Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: gratitude28 on January 28, 2008, 09:49:10 AM
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My mother is the N...
But my father is the one who plays the Pretending Game and the Guess What I Need Or I will Be Sad Game...
When we go to their house, thereis no room for a family of four, besides the fact tht it smells and to move an inch is to knock over a pile of something or step in something filthy. But we must pretend it is fine and fun adn there is nothing out of the ordinary.
In regards to my mother, we are supposed to pretend she is a kind and sweet mother and grandmother.
We pretend that Dad is on a diet, and the daily treats are exceptions...
For the Guessing Game, we are supposed to do what Dad wants by taking hints and making him happy. i.e., we are going out to dinner... Dad wants Korean, but won't say it. We are supposed to know this and go and it will please him.
My dad is the nicer and kinder of my parents, and actually loving. But he has been brought up by a sick woman and married one.
Do you all have Games like this??????
Love, Beth
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((((((Beth)))))) yes, that whole scenario is sickeningly familiar... practiced in various styles and methods throughout my family, growing up.
It's terrible to feel like you have all that rubbish clinging to you...
I can only say that practicing new ways and positive affirmations, with conscious deliberateness, is the best I know to do... constantly claiming the fact that the way they are need not reflect on who we are now.
Carolyn
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Thank you, Carolyn. I am actually OK with just about everything nowadays. I still am amazed when I make a realization of this sort, though... and I hope my recognition will help someone else see it as well. Our families are so subtle in their workings that it is sometimes hard t pin down exactly where the problem was/is. I was shocked when my parents last visited and I understood this about my father. I always wonder how we could survivie, believing we were like (or, in their case, better than) other people... and this is part of it.
Thanks again for the affirmation.
Love, Beth
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You're welcome, Beth. Sometimes I wonder whether I'm really okay with all this stuff or is it just that there's not much left that could surprise me. lol. oy.
But then other times, I think... I cannot possibly take another glimpse deeper, another revelation of the magnitude of nonsense...
at this point, I've let another 6 weeks worth of their envelopes pile up. That seems to be about my limit, before the guilt overladens me. These large manilla envelopes are all my dad's doing. Mother only writes a very short note and dad stuffs the envelope with all sorts of odds and ends to make it seem like really quite something. Now that's pretending.
It's very odd, to say the least.
Love to you,
Carolyn
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Last year, there were a group of kids that were horrible, they were constantly fighting, disrespectful, etc. But everybody in the school pretended that they were nice, like denial.
Many marriages live in decieving the outside world, just pretending they are married, and they are not even room mates nor friends.
I used to work in a school in wich the principal was involved with one of the teachers, and that teacher was married with another teacher, that teacher also worked with us in the same school, and everybody pretended not to know anything.
I know a mother who pretended that nothing happened when her children were being abused by her husband.
When I did my internship in a hospital, there was a doctor who had sex with almost all the nurses, and we just left the office when we knew that the nurse in turn came in. Nobody talked about it. We just pretended nothing happened.
Many silenced rules, secret, unspoken rules. Nobody has to tell you.
Except when you are confused and raised by an N mother who isolated you and you do not know the secret rules and you screw up every where.
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and how about the fat woman, who is asking how to get more sexy and you just want to tell her, just lose weight, but she buys more clothe and puts more make up, and the only thing she needs is to lose weight, but nobody tells her.
How about the person that has bad breath and nobody tells her.
I think that the whole world is a farse. Nothing and nobody is real.
Sometimes I think that honesty does not exist.
I have hear so many teachers saying how much they love thier job, when I know for sure they dont.
Everything in this life if pretending. Life is difficult, then you have to pretend it is not, then you die. The end.
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And dont get me started in pretending marriages.
I remember a friend who said, I stay married because who is going to give me the money he gives me. We knew later that she was the one who was giving him money.
My mother was married to my father for 12 years, he was abusive to her and to me, not to my brother and sister. My mother said that she stayed married to him because of our well being. So we could have a father.Yeah, right.
My grand father said that he did not leave my grand mother because of his daughters. They grew up and married, then he said he did not leave her because of the grand children. LOL.
The world is farse.
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Hello Lupita:
I have to agree with a lot of what you say. People just do not speak up, for some strange reason they have a fear of being honest, or they think that what they say will be taken up the wrong way. The example of the fat person: people are afraid to tell her to lose some weight in case they are perceived to be criticising her "fatness". People are just plain scared of saying anything. Outspoken people get a bad press LOL.
All the best
Hermes
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Our family takes the cake. All my life we have pretended to be the perfect Christian family. Although my bro and I have pretty much blown that fasade. My mom and aunt do not have any friends and I used to not. Just a bunch of acquaintances. It is like the family is our only friends. I think my mom does not want anyone to get too close so they can see how it really is.
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What a thread!
With my parents,now, I can be honest, strangely enough. On my M's last visit, I got' in her face" and told ALL--about N and everything else I needed to say. She recieved it and started to treat me with respect. IF she violates me, which she does, I get" in her face," and tell her that she won't be in my life ,if she can't treat me right.
I did that the other night.
I think that my experience is unusual. My M, a therapist, may have learned s/thing along the way from ALL those psycholgy books.Also, she has been in Al-Anon for 14 years b/c of my B's drug addiction.She needed to know that she would be "out" if she couldn't treat me right. *I* needed to know that I deserved respect and kindness.
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Dear Lupita,
Again, I admire your openness and honesty. You may not say what people wish to hear, nonetheless, it is the truth.
> Pretence
> Patronizing
> Denial
Is all about False Self, and being False, wearing a mask, to appease, and appear pleasant, to the eye, or ear.
All of which, is Shallowness, empty vanity, outwardly displayed.
They will tell you that they cannot help it, cannot stop doing it; but, is that true?
Has nothing to do with life and living, rather, quite the opposite.
That's it you see, the hidden rule is; "speaking what the other wants to hear" In essence, it's all a Lie, which breathes foul.
As opposed to, being real, being authentic, speaking life enhancing, honesty (with consideration), which breathes life in itself.
Such is the real difference.
Love, Leah
> The Game of Pretending ~~~ is an Act.
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Lea, you could not put it ine better words.
It is like you read my mind and translated in to words.
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Thanks, Lupita
As you may have gathered, Falseness, is, and always has been, somewhat of a thorn in my side. Games of Pretence.
Seen too much hurt and pain, done against others, and also, have personally endured.
Leah
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(((( Beth ))))
Sincere empathy and understanding, as I had to endure Games of Pretence with my FOO. One most recent example, some time ago now, is when doing the garden for my NM and she would not tell me where to plant out. I would say, patiently, "where would you like this plant?" to which I would receive a continual response of "I'm not saying" which she kept up till dusk, then told me to go home, as it was getting dark, with strict orders for the following day. The Game was, to extend the process, to control my time, to control the entire event, for her own personal gratification.
Together, we could write a book, I would think.
Thoughts of you,
Leah
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Yes, Leah, that sounds about right - your example. I bet we could write a book - an awful one - lol. I think you hit it on the button when you said the game is 'control.' Not allowing you to know what sheeds is a way of keeping you jumping and concerned... blech...
Lupita, Wow, I hit a button for you. I hope it will give you a chance to examine how this idea controls you. Do you think it does somewhat? There IS a lot of falsity... and in all the areas you mentioned. How and why do people do this? A lot of it is to make excuses for their rotten choices (yor mom must have felt or known she did wrong, but gave her excuse to you as an explanation so that she could allay her guilt). As for school, the games are ridiculous. Some kids need to be told, 'You are screwing up and you are doing it to yourself. Grow up.' But no one does this. They instead create a new program to make the student 'feel good about himself.' Lupita, I felt better about life when I became honest with myself. And it made me stronger. For most of my life I lied to myself. Once I owned up to my real intentions an behaviors, I was less upset about others'. I don't know if that makes sense to you, but that is one thing that helped me.
Ami, sounds like you are usinhonesty and 'tough love' and it has had a positive outcome for you!!!!!! Kudos!!!!!!
Hermes, I think there is a difference between honesty and tact too. If you let the fat person know because you want him/her to be healthy and happier, then your honesty (nicely approached) should not be faulted. It is annoying, for sure, to have a person complain outright about the one thing he COULD change. That is when it is a game. And I don't think the person is open to lstening then, no matter what you say.
Carolyn (((((((((((((((()))))))))))))), good luck opening the envelopes. I say I am good with things, but once in a while I still get blindsided. As you sid, you think you know it all, and they still get to you!!!
Thanks everyone for continuing the topic and bringing up some really good ideas... It helps me so much when I can pick these things out and realize I am not imagining it all.
Love, Beth
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Beth,
Just read the first post and had to reply before reading any others. When I was a child everything in my life felt like pretend. I could not be bothered even thinking about it but when I was 11 years old, i remember the day, the place, I resolved when I grew up I would not pretend anything. I have lived in this way, sometimes to my cost, there were times when saying nothing would have been more appropriate! but this resolution also got me out of bad places. It helped me save myself and my soul. XN wanted more than anything me to pretend everything was ok and normal.......I could not and would not and I got away.
axa
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Hello Gratitude:
Heh heh, you did make me smile. No matter how caringly you try to help the overweight person see that the overweight is not good for their help, they immediately get uptight. Of course, in cases of very overweight people, there is some kind of underlying emotional problem at play too.
A friend of mine has a very over-weight daughter. This girl is about 30 now. Already her knees are giving trouble because of her weight. Her mother, my friend, has tried speaking nicely to her about it, and as my friend says: "She nearly cut the nose off me for even broaching the subject". So now she says nothing. It is a pity.
I was at their house one day, and the daughter was there too, visiting. We all had a very fine and copious dinner, bI could see that daughter went back over to the cooker and filled up with yet more potatoes and whatever.
Afterwards, there was coffee, and a lovely cake. One piece of it was more than enough for the rest of us, including the men at the table. As we chatted I noticed daughter going over to the kitchen counter, and getting herself another huge slice of the cake. There was no way she could have been hungry after all the food she already had.
She has been to an endocrinologist who found there was no imbalance or any other metabolic problem (she had been hoping to hear there was!).
What can you say to someone like that?!
All the best
Hermes
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Hermes,
Like with any addicted person, you hope that they will come to their senses and see that they are hurting themselves. I think that any person deliberately hurting him/herself has to stop and look for the true root of the problem.
Love, Beth
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I wanted to add here that I was guilty of this for a LONG time. I used to judge people by my 'intention.' In other words, they could be doing exactly what I did, and I would judge them for doing the thing. Now that I am in a Live and Let Live frame... I do better with other people's choices. I do not feel responsible. I have learned a child's lesson as an adult - worry about yourself!! LOL. I am teaching myself the lessons I teach my kids, since I didn't have them.
Love, Beth
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I wanted to add here that I was guilty of this for a LONG time. I used to judge people by my 'intention.' In other words, they could be doing exactly what I did, and I would judge them for doing the thing. Now that I am in a Live and Let Live frame... I do better with other people's choices. I do not feel responsible. I have learned a child's lesson as an adult - worry about yourself!! LOL. I am teaching myself the lessons I teach my kids, since I didn't have them.
Love, Beth
Dear Beth,
Yes! And there's such a sense of liberation about this approach... and the glow of good health!
I think you're a great teacher.
((((((((Beth))))))))))
Love,
Carolyn
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Hello Gratitude:
Heh heh, you did make me smile. No matter how caringly you try to help the overweight person see that the overweight is not good for their help, they immediately get uptight. Of course, in cases of very overweight people, there is some kind of underlying emotional problem at play too.
A friend of mine has a very over-weight daughter. This girl is about 30 now. Already her knees are giving trouble because of her weight. Her mother, my friend, has tried speaking nicely to her about it, and as my friend says: "She nearly cut the nose off me for even broaching the subject". So now she says nothing. It is a pity.
I was at their house one day, and the daughter was there too, visiting. We all had a very fine and copious dinner, bI could see that daughter went back over to the cooker and filled up with yet more potatoes and whatever.
Afterwards, there was coffee, and a lovely cake. One piece of it was more than enough for the rest of us, including the men at the table. As we chatted I noticed daughter going over to the kitchen counter, and getting herself another huge slice of the cake. There was no way she could have been hungry after all the food she already had.
She has been to an endocrinologist who found there was no imbalance or any other metabolic problem (she had been hoping to hear there was!).
What can you say to someone like that?!
All the best
Hermes
I agree issues of overweight are often based in emotional problems. As someone who has yo-yo dieted for 20 years, I am often puzzled by why I engage in self-sabotage and always regain the weight. Having become aware of NPD has made me even more curious recently. My mom, in her 80s, is anorexic. She and my other 2 sisters are all skinny, narcissistic control freaks who probably have OCD as well. My mother's only sibling, her younger sister, my aunt and I got quite close by telephone for about 4 years before she died. (We lived in different states). I am so happy I had a chance to talk with her at length and learn about the patterns of my Nmom's FOO. My aunt shocked me by telling me her mother "absolutely hated" her and tried to kill her, this conversation was the beginning of our getting close and building a relationship. Some of the puzzle pieces began to fall into place! My Nmom grew up in a family where her own mom LOVED her (daughter number 1) and despised my aunt (daughter number 2). Guess what, my mom doted on my older sis, number 1, and despised me, number 2. My aunt struggled to lose weight her entire life, unsuccessfully. I can remember years of observing my mother's snide, cruel, smug, self-aggrandizing, destructive, proud, off-hand and not so off-hand comments and comparisons about their differences in weight. My mom has been doing the same thing to me for years. It is like somehow, with regard to my overweight, I have my mom's voice inside me. Either I do not believe at my core that I can successfully be thin or I believe at my core I don't deserve to be, not sure. I just know that I finally see the truth that my overweight is very much Nsupply for my Nmother. I do not know if I will ever be able to get control of my weight for the sake of doing it for me or deserving it for me. I feel trapped in the body she has created for me. I wear my failure as a daughter on my frame, as a fat suit, every day of my life....
Violet
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A friend of mine has a very over-weight daughter.......
I was at their house one day, and the daughter was there too, visiting. We all had a very fine and copious dinner, bI could see that daughter went back over to the cooker and filled up with yet more potatoes and whatever.
Afterwards, there was coffee, and a lovely cake. One piece of it was more than enough for the rest of us, including the men at the table. As we chatted I noticed daughter going over to the kitchen counter, and getting herself another huge slice of the cake. There was no way she could have been hungry after all the food she already had.
Hermes
I wonder if she truly is hungry for something deep inside herself, like acceptance from others and herself for being a real person in spite of her weight, a real person who cries, bleeds, thinks, feels, rages, hurts, wants, etc., just like all the thin people. Maybe she knows she is doomed to be rejected so just uses food to comfort herself in a very visceral way. It is a mighty powerful comfort, BTW. Maybe she was left in her crib hours and hours, day by day, when she was hungry, wet or lonely and is still trying to feed that little sad baby inside.... Just some thoughts..... Violet
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A friend of mine has a very over-weight daughter.......
I was at their house one day, and the daughter was there too, visiting. We all had a very fine and copious dinner, bI could see that daughter went back over to the cooker and filled up with yet more potatoes and whatever.
Afterwards, there was coffee, and a lovely cake. One piece of it was more than enough for the rest of us, including the men at the table. As we chatted I noticed daughter going over to the kitchen counter, and getting herself another huge slice of the cake. There was no way she could have been hungry after all the food she already had.
Hermes
I wonder if she truly is hungry for something deep inside herself, like acceptance from others and herself for being a real person in spite of her weight, a real person who cries, bleeds, thinks, feels, rages, hurts, wants, etc., just like all the thin people. Maybe she knows she is doomed to be rejected so just uses food to comfort herself in a very visceral way. It is a mighty powerful comfort, BTW. Maybe she was left in her crib hours and hours, day by day, when she was hungry, wet or lonely and is still trying to feed that little sad baby inside.... Just some thoughts..... Violet
Violet, you have clearly conveyed, my very thoughts. Leah
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I've never known a single overweight person who "needed" another person to tell them, you need to lose weight.
Not one.
Hops
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Gosh. My post got lost in cyber-space!
My friend's daughter got married a couple of years back, to a very nice guy, and she works herself outside the home, quite long hours in fact.
I am pretty sure her parents were good to her as a baby and as a child. In fact she was a very slim child, did swimming at competition level, very active.
However, I remember her mother did once say to me that her daughter told her she started to put on weight after she broke up with a man she had been dating for quite a while. She went abroad to work at that time, and said she started to gain weight then.
That could be it, I suppose.
Then again, she met her present husband, quite a number of years back, and as I say, they married two or three years ago. She desperately wanted to lose weight for her wedding day, but was unable to do so. So, it is difficult to know where the problem lies.
All the best
Hermes