself, to transform that inner sense of not deserving what I want, of being simply "undeserving'. I am sort of disappointed at how much energy it takes to make that transformation because life is very draining for me right now and it feels much like the double bind that i grew up in in the House of N. I need energy to get to where I want to be but life is so draining that i don't have enough energy to just keep up much less move ahead.
Plus there are times that I find that it is helpful to "dump" here, i.e. let out the dark side and the frustrations. I have no where else to do that and here I can let them out and sometimes receive just the support and encouragement I need to move forward.
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GS-I understand this not knowing what THE issue is when you live with constant scrutiny and never measure up. I was thinking about myself as a young woman and how I was promiscuous-why? Then I realized that I was looking for love. But it worked against me because I just felt like a whore and that does not do much for your self esteem. I am looking forward to the new book by Dr McBride-Will I ever be good enough? She actually interviewed me for the book. I think I will have my mom read it.
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I wonder if she will see herself in it? But I totally understand you GS-You and I had the same type of upbringing so I feel we can walk hand in hand through the mine fields. How old are you again and when was your N ah ha moment? It would be good to see how many years you are into your recovery. I feel with every year I get stronger and more determined to note forward.
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GS,
I so feel for you. You have described my years with my mother (the insatiable calls, demands for attention that never "feeds" or assuages her because one bit of attention leads to a bottomless list of demands for more). To a T.
I'll tell you when it changed. One night, when she was calling/calling/calling...I tried a different tack, which was to approach her from her OWN reality (that she doesn't get enough attention).
I went and sat with her and said, with sympathy:
You know, you are right. You deserve so much more time and attention than I am able to give you. I know it's not enough, and you really deserve much more. But I've come to realize that I just can't do it. I simply can't give you all the attention you deserve. And I'm sorry. But it's the truth. I love you, and I'm going upstairs now.
She was briefly silenced. I had to repeat it a few times, but over months, something sank in, because for the first time in my life, she behaved as though she expected somewhat less.
Hope that might help you, GS.
It was a startling change. I just "entered her world" and addressed her needs from inside that view.
love,
Hops
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Dear Hops,
That was a powerful post. I am opening up to the power of love,in my own life. I had a similar experience with my S(on a much smaller level)
He likes to talk to me about ALL the details of his job and life. It is good, but s/times it gets really 'long" . I told hiim that all the details were important to me ,but right now, I was not in a good space to listen. When I emphasized HOW important it was, he relaxed and said,"OK, Mom, I will come back ,later."
I affirmed and loved him and that was the healer. It is a small lesson, but a similar one.
I am just starting to learn the power of love to change people's lives and my own. Ami
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Dear GS,
I see s/thing beyond the "ideas" in your thread. I hear your voice in the strongest way I have ever heard it before. You are defining the issue in a very clear and direct way. You are seeing how and why you are the way you are. I think that you have more strength than you ever had.
I think that you have passed some point of being a 'victim" and are now on the road ,out.
I hear a new tone in our voice--strength and clarity. Do you agree, GS? You may be hurting( and probably are),but it seems like the strength is new and it will propel you forward.
Maybe,my viewpoint is wrong,but that is how I read the unspoken parts of your thread. Let me know what you think, GS. Love Ami
(((((((((((((GS)))))))))))
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Dear Gaining Strength,
It's all those expectations which kill me, one emotional cell at a time.
Examining and adjusting my own expectations (of myself and others) and then clarifying others' expectations of me is my own business at hand. Have you ever tried to get a straight answer from a loved one as to what she/he expects of you?
With the N'ish, it's nearly impossible, I've found... and I think that's because they don't want the shoe to be on the other foot, which would translate to your being allowed to have expectations of some reciprocity from them.
I know how endlessly difficult this feels, GS... but I also think you sound very determined and strong, and I hope you continue to feel able to purge some of that dark side here on the board. It really does help.
Love to you,
Carolyn
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Dear GS,
I want to echo what Carolyn has said. The board helps us to find our voice. I have made many errors along the way. They are there for all to see(in the archives----lol) ,but, I am failing my way to success, you could say.
When our voice has been squelcehed ,since we were young,it is not the "prettiest" thing in the world to try to get it back. It does not go from "dead" and squelched to beautiful and shining in a linear ascent. No, it is embarrassing along the way---bleh.
I was always afraid of making mistakes,but I am getting "cured' of that one too, the more mistakes that I make(lol)
GS, Keep defining who you are and what you feel, by writing on the board.. As you find your voice(core), you will heal(IMO). Love Ami
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Ami - something you said helps me get a handle on where I am today. I am not hurting but I am tired I am so very, very tired.
Hops I am always thankful for you comments. I feel heard by you and understood. I will keep your experience in mind until I find the right expression of that. I don't so much need anything from her except that I find a way to not get sucked in by her neediness. I have a fatherless son who does need me and who should need me and should expect that I meet his needs. Part of my struggle with my mother is that not only does she demand from me but she simply refuses to acknowledge that I need support and help in providing for my young son. Instead of acknowledging that my obligation and responsibility is for my son she in a N way is self-centeredly asking for 100% of my attention. But only when she isn't otherwise occupied.
Overcomer - The one thing that I continue to hope for you is that you get to a place where you give up hoping or expecting for your mother to get it. Even if she does read the book she won't get it. It's not possible for a person in a state of Nism to get it. It is impossible for them to care or have empathy for anyone else - even (and maybe especially) their own flesh and blood.
As long as we hope for that insight to dawn in them we remained hooked, our lives dependent on their getting it. Only when we let go of them can we really claim our lives. To me, this is the most extremely difficult task of someone growing up with one or two N parents.
CH - you've nailed it. It is functioning under the unexpressed expectations that has killed me. When I am able to identify and call by name these expectations then I am able to unharness myself from them. The phone conversation from my brother actually brought to light this expectation that somehow had remained unidentified by me. The Ns expectations are malicious and self-centered and they shift. But if we are engaged with an N we are functioning in response to them. The description of this mechanism is the best part of Nina Brown's (otherwise unoriginal) book Children of the Self Absorbed.
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Thanks, GS.
When I had that lightbulb moment it was when I realized how irrational an N's needs are.
It was during a period when I'd been spending MORE time with her. (Sitting with her for a meal, taking her on errands, and checking in by phone...all in one day.) I was trying to "fill" her needs. She got more and more fretful and wound up literally saying, but I get so little time with you.
It hit me all at once. I was almost "stirring a pot" by being so attentive. It only fed her craving.
So that was my first experience in setting a clear firm boundary by saying firmly, sympathetically, No, it's terrible I agree, but I just can't do it. It wasn't rational to agree with her, but I realized that I needed to irrationally agree with her inner vision.
(You can't "disagree" with how someone feels. And that's how she felt. Starving.)
I know it's complicated when you need her help, but if it's any encouragement, my mother never comingled her battles with me with neglect of my child. She loves my daughter and was always eager to help her.
Hoping some of this helps,
Hops
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My M is wonderful to my children, as well. Ami
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Besee - I have gone back to EFT today thanks to you.
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I have s/thing really interesting to tell you about EFT. You can be reversed. If so, you have to say the affirmation in a different way. If EFT does not seem to work, you could be reversed. That happened to me until s/one helped me.
For example, the person was trying to help with stomach aches. The usual affirmation is "Even though I have a stomach ache, I love and value myself.
If you are reversed( really wanting to hang on to it), you say,'Even though I WANT to hang on to this stomach ache,I love and value myself.
It worked when she reversed it. Hope this helps. Ami
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I am going to try to be consistent with it. I read about someone who practiced EFT every day for 6 months to get over something. It may take me that long because my stuckedness is not from an event but from a lifetime of repeated N activity. It is definitely difficult to get at the issue when there is a long period of repetition.
I woke up with a severe bronchial infection - very difficult to breath. Tried EFT on it and came up with some of the same old stuff but clearly unresolved. One of the big ones is that dastardly sense of "inadequacy".
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Ami that makes a lot of sense. I have a feeling that I am holding onto this "inadequacy" so that someone (that would still be mother and/or father) will nurture me (rescue me). I'll definitely try the "reversal". Thanks for the suggestion.
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Last night was a very, very difficult night. My asthma and bronchial infection continued to worsen. At one point I was afraid that I would have to go to the E Room. I kept "tapping" and using visualizations of healing and whole lungs. All to no avail. My breathing worsened. I finally tried some old inhalers and after a while found relief. As I lay in bed waiting for my breathing to improve and the wheezing to abate I calmed my mind and tried some mediatation.
Throughout the night and then in the morning I found myself flat up against the wall of "inadequecy". Does this underlie my anxiety or does the anxiety exacerbate the sense of inadequecy? They seem to work hand in hand to spiral out of control and together impair my already low functioning executive function.
I have dealt with this powerfully debilitating sense of "inadequecy" for some time. It does not stand alone. It exists with a whole group of related despairing attributes like condemnation, rejection that are the results of having two N parents and subsequent N or Nish relationships with spouces and "friends".
There is so much about this that is similar to the "shame" I worked through last year and yet there is a subtle difference. I find that these issues come back to me over and over to be pared away - each time bringing me closer to a healing.
Because I am a great believer in the Prayer attributed to St. Francis I am chosing as part of a therapeutic solution to hold each of my parents image in love. This by no means suggests that I hope to have a loving and meaningful relationship with them. But it does mean that by holding their images in a spirit of love that I expect to "unhook" me from the dark emotional ties to them. I firmly believe that the way to do this is through love and forgiveness.
As I lay in the bed this morning trying desparately to get myself out of the bed to feed and dress my son and get him to school I found myself racked with fear perpetrated by an overwhelming sense of unworthiness, of being judged and criticized and alone without the necessary resources to do what is expected and needed of me.
I need help. I need conversation with anyone here who has found a way to address these issues of severe damage from the N parent and to find a way to heal these wounds and move into a productive and functional life. Exacerbating this whole thing for me is the severely impaired executive function for me. This impairment has two possible sources - ADHD (neurotransmitter problems) and at age 6 I fell over the banister and landed face first - possibly damaging my frontal lobe.
I get caught in a bind here. If I had money there are several things that I would do - remove the mercury fillings in my teeth, have a PET scan or fMRI to identify the areas of function and disfunction in my brain and whatever else I could do to address these issues. Of course money is THE significant destabilizing issue for me. It is THE tool that my N father has used to control me. he actually told my oldest brother that a few months ago. And my mother, who has several million dollars is too afraid of running out to be willing to help me in a meaningful way. She offers periodically to pay for this or that but she does not offer me money to get the things fixed and taken care of so that the extraordinary pressure is taken off of me. And until I get some relief from the sever disabling executive function problem I am not able to provide an income for my son and myself. These financial issues are just another double bind that my life with N parents is racked with.
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Dearest GS - I felt like you were describing my life. The destabilizing money issue, the absent or weak executive function (by that, I take it to mean your "adult" or "protective mechanism, which is how I think of it - that part of myself which makes decisions good for me, that I can rely on to come thru for me, for example, in a job interview) which I have had all my life.
I learned that my weak adult was a result of being so controlled by my N parents; the inadequacy you described I learned came from forbidden memories of always being told I was "not enough" or "not as good as...", in addition to explicit statements that I was "stupid, dumb, or other epithets to a child's self-esteem. I was never allowed to make decisions for myself growing up. There were the rules I had to follow, conform to, even if many of them were unknown or hidden, and those were the ones I found only by violating them. I could never go my own way, and, with my NM's current threats to write me out of her will if I embarrass her in any way, still feel constricted by her. She, like your NM, is sitting on millions and will not give me a dime. If I go broke and have to go live with a friend, it will be an embarrassment for her, and the wall will fall.
The fatigue is an ever-present sign of giving more than you can afford to give. A therapist once told me, "You cannot go to the aid of another unless your own personal gas tank is full." Sounds like you've been running on fumes for a while.
You are in my thoughts.
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Dear GS,
I am so sorry. I feel heartbroken over what you have shared. It is a long climb up from N abuse. I wish I had an easy answer .If I did,I would be well by now(lol).
I am so sorry. I do not want to offer empty platitudes so I will just say that I love you and I care. Love Ami
((((((((((((((GS))))))))))))))))))))))
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I am sorry, towrite. I am very sorry , dear friend. Love , Ami
((((((((((((towrite))))))))))))0
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(((((((((((((((GS)))))))))))))
It's like an onion... each layer gets peeled away. You have been peeling steadily. But I think between each layer there is a bit of tearing and stinging.
You know yourself that you are growing so much GS. As for your mother's demands, keep doing what you are doing - setting boundaries. Can you set stricter rules and enforce them? I have no doubt you are tired of having to do this.
Take care of yourself, GS, and rest... Try to let the incessant noise wash over you - like a white noise that gives peace and relaxation... can you somehow set it as a background chatter?????
Love, Beth
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Thanks Beth - I think you are right. It definitely helps to see this period as part of the healing process. Keeping that in mind helps me withstand the difficult and painful portion.
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I keep tapping on this asthma and bronchial infection. It's not helping my physical ailment but I am getting a handle on my emotional blocks. I have a huge expectation of critical judgement as a result of being raised by N parents. I expect critcism, I expect rejection, I expect failure. That is what I knew for so long and sadly that is what I internalized. I am going to continue to face this and to reprogram my misfunctioning, ingrained, thought patterns.
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Ami - something you said helps me get a handle on where I am today. I am not hurting but I am tired I am so very, very tired.
Hops I am always thankful for you comments. I feel heard by you and understood. I will keep your experience in mind until I find the right expression of that. I don't so much need anything from her except that I find a way to not get sucked in by her neediness. I have a fatherless son who does need me and who should need me and should expect that I meet his needs. Part of my struggle with my mother is that not only does she demand from me but she simply refuses to acknowledge that I need support and help in providing for my young son. Instead of acknowledging that my obligation and responsibility is for my son she in a N way is self-centeredly asking for 100% of my attention. But only when she isn't otherwise occupied.
Overcomer - The one thing that I continue to hope for you is that you get to a place where you give up hoping or expecting for your mother to get it. Even if she does read the book she won't get it. It's not possible for a person in a state of Nism to get it. It is impossible for them to care or have empathy for anyone else - even (and maybe especially) their own flesh and blood.
As long as we hope for that insight to dawn in them we remained hooked, our lives dependent on their getting it. Only when we let go of them can we really claim our lives. To me, this is the most extremely difficult task of someone growing up with one or two N parents.
CH - you've nailed it. It is functioning under the unexpressed expectations that has killed me. When I am able to identify and call by name these expectations then I am able to unharness myself from them. The phone conversation from my brother actually brought to light this expectation that somehow had remained unidentified by me. The Ns expectations are malicious and self-centered and they shift. But if we are engaged with an N we are functioning in response to them. The description of this mechanism is the best part of Nina Brown's (otherwise unoriginal) book Children of the Self Absorbed.
Dear Beth,
You're really `speaking to me' with this topic, and I can totally identify with your struggle with your mother's unstated expectations of you, as well as the fear of punishment for `failing' to meet them.
Wouldn't you just love to have a family meeting, where your mother came clean about her widely varying expectations of everyone? In my family, the conversation would go something like this:
`ok, boys, by token of your gender, I regard you as superior to your sisters, so I will love you no matter what you do. It would be pretty good if you said I was pretty as often as possible, treated your girlfriends casually, and did my bidding to get your troublesome sisters into line sometimes. But apart from those little terms, you can carry on as you were.'
`Now, girls, you fall into one of three categories: you are grossly inferior to myself, and deserving of ongoing verbal flaggilation and slavery, you are my clone, or you are my competition, ok? If you are my inferior, which is any female who is not perfection personified, as I define it, you are to creep around as my inferior, and preferably act as my hand-maiden. You are to take my criticisms good naturedly, and do my bidding according my shifting emotional needs. At the end of the day, you are an emotional prop- someone who constantly reminds me of my superiority, constantly praises me for existing, and who always regurgitates my actions back to me in a favourable light. Do not presume yourself to be worthy of better treatment, or you're out of the will, ok?
If you happen to outshine me, by token of intelligence, beauty, success, then you may choose, also, to be my hand-maiden which would further my sense of superiority. However, if you fail in this, then understand that you are my competition and will be treated as such. Its basically war. If war doesn't get you into line, then I will cease all contact with you.'
Now to those of you who are my clone, I will dictate your every thought and action, or you may act alone so long as they are actions that i would take myself. Failure to comply will result in further attempts to clone you, or eventual abandonment for failing. You were my best hope! I have the highest of expectations of you!
SO how would the conversation go in your family, Beth, if it were all revealed openly?
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`Now, girls, you fall into one of three categories: you are grossly inferior to myself, and deserving of ongoing verbal flaggilation and slavery, you are my clone, or you are my competition, ok? If you are my inferior, which is any female who is not perfection personified, as I define it, you are to creep around as my inferior, and preferably act as my hand-maiden. You are to take my criticisms good naturedly, and do my bidding according my shifting emotional needs. At the end of the day, you are an emotional prop- someone who constantly reminds me of my superiority, constantly praises me for existing, and who always regurgitates my actions back to me in a favourable light. Do not presume yourself to be worthy of better treatment, or you're out of the will, ok?
If you happen to outshine me, by token of intelligence, beauty, success, then you may choose, also, to be my hand-maiden which would further my sense of superiority. However, if you fail in this, then understand that you are my competition and will be treated as such. Its basically war. If war doesn't get you into line, then I will cease all contact with you.'
Now to those of you who are my clone, I will dictate your every thought and action, or you may act alone so long as they are actions that i would take myself. Failure to comply will result in further attempts to clone you, or eventual abandonment for failing. You were my best hope! I have the highest of expectations of you!
Oh my goodness, Bella
You have perfectly described my mother!
and ....
`ok, boys, by token of your gender, I regard you as superior to your sisters, so I will love you no matter what you do. It would be pretty good if you said I was pretty as often as possible, treated your girlfriends casually, and did my bidding to get your troublesome sisters into line sometimes. But apart from those little terms, you can carry on as you were.'
that's my brother! My brother did have to do one turn in the house, not one thing, I had to be his slave also, he was younger, yet superior, and the priviledges he had.
The validation is priceless, though the impact leaves me a little stunned and lost for words. Thank you.
Love, Leah
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Dear Leah,
Isn't the worst part of all, as a child especially, the fact that the expectations are never stated? If they were expressed honestly and openly, everyone would see them to be sexist, abusive, selfish, and grossly unrealistic- a total denial of humanity and freedom based on gender. Family members would roll their eyes and cry a resounding `no' to these insane terms (you would hope!)
...Which is probably why `the expectations' are expressed not in words, that people could challenge, but in the form of `moods' , `punishments' , `abandonment' `criticism' `with-holding praise' `sibling favoritism' and other ambient abuse. That how they are expressed in our family, anyhow.
Sorry if my post was a bit `hard hitting' though. Its a very triggering topic isn't it?
X bella
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Dear Bella,
Oh, my wrong choice of word, impact ~ should have used validating really, for it was the 'wow factor' of someone else speaking of my family experience so accurately, because, that does not happen in real life situation.
...Which is probably why `the expectations' are expressed not in words, that people could challenge, but in the form of `moods' , `punishments' , `abandonment' `criticism' `with-holding praise' `sibling favoritism' and other ambient abuse. That how they are expressed in our family, anyhow.
Yes, that is my family. And also, added to which, my NM she also had the clever skill of giving out subjective subliminal statements and comments, double meanings, of which I detest, as really, in essence it smacks of deception, well to me it does.
Really, never knew whether I was coming or going, or had been!!! Mind boggling!
.......... when I passed my exams it when unnoticed, as the eldest, my exams came first of course, then my brother, he passed his exams, and there was a special meal, with a cake, card and gift. Of course, as I was destined for a life of 'Maude the Mule' evidently, my efforts were discounted. But, 'Maude' broke free and escaped!!! Which must have been a big shock, for them.
Nothing was expressed honestly and openly with my family, the meaning is meaningless to them, or alien!
Thanks again for sharing of your family experience, very much valued.
Love, Leah
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You're the eldest too, Leah? Same with me!. My two brothers are younger too.
I think I was supposed to be something I don't yet understand, lol. All I know is that I failed; I think maybe i was supposed to be the clone? I am glad I am not!
That story of how your mother celebrated your brother's exams, but not yours, was so typical in our house. My mother would even make `special meals' for her sons at night, and feed the girls left-overs or `quick food'. They were not disciplined and would stay up all night if they wished, but girls were heavily disciplined and always put to bed at 6pm!
I know that sounds kinda trivial, but it used to make me feel so angry.
X bella
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Leah,
I love mules.
They're smart, resilient, strong, and have an excellent kick.
They win the hearts of those who appreciate them.
love,
Hops
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Dear Bella,
As the eldest, I was always told just that, my siblings were my responsibility, as I was the eldest (or just 'first born' as per father). Sadly, my sister was a clone of my mother, which truly saddens me, even though she has wronged me, as I loved her. So, in that sense, I am truly grateful to be the eldest as 'Maude the Mule' as the alternative is not one I would relish.
Oh, my goodness, the meals; my brother would get steak and I would get fish fingers!! (mind you I prefer fish, maybe, that's why!). My brother could not even cook an egg, and never made a cup of tea, that was 'Maude's' job, and he had to have his favorite biscuits, which was in 'his biscuits tin' separate to the family biscuit tin. Honestly. The reality is, that to me then at that time, I simply thought that this was the norm.
Staying up to watch television was allowed for my brother, as sport programmes were vital for his life, whereas, I was packed off to bed, mind you, I was always tired and happy to go anyway, simply because the peace was a respite and haven.
Sounds like life in previous centuries, odd thing is, still ongoing today in many families, I feel sure.
Love, Leah
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Thank you Hops
Deep down, I will always be good old 'Maude' but without the doormat! :)
I feel sorry for Mules and Donkeys, they get so abused by humankind.
There used to be a small Donkey sanctuary which apparently has closed due to lack of funds :(
Love, Leah
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Oh Leah!!! I relate so well!!
This was my list of jobs for most of childhood, 7 and up:
Do about an hours worth of chores (feeding pets and cleaning up etc). Boys did no chores.
Make breakfast for my brothers, and then ask them what they wanted for school lunch, and make that too!!!
I was always served last at dinner time!!
My brothers were given `allowances' and allowed to live at home and this continued into their thirties!! Girl children (except youngest sister clone) had to work if they wanted money (not necessarily a bad thing, but the favouritism!!), and were asked to elave home at 17 years of age.
I suppose I should feel lucky I wasn't born in China though. I might not have been given the gift of life at all!!!
It amazes me too, that the western world is so backward in some families.
X bella
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Leah, Bella,
I am shocked and saddened by this...you were not only second-class because of your gender but practically house slaves.
Hops
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Dear sweet Hops; thanks for those words.
I consider it all in the past, stuff like that, but I'm examining its impact probably more now than ever before.
One revelation that hit me hard, was realizing that I have probably internalized a kind of reverence for male-like traits over feminine ones. Maybe I am kind of sexist in my own way, because I was always a tom boy, and I have SO much trouble accepting my body along with its curves, fat, and other `evidence' of femininity. In our family the word `fat' refers to any body shape that is not male-like so of course the standards are terrible, and its really hard to be a bigger woman (which I tend to be on and off). I've been fighting the shame for years, and it is hard to shift. Sometimes I think I've nailed it, but then sometimes my poor partner has to listen to my drivilling self-abuse over my `ugliness'. It freaks me out a bit, the way i sink right back into that place of shame.
I'm also left wondering if its affected my choices surrounding children? I mean if I was taught that women are so worthless, then surely our biological functions would fall into that category?. I am still considering this as another possible impact.
X Bella
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Dear Leah, Oh thats so awful of your father. My mother divorced my father when I was 4 (& remarried a greek man with two daughters). So i don't know what he thought!!! Maybe he would have preferred a son first? My second father (I am so lucky to have 2), is ver positive minded. He would never criticize or ever hurt anyone.
I've been getting to know my birth father much better in recent years, and he's a good influence in my life. He and his wife are `my other family'. If want to know how families should make you feel, all I have to do is spend time with them. I look forward to it SO much, and we exchange emails every week.
Whats your father like Leah?? Would you consider him to be an N, or just tactless?
X bella
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Dear Leah, Oh thats so awful of your father. My mother divorced my father when I was 4 (& remarried a greek man with two daughters). So i don't know what he thought!!! Maybe he would have preferred a son first? My second father (I am so lucky to have 2), is ver positive minded. He would never criticize or ever hurt anyone.
I've been getting to know my birth father much better in recent years, and he's a good influence in my life. He and his wife are `my other family'. If want to know how families should make you feel, all I have to do is spend time with them. I look forward to it SO much, and we exchange emails every week.
Whats your father like Leah?? Would you consider him to be an N, or just tactless?
X bella
Dear Bella,
Oh, that is truly wonderful for you, that you have the 'other family.' That's so precious for you, and I am truly glad to know.
He still ticks lots of NFlags. His number one priority in life is, himself. Always has been, and is increasingly so, to the point of extremism. Serenity has helped me to accept that he will never change. Presently, limited contact by telephone, with firm boundries.
My father detests the word 'no' always has done, and always will. The ownership of that issue belongs to him.
He has always been negative. And my being a positive person rubs him up the wrong way, and usually, he kicks off, on the telephone.
Example:
Father > "It is very cold outside today"
Me >> "Have you been out today, do you really need to go out today?"
Father > "No I am staying indoors today"
Me >> "You have a wonderful heating system and your home is lovely and warm, as you look outside, you can enjoy the glow of the warmth"
Father > "You always have something good to say" "Goodbye, I am going now"
Just one of the many many reasons that Limited Contact is best, for me!
Love, Leah
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Holy cow. Whats with these people? Why does every conversation have to be a downer, a vent session, and a guilt trip? I agree that its negative, and it drags a person down, to engage with that. I wonder if the negativity is part of the way they try to make others feel guilty??? And if you refuse to engage with that, you are somehow evading their agenda? It makes you wonder!
My mother is the N in our family, but second generation (her mother was `extreme'). I'm not sure about my mother; I think a lot of her behavior is unconscious, but she doesn't want to be called on it so theres no real distinction, in reality. I still need my boundaries, and she still acts like a somatic N. I just don't think she knows why. I even think she holds out hope that she CAN change, and I don't have the heart to dash her hopes. Maybe she can. Its not for me to say. Overall, I get the sense she operates from the position of her mother's voice,, not her own, if that makes sense. That gives me an odd sort of compassion for her.
So is you mother `more' N'ish than your father, leah? Do you consider her somatic or cerebral? Is her mother worse?
X bella
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Holy cow. Whats with these people? Why does every conversation have to be a downer, a vent session, and a guilt trip? I agree that its negative, and it drags a person down, to engage with that. I wonder if the negativity is part of the way they try to make others feel guilty??? And if you refuse to engage with that, you are somehow evading their agenda? It makes you wonder!
Dear Bella,
Exactly! Thank you for the precious validation. As my NFather's role in life is to make other's feel guilty, full stop. Especially, if they do not take on board his quest for life, i.e. misery. Every time. He will end the conversation with a "goodbye, I am going now"
Oh, I forgot to mention, he would quickly follow with a "YOU can ring me tomorrow" which is against my set boundary, and he knows that.
He must be rattled afterward when I remind him respectfully with grace, that I won't be ringing him tomorrow. The ownership of reaction to my reaffirming my boundary, belongs to him, not I. For he alone is the reason for having to have such a set boundary in the first place.
Never, not once, and I have sat here long and hard and reflected; has he said anything joyful. If I express myself in my usual fairly positively joyful way, he will ask me what I have got to be so joyful about? Sometimes followed by a disgusting; "you must have a man there!"
Truth is that the very reason that I am so joyful is exactly the opposite, no man, no NHusband !! :)
I have begun to realize that he has to enmesh, he has to intrude, to survive.
Amazing to realize this. Thank you so much for this discussion as it has been, it is, extremely helpful and enlightening, most beneficial indeed.
Thankfully, we can choose our friends in life! FOO are thrust upon us without a choice!
Thanks so very much for this, and I do sincerely hope that your day goes well in all you do.
Love, Leah
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Leah, I'm so impressed with the way you're setting boundaries with your father. Your tone, choice of words, and your courage are an inspiration to me.
Do you still get `nerves' when you know your (appropriate) reaction puts you in his `bad books'?? Do they pass? I still struggle with that, with my mother. I feel on edge, like something bad is going to happen. I find it hard to `sit' with this feeling.
X bella
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((((((((Leah, Bella))))))))))
Bella,
The "shame " thing about ourselves is so horrible. I don't know WHAT,exactly, I have shame about. I am afraid that it is everything(lol). I think that it is following me like Pig Pen's(Charlie Brown) cloud.
I am just facing it now, with the help of a friend sent from Heaven, I think.
I have the courage to face the shame that has been "driving "me for my whole life. I was not fighting people,but this shame.
It is so painful.
Just to look at it is a first step. To admit it is another step.
I am trying to see the role that it plays ,in my life.
I know that it is causing my stomach problems b/c I am trying to "'identify" the thought I have right before my stomach hurts. It is usually some form of "exposure" of s/thing that I do wrong(or some way that I AM wrong--bleh)
Then ,I will get an immediate stomach ache. Thinking of my friend visiting will give me a stomach ache b/c I feel "exposed"( my house AND myself)
When I, objectively, think about my house,it is fine. It is clean and basically OK. It is my shame about that is the problem. It is the fear of ridicule that I am trying to push away ,all the time. I am fighting with my own shame ---nothing else.
Ami
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Leah, I'm so impressed with the way you're setting boundaries with your father. Your tone, choice of words, and your courage are an inspiration to me.
Do you still get `nerves' when you know your (appropriate) reaction puts you in his `bad books'?? Do they pass? I still struggle with that, with my mother. I feel on edge, like something bad is going to happen. I find it hard to `sit' with this feeling.
X bella
Dear Bella,
Amazingly, no I don't, not anymore. Being firm, assertive, can be done with grace, diplomacy and respect. However, it certainly did take a lot of courage. With wobbly knees!! :) Christmas, my boundary was retained, with ease and peace. Which was precious and confidence building.
The feeling of dread regarding thoughts of being in his 'bad book' does fade, truly, it does, with time and practice. I am amazed at where I stand now should I look back.
Now, the situation would be entirely different, still, I believe, if I were to be talking about boundaries with my mother. All my life I have had a real deep fear of my mother, for valid reasons, with my stomach churning, and legs and arms shaking. My mother always had me on edge and I would sense that she was working on something sometimes, and other times, not. However, No Contact with my mother, after fleeing from her house. So, she cannot harm me now. I am free of harm; free and staying free.
The decision to go No Contact with my mother was the right decision, as I could not take anymore. NC has completely changed my life.
Well, Bella, do hope you have a great weekend, along with your lovely partner.
Love, Leah
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Dear Leah!! I've read a lot of your posts this morning (its Sunday morning here) and you are so uplifting! I just love the wisdom in your posts, and I love your attitude and writing style too! Just wanted to let you know that its a nice start to the day, and thankyou!
Yep, my mother is the one who causes my stomach to churn too. My whole childhood was spent being punshed or wounded by her, and then apologising to her over and over, trying to make my fear go away.
I decided around 6 months ago that I wanted to cut contact down to once every couple of months or so. I got it down to about once a month (she called, not me), but she is upset. She's had three family members call me to tell me to call her more, and now `the story' is I `don't talk to her'. Our conversations now are part guilt-trip, part `reeling-in' type of behaviour via charm and support. She can be VERY generous and kind during the reeling -in phase, and its hard not to fall for it.
She didn't send a christmas or B'day present this year (first time ever, to show her displeasure), and then had second thoughts, I guess, and sent a card and gift a week later. I know i should call and thank her, but I haven't. I talked to her Christmas day, and its too soon to talk again, for me.
Thanks for listening Leah!!! My partner and I are very tired, a bit unhealthy at the moment, and a bit grumpy too, and need a holiday! We are going away next Wed for a week of hiking, and hopefully it will be good for us. We need a `reset' if that makes sense.
Love to you leah!
x bella