Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Violet on January 29, 2008, 07:27:33 PM
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Here’s something that I have a hard time with. My Nmom sees herself as very good and very religious, she has never admitted to any responsibility for anything, and sees herself as the perfect mother of the perfect family, never mind my siblings have all had multiple substance abuse issues and there are at least 3 different suicide attempts in our family, lots of other horror stories, etc. Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply. She believes people are hurting, poor, or sick because a) they don’t have enough faith to claim their “blessing” (money, health, perfect life, whatever) and/or b) there is secret “sin” in their lives. She lives in a senior retirement home and stays away from people who are sick, scared or hurting. She boasts about this within a religious context, meaning she feels that this type of individual can somehow contaminate her and "destroy her faith" if she is around them. I do not understand the theological basis for her beliefs, never mind that Jesus Christ spent His time on earth in the dusty streets, helping the hurting, stinking, poor, heartbroken masses. She flaunts her health, wealth and other temporal blessings and boastfully takes credit for them, since she is on “Jesus’ ” A list.
People like me, the broken-hearted, maimed, financially struggling, goofball, nobodies are getting what they deserve; her “God” sees them as powerless and not worth blessing.
This makes my head and my heart hurt! My older sister is just like her. They don’t know what pain or struggles are…. :cry:
Violet
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Hi Violet,
Basically, she follows, as you illustrate, a different "Jesus"
not, Jesus Christ as in the Bible.
I have met with Christians, in a spiritually abusive church, that I was a member of, years ago now, who followed this version of "Jesus"
Hence, anyone who was sick, lost a job, or any mishap in life, was labelled, as having "sin in their life!"
Narcissists go to church too!!!
Spiritual Abuse thread thay may be of interest to you: http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6371.0 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6371.0)
My sincere empathy and understanding (also have an NPD mother).
Love, Leah
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That is really pitiful, Violet. I would rather have the N, who is "out there" strutting their N stuff than your type of N. That is probably the worse type of N( and the hardest to detect). It must be really hard, Violet.I am so sorry. Ami
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Dear Violet ,
I hear your frustration. Underneath the self-rightness religious indignation of your mom and sister is fear, insecurity, and envy.
Sure, they are not thieves in the normal sense but they are stealer's of integrity, charity and attention. They uses their faith as a defense to protect themselves.
The worst is a person who pretends to be perfect and without flaws....anyone who acts too holy or too saintly is a person to be careful of. I have learned this lesson in my own Catholic community. I am amazed at the people who act saintly and perfect yet treat others with disdain because deep down they are insecure and envious.
If you ever get a chance, study envy, if you have already done so, restudy it. Envy is at the root of a lot of behaviors, especially those in the church -- however, if I was to post this without admitting my own sense of envy at times or jealously I would be a hypocrite. For the most part I find joy in others gifts and successes, but if my own sense of self esteem is down, or as in the past, I have tied my sense of worth to achievements, then I am apt to be prone to feelings of envy at others successes.
The thing about looking down on others who are down, your mom and sister do that because it gives them a sense of feeling superior to compensate for deep down feeling inferior.
Thanks for your post.
Gab
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Hi again, Violet,
I agree 100 percent with Gabben's post re: envy.
The false "prosperity gospel" teaching which is so popular today has caused alot of pain to many folks, but my religious mother doesn't buy into that... yet she sounds exactly like your mom when it comes to her view of the downtrodden.
Basically, she seems to think that if they would only straighten up and be as good as she is, they'd be fine.
For those with whom she can't find any particular fault (especially women... and they are very few), she blames their troubles on their spouse.
Carolyn
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hi again, Violet
Envy sits deep at the root, regarding the "Postive Confession" ~ "Prosperity Gospel"
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734)
again, from personal experience in the spiritually abusive chuch, some years ago, now.
Hope this is of a help to you.
Love, Leah
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"Postive Confession"
Leah,
Can you please explain what you mean by "positive confession" and envy at root of it? I have never heard this before...interesting.
Lise
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Dear Lise,
I have to go to bed shortly, should have gone ages ago, but, to answer your question, as above,
Positive Confession is NOT Catholic, so don't panic!!!
It's part of the Prosperity Gospel.
Which was in the church that I was a member of, some years ago now, and, managed to escape from.
My story is in the "Spiritual Abuse" thread.
There is a book by a guy "From the other side of the River" which is an excellent true life account etc etc.
Hope that helps clarify for you.
Honestly, the Spiritual Abuse was the WORST, believe me, for me, and the 400 other people in the church, who were broken people after, they too had escaped.
God Bless You.
"Goodnight"
Love, Leah
PS >>> Lise, you mentioned ENVY so that's why i posted, as did Carolyn too,
i.e. ......... Underneath the self-rightness religious indignation of your mom and sister is fear, insecurity, and envy.
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No worries, Leah, I was not even thinking that "positive confession" WAS Catholic --- I have just never heard the term and since it is written by you here with vagueness, I just wanted clarity as to what exactly it means. BTW - you still evaded my question, I know that you are tired, sleep well and when you get a chance please fill me in on what positive confession means, thanks.
Lise
Hi Violet - sorry to embark on a conversation with Leah here on your thread - just want clarity on this issue.
Peace~
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Thanks Lise, I am tired and really must go, as I have worked too long and hard today, to meet a deadline, and my eyes are watery.
But, I need to work to eat!
Catch up tomorrow, I never ever evade anyone or their questions, rather, I labour away trying to explain, clarify, etc.
and try my best to be helpful.
Leah aka Miss Understood :)
PS >>> Rather than wait for me tomorrow,,,,,,, why not simply google in "positive confession" "prosperity gospel"
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Good idea, thank you Leah!
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What an amazing insight, Violet:
Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply.
Thank you for this...it has really flashed in my mind, illuminating a lot of old painful confusing things.
Glad you're here...I'm sorry for what you're going through.
Hops
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Yes, indeed, envy. It is so corrosive and eats into people.
Last night a friend called me (someone I have known quite a long time in fact). She could hardly get over the pleasantries quick enough to tell me their next door neighbours had purchased a holiday apartment in another country (overseas). (Good for them, I think! and besides the couple in question can afford it, because they both work hard). So she says: "I think they are crazy!" So I say: "Oh well there are some lovely places over there where they have bought the apartment etc. etc. " She says: "It is too far away for them, etc. etc." too long a flight and so on and so forth". I think to myself, but do not say:" Well, it is their own business even if they buy an apartment sitting on the north pole".
Point is, she is almost ill with envy at their being able to buy that place, and I began to just feel tired of the conversation. I cannot understand that kind of thinking.
I love the idea that the couple in question are now going to do something different in their lives, their kids are grown up and flown the nest, so why not?
People are strange......
Best to all
Hermes
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Exactly Hermes,
Have listened to similiar, with my inner thoughts, of just let them be.
Envy and Falseness, are my "bother me"
Love,
Leah
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You are so right, Leah. No point in talking.
I shall however, make a point of congratulating the couple in question on their new endeavour if I get a chance to see them sometime.
People who pull you down, psychically speaking, are to be avoided. I swear I groan when I see that this particular friend is telephoning me me LOL.
All the best
Hermes
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My mom has actually grown in this area but growing up she used the dear of hell to make my bro and I conform. I believe we were victims of spiritual abuse but did not know it until much later. Thankfully I have developed a more realistic view of Christianity but my bro ran as far as he could the other way. It is a shame because he will call me and we will discuss world events in light of the way we were raised but he thinks if he mentions it to friends they will think he is out of his mind.
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Here’s something that I have a hard time with.
Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply.
She believes people are hurting, poor, or sick because a) they don’t have enough faith to claim their “blessing” (money, health, perfect life, whatever) and/or b) there is secret “sin” in their lives. She lives in a senior retirement home and stays away from people who are sick, scared or hurting. She boasts about this within a religious context, meaning she feels that this type of individual can somehow contaminate her and "destroy her faith" if she is around them. I do not understand the theological basis for her beliefs, never mind that Jesus Christ spent His time on earth in the dusty streets, helping the hurting, stinking, poor, heartbroken masses. She flaunts her health, wealth and other temporal blessings and boastfully takes credit for them, since she is on “Jesus’ ” A list.
People like me, the broken-hearted, maimed, financially struggling, goofball, nobodies are getting what they deserve; her “God” sees them as powerless and not worth blessing.
This makes my head and my heart hurt! My older sister is just like her. They don’t know what pain or struggles are…. :cry:
Violet
Dear Violet,
Your posting had a huge impact upon my heart last night. In my quiet time, my inner thoughts, regarding my personal life experience and observance. Impacted with such a realization, of what has always bothered me, a great deal, and confusingly so, at times.
Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply. That's it!
And, in a nutshell, why I did not fit into that church (as per my story on Spiritual Abuse thread) -- likewise, multitudes of other people could not fit in either. No chance of being accepted because, we all of us, were not looking for Nsupply (had already ticked off many F Flags, last year) and would question their worldview etc., which was in contrast to the exegesis in the bible.
The church veered towards wanting only 'important' people, of obvious material status, and cast down, those who were struggling, in life, or with life. The N persons, had no time at all for the members who needed comfort, support, or solace. Many times, after my escape, I had been brow beaten for expressing the truth, that they were cruel and manipulative and contolling, in their thoughts delivered, and from their actions.
They did that also, The N persons -- flaunted their health, wealth and other temporal blessings and boastfully took the credit for them, since their were on the “Jesus’ ” A list. With loud proclamation of sowing seeds of money, with beget more money, a bigger house, a new car. All the money gave them the blessings, and left the giving people even poorer. Some went into debt, to sow their seeds, to get out of debt!!!
Fact is, their version of “Jesus” was merely their main source of Nsupply.
Quite stunned last night, to realize, the harsh reality, the real truth.
Many many thanks.
Love, Leah
The one and only, Jesus Christ, went out of his way to spend His time on earth in the dusty streets, helping the hurting, stinking, poor, and the heartbroken masses. Hence, The Beatitudes!!
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That is really pitiful, Violet. I would rather have the N, who is "out there" strutting their N stuff than your type of N. That is probably the worse type of N( and the hardest to detect). It must be really hard, Violet.I am so sorry. Ami
Thank you, Ami, for your kind reply. Actually, I have worked through a lot of the bitterness and rage toward my mom. She is pretty "manageable" but still quite exhausting. I may have mentioned I visited her this past summer for the first time in 10 years (BTW, discovering this group of wonderful people has really helped assuage some of my conflicting and guilty feelings about my relationship with her, like I just knew it is NOT natural to NOT see your mother in ten years....). Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to respond.... Violet
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-- however, if I was to post this without admitting my own sense of envy at times or jealously I would be a hypocrite. For the most part I find joy in others gifts and successes, but if my own sense of self esteem is down, or as in the past, I have tied my sense of worth to achievements, then I am apt to be prone to feelings of envy at others successes.
Gab
Yes, Gab, I agree with you. I know how painful it was for me to face the facts of my own feelings about my sister's wealth since my DH and I have always struggled financially. I remember raging at God once, years ago, "You mean she gets all this here on Earth, AND HEAVEN?!" I do not feel like that anymore, thank God, and mostly try to be (and usually am) thankful for what I have, except I really, really wish I had a) her housekeeper and b) their swimming pool because I am a really good swimmer and love it and she, my sis, does not even know how to swim!! Oh, the irony.... V :?
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Hi again, Violet,
I agree 100 percent with Gabben's post re: envy.
The false "prosperity gospel" teaching which is so popular today has caused alot of pain to many folks, but my religious mother doesn't buy into that... yet she sounds exactly like your mom when it comes to her view of the downtrodden.
Basically, she seems to think that if they would only straighten up and be as good as she is, they'd be fine.
For those with whom she can't find any particular fault (especially women... and they are very few), she blames their troubles on their spouse.
Carolyn
Hi, Carolyn,
Thanks for the post. I appreciate your comments and am thinking about what you wrote about your mother. Why must there always be BLAME? Why can't it just be about humans being what they are, frail humans? My Nmom always tries to affix blame, I do not get it....
Is it so she won't have any responsibility to try to help them alleviate some of their pain or offer any practical help? Do you think this might fit your Nmom? PS. I have also been wondering if I am traveling down the Blame Game road by revisiting so much of this, this worries me because I had to fight against this for years after .... I am trying NOT to blame, just trying to put it all in perspective.
Violet
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hi again, Violet
Envy sits deep at the root, regarding the "Postive Confession" ~ "Prosperity Gospel"
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734)
again, from personal experience in the spiritually abusive chuch, some years ago, now.
Hope this is of a help to you.
Love, Leah
Hi, Leah,
Thank you for taking time to respond. I will look into the link you provided. I believe the label "Prosperity Gospel" is what they ascribe to. I am sickened and shocked by it, but it seems quite pervasive in what passes for "christianity" in the USA, at least what I have personally witnessed. I do not attend church but I do believe the Bible. I do not understand how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of entitlement.
Thank you for the link, Leah, I will look at it a little later. Violet
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What an amazing insight, Violet:
Her “Jesus” is one of her main sources of Nsupply.
Thank you for this...it has really flashed in my mind, illuminating a lot of old painful confusing things.
Glad you're here...I'm sorry for what you're going through.
Hops
Hello, Hops, thank you for commenting. Thank you for welcoming me. I appreciate your words of sympathy. V
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hi again, Violet
Envy sits deep at the root, regarding the "Postive Confession" ~ "Prosperity Gospel"
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=6197.msg111734#msg111734)
again, from personal experience in the spiritually abusive chuch, some years ago, now.
Hope this is of a help to you.
Love, Leah
Hi, Leah,
Thank you for taking time to respond. I will look into the link you provided. I believe the label "Prosperity Gospel" is what they ascribe to. I am sickened and shocked by it, but it seems quite pervasive in what passes for "christianity" in the USA, at least what I have personally witnessed. I do not attend church but I do believe the Bible. I do not understand how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of entitlement.
Thank you for the link, Leah, I will look at it a little later. Violet
Oh, thank you, Violet
Rare for me to receive such affirmation and validation, breathe of fresh air, and life, for me. I am grateful.
I resonate, once again, with everything you have just shared. I too believe the Bible, and enjy my study time, and try my best to be, as a born anew Christian, each day; to follow the true actual teachings. Never again, with I surrender myself to any church organization or whatever. There is only one whom I surrender to.
Likewise, it baffles me, how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of grandiose entitlement.
Humility, of heart and action, is clearly, the thread woven throughout.
Many many thanks.
Love, Leah
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Thankfully I have developed a more realistic view of Christianity but my bro ran as far as he could the other way.
Thank you for writing, Overcomer. My personal view about Christ is He came to do just what He said He did, not to give everyone on the A list a Mercedes Benz. I believe the first words out of His mouth when assuming His public ministry were something like, "I came to heal the broken hearted, to set the captives free, to restore sight to the blind, to bring good news to the poor, to liberate those that are bruised...." Sorry, a paraphrase and I hope I am not coming across as preachy. In other words, IF Christ was truly the Son of God, He came on a mission, and the mission if I am reading it correctly is one of rescue, help, wholeness, restoring, and everything that is GOOD, like setting us free from the inner things that are destroying us, such as envy, rage, bitterness, anger, hopelessness, hatred, in short everything that is BAD. Forgive me if I step on anyone's toes, these are just my inner thoughts, I am not a church goer but I like reading the Bible very much. Even though I do not understand most of what is in the Bible, I DO believe these words are true, what do you think? Is this a realistic view? Violet
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Yes, indeed, envy. It is so corrosive and eats into people.
..
Best to all
Hermes
Hello, Hermes, I agree with you, envy is corrosive, never thought about it like that, really. Also bitterness which goes hand in hand with envy, IMHO. Thank you for commenting. Best thoughts.... Violet
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Thankfully I have developed a more realistic view of Christianity but my bro ran as far as he could the other way.
Thank you for writing, Overcomer. My personal view about Christ is He came to do just what He said He did, not to give everyone on the A list a Mercedes Benz. I believe the first words out of His mouth when assuming His public ministry were something like, "I came to heal the broken hearted, to set the captives free, to restore sight to the blind, to bring good news to the poor, to liberate those that are bruised...." Sorry, a paraphrase and I hope I am not coming across as preachy. In other words, IF Christ was truly the Son of God, He came on a mission, and the mission if I am reading it correctly is one of rescue, help, wholeness, restoring, and everything that is GOOD, like setting us free from the inner things that are destroying us, such as envy, rage, bitterness, anger, hopelessness, hatred, in short everything that is BAD. Forgive me if I step on anyone's toes, these are just my inner thoughts, I am not a church goer but I like reading the Bible very much. Even though I do not understand most of what is in the Bible, I DO believe these words are true, what do you think? Is this a realistic view? Violet
Chiming in ........ As a Bible reader and believer .......... Absolutely!
Love, Leah
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Indeed yes, Violet. Lots of people are fond of second-guessing Jesus LOL. He seems to me to have been a very sensible, and very charitable, person.
I don't go to church either and well, a long time ago, I had to learn all the gospels off by heart, whether I wanted to or not . L.
A new local priest here has a large 4X4, a fancy rig. Someone asked me had he been to call. I smiled, and said I doubt it, seeing as I had said to someone, who no doubt brought the news back to him: "well, to the best of my knowledge Jesus entered Jerusalem on the back of a donkey (and a borrowed donkey at that). He did not enter on what was probably the 4X4 equivalent back in those days, a fancy Roman chariot drawn by 4 magnificent matching horses".
I sometimes think: "what would Jesus say if he came back here now". Shake his head I should think, and leave as quickly as he could! LOL
Hermes
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Likewise, it baffles me, how any sane, thinking person can read the 4 gospels and actually believe Christ taught a religion of grandiose entitlement.
Humility, of heart and action, is clearly, the thread woven throughout.
Many many thanks.
Love, Leah
Hello, Leah,
Yes, it baffles me as well, and makes we wonder if Narcissism is more widespread than I realize? How could these beliefs become so mainstream? Greed and envy are at the heart of it. I remember once many years ago, after trying to explain to my sister why I could not believe the way she did, that I did not want anything to do with a religion that was actively encouraging me to be more greedy, since I was always fighting against my own inner desires for material gain, but she did not understand what I was trying to say. V
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Well, Violet, we live in a consumer society, where there is huge pressure to consume more, advertising, all the rest of it. There are many selfish people (not necessarily narcissistic), out there, people who are easily influenced by every passing fad, so are so insecure that they feel owning material things will make them happier/better.
All the best
Hermes
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A new local priest here has a large 4X4, a fancy rig. Someone asked me had he been to call. I smiled, and said I doubt it, seeing as I had said to someone, who no doubt brought the news back to him: "well, to the best of my knowledge Jesus entered Jerusalem on the back of a donkey (and a borrowed donkey at that). He did not enter on what was probably the 4X4 equivalent back in those days, a fancy Roman chariot drawn by 4 magnificent matching horses".
I sometimes think: "what would Jesus say if he came back here now". Shake his head I should think, and leave as quickly as he could! LOL
Hermes
Hermes, I was going to reply with: "LOL," but that simply does NOT do justice to your comments, so here goes:
Ha, Ha, ha, hee, hee, heh, a ha ha ha!! Tears squeezing out, and hee, hee, hah HAH, HA....hee, hee, hee....... Thanks for the belly laugh, I think I really needed that, wow, humor really DOES help a lot doesn't it? I do hope your comments made it back to that priest with the fancy rig.... This made my day! Violet
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You're telling me, Viuolet! LOL. Without humour you could go mad, truly.
I have a neighbour, who has had her share of troubles. Her response to people who say something not very nice to her is: "I love you too"!!! I think it is hilarious, and she made me laugh so much.
All the best
Hermes
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Ha, Ha, ha, :lol: :lol:hee, hee, heh, :lol: :lol:a ha ha ha!! Tears puring out :lol: :lol: :lol: hee, hee, hah HAH, HA....hee, hee, hee....... I love the comments about that priest with the fancy rig.... and the true fact, i.e. the donkey, which is something that I have highlighted in conversation, to deafo ears!
Cheered up my day! :lol:
Love, Leah
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Well, worse still was that he got up in the pulpit and said it had come to his ears that he had heard of critical comments about the vehicle. (shows how little sense he has!). He proceeded to tell those present that his parishioners in his previous parish had got together a collection and, wait for it, bought him the vehicle as a "going away" present! He then went on to say that he doubted if his present parishioners would eer be buying him anything! Now THAT took my breath away.
Hermes
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Well, worse still was that he got up in the pulpit and said it had come to his ears that he had heard of critical comments about the vehicle. (shows how little sense he has!). He proceeded to tell those present that his parishioners in his previous parish had got together a collection and, wait for it, bought him the vehicle as a "going away" present! He then went on to say that he doubted if his present parishioners would eer be buying him anything! Now THAT took my breath away.
Hermes
That does not surprise me one bit. Oh, the grandoise "flair" that flows off their tongue. The church that I was enmeshed in (spiritual abuse) some years back now; the pastor would stand there in italian shoes and italian suit, and tell everyone the price he paid "sow more, and look, you can get more, like me" Yeah right. Only a year previously, he had always been a plain simply modestly suited man, during his ministry years, until he jumped on the "mega star" bandwagon.
Suddenly, the pastor had a 4 x 4 for his wife, and he had a top luxury car, all expenses paid, for both. Anyone who came to HIS church in a banger of a car, or anthing older than four years or so, would be greeted by a car park steward who would guide them to park their 'aged' car round the back, out of sight.
Leah
> Oh well, even in Jesus' day; there were the Pharisees, Sadducee's, and the Couldn't sees !
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Yeh. Hermes, the scourge of flamboyant clergy.....
I wish. LOL
Hermes
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In the book of Hebrews, God admonishes us to keep a lifestyle that is pleasing to him in every way. The manner in which we live will affect the way we give. God's way is holy and all he does is holy.
God also admonishes us to be free from the love of money, which leads to all kinds of other stuff. The love of money, and the love for the grand material things in the world, will only make us stray from the truth and from the right path. The results will only be a faith that is shipwrecked.
Daily inspiration reading for today, included the above, and what has impacted me is ..... 'faith being shipwrecked.'
That's the best description, for how I felt, in the aftermath, and also, the multitude of others, who were alongside, in the shipwreck.
Love, Leah
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Actually, I have worked through a lot of the bitterness and rage toward my mom.
Hi Violet,
Me too. My heart has been full of rage and hurt. this past year especially. My spiritual director encouraged me to express and say "I hate her, my mom!"
It felt so good to get it out.
As a child I was not allowed to express my hatred and work through it to realize that the emotion was useless and not to benefit anyone. But I was still a child and my anger and rage at my moms abuse was nothing to be squished.
My heart still hearts and carries so much anger. The wound of having a N mom or a toxic one goes back to our earliest days in this world and what it is like to squish our voices, expressions and true self all in order to simply survive.
The pain of the hurt underneath my rage and bitterness is the core wound. As walk through life I sometimes feel the piercing pain in my chest and my immediate response is to seek relief. This takes me to to my anger, I think anger is an easier emotion to feel rather than the hopeless sense of powerlessness that accompanies the pain that I must have felt as a small child when I was being wounded. Mental illness is a refusal to suffer.
Lise
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I've just started as a member of a Simplicity Covenant Group at my church...we're following a workbook put out by the Voluntary Simplicity movement. I like it. It lets me make my "green" values line up with my daily decisions, and gives spiritual support. Many in the group have the funds to be "fancy green" (renovating their homes into eco-homes) but I'm one who is simple by necessity. It's nice to talk about all of those feelings in a space of trust.
Speaking of Jesus, I like the bumper sticker: Who Would Jesus Bomb?
xo
Hops
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I love that sticker, Hops. LOL.
Hermes
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Speaking of Jesus, in all honesty, as Hermes said earlier on in reply #26, he was a very sensible, and very charitable, man.
Man of Peace ...... he came in peace, and walked with peace, and with goodwill, for all humankind .... the beatitudes .....
http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=5870.msg110090#msg110090 (http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php?topic=5870.msg110090#msg110090)
Behind the wars, and rumors of wars, are humankind, who wage war for control, of assets (oil, diamonds, minerals, etc) and of course, for the control and domination of human lives.
At no time, did Jesus ever teach this, in honesty, quite the opposite.
So, I prefer to look behind the actions of humankind, for the reason, the motivation.
Thankful, for my life, and that I am not about to be beheaded for my faith, as was a dear acquaintance, 10 years ago now, she was working, voluntarily, in the Christian mission field, providing food, medicine, and support, and one day, they came, and dragged her outside, in front of children, and beheaded her. Why? read Sura 2 : 98 - her crime, she was an infidel who followed Christ.
God is a God of all Comfort and Peace. Humankind makes their own choices.
My chosen Worldview prefers to look at humankind actions, with a worldwide vision.
Last week, I watched a documentary whereby the Amazon Rainforest is being decimated at an alarming rate, which is endangering the animals as they flee to find somewhere to live, and exist.
Why are hundreds of miles of trees being felled each day? To plant Palm Oil Trees, which won't support the animals who live in the Amazon Rainforest.
Palm Oil ........... to make Green ECO Bio-Fuel for us! Humankinds needs ..... Green ECO Bio-fuel for our Cars, Transport etc.
Palm Oil is already in the food chain, and detergents, at an alarming big business growth level.
> Orang-utan
> Sumatran tiger
Struggling for survival.
Tis a crazy world, no mistake. Who makes the choices and decisions, we do, humankind. No-one forces us. God doesn't force us.
Many many dreadful things have been done down the ages, and are being done today, in God's name, but the truth is, what is being done is in humankinds own name.
Humankind needs to take personal responsibility and accountibility for their own actions and decisions, blame shifting and denial, is deadly.
Love, Leah