Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: lighter on January 09, 2008, 10:50:57 AM
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I know I've come a looooong way since I was 20 yo.
I know I've been several altogether different people.
Some were more neurotic than others..... I can say the early twenties ME was more hostile, even if I knew it was coming from inside of me.... I knew it was my problem and didn't altogether blame others.
I certainly fired warning shots like,
"look, I'm broken and I have a lot of healing to do so don't go falling in love and making this any messier than it has to be."
These were words I spoke to very nice men, who wanted marriage and babies :shock:
I knew I wasn't ready and I felt it was fair to let them know right up front. I didn't want to waste their time or my own. Saying it outright seemed like the best route, though I know it's not the prettiest or nicest. Not sure how else to do that but still working on it.
I did forgive the people I was angry at, eventually..... mostly.
I moved through and beyond that anger and into some heahltier spaces.
I can't know how healthy that space is, however.
I'm just too close to it.
Like in the T's office..... 90% is about how on target I am and how normal my responses are.... assigning cause without blame and just following a trail of facts.
That's comforting to me.... facts and their discussion.
But there's 10% that let's me know, for sure, that I still have work to do on me (which I assumed) but it makes me wonder how much my past influences my thoughts and actions.... frustrates me and makes me scared.
I don't want to dance to the tune of some organ grinding monkey from 17 years ago.
I want to be able to hear the music of this present day and respond that that.
Also.... if we don't realize we're responding to past dysfunction and hurt..... we're still neurotic, even if we don't know or want to admit it.
Why is it so hard to hear other people's opinions about that?
Why do some take it and run with it.... turn it into growth and healing?
Why do others feel wouded and spend all their energy feeling/acting injured and attacked, as opposed to any other response they could choose?
And it is a choice, IMO.
I've been so overwhelmed in my life that I can understand not being able to look at something else that causes pain.
I undstand that too.
I just have this drive to solve solve solve, even if it causes more pain in the present.... I want the pay off of more serenity in the future.
Sorry so long, RM; )
Had to come out in all it's length and girth, lo.
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The answer to the thread title is YES, I'm neurotic...... but what do I do with the information I seek about that?
If I am truly seeking to overcome and not just play in the puddle, bc it's familiar or seems less painful to stay than go.....
How do I keep growing through it?
I can't, unless I'm open to hearing judgements and opinions from those who are distant enough to have some perspective.
I don't have to like everything I hear..... I don't have to accept it as the truth..... but I do have to consider the source, determine if the person giving their input is sincere then appreciate that they've taken the time to gift their honesty, no matter how I feel about it.
What I can't make sense of?
I can file away or review later, when it might make more sense.
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My one line answer would be if a person can face everything about themselves and their life,honestly, they would NOT be neurotic. Being neurotic is directly proportional to how much we lie to ourselves(IMO) Ami
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Although I could not get through the entire post, Lighter, my answer to your question is, yes, if a person is neurotic but doesn't know it, they are still neurotic.
I've experienced this a few times with people who had personality disorders. they refused to admit it, but it did not make it less so.
In fact, in MOST cases, people with mental/psych illnesses, don't see it or won't see it.
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Shunned..... exactly right.
Even if we have a willingness to face it.... it's still there, tapping us on the shoulder demanding attention.... for us to deal with it.
Dealing with it isn't something we can do with a glance or a couple of well placed acknowlegments.
We have to mindfully replace habits and continue to question our motives and actions.
My willingness to question has less to do with a particular spiritual path and more to do with having always assumed everything was my fault :shock:
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A neurotic is a person who suffers from a neurosis which is defined below taken from Wikipedia:
Neurosis, also known as psychoneurosis or neurotic disorder, is a "catch all" term that refers to any mental imbalance that causes distress, but, unlike a psychosis or some personality disorders, does not prevent or affect rational thought. It is particularly associated with the field of psychoanalysis, which is one school of thought in psychology or psychiatry.
To differentiate between neurosis and neurotic: "Neurotic", or affected by neurosis, has come to describe a person with any degree of depression or anxiety, depressed feelings, lack of emotions, low self-confidence, and/or emotional instability.
After reading the above I have assessed that I am still neurotic...bleh...oh well God is just not finished with me yet :)
I guess I would rather be neurotic than perfect because if I was perfect then I would not fit in this world very well -- most people who try to act perfect are the MOST neurotic...there are degrees and levels.
My goal is to be happy with what I have, come to peaceful terms with what happened, to not hurt myself in anyway and to love and care for others, even my enemies. I'm getting there, it takes work, effort and practice, not wishful thinking.
Lise
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Lise:
Letting go of the guilt associated with being imperfect, (esp when it was used to whip us around when we were children.....) is a huge goal.
It's OK to be imperfect.
It also makes it easy to let go of the need to assign blame to others in order to escape the painful process of observing ourselves honestly.
I don't mind my imperfections.... it's my coping strategies that bug me lately: /
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I don't mind my imperfections.... it's my coping strategies that bug me lately: /
Hi Lighter -- wish I could say that same about my imperfections, I don't like them and I tend to be a perfectionist, I've gotta work on that one.
But I can certainly relate to the coping strategies, me too, yep. My coping is usually to run, avoid, hide, deny, smoke, and sleep. I do get some work done in there an during my high level coping times I can be very functional, creative, productive and I can make great use of my time for me and others.
However, I have noticed that I tend to fluctuate or have coping seasons - right now I am moving out of a low level coping season into a better one with moments or days when I revert back to old behavior. This morning I focused on the progress I have made and reminded myself that it is progress that matters not perfection...I can see my progress. I am down to an average of 5 ciggs a day. I am taking much better care of myself and I am enjoying the simple things of life more and living with more self discipline - that is progress!
Nice to hear from you Lighter.
Lise
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Oh BTW, Lighter,
Thanks for saying it is OK to be imperfect...I needed to hear that!
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::sigh::
Eating and sleeping is all my body wants to do lately, Gabben, lol.
Not the best of coping strategies, to say the least.
I remember telling my roomate it was OK if she made mistakes. Just learn from them and do better next time.
She cried and told me she'd never heard that from anyone her entire life.
I think we need to hear that and be given permission to do it..... it helps give ourselves permission somehow.
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We should say yes to ourselves as often as we can as long as it is in line with what we know to be right. If you are a spiritual person (I forget who is and isn't) then, what you know to be 'right', should allign with what you and God agree is right according to the scriptures.
Amen! TT
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Thanks for that helpful response, tt.
I think there was something there for everyone and I saw a doctor today and have another appt. tomorrow to another doc.
Question:
By survival food... do you mean the army ration stuff that come with a match and a cigarrette, lol?
Not half bad in light that you heat up then eat up..... no cooking necessary: )
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For me, I have been neurotic for a long time. However, I 'feel" myself getting emotionally healthier.
What is happening is that my feelings and thinking are becoming "un frozen".It is a strange thing to descibe,but for anyone who has gone through it, they will understand.
I feel like a "spell" has been removed,as in the fairy tales.
I could not "feel "things out, before. Now, I can look at life and people and see the 'truth",not what I am supposed to see. I can look at myself and see the truth(more),not what I am supposed to see.
It is wonderful and strange,too. Does anyone relate? Ami
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No, not MRE's. More like tuna, peanut butter, bread, milk (placed it outside the window so it would stay fresh). Things like that.
Hope your doctor's appointments are revealing in a good way and that you feel less tired and sleepy by this time next week.
tt
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tt.... I wouldn't have pictured peanut butter, bread and milk as survival food.
You made it sound so romantic with the snow and window, lol.
I'm in the mood for a roast beastie MRE after talking about them.
My doc appt today didn't give me any info but I hope tomorrow does..... looking forward to feeling better next week.
Shunned:
Totally agree.... recovery isn't something that happens when we face the pain. It's ongoing and if we're not mindful.... sometimes even if we are.... we slip back or lose ground. I guess that's part of the process too.
3 steps forward.... 2 steps back.
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What is happening is that my feelings and thinking are becoming "un frozen".It is a strange thing to descibe,but for anyone who has gone through it, they will understand.
Does anyone relate?
Yes, I relate!
Feeling feelings is OK. It is what we do with out feelings and how much we allow ourselves to be a slave to them that is problem.
During the holiday's I spent some time just observing my little one year old niece. She has some pretty powerful emotions, jealously when her siblings are getting mom's attention, anger when a toy is taken away from her. My sister let's her express and experience the full range of her feelings. If the feelings are able to just move through or are just expressed then my little niece just moves on and gets over whatever it was that she was upset about. She will also outgrow her feelings as she begins to recognize that tantrums and negative emotions don't work and are not fun.
Today I felt about 2 years old as I was experiencing some old anger from way back when. I just let the emotion move through me. Eventually, as the emotion was getting unblocked, I was able to identify what the feelings were about at least in a general way -- old FOO pain stuff, the kind of stuff that keeps me down and keeps me hurting me. I'm still working towards forgiveness.
Lise
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Powerful ,Lise. Thank you! Love Ami
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Responding to the initial post, if a person has hepatitis and does not know it, does she still have hepatitis?
how about cancer? How about a viral cold? Depression? The person has depression but does not know has depression, is she still depressed?
I wouls say yes.
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I agree Lupita.
100% and I know I'm talking about myself too.
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Thank you Lighter. I am sour right now. Sorry.
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It's OK, Lupita.
I haven't been all sweetness and light myself.
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But I am not blaming others as Hopsy thinks.
Neurosis, has nothing to do with confronting your self, Ami.
Experiments with rats proved it. They can make rats neurotics by overpopulation in cages and they start eating eacg other even if they have enough food.
Over popuplation of more that 80% of the capacity of any container, church, hospital, ect, leads to neurosis. Just to talk about one of the one thousand causes of neurosis.
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I think you're quetioning Lupita and really seeking to udnerstand some things that bother you.
Very very frustrating spot but keep asking and seeking..... things get clearer after you stick with something long enough.
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Neurosis, has nothing to do with confronting your self, Ami.
There is truth the above statement but I think what Ami is trying to say is that the way to overcome neurosis is to name it - face it etc.
The first step in getting well with any neurosis or physical condition is to first name it or diagnose it and face it.
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Any disease. You do not get treatment unless diagnosed.
That is not what this is about.
The questions was:
If I am neurotic and dont know it..... am I still neurotic?
a) yes
b) no
c) you have to confornt your self.
Tyhe answer is very clear.
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OK, thanks for clarifying.
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But I am not blaming others as Hopsy thinks.
Hi Lupita,
I haven't been over to the other thread to see your response, but just simply here:
I didn't think you asked if you were blaming others for your happiness. I thought you asked whether you were making others responsible for it.
I interpreted (or maybe misinterpreted) that as, in your thinking, are you placing responsibility for your happiness outside yourself.
I don't think of you as a blaming person. I think you're very honest about your feelings and your struggles. I don't see you crying "victim". I just hear you suffering a lot.
And when you describe what you're suffering about, it does seem to be about the approval or response of others.
That's all. It's about the degree to which others affect you...or that was always true for me. Other people could affect me so much earlier in my life that I lived in near-constant anguish. It's only been in this decade of my life that I've learned I don't have to let rejection cut so deeply. It can still cut, but I have more self-protection than I did.
love,
Hops
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A few days ago I posted about how they brake elephants in some parts of Asia. They torture them, tie and chain them, when they are babies. By the time they are finish with them, the elephants do not run away even if they are brake free of chains.
They did experiments with cats, they put a cat in a very small piece and if move away, he got electric shocks. After a while, the cat does not try at all to move away even if you turn off the electricity.
When you have been treated in a way that end up hopeless, thinking that there is no door, and you stay where you are going to be damaged, you have been invalidated.
Also, when you are asked a question and you put excitement and thought and energy in your answer and your answered is ignored or you are not even allowed to finish your answer because the person changed the subject abruptly, that is invalidation.
Or when you ask something and you never get an answer, that is invalidation.
Can you show me where is the question?
And I am not fighting or nothing, I am trying to stay and discuss, as long as you allow me. How can you allow me? By responding. If you do not respond-----------> extintion comes.
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I don't understand your point, Lupita. Forgive me for being dense. Are you talking about being ignored , on the board? Ami
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Also, when you are asked a question and you put excitement and thought and energy in your answer and your answered is ignored or you are not even allowed to finish your answer because the person changed the subject abruptly, that is invalidation.
Or when you ask something and you never get an answer, that is invalidation.
This is exactly how I feel after posting on this board.
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You don't become extinct if you're not responded to on the board. You just didn't get a response and everyone doesn't get responses all the time.
It's not always about people not being interested.... sometimes they're interested in their own struggles and line of thoughts at the time.
Sometimes another person's struggle is similar or they feel they can reach out and help someone in particular bc it just strikes a cord.
It;s not that anyone is being ignored particularly..... it's that they're attention is somewhere else? Does that make sense?
Jump in Lupita.
Mix.
Get closer to people on the board... some will click and some won't.
You've come here looking for advice for a while.... and I think sometimes that we're accustomed to answering that call from you.... maybe that's part of this?
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Hi Lighter,
Are you talking to me...it has been awhile since anyone has actually addressed something to me here that is not on my own thread. I post on a lot of threads and what I post is not always advice seeking...take a look back...
Lise
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oh yes, I was begging love and I am paying the consequences. So, when a person begs, the image that projects, is hmmmm.......
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Lupita,
Can I give an honest opinion? Ami
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Daer Ami, I do not wish to get involved in a discussion with you. So, fi you are asking me permission, I say no.
But, this is a free place, you can do whatever you want. I will choose to answer or not to. And this is not personal, just that I find almost impossible for ME to communicate with you. It is my fault. Not yours. It is me, not you. I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong, just I do not know how to handle it and I do not wish to deal with it right now.
So, you are a great person, and everybody loves you here. Including me.
Thank you for your offer. I do not wish to do that right now.
God bless you.
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Lupita,
I am so glad that you were honest. If you don't resonate with me, it is helpful for me to know, so I can post accordingly. No bad feelings,Lupita! Ami
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Hi Lup,
This may sound ridiculous, but when I started your post about the baby elephants, it was so painful that I literally skipped it. I got the drift but couldn't stand it.
I love elephants.
I collected them until my brother sent me one made of ivory from Viet Nam. A light went off. Duh.
Their intelligence, their sensitivity.
I can't bear human beings sometimes. Including myself.
I completely concede that my responses or lack thereof have frustrated you Lup, but I am honestly not up to deconstructing it.
Hope you'll forgive me when you can. I am sorry I disappoint you.
love
Hops
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Hi Lighter,
Are you talking to me?
Lise
No, Gabben. I was posting to Lupita.
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Sorry for being stubborn. I am sorry I made you apologize. I am sorry I wanted to make you feel bad. I hope I was not usccessful and you are just trying to be condescendent. I am not really trying to make you feel bad. I just wanted to have a voice. I am sorry. Thank you for being my friend. I know you will tresspass my boundaries again, it is your personality. But now that I know we are equal, I will not get offended again. Thank you, God bless you.
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Doggone it, I am not trying to be condescending, Lup!
sheesh. I am half-senile from Ambien and can't remember each mistake I make!
love you back (I do) but I am going to take a break for a while from engaging.
Hops