Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Cj on July 24, 2004, 11:34:40 AM
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You are not silly, CJ.
That was directed at those who you feel are responsible for your upset.
You are carrying a lot of pain and you were treated so unfairly.
I'm sure I don't know much at all but I know this:
Get rid of it and joy will come into your life.
Boil over on this board, that's what it's for.
To be honest, sometimes I'm really afraid of my own anger. That's not such good thing and I'm working on it, on paper, which I have plenty of creative ways of destroying, after they are covered in ink. Another technique is spewing for 1 minute, then considering the good, and writing about it for 5.
These are healthy outlets and will help us heal.
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Cj -
I'm so sorry that your mother taught you such horrible lessons as a child. I'm sorry that you are full of those feelings of inferiority, responsibility, fear, criticism, etc that really do eat the "real" you - deep inside - away to a small, invisible person. I wish that you could have received unconditional love as a child and felt really important and worthy of the love you received. I often daydream and make up stories about me as a child living in a "healthy" home where I was doted over and loved way too much.
I am very proud of you - wow, what a huge step in writing those feelings out. **********fireworks***************** yeah for you! You are very angry and - in my experience at least - my therapist told me to do exactly what you just did - write all of that horrible, choking, strangling, holding you down anger out for the world to see. Sharing it is totally optional, but it really validates and confirms that it was REAL!!!!! You are not the crazy one - these things happened to you!!!!! I felt totally liberated at that realization - like a chain had been taken off of me. There are tons more, but one less felt a little lighter. :wink:
Hugs to you. I hope you have someone close to you who can give you a nice long, much needed physical hug. You don't even have to explain yourself. Sometimes I tell my friend Jill - hug time. And she just hugs me really tight and softly until I tell her to let go. Sometimes its a long time. Hug yourself for me. I would love to hear more from you when your ready.
Love,
Michelle
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Cj,
You don't sound confused anymore. :D
Your family really did a number on you. I think you're going to make it, though.
bunny
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CJ,
I knew you were in there!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Man, do you sound different. Keep connecting the dots. Yea!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MM
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A much needed and appropriate outburst CJ and I applaud you for it!
I'm happy you allowed yourself that!
Nic :)
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:D Cj!! Hug for (((((((((Cj)))))))))
Hey…what can I say, they’ve said it all above and I agree. But I have a question: I just tried to find your post to me about that gal (that lunatic) you lived with for a while. I can’t find it. :oops: Didn’t she go off with the bloke she said had raped her? Reminded me of a school friend who married the bloke she said had raped her. Her Dad felt me up too – you can see where the story goes from there. Sad lady – but a lunatic to be around. Anyways, I was going to reply but what with one thing and another, I’ve lost it. Did ya want a reply or were you just chatting? The reply was – she sounded deeply disturbed. Oh yeah, and her accusing your mother of ‘brainwashing’ you and vice–versa (it’s coming back to me now) - what a mind-f*ck for you! Did they do this in your presence? Trying to cover up my tardiness in replying, P Yay Cj!
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...that would've been Portia in deep disguise, sorry :roll: P
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CJ,
Yes, yes...you needed that! Thank you for letting go here at the board. Very freeing to read as well as to write (I imagine). How do you feel?
with love,
Learning
P.S. I'll stick around if you will :wink:
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Hi :). I'd just like to say thanks for all the replies.
Yes, I did feel better afterwards, and for sometime after. I can't help but draw a correlation. I felt a little more at ease with myself, and a little less anxious/self conscious in general. I say 'a little', but its a start. I guess you could say more accepting of me. :). I feel hopeful about this, and see a little er...hope :) . Like I had a little bit of 'growth' inside. Also, I feel more positive about setting boundaries with people, or a 'little' more able to. Actually I'd go as far to say, a 'desire' to. Its all kinda new to me. Oh, I'm not sure what i'm trying to say. I'll stop rambling for now.
Oh yeah, and I intend to hang around. :) (((Hugs)))
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Hiya Cj. I’m glad you’re here. :D
Oh, I'm not sure what i'm trying to say.
Yes you are? You said it, or that's how it sounded to me. It sounded all clear and positive. Yes, really! :D
I'll stop rambling for now.
Only if you want to stop. And that's not much of a ramble anyway. A fairly concise update more like.
I intend to hang around.
:D Still on a public one or do you have better access now? I hope it's the latter, good to see you, P
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No text.
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Cj,
Oh dear! Where did you go. Please don't let the stalker in the ramble thread push you away. I think it was just a typo. Are you ok?
Lisa
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No worries :). I was going to post, but don't really feel up to it atm, thats all.
Back soon (hopefully, and posting)
Cj
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Ok, I'm back, for the moment. What a weird time its been recently.
Having, (and allowing, no less!) my boundaries to be broken big time by someone. (What a reality check *that* was!)
Sometimes I think it's like I've been like a vacum in some ways, over the years.... ''Take my life, in bits and pieces. Its yours to have, anyone, take it. Chip away at as many little fucking pieces as you want. I don't mind being eaten away at. Maybe I already am....'' (eaten away at). Although obviously I didn't see it that way. I'm seeing it that way now.
I often wonder if I have boundaries, more like I'm desperately trying to build them, and build myself back from nothing, (or very little...)
Enough about that, for now.
The other day, I was in the toilet, late at night. My Grandfather was still up watching television, and seemingly desperate to get in, after I'd been in a bit.
'*****, can I get into the toilet?' came the voice from outside the door, not in an annoyed/pissed off manner, by any means, but it made me uncharacteristically angry.
Usually my response would have been....'Oh..er...yeah, just be a minute', after quickly finishing what I was doing, and not even thinking.
But the words slipped out of my mouth, automatically, like the most natural (albeit what seemed (pleasantly) 'unusual') thing....
'Yeh!!! Can you just wait a minute????' (Clearly annoyed, and not giving a shit)
Something about it, (and I have been trying real hard to think a way to put this, but it always escapes me) pissed me off. (As always, I'll probably go on to define it clearly, despite that statement :) ).
Lack of regard/respect.
The way it was said, or happened, made me feel like 'I' was not actually in the toilet. Like 'I' wasn't actually in the bathroom, using it !
(Like the time he drunkenly asked me if my dinner was coming along fine in the oven, to which I replied 'er..yeh, thanks', only to find half of it missing when I went to take it out.)
And it occurred to me....Had it been my mother in the bathroom, not a word would have been said. He would have pissed himself, (well not really, more like gone elsewhere, with a bottle handy). Because I see now...I have obviously taken on a role of not being taken too seriously. It makes sense when I realise how I've been within 'the family' at times.
Its quite unreal, how much my grandfather can allow my mother to rule the roost. Its so very sad, too. And yet, paradoxically.....I can recal my mother, even into her recent years, going on dates, and having to ask her boyfriend to pick her up round the corner, out of sight of the house, fearing diasapproval of her boyfriends, or like she was being a naughty teenager or something. Insane.
Memory: My mother arguing in the kitchen with him, and his 'concerns' about me, when out and about as a kid.
'What???? What am I supposed to do??? Do you expect me to keep him indoors 24/7 like you did with me???
(later, my mother would deny ever saying such a thing to him, in my presence, when it was brought up by me in an argument. Not unusually.)
I have the feeling it's because he has to depend on her. Sometimes I wonder if theres some sort of struggle going on there, whereby both act in accordance with keeping things in place. My grandfather needs my mother, but doesn't need her. He has just allowed himself to be looked after. My mother couldn't live without him, because she'd be constantly worrying about him, (if he did live alone, man, would he drink, I reckon, (compared to how he does now, which is somewhat moderate, for someone who drinks a lot (?))).
Its nuts, and I can't fathom what's at play. Does it matter? I'm not totally sure.
But my mother in her chaotic state had enough to worry about bringing me up, and it should possibly piss me off a tad, when I think of the fact she was, in a sense, looking after two children, at times. Maybe I should have had more of the attention?
Sure he worked hard. But why was his daughter making dinner for him every day, playing housekeeper? And making his lunch, collecting his prescriptions, clearing up after him? My family was always tightly nit. I.e. different generations living together.
What should have happened is....my mother should have got a place of her own. (So the baby wouldn't drive daddy nuts with its screaming and shouting when he was trying to sleep, *ahem* seemingly all the time, unless he was working.)
Daddy would have, in good will, supported his daughter, (if he wasn't spending the money on beer). Ah hell, maybe he didn't get paid much.
But surelly any mother can get a house of her own with a kid. Where we really that poor???
Another memory: Its a thursday night, and they are arguing again. Because he's been paid, and came home via the pub, of course, (and in these days, can barely stand, by the time closing time comes).
'Well!' (my mother shouts) 'If your not happy (with what I'm not sure, probably my mothers ragging on him), then find us a house! You, find us a house, tomorrow then!
What was stopping her finding a house?
And it got me to thinking, what the fuck is going on there???
Another memory. I was wearing a cross. I was a teenager. Not religious, just jewelery, y'know? I was sitting in the living room. And all of a sudden, my grandfather exclaims, angrily, out of the blue... ''Whats that???? I hope thats not...blah blah blah'' (I forget the exact words, but he clearly didn't approve of it, if it was religious. Come to think of it, I think he thought it suggested catholic leanings or something, 'the family' being protestant, and all (although never doing much to actually back up having these leanings)), although it was just a heavy metal sorta cross with bands round it and all....
My mother sat there. Saying fuck all. Do I see something wrong with this picture? I was upset. It must have shown in my face. Its funny really. Father and daughter shouldn't be that close. But then again, I doubt they even ARE. Its more likelly to do with the fucked up scenario, that has transpired and dependancy issues. But her just fucking sitting there, allowing that, and he shouldn't even be fucking THERE in the first place.
I spoke to my mother about my dad yesterday. YAY!!!!!!
I was really angry, and thankfully as result, free of anxiety (boy I must have been pissed off!).
I'd been drawing, and as always, fucking NOTHING was working out right, so I asked her if he was artistic. And you know what? After that one question, it came natural to ask more, because I didn't care. I had every right to be asking these things, without concern about how it might make her feel, without feeling uneasy. Without feeling I was in the fucking wrong.
Naturally, after her replies, came the much expected 'Why?'.
Why did she ask that? I have no idea. One of two things possibly... *Paranoia (''Oh no! ***** hates me. I'm an awful person. What have I done wrong?'') *Or....theres things she doesn't want to tell me. Time will tell. And, if there are things she doesn't want to tell me, which she wants to hide, things which I would hate her for (I'm saying only if mind)....then I certainly hope she is worried at my newly found interest.
*Oh, it could also be because ''we wouldn't want to hurt ***** would we, by telling him things that might hurt him?'', so that could be another reason, but I think that'd be bullshit, and not a real reason, more or less....
Anyway, slight update and ramblings.
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Hiya Cj, :D it’s very good to see and read your post above. It sounds like you’re doing so well! I’m glad, I really am. :D
Can I tell you how the ‘triangulating’ happened in our house? Mother made sure she was always the victim and in a way, I think that meant she was mostly in control. Although she would tell you that my step-dad was totally in control of her. And mostly I believed that. I’ve only just worked out how this might have been how things really were in our house, and I don’t know if it’s true. I guess I can only find a way to explain why I felt like I did. And to know it wasn’t my fault. Until now I sort of did believe it was my fault. I hope you don’t mind me rambling here. :? I’ll take a chance and ramble anyway. :D
How did she get to be the victim? To explain her ‘depressions’ to step-dad, she would say it was my fault, that she was worried by me, upset with me, whatever. But not unkindly, she’d do it out of ‘love’ for me no doubt, in her mind. So step-dad would blame me for her state of mind. She would take me aside and tell me how they argued about me, about how to raise me, rules and so on, about how step-dad wanted to be more disciplined but she ‘stuck up’ for me, she wanted me to have freedom (the freedom she didn’t have with him? Who knows).
So to me, she was the good guy and step-dad was the bad guy. On the surface. But kids know when something isn’t true don’t they? It didn’t feel like she gave a toss about me and her actions didn’t show that she cared. But then she also let me know how depressed she was, how step-dad controlled her, so I guess I had to sympathise, empathise even, share her emotional problems. Then whenever I tried to ask for something for myself, like why aren’t we ‘normal’, why don’t we do things like other families (like have holidays, go for picnics, go for drives, whatever) I was told by him I was trying to upset her; and she would tell me I was trying to get between them. What can a kid do? It wasn’t my fault. It wasn’t your fault either. :( If babies cry, it’s because they need something. They can’t help it, it’s natural, normal. I get told I cried a lot too. Like it was my fault, like I chose to cry. What nonsense eh? :x
I was lucky, I also saw my real dad. She was also a victim there: she made him out to be another scourge of her life. Maybe he was, but she didn’t have to say unkind things about him to me.
I wasn’t respected at home either. I was like a lodger. As for your mother getting a place of her own when you were a baby, you could ask her why she didn’t. It could be money reasons. About you wearing a cross (I used to do that too, as fashion): why didn’t your mother get involved in the conversation (confrontation)? I don’t know. :? But it must have felt horrible to you, perhaps like she was either siding with him, or just ignoring the whole thing, like you didn’t matter? And you do matter. Can I tell you that? You matter as much as anyone else. :D
CJ when you said about your granddad depending on your mother and yet not, I thought how confusing and frustrating this could be. I was constantly asking myself, why does she stay with him? Does it matter to me now? It matters to me because I’m trying to work out where I fitted in to the weird, sad family dynamics and how that has affected me, in what I do today, even though I haven’t lived with them for many years. I was blamed, shamed and used by my mother. I wasn’t allowed to be a child. I wasn’t allowed to be a separate person. Even now she acts as though we have some special connection. And frankly, if we do, it’s some basic biological thing. It’s not out of thoughtful, considerate human love. It’s not her fault either. But that doesn’t lessen the impact it had on me.
When your mother asked ‘why?’ after your questioning, what did you say? And *how* did she ask you ‘why’. Maybe she was just curious as to why you were asking: maybe there was no ulterior motive, she might have just been interested in you, yes you, :D for a change? I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But I wondered if maybe this was just an innocent question. I know I’ve been so screwed up that I see ‘motives’ everywhere sometimes, even ‘do you want a cup of tea?’ can seem demanding or something. :roll: Sad I know.
I don’t know if any of my thoughts help you CJ. I wanted to reply because so many of the feelings and experiences in your post are similar to mine and I wanted you to know you’re not alone by any means. love, P
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Thanks for the reply Portia. I'll get a proper reply up soon, after I've had a proper read.
Cj :)
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Hi Portia,
Thanks for the reply, and sorry I took so long replying. Wow, that certainly sounds like a complex affair. Very confusing. I still feel quite early on in working the 'dynamics' out in my situation, I mean its only recently I've even started thinking about them.
One thing I was thinking about though is the step dad thing, I know it doesn't really address directly what your talking about here (maybe it does), but I never had a step-dad. I sometimes wonder how it would have been if I had. I always remember my mother telling me when I was playing up/misbehaving 'You wouldn't be so out of line if someone like (enter her current boyfriend) was around, thats for sure!' (Unfortunately her current boyfriend was married and it was never gonna happen (but thats another story...)). The idea in itself of having a step dad stepin sounds a bit screwed, especially if you don't get on with them and/or this person with no real connection is raising you (anyway they see fit), but its kinda accepted and so common isn't it? Sorry I'm stating the obvious here. How did you get on with him?
You said kids know when somethings not right. Did you know something wasn't right at that time? Or did it occur later. True kids know, but I guess they also learn to 'not know' or supress things?
I don't feel I'm at a stage where I can ask the things you mention, about the past, like why we lived in that situation, despite my 'progress'. You see to my mother questions like those, have always been viewed as 'a threat' I think, or thats how she takes them. To be honest those things are more likely to come out in anger these days lol, but at least I'll feel more focus, calm and justified. Maybe.
I thought about asking my mother why she didn't want thing to 'work out' between her and my dad. (She told me a story about how he came to the hospital, and 'wanted things to work out 'we can make it work etc', but she 'wasn't having it' and said 'no'') Sometimes I wonder what the fuck was so bad about this man, (I really don't think there was) and how much influence my grandfather/family had on this.
But you know what, it angered me, its making me feel blocked, because I know if I did ask my mother she would deny telling me that (above) when I was a child. And that fills me with fucking frustration when she does that. I'd just feel my head being stretched in two again in that case, and feel she was tearing me apart. Truth/Untruth. Being able to stick to my guns, and not doubt what I heard (which I guess is what is at play). Crazy making indeed. So, no, I won't be bringing that up for a while, 'till I can deal with it better, and have more strength.
Yes, I know what you mean about seeing motives behind everything:S, coming and going with people. I would say her reaction was puzzled/wary/quiet surprise. But they very why is annoying in itself I feel. She would always say that sort of 'whats brought that on?' (me wanting to know). And to me that says 'Everythings fine as it is (to her) no need to talk about this/that'. As if wanting to know is an inconvenience, but maybe thats me seeing motives...
Cj xx
Hiya Cj, :D it’s very good to see and read your post above. It sounds like you’re doing so well! I’m glad, I really am. :D
Can I tell you how the ‘triangulating’ happened in our house? Mother made sure she was always the victim and in a way, I think that meant she was mostly in control. Although she would tell you that my step-dad was totally in control of her. And mostly I believed that. I’ve only just worked out how this might have been how things really were in our house, and I don’t know if it’s true. I guess I can only find a way to explain why I felt like I did. And to know it wasn’t my fault. Until now I sort of did believe it was my fault. I hope you don’t mind me rambling here. :? I’ll take a chance and ramble anyway. :D
How did she get to be the victim? To explain her ‘depressions’ to step-dad, she would say it was my fault, that she was worried by me, upset with me, whatever. But not unkindly, she’d do it out of ‘love’ for me no doubt, in her mind. So step-dad would blame me for her state of mind. She would take me aside and tell me how they argued about me, about how to raise me, rules and so on, about how step-dad wanted to be more disciplined but she ‘stuck up’ for me, she wanted me to have freedom (the freedom she didn’t have with him? Who knows).
So to me, she was the good guy and step-dad was the bad guy. On the surface. But kids know when something isn’t true don’t they? It didn’t feel like she gave a toss about me and her actions didn’t show that she cared. But then she also let me know how depressed she was, how step-dad controlled her, so I guess I had to sympathise, empathise even, share her emotional problems. Then whenever I tried to ask for something for myself, like why aren’t we ‘normal’, why don’t we do things like other families (like have holidays, go for picnics, go for drives, whatever) I was told by him I was trying to upset her; and she would tell me I was trying to get between them. What can a kid do? It wasn’t my fault. It wasn’t your fault either. :( If babies cry, it’s because they need something. They can’t help it, it’s natural, normal. I get told I cried a lot too. Like it was my fault, like I chose to cry. What nonsense eh? :x
I was lucky, I also saw my real dad. She was also a victim there: she made him out to be another scourge of her life. Maybe he was, but she didn’t have to say unkind things about him to me.
I wasn’t respected at home either. I was like a lodger. As for your mother getting a place of her own when you were a baby, you could ask her why she didn’t. It could be money reasons. About you wearing a cross (I used to do that too, as fashion): why didn’t your mother get involved in the conversation (confrontation)? I don’t know. :? But it must have felt horrible to you, perhaps like she was either siding with him, or just ignoring the whole thing, like you didn’t matter? And you do matter. Can I tell you that? You matter as much as anyone else. :D
CJ when you said about your granddad depending on your mother and yet not, I thought how confusing and frustrating this could be. I was constantly asking myself, why does she stay with him? Does it matter to me now? It matters to me because I’m trying to work out where I fitted in to the weird, sad family dynamics and how that has affected me, in what I do today, even though I haven’t lived with them for many years. I was blamed, shamed and used by my mother. I wasn’t allowed to be a child. I wasn’t allowed to be a separate person. Even now she acts as though we have some special connection. And frankly, if we do, it’s some basic biological thing. It’s not out of thoughtful, considerate human love. It’s not her fault either. But that doesn’t lessen the impact it had on me.
When your mother asked ‘why?’ after your questioning, what did you say? And *how* did she ask you ‘why’. Maybe she was just curious as to why you were asking: maybe there was no ulterior motive, she might have just been interested in you, yes you, :D for a change? I don’t know, I wasn’t there. But I wondered if maybe this was just an innocent question. I know I’ve been so screwed up that I see ‘motives’ everywhere sometimes, even ‘do you want a cup of tea?’ can seem demanding or something. :roll: Sad I know.
I don’t know if any of my thoughts help you CJ. I wanted to reply because so many of the feelings and experiences in your post are similar to mine and I wanted you to know you’re not alone by any means. love, P
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CJ I was just about to go and I saw your post above, so a quick reply from me, I'll come back and read again though:
I got on sometimes with step-dad but he was a control-freak. Not good. And yes, having an outsider move in to the father role was crap (note! when that person is without any love or compassion etc. Some stepdads are great, but not mine), it doesn't work. He already had children of his own too (they stayed with their mother). Gave them as much love and attention as he gave me (sad for them). Yeah, it wasn't good for me.
She would always say that sort of 'whats brought that on?' (me wanting to know). And to me that says 'Everythings fine as it is (to her) no need to talk about this/that'. As if wanting to know is an inconvenience,
Oh I recognise this! Yep, it's like: what's wrong with you, asking questions? Why do you want to know? (The sub-text being: you're wrong/bad/stupid/different/annoying/etc). And we were both just ordinary, curious children. That's what children do - ask lots of questions! That's what can make us lose our voices, being 'told' asking questions is wrong. So selfish of them. Heck I understand CJ, now I know why her "why?" would have got to you. The answer, if I ever had the courage to use it, might be "WHY NOT?" :D (((CJ))) bye for now, P
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Hiya CJ, a few more thoughts.
'You wouldn't be so out of line if someone like (enter her current boyfriend) was around, thats for sure!'
It’s classic how she totally refuses to take any responsibility herself. The answer in my mind to her comment above is “presumably that’s because he would take an interest in the person I am and encourage me to be the person that I want to be?” ha ha ha! I know that’s not what she meant. But in saying that above, she washes her hands of you doesn’t she? Doesn’t think she has any responsibility for the way you are. Or maybe she does and this is her way of shifting the shame/blame. It seems to me that she is a typical ‘all men are to blame’ woman, seriously unhappy. :( Sorry CJ.
She told me a story about how he came to the hospital, and 'wanted things to work out 'we can make it work etc', but she 'wasn't having it' and said 'no'')
Yeah, one day maybe you will ask why not. But you’ll need to be so strong and calm! Because I guess she won’t want to tell you the whole story. And to get to her version of what happened, I’d guess you’d need to keep asking questions, relentlessly, even if she became upset, angry etc. Could you do that and keep calm, keep prodding away for her version of reality? It is tough. I’ve only scratched the surface. However, when I have asked what I have thought are upsetting questions, I’ve been amazed to find that she doesn’t get upset at all! Especially if I make it clear that I want to know for curiosity’s sake, and not to blame her, or blame anyone, just to know what happened. Tricky though.
'whats brought that on?'
I just want to come back to this phrase. I was subjected to exactly the same question! I asked my H if he’s ever heard it – no. It’s so aggressive but passive too. So accusing, as if asking a question is like an illness. And also, it implies that we can’t think for ourselves! :x It’s like saying: who’s given you that idea? (because we can’t possibly have our own ideas can we?). It’s a very nasty little phrase. I want to answer: “my brain brought it on. I can think. Surprise, :D surprise!”. Ahhhhhh. I guess the phrase is indicative of their fear – attack being the best form of defence and so on. Sad eh? Thanks for reminding me of this belittling and crazy-making phrase. I feel like I’ve exorcised it now! :D (((CJ))) P
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Thank you for your reply Portia.
I asked my mother about my dad tonight as a matter of fact (date of my last post). I was interested in her reponse (regarding my question as to whether he had ever made any attempt to see me (which I asked)). She replied he hadn't, not once, and ' I would have told you if he had tried to see you. God, I wouldn't keep something like that from you *****'.
Now, maybe I'm searching for hidden meanings or being super wary, but a way of interpreting that is that is its saying 'it is however, ok (for me) to keep some things from you. Does that sound paranoid? Not really...
When I brought up the fact she told me as a kid that 'he wanted it to work' and asked why it didn't, she told me thats 'not what (she) meant.' :roll: , and that 'he wasn't commited, nor wanted to be tied down'. If she made that decision herself, she could at least have the balls to say. He still only stayed ten minutes away, so to go from that, to never wanting to see me seems contradictory. One minute he 'wanted it to work', the next 'he wanted to at least see you at the hospital'. I'll get to the bottom of it eventually. Whether it really matters NOW (or really ever did) is irrelevant. Knowing I am getting closer to being able to take things up with her, and stand my ground, is whats important. :)
Anyway, I'll get back to this when I have more time. :)
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Hiya CJ, you sound pretty cool to me. :D Hey,
God, I wouldn't keep something like that from you
Maybe it’s genuine. Maybe it’s about what she thinks you might think of her? (“How could you think I would keep something like that from you? I’m not that bad a person. Do you think I would be that ‘bad’ to you?”) Either way, she has some morality doesn’t she? And the whole exchange sounds like a reasonable, adult conversation. Way to go CJ, I’m a little envious!
Whether it really matters NOW (or really ever did) is irrelevant.
Well, we do have a need to know our roots. I wonder if somehow she’s ashamed of something between her and him. I don’t know. It’s about their relationship. She’s hiding something, maybe from herself. It’s her stuff though.
Knowing I am getting closer to being able to take things up with her, and stand my ground, is whats important.
Oh you touched my nerve there! I’m still scared. Scared of ‘hurting’ her and therefore myself. I’ve stopped communicating with mine, and I don’t know if it’s the answer for me. Maybe I’ll get strong enough to stand my ground. Maybe there’s no point (for her....but for me?) in doing that with mine. Work in progress.
Very good to hear how you’re doing CJ. Thought-provoking too... Thank you for your post. Best wishes P
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Hi Portia, hope your doing ok.
I think its more how she feels about herself probably, and in turn *thinks* I feel about her. True, lack of communication is probably my failing equally, or not wanting to, as well. Maybe I need to start doing so, maybe I'll even want to as time goes on.
We actually get on on not bad atm, but that doesn't mean were actually *close* if you get my drift. And I still haven't fully digested my past, and feelings towards her in that respect. Nowhere near it.
You mentioned being 'used' by your mother, and that got me thinking about whether I was 'used'. At times I'd be company for her. I sometimes think I took the place of a surrogate friend a lot of the time. I remember one time I was around 19 and we went to the cinema, or she'd want to meet me for pizza ever thursday after I'd finished work. I just clicked that this only happened for around a year or so. I'm now thinking 'why then?'. I mean there was no sudden 'drifting apart' (because it was questionable whether we were that 'close' anyway, aside from her unspoken conviction/ 'this is how it is' of 'we're close, aren't we son?'. You know the one.... When I was a kid also maybe.
So I'm thinking convenience.
I mean jesus.....I LIVED with the woman lol, it's not like I get a call for her: 'hey son, we don't see each other much atm, fancy meeting up for lunch, catch up?' you know?. I mean, what ****ing 19 yr old guy goes to the cinema with his mother on a thursday night, y'know? LOL. I just went along with it. Probably scared of saying no. (Scared of hurting her). I mean I don't think any of it was her being interested in me as a person,(maybe not even at all), anything past that sort of act. When I think about it, its amazing how little interest she actually showed. And I didn't even realise....
A lot or most of her 'real' friendships always went wrong. I remember one time when I was a little younger I said to her I was unhappy (didn't say I was, because of course I wasn't really good at 'I' s, and expressing 'my' feelings, which were vague, even in the capacity they were felt) because I didn't have many friends, causing her to march (away, a common tactic when she wants to avoid something) up the stairs in anger asking 'Am I not your friend????'. Yeh, not healthy....
I am still uneasy. Its strange and new talking to her as-an actual-person, and realising how awkward it is. Still learning. I spoke to her the other day like an actual person, and it left her uneasy, I could sense her awkwarness. But I can't tell yet whats at play. Is she just not interested at me when I'm being a person, and have more of a sense of myself, or does it make her uncomfortable, and thus I should be compassionate, if anything? Maybe she was just shocked. I often wonder if me 'becoming' will make her re-evaluate herself., which she obviously hasn't had to do, me being the way I've always been, (and rather conveniently to (?)).
I'm kinda rabbiting, and this is all about me, :S, but wanted to get back to the board before I drift away again for a year.
Best wishes Cj :)
Hiya CJ, you sound pretty cool to me. Hey,
God, I wouldn't keep something like that from you
Maybe it’s genuine. Maybe it’s about what she thinks you might think of her? (“How could you think I would keep something like that from you? I’m not that bad a person. Do you think I would be that ‘bad’ to you?”) Either way, she has some morality doesn’t she? And the whole exchange sounds like a reasonable, adult conversation. Way to go CJ, I’m a little envious!
Whether it really matters NOW (or really ever did) is irrelevant.
Well, we do have a need to know our roots. I wonder if somehow she’s ashamed of something between her and him. I don’t know. It’s about their relationship. She’s hiding something, maybe from herself. It’s her stuff though.
Knowing I am getting closer to being able to take things up with her, and stand my ground, is whats important.
Oh you touched my nerve there! I’m still scared. Scared of ‘hurting’ her and therefore myself. I’ve stopped communicating with mine, and I don’t know if it’s the answer for me. Maybe I’ll get strong enough to stand my ground. Maybe there’s no point (for her....but for me?) in doing that with mine. Work in progress.
Very good to hear how you’re doing CJ. Thought-provoking too... Thank you for your post. Best wishes P