Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Elaine1966 on February 21, 2008, 10:55:20 AM
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HELP, I left him again and its killing me. I don't know if I want this pain. I sit here crying. I go from guilty to sad, to every other emotion. He is making me feel so bad. Now, he is saying that I abandoned him and how he just can't trust anyone because they will just leave him. He is pulling at my heart strings...I can't stand it! I don't know if I want this, but on the other hand I think I must do this. He is also saying that he guesses he can't live up to my standards, (financially), that he is not good enough for me, OUCH! Not true at all, I have loved him with my whole heart. If I am supposed to do this, WHY DOES IT HURT SO BAD? I feel like I am letting his boys down too! They love me very much as I do them. I feel horrible right now. Maybe he was trying to make our relationship work in the only manner he knows how??????
Elaine
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Elaine,
Can you write out (here if you wish) why you have decided to leave? I think seeing your words and the reasons will help you clarify. He will try anything to keep you from leaving, as he will not have control over you then. Please remember that.
We are here for you.
Love, Beth
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Hello Elaine,
So sorry for your pain. It hurts no matter what. The reason?
Because I bet you have a caring, loving, feeling heart.
Nother reason: I bet you aren't into playing these kinds of games.
One thing I noticed: Not sure how to put this gently (not my best skill):
This is extremely manipulative:
he is saying that I abandoned him and how he just can't trust anyone because they will just leave him.
He is an angel and has done, not a thing, wrong eh? Youuuuuuuu are the bad guy? He trusts according to youuuuuuuuuuuuuur behaviour? Isn't trust something one earns? Boy! Are you ever powerful eh? You can make or break his "abilities" so easily?
What hogwash!!
Rather than admit he may have contributed to your needing space from him, he is trying to manipulate you into thinking youuuuuuuuuu are huuuuuuuuuuurting poooooooooooor him, you meanie!!
What crap!!
and this:
He is also saying that he guesses he can't live up to my standards, (financially), that he is not good enough for me
It's alllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll youuuuuuuuu Elaine! You have such hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh standards!! (what are his standards, by the way? Is he financially where he has always dreamed of being, or it just youuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr dream he's devoted his entirrrrrrrrrrrrrre being to?).
Do you see where I'm going with this? The big manipulation game happening?
He'ssssssssssssss not gooooooooood enough for youuuuuuuuuuu?
Sorry to say, Elaine. Without knowing you or him or much at all about the situation, my humble opinion:
He's right!
He isn't good enough for you.
Not at all.
You don't deserve to take allllllllllll of the responsility, or all of the blame, or all of the power..........in any relationship.
And heeeeeeeee
is doing his darndest........
to try to make you "think"........it all belongs to you.
Major major giant manipulating garbage happening, I'm afraid.
So sorry for the kids and for your hurt.
Better now than in 20 years.
(((((((((((((large big hug))))))))))))))
Sela
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Elaine,
You have an extraordinary ability to empathize, that's why he chose you. You are vulnerable because you put his needs above yours. What you need to do is assign some time to yourself in order to put your needs, desires, wants, TOP priority. THEN, if you decide he can be part of your life, begin to make the moves toward that.
IF he waits, respects you and doesn't try to push you, then you know that he is going to be okay for you. If he begins the cycle of pulling you back in, using whatever means necessary (guilt, rage, attacks, "I can't live without you", etc. etc.) then you know that he has growing up to do and learning how to be a healthy person before he's ready for a relationship with you.
Time will tell. I know you're hurting, but time and space is necessary between you in order to keep your head clear from his nonsense behavior.
Dandylife
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Dear Elaine,
I am so sorry,
I shared with you of my exNH and please know, HE did exactly the same to me, for he knew my heart was kind and had empathy etc., so HE Manipulated me back.
Then, everything was 100% times worse than before. HE thought he had me in chains for life.
I have to go out right now, I will post again later.
Love, Leah
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I don't know if I want this, but on the other hand I think I must do this
Elaine...keep breathing. Keep drinking water. Make yourself eat healthful, simple food.
Take a walk. Look at trees.
Post some more.
Take another walk.
Drink more water.
I believe in your line above there's a big key...
your WANT is emotional--the painful storm that's blowing through you now.
your THINKING is your wise mind--it has identified, and truly/realistically, that you must. You were right.
So be brave about the storm of emotions. Let them blow but don't let them take over your wise mind, that could think, and reason, and realize.
He is not going to be a good partner.
Love is not enough.
Hops
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Thanks so much Beth, Sela and dandylife. You don't know how much your posts are helping me. Beth, the reason I have left him was because I feel he is not meeting my emotional needs. I have put so much into this relationship to not get anything back in return. He is emotionally abusive to me. I have tried and tried to talk to him about my feelings and I am told that I have issues and need to see a therapist. He also says, "I am not the goo goo gaa gaa type, and if that is what you want, go back to your ex-husband." He has also said that he is not a communicator and that I just need to live with that. If I don't do what he thinks I should do then there is something wrong with me. He is addicted to a computer game that has taken away time for us because he wanted to be on that game! When I try to talk with him, he either just sits there like a "wall" or he goes into a rage. He doesn't understand ANYTHING I try to explain to him. I can never count on him to be there for me. I could go on and on but don't have time.
Beth, your right that does help!
And Sela and dandylife, yes, I have always been told I have a big heart. I can't stand to hurt ANYONE, it just kills me. I am the type that likes to take everyone in and take care of them, take their hurt or pain away, etc... I would have given him the moon, but I felt so taken advantage of. I felt all I was to him was a provider, mother to his boys, keeper of the house all while he played on that game. He now had to go out and get a full-time job because we dont live together anymore (we used to for a year). He of course denies all of that saying that is not what he wanted me for that he loves me more than anything. But everytime I have needed him, he has never come through for me unless it was at his convenience.
Thanks for your responses, I need all the help I can get right now. And your all right, I need to stay away from him to get my head clear or I will cave in AGAIN!
((((((Hugs to you all))))))))
Elaine
Elaine
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Hops, Leah, Amber: I just sit here and cry as I read all your posts. I have been so blessed to have found all of you on this board. You really are helping me tremendously. EVERYONE on this board who have been helping me for the past weeks are a GOD SEND! I can't get through the day without re-reading all your posts.
Words alone can't express my appreciation to you all! I am heading to work so I can stay very busy, look at the trees, drink some water, talk with friends etc.
I will be checking posts throughout the day to keep me strong.
Love to you all,
Elaine
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Good for you Elaine!
Keep talking, if it helps. Many people here will understand and support you.
This is the place.
Especially when you feel the urge to "cave".
I bet you can do this and I bet you know you need to do it.
He is emotionally abusive to me.
Ofcourse he is.
and do you want that in your life?
I very much doubt it.
Take care of you, Elaine.
You're not "hurting" him. He's just trying to maniuplate/control your head.......make you think you are, is my guess. It sounds like he's good at it too. Don't play that game.
I have to get off my pc now. Sending you warm thoughts and hugs to help you through today.
Sela
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I have tried and tried to talk to him about my feelings and I am told that I have issues and need to see a therapist.
I have heard that one a lot too!!! And I am the one that sees a therapist, always trying to improve myself.
I can never count on him to be there for me.
That's reason enough to leave.
I can't stand to hurt ANYONE, it just kills me. I am the type that likes to take everyone in and take care of them, take their hurt or pain away, etc... I would have given him the moon, but I felt so taken advantage of.
That caring side has been my weak point and people like that are incredibly able to use it against us.
Have you read about being "narcissised" (Narcissistic Loves - How to cope, recover and move on)?
Hugs.
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If you DID give him the moon, Elaine...
he would soon remark that it's just a hunk of cheese.
Devaluing.
xo
Hops
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Dear Elaine,
Everyone has given you the absolute best possible counsel here... all true!
Please just remember that every single statement this man makes about you is really all about him.
Out of 100 things he says about you, there may be one that's true... and all the rest are lies.
Lies, Elaine.
Keeping your list of reasons why you want to end this relationship before you is a great motivator.
Reminding yourself of all that is positive about you, yourself, is also a huge help in keeping yourself on track as he works to deflate and devalue you. Again, remember that he is taking your virtues and turning them around into horrible flaws.
He knows that your big heart is full of love for him and that you'd do without all manner of "stuff" just to be happy with him, so what does he do? He twists that around and says it's all because he doesn't make enough money.
Lies, piled atop one another, into a heap of filth.
(((((((Elaine))))))) stand on the truth.
Love,
Carolyn
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Elaine,
I too am so sorry you are in such pain now, it reminds me of how I felt when I left XN BUT Elaine, there really is life after the N. Keep posting, it does not matter if it is the same stuff just keep getting it out of you and onto here. It does help. I am happy to listen and hear what you are saying along with many others here. He cannot hear you because he does not want to hear you. Well done for making the break, it does and will get better. He knew what he was doing when he choose you and has kept you in the trap because of your softness............. He will never hear you. You have given him many opportunities and nothing has changed, just the same stuff over and over again. I found it extremely helpful to make a list of all the reasons I could not stay with XN, it was very very long......... would it help you to do something similiar.
xxxx and hugs
axa
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Dear (((((((( Elaine ))))))))))
Think of your trip to lovely Costa Rica :)
Where you will be relaxing and finding your inner self.
Love, Leah
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Yes, you are all right. It has been a tough day for me, but I keep reading all your posts as a reminder of what I need to do. Over lunch, my assistants took me out. My associate took my phone away from me as he was calling over and over and over. He kept leaving messages that I must be having an affair with one of my client's because "people just don't leave people for no reason." He then said "don't have your secretary screening your calls, you need to call me as you owe me that." Then says, "you don't want to go down that road." What that meant, I don't know.
Because I am a wreck, three of the girls that work for me are coming over to my house and staying with me as they don't want me alone and they are worried he may try to come over to my house. I am just very down and don't like being alone. I start to miss him, I don't know why?? This is one of the hardest things I have ever had to do as I still love this man. I have never felt this way and I am so confused with myself as to how I can love a man who treats me the way he does. I have never put up with that type of behavior in the past....it just blows me away.
I am sorry I haven't read any other individuals threads in order to give advice for them and their issues, today is just a bad day and I feel very useless to everyone.
Hugs to you all,
Elaine
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Elaine,
First - know that I have been in a spot very similar to yours.
IF you really want to leave him (your priority is not to be attached to the drama, the way he makes you "feel", etc.), then you will do just that, LEAVE HIM. There is no TRY. You do it.
N's need certainty or they will feed off of your "uncertainty". They will cling to that like a liferaft and use it for all it is worth.
Say the words, "I AM LEAVING YOU." "Your behavior is not acceptable to me." "Get help and fix these things, and THEN talk to me."
IF he is so enlightened as to ask what needs fixing (most N's would not even consider the possibility there is anything that needs fixing): then tell him:
1) Ask. Do not order me around.
2) There are 2 people in this relationship. My needs are important, too. Show respect.
3) etc. etc. Insert yours here.
Do NOT waiver. Do not become un-assertive. Ever. Do not go back for "just sex".
No contact until he has been in cognitive behavioral therapy for 6 weeks.
Get a diagnosis.
Go from there.
Take it from someone who has been there. If he is not willing to do these things, he is too enmeshed in his behavior to change.
Move on. There are healthy people out there. Find one!
He will let you know if he's pliable or not by his responses to these healthy things on your part.
Dandylife
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Oh, I forgot to tell you all that I booked my trip for the Dominican Republic instead of Costa Rica. Because I went there with my Nfiance last year, my counselor felt there would be too many memories of him and that I needed to go somewhere else and make new memories.
I leave on March 14th. Hopefully by the time I leave, I will be strong enough to be alone cause right now, I am not!
Blessings,
Elaine
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Such wise advise from you counselor, Elaine
the Dominican Republic sounds wonderful.
Just keep posting, as led, and then maybe you won't feel so alone in your situation.
Thoughts of you,
Leah x
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Elaine,
Congratulations on taking the final step to resolve this serious problem. I recall that you two had already separated residences. So this is the phase of the process of ending a horrible relationship. It is a necessity. As you know, he will not be able to change, and you are very fortunate to be able to get out now.
So sorry to hear that he is pulling your heart strings. He certainly knows how. He will use anything, including his own children, to manipulate you. You're a winner and he's a loser, and even in his afflicted mind, he knows it.
You may remember that I advised you to blame yourself (you can't meet his needs) in the breakup. I know, it's a ploy. But the objective to be served is important, and that is to get away quickly, without freaking him out. N rage is something to be avoided.
If blaming yourself isn't something that you want to do, then please consider talking about "the relationship" rather than him. What I am saying is that you need to avoid telling him what's wrong with him. He CAN'T fix it. No good can come of it, and the more you list his deficiencies, the more enraged he is likely to become. It sounds like some of the people around you are concerned about what action(s) he might take.
If you must talk to him, say something like "The relationship had too many problems. Schedules, priorities, interests..." These are not very personal or specific to HIM. Don't say, "You never listened. You didn't care. You took advantage of me. You have no emotional depth. You're stupid. Your thought process is extremely abnormal. I hate my life with you in it." All of these statements may be true. But they are inflammatory and serve no purpose other than to activate aspects of his personality that lead to events that end badly, sometimes with people on the news, and later in jail, and/or the graveyard.
Back away carefully. He CAN'T change. So there is no point in providing a detailed explanation. Make it sound as if the problems that existed in your former relationship were generated spontaneously, not caused by a person, and especially not the N. Act very strategically, Elaine, for the sake of all involved.
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Elaine,
I certainly can feel your pain, I was there only a short while ago. I never thought I would be able to enjoy life at all. Somethings still bring back the memories, but not anywhere near the pain of a few short months ago. I honestly was surprised I still have friends, because I didn't even like being around me and I didn't have a choice.
My girlfriend once told me in the begining that she had laughed for hours when her sister left her husband and told her "I never really loved him anyway". Obviously she did, but I'm begining to understand that comment. I looked at pictures last night of N and I on vacation, I can't even remember what I felt about him. At one time I would have done or given him anything.........hang in there you too will be here soon.
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Elaine-I experience the same type of behavior from my H. When we first got together he controlled me with angry outbursts. I would call him on his drinking and he would turn it around. He does not help out-he checks out. Now when we fight I just let him rant and rave and say things like THERE IS THE DOOR. Now he does not control me anymore. But I stay married to him. You have the opportunity to walk and know that you saved yourself from a life of frustration! You will be fine-youre lucky
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Hi Elaine,
Keep breathing.
Drink more water.
Look at trees.
Take a walk.
Drink more water...
And, please stop for a moment and think: if you needed life-saving surgery, you would submit to the pain of the recovery room. You would know that pain is part of your body's healing.
This is no different. This emotional pain you feel at the thought of your separateness is because you have chosen to save your own life. An amputation is involved. Something in you had FUSED with this toxic relationship. Like a tumor. You have excised it and the wound hurts.
You can do this. You can endure this discomfort. You can.
It was life-saving surgery. Remember that...would you re-operate and put a malignant tumor back in? The pain of another surgery when the full folly registered will hurt no less, and likely more.
Stay with it. Keep enduring.
Walk.
Water.
Trees.
And a trip!!
love
Hops
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Thinking of you today Elaine and hoping you are feeling stronger and clear headed (and that your heart is starting to heal....even a little).
There is such wonderful support here for you in this thread and I am hoping it is helping you to stick with your guns and look forward to much better days ahead. They will come!!
How are you today Elaine?
(((((((((hug))))))))))
Sela
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Thanks everyone for your recent reponses. I can tell today is not going to be any better. Let me catch you up to speed. He left me alone after lunch yesterday but then showed up on my door step at 1:00 am. He was on his way to a job site. We are Private Investigators. I was asleep. He handed me all his pics of us and his ring that I had bought him last year. He then stated, "when you get ready to have a relationship with me, call me." He then leaves my house and about 2 min later calls me and starts with the "I love you more than anything, the reason I withdrew from you was because you were nagging me all time (I was nagging him about not spending time with me). Blah Blah Blah. He then hangs up and tells me he loves me. I thought, what happened to the comment about "call me when your ready for a relationship."
Later this morning, I text him and told him again, that I needed space so he needed to quit calling me. He came back with, "I want my ring, and your stuff out of my barn." He got so upset again. After numerous text messages back and forth and me sticking to my guns, he now is saying he loves me more than anything and will do whatever it takes to keep this relationship in tact and he is willing to give me my space. I came back with - well, time will tell. He hasn't text or called me in the last hour and a half. Is this typical of the NPD?
I am just so confused and still having a lot of difficulty especially now, because he is ACTING as if he will honor my wishes. One good thing, I am leaving today for the coast to work undercover over the weekend. I am going to enjoy my time away, the beach, my job, etc.
Thanks for everyone's help,
Elaine
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Hi Elaine,
You wrote:
I am just so confused and still having a lot of difficulty especially now, because he is ACTING as if he will honor my wishes.
Maybe it would help to discard the first part there and keep this, which you have noted, clearly at the front of your mind:
he is ACTING as if he will honor my wishes.
Yep. He is. A big drama production all for your entertainment. A show. It's not real. It's theatrical and creative and who knows? Maybe even fun? (for him).
Enjoy your w/e away! Honor yourself.
Sela
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Boy howdy, do I ((((((((RELATE))))))))!!!!!!!
I may have unconsciencely choose not to see and understand, but he did nothave the right to wrong me the way he did. I was not and is not okay for how we have allowed our self to be treated and our love to be totally betrayed and abused by the one we have given it to.
Nogadge
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Elaine,
He will pull every trick in the book to get you back and if he does get you back it will be the same old story.........only worse. I am glad you are going away for a while. I suggest you do not respond to texts calls etc..........what helped me most of all was No Contact. IT was difficult but I was so exhausted from listening to the same old Bull over and over again that my brain was scrambled. I needed to stop contact to see where I was and plan for MY life.
axa
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Axa is right, it will get worse after the hooneymoon period. I have had to cut off all interpersonal contact except via emailings with my van ex. They don't want to put things in writting because then what they can be held accountable, it is staring back at them in their face, and it is proof of what they are really doing. They do not want to see or leave evidence of their actions, so using emailings( I had to have local police dv advocate reinforce this) insulates me from the internal uphevial within myself brought by the action/words of my ex. It still hurts so bad, and the pain is deep, but it is not continuing to come at me layer upon layer, smothering me and keeeping me from finding those growing moments of quiet calmness that help to stop the turmoil. Have faith in yourself to do what you know from inside you. You have the strength when you remember all the good in yourself, that has always been there. It's kind of like a friend you haven't seen for a while, and you have to rebuild your relationship and the closeness you have lost sight of over time. You really missed them while they were on an extended vacation, but the more you see them, the more you realised how much you liked them, who they are and how much you've missed having them in your life. The difference is that, instead of a friend being on vacation, it is us, we are the ones we have missed while we have been in a prison of our own doings.
And that's okay, yeah I can accept and say this after 30+ years of being there. Hopefully you aren't that long.
nogadge
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Honey-if it is to be it will be. You do not have to re bullied into making a decision today. Time away will make you think AND him think. I have gotten to the point where I really do not care if he leaves and it is funny-the minute I do not care was the minute he lost the upper hand and he acts better than he did.
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Well, I left Friday for the coast to work that job. Remember, he said he would do anything to keep our relationship together and if that means give me space then he would do it. Well, last night he and my 15 year old daughter spoke on the phone while we were eating dinner. He was asking her how she was liking it down on the coast (I think he did not believe I was going down there to work and was drilling my daughter, whom I took with me. I don't even know if he believed me, when I initially told him I was taking her with me, so he could've been confirming that.) Then this morning at 7:30 am, he wakes me up by calling. I did not answer, he leaves me a message asking if I was "sleeping" with my client? He stated that he heard all kinds of things and that possibly we were seeing each other. WELL THAT IS CRAP AS I HAVE BEEN TOTALLY FAITHFUL TO THAT MAN AND STILL FAITHFUL. Anyways, I call him back (probably a mistake) and asked him what the heck he was talking about??? He proceeds to tell me. I again confirm that I am not seeing anyone! He then asks me if I am going on a trip (remember over spring break I am heading to the Dominican Republic) well, I had not told him this yet. So, I find out that he had been in my email (he has always had the password, I just forgot about it). He saw my itinerary for my trip. I told him yes, I was. He then drills me about am I going to meet someone, I again tell him NO, I am going by myself. Once we get all this past us, he then says, well I am sorry for invading your space but I just needed to know answers. We then hang up and of course he says, "love you."
Later in the morning, he text me and asking about the Harley Davidson I liked. (He has always known I wanted a Harley very badly). I didn't know why but I later found out thru my daughter that he went and applied for a loan for a Harley Davidson. I am always told that he has no money and that is why he and I can never do anything together. I thought where did that come from???? Then my daughter asks him if she could spend spring break with him, I thought I was going to ring her neck as I can't seem to make her understand what I am trying to do. He says yes, and now he is planning on taking his boys along with my daughter over spring break. CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT? What is he up to?? Now, here I am feeling bad about leaving for the Dominican Republic to get my head on straight as he is the "great father" and plans a trip with the kids, including mine. HE HAS NEVER DONE THIS IN THE PAST. I was the one who planned all the trips and most of the time, PAID FOR THEM AS WELL.
I just don't get what he is up too. I wonder if in his mind, he thinks he is really doing a great thing. But in the meantime, I feel like a bad, selfish parent. Maybe he is thinking he will start proving to me that he can be a better parent, spending time with them etc. I just don't know, I am trying to make sense of all of this.
OH, one more thing.....he asked me about counseling. He stated that he wants to start seeing a therapist as he has issues that he knows he needs help with. I about fell out today when he said that. He stated that on two occasions recently he has woke up from his sleep crying. He said he is "balling like a baby" but doesn't understand why. He just wakes up like that from his sleep. He doesn't remember dreaming. He is now wondering what is wrong with him and SAYS he really want to do that counseling.
So, now that I have filled everyone in........I need help figuring out this man and what he is up to.
I am so confused and emotionally distraught, I can't stand it!
Elaine
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This is the emotional roller coaster ride you will be on until you force the space. If he is serious about counseling than watch him prove it to you. It might be a ploy to win you back before you leave-thereby not giving you a chance to see If he is sincere.
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Thanks Kelly for your post. I am having another bad day, everything from the weekend just messed with my head. I hate this feeling!
Elaine
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Elaine...
I just don't get what he is up too.
Yes, you do. Deep inside, you know exactly what he's up to.
He's manipulating you to try to get you back.
And he's invaded your privacy and manipulated your child while he's at it.
I suppose an invasive, manipulative Narcissist could be fun...
but. I think NO CONTACT would help you decide.
Decide for yourself. And for her.
The future is a long long time and your daughter
doesn't deserve an invasive, entitled, maniupulative, stepfather.
I did that to my child and will always, always regret it.
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I know tha feeling of confusion so well, is it a state to keep you in so you don't have time to really thing about what you want? I was fortunate/or unfortunate whichever way you look at it, my N went totally nc with me. At first I just wanted to hear his voice, talk to him, whatever it took.
Honestly just from the way he is acting now, do you think he would honor any of the promises to change? It doesn't sound that way. Counseling would be great, but let him make the first move and start dealing with it at least then you would know he is sericous.
Six months later, I am better but still have moments that I miss what I thought it was.....! NC really is the only way to be objective. I had to have it beaten (not really) into my head before I got it. The moment there was any contact, the attack came out again.
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Thanks Hopalong and alone48, I know you are right. I just miss him so much. I miss the fun we have had, I miss his touch, etc.. I sit here today and it is taking every ounce of strength I have to not call him or text him. I keep trying to remember/think of all the negative things to keep me grounded. Having him communicating with my daughter and then she "feels bad" for him, just kills me. She doesn't want me to think she is "taking sides" but she has forgotten all the crap that we lived with while we were living together. She is only focusing on how he has been since we split houses. Their relationship has gotten better, but again, we don't live under the same roof. It was a nightmare at one time and she had a lot of hate and anger towards him back then, only 6 months ago. She just keeps telling me that he is the closest thing to a "father" she has. Her father lives in another state and she does not think highly of him. This confusion is almost unbearable at times. Like you said, I need to see if he takes that first step and means what he says.
Thanks again,
Elaine
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I also weakened at Xmas and texted N he chose to ignore me, but told everyone else how pitiful I was. Whenever I get weak now, I remember that I was only feeding into the Nism. Children are you resilient and tend to forget the bad. I too felt somewhat betrayed that my son wasn't as hurt as I, but only briefly until I realized he was much healthier for it.