Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Leah on January 24, 2008, 07:10:44 PM
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Invalidation
Most of us wonder why the populations in the world who seem to have the greatest mobility and most material possessions are suffering from the yoke of despair and depression. One of the biggest causes is invalidation. As human beings we need to be both independent and interdependent. We need to feel a sense of love and of contribution. If either are missing we are sad, we are defeated, we are joyless.
Invalidation is to reject, ignore, mock, tease, judge, control or diminish someone's feelings. Constant invalidation may be one of the most significant reasons a person with high innate emotional intelligence suffers from unmet emotional needs later in life. A sensitive child who is repeatedly invalidated becomes confused and begins to distrust his own emotions. He fails to develop confidence in and healthy use of his emotions. The working relationship between his thoughts and feelings becomes twisted. The emotional processes which worked as a defense for him when a child will probably work against him as an adult.
Invalidation kills confidence, creativity, individuality... and if we do not find a way to re-empower our individual and collective lives and to connect with our humanity it will slowly erode all that we have built into a tower of sand.
The solution that we seek in our lives, in our work and in our world does not lie outside us but within us. We each have the power to move past invalidation by igniting the power of our heart, to touch our mind and infuse our life, and the lives of others, with validation and joy.
Love, Peace & Joy (((( Everyone ))))
Leah
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Gosh, so much truth to your post! Invalidation is exactly it. I know I have felt greatly invaildated and always seem to strive to get validated by those who simply won't do it---Nmom, co-D dad and others.
My question is what kinds of things can you do to get past it? It so affects your life...every aspect of it. How do you find that confidence, creativity, individuality that has been snuffed out from the time you were a child?
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So many people have "seen" me and "touched "me since last week, when Scott died. I feel validated. In turn, I need to develop my ability to validate other(love others).
I see that love is the "currency" that flows between human beings.
I made a decision to allow love in and I took in the warmth that others gave me.
In turn, I need to develop the capacity to love others, more fully.
Thanks for the thread, Leah. Love Ami
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Lea, sometimes I get confused. Because I agree with your post but still I am confused.
For example, the Maslow piramid says thet you first satisfy you physiological needs. For example if you need to go to the bathroom and you cannot you will not be able to enjoy the most beautiful concert. Then your other needs, food, roof, etc. Then your socual needs and on the top is the validation thing, I called it the thing.
That means that we are not hungry, we are not cold, we have computers, we do not have war, we have a job, we have a car, we have legs, eyes, taste, ears, hear music, we can talk, write to each other, but that is not enough. Oh no, we need the stupid validation.
Who said that we need validation?
We did.
Well, we dont.
WEll, I dont know.
In the cave age, they were happy if they got a mamuth to eat. A cave to live and they held their wives by the hair. Did they have depression?
IN countries where they are hungry they have less depression because they have to survive and cant think in validation "thing".
The thing. THE THING :?
I dont know what I want to say. IN my country I never had AC. Now after ten years in USA I would dye with out AC.
I dont know what I want to say. If you can translate it for me, it is OK.
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The good rhythm of living as a human animal, with a well-defined purpose, in a well-anchored community...
don't leave time for navel-gazing.
Then again, it's navel-gazing that produces art, music, literature. That deep listening, deep expressing.
When the two strands cross it becomes navel-gazing about living as a human animal, and no beauty gets created.
(My philosophy for this Friday night.)
xo
Hops
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Again, you cannot create art if you are hungry. So, once you are feed you start creating art and then you start needing the 'THING'
and getting deprssed.
The worst!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The most beautiful pieces of art have been created in the deepest depresssion states.
The Requiem by Mozart
Chopin and his "Marcha Funebre" I do not know how to say Marcah Funebre in English, Hermes might know.
HOw about Van Goh who even cut his own ear?
And I can mention one thousand.
Then who creates? The one who needs validation. And keep creating to get validation, as long as he odes not get it he keeps creating.
Those who are validated become lazy because they do not need to do anything, they have what they need.
I mean metaphorically, So, dont hang me.
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Yes, Lupita. You are right.
Hermes
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Nobody gets validation. Nobody.
Mozart was never ricognized during his life.
Beethoven was never recognized during his life.
Bach was known two hundred years after his death.
Chopin died with out getting his dream to go to Italy. Also, never recieved what he deserved.
Martir L K was killed.
My studens get a lot of validation from their parents. Some of them are spolied bratt.
If our parents give us validation we would be lazy. My sister is very lazy.
Life is difficult then you die.
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Loll do you think that cave women needed validation? Mamuth hunters?
Have you had this situation in where you really want to go to the bathroom and ofr X or Y you cant, and when you finally get to the bathroom, you feel an enormous satisfaction?
Do you feel that enormous satisfaction if you have accessible bathroom at any time?
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umm... I'm not convinced that relief is the same as satisfaction.
In the bathroom-needs example, there'd be considerable relief, indeed, but also potential damage due to hyper extension of the bladder? Seems to me that the genuine satisfaction would be achieved by preventing the urgent need for relief.
:?
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How do you know if you did not have the need?
How do you know how well you are until you are sick?
How do you know what is a head ache until you feel it?
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Lollie and Lupita:
You are both right. People raised by toxic parents in a dysfunctional environment are, understandbly low in self-confidence, low in everything, because they have been made to feel worthless. A child does not understand why he or she is being made to feel that way, and it is a terrible abuse.
Lupita: I know what you mean about what is called too much self-esteem, where kids are spoilt, indulged, which in a way is also an abuse. Good parenting has to try to find the happy medium, discipline with justice, firm kindness, and good example.
Hermes
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Well, I tell my students, how do you know that we are so privileged to be able to live in a developed country when you have never lived in an underdeveloped country?
Where people have to go to a well to get a buket of water? Where many people have intestinal parasites? Where the only air condition you know is the one when you go to the bank, nd you wish the teller does not take care of you in a long time just to stay inside the bank?
So, how do you know that what you have is good until you compare it?
How do you know that you are tall if nobody is short around you?
I am a short person here, but where I come from, people are much shorter. I was considered tall. So??????
If you talk to a woman of three hundred years ago, validation did not exist. So???? I am still confused.
I dont even know what I am talking about.
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LOL Lupita. You are OK!
Problem is that in our developed world people do not know how well off they are....
Hermes
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Daer moderator, you are killing my curiosity, and you know, they say the curiosity killed the cat!!!!!!!!!!
At least give another clue.
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Lolly, it seems that nobody understands me. BOO BOOO :(
I was speaking metaphorically, but my association of ideas is kind of different to other people. You did not understand my context. My wireing is different from other ladies. But it is OK. I dont have any more energy to explain what I was trying to mean.
I guess now I will go to sleep.
And no, you may not go to the bathroom.
just kidding.
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OK LOL i came back to try once more, not to cnvence you of my point, but to see if I can make my self understood by others, not to change or agree, just to understand what I am expressing.
To know that you are being invalidated, you have to be validated before. You cannot feel invalidated if you do not know what being validated means.
For example, if you say bad words in English, I know they are bad words, but do not make me feel a special feeling, as if I hear them in my native language. In my foreign language class I have seen students say bad words and they feel indifferent and they say, I did not know that was a bad word.
For example, whrere I come from, there is a big room where many people sleep, extended family of course, not strangers. But in this country, I was not able to rent an apartment of one bedroom, because they told me that my son had to have his own bedroom.
My concept of privacy was very different. My son grew up and now his concept of privacy is very different. I never had a bedrrom of my own in my entire life until I came to live in the USA. In m culture you only have privacy when you get married. so, you know something, I am tired, and I do believe that no matter what I say I will not be able to express what I mean, which is not what you meant in your previous post, with which I agree in about 95%.
Night night
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Lupita,
I thank you for this detail because it helped me understand so much more about you...
My concept of privacy was very different. My son grew up and now his concept of privacy is very different. I never had a bedrrom of my own in my entire life until I came to live in the USA. In m culture you only have privacy when you get married
I think I'd feel invisible in Western culture half the time if I had internalized a sense of group the way you were raised with, and then came to live in a place where people have trouble with eye contact, are obsessed with inividualism and ownership and boundaries and personal possessions and privacy, and haven't developed as much sensitivity to others' presence because we're so absorbed with our own.
It makes more sense to me how sensitive you are to others' body language, facial expressions, etc. How acutely you notice their reactions (or lack of). In a group bedroom, people would learn the subtleties of cooperation and coexistence and have a sort of "I am part of others, I feel normal when I am a WE" in a way that children in this culture do not.
I think.
I hope you don't mind my discussing all this. It was a very interesting thought to me, anyway.
love
Hops
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Dear Lupita,
I understand better now, after reading your last post... along with Hops' post (which makes very good sense to me, too... and I also find interesting - thank you, Hops)
I think maybe what you're saying is: A person cannot miss what she/he has never known....
(disclaimer: except I don't think that applies to God, for instance, because I believe we have enough of the void left from His original imprint that there is always a longing for His fullness to return).
So glad you returned here to post again, Lupita... it is good to gain better understanding.
Carolyn
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I understand what you mean, Lupita. We are not quite so "don't touch me" here. We kiss on both cheeks people we meet for the very first time, and there is nothing wrong either here with touching someone while you are speaking to them.
In other words "feelings" are O.K. I absolutely cannot believe that you could not rent a one-bedroom apartment, just because your son would be required to have a bedroom of his own. Of course it would be grand for him to have his own bedroom, once you would be financially able to provide that kind of apartment. But, it is the odd thinking behind the ban which I find just a little disturbing....
All the best to you, and hope you had a good sleep last night.
Hermes
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Ten years ago. Hermes. My son is now 22 and living on his own.
Well, it seems that we hijacked leas thread, and I apologized for my part.
Sorry Lea.
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Well, I dont think I was validated, though.
People think understnad me. Then I realize they dont. But that is not important, but the good intentions of all these good people.
Sorry I dont feel validated. I do believe that Hermes understands. Why, her words have something.
But anyway, no, I did not find it validating, but it gives me comfort that there are good people like Hopalong and CH that have good intentions and try to empathize.
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Sorry I dont feel validated
Dear Lupita,
Then, in that case, maybe, you do feel Invalidated,
which is in context of this thread topic.
i.e Invalidated ~ don't feel understood
Love, Leah
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Yes, Lupita, I can kind of stand in your shoes.
Funny thing, even across the miles, and through an inanimate vehicle like the internet and my computer screen, I can "feel" some people better than others. (a bit like telepathy, LOL). With Lupita, I kind of can "get" her, like a radio wave.
All the best
Hermes
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Invalidation
Most of us wonder why the populations in the world who seem to have the greatest mobility and most material possessions are suffering from the yoke of despair and depression. One of the biggest causes is invalidation. As human beings we need to be both independent and interdependent. We need to feel a sense of love and of contribution. If either are missing we are sad, we are defeated, we are joyless.
Invalidation is to reject, ignore, mock, tease, judge, control or diminish someone's feelings. Constant invalidation may be one of the most significant reasons a person with high innate emotional intelligence suffers from unmet emotional needs later in life. A sensitive child who is repeatedly invalidated becomes confused and begins to distrust his own emotions. He fails to develop confidence in and healthy use of his emotions. The working relationship between his thoughts and feelings becomes twisted. The emotional processes which worked as a defense for him when a child will probably work against him as an adult.
Invalidation kills confidence, creativity, individuality... and if we do not find a way to re-empower our individual and collective lives and to connect with our humanity it will slowly erode all that we have built into a tower of sand.
The solution that we seek in our lives, in our work and in our world does not lie outside us but within us. We each have the power to move past invalidation by igniting the power of our heart, to touch our mind and infuse our life, and the lives of others, with validation and joy.
I cannot give my permission to anyone -- to do the work of Intrusivenes, into my [inner core self] -- my heart, my soul. Therefore, I need to guard my heart, in order to retain the inner peace, joy and deep contentment, that is part of my authentic self.
I cannot give my permission for someone else to define me.
Love, Peace & Joy (((( Everyone ))))
Leah