Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Violet on January 29, 2008, 12:17:21 PM
-
Hello,
I just stumbled across the term NPD about 3 weeks ago, searching for information on abusive spouses for a friend who is going through a nasty divorce. Holy Cow, my mother meets ALL the criteria for NPD! I always thought I was struggling with so many issues because of being the adult codependent child of 2 physically abusive alcoholics, but something just always seemed to be missing. When I started reading about NPD and realized THAT is my mother!!!! and THAT explains why she has been making me nearly insane for 50 years and starting to realize that I have been trying to figure out what is wrong with me and why can't I get anything right, and just hearing all of the voices of pain, frustration, and rage and sadness in all of your posts, I know I probably belong here and probably need some help.
Honestly, I do not think I have much to give anyone right now, I am just so drained. Just putting a face and a name to all of this is so overwhelming; I have been crying in secret for about 3 weeks now, several times a day. I have been reading ALL the posts going back from the beginning (I am in mid-August 2005, so far). I am just so lost and yet sort of hopeful, too. My emotions are running crazy, I have been journaling for about 3 weeks now, writing down my memories as they come to me, very cathartic but also pretty threatening. The realization that I have lived my life without my own voice (indeed, without even understanding or believing that I had a need to have my own voice and a right, too) has made so many puzzling behaviors and patterns and conflicts much more clear. I bought a bunch of books from Amazon that were on the recommended list and am presently reading "Toxic Parents" by Forward. I have not yet reached the section on what to do about all this, and being a pragmatist, I am looking forward to getting some answers and some help. Gosh, I feel in some ways that I am peeling away a bunch of layers of my life and self and am so frightened there is NOTHING underneath it all.
I will try to post my story when I get it the way I want it and edit it down to a cohesive whole. I read it about once every other day and alternate between feeling like I am just a self-absorbed whiner and thinking, wow, how did I survive all that? I just feel so confused, and unsure, my DH knows I am learning about this, he has read the DSM lV criteria, and absolutely concurs it is my mother to a "T" and is being supportive as I read and learn and "meltdown." I find it interesting that I more or less "discovered" or "developed" strategies for dealing with my Nmother over the years like moving more than 1000 miles away, holding the phone away from my ear when I hear something "triggering" coming; I only buy gifts for her that are emotionally "neutral" for me (she never approves of my gifts unless I send money, jewelry or flowers, usually gives them to "the cleaning lady" or sends them back to me), I just went to see her this past summer for the first time in ten years, etc., etc. That was tough, she is in her 80s and still going Nstrong!
Anyway, I hope I can offer something helpful to the board, but don't count on it, cause I feel really, really weak and tired right now. Like exhausted.... I am retired from social work and have thought about going back to school to study something, just cause I am not sure what to do with myself, but want to work on some of these unresolved problems first. BTW, I have 2 grown children (whom I love dearly) and I am VERY afraid my younger son is a full blown N, which causes me a great deal of fear and guilt, as I now know it was my own insanity that made him that way, even though I never wanted to be like my Nmom. Fear, terror, outrage and submerged anger have been my inner demons.
One other thing. I do not meet the criteria for NPD (for example, I feel genuinely sorry when I hurt people and try to always take responsibility for hurting or wronging others, and make amends, but I know I have not dealt well with my abusive past and feel certain these bad patterns have harmed my grown children, this makes me so sad...) but I do think Avoidant PD fits me very well.
Thanks for listening.
Violet
-
Hello Violet:
We look forward to hearing more from you.
Best wishes
Hermes
-
Gosh, I feel in some ways that I am peeling away a bunch of layers of my life and self and am so frightened there is NOTHING underneath it all.
Dear Violet,
As Amber said, you really are still in there... but boy, can I ever relate. Please be patient with yourself and share as you're able...
and Welcome!
Carolyn
-
Violet -
Honestly, I do not think I have much to give anyone right now,
I personally, believe that the board is good for both giving and receiving and not always at the same time. You take what you need and feel free to receive without realizing that you are giving. So often I find that people are actually giving when then think that are only receiving.
Glad you are here and finding something of value. - Gaining Strength
-
Welcome Violet,
Wonderful to have you here.
Just putting a face and a name to all of this is so overwhelming;
It is very difficult.
When I first found out about Narcissism, I couldn't believe it, there is a name for them????
It was scary and freeing at the same time. Nice to find out your not the crazy one after all. :)
Looking forward to getting to know you. Wishing you a time of healing. seasons
-
I don't know if I am using the message board correctly, to reply to you all but here goes.
Thank you all so much for your kind words of welcome. I appreciate the validation. Yes, I do feel crazy and have been thinking lately that I wish I had never heard about NPD; like I was managing okay without adding any more pain to my practically non-functional life. I read a post from way back that said something about someone woke up every day and said, "Good morning, Pain, how are you today" or some such. I have been practicing this. I am also finding I am questioning everything, including my long term, second marriage to my current DH, someone I always considered to be my "best friend" now I'm not so sure. He is kind, considerate and thoughtful, I am just the one going nuts at the moment.... Thanks again for the welcome.... Violet
-
I feel in some ways that I am peeling away a bunch of layers of my life and self and am so frightened there is NOTHING underneath it all.
welcome Violet and hang in there- the embryo life you discover inside yourself will truly be the butterfly, you'll see!
Love
~Write
-
A Warm Welcome ~ Violet
Glad you are here and please know
that you are valued and appreciated.
Love, Leah
-
Welcome Violet.I am glad that you are here. You sound like you fit right in, from describing your experience.
I hope that you keep writing and sharing. Love , Ami
-
I have been crying in secret for about 3 weeks now, several times a day.
Please continue to embrace your tears, hug yourself and know that people care and wish to extend compassion to you.
there is a quote, favorite of mine, is goes: "tears wash our eyes so that we can see the world better."
Anyway, I hope I can offer something helpful to the board
You already have offered a lot to the board, hearing your story helps me to know that I'm not alone as well as you articulate very well your pain and experience - this is helpful to to hear. I hope that you find that writing out your thoughts and feelings can be healing as well as others WILL relate.
(((Violet)))
-
I don't know if I am using the message board correctly, to reply to you all but here goes.
Thank you all so much for your kind words of welcome. I appreciate the validation. Yes, I do feel crazy and have been thinking lately that I wish I had never heard about NPD; like I was managing okay without adding any more pain to my practically non-functional life. I read a post from way back that said something about someone woke up every day and said, "Good morning, Pain, how are you today" or some such. I have been practicing this. I am also finding I am questioning everything, including my long term, second marriage to my current DH, someone I always considered to be my "best friend" now I'm not so sure. He is kind, considerate and thoughtful, I am just the one going nuts at the moment.... Thanks again for the welcome.... Violet
Oh, dear Violet... learning about npd brings about the beginning of some foundation-shattering revelations.
Please, please just be very kind and gentle and patient with yourself, especially now.
Your words about questioning your current spouse really struck my heart, because I've been going through so much of that.
A late bloomer, as always, as I wake up to the true condition of my own self as a result of all this old stuff, I've called into question each
and every decision I've made and relationship that's been formed... and it's exhausting.
It's okay to pull back a bit from people while you adjust to the new contrasts of your vision... and it's perfectly alright to not try to sort it all at once! As things come into better focus, the ragged edges smooth a bit... but for right now, you're seeing the entire world through a different lens... and everything can appear to be doubtful, shaky.
When you realize that nothing you've ever known was truly as it seemed, that's so disorienting... but you really are still you. And down beneath all the accumulations of stuff that's been heaped on over the years, your light is still shining. The fact that you found your way here to learn and to write... that's not chopped liver :)
Take good care and know that you'll find lots of listening ears here.
With love,
Carolyn
-
Hi Violet,
For me, the realization about my Nmother was a great shock and at the same time, a great relief.
After the ... well, I actually think of it as horror ... of the condition really sank in, then after a while, I began to feel such relief at knowing there was a NAME for what was wrong, and information, and survival stories and strategies, and new ways to see my life (and hers), etc.
On balance, I'd rather know. I hope that turns out to be true for you too.
Hops
-
Hello Violet,
I too am relatively new here (I was Ann2, but now I’m Ann3). I love what you wrote, you described the experience of discovering NPD so well: the shock of discovering NPD, feeling like my life prior to discovering NPD was lived in a dream, an illusion or delusion, in another dimension. Who was I then? Who am I now? How did I get here? Where do I go now? Where do I want to go now? How do I handle people from my pre-discovery life? It’s like waking from a nightmare, so confusing and disorienting.
I also love what Carolyn wrote about foundation shattering revelations, learning to be patient with ourselves, questioning every decision, feeling exhausted, learning that nothing we knew was truly as it seemed and being disoriented.
It’s so good to feel that others feel this way too. I underwent counseling after my divorce and my mother’s death, but my counselor, as good as she was, never mentioned NPD. I found out about NPD by searching the internet and reading books. It all seems like a lifetime ago, when I lived in that other dimension, that other world. Now I feel like I’m living a new life, seeing people differently than I had before. I bet as you peel away the layers, you will find a new you, but you are definitely there, I can hear it in your voice.
-
Your words about questioning your current spouse really struck my heart, because I've been going through so much of that.
A late bloomer, as always, as I wake up to the true condition of my own self as a result of all this old stuff, I've called into question each
and every decision I've made and relationship that's been formed... and it's exhausting.
Yes, precisely. Thank you, Carolyn, I am exhausted but better today. I think my mind is a bit clearer. I do not feel as desperate as I did yesterday, but for some reason I am shaking inwardly a lot, it is weird and also biting my fingernails down to the quick, something I have not done since I was a kid? V
-
welcome Violet and hang in there- the embryo life you discover inside yourself will truly be the butterfly, you'll see!
Love
~Write
Thank you, Write, how kind of you and how encouraging. V
-
Welcome Violet.I am glad that you are here. You sound like you fit right in, from describing your experience.
I hope that you keep writing and sharing. Love , Ami
Thank you so much, Ami. It does feel wonderful to find others who know what I am feeling who understand. This is what has made so much of my life such a struggle, just knowing my inward life and thoughts and ways of relating to the world are so completely different from everyone else I meet. What relief to find this board! Violet
-
Hello Violet,
I too am relatively new here (I was Ann2, but now I’m Ann3). I love what you wrote, you described the experience of discovering NPD so well: the shock of discovering NPD, feeling like my life prior to discovering NPD was lived in a dream, an illusion or delusion, in another dimension. Who was I then? Who am I now? How did I get here? Where do I go now? Where do I want to go now? How do I handle people from my pre-discovery life? It’s like waking from a nightmare, so confusing and disorienting.
I also love what Carolyn wrote about foundation shattering revelations, learning to be patient with ourselves, questioning every decision, feeling exhausted, learning that nothing we knew was truly as it seemed and being disoriented.
It’s so good to feel that others feel this way too. I underwent counseling after my divorce and my mother’s death, but my counselor, as good as she was, never mentioned NPD. I found out about NPD by searching the internet and reading books. It all seems like a lifetime ago, when I lived in that other dimension, that other world. Now I feel like I’m living a new life, seeing people differently than I had before. I bet as you peel away the layers, you will find a new you, but you are definitely there, I can hear it in your voice.
Hi, Ann3, thank you for the encouragement and thoughtfulness. I live just to feel hope; when it seems far away or nonexistent, I just fold up and want to die. I sort of felt hopeless yesterday, it was incredibly painful. Today, I feel like I have found a home of sorts, of like minded, sensitive, beautiful souls. I think this is such an attractive, serene, golden quality, this genuine caring empathy, which is just flowing in this message board. It is delightful and intoxicating, this feeling that other people understand! I have such an overwhelming need for empathy, sort of like how I physically need water. This is something that has always hurt me so deeply in my FOO, this just NOT caring about others, this cruelty, this cold, sinister lack of empathy. I am so happy I found this board. So very happy.... V
-
Oh yes I know what you mean Violet. To always be wrong, shut out and shut down and yet to always be used for your empathy too.
Recently, I did something I have never done before. I made an appointment with an intuitive, like Carolyn Myss if you have heard of her? But not her, of course. Though this person was not a medical intuitive. Anyway, I went into it with an attitude of - I want to seek anything and everything to advance and learn and grow, especially anything that will help me conquer shame, be a better person, be wiser - you know.
Anyway, afterward what I found shocking was that she absolutely saw me. She experienced me. It has been a revelation to me because until I experienced it I did not realize how I so rarely experience it. I was shocked that I was shocked. Another shocking thing was - I am not so sure that I myself can experience me as straightforwardly as she did. I found it shocking that for her it is natural to really see people - still haven't gotten over it. And now I look around my regular environment and its denizens and am shocked how I've come to take for granted the lack of ability to see clearly, or even knowing they are not. It was amazing to be so seen, but it was disconcerting too. I think in some ways I have come to rely upon, to be used to, not being seen. Sort of like shoving all the mess in the closets - usually I don't even think of people noticing the closets.... Sorry to digress - your words about empathy and how nourishing it is (how despaired of!) inspired me to share that recent experience.
I agree there is so much empathy and insight and experience and wisdom here. Though, and I don't say this to take away from the board at all but to round out the impression, I don't think anyone will disagree with me if I observe - this board can be very turbulent sometimes! Misunderstandings or the way people who have never been free to go ahead and disagree have a skills deficit in disagreeing (how does one go about it - that's how I feel about myself - lack of skills), sometimes triggered if something expressed here sounds like the kind of things seen in the FOO. The learning is just incredible, from these things too. And the knowledge people share of the experience in these areas - it's amazing too. It's so helpful to listen to people who have the same life learning in this area - like a class for specialists where there are many experts in attendance - and the knowledge is hard won.