Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Learn on June 24, 2004, 06:43:16 PM
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Hi Everyone,
I want to take some time to let you all know how much you have helped me. Those who responded to my posts and those who I have never "spoken" to. I am reading about your lives and thoughts, and I find them very helpful and often inspiring.
I thought I would share with you how I am doing. I did contact authorities about my father's behavior. I don't know what will happen if anything...but I feel that I did something and it helps me to know I have tried. I have managed to avoid almost everyone in my birth family, including my mom...but that is certainly not solving my internal turmoil. This board has really helped me with my resolve to do these things. I am so comforted by knowing that others are here that make similar choices in staying away from people who hurt them, even if it means they are family. I am always so afraid that people will think I am really awful for not wanting to contact them.
I have seen my therapist twice and I feel good about being back in that process. Overall though, I feel pretty bad. I had a small nervous breakdown last week. Right before a big celebration. Couldn't go...really felt bad...still do. This is what I am afraid of...falling apart, letting people down.
Cdplummer discussed pain on another thread...and I am so in awe of her ability to plow through it. And she has 2 kids. I am so afraid of my pain. It sits in a room by itself. I don't want to go in there...yet I feel like I am waiting in a corridor and that room is overflowing.
I also can't help thinking, "what the h**l is wrong with me". I mean really...I have been doing this soul searching for a long time. I read back in my journals from 15 years ago. I had forgotten so much and it really brought how screwed up I was home to me. So many crappy relationships (with men and women friends). Therapy has helped me alot...I have a good marriage. Yet...the pain still sits there waiting. I have read so many self-help books, been through 3 therapists with over 6 years logged in weekly therapy. So why am I still sitting here, depressed and afraid of this Pain?
I asked my therapist if I had a personality disorder...you know he never really answered. Later he said that one might feel crazy if you were the only normal person amongst crazy people. But I am not comforted. I am lost and unable to understand how this pain will stop from interfering in my life. I refuse to let it become my life. I refuse, I refuse, I refuse!!! Maybe that is my problem, maybe I should let it become my friend. I honestly don't know which way to go or if I even have that choice.
So here I stand, waiting for something to trigger in a therapy session that really helps me a ton. I feel like a dope spending so much energy on myself. I feel like a bigger dope that I just can't seem to "get it" that I really suck at finding myself. And this is probably one of the most important things I can do. And I hope you all don't read this and think that I am too self indulgent. That thought comes from my upbringing I guess. I am realizing (again) that I was taught that my emotions were bad...and that I tend to separate them from the "good" part of me...whatever the heck that is cuz right now I can't even define that.
Please know that my thoughts are with you all...I hear all your voices and want the best for you. I feel completely inadequate to respond most of the time and I hope you will understand. I am struggling with all of my thoughts and feelings and am having a really hard time expressing myself (or even knowing what it is that I want to express).
Bless you,
Learning
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I'm sorry Cplummer...I spelled your name wrong in my post above. :roll:
Take Care.
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I asked my therapist if I had a personality disorder...you know he never really answered. Later he said that one might feel crazy if you were the only normal person amongst crazy people. But I am not comforted. I am lost and unable to understand how this pain will stop from interfering in my life. I refuse to let it become my life. I refuse, I refuse, I refuse!!! Maybe that is my problem, maybe I should let it become my friend. I honestly don't know which way to go or if I even have that choice.
Learning,
First, thanks for telling the authorities about your father. You did the right thing. You may have protected some people by doing that.
You don't have a personality disorder. Sometimes therapists don't answer that question immediately when asked by a patient, because they're hoping to hear more of your thoughts on what a personality disorder is. His reply to you sounded like he does not think you have a disorder, and your family is crazy.
It might help if your therapist was titrating the pain in small doses, since you are very anxious that you'll be retraumatized. Maybe he can help you lessen the pain. I don't know if you're on medication.
There's no rule about how long it takes to get better, or to know yourself. Give yourself time. If others want to rush you, too bad, it's not their life, it's yours.
bunny
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Hi Bunny,
Thank you for the reassurance about not having a personality disorder. Your opinion means alot to me. Sometimes that fear just grips me...that I really am the crazy one.
I am still real fuzzy on exactly how the therapy process is suppose to help my pain go away. My T does move slowly and certainly does not push me in anyway. Sometimes I wonder if he should. I am not on medication.
I believe you are right when you say there is no rule about the time it takes to get better...I will try to be patient with myself. I am worried that it will never happen...getting over this. I am worried that I will be stuck with this forever...like living in the same day over and over again. It's as if the outer world and the outer me has been moving on...but my inner core is still this little girl, scared to death.
Thanks again Bunny. In my book, you are definetly a strong achiever.
Learning
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Dear Learning, thank you for your post. I heard you clearly, you sound real to me. You said:
I refuse to let it become my life. I refuse, I refuse, I refuse!!! Maybe that is my problem,
Fighting the pain seems natural to me because I was ‘raised’ (ha ha, not) to be strong, coping, independent, not a cry-baby, not a weakling….all that BS. The pain hurts but it also tells me that my problems are real and true. But I agree with bunny about managing the pain and not being rushed. And being self-indulgent? Self-indulgent. What’s wrong with that. If you don’t indulge your Self, what’s the point to life? The opposite to Indulge is Deny – a bad thing. Lovely, warming, to hear from you, P
PS Just read your new post. You're not the crazy one! :)
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Learning,
I truly feel your excrutiating pain,,"why don"t you stop pain!" I agree, you do not have a personality disorder. You are not crazy. From all of the reading I've been doing on personality disorders; denial of the pathology is a common thread to the disorder. You are only too willing to take a humble look at yourself. Continue to see your counselor. Take it moment by moment as much as you can. You are right, having 2 boys is a motivation to walk through my pain. You also deserve a happy life--for just YOU!! Find one or two things that feel good---a walk outside, a book in the park, a facial, a nap--and repeat repeat repeat!! soon other things will feel good too. Talk to good friends. Reach out to them for support. Let them love you. Reach out Reach out Reach Out!!! Everyday if you need to. I do believe there are angels out there who want to help you. Many of them are right on this site. We are with you. Cplummer CSHF
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I am still real fuzzy on exactly how the therapy process is suppose to help my pain go away. My T does move slowly and certainly does not push me in anyway. Sometimes I wonder if he should. I am not on medication.
Hi Learning,
Therapy is a mixed bag. Therapy brings up pain. It's also supposed to make the pain better. If you're feeling much worse then the therapist needs to help you. I don't think being in constant emotional pain is required or desirable. Sometimes medications can help big-time. I couldn't function this well without antidepressants.
And thanks for the very kind words.
Bunny
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Thank you all for your very kind and supportive posts. I saw my therapist today and I have alot to think about. Thank you for being here.
Learning
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Hiya Learning
I have only read this post by you, so I don't know a great deal about your situation, but from this post it seems to me that you have a great deal of pain, but you are unable to locate it or define it very well, but you are afraid that it is more powerful than you are, and that at any unguarded moment it might take over and you would then lose control.
The work which you are doing with your therapist is addressing this issue, together with several others, related to your family.
I hope I have understood that right.
I had one thought while reading all of that. Your pain is hidden away because for whatever reason you do not feel safe looking at it. You are frightened by it. Could you, therefore, approach it another way??
I thought perhaps you could collect lots of colours; pencils or paints or crayons; anything. Then take your time in looking at the colours, and choosing the one which most closely looks to you to mean safe and in control and happy. Then draw a box that colour on a piece of paper. That box is a safe container. Nothing inside that box can get out.
Then try to think what colour your pain is; nothing else, not the shape or the form, but only the colour. Then find a pencil or crayon which is most like that colour and draw or colour inside the box. If it feels scarey, then go back to the safe colour. This is not to define the pain, but to enable you to look at it in safety, using imagery or metaphor. If you can find a shape, then fine. If not, then just a scribble or anything would do. Don't try to rush and find out a form. Just a colour. If you find yourself trying to draw something, then change hands so that you don't get tempted to do that. I don't want you to get scared.
It is a way of looking at something that at present you are not able to allow yourself to look at. Like peeping from behind the settee at a scarey programme when you were small. If you just peep a bit, like through your fingers, it is easier.
You might also find something in the safe colour to use as a talisman to help you feel grounded when you start to feel scared, or when you have a difficult event to go to.
I hope this does not seem totally stupid. I think sometimes words are one way in to our fears, but sometimes the words have too many blocks in the way, and maybe pictures or even just pure colour can help us get through and past the blocks.
Anyway, just a thought. Take care.
C
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Hi All-
Thank you to Bunny, Portia, CSHF and October for your replies.
October, I did take your advice to heart and tried using colors to get in touch with my pain. I did it the very next day after I read your post. It did give me some insight on something and I enjoyed the experience of trying that. Thanks for your help.
I've been sort of living in a dull depression...still feeling pretty stuck. In a previous post I had mentioned that I felt like when I was with people I was outgoing but shallow. I would like to talk more about that. Right now my life consists of spending my time 24/7 with my kids. I love it and it is trying, rewarding, exhausting, joyful, tedious and yet wonderful. That is what it is like. It is so many great things yet has so many challenges. My biggest challenge is that inside I am a ball of emotions just ready to explode. Most of them aren't exactly pretty. Lots of anger, shame, sadness...I think you get it. Yet, I am with my kids (who don't and shouldn't have to understand all this at the tender ages of 2 and 4) and I am constantly going to playdates, dance classes, the park, Sunday school...I am interacting with other parents and kids all the time. So what do I talk about with them? Well you can bet it isn't about how I am feeling. No I suppress it constantly. We talk about the kids, their lives cuz I can't manage to talk about mine right now without crying. I choose not to walk around with how I feel exposed to the world. If I did I would be sullen and angry and the rest of the world really doesn't need that. It isn't their fault. That is why I feel shallow and unfullfilled in my relationships. Recently I have decided to start telling people that I am working on "healing old wounds". I feel I need to give some explanation as to why I am cancelling out of so many activities. I just can't do it. I just can't put the smile on my face most of the time lately. So does that mean I am becoming less shallow? Maybe. But here is the deal, I see my shallowness as a coping mechanism. And I don't consider this shallowness as hurting others except that I am not letting people really get to know me. And yep I don't really want most people to know me...I am so programmed of how bad I am that I am sure everyone will see it if I let them in. I don't need anyone else telling me how bad I am...I have the tape recorder running in my head every minute of the day.
Of course all of these feelings and behaviors extend to the board. This board is anonymous but it stops being so once you post. Everyone has a personality here and you all become very real to me. So all the same feeling are brought out here just like out in the world. I am trying to not write here unless I am diving into these hard to handle feelings so that I am not just coping. So that I am actually feeling and reacting from my feelings.
Somebody (the newbie from the other post) really helped me out with that. She could be my mother...just different circumstances. I lost sleep over her story, her attitudes. Riduculous. I try to feel empathy for her, for my mother, my father. And I guess I do...but the anger is strong. She awoke me out of my depression if only for a short time. I am so happy the board handled her the way you did. Too bad we can't reach her kids, let them know that there are lots of people on their side. Maybe they already know cuz of their auntie.
That is an issue I have been wrestling with. Why didn't anyone ever help me? I was just a kid...their were signs...of course their were signs. NOONE ever helped...NOONE ever even offered words that indicated maybe they understood what I was going through and that it wasn't fair to me. Just kill me...that is how I felt as a child. One day when I was 10 I was hanging from the monkey bars and I let go...I don't know why...it was more like why not? I hit my head and my lights went out. But they really didn't go out...I was unconcious but there in my dream were the most loving people I had ever met. The accepting me unconditionally and I felt so happy, I felt like I was at home. Then I woke up and I was back to my awful life. I brushed myself off and walked home...my eyesight was affected by the fall and I saw black spots everywhere. I told Grandma what had happened. No hug, no compassion. Just the mechanics. Don't fall asleep. Call mom to come home from work. Go to the doctor. I guess they did that...take me to the doctor. But boy did I miss the angels from my other "state".
Wow, I sure can ramble. Maybe I should start my own ramble thread :lol: At this point I have lost what I wanted to say. Thanks for listening.
Love to all of you.
Learning
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Learning,
Putting on the mask doesn't make you shallow. It's not shallowness at all. It's a survival mechanism that you need! I wouldn't take it off unless I was around safe people, who would not reenact what my original family did. You don't know yet who will reenact it. Also, if you take off the mask, you may trigger other adults' childhood stuff. That is like opening a Pandora's box.
It sucks that no one was there for you as a child - I can relate! - but you are now taking care of your inner child by having compassion for your own children. That's fantastic. It also might bring up your own stuff. Being around children has that effect.
My feedback is to decline some of the activities, take time for yourself to grieve, keep seeing your therapist. It's okay if you don't let people know everything about you yet. That takes time and healing. I don't know if your therapist has brought up the idea of antidepressants. They don't "cure" the depression but they take the edge off of it.
hugs,
bunny
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Hi Learning.
I relate to your post, as well as the confusion. I have been in therapy for two and a half years, and on only one or two occassions have actually cried. As for pain, its still blocked. I have had somatic (?) crap for years and years, and see this as part of me blocking my feelings, yet I cant seem to STOP. Running away and running away, and I sometimes think its going to kill me. All this energy suppressed. I've already convinced my self I'm going to die of an illness. After all, it has to go somewhere. I feel so numb, and its so hard to break the ice so to speak, and *feel*, even though I'm making tiny progress, which is *shrugs shoulders* something I guess. I feel the need to cry a lot, yeh my tears are blocked and stunted. My life is passing day by day, and I find it hard to even care (yet care that I don't care:S)
I too sometimes think I will never get better. I also feel 'self indulgent', and like my problems aren't even worthy of the board, or I am in the wrong place (more self hated/sabotage/people hate me etc). Again, I think it's a lot to do with my upbringing, and my feelings not being that important. Hell, I dunno.
Good luck, and stick around:).
Hi Everyone,
I want to take some time to let you all know how much you have helped me. Those who responded to my posts and those who I have never "spoken" to. I am reading about your lives and thoughts, and I find them very helpful and often inspiring.
I thought I would share with you how I am doing. I did contact authorities about my father's behavior. I don't know what will happen if anything...but I feel that I did something and it helps me to know I have tried. I have managed to avoid almost everyone in my birth family, including my mom...but that is certainly not solving my internal turmoil. This board has really helped me with my resolve to do these things. I am so comforted by knowing that others are here that make similar choices in staying away from people who hurt them, even if it means they are family. I am always so afraid that people will think I am really awful for not wanting to contact them.
I have seen my therapist twice and I feel good about being back in that process. Overall though, I feel pretty bad. I had a small nervous breakdown last week. Right before a big celebration. Couldn't go...really felt bad...still do. This is what I am afraid of...falling apart, letting people down.
Cdplummer discussed pain on another thread...and I am so in awe of her ability to plow through it. And she has 2 kids. I am so afraid of my pain. It sits in a room by itself. I don't want to go in there...yet I feel like I am waiting in a corridor and that room is overflowing.
I also can't help thinking, "what the h**l is wrong with me". I mean really...I have been doing this soul searching for a long time. I read back in my journals from 15 years ago. I had forgotten so much and it really brought how screwed up I was home to me. So many crappy relationships (with men and women friends). Therapy has helped me alot...I have a good marriage. Yet...the pain still sits there waiting. I have read so many self-help books, been through 3 therapists with over 6 years logged in weekly therapy. So why am I still sitting here, depressed and afraid of this Pain?
I asked my therapist if I had a personality disorder...you know he never really answered. Later he said that one might feel crazy if you were the only normal person amongst crazy people. But I am not comforted. I am lost and unable to understand how this pain will stop from interfering in my life. I refuse to let it become my life. I refuse, I refuse, I refuse!!! Maybe that is my problem, maybe I should let it become my friend. I honestly don't know which way to go or if I even have that choice.
So here I stand, waiting for something to trigger in a therapy session that really helps me a ton. I feel like a dope spending so much energy on myself. I feel like a bigger dope that I just can't seem to "get it" that I really suck at finding myself. And this is probably one of the most important things I can do. And I hope you all don't read this and think that I am too self indulgent. That thought comes from my upbringing I guess. I am realizing (again) that I was taught that my emotions were bad...and that I tend to separate them from the "good" part of me...whatever the heck that is cuz right now I can't even define that.
Please know that my thoughts are with you all...I hear all your voices and want the best for you. I feel completely inadequate to respond most of the time and I hope you will understand. I am struggling with all of my thoughts and feelings and am having a really hard time expressing myself (or even knowing what it is that I want to express).
Bless you,
Learning
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Hi CJ
Your Pressure cooker pain is so familiar, I have been through some pretty bad times and being brought up to not use my voice much, I learned the technique of 'stuffing' the pain. I've struggled with panic attacks and so on and have huge difficulty with going out to social things. I did get to one stage in my life where things became too much for me to stuff behind my placid face and I realised that I didn't have to cry in pain and fear....which is a giving in to the pain. Instead I cried in release and acceptance. Gradually I found the pain lessened. It was rather like clearing out this cupboard that had been so packed with junk (pain and putting up with things) that the doors came away (feelings of breaking down). I'm still facing up to some of the pain, but as I move through the junk in my own time I am seeing things from a different perspective. I have found that writing down my feelings has actually given me a voice that I couldn't find otherwise. I speak much clearer on paper, in speech I find I'm correcting myself in my head before I can talk. (practice runs) I'm usually thinking about how my words will be taken by others, when speaking.
Maybe you could try a Journal again, write to yourself about how you feel, then listen back to your words.
Wishing you peace and release.... :) (Not trying to rhyme here)
Ps.
An author I found hugely helpful in my dark moments is Dorothy Rowe.
Her books 'Breaking the bonds' and others have helped me in many ways.
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Whoops! and Learning too, Sorry I'm new to this still. I just wish everybody here finds healing. Forgive me if I get muddled from time to time... I've just been run ragged for two days running by my 16 mth old grandson and my brain is in a foggy place :)
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Wow...so much to think about, so much to learn. I guess I was on target with my name although lately it seems a little impersonal. :?
Hi Bunny,
I felt your hugs big time. Thank you!
I'm working on grasping the difference between putting on a mask and being shallow. I talked it over with H and he said that I am really a deep pool but that I only let people swim in the shallow end. I feel that is right but there is this strong urge to deny it cuz I don't feel I have the right to hold such a high opinion of myself.
My T also said that being with my kids could be triggering feelings about my childhood. That seems right. Your idea that showing my children compassion is in turn taking care of my inner child...wow...that struck me as just beautiful. Very wise and very hopeful. I have never thought of it that way before. I hope to carry that with me always.
I guess I need to fess up on the drugs thing. I am scared to death of drugs. Specifically, I guess, drugs that effect the mind. I have tried a few (prescription and non-prescription) and I just haven't had good experiences. So I guess I am not real open to the idea of anti-depressants...I don't know what that says about me...but there it is.
Bunny, I am sorry that noone was there for you as a child either. I wish I could reach out and give you a big hug. I think I will use Portia and CG's method ((((((((((Bunny))))))))))).
with love,
Learning
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Hi Portia,
It is just now sinking in. Self indulgence is the opposite of self denial. Looking it up in Oxford American... Indulge is to allow one to have what she wishes...to deny is to say a thing is not true or doesn't exist...
ok I keep getting interrupted...I've sort of lost my train of thought...let's see...allow versus does not exist...close enough for me. That is an awesome perspective Portia. Your right ,denying oneself is a bad thing. I just hope you all don't get sick of me indulging. :)
Thanks for the hug in the ramble thread. Here is one for you (((((((Portia)))))).
Learning
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I'm working on grasping the difference between putting on a mask and being shallow. I talked it over with H and he said that I am really a deep pool but that I only let people swim in the shallow end. I feel that is right but there is this strong urge to deny it cuz I don't feel I have the right to hold such a high opinion of myself.
Your husband is a pretty smart fellow! :D You know, being a deep pool doesn't mean you're superior, and if you agree with that, you have an obnoxiously high opinion of yourself. It's just an observation. Your H probably meant it as a compliment, but it's still merely an observation of reality. And if you choose to diminish this observation, it just annoys people who don't like their observations of reality messed with. :D
Don't worry about the meds, I just thought they'd help. It doesn't say anything about you as a person. Just tells me you'd prefer not to take meds. No biggie.
more hugs,
bunny
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Hi Bunny,
I agree with you as usual. I am now thinking "deeper" about why I feel wierd about thinking that I am deep. Lots here about that I guess. I mean really I think everyone is deep, although some folks seem to keep themselves out of their own deepness. I don't think it is superior to be deep...but maybe it is just that I feel it adds to me being "different" from other people...which is a feeling I have had my whole life. My rational side says that I am not that different from others...but the core of me says that I am. My sisters and mother have often reminded me that I am different and I think part of it has to do with how I look at things. And I know I should take what they say with a grain (or maybe a truckload :D ) of salt, but still it is part of my upbringing. Even here at the board, I feel like I have so much in common with people, yet I still feel so out of place. Aargghhh! I am getting lost in my own thinking about this. I need a break. :? :)
Lots of love,
Learning
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Hi Bunny,
I'm back. Looking over everything I have said on this topic, it doesn't make sense to me. All my thoughts. I wrote everything down and tried to connect the dots (that's the engineer in me, I guess) and it just doesn't seem to add up. I find that so frustrating, when I don't make sense to myself. Definetly something here, just don't know what.
By the way, thanks for the reassurance about the meds topic. :)
Big hugs,
Learning
P.S. I think H is pretty smart too (for many reasons)! I respect his opinion very much.
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What did your mother and sister tell you? My mom and older sister told me I was 'different' implying that I was strange, eccentric, impractical, and illogical. And I believed them for a long time. Then I realized that it's simply not the case. I'm not those things. I still feel 'different' but not by their definition. It's by my own definition.
bunny
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Hi Bunny,
Whew...glad you found my use of your word flattering. I was in quite a dither over it. It's interesting cuz usually I don't think I would be so worried about making a mistake like that...it is just that here, on this board, I feel sooooooo vulnerable. I feel completely off-step and I don't like it but I think it's good cuz I am also feeling alot of stuff that I had pushed down.
What makes me different? I don't remember exactly what they said to me as a kid, but I have come away with two major beliefs. The first is that I can't trust myself...I don't see what I see, hear what I hear, know what I know or even want what I want. I don't see the world as it is or as others see it. The second is that I have some sort of special power over people and situations. As an adult I have heard...that my "words could destroy someone in minutes" and that I am a witch with powerful abilities among other things. But this also lent itself to responsibility...if something was wrong...they wanted me to fix it.
It was an obvious display of this type of thinking that really pushed me to this point of cutting off ties. The time since my kids were born, I really tried to build family ties...I still was holding on to this dream that if I tried hard enough, I could make everything work out between me and my family. It began to really take a toll on me and I was starting to pull away.
Then in January my dad called me one night complaining that his swollen legs were "weeping" to the point that pools of water were collecting on the ground. I suggested he go to the emergency room, he refused...and by now I had already learned to just let that go(plus I am 5 hours away). But he went in the next day and it turns out he was having serious complications from a heart condition he didn't tell anyone about. I know this because I called his nurse after my mom begged me to because only "I" could handle this and I was HOOKED. I was so the little girl again. Crying in the shower, really worried that this time he was going to die. Really worried that it was all on my shoulders. I called him and expressed my concern, my love, my desire to come see him. Couldn't he see that I really cared??? That he didn't need to play any games? That I would give him the love he craved? No he couldn't. The next day, when he was feeling better, he called me. What did he say? First he insulted my cousin (who I am getting close to), then he half insulted my H and then he told me that the reason his leg was infected was because of a fall he had taken at my house in 1996. This was my fault? Good Lord...he was serious. I was stunned, really stunned. I got off the phone but called later to let him know how I felt...I was a bit emotional, but I tried to stick to the facts...he told me I was "f***ing crazy" and should be put away. Later he pretended like nothing happened. Always pretending.
Mom's take on it? "Oh that's why you are so angry. Oh you know he didn't mean it. Oh, you know you don't always perceive things correctly".
I'm done with them...done with the emotional rollercoaster, done with the diminishing, belittling and the REFUSAL to take responsiblity for anything they do. This was just the last scene, the list goes on and on.
My sisters have complained on and on to me about them. Yet they really think I'm wrong for pulling away, for not fulfilling my role in all of this. I'm very sad about this because I really want a relationship with them. I am not completely writing that off...but for now I need space from them as well.
So what does all this have to do with feeling like I shouldn't say I am "deep". I guess I still don't really know. Maybe I feel like if I do compliment myself then everyone will think that I am buying into this idea of having special powers. I don't really know. Or maybe I don't want people to give me too much responsiblity. Oh well...still not sure.
Thanks Bunny for being so insightful and asking really good questions. I spent alot of time thinking about this one :) .
Learning
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Oh Learning, I can relate so much with your life! I felt like there was a mirror of me I was reading about, but the situations are a little different.
I really feel for you, because I know the anguish you are going through. I just told H last night I think I live in a parallel universe. When I am at home, no one thinks I see what I see, hear what I hear, know what I know, feel what I feel, etc. But when I drive away from my house on my way to work, it's as if I pass through an unseen door and the world is then normal. At work, I do not have these problems. How can life be so different? H's response was that "I set up my work environment, let them see the person I want them to see, act the way I want them to see me act, and have no past with them so no baggage to get in the way". But he says at home I ahve no choice to be the real me and I confuse everyone else, not the other way around. Strange thing is, at work I am so comfortable really being me, accepted for who I am. At home I feel I must live up to an expectation that is impossible to achieve - SuperMom!
You said:
The first is that I can't trust myself...I don't see what I see, hear what I hear, know what I know or even want what I want. I don't see the world as it is or as others see it. The second is that I have some sort of special power over people and situations. As an adult I have heard...that my "words could destroy someone in minutes" and that I am a witch with powerful abilities among other things. But this also lent itself to responsibility...if something was wrong...they wanted me to fix it.
Wow! can I ever relate!
N parents have always told me same thing. For example I could tell Nmom the sky is blue on a clear day and she would say, "not really, it may have been at one time, but I'm sure it's going to rain so even if you think it's blue, it's not - you don't see it right and it's really gray, you're always so wrong."
Ndad told me he would never forgive me for being responsible for his truck accident - a woman broad sided him, I was at my home waiting for them to visit. He says since he was coming to visit me, and I lived 4 hours away, thus forcing him to drive so far to see me, it was all my fault and I would never be forgiven. He has no problem drivng 1500 miles to visit my sister every year.
Can we cyber lean on each other? :cry:
We'll hang in there together.
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Hi Ellie,
Wow...it does sound like we have had really similar experiences. You brought up some things here that really resonated with me! Cyberleaning sounds good to me.
First I want to say that I read through your other thread and I say, GO, ELLIE, GO. I think it is wonderful that you are standing up for yourself in your marriage. I always find it mind boggling when I hear about people taking advantage of other people.
When I am at home, no one thinks I see what I see, hear what I hear, know what I know, feel what I feel
I'm really sorry that you are going through this. It is crazy making. And thank you Ellie for reminding me of the last one. I also don't feel what I feel. Interesting that I forgot that one. I was taught and reinforced so many times in my life that feelings are something to be feared. Put them away and use your head...but oh yeah...you don't see things clearly so you have NO CHANCE of doing anything right. AARGH!
Oops sorry for the outburst.
But when I drive away from my house on my way to work, it's as if I pass through an unseen door and the world is then normal. At work, I do not have these problems. How can life be so different? H's response was that "I set up my work environment, let them see the person I want them to see, act the way I want them to see me act, and have no past with them so no baggage to get in the way". But he says at home I ahve no choice to be the real me and I confuse everyone else, not the other way around. Strange thing is, at work I am so comfortable really being me, accepted for who I am. At home I feel I must live up to an expectation that is impossible to achieve - SuperMom!
Oh boy, your H reminds me of some people I know. So at work you are just a big fake, huh? What the h**l? That really angers me. I think you are right...only I think as you walk out your front door the world is normal since you have left the crazy making machine.
I am really intrigued by your idea of a parallel universe. I have been feeling that way so much lately. I remember feeling that way as a child. Home versus school. I always excelled in school and I think it was partly because the expectations were clear, not alot of gray area. I loved school because I could do things right there. Home was another story.
Lately my parallel universe is between what I am feeling inside and what is happening outside of me. My family life is positive. My H trusts my point of view and I have friends who are positive and from what I see supportive. But still that belief that I am evil, just really out to hurt other people (and I don't know I'm doing it) sits with me. My inner guards are always here watching to make sure I am not doing anything wrong. I imagine them to be like little soldiers :lol: . But really it is frustrating.
Ellie, so you have super powers too. Yes of course you had the ability to stop that woman from hitting your dad, you just didn't want to. Again, I find it just absolutely mind boggling that someone could use this reasoning. I'm sorry you are experiencing this too.
Thank you for sharing this with me. I'm sad for what you are going through and have gone through. Yet I am glad to know that I am not alone in this type of experience.
with Cyber hugs,
Learning
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I don't see the world as it is or as others see it. The second is that I have some sort of special power over people and situations. As an adult I have heard...that my "words could destroy someone in minutes" and that I am a witch with powerful abilities among other things. But this also lent itself to responsibility...if something was wrong...they wanted me to fix it.
Learning,
Do you mean they told you you literally had magical powers?
bunny
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Hi Bunny,
I don't know if they ever told me that as a child, but mom said that to me some years ago as an adult. She basically started telling me that I was a witch who had this ability to make things go my way. She believes that I can just think about something I want and then it will happen. I rejected that when she told me because it is obviously not true. As a child, I don't know really what she told me...I don't remember much.
She also thinks she has some powers. Once when my cats were missing I was so distraught and I called and told her about it. She told me she was sorry because it was her fault. She didn't put the protective bubble around me and my cats that morning while meditating. I guess usually she does. :?: Anyway, I found my cats later (in case you were wondering).
I feel bad writing about this because this part about my mom makes me really sad. She really has had a hard life and I know that she probably feels much more confused and anxious than I do. I just wish she could see that there are people that could help her. Instead she clings to my dad. :(
Learning
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She basically started telling me that I was a witch who had this ability to make things go my way. She believes that I can just think about something I want and then it will happen.
She also thinks she has some powers. Once when my cats were missing I was so distraught and I called and told her about it. She told me she was sorry because it was her fault. She didn't put the protective bubble around me and my cats that morning while meditating.
The idea that she has supernatural protective/destructive powers can be a symptom of delusional thought process and/or paranoia. It would be less troubling if she was only deluded about herself -- but she's deluded about you as well.
Your mom may have a psychiatric disorder, and that's why she is not in reality as we know it. Many people with disorders refuse to seek professional help. It's not your fault or responsibility. You can't make her better. :(
bunny
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Hi Bunny,
It's not your fault or responsibility. You can't make her better.
I sure hope I am finally getting that through my thick skull. :roll: I have spent alot of energy in the past trying to find ways to help her. She has always turned to me when she was having a rough time. The tricky thing (for me) is that she acts like I AM helping her, she starts talking in a way that temporarily makes me think she is going to make positive changes in her life. She sometimes even temporarily acts in more positive ways. Yet in the end she always falls back on the same patterns she has always had. Now, I truly believe that I've been of no help to her whatsoever, probably more of a hindrance to her overall well-being. :(
It would be less troubling if she was only deluded about herself -- but she's deluded about you as well.
This all seems so crazy to me. In some ways I don't really want to see this as reality. I mean, what does this say about me? What effect does all of this really have on me? And then of course the age old question, 'what would people think if they knew?' I guess that is what I am trying to figure out. I think I have rooted out some of this type of belief intermeshed in some of my other confusing thought patterns, but I think (and fear) that there is more. In some ways, it's what I don't recognize that I worry about most.
I still feel 'different' but not by their definition. It's by my own definition.
I find this idea of embracing your difference exciting. I had a talk with a friend about this the other day (after I read your post). She said she also feels different, and she believes it makes her stronger. I also recall another friend of mine telling me a couple of months ago that she loves being different. I used to embrace some of my differences, but that was more about what I did in my career rather than who I am (or maybe not :? ). I admire your ability to define and embrace your differences for yourself. Do you have any advice on how to go about doing that?
And if you choose to diminish this observation, it just annoys people who don't like their observations of reality messed with.
Bunny, I haven't been able to get this observation :) out of my head. Yes you are right...I know I get annoyed when people diminish my observations of reality. I think I do tend to forget that others might feel that way as well. Thanks for the heads up!
Bunny, you are a very wise woman. Thank you for consistently sharing your thoughts and feelings here at the board.
Love,
Learning
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The tricky thing (for me) is that she acts like I AM helping her, she starts talking in a way that temporarily makes me think she is going to make positive changes in her life. She sometimes even temporarily acts in more positive ways. Yet in the end she always falls back on the same patterns she has always had. Now, I truly believe that I've been of no help to her whatsoever, probably more of a hindrance to her overall well-being. :(
Hi Learning,
You actually have helped her by showing empathy. But that's not the same as being a psychiatrist, which is what she really needs. As to your ever being a hindrance, perish the thought. :)
This all seems so crazy to me. In some ways I don't really want to see this as reality. I mean, what does this say about me? What effect does all of this really have on me? And then of course the age old question, 'what would people think if they knew?' I guess that is what I am trying to figure out. I think I have rooted out some of this type of belief intermeshed in some of my other confusing thought patterns, but I think (and fear) that there is more. In some ways, it's what I don't recognize that I worry about most.
It doesn't say anything about you. It says that your mom may need a psychiatrist. I don't think people would think much about it if they knew. My memory is poor, do you have a therapist? If so, you can bring this up with her. It's a great topic.
I used to embrace some of my differences, but that was more about what I did in my career rather than who I am (or maybe not :? ). I admire your ability to define and embrace your differences for yourself. Do you have any advice on how to go about doing that?
All you have to do is notice your talents and passions, your likes and dislikes that make you a unique individual. For instance, my family told me that I couldn't cook. I agreed with this myth until my 30s and then I tentatively started cooking. I found that I am a good cook and even kind of passionate about food and cooking. This doesn't make me different from all the other women who cook, but it makes me different in my own estimation. Another thing that makes me feel different is that I read professional journal articles about psychoanalysis. There are hundreds of people reading these articles but I still feel different for reading them. In other words, it doesn't have to be empirically proven that I'm different from every other person. It's more a subjective image of myself as a unique person.
Bunny, I haven't been able to get this observation :) out of my head. Yes you are right...I know I get annoyed when people diminish my observations of reality. I think I do tend to forget that others might feel that way as well. Thanks for the heads up!
Good for you!! :lol:
Thanks for your very kind words, Learning. They made my day!
bunny
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Dear Bunny,
Thank you for the kind feedback.
You actually have helped her by showing empathy
That is reassuring to know :) ...although there have been those times (especially as a sleepless new mom) when empathy wasn't what I was showing :evil: . :lol: :lol: :lol:
My memory is poor, do you have a therapist? If so, you can bring this up with her. It's a great topic.
Yes, I will definetly bring this up with him. I'm starting to feel unstuck and I want to go even deeper with this.
In other words, it doesn't have to be empirically proven that I'm different from every other person. It's more a subjective image of myself as a unique person.
I think I understand what you mean here. Yes, in this case I already have a small list of my differences...on what makes me unique. It's also nice to know some of what makes you unique, Bunny. I had kinda guessed on your passion for reading about psychoanalysis :D . Have you ever considered being a therapist?
H and I have decided to pack up the kids and hit the road tomorrow morning. We are heading for a short vacation at Mackinac Island. I'm really looking forward to it. :D
Thank you again Bunny!
Lots of love and hugs,
Learning
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Hi Learning -
Haven't been on the board as much this summer and somehow overlooked this post.
Just wanted to quickly give you some encouragement on your topic and all the replies. Have you reread all the posts from the beginning? I find it intriguing that with each post you are really digging more and more for your answers! I think the fact that you started your post pondering, then digging for answers and understanding says alot about how much you want to change your life for the better and your true, solid commitment to it. I am very proud of you - that was the biggest and hardest decision for me as of yet. After I made that decision, it seemed like things got really hard but more clear.
I'm very proud of you for reporting your dad's behavior. You will never know what could have happened if you had not made that decision. :cry:
Keep up the fight Learning. I think you are close to figuring out some very important and life changing things about yourself. From my standpoint, it looks like you already have!
Big Big supportive hugs.
Hope your enjoying your vacation!
Love, michelle
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Hi Michelle,
Thank you so much for your wonderful, encouraging post. It really means alot to me.
Yes, you are right, I feel very motivated right now to find a way through my murky brain. I don't know what that really means, but maybe one day I will.
I am also continually inspired by your own journey and how you handle yourself. I am glad you are still here and "talking" about your experiences.
Thanks Michelle!!
Hugs,
Learning
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I asked a psychologist once if I had a mental problem such as a personality disorder. I had just had several session with him about my N ex siince I was in the middle of a horrendous divorce where he was trying to get money from me and using mental illness threats to do so.
The psychologist, after hearing all I had lived with in that marriage, told me that if I went back to that man he KNEW then I would have needed help, but I was just coming out of an abusive relationship, and I was going to be fine. Boy, did that help!
The abuser WANTS you to think you have mental problems for that keeps the abuser in charge!
You are just fine, and keep knowing this!
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Hi Free,
Welcome to the board!
The abuser WANTS you to think you have mental problems for that keeps the abuser in charge!
Yes, yes I can see that now. It really is crazy though because I think in the past I preferred to think that my parents were right (I am crazy) and that they LOVED me. Does that make sense? I still have to fight that urge. It is work for me to keep telling myself that I am not crazy and with that comes the forced reality that my parents don't know how to love and therefore don't love me.
Free, I'm sorry to hear about your experience with your divorce. I am glad you got out. I am going over to your thread now to read more about you. Talk to you there.
Thanks again for the support!
Lisa
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That was me...Learning...I am not signed in again. I have decided to use my given name, Lisa, because I feel too detached from myself as Learning.