Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: sjkravill on July 17, 2004, 07:35:23 AM
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I am hoping you will lend a supportive eye today.
Some of you know, I am away from my possibly Nh for the summer. I was feeling really great, until I saw an old friend yesterday. We were talking about life, and my story of mostly emotional abuse from h just spilled out. I started to tremble uncontrolably as we were talking. She believes I am in danger. I am not so sure about that.
But it made me realize for the first time how this has shaken me to the core. I have been so strong in order to hold my work together, and in order not to show a bullly that he scares me. Suddenly, far removed, months later, I am trembling as my speak. The trembling stopped when we changed the subject. I was fine until I drove home. On the way, it started again, as I was reflecting, along with a loss of appetite, sleep, you get the picture. I almost feel as though I have the flu or something.
I don't know how to cope with this. I don't know if I should get back to distracting myself, or if I should dwel on it or deal with it in some way. I am going back to him in 4 weeks. I was/am under the impression that things were improving. They might be, or this might be part of a cycle. Again, I feel completely lost in how to conceptualize this... And how to deal with this intense physical reaction.
Anyone got any suggestions?
peace, S
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S
It sounds like you have post tramadic syndrome. You are feeling safer which is allowing you to tell someone else about what has happened to you. At the same time, you are listening to yourself and your body is telling you that you have been through some terrible things. Since you have been able to be away from him all summer, why would you contemplate going back to him - ever? Give yourself permission to be free.
Hugs
Max
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Dear God Sjkravill. I don’t know if it’s all him, or him combined with staying with your parents, or what. But something is very, very wrong here. Please do not marry this man, or any man! – until you know what it is that is troubling you. Your mind is telling your body that something is very wrong. Can you stay away longer? Can you stay with your friend for a few days? She can see some major change in you and is worried about you. I’m worried about you, I have been since you said you couldn’t sleep properly when you are with him. That’s not good and not ‘normal’ and not acceptable. Please don’t distract yourself. It’s your life. Please make the right choices now while you’re young. Because it won’t be so easy to extract yourself when you’re older, when you might have children and when you just might feel even worse than you do now. I am concerned about you, reading your post. You’re important. Please look after your-self.
Can you see a local doctor or counsellor? This warrants a visit to either or both. You do not have to cope with it! Ask for help. You don’t have to deal with it, or cope, alone. And please come back and talk some more if you can and you want to! Hugs and love, P
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Hi Sjkravill,
I was going to say just what Max did, that it truly sounds like post traumatic stress disorder. That means that whatever you have come out of for your hiatus(I'm fairly new here & so do not know your history) has been traumatic to you, and not a good, or healthy situation.
If you are dealing with an N (as you say that you possibly are), it is a very, very rigid disorder, and I would sadly agree with you that what seems like improvement is likely just part of the cycle.
It took me 5 years to realize that with my xN, and honestly, I still at times, wonder if he has or could change! :oops: Though, there is no chance of my being involved romantically with him again, I wonder if someone else will have all of the benefit that I wanted. That being the healed, self-actualized him.
Then I snap to my senses, and realize the truth. But from time to time, I snap out again... Accepting the truth and letting go can be a process of going back & forth between the fantasy thoughts and reality thoughts. At first it can be more fantasy, and little by little over time it becomes more reality, with only small spurts of fantasy thinking.
Again, I don't know your situation but from other's messages it sounded like you have a choice whether to remain in the relationship or not (i.e. you are not stuck financially, with young kids etc.)
I think your body and inner self were giving you extremely strong and serious messages, that would be well worth listening to. They are a part of you that is literally shouting very clear, uninfluenced (by the heart/hopes) information concerning what would be best for you.
As Portia said, maybe you could see a local counselor. I think it would truly be best to do it while you have this physical distance between you & your partner, and I really, really hope you are able to see someone.
If you can't see anyone locally, I would sort of be afraid for you, that going into the feelings might be too much of an emotional overload on you to do on your own. Maybe you would be able to gage your feelings and stop when it seems like it is getting to be too much, but sometimes things become overwhelming before we know it.
I don't know how you feel about allowing yourself to go into your feelings, in terms of whether you feel you would be okay to do so where you are at right now. There were times/circumstances where I knew I needed to wait before allowing myself to go to a certain place within (I felt I might have freaked out in not a good enviroment to do so in), and other times where I felt safe letting it all out with myself, having comfort with the time & place I was at.
If you are not sure, maybe you could allow only more surface or more neutral thoughts in (i.e. plans for giving yourself more time, plans for finding a counselsor & things you might want to address), and mostly spend time with your friend/s doing things that make you feel great, and de-stressed.
You could plan to speak to a counselor when you get back to your home area to examine these feelings and the relationship in depth.
Take good care.....
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Hi Sjkravill,
I am very sorry to hear that you are hurting. :oops: I agree with all here that you are going through some awful stress about your relationship. Your friend may be on to something by saying you are in danger. It may not be physical danger, but a threat to your emotional health and spirit.
I have shaken like this only in severe circumstances: once when I witnessed a motorcycle accident (it was a very warm night, but still I shook to see a grown man fly like a rag doll). Another time was after the very physical stress of childbirth, a warm blanket was heaven. I think trembling is a very clear sign that something MAJOR is up with you.
If you had a broken leg, you would see a doctor. Your body is definitely trying to get your attention. I would definitely see a therapist (apologies, can't remember if you are in therapy, or NH, or both :? ) Let a professional take a clear-eyed look at your situation. It could very well be PTSD. Please take care. Lots of hugs to you.
Peace, Seeker
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Dear sjkravill, I’m bringing your post to the top because I want you to see the replies here from these wonderful people, Max, Blue Topaz and Seeker. I remember the times when I have trembled too. Like Seeker, I witnessed an awful accident and helped out. I shook that night, before sleep. I also shook terribly when something irretrievably damaged a relationship, and the event took me back to my childhood fears. I didn’t know this at the time.
I want you to know that you are ill. You have something troubling you inside and it needs attention, it is demanding attention. This thing is not you. It is something like an illness, a virus, that can be healed or cured or removed. But it’s not you – so you don’t have to be strong, or cope, or deal with it alone.
I lost so much weight when I lived with an N partner for 6 months. That was enough for me. Once I left, suddenly there was life again, there were choices and there was my own mind. You have an obligation to yourself first! Tell your N, your parents, whoever, your friend - that you are ill and need help.
I’ve been thinking about you since you posted. I don’t want you to go back in 4 weeks. Do you?
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Thank you all for your kind, supportive responses.
I have stoped trembling and am slowly regaining my appetite. Your suggestions about seeing someone about this really make sense. But, since I like eating and the absence of trembling, I would highly prefer to distract myself (and taking in other forms of healing) instead, and see what happens. I have been continuing to talk it through with friends. I am trying to listen to my conflicted self... I do have a therapist at home... So, right now I am planning on talking to her about this when I get back... Unless, I get brave enough to see someone here.
I feel conflicted about this relationship. I love my H dearly, and lately, there have been plenty of beautiful and wonderful times together. I love his family too. I really want to believe the mistreatment is in the past. I can't simply fit this into any kind of typical framework. Then, there is another part of me that doesn't actually miss him too much... that wishes for freedom. I have a difficult time reconciling the two sets of feelings, the two experinces. So many different feelings and issues complicate the situation for me.
Someone said to me (in a conversation) "You're house is on fire and you're making coffee." It appears so, doesn't it? Although, I am not entirely convinced of the fire for whatever reason.
Thank you for your wisdom and support. I shal try to stay connected!
Peace, S
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sjkravill,
Boy can I indentify with the conflicting/opposing feelings. Each side has seemed just as strong. I still have them from time to time, even though I am not dating xN anymore.
Now, from the point of view of being removed from the situation, I can see that I was not deciding between love and non love, or feeling this or that this person, but deciding between things inside of me.
It was about me, not him or our relationship.
I was deciding between following unhealthy childhood scripts for their security and familiarity, and for trying to get some inner needs met, versus the emotional fear of what moving into a more healthy place relationship-wise (with someone else) would entail. Or, versus what how being alone would feel (i.e. will I ever find someone again etc.)
I'm not sure if you will relate or not.
It is so confusing, I know. In the end, when I wanted a reality check for believing whether my xN had changed the damaging N trait behaviors, I'd ask myself "what did he actually do to heal"? It was usually nothing but his words about his "realizations."
I came to get the truth through my thick, fantasizing head. Unless he'd gone to counseling, support groups or done extensive reading and self work that he could tell me about in detail, nothing could change. Impossible that it could without ongoing, active work on his part.
I'm not certain as to whether your husband has done anything as such or not, or whether the changes are mostly professed in speech. If it is the latter, as much as he might wish to change, willpower alone won't allow these kinds of core changes. Not for anyone.
They require some sort of extensive intervention, where awareness, acknowledgement, and understanding of one's feelings and behaviors are evoked, and where one is emotionally at a place where they are able to work with them.
Anyway, it is great that you have someone at home that you can discuss what happened with your body, and discuss your conflicting feelings with.
Again, I know it's so hard. I felt so trapped- like it would be too unbearably painful to leave & not have him in my life, but staying was so painful on a regular basis, too.
Please know that thoughts are with you.
Take care.
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Hi Blue Topaz, (I like your name)
I can really identify with you posts. Thank you for sharing your story.
I love him dearly. I hate the idea of ending my marriage. Then there is another part of me that wants to be free and I am not sure I can be free within this marriage. I am slowly sorting my inner feelings through.
My H's changes are mostly 'realizations' which seem surprisingly insightful. They don't come easily (mostly after months without sex or something), and I am still waiting to see how long they really last. I am waiting to see if his behavior only changes form...
I used to be addiment (sp?) in my mind that he seek counseling or we seek marriage counseling, becuase it has been necessary for me to see and change myself. But, he is so averse to it. He came once but had nothing invested. I finally started thinking maybe I should accept that he can see things and make changes without counseling. (though it may take a heck of a lot longer) . As of late he has suggested we go to counseling together. I told him I would be happy to go if he made the appointment... That was several months ago. Some people are convinced counseling is necessary in this kind of case. I still tend to agree. I do appreciate your insight.
Peace, Sjkravill
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I am going back to him in 4 weeks.
Anyone got any suggestions?
Yeah! DON'T GO BACK!!!!
You made it this far, why would you even DREAM of going back to an abusive person? I don't know your story, but it seems to me that you HAVE your answer already. You just want to hear all of us say it. So, here, I'll add my two cents in with everyone else: the man treats you badly. He frightens you. He has you trembling at the very thought of him. You're probably suffering from PTSD along with anxiety attacks, insomnia, AND you're not eating.
HELLO!!! This person is NOT GOOD for you! Get away! Get out of there! Oh, you already did that. Great, then STAY away from him!
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Sjkravill,
Thanks for the compliment re. my board name. It is my birthstone plus my precious little kitty’s name (Topaz) :-)
I won’t write more on this afterwards because I see that you mentioned you are in the process of slowly sorting your feelings through.
I only wanted to leave you with some things that you may find helpful to watch for, during this process.
My H's changes are mostly 'realizations' which seem surprisingly insightful. They don't come easily (mostly after months without sex or something), and I am still waiting to see how long they really last. I am waiting to see if his behavior only changes form...
Usually, with N’s or those with N traits, the insight realizations are really “hooks”, and they come at times where the N feels their relationship stability is threatened, or where something they want/need emotionally is threatened. This would seem to fit with the timing when the “realizations” come with your husband, as well. Sadly, I’ve experienced that the self wisdom is really just a disguised way of stating the ever cliché “but I’ve changed”….
Quite awhile back, when I joined another board of those with N partners, I was so surprised to hear the exact same thing, over & over, as other people’s experiences. Their N’s & xN’s said all of the insightful things, too. It wasn’t long before a pattern was established, and one could see that N’s use their “new found enlightenment” as hooks. Many kinds of general abusers do the same, too.
My xN would say insightful things that would knock my socks off, and I remember feeling so awestruck that he had the capacity to think like that in him. It drew me to him even more wildly. I was completely wrong though. The words always ended up being nothing but hooks because something was going on in the relationship (I was not putting up with his unfair tactics at the time), and old behaviors would always return.
At some times, I think they are capable of genuine insight, and might want to change at that moment, and even believe that they can at that moment they are speaking about changing.
But, it has to fade, I think, as that kind of change can’t be done on words and willpower alone.
If you want to know whether he is serious, it might be helpful to keep it in your mind, that anyone serious about deep self-change needs a concrete plan, and needs to follow through on that plan in terms of starting it, and showing they are staying with it, within a reasonable/fairly quick amount of time. Other than that, the person is either probably not ready, or not wanting to make serious changes.
I just wanted to mention those things for your consideration at this important time of decision for you.
I wish so much that I had more positive/hopeful things to say, and believe me, I wished the same when I was trying to reconcile & figure out what I should do myself. Having to stop dating N nearly caused me a complete emotional/mental break-down (but good news is that one does get through it- I’m okay these days!). I did believe in the mere self professed realizations without any other proof of self work, many times, and I was always proven wrong, and devastated. Finally, I knew I needed to quit setting my own self up for the fall or I'd be a basket case soon. But before that, I also needed to see for myself, as many times as it took, that the behavior would never change (without serious intervention).
I wasn’t married to my xN (not even living together-just dating) so I know it is different, as well.
As I mentioned, I really just wanted to write some things that you might consider while you are sorting out the whole thing.
Best wishes & take good care of yourself.
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I love him dearly. I hate the idea of ending my marriage. Then there is another part of me that wants to be free and I am not sure I can be free within this marriage. I am slowly sorting my inner feelings through.
What does being free in a marriage mean to you? What does it look like?
My H's changes are mostly 'realizations' which seem surprisingly insightful. They don't come easily (mostly after months without sex or something), and I am still waiting to see how long they really last. I am waiting to see if his behavior only changes form...
Realizations are pretty shallow compared to actions.
As of late he has suggested we go to counseling together. I told him I would be happy to go if he made the appointment... That was several months ago. Some people are convinced counseling is necessary in this kind of case. I still tend to agree.
Why wait for him to make the appointment? That seems like kind of an unnecessary power struggle. If you want to see a therapist, you can initiate the process without losing all your power.
bunny
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sjkravill
You are suffering from PTSD...there is absolutely no question about it. Read the thread i started a while back "does the n get her just deserts"....i too went through 4 months of PTSD...no sleep, no appetite, high anxiety, nightmares, energy tremors, (trembling) high stress.....compulsiveness....all issues that i never in my life had ever experienced.....it wasn't until i did extensive research on the web, read many books, joined two support groups, went to shamanic healing, saw a theripist weekly, that the truth arrived....i had an 8 year relationship with a malignant NPD person.....and was nearly destroyed by this woman.
In my human experience I have NEVER experienced such pain. YOU NEED TO RUN and RUN FAST.....you will be destroyed by this man
Good luck and GOD bless you
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Dear sjkravill
As you can see, there’s a lot of concern about you here. Your posts are touching people who want to help. We care, we really do. We can’t come and see you, look in your eyes, hold your hand and talk with you face to face. All we can do is post back.
I love him dearly. I hate the idea of ending my marriage.
I found your first sentence stuck in my mind overnight. Then I noticed what it was followed by. I want to ask:
What do you love about him? I’d like to know, get to know what he’s like. I’m curious. When you feel good, when you feel love for him, how does that feel….?
What do you hate in the idea of ending your marriage? When you think “we’ll get divorced” or “I’ll leave him” (which?) – what pictures are in your head, or what words do you hear? Are these thoughts overwhelming?
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Dear Sjkravill,
Whenever I read your posts, I get the feeling that you are such a kind and giving person. I hardly know you and already I want the very best for you. And it seems to me that your H just isn't the best for you. Sometimes I think we become attached to people for various reasons, but if our own welfare is at stake, I think we need to detach and move on. Trust me, I know it is not easy...breaking away. Yet on the other side of it all, there are other people waiting. People who are kind and do care about what is best for other people. I want that for you.
Please take care of yourself.
Learning
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Hi again,
Thank you all for your kindness. Let me see if I can flesh it out some more. Thanks for all of your thought provoking questions.
What do I love about him? He has a very sweet, romantic side. He just sent me a mixed CD for our anniversery of all of the love songs that remind him of me. He can say the kindest things about me. Sometimes I am sure he is crazy about me. I am attracted to how clever he can be (when he is in a non-sadistic way). He goes to great lengths to make me laugh. I am attached to him too... because I know him so well. I know his suffering and I care about him deeply.
I always said I would never let this sort of thing happen to me. But it sort of sneaks up gradually. Then, by the time I realize it, the stakes are so high, because I are involved. Shit! I am two years married! I am willing to let things go now, that I would never have tolerated from an objective perspective.
What would ending the relationship mean? It would mean breaking his heart. Breaking the hearts of his family, disappointing mine... It would mean the loss of a dream. The dream I had of a relatively good marriage that would last a long time. It would mean major heartache and stress. It would mean the loss of the good times, the loss of some love, the loss of potential and companionship. Right now, I could not be sure I was doing the right thing. What if this is just one of those hard times we will get through? What if it's mostly in my head?
Of course, there is also the fantasy of being independent and free. I don't know why marriage and independence have to be mutually exclusive in my mind.
What does being free in marriage look like? Good question. I wish I could articulate it. H convinces me that he wants that for me. So, I start to think I am expecting too much. He is benevolant and hoping the best for me, and I am only holding myself down. Truthfully, I don't know what I mean by that.
Why must I go back? I am only away on an internship. I have big plans to go to my dream grad school in the fall. We are not separated or even in a state of conflict at the moment. I want it to all work out.
Why can't I make the appointment for counseling? Because I need to be convinced that he is committed. I don't know if the suggestion was only a calculated attempt to get me happy again.
Thanks again for your kindness, and letting me process
Peace, sjkravill
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Hi Sjkravill --
I'm sure this must be very hard for you and I wish you the best in sorting out your feelings.
Why can't I make the appointment for counseling? Because I need to be convinced that he is committed. I don't know if the suggestion was only a calculated attempt to get me happy again.
However, I agree with Bunny on the issue of therapy. You say that you need to be convinced that he is committed, yet you say it's been several months since he made the offer and you told him you wanted him to make the appointment. If he was serious, he would have done it. By not following through on this, I think you're signalling to him that he can win you over with nice words without actually having to change his behavior.
So call his bluff. Tell him you're making the appointment yourself. If he agrees, you may have taken the first step to some important changes. If he now refuses to go, you'll know that the offer was a sham. Either way, you'll have learned something.
With best wishes,
Morgan
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Since you've only been married two years, you have a lot to lose by not getting out now. Why wait until the inevitable happens with kids and lots of investment in time, emotions, etc.?
Your situation sounds like a book I read a few years back called "I closed my eyes". I can't remember the author's name - Michelle something I think. But her husband sounds exactly like yours.....sweet, heart rending notes and all. But he turned out to be a bigtime monster.
Dearest, you are young. You have opportunities us old broads on the board don't have. You have time on your side. But you won't always have it. Most of us have spent too many years giving too much and suffering too much for abusive people. And you are in a "choice" situation meaning you aren't putting up with a parent or sibling or someone you can't get away from.
You sound like you are fantasizing a bit. I don't mean to be patronizing. I just wish you had the hard won knowledge of some of us who are 20-30 years older and have been there, done that so to speak.
Good luck to you.
MM
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Hi,
I haven't finished reading all of your response posts, but I had to jump in and comment on a few things.....
the realiziations and admittances of his wrongdoing, the insights, are all tools with which to manipulate you into staying with him and even feeling sorry for him! Yes, hooks they are! I have been on the receiving end of so many of these insights and realizations from my xN - it's why I stayed 8 years with him! They always fill you with hope and you think it's so hard for them to admit their wrongdoing. But, sadly, it's easy - they know what you want to hear and they produce it for their own purpose of your loyalty. They don't really have feelings so they're not humiliated, embarrassed, remorseful, etc. upon admitting how wrong they've been, messed up they are, selfish, etc - you and I would feel this way under the same circumstances, but they don't - they lack real feeling. Do NOT get sucked in.
Also, I left an N recently - after 8 years of marriage. I have kids. It was the hardest thing I've ever done in my life to leave, but boy oh boy i feel great now! I'm free! I can not describe the simple joy of feeling safe and thinking for yourself!
I don't know the history of abuse in your relationship, but if you're at all scared of your husband, you have reason to be. If the abuse is emotional now, it could get physical . If it's "on the edge" of being physical, it will progress. This is what happened to me. Therapists will not see this, point it out, etc, for the most part - especially couples' counselors. It's couples counselors' job to try to work things through. Who to trust to make this decision? You! You're strong, you're smart, and you and your children (I'm sorry if you don't have any and i'm mistaken - i think i read that you do?) deserve to feel healthy! If that means getting away then go for it. It may be the hardest thing you'll ever do but it will be the best.
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sjkravill:
Check out this webpage:
http://www.drjoecarver.com/loser.html
See if it fits your husband. Don't lie to yourself; I know about lying to yourself because you love someone. I loved someone, too, but he doesn't love me. It only LOOKS like he loves me. I deserve the real thing and so do you. Anyone who HURTS you, again and again and again, does NOT love you! Believe me, I know: I left my man two months ago and you're right about how much it would hurt you. It hurt terribly; I was convinced that he loves me (still think so, in his own way, but I'm probably delusional!) and I knew I loved him (except the part that I hated)! You have to care more about yourself, though, than you care about anyone else. No one in this world is going to care as much about you as you do (maybe your parents and siblings, that's it).
I don't care that he ...has a very sweet, romantic side.
My love had one, too. He was the most romantic man I've ever known (and I'm older than you with much more experience). EVERYTHING with him, when he was GOOD, was the best. He knew just what to say and when to say it; just what to do and when to do it. But it wasn't worth the PAIN when he WASN'T the "best." And, by the end, he was not "good" most of the time. I felt like I was being eaten alive; my personality changed because of him.
What would ending the relationship mean? It would mean breaking his heart. Breaking the hearts of his family, disappointing mine... It would mean the loss of a dream. The dream I had of a relatively good marriage that would last a long time. It would mean major heartache and stress. It would mean the loss of the good times, the loss of some love, the loss of potential and companionship. Right now, I could not be sure I was doing the right thing. What if this is just one of those hard times we will get through? What if it's mostly in my head?
If he is a narcissist, "breaking his heart" is not possible. A narcissist loves no one but themselves. As for the loss of a dream: even if that were true, that's a very small thing compared with the loss of your SELF. And if he is a narcissist, you can be sure that you will lose your self if you stay. And if you must end this marriage, that doesn't mean your dream dies. You can still have a good marriage that lasts a long time! You cited a long list of "losses" but I'm telling you that none of those things is worth the loss of your SELF. Read that list on the webpage I gave very, very carefully and honestly and you should be able to tell, in your heart of hearts, if you would be doing "the right thing."
One of the things that leaped out at me in your initial post was ...my story of mostly emotional abuse from h just spilled out.
When you say "mostly" are you saying that he has hit you, shoved you, pushed you, or physically abused you in ANY way? If so, you shouldn't even look back when you leave!
Sorry if my directness is hurtful; I don't mean to be hurtful but it's amazing how we humans rationalize away reality with what we WANT to see. We have to have the rationalizations stripped away in order to get to the truth. It's important, so I'll say it again: Anyone who HURTS you, again and again and again, does NOT love you!
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This is what I think I know about sjkravill.
She’s 22 (maybe 23 by now, don’t know when birthday is).
The sex with this man isn’t good from her point of view. I personally get the feeling of some power thing going on with him, if only in his head, but that’s just a feeling.
Sjkravill has been uneasy sleeping in the same bed/room as him. I wonder if she has ever slept in a bed with a man and felt safe, warm, loved, accepted? That’s a lovely feeling isn’t it gals? Just wonderful quiet sleep with someone you trust completely. One of life’s gifts.
Apart from being romantic, I can’t see what this guy does in terms of a mutual relationship. Personally, I‘d want to marry someone who would care for me if I’d broken all my limbs. Someone who would wipe my bottom. Someone who would love me if I had sh*t all over me, someone who would love me for my mind, my opinions, the stuff I could share with him which together would make us a greater ‘whole’ than two individuals. Someone who sees the world in a similar way. Someone who could have a darn good debate with me about …. er…..whether people are born or made evil.
Sjkravill does not have any kids. Tricky one this. If she did have kids, she’d probably snap out of this half-life and realise she has to protect the little ones. She’d leave him, no doubt. But she doesn’t have kids and she *only* has her-Self to protect. No big deal then huh? She can let her own life go down the pan. Shame though, she seems such an intelligent, loving, caring person with so much potential. What a sadness that she’s going to let someone suck that life-force from her, make her a slave to his ego. What a tragedy. But what can I do?
Ah well, never mind, there are lots of women like her out there, not living for themselves, worrying about what other people think. Living under the misguided idea that what they do will affect others. It’s a pity they don’t realise just how selfish most people are - for good reasons sometimes – when you keep being cr*pped on, it can make you self-ish huh?
I was real sad when a colleague confided in me that her husband had moved in with another woman. She was 50. It seemed like the marriage of 30 years was over. I asked if she would file for the divorce. Know what she said? She shuffled uncomfortably in her seat and said…. “well yes, but, ahem, well I’m worried about doing it”. Why, I asked? “Because – what will people think of me?” Ah Jeez. I want to take you on a trip round the world, I want to take you tap-dancing, I want to see you ride a camel, snorkel over the Barrier Reef. I want to see you do what you want, once you know what that is. We’ll have great FUN finding out! Stuff duty and obligation and doing what you think you OUGHT to do. Come dancing with me on the square below the Eiffel Tower. We’ll put flowers behind our ears and wink at all the men. We’ll go to Katz’s Deli, which, I only just realised, is where the scene in ‘When Harry met Sally’ was filmed. We’ll do a double fake O scene for real (I bet women do it all the time).
But I didn’t do any of that with my colleague 4 years ago and I still think about her about once a month, wonder how she is. Maybe I could call her. I dunno. She probably wouldn’t want to do any of those things anyway. I don’t think she knew how to have fun, she was tethered by the ropes of her childhood I guess. Sad. Ah well, never mind.
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I’ve been thinking more about my colleague. She had two boys. She stopped work to care for them and raise them. They did okay for themselves. They had their mother’s love. But I guess her hubby didn’t exactly show respect for her, coz her boys grew up to treat her like a doormat. One had a big City job, making loads of money. She still cooked their meals, did their washing and these lads are in their early 20s. She felt it was her duty I guess. When she needed an operation, they didn’t put themselves out to take her to the hospital. Another colleague took her instead, looked after her. Then hubby found a younger lady, one who could reignite his dibbly. So he left. But younger lady didn’t cook his meals, didn’t care for him in the same way. So he turned up on my lady’s doorstep, crying, saying he didn’t know if he’d done the right thing.
What did she do? She empathised with him. Said it broke her heart to see him in that ‘dark place’ he was in. They had two weeks’ holiday booked just after he’d left. What did she do for that two weeks? She sat on her sofa in her dressing gown. For two weeks. Then she came back to work. She worked for me. I had no idea this was going on at the time. Why? Coz she was a-shamed. She kept it secret, felt it was all her fault. And she was so confused. She’d done all the right things in life, what happened? He would have retired soon, “we would have been in clover” she said to me. Got to do all those things she’d imagined. Moved to the coast, grown a beautiful big garden. Instead she sits alone, in her dressing gown, wondering what went wrong. At 50. It’s no big deal is it? It happens all the time. All the time.
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Hi again,
And just 2 other thoughts to your post -
You say he's romantic - that he gave you a tape of the songs you shared or that reminded him of times you spent together, and how this is so sweet of him. I'ts not sweet of him. Sweet of him would be to give you something that you treasure - that you alone (not him) are interested in. He's not thinking of you necessarily in giving you this gift of "your songs" - he's guilting you into staying. In giving you this gift, he's saying, "look, look at what we've shared. We're special together. Remember these good times." This is manipulation and is a ploy to pull on your heartstrings. Of course, I don't know your N so i could be totally wrong - i'm just fitting his actions in to what i've seen from Ns. All the pulling on heartstrings, manipulation. Be wary of it.
His family - you say you like them so much. Be careful about trusting/ garnering feedback from them. They see your N with as all families do, with a biased eye. They will make excuses for him, describe his malicious actions in not -so-bad terms. They will remind you that he's a good soul. They may be blind parents, or they may be Ns themselves. Also, maybe you like them bc they're different from your own parents? Or, they are so nice on the surface? When I questioned my Ns family about some of my ex N's behavior, they minimized it, admitted "He's difficult but worth it", etc. etc. His mom I realized is an N and his dad is so crushed from his wife (the ball busting N) (sorry for the profanity)that he has no opinion left in him.
That's my 2 cents. Stay strong. See clearly. Keep talking. We're here.
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I feel some unfair assumptions were made about me in portia's post. I understand the good intent. I don't want to spend time correcting things. I just want to say that for me, at this juncture, there is a fine line between helping with honesty, and assuming too much which sort of kicks me when I am down.
peace, sjkravill
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Hey sjkravill: I talked about you and now you’re talking about me! Wow! Did I annoy you? Shall we talk to each other again? Hey, I’m going to talk to you, you can choose to ignore me or whatever, I don’t mind, honestly, I don’t mind.
Okay, if I’m assuming too much, so what? It’s just how I see things. No big deal. Who am I? Does it matter what I say to you? I’m not saying any of it is factual, just my perspective, what I think I know.
I understand the good intent.
In what way do you understand it? This is a serious question.
which sort of kicks me when I am down.
Why does it kick you? What in what I said ‘kicks you’? I really don’t understand this. Or I don't understand what you mean by 'kicks'.
You can come back and correct me, but you say you don’t want to spend time correcting things. Okay. But it was not my intention to kick you when you’re down, most definitely not. If you like I’ll tell you what my intention was, truly, but I’m not sure you want to hear from me again. Whatever, it’s okay, I don’t mind. There are other people on this thread who aren’t saying things like I’ve said them and maybe their words will help pick you up again, because it reads like they really do care and they’re putting themselves out for you. Hey and I thought maybe I should apologise when I first read your post, but I’m not sure what I should be apologising for. I don’t think I kicked you. And unless you do correct me, I won’t know. So I’m sorry (!) but I can’t apologise yet. Hope that makes sense. P
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Dear sjkravill,
I'm in & out in this forum, and I felt compelled to come out of lurk mode to reply to this.
In the midst of all you are going through, I wouldn't concern yourself with messages that you find antagonzing, and especially getting into explaining why they antagonized you. I think you were very wise not to become explanatory last time around.
If it were me, I'd simply let these things flow into the wind & disappear, and focus on the most important issues in life, now (which I'm sure you are doing).
You can save your writing time and emotional energy for the exchanges that fit well with your spirit, and let go of what you feel doesn't suit you.
For what it is worth, I also felt the same as you regarding the e-mail you were speaking about (and the 2nd for that matter). To me only (my "opinion"), it lacked diplomacy, seemed cavalier, and all of the assuming about you & your life (in very private areas as well), felt inappropriate.
People have dif. writing styles and the writer says this was not their intent. But if the writer knows they have offended someone, particularly someone in a very, very shaky place emotionally at that time, whether unintended, a simple "I'm so sorry you were offended" instead of "explain to me why you were offended in detail-I don't see it- I cant' say sorry now", would go a long way.
However, it would require the writer's empathy. The ability to step outside of themselves (it isn't about them) for a moment, and consider the vantage point of someone else.
If the writer does not reconize this, I guess it is just a matter of "agreeing to disagree". No point in getting hooked into arguments. That is why I will not be commenting to any remarks made on this posting.
I simply wanted to relay these things to sjkravill, and also my hope that she is doing well.
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What do I love about him? He has a very sweet, romantic side. He just sent me a mixed CD for our anniversery of all of the love songs that remind him of me. He can say the kindest things about me. Sometimes I am sure he is crazy about me. I am attracted to how clever he can be (when he is in a non-sadistic way). He goes to great lengths to make me laugh. I am attached to him too... because I know him so well. I know his suffering and I care about him deeply.
I take it at face value that he is crazy about you. You still have to decide whether or not he is qualified as a life-partner for you.
I'm wondering how sadistic he is. My H has been emotionally sadistic to me when he felt cornered. I thought he was being immature and defending himself in a primitive way. His sadism was brought up in therapy and he was confronted about it. I also had to acknowledge my own sadism which comes out sometimes. So my question is, how serious is the sadism, and how typical of his personality is it? Does he enjoy it? Does it feel normal to him? Does it ever make him feel guilty? This is a significant couples therapy topic.
Of course, there is also the fantasy of being independent and free. I don't know why marriage and independence have to be mutually exclusive in my mind.
What does being free in marriage look like? Good question. I wish I could articulate it. H convinces me that he wants that for me. So, I start to think I am expecting too much. He is benevolant and hoping the best for me, and I am only holding myself down. Truthfully, I don't know what I mean by that.
Being married is not being independent. You can't do whatever you want, whenever you want. You may be confused about the difference between autonomy and independence. Autonomy is about having authority over yourself and making decisions regarding yourself. Independence is more about doing whatever you want and answering to no one. In marriage, I am independent *within limits*. But marriage doesn't limit my autonomy.
Why can't I make the appointment for counseling? Because I need to be convinced that he is committed. I don't know if the suggestion was only a calculated attempt to get me happy again.
How about making an appointment and asking this question in front of the therapist? If you want your marriage to work out, you may have to take a pro-active stance. It sounds like you're either testing him (I think he's failed the test already so why bother continuing it), or passively waiting for him to do something.
take care,
bunny
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This is what I think I know about sjkravill.
Portia,
I love ya but I can see how this rubbed her the wrong way. It would have done this to me as well.
your friend,
bunny
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I know this isn't a spitting contest (I left out the other more vulgar version), but I don't waste my time being offended because it gives your power to another person. It really doesn't matter what another person says or does, if it has no truth, it shouldn't touch you. If it has truth, maybe you should examine deeper.
Many of us give apologies too easily without asking questions. We have been conditioned by Ns and others that we are always wrong. I think it's a healthy thing for Portia to ask for clarifying information before she gives an apology. That way she won't feel hijacked so to speak.
I'm not saying anyone is a N here. Please don't misunderstand that. Sjkvrill did say she needed help. I see a lot of people giving good advice. "LOVE" shouldn't be that trying. If it is, perhaps something is wrong. S is young and has no kids. Better to know the truth now while there is still time. And the truth sometimes does hurt. Maybe that should be more of an indicator than what any one poster says. I think everyone knows by now that Portia has a great heart.
And I wish sjkvrill the best with trying to reconcile this relationship.
Nassim
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To everyone,
Hi. I just want to point out that just because someone gets offended doesn't mean the "offender" necessarily did anything wrong. I have had experience with people who get offended very easily and have learned that this is more about them than anyone else.
I am not saying that sjkvrill did anything wrong either. If someone says they are offened, I do think it's something they should explain IMO. If not, the other party can't defend themselves. It's just a fair thing to do.
Renee
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Sorry, I mispelled your name. Sjkravill, okay?
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Sorry I seem not to be able to get all of my thoughts into one post. You say sometimes he's better after months with no sex? In healthy marriages sex is much more frequent. Why is there months with no sex (other than when you are off like right now for 4 weeks)?
You mentioned it, so I'm just asking. If you don't want to answer, okay.
Renee
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Nassim
This is not an enviroment where there is a N (parent or other) continuously beating down a right to express or question. Don't need to "fight" N battles with everyone you come in contact with by over-expressing a need that was lacking previously.
On a board like this it can be made plain and simple or difficult.
Difficult = You wanna be right more than anything else.
Simple = You wanna be supportive to others here, above all else. That does not mean not standing up for yourself or asking for clarification, etc., it just means knowing when to, and knowing when to back off.
Honestly, I can't see how someone would not be a bit offended or at least taken aback by the tone & boldness/assumed authority of that e-mail if it were directed at them.
And renee-- what makes you think that S has nothing better to do than to waste energy defending why she feels how she feels? She has enough going on. Do you know what PTSD is like?
And if "S"did explain, I guarantee it would have just led to more denials and conflict, instead of resolution. It is almost a cliche pattern for discussion boards. That is why it is better not even to get into things sometimes.
And no, everyone does not know about Portia's good heart (though it is nice to know) I just got here not long ago.
It seemed like the wrong time for confrontational honesty, and if no harm was intended, then fine. Forget the misunderstanding and move on with good feeling. All Portia had to do in good faith, to keep the peace and help another struggling emotionally, was to apologize that S's feelings got hurt in her attempt to help. That's it.
Everything does not have to be long drawn out therapy because of what happened in life with an N parent or spouse.Sometimes simplicity goes a lot further and adds to the healing process for all parties involved, a lot more.
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Softpeach,
You are entitled to your opinion. I stand by mine.
PTSD is assumed here. We don't really know. That's another flaw of a message board. We just don't have enough info..
It's clear from rereading all of P's posts, she is very concerned about S.
Nassim
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SP,
Don't need to "fight" N battles with everyone you come in contact with by over-expressing a need that was lacking previously.
Gee, I think that was just over-expressed.
Nassim
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Is RC back on this board? I thinks I smell a rat.
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Nooooo, it was relevant and in direct context to:
Nassim wrote:
Many of us give apologies too easily without asking questions. We have been conditioned by Ns and others that we are always wrong. I think it's a healthy thing for Portia to ask for clarifying information before she gives an apology. That way she won't feel hijacked so to speak.
At any rate, I do agree with what you said in your 1st message about our opinions being different. I'm at okay with that- not much more to say.
No bad feeling on my part.
Peace....
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One poster said that P should have just said sorry regardless of even knowing what to say sorry to. I was responding to him/her.
I think P asking that question was appropriate. Just MO.
Nassim
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Hi Sjkravill,
I hope you are doing OK. Hang in there! Everyone who has responded is trying to help in their own way.
Just my own two cents, when I was sharing my story a few months ago, I sometimes would feel a little put off by responses that seemed to say "leave the SOB ASAP". although I know that all responders did so out of a desire to help me, and I appreciated everyone's input and concern.
There is a fine line between honoring your marriage commitment by struggling with hard issues and trying to reach your H and help him see and alter his destructive behavior, and enduring abusive treatment from someone who cannot or will not change. S, I can tell that you are smart enough to figure it out, although it may take more time.
I sometimes beat up on myself for "putting up with too much" or "staying too long", but the truth is that is not what happened. I took my marriage commitment very seriously and felt I owed it to myself to try as best I could to make it work. In the end, my H seemed hellbent on his own destructive path and then the right choice for me became very clear, and I could take decisive action. I saw I could not help him and could only save myself. But it only came after a painful struggle. The fact that you are going through this struggle now shows that you are a person who takes her commitments seriously and has good values. That shows your honesty and strength.
Only you can decide whether to stay or leave, and you can't decide that until you are ready. It takes time to figure these things out, and you owe it to yourself to give yourself that time. Uncertainty is very hard. But if you keep on the path you are on, you will get clarity. And then you will know what to do and find the resources to do it.
Take care of yourself!
pandora
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Don't need to "fight" N battles with everyone you come in contact with by over-expressing a need that was lacking previously.
Does Nassim fight N battles with everyone he comes into contact with? I haven't noticed this. This sounds a bit over the top to me. Don't mean to be a contrarian here, but I definately think that was overstatement. That's just my opinion. Sorry to be off thread here.
SJKRAVILL, hang in there. We're all pulling for you!
MM
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Pandora,
You are very wise. I liked your post very much. I think Sjkravill will have to figure things out in her own time. We all want to rescue her like she is our daughter.
:)
MM
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One poster said that P should have just said sorry regardless of even knowing what to say sorry to. I was responding to him/her.
I think P asking that question was appropriate. Just MO.
Nassim
Yes, I see your point. I guess for some people [like me] it is really blatantly plain as to what might be offensive about that message, and for others it is not so clear, or even agreeable. What I am beginning to realize is just how wide spectrums of perception are. Again, I can see yours.
But S did say what she was offended about. She said that there were unfair assumptions made. The only thing she didn't want to do, was go detail by detail and correct them all, which would require her time and emotional energy, both of which might be used better focused elsewhere at such a trying time.
As was said before, detailed explanations also often lead to more conflict with the other person, so it is best in cases to let it go, as well.
I just think it would have been really helpful if P had just said something like "if I made unfair assumptions and you have been hurt by this, I apologize". "I didn't mean to".
Sometimes it can be so quick and easy to mend things.
Peace...
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Sorry MM:
You misunderstood the whole exchange.
This was not directed at Nassim at all. I don't even know him as a board member. Just from the exchange we had, though we disagree, he seems very calm, very nice, and very smart.
If you read back it might become clearer, or by replacing "you" with "one" might help.
Just FYI.
Peace....
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To me this was between P and S. On this board we are dealing overwhelmingly with Ns. And regardless of whether your statement was directed at Nassim, it was still overstated IMO. Have you dealt with Ns? If you haven't then maybe you can't appreciate the content of the statement that Nassim made. No, everything is not about Ns. I don't think anyone thinks everything is about Ns. Or long term therapy.
I didn't agree with your simple vs. difficult analogy either. To me you sounded a bit hostile and a wee patronising. It reminds me of someone who used to be here on the board and exhorted everyone to go reread their posts...like they made a mistake or didn't know what they were saying. The longer you are here, the more you'll see that the posters here generally are very knowledgable and considered in their responses.
In any case, welcome.
MM
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MM:
I have extensive experience with N's and what I said would apply to my own self as well. I think saying things are not always about that, is accurate, and advice I try to heed myself, as well. I've heard the same from therapists.
You are taking what I said way too harshly, and contrary to your last words, your tone with me is hardly welcoming
I also don't know why you are comparing me to someone who you say used to be here and whatever you think that person's insecurity is. That is not fair or necessary, and I find it presumptuous and insulting.
To me, you sound a little hostile toward me. I had no personal exchange with you (and ended mine with Nassim amicably), and it
seems you have taken it upon yourself to try to "lecture" me, and tell me I will learn more or "wise up" as I stick around the group.
Sorry-you've got it wrong.
I'm not here to cause any discord and I am a very kind hearted, caring person.
I'll end it here because I'm really looking for more peaceful exchanges with members here.
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You are taking what I said way too harshly, and contrary to your last words, your tone with me is hardly welcoming
Well I guess you are taking my words too harshly as well. And you seemed to take Portia, Nassim and Renee's too harshly as well. Sorry I have an instinct to take up for posters who have been here a while.
Sorry about comparing you to the now maybe defunct poster. She was waaaay too sensitive and it bloated the board imo. But my apology is sincere none the less.
I am a nice person too. But I don't think that's the point, my point anyway.
MM
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Since I don't know you, I have no way of knowing if you've dealt with Ns or not. I wasn't being insulting at all in fact. Sorry you took it that way.
MM
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Maybe I should just say "Uncle" ! LOL
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Maybe you should just keep your mouth shut and stop slagging people off.
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MM:
I am genuinely here to have peaceful exchanges, to lend support, and be supported at times, and also to learn and grow.
I appreciate your last mails, and just want to let the negative energy go.
So, I will add "truce" to your "uncle" :)
Take care.
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oh my!
I am so sorry to have caused such a heated conflict!
I think almost everyone means well, and everyone comes to the board with their own stuff.
P meant well, and of course has a valuable voice on this board. P, I appreciate your voice. I hope this doesn't mean we can't have any more board exchanges. I am also allowed to write about how I feel, and no one has to explain anything. I really didn't mean to hijack anyone.
This board is about everyone having a voice, right?
I do appreciate y'all's concern, and your wisdom. I did ask for it!
I think and hope that Pandora is right. That clarity will come and that I will work this out in my own time.
I think I am going to stay quiet for a while and let this pass over!
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Maybe you should just keep your mouth shut and stop slagging people off
Really, is someone or somebody having a regression?
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Oh my. Slagging is a noun.
Are ye speakin' the king's english or the queen's english?
Just have to know. Heeee, heeee
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Gosh! I am checking in for the the day and am very surprised at the turn this thread has taken :-(
I don't want to add to things so I will refrain from saying what my opinion is.
I only want to say that Sjkravill, it is good to hear from you. As I was reading more and more, I was wondering whether the whole thing blowing up would deter you from posting any further, even if you felt you could use the support.
Doesn't seem like it. Good! IMHO, no need for it to.
I really hope things in this thread get sorted out soon, with no lasting hard feelings between people.
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oh my!
I am so sorry to have caused such a heated conflict!
You didn't S, these people are responsible for their own nonsense and heated conflicts.
I think almost everyone means well, and everyone comes to the board with their own stuff.
Yep, can agree with you cause you said 'almost'. :D
P meant well, and of course has a valuable voice on this board.
Absa- fruitin'-lutely. Thanks S for saying that and recognising P's intent.
P, I appreciate your voice.
Onya S. :D You're my new hero for today. Hip hooray! :D
I hope this doesn't mean we can't have any more board exchanges.
Good healthy thought/hope there.
I am also allowed to write about how I feel,
You sure are. Keep on keepin' on. It's all learning and growth. Even the yucky parts.
and no one has to explain anything.
Nope! I think we write here at our own risk and in our own wonderful freedom. People have a right to respond, in their way. And they do so at their own risk, in their wonderful freedom.
I really didn't mean to hijack anyone.
Chooong. :arrow: Shot straight over my head, this one. hahahahahah Didn't get it all. :D That's okay. Never thought of you as a hijacker. :D
This board is about everyone having a voice, right?
Amen S. That's how we learn to recognise whether we could be bothered with each other or not. Whether we like or agree with each other. :D It's part of learning about ourselves. Ya see, :D I read this post of yours here, and liked your voice, and what you said, so decided to respond to you.
I do appreciate y'all's concern, and your wisdom. I did ask for it!
I think and hope that Pandora is right. That clarity will come and that I will work this out in my own time.
That's all you've really got, in the end. Your own time on this earth! So I guess I have to agree and say " Of course it will."
I think I am going to stay quiet for a while and let this pass over!
It's your call S. But dare I say, and this is my voice, I really question the 'quiet' bit. A bit sad, I feel. But I won't assume too much. hahahahahahaha Diggin' ya' in the ribs there. :D Just wanna say, I don't think it'd be too good to let voicelessness back in, S. :(
That'd be sad.
Anyway, just want to re-affirm one thing. You aren't responsible for the crappy turn this thread took. And neither is P. These people are responsible for their own hair-pulling and cat-fighting.
hahahahah S, guess what? Can I say something irresponsible and child-ish. PLeease? It's even really quite funny in parts if you're just observing from a distance and aren't involved. I know it's not funny for you, and you're feeling kinda responsible, and that's not funny.
But how they're carrying on, from where I sit, it is funny! :D Reminds me of me in some threads. hahahahah
Oh well, I'll finish now. I'ts your life, your time, your call. But before I go, S, can I tell you what I'd do if I was you? If I was you I'd start a new thread hahahahaah, and ditch this one. It's got septicemia and gone toxic, and lost the plot of what you were/are on about. All the best to you S.
CG
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Dag nabbit. I'm gonna stay here and alienate ever' one on this here thread until I gets an apology from Portia. I demands it, doggone it.
And you other dim bulbers, I wants one from all yous too. Right now, Ya here me now?
I'm gonna have the last word no matter whats. Understands me? Yeah, ya all tried to dog pile me but that doggone pup won't hunt. Now gets back here and 'pologize to little ol me. And do it yesterday, ya hear?
Portia, you bettter cross that pond and get down on ya kneez, girl.
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To Dr G.
If that last post was meant as a joke, I don't think it wasn't funny. I thought it was quite sick. And I found it distubed. I'd like to suggest it's time for some intervention from the Good Dr. Dr G, I'm making a special request here. Will you please put a stop this, please? I mean, if peach pit continues, and harrasses Portia any more, will you do something? Maybe she'll stop. But please, if she doesn't!!!!
I don't know what you could do. Close the thread, block peach pit. Something! Anything! But please don't allow it to continue. Please. Not Portia, not anybody should be told to get on her knees to apologise. :(
CG
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Geeze, I guess stuff is only funny if it comes from you.
Yes...joke. Original poster was soft peach.
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Yeah real funny 'peach pit' which/who sounds so much like 'peice of s***'
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Sjkravill wrote:
What does being free in marriage look like? Good question. I wish I could articulate it. H convinces me that he wants that for me. So, I start to think I am expecting too much. He is benevolant and hoping the best for me, and I am only holding myself down. Truthfully, I don't know what I mean by that.
Is there a lack of trust? Do you feel he needs to define you? Please don't feel obligated to answer these questions. Just offering them. I've learned by staying in contact with one of my long-term bf's from my twenties that he still needs to define me and keep me on a pedestal. I don't see how a marriage can work if people are needing to put the partner on a pedestal. I'm glad I didn't marry this person now. Eventually, people on pedestals fall off.
Bunny brought up a very good point about the difference between independence and autonomy. Thanks, Bunny. Even when someone is, in fact, independent they can still feel tied to an N emotionally and forget that they are really independent.
I am so sorry to have caused such a heated conflict!
Apology accepted but it is not your fault. HAHA. A little humour here.
I am also allowed to write about how I feel, and no one has to explain anything.
True. And sometimes one can't explain something because they are not ready. The words don't come out. It is okay not to explain at demand. The question or statement, in itself, is good and can be re-read later when time has passed and then one might be able to offer an explanation. Almost everyone on this board really wants to heal and do the right thing for themselves and others. I don't see very many here shirking the explanation. I tend to be very impatient about explanations. Sometimes people don't have 'em when I want 'em and - depending on the situation - I can go a bit mental. Words coming into my mind now: patience and takes things slowwwwwwww. If people are really listening, they *will hear* and give it some thought and reply when ready.
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CG,
If you were reading properly, you'd know that people were sticking up for P. There was one soft peach and one other person outofmodelurker which may be the same person who were adamant about the apology.
Sorry you didn't like my humor, but no need for the rudeness. I was making fun of the soft peach person who kept getting in everyone's face about an apology.
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CG,
If you were reading properly, you'd know that people were sticking up for P. There was one soft peach and one other person outofmodelurker which may be the same person who were adamant about the apology.
Sorry you didn't like my humor, but no need for the rudeness. I was making fun of the soft peach person who kept getting in everyone's face about an apology.
Sniff Sniff - yep - recognise the smell of ! WAPOS. :roll: I'd know that smell anywhere. Hahahahah and quoting Nic, "Shields up" and retro rockets engaged. CG zoomin' outta here now. Leave up to you now S.
sad, that Old POS here couldn't let Dawning's good work stand. But 'onya Dawning anyway! :D
So I'm outta here folks, before some 'peice of shit's' stench sticks to me. Not engaging, POS! Go F*** yourself.
Will bring Dawning's post back to the top and hopefully POS won't interfere. But sadly, I don't think POS will be able to help himself. Or herself. We'll see.
CG
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Sjkravill wrote:
What does being free in marriage look like? Good question. I wish I could articulate it. H convinces me that he wants that for me. So, I start to think I am expecting too much. He is benevolant and hoping the best for me, and I am only holding myself down. Truthfully, I don't know what I mean by that.
Is there a lack of trust? Do you feel he needs to define you? Please don't feel obligated to answer these questions. Just offering them. I've learned by staying in contact with one of my long-term bf's from my twenties that he still needs to define me and keep me on a pedestal. I don't see how a marriage can work if people are needing to put the partner on a pedestal. I'm glad I didn't marry this person now. Eventually, people on pedestals fall off.
Bunny brought up a very good point about the difference between independence and autonomy. Thanks, Bunny. Even when someone is, in fact, independent they can still feel tied to an N emotionally and forget that they are really independent.
I am so sorry to have caused such a heated conflict!
Apology accepted but it is not your fault. HAHA. A little humour here.
I am also allowed to write about how I feel, and no one has to explain anything.
True. And sometimes one can't explain something because they are not ready. The words don't come out. It is okay not to explain at demand. The question or statement, in itself, is good and can be re-read later when time has passed and then one might be able to offer an explanation. Almost everyone on this board really wants to heal and do the right thing for themselves and others. I don't see very many here shirking the explanation. I tend to be very impatient about explanations. Sometimes people don't have 'em when I want 'em and - depending on the situation - I can go a bit mental. Words coming into my mind now: patience and takes things slowwwwwwww. If people are really listening, they *will hear* and give it some thought and reply when ready.
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Geeze, I guess stuff is only funny if it comes from you.
Yes...joke. Original poster was soft peach.
I'm really have no idea at all what the reference to myself is, but I just want to make it very, very clear that "peach pit" and myself, "softpeach" are two completely different, unaquainted people here on the board.
I'm not saying anything at all regarding the content of messages-- I only just want to make the difference between us clear.
Though maybe it will get confused naturally. I can see how it might. I think I'll change my name board to "strawberry" lol....
Now, peach pit, don't go changing yours to "strawberry stem" or something! lol
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Sorry you didn't like my humor, but no need for the rudeness. I was making fun of the soft peach person who kept getting in everyone's face about an apology.
Ahhh... I just read that. I get it all very nicely now. Well, I don't know what is going on with this group. :(
I'm going to join CG and leave.... Try another resource for support and sharing.
Best wishes to all of you.
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CG- Sorry you didn't like my humor, but no need for the rudeness.
You're kidding, right? You don't think what you wrote (your original little "joke") in regards to me was incredibly rude?!
You are completely wrong about me, and I'm too polite to actually say it in words myself, but before I leave here, I have to say I agree 100 % with CG's opinion of you.
I won't read through any more of this crazy thread- it's pointless.
Anyway, well wishes to all again. That's it for me in this neck of the woods.
Peace....
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SoftPeach, you make sense to me. I understand where you are coming from. Having 'risked' offending with traditional bluntness, Portia's response (when the offence was taken) was surprising. I then saw that you tried to explain your position, not 'get in everyone's face about an apology'. I hope you can feel heard by some of us and find a way to ignore this offensive little prick. It's a bit of a challenge, I know.
:twisted: MM clearly has multiple personality syndrome and thinks everyone else has, too!! HOW many different usernames have you taken up to date??? There will be none left soon for the rest of us. :lol:
Where do you 'get off', matey mouse : making fun of the soft peach person who kept getting in everyone's face about an apology.
This Board is not here to enable you to find a voice that chooses to make fun of people who are hurting and struggling to express their own thoughts and feelings.
What about supporting them to find positive ways of communicating for a better solution NOT 'hunt and destroy' for a bitter solution. 8)
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Soft peach is somebody from newbie thread
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Well, you can bet Portia is in the mix somewhere too.
Don't think for a second that a fiesty gal like that would be able keep so "hear a pin dropping quiet" with all this reference to her.
Alex, for 20 points, I'll take the category of "people"....
Let'sssss seeeee.... My answer is... I mean.... "Who", is MM, Snook, Peach Pit, Portia t..<interrupt> Sorry times up! Commerical break and can't get in the other 30 names, but your answer is correct!
Sorry to see you go SoftPeach. I totally understand the things you were sayin' and and more importantly, how you said 'em. With class. Some here could take a lesson, or two, or the full Ph.D course. It isn't really like that around here most of the time. If you are reading this you may want to consider staying a bit.
Let me apologise on the behalf of the more emotionally challenged here.