Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on February 04, 2008, 07:43:36 PM
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I "know", intellectually , that my M is an N(IMO) However, my "heart" doesn't understand why she can only see "ugly" in me.
I try so hard to be "good" and all she sees is "bad".
All she sees is the one "pimple" on my face. I am still trying to get her to have that deep ,loving acceptance of me and what I meet with is sharp disapproval.
She WAS good to me during the funeral etc. I guess the magnitude of the tragedy overshadowed all my "unacceptable" parts,but NOW my "unacceptable" parts are showing----bleh.
I have ,yet ,to ask some of my "functional " friends,if they got unconditional love from their families. I would be really interested if I am the "rule" or the exception.
I am back to "never doing it right", not doing it well enough, doing it TOO much, or not doing it enough. IT is everything there is. It is major scewing up,in every area---bleh. .
I just wonder if this is what everyone(with N parents and with non N parents ) goes through.
Any thoughts would be appreciated. If I have already asked this in another form(lol), I am sorry,but I am facing it again,today.
Ami
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Hi Ami,
My mom is the same way. I'll never be enough in her eyes, I gave up a long time ago. She never even asks me what is going on in my life because she knows that I will never tell her either my joys or my successes -- I do not set myself up for disapointment with her. It is a matter of beating my head against a wall or trying to jam a square peg into a round hole.
I have long ago mourned the loss of my moms approval and acknowledgement and I am still mourning it on some levels. There was so much genuine love that I needed and never got.
If I was to experience a loss such as yours, my mom would find a way to make it about her. My pain would be overlooked and she would be the one with the most suffering...she would demand all the sympathy go to her.
Dear Ami - you are mourning so much these days...my heart feels so much love for you and compassion. I hope you get to take a bubble bath and listen to music that comforts you, take long naps, go for walks with Mimi or just hold her on your lap. I hope that you get many hugs these days.
Love,
Lise
http://www.nevergoodenough.com/
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Dear Ami,
I sometimes wonder if its not so much that they don't `see' our value, but that they would never `express' that value in the form of praise ?.
My mother is her nastiest with one of my sisters; she is self-doubting and so wonderfully gentle, like you, and also the most beautiful of her 4 girl-children. She has four boys (no girls), and is well off.
I really think my mother envies her, and this is why she is picked on so much. My mother values beauty, boy children, and wealth very highly and my sister has all of that. By my mother's standards, she would be regarded as great success! But my mother can't stand her. She picks at the smallest things, and is always hypercriical regarding her parenting and `style' of being.
My mother `gets on' better with her daughters who are less fortunate. She will even praise us and be kind at times! The one she `loves' is extremely obese. I cme a distant second, i think, because I struggle and I am far from pretty.
I guess what I'm saying, is she probaly sees your value, Ami. She probably sees it quite well.
X Bella
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Hi Bella-
You make a very good point. It has not occurred to me that my mom or that other N mom's for that matter, could actually see our goodness and or talents and successes until I read your post. I usually think that they have a skewed view of reality, it is not us they see but our accomplishments, like you said, and they will feel threatend because they are insecure at heart.
Somewhere in all of my reading up on N mom's I read that N mom's tend to project their own self-hatred or dislike about themselves onto their children.
Lise
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Dear Lise and Bella,
What great comments. I feel uplifted,already.
Lise, I guess that you accepted what "is" and I still want my M to value me, so I can value myself--bleh.
Bella, you are so sweet in your comments. You "reframed " the situation for me.
I will simply chose to look at it the way you said. It will be a positive way to view a "negative " situation. It can turn it around for good.
Love to You, Bella and Lise, Ami
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Thanks Gabben!
I am glad to know other ladies who know what it feels to grow up wit an N-mother; it makes me feel bad, in a way, to know you've gone through it but also I happy to have this `bond' with you to, if that makes sense.
MY mother is a somatic narcissist, and from what you've said you mother (like AMi's) is more like a cerebral narcissist? I think cerebreal N's tear down your every thought and eat away at your sense of confidence in your reality; it so very nasty. My mother was only really interested in sexual attention, and abandoned the family over and over while i was growing up. And she `taught' me to hate my body and to `disregard' my intellect. But it was not the same as tearing it down.
I am trying to learn how to be more sensitive to your wounds, Gabs. I am not sure how to be, But I want to you know that I really do care an ddo not want to hurt you.
love and hugs,
bella
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I am trying to learn how to be more sensitive to your wounds, Gabs. I am not sure how to be, But I want to you know that I really do care an ddo not want to hurt you.
Likewise (((Bellla))) thank you.
Peace,
Lise
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Boy, Bella. A somatic N sounds worse than a cerebral N. We should have a parlor game--which N is worse(Lol)?
I am so thankful that my M left my intellect intact.
The ONE area my M did not mess with was that. Being able to immerse myself in books and learning new things has gotten me through a lot of pain.
I can see why you have the "body "issues, Bella.How are you doing on your exercise program?
I think that you and Lise are very respectful of each other and set a "good standard" for working out differences on the board.
Love Ami
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Dear Ami,
I like to exercise, and do a lot of walking each day. But its not enough to get me especially fit, so I'm using the exercise bike too. Its really working well!
Ami, I've tried really hard to assign my body image to `body dysmorphia' or something, but I think my opinion is accurate- I'm just not very good looking right now. I'll probably get uglier with age and gravity, so my attitude is I'd better learn to cope.
The trouble I have is with feeling too much shame and anxiety about my looks. Heck, its just my looks!. Being good looking isn't everything, not to me. Those are my mother's values, and yet I've `internalized' them as feelings of shame and fear.
Annoying huh?
X Bella
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Dear Bella,
I think that you need to try to find the "voice" of the shame and fear and hear what they are "saying " to you. At the end ,you will probably realize it is "lies".
I realized that I punished myself, my whole life, b/c I could not make my M "normal". (That would have taken Superman ----lol)
Scott thought he was worthless b/c he could not get my H to behave better and hence, make the family function well.
The counselor told me that,today.
Bella, I am quite sure that your deep feelings about yourself are "some" version of "craziness", as mine and Scott's were. Most of the things that destroy us are just "crazy " ideas, usually about "control"(that we could not make a situation "right")
Compost what doesn't fit.
Your b/f thinks you are beautiful, Bella. You have mentioned that on other threads. That is one of the the most important things, Bella--- a loving man ,who thinks you are beautiful. Love Ami
(((((((Bella))))))))
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Dear Ami,
Yes it really helps. His Nickname for me is `beautiful'; he's so sweet to me. I don't he means my looks though; I think he means `I'm' beautiful, not just one part or the other. Its how I see his beauty too- as the sum of parts. Looks are just one part (that change and meander...)
I realized that I punished myself, my whole life, b/c I could not make my M "normal". (That would have taken Superman ----lol)
Scott thought he was worthless b/c he could not get my H to behave better and hence, make the family function well.
The counselor told me that,today.
Bella, I am quite sure that your deep feelings about yourself are "some" version of "craziness", as mine and Scott's were. Most of the things that destroy us are just "crazy " ideas, usually about "control"(that we could not make a situation "right")
I think you are probably right, AMi. I'm so sorry to hear about Scott. He must shouldered such a sense of responsibility for things around him.
X Bella
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Hello Ami:
No, parents who are kind, loving, and more importantly, mentally stable (which an NPD person is not), do not behave in the manner you describe.
Ordinary parents can, and do, get annoyed at times, which is quite normal, as they are only human. But they do not reject, humiliate, become emotionally absent, play mind games, or any of that kind of stuff.
Then again NPdisordered are unable to behave in any other way, it is a type of "coping mechanism", to give it a name. That is how THEY deal with life. It is hard to accept that, particularly in a parent (I would imagine. Because I had good, kind parents).
All the best Ami, and I hope you are feeling a little better each day
Hermes
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Dear Bella,
I see what happened with Scott as the same as our distortions about ourselves, feeling worthless and valueless. That is why I have a"respect" for the lies, b/c they can destroy you.They are powerful.
I think that the lies have stolen much of our lives, don't you, Bella?
I have a renewed vigor to root them out. Ann is a "master" at this . Her expertise is exceptional.
When we shed light on the lies, they wither and die. Talking about them sheds light on them,too, and we can get free. Love Ami
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Dear Hermes,
Please tell me about your parents,if you could. I would love to hear how "functional" parents act.This is a serious question, even though it sounds "funny" . Thank you for your kind and supportive posts to me.The constant encouragement really helps, Hermes!
Ami
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Ami,
Please don't wait for your mother to value you first, in order to value yourself.
Scott's best legacy might be an appeal to you: Mom, learn self-love and self-respect.
He would want that more than anything. He would want you to be whole and self-respecting.
He would want you to learn to forgive yourself for everything. Everything.
Your mother gave you life. You get to keep it whether she approves of you or not.
love,
Hops
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WOWSER, Hops!!!!! Love, Ami
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Well, Ami, I suppose functional parents are "good enough" parents. It is not easy to describe. Parents, like all humans, have their faults and failings. Everyone can have a bad day, for one reason or another. The difference is that with N parents, or otherwise abusive, non-nurturing parents, that their "condition" is all-pervasive, ingrained, and sad to say, permanent.
A good parent resonates with the child, gives encouragement, is just and fair (a parent can be strictish, but just at the same time). A good parent has to try to be consistent, (dysfunctional parents will yell at the child, strike out, then the next day maybe smother the child with something that passes as "love", or gives some object as a kind of "peace offering", or whatever). A good parent does not do that. Also, good parents are able somehow to keep a light hand on the reins, giving just enough to the child to keep going, to progress. A good parent, even if she or he lets a yell at you once in a while, you know it is not in bad faith, and that all is essentially well.
An example: my brother, not long after he learnt to drive, turned Dad's car over because somehow he just didn't have the experience to handle a sudden hump in the road. The car was really a write off, but my brother was unhurt. Dad did not say a word, except to remark: "thank goodness he is all right. that is the main thing." Dad (who probably did get a fright himself at the news), might have wanted to go mad, to jump up and down, rage, demean, but being a normal sane person he did not do that.
There were two things Mum and Dad were very very strict about: one was lying, the other was stealing. We were warned never ever to touch a coin even, that might be left on a shelf, or in the kitchen or wherever. However, if we asked for that coin, we would no doubt be given it, or perhaps we would do some little errand to "earn" it. If you owned up to some misdemeanour, you might get a bit of a telling off, but we were not punished. But lying, in any shape or form was out of the question. So, we never lied.
I always loved reading, and Dad encouraged this, and there were never any censorship placed on what I read.
He was a well-travelled and well-read man himself, and he wanted us to look outwards as much as possible.
I often think of the huge amount of patience my Dad showed. I know, and found out in later life about all the other parents he encouraged to do the best for their kids. He said kids needed a good start in life. For him that was paramount.
All the best
Hermes
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Dear Hermes,
My M is like an assailant ,hiding in a bush, ready to get me(lol). I can't do right---- no how, no way.
I just have to accept that she loves me,in her way. Ami
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What Hops said, Ami:
"Ami,
Please don't wait for your mother to value you first, in order to value yourself.""
All the best
Hermes
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I had an insight into my relationship with my mother today that really fits into your thread Ami so I am going to share it here.
I had an image that emerged in a complicated context that I will omit for breviities sake. I saw (for the millionth time) my struggle with oppressive (sabotaging) authority (mother and father). The image is a little hard to describe but I was outside of a door of a large room filled with people about to sit down to participate in a program. The door was in the back of the room on the right. I wanted to go in and sit near the front on the left. I could barely face having to walk into that room. I began thinking of subversive ways to get around having to walk through the crowd and yet get to my goal. I didn't want to have to "walk the gauntlet" of hyper-critical, judgmental people.
Believe it or not - this is the mantal that I have taken on from being raised by my parents. I KNOW that my mother will pretend to be supportive and loving but that she will truly be hyper-critical and judgmental and destructive of me. The best way is to walk right through the door but my mother will sideswipe my purpose or hijact me into becoming her servant or .......... The only way to get to my preferred place is by some subversive, hidden, round about means. The problem is that there is a penalty for being subversive, hidden or round about. There is actually a HUGE price. By not being direct and determined I become outside the norm and NEVER an integrated part.
CONC - The point is this. The only positive way to get to my destination is to walk with my head up and acknowledge my mother but not stop - simply be pulled along by the crowd and keep going. Another way to say this is - I have been stuck in trying to get my mother to be mothering. With an N mother that is STUCK. I can be around her but I must see her as a sand trap on a golf course. I don't stay off the course because there are traps but I don't aim for traps either. I know I may get stuck in a trap and there is a penalty for that but the object is to negotiate my way around and through and over the traps and keep aiming for the hole. I have been playing golf trying to get rid of the sand traps. Everyone else on the course thinks I am crazy - the traps are part of the game and they are tired of hearing about me trying to get rid of the traps.
My mother isn't going to change and HELLO neither am I until I accept this!!!!!
This is the ultimate message I want to share with you Ami.
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Thank you GS. Love Ami
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THAT ,Izzy, is a brilliant point. It is ,in fact, a life changing POV. Thanks Izzy, Ami
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Dear Izzy,
When the student is ready, the teacher will appear. YOU were the teacher.(lol) I "got" it about my M not approving of anyone. Ami
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(((((((((((GS)))))))))))))
fasten your seat belt, I think you're going toward happiness.
love and so glad to read this,
Hops
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((((((( GS )))))))) you have found the Key!
(((((( Ami ))))))) what Hops said; "Please don't wait for your mother to value you first, in order to value yourself." is oh so true.
Love to (((( Everyone )))) Leah x
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My apologies Ami for this brief hijack.
Hops and Leah - I am definitely getting closer. These images that are coming to me are really helping. I understand so well how the whole enchalada is MY reaction to the stuff. I see so clearly that the key is to be "non-reactive" with the N. My mother is not , can not, will not change. Getting it right on my part will never produce the desired effects. My job is to pick my course and stay steady. I will get help from her but I am clear that what I need is her financial help to get my small business off the ground. She has promised that and thanks to my new found relationship with my oldest brother, He has promised to make that happen. His support alone has given me the strength to learn to ignore what she does and hold her to her promise. In the past I wanted her to keep her word and felt powerless to do anything if she didn't. No longer.
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Just briefly,
BRAVO ((((((( GS )))))))) "No Longer" is the Key!! Please know that I have been reading your Life Story updates, and,
have noticed the difference i.e. transformation.
(((((((( Ami ))))))) So love what you have shared on your other thread, about ownership, that's the key!
Love to all,
Leah x
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Dear GS,
Your points are relevant to getting whole, which is what this thread is about, anyway. Talk about what seems important to you. I want to hear,GS. Love Ami