Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: flower on July 06, 2004, 01:35:41 AM
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Hi everyone! It's good to be back.
We have a new hard drive in another computer and hope this hard drive lasts awhile.
My question: What do your N unloving ones use for bait in your life to reel you back in?
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Thanks so much for your insight and support.
It aided my healing. Too much of my heart
was in this post to let it remain here for posterity on the web.
The post served its purpose and now it is time to
edit it or gently take it down.
To every thing there is a season, and a time
to every purpose under the heaven: Ecclesiates 3:1
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What do your N unloving ones use for bait in your life to reel you back in?
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What do your N unloving ones use for bait in your life to reel you back in?
Their attention to me. They hold it over me like a carrot and always have. It is only recently that I haven't been HAPPY to hear from them because...gee...I am getting emails from my mom and dad. But they never ask any questions. They talk about themselves. What they really WANT is attention. It is so obvious now. I am keeping my distance as difficult as it is and as alone as I feel because getting involved in their Nism would stop me from finally assessing what my needs are. And doing something about it.
I have thought of writing them a letter but, as you mentioned several times, they deny everything. They refuse to feel guilt or remorse. Its funny...they've been divorced since 1965 and don't talk to one another but they are both really self-absorbed people. Maybe that is why they hit it off to begin with.
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My N parents use threats as their bait.
Since proclaiming my independence from N parents the other day, mine are using a threat to take me to court trying to make me comply with going back to the other me they used to know. In other words, behave the way we want you to or we will take you to court. Their ignorance is showng. But last night I dreamed we got a letter that they were taking us to court to take our children away from us. This is a threat they've used for years. I can deal with their verbal threats when they say them, I laugh at them, but I guess it stays on my mind to keep dreaming terrible things. Of course they have no leg to stand on, but my N dad hates me so for standing up to him, that he would rather see me locked away than give me another opportunity to stand up to him. I just need to get them out of my head!!!!!! Is there a pill to take to make you forget your past?????? I know there isn't, but I am free of the control, now I want to be free of the voices!!!!
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Hi Flower (welcome back), and everyone,
Over the years my Nmother has used all of the above. She had her doctor admit me for psychiatric evaluation when I was in college because I became so frustrated by her denial of everything except her fantasies that I actually smashed the face of a table clock with my fist out of frustration. I was 20 at the time and after a week the doctor finally told her he couldn’t keep me there because there was nothing wrong with me. I was in college at the time and they had to let me out on a day pass to attend classes. That was fun.
Her favorite bait, later on was holidays and family occasions. She placed quite a bit of importance on keeping up appearances. Didn’t matter that she was on the phone spreading venom between occasions; my sister and brother weren’t supposed to know about that since we weren’t supposed to be talking among ourselves without her permission anyway.
But all that was many years ago. Right now I really think we’d both rather not have anything to do with each other except that she’s old and needs help. And even if she does finally face facts and move into an assisted living environment, the thought of me going on about my business is not acceptable.
So I’d have to say that right now the bait is guilt. She’s driving around with an expired drivers license and when her car wouldn’t start last week she called my brother 800 miles away because she said she couldn’t bother me (living 2 miles away). She rejects everything I try to do for her and tells everyone it’s because I’m always so angry and unpleasant. How she would know that is beyond me; when I called her on the 4th she blasted my sister, her best friend, my nephew, his fiancee, and my brother’s wife for two solid hours. The only times I got in a word was when she’d pause long enough to demand ARE YOU THERE? in between tirades. She got in a couple of shots at me too, I guess so that I shouldn’t feel left out.
So it’s guilt and the fact that I still love and feel sorry for her as bitter, self-absorbed, self-deluded mean-spirited as she is. Maybe I still think she’s like one of the characters in the books I used to love as a kid. Like Heidi’s crabby old grandfather in the Swiss Alps who just needed the love of a child to turn him around. Except in my case she’d probably accuse me of trying to clobber her with a cuckoo clock while her back was turned. She might be right.
Singer
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flower,
Welcome back! Your father has been brainwashed by the woman he lives with. Keep your boundaries against these lunatics.
I believe your parents have zero chance of successfully suing for visitation of your son. For one thing, you and your husband aren't divorced. You get to decide who has access to your children. For another, your son is old enough to decide who he spends time with. No court is going to listen to these nutcases.
In my family, guilt is the major bait and it works really well! :cry:
bunny
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Hi Flower and all. What a good question and boy do I relate to it all. My 91 year old mother recently told me about an "insight" she had. She said that she now realized that the way to get people to do the things you want them to do is with honey. It took me awhile as it always does ( the black widow spider syndrome - stung, paralysed, witless, sucked dry) to figure out that this really was just a variation on the same old theme-'how can I get what I want when I want it.' But I was actually somewhat relieved initially because I thought it might mean an end to the bullying and guilt tripping. Honey is just another quiver in her bow, another gun in her arsenal. She has a pillow with an embroidered message, "Money isn't everything...but it sure keeps the kids coming around." Would be funny in "normal" circumstances.
Today I am wrestling with whether to go see her or not. She has been "dying" for so long (meanwhile playing golf etc) that I don't know what's real and what's not. She did have a small stroke 2 years ago and that is always hanging in the air. Biweekly trips to doctors and specialists reveal that she is in remarkable shape. I suppose the, what if she died and I didn't do enough.... hangs over me, but less and less since coming to the board. We all die. I do keep asking myself what is fair and reasonable behaviour in these circumstances - old woman needs a sense of family and help - just work it out day by day.
So what does she use --- the threat of stroke, death, the lure of money oodles of poor me and bad you.
Les
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Today I am wrestling with whether to go see her or not. She has been "dying" for so long (meanwhile playing golf etc) that I don't know what's real and what's not. She did have a small stroke 2 years ago and that is always hanging in the air. Biweekly trips to doctors and specialists reveal that she is in remarkable shape. I suppose the, what if she died and I didn't do enough.... hangs over me, but less and less since coming to the board.
Wow, Les. Sounds so similar to what I've been dealing with except my mother is "only" 79. But there will be no honey forthcoming; my mother has said that she doesn't give a damn what happens to anyone in the family, or outside of it for that matter, either now or after she's gone. At the same time she seems obsessed with everyone. She's so filled with rage and contradictions that I had suspected Alzheimers, but her doctor says her mind is strong and there's absolutely no sign of it.
We all die. I do keep asking myself what is fair and reasonable behaviour in these circumstances - old woman needs a sense of family and help - just work it out day by day.
It is day by day. I feel fortunate though in that there's really nothing she can do to hurt me anymore. My children are grown and she has just enough money to keep her comfortable for the rest of her life, but nothing more than that.
Mostly I'm just trying to figure out what happened and is happening with my original family. There are so many questions. Mostly about what's real and what isn't on an emotional level. For me emotions have always been a minefield.
Singer
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My question: What do your N unloving ones use for bait in your life to reel you back in?
My N encounter was not with a parent, but with a significant other.
A major problem was his distancing (in hurtful ways ) at the 3 mnth. mark. The intimacy growth that would occur beyond that point brought up all his inner stuff & caused him severe inner pain & anxiety. So, he'd distance & we'd start from a place of less intimacy again, until it got to the 3 mnth. break point again. This happened over, & over & over....
He'd attempt to reel me back after distancing, by saying all of these wise, seemingly introspective comments. He'd realized this, & that now... An old & familiar story for so many who have dating non committal men, I'm sure.
He knows that I am very inner growth oriented & so he would ask me a whole bunch of questions on the topic, as well. Like he'd taken some huge interest in the subject
He also attempted to keep me hooked during distancing, by ambivalence, as strange as that would seem. You'd think it would be a driving away force. The ambivalence equaled hope to me. At least it wasn't over & maybe we would work it through, was my rationalized mind set.
He knew this very well, and we were in a perpetual state of ambivalence for 4 out of the 5 years, I'd say!
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Flower
Thanks for your post. I feel really bad for your father and alarmed that I could be him in the future if I don't get out of this. My daughters don't want anything to do with their mother either. It's too bad your father can't wake up.
The bait my N always throws at me - and it worked for years - was to pretend to be interested in something that was important to me, then either trash it or trash my talent in it. For example, pretending to be interested in gardening - then telling me I was wasting money, time and "it looks ugly anyway".
Max
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What a topic this is. All the posts are so interesting and insightful. I would like to comment on all of them but will limit myself and try to keep my post to under a page!...Maybe being way too sensitive here but never want anyone to feel that they weren't heard!
I think Singer, you mentioned that you are trying to work out the impact of it all on you and your original family. (hey using colour is fun) How are your relationships with any brothers and sisters?
The rage that you and others refer to - the need to diminish everyone else; my mother can't seem to find a kind word about anyone. One day my husband just said he wasn't going to listen to it anymore and she has improved a little since then - perhaps just finding more devious ways to convey her thoughts. Such bitterness these people carry around - in mother's case I think she expected to be continuously worshipped throughout her life and when it didn't happen (although I was left with the job and gave it a really good go!) she turned to trashing others - all part of the N way of behaving I guess. I am amazed and impressed that you can feel love for your mother Singer. I think I am trying to get there, it would make this stage of caretaking easier but "the love" is really deeply buried at the moment!
"the thought of me going on about my business is not acceptable." Does this mean - 'Don't you have a full interesting life because I certainly don't and so you shouldn't either'.- I have always felt I needed to hide anything nice in my life (friends for instance) because of her jealousy.
So true Dawning - N parents deny everything. It seems there is no real chance for them to learn and grow. Attention, attention - they need to be hooked up to an IV full of it.
What a hoot Flower - I think you have a best seller on your hands! I know I'd buy several copies. You remind me also that I must get 'Trapped in the Mirror.' My mother still tells me that she didn't feel anything for my older brother and sister but when I was born it all came together, she felt "love." Iwish I understood this but I think it was simply because I reminded her of herself - dark hair etc. I know it's one of the major things at the root of this ghastly relationship.
Thanks for listening all
Les
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Hi everyone,
A#1 bait in my family is Guilt!! "If you were a good girl, you do as I say! What is wr-r-rong with you?" Ouch. Hurts just to type that. :cry:
The bait my N-SIL used was to borrow stuff and not return it, so we'd have to visit to get it back. Then it was free tickets from the office. Then it was access to my brother and/or nephew. You know, "family togetherness". Ick.
A red flag I have with other non-related covert Ns is when someone asks a question as though they are truly interested (the set-up) and if you answer enthusiastically, they answer with a withering "good for yooou" (spike!). Buh-bye!
Oh I loved your bag o tricks, Flower! :D My SIL uses all of those! My dad uses the Doubtmaster, still does. No wonder my teachers would write "needs more confidence" on my report cards and my dad didn't do or say anything about it...he liked it that way!!!
Take care out there, Seeker 8)
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Add another to the guilt/manipulation brigade. Or maybe it's shaming..... I knew something wasn't right pretty early on on my marriage. But whenever I would make the slightest murmurings about leaving, my NH would hit me with something like......
"Yeah, that's you, a quitter. That's the way that you deal with everything, you just leave. You never work at anything. You never try to work things out. You just leave. You'll never have a real relationship because you're not willing to work at it."
So, since my personal history wasn't exactly stellar, of course I rose to the occasion, I didn't leave. I was going to be a better person. I kept trying to do better, read that as trying to please him. Until I caught him cheating on me. Even THEN I stayed because he was willing to get counseling. I fell for it again !!!! Color me stupid !!
So, by the time I finally DID wake up, I was a total wreck. But since I finally, really KNEW that he was poison, I DID actually leave. Hardest thing I ever did in my life. But I knew that if I didn't get out, I would die.
Fortunately, there IS life after N-World. I'm amazed to find that there really are people out there with no hidden agenda. That it isn't always pulling teeth. That you CAN have just a simple, pleasant good time. That real communication and compromise doesn't make you end up feeling like you were swindled.
So, don't bite the bait !!!!!! There's always a REALLY BIG HOOK under it !
Gingerpeach
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Flower
I love your bag of tricks! I may just draw some of them and make my own bag just to remind myself.
My N was able to sucker punch me over and over for years. Kind of like Charlie Brown being fooled once again that Lucy would hold the football for him to kick.
Max
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Hi again,
As Flower said,
So many interesting things you all say, I just can't resist commenting!
But where to start? So many of your experiences hit home. Flower, the info vacumn is my downfall. I always fall for that one, and being told how I lacked confidence. Seeker, I've also fallen for the borrowed stuff used as bait, but it doesn't have to be borrowed. It can be an old photograph, promised but never delivered, a book that I might have expressed an interest in ten years ago, or even a piece of misdirected junk mail.
Les asked,
How are your relationships with any brothers and sisters?
and got me thinking because that question has been troubling lately. I have a polite, but superficial relationship with both my brother and sister. We're like people who have been through an unexpected disaster together. We know we've shared something life changing, but we don't especially want to talk about it. My brother has a family with a wife and children of his own, and my sister has made family from friendships, which infuriates our mother even more than anything I've ever done, which is saying something.
The thing is, my Nmother never wanted to believe that she would become old. But if old is what she has to be, then she's going to play it to the hilt. Can't be a damsel in distress without plenty of villains.
Here we go again, different tune, same old song.
Singer
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Hello all,
Singer wrote
The thing is, my Nmother never wanted to believe that she would become old. But if old is what she has to be, then she's going to play it to the hilt.
My dad has just hit the Senior Zone big time, filling up his days with doctor appts and insisting my mother drive him. Oi! He second-guesses all his doctors because if they knew anything they would know what's wrong with him, which is nothing and yet, everything!!!
Max, I have often thought of poor Charlie Brown and Lucy duping him again at the start of football season. I have always hated that motif but didn't know why until recently. When I wish an N would change, I just think of Charlie and Lucy...isn't it funny that Charles Schulz chose Lucy to be the neighborhood shrink, too? :shock: :D She has all the answers, whether they are helpful or not!
Gingerpeach wrote:
Fortunately, there IS life after N-World. I'm amazed to find that there really are people out there with no hidden agenda. That it isn't always pulling teeth. That you CAN have just a simple, pleasant good time. That real communication and compromise doesn't make you end up feeling like you were swindled.
Hey GP great to hear from you :) and to hear such hopeful words! I believe there is an N epidemic in my area...I live in a hip, affluent area (I am not hip, not affluent) and all within seek and affirm the American Beauty, Pottern Barn cardboard lifestyle. ("I WILL sell this house today!")I get a little sick, trying to figure out the unwritten rules of self-appointed bluebloods and feeling like I stepped in the dog doo. Literally ill. It permeates the atmosphere. So I'm taking deep breaths (no not of the dog doo!!!) Fresh. Air. That's better.
Phew! Well, take care out there! Seeker
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Flower :o :) Please keep a notebook of all of the bag of tricks and write it out.. It's almost like a Children's tale already, (the ones meant to chill). You have such a clever way of putting things into word-pictures. Do you ever write anything for publication? This could be a good start. Develop it!
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Thanks for your comments Flower - sometimes I think I've extracted myself from this sticky soup, this sick relationship and for the most part I think I have...I've learned to stand my ground and take care of my sanity. Strange how doing that is so natural for some people and not even in the picture for others. Oh, you need my soul? -sure no problem, just a sec and I'll extract it for you. I feel like I was "spare parts" for my mother.
It feels selfish of me to go on about all this - I think I should have figured it out by now but since this is a forum to get it out and bare/bear witness to others struggling to do the same..I will push on.
Flower - you raised the question of what you would "owe" someone who felt "love" awaken because of you. God, what a murky swamp it is. I finally really get that it isn't/wasn/t love at all - it's some twisted, distorted emmeshment thing that I still can't fully grasp. I believe that my mother (big yuck approaching) 'fell in love' with me. Her jealousy over the years has been over the top. Her vendictiveness -just like a raging rejected lover. (MM if you read this and I have been over this before, please excuse my repetitive self - I do seem to be going round and round in circles!) There must be a book that deals with N mothers and these other twisted elements. Anybody know which one might deal with mothers consuming their children and calling it love?
Singer - yes, I'm not surprised that your relationships with your brother and sister are the way they are. Mine as well. That big "borg" mother Flower referred to needed everything to flow through her.
Ah me, there is a way out I'm sure but so many tunnels to crawl through today. Merci
Les
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My dearest Les,
(MM if you read this and I have been over this before, please excuse my repetitive self - I do seem to be going round and round in circles!)
No need to excuse you my sweet!! Why do you suppose you need excusing? I find your posts very heartfelt and have never thought you go round and round.
What's it like in the belly of the beauty queen whale? I think we have all felt swallowed to certain degrees by Nparents.
BTW my NMom contacted me by email today. I wonder if I should respond or not? I guess if I do, it will be short. But then she says my short replies "hurt" her. So maybe no reply. In any case I'm not feeling much about it....no gnashing of the teeth so to speak. It's just information which I have to make a decision about.
MM
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It feels selfish of me to go on about all this - I think I should have figured it out by now but since this is a forum to get it out and bare/bear witness to others struggling to do the same..I will push on.
I hope you do. It would be ironic if on a forum for voicelessness one would be faulted for expressing their thoughts. Although I know what you mean. Sometimes I think, "Oh Lord, there I go again!" and cringe inside when I see my name on a post.
God, what a murky swamp it is. I finally really get that it isn't/wasn/t love at all - it's some twisted, distorted emmeshment thing that I still can't fully grasp...
... sometimes I think I've extracted myself from this sticky soup, this sick relationship and for the most part I think I have...I've learned to stand my ground and take care of my sanity. Strange how doing that is so natural for some people and not even in the picture for others. Oh, you need my soul? -sure no problem, just a sec and I'll extract it for you. I feel like I was "spare parts" for my mother
Reading this made me feel almost ill. It describes so well how I've felt so many times, except I didn't realize what it was. Like nothing belonged to me, neither body nor soul. Makes me sick.
Given that, it might sound funny but thanks for putting it into words.
Singer
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...well pushing right along then!...thanks for the affirmation and support everyone. Hi MM! good to hear from you as well. As one of my first contacts I always feel a little more grounded when I see you've been around!
I am reading "Loving What Is" at the moment. There is much to learn here and even the title is helpful, I repeat it like a mantra. I won't try to describe the process here but reading the book at the very least has made me wonder how much I HANG ON to my angry feelings and to what extent I can let them go. I guess none of us wants to shlep this big load of anger and hurt around forever... but I think someone mentioned that identifying, validating and venting it all has to come before there is any chance of truly releasing it.
I guess forgiveness and reconciliation are on my "TO DO" list because I have to see my mother at least once a week. So understanding all the N stuff allows me to breathe and stay grounded. I can see that she was a victim and I am tired of being her victim. So I am trying to find it in me to be a little understanding, a little compassionate. Ok, big moment of honesty. I LIKE my anger. I like knowing that i was WRONGED. It gives me a sense that I am actually a person and actually alive and separate from her with my own feelings and thoughts. It is so much healthier than comatose girl, mute woman. But it isn't the end or at least it doesn't HAVE to be the end ... I believe it might be possible to push beyond this - I think of the Truth and Reconciliation hearings in South Africa. But then I think well, both sides had to try to speak the truth and own their part in it all.
So as I write this I am thinkng about the e-mail MM. Is there a small window of opportunity to move even a step or two in well....a different direction?...can't say I am advocating it because I know we are all at different stages in this journey. Ok out on a limb here. What do you think would happen if you wrote your mom a newsy e-mail? Does it feel like you will just providing her with more target practise. Don't mind me - a little projection going on here. I have to call my mother today and I really don't want to! I guess Bunny always says it succinctly. Do what is right for you. Does any part of you want more contact with Mother?
Flower, Singer sorry for the nausea inducing descriptions! But damn it's good to call a spade a spade -eh?
As far as seeing your names on the board, Flower, Singer and all- Lets all allow ourselves this one indulgence - to express ourselves when we need to. I guess there is an infinite supply of space out here, you aren't taking anyone else's place, and only those who want to read will. Hey maybe I'll get cracking and be bold enough to put up a new post!!
Les
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Hi Les,
I guess Bunny always says it succinctly. Do what is right for you. Does any part of you want more contact with Mother?
Bunny is a wise woman. But to answer your question. No. I don't feel that she has earned the right to any personal information and yes, she would use it against me in the future. And the funny thing is, I don't miss her. I used to miss what I would have liked her and needed her to be, but I don't even go there anymore. If I had my way, I would not ever speak to her again. I don't feel like I'm missing anything. I never had it to begin with and I've accepted that.
I have been on this journey of discovery for more than 10 years now. And I've already written out but not posted at least a half of a novel (letters to her). And of course I've been through the same things as most of the other posters in various stages. I am very resolute at this point.
I see your INFP personality coming out in that you are a "healer" type. I'm more like Hermione in the Harry Potter books and you are the boy wizard LOL. You are much nicer than I am.
Well that's the long answer to your short question. And I like seeing you on the board as well.
MM
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Hi flower, your bag of tricks had me thinking back and I wondered if you'd also experienced the Blame-thrower (no blame shall be attached to the N so it gets thrown around at someone else) and the Joy-swatter (every small winged bit of joy that creeps its way in gets flattened, unless it can be self-attributed to the N) . I'd been mulling these over for a while. Anyone else think of others? :lol:
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:idea:
Perhaps we could come up with a bag of remedies and a suit of armour for everybody else? How about the shield of blank looks (not reacting emotionally to the hook and line) or the instant mirror, repeating what the person in question has said and asking them to clarify exactly what they mean?
I'm currently experiencing the revelation of the telescope of insight.... you ask the person in question how they perceive someone who is of the same 'type'. It can be so revealing, remembering that the way we perceive others depends a lot on how we accept and perceive ourselves.
Rather like 'Judge and you too will be judged'
Or.... We do not see things as they are, but as we are. I think this last one is a quote from the Talmud? :)
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Whoops, got lost in thought for awhile.
Been thinking about this, among other things,
Ok out on a limb here. What do you think would happen if you wrote your mom a newsy e-mail? Does it feel like you will just providing her with more target practise.
Yes. But sometimes I do call even though I know now that I do it to fill a need of my own. Part of me won’t let go of the fantasy that we can communicate. So I make the call knowing full well that anything I say can and will be held against me. And twisted and repeated as fact.
Plus there’s the sense of responsibility. But I’m beginning to think I might be wrong about that too. I’m beginning to realize that I’ve overestimated myself. My elderly nMother has already emotionally discarded me. That’s so hard for me to face. I might manage to remain in her consciousness, but I’ll never be a person of value to her. Got to tell myself to just GET OVER IT! Then I’ve got to listen. Then detach and just do what needs to be done as far as the responsibility. Works in theory; hurts like hell in reality. :(
As far as seeing your names on the board, Flower, Singer and all- Lets all allow ourselves this one indulgence - to express ourselves when we need to. I guess there is an infinite supply of space out here, you aren't taking anyone else's place, and only those who want to read will.
That’s true, but old habits die hard. As a kid I was always the last to speak up, as an adult the last to commit to an opinion. I found out the hard way that that can be every bit as annoying to people as the opposite. Problem is where to draw the line. I was raised in an all or nothing emotional evironment and it’s difficult to stop thinking in terms of extremes. The good news is now that I'm pretty old myself I really don't mind annoying people anymore. :)
Singer
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Howdy all,
I know this is an older thread but I wanted to comment. I tried to say my peace in another thread but the integrity of the thread was violated.
I told in a former post that I own a business with 4 other partners. Sometimes it's hard to deal with that many personalities. But I noticed that one of the partners was always getting offended. Of course when that happens, all discussion kind of comes to a halt. I had to realize that this was a pattern...."I'm offended", followed by everyone's silence and inappropriate guilt. I finally figured this out thank goodness. This person is really pretty nice, but this one feature of her personality is bad for our business.
But My Mom uses this getting offended thing too. Maybe another word would be to shame. I guess it's the same thing. It's something to watch out for none the less in what result it produces. I now call her on this and she doesn't use it as much since she can't get away with it. My addition to the bag o tricks is carpet bagger.
Thanks you all for letting me speak. I'm finding my voice better now.
Renee
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This thread has done me a lot of good actually even if it is old.
Of course, for years I thought something was wrong with me for I have been told all my life this everytime I did something for myself without asking permission first, first by mother, then x husband who was doing this to control my finances. I divorced him finally after waking up and that is finally history as of one year ago. But, right after that, I started traveling a bit in order to heal, something mother could not handle for she was not in control of me. So, she started again with the be-littling comments of old but this time I recognized them for what they are. But, it has been hard putting up the mirror shield, for I have never done this before with her. But it is getting easier to do so. And I am motivated beyond belief!!!!!!!
She is a master at passive manipulation. Keeps telling me when she feels insecure that there is something wrong with my thyroid, my weight, my faith, my choice of clothes, my house is not decorated right, etc. Just name it and there has been a comment. She says she tells me these things because she knows I would like to know when it is not right! LOL I have had thyroid tested even and it is working fine, thank you! My home is in shades of white, green and blue, which is nice, and my religion is rather on the mystical side of Christianity, something she cannot relate to at all. She holds money inheritance over our heads in very passive ways, for instance saying, "Inheritance is a priviledge not a right of birth so it is best not to stray far from the family fold." But the worst thing was that she went behind my back to my adult children for 1.5 years during the horrendous divorce without me knowing it trying to put a wedge between us. The entire time she was telling me that they were drifting from me...something she wanted to happen for my father had recently died and she was trying to "attach" to them in a N way. My x did this with our daughter, not our son, for the same reason. Son, bless him, would have no part of it and now slowly the daughter is seeing things for the truth in the situation.
Probably I have talked too long, but I simply needed to vent. Just spent a week with her while she recovered from a stroke and I am about done. I shall not be with her by myself again. Just not worth it.
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Hi gardener,
Thanks for your comments! People have told me I should write a book on this and that. I really should put it all down someday. Thanks for the encouragement!
Hi Les,
I appreciate your description of "love" ala N style. Phew! You put it down in a very excellent way. It made me a little sick also kinda like it did Singer. I find your posts valuable. Thanks!
There must be a book that deals with N mothers and these other twisted elements. Anybody know which one might deal with mothers consuming their children and calling it love?
Yeah, I wish there was an easy to read book out there that gave insight into all this. :idea: I'm sure many of you have read the book "Mommie Dearest". That came to mind as a book that fits that category although it is only from poor Crawford's daughter's point of view. That book was a doozy. One thing that got me was that at first Joan Crawford called her adopted baby daughter Joan Jr.
Hi MM,
I'm not feeling much about it....no gnashing of the teeth so to speak. It's just information which I have to make a decision about. MM
I sometimes have your attitude i.e. just information that you need to deal with. Then she fills my head again somehow. Time to deprogram myself.... again.
My head will reset and my memories will start to fade of her abuse. No kidding. She had a lot of bait I fell for before I woke up. She baited me to get her supply of flattery, false attention, puffing up and then she would poke me and I would deflate. Over and over this happened. I feel like a dummy.
Hi Singer,
"there I go again!" and cringe inside when I see my name on a post
I feel self-conscience to see myself up there on the board. I think I look selfish. But I think I was raised to feel selfish if I expressed myself. There were times that I argued as a child and my mom let me have my way, but not without saying, "But, you better think about it!" So I was trained to feel bad if I got my way. By the time I was into my teens, I gave up on butting my head against the N brickwall and became compliant and depressed.
-
Hi gardener,
Thanks for your comments! People have told me I should write a book on this and that. I really should put it all down someday. Thanks for the encouragement!
Hi Les,
I appreciate your description of "love" ala N style. Phew! You put it down in a very excellent way. It made me a little sick also kinda like it did Singer. I find your posts valuable. Thanks!
There must be a book that deals with N mothers and these other twisted elements. Anybody know which one might deal with mothers consuming their children and calling it love?
[/b]
Hi,
There is a great book called "Children of Self-Absorbed Parents-Nism" that helped me. It helps expain the normal reaction of a child or an adult to this disfunctional behavior. The best info I got from it is that if you feel like your going crazy because of the ambiguous behavior, then your normal. Only N's and unhealthy people are not bothered by other N's. Whew!!!!
Yeah, I wish there was an easy to read book out there that gave insight into all this. :idea: I'm sure many of you have read the book "Mommie Dearest". That came to mind as a book that fits that category although it is only from poor Crawford's daughter's point of view. That book was a doozy. One thing that got me was that at first Joan Crawford called her adopted baby daughter Joan Jr.
Hi MM,
I'm not feeling much about it....no gnashing of the teeth so to speak. It's just information which I have to make a decision about. MM
I sometimes have your attitude i.e. just information that you need to deal with. Then she fills my head again somehow. Time to deprogram myself.... again.
My head will reset and my memories will start to fade of her abuse. No kidding. She had a lot of bait I fell for before I woke up. She baited me to get her supply of flattery, false attention, puffing up and then she would poke me and I would deflate. Over and over this happened. I feel like a dummy.
Hi Singer,
"there I go again!" and cringe inside when I see my name on a post
I feel self-conscience to see myself up there on the board. I think I look selfish. But I think I was raised to feel selfish if I expressed myself. There were times that I argued as a child and my mom let me have my way, but not without saying, "But, you better think about it!" So I was trained to feel bad if I got my way. By the time I was into my teens, I gave up on butting my head against the N brickwall and became compliant and depressed.
-
Hi gardener,
Thanks for your comments! People have told me I should write a book on this and that. I really should put it all down someday. Thanks for the encouragement!
Hi Les,
I appreciate your description of "love" ala N style. Phew! You put it down in a very excellent way. It made me a little sick also kinda like it did Singer. I find your posts valuable. Thanks!
There must be a book that deals with N mothers and these other twisted elements. Anybody know which one might deal with mothers consuming their children and calling it love?
[/b]
Hi,
There is a great book called "Children of Self-Absorbed Parents-Nism" that helped me. It helps expain the normal reaction of a child or an adult to this disfunctional behavior. The best info I got from it is that if you feel like your going crazy because of the ambiguous behavior, then your normal. Only N's and unhealthy people are not bothered by other N's. Whew!!!!
Kris
Yeah, I wish there was an easy to read book out there that gave insight into all this. :idea: I'm sure many of you have read the book "Mommie Dearest". That came to mind as a book that fits that category although it is only from poor Crawford's daughter's point of view. That book was a doozy. One thing that got me was that at first Joan Crawford called her adopted baby daughter Joan Jr.
Hi MM,
I'm not feeling much about it....no gnashing of the teeth so to speak. It's just information which I have to make a decision about. MM
I sometimes have your attitude i.e. just information that you need to deal with. Then she fills my head again somehow. Time to deprogram myself.... again.
My head will reset and my memories will start to fade of her abuse. No kidding. She had a lot of bait I fell for before I woke up. She baited me to get her supply of flattery, false attention, puffing up and then she would poke me and I would deflate. Over and over this happened. I feel like a dummy.
Hi Singer,
"there I go again!" and cringe inside when I see my name on a post
I feel self-conscience to see myself up there on the board. I think I look selfish. But I think I was raised to feel selfish if I expressed myself. There were times that I argued as a child and my mom let me have my way, but not without saying, "But, you better think about it!" So I was trained to feel bad if I got my way. By the time I was into my teens, I gave up on butting my head against the N brickwall and became compliant and depressed.
-
Hi gardener,
Thanks for your comments! People have told me I should write a book on this and that. I really should put it all down someday. Thanks for the encouragement!
Hi Les,
I appreciate your description of "love" ala N style. Phew! You put it down in a very excellent way. It made me a little sick also kinda like it did Singer. I find your posts valuable. Thanks!
There must be a book that deals with N mothers and these other twisted elements. Anybody know which one might deal with mothers consuming their children and calling it love?
[/b]
Hi,
There is a great book called "Children of Self-Absorbed Parents-Nism" that helped me. It helps expain the normal reaction of a child or an adult to this disfunctional behavior. The best info I got from it is that if you feel like your going crazy because of the ambiguous behavior, then your normal. Only N's and unhealthy people are not bothered by other N's. Whew!!!!
Kris
Yeah, I wish there was an easy to read book out there that gave insight into all this. :idea: I'm sure many of you have read the book "Mommie Dearest". That came to mind as a book that fits that category although it is only from poor Crawford's daughter's point of view. That book was a doozy. One thing that got me was that at first Joan Crawford called her adopted baby daughter Joan Jr.
Hi MM,
I'm not feeling much about it....no gnashing of the teeth so to speak. It's just information which I have to make a decision about. MM
I sometimes have your attitude i.e. just information that you need to deal with. Then she fills my head again somehow. Time to deprogram myself.... again.
My head will reset and my memories will start to fade of her abuse. No kidding. She had a lot of bait I fell for before I woke up. She baited me to get her supply of flattery, false attention, puffing up and then she would poke me and I would deflate. Over and over this happened. I feel like a dummy.
Hi Singer,
"there I go again!" and cringe inside when I see my name on a post
I feel self-conscience to see myself up there on the board. I think I look selfish. But I think I was raised to feel selfish if I expressed myself. There were times that I argued as a child and my mom let me have my way, but not without saying, "But, you better think about it!" So I was trained to feel bad if I got my way. By the time I was into my teens, I gave up on butting my head against the N brickwall and became compliant and depressed.