Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Dr. Richard Grossman on March 03, 2008, 04:58:30 PM
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Imagine the following scenario:
You are in a motor boat on the ocean, alone with your narcissistic parent. You are 8 years old and your parent is 40. Suddenly, there is an small explosion in the boat. No one is injured, but it is clear that the boat will sink. There are no lifejackets, but there is a lifeboat. Unfortunately, the lifeboat will hold only one person. (If 2 people try to get in or hold on it will sink). Therefore, it is obvious that only one person will survive. What would your parent do?
Best,
Richard
p.s. Of course comments are welcome! But please vote before you read people's comments! Also, please vote before you check the results of the poll!
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I cannot participate in the poll on my phone but just the thought of this makes me want to cry because my gut is she would take the boat. She may even drown me to put me out of my misery.
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It was not easy to choose just one option because I kept thinking about my mom and her mood swings. I could picture my mom doing each option all contingent on her mood on that particular day.
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This is a real poser, because in fact my dad did stay as our parent though our mom was schizophrenic - he could have abandoned us then and justified it. I've often wondered about that and for many moons it was a justification for me staying in a state of idolization and denial about many other things.
But based on how things went after my mom was out of the daily picture, I'm pretty sure that my dad would not allow me to get into the lifeboat and would not get into the lifeboat himself either. We would both go down with the ship and the lifeboat would bob away, empty.
I would have to stay to prove my loyalty. He would accuse me of betraying him anyway. It's also possible that he created the conditions for the explosion ahead of time.
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I am going to have a strange answer. My M might save me. I see that she loves me, BUT she must always protect her image of herself, at all costs,even to my destruction, emotionally.However,she just might save me,physically. I like to hope so--(lol) Ami
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I think she'd find a way to split the boat asunder and then take the biggest piece.
Same with my ex... as far as splitting the boat, but he'd convince himself that he could survive by clinging to the smallest piece, because he has magical super-abilities.
Just considering this question made me nauseous :?
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My mpther wook me up after surgery, knowing that I was agonizing in pain, after sedation, she wook me up and told me she did not have anybody to talk to. I am talking about coming out of the surgery. She cooked ald bacon and gave it to me, I got sick, and she said she was happy she did not give it to the dog and she would be very sad if the dog got sick. She accused me to flirt with my step father. And many more. So, I thought she would put me in the boat and tell me she was a hero, but after analizing that I do not know if I voted wrong. If she had to choose bewteen my sister and me she would definitely choose my sister.
I am just very upset today.
:( :x :( :?
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Dr. Grossman:
LOOOOVED this little poll! The options are so typical of what an N parent would do.....When submitting my vote, my other thought was that there was absolutely no question, no hesitation that my Nparent would be the one going in the lifeboat. She wouldn't try to come up with alternate solutions....she wouldn't say she loved me or that I was strong enough to weather this storm...and she certainly wouldn't even consider that it would be best if her 8 year old child was the one saved.....
I think that's what's at the core of an Nfamily...at least in mine.....There is never any question that any and all thoughts should be first and foremost with the Nparent or Nsibling....As the child of an N, even an 8-year-old, you were taught to think only of the Nparent and his/her needs, never your own. The other comment I had about this scenario was even IF the parent was so self-absorbed that he/she insisted on being the one saved in the lifeboat, there would be no words of comfort, love, caring, angst, guilt or anything else that would help the child through the terrible scenario. Without hesitation or a single twinge of guilt, the Nparent does what is best for him/her, never the other person, even if that person is their own child.
But great poll.....I'll be curious to see how the results break out....
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I said Mom would take the boat with the practical justification that I wouldn't have been able to row.
What does it mean, Richard?
Hops
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I didn't vote because none of the answers fit my mother. I believe she would leave me and get in the boat herself while telling me (and herself), despite all obvious evidence to the contrary, that she would go and bring help back for me. Then she would rewrite history and tell others how I drowned while she was trying to save me.
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My father might tell me I was a disappointment (he has in the past), but I think he would have been more likely to tell me that it is more important that he survives – that in the bigger picture his life is more important to the world than mine. Capped with a “You do understand don’t you?” But close enough.
My mother – none of the above. She would panic and look to me to fix the situation for her. At age 8, I would have put her in the boat and told her I loved her. She would row to shore, tell everyone that she tried everything she could to save me but it was hopeless and that I died in the explosion. She would then convince herself that this was the truth. If I washed ashore on some flotsam and told the truth, she would have told everyone that I must be confused because of the <<<in a hushed tone>>> trauma………
Peace
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I change my reply to the exact same as flower power. That is a more accurate explanation of my mom.
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It's hard for me to decide. I guess I'm lucky I never had to face any life threatening situations with either of my parents. I suspect my father would be far less rational than any of the choices. He would be freaked out at the prospect of death and wouldn't do much of anything. I sure can't imagine him doing anything heroic. Maybe he'd say "you're young and strong, you can swim" while taking the boat for himself. Or he'd decide he has to save himself for the sake of the other offspring. So I voted choice 3, which seems to be rationalizing saving himself.
It's an interesting exercise, because it makes me realize how hard it is to imagine either of my parents doing something really altruistic.
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Well I just changed my vote from option 3 to option 4. I'm thinking both would probably happen - therfore I'm selecting 3 based on my logic that because I've mostly likely drowned I'd only have heard what was said to me. I wouldn't know what excuse the parent made to others later. Sounds about right.
Papillon
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Hiya,
I chose the C option, however I agree with Gabben, that it most certainly depends on my mother's mood during the crisis. If there was some predisposing factor, like say, I clumsily tripped over the whatchamicallit that triggered the boat's sudden misfortune, yeah then the knee-jerk reaction may be to panic and drop the whole "parents are supposed to do the right thing" facade.. Or maybe in the throes of her world-class paranoia, she would believe I was finally taking my opportunity to "off her" and she would quickly move to one of the more sinister options like D or E. My father would most definitely attempt to do the rowing with me in the boat, but mostly because he wouldn't trust me to be able to save us. I think the C option would be the most characteristic option of a narcissistic parent because, these personality types tend to want to cover up their real intentions. Say, by some twist of fate, the child left to die were to survive, the very appearance of such brutal inpropriety to the outside world would destroy the N's facade of having superior morals, regardless of their true selfish intentions . Taking the "highest road possible" while still maintaining self-preservation is going to be the N's best option in any scenario in my opinion.
Tiffany
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Hi Tiffany,
I kind of got mixed up on this one. At first, I thought it meant that the parent would row with both of us in the lifeboat. But then it says that the lifeboat held only one person. That made me think it would have been impossible for two people, even an eight year old, in the lifeboat for whatever reason. So I reread it and thought it must mean that the parent would get in the lifeboat and leave the child on his own in the water saying, you wouldn't have been able to row to shore anyway. Or were you saying that your parent would put you in the lifeboat and try to row it while swimming? Now I'm wondering if I read it right.
If you weren't talking about option three, then none of what I wrote above is relevant.
My father would most definitely attempt to do the rowing with me in the boat, but mostly because he wouldn't trust me to be able to save us.
Get in the lifeboat and say: "I'm doing the practical thing---you wouldn't have been able to row to shore anyway"
tt
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Yeah TT,
It's funny, after re-reading the options, I've refined the scenario for my father. He would go with Option B if he could ASSURE that I would tell everyone far and wide that he was indeed a hero but this is if and only if he were not able to toss me in the boat and figure out a way to come along rowing, paddling, something. We would either survive together with this awesome heroic story of how he single-handedly defied logic and go us back to shore or we would die together failing in a boat only meant to hold and be rowed by one person. And if that were the case, would people come to know the REAL story of what happen? or would they just assume that he was still a hero for attempting to survive at sea never leaving the side of his precious little one. HA!
Did I do a good job at confusing you more, tt? :lol:
Tiff
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I really struggled with this. My father who has actually been diagnosed by a psychiatrist as NPD was less obviously so at age 40. At that time he would have put me in the boat and he would not have bragged out loud about being a hero but he would had thought it his "obligation" to be a martyr more than a hero. He was all about obligation, all about the law.
My mother would have opted for a version of leaving me and getting in the boat herself. She would have been crying and acting pityful. Crying and wailing for help. She would be helpless to help me never considering the option of getting out and letting me in.
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I know exactly what my mother would do. She would put me in the boat, tell me to row to shore, and valiantly sacrifice herself for me. Then I'd get to watch while she drowned in front of me. That's just my mother.
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I believe that my mom would love to die saving any child heroicly. Being seen as a far superior mother, a saint of a mother, and a hero, and a model citizen, is pretty much her chief narcassism, which is why it has been so painful and confusing to admit that she is not a model mother by a long stretch. So I voted that she would save me and then give me a speech about what a hero she was, and give me lots of messages to pass on to those she left behind and probably lots of guilt trips, too. It would be a huge source of narcissistic supply for her and she would probably die very very happy, feeling like her life had finally been validated and fulfilled in the deepest sense. Unfortunately, it was the day to day mothering and nurturing that she didn't have a handle on.
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My father loved (loves) boats, and owned a succession them while I was growing up. Aboard, nobody could escape him. When I was eleven, I told my mother I knew if the thing went down, my father would push me under to keep himself afloat. She was appalled I would say such a thing, despite the fact that he twice tried to drown her (once while scuba diving and was caught in the act by my brothers). It was important to her (I mean, important in ways other than that she was protecting us, which she wasn't) that she be his only focus. Not exactly The Love Boat.
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My NP's were/are such liars - like one response said, they "rewrite history" constantly. This poll was a very real flash from the past for me b/c it almost happened in a similar way. My NF took my baby brother and me fishing on the coast one fine day. He left me on a big sandbar to crab while he and my bro went into the bay to fish. Several hours later, with the tide coming in to cover the sandbar, there was still no sign of him. At sunset, I had little more than a square foot of sand left to stand on, and a fishing boat came by with 2 men in it. They slowed and asked if I needed help. I told them my father was supposed to come get me when he finished fishing. They asked his name and sped off toward the dock around the bend. (This was a deep water boating channel, not a shallow creek.) Apparently they found him, loading his boat back on his trailer to go home. The two men read him the riot act, while he grumbled about having to put his boat back in the water to come get me. He and my brother got to me just as the tide lapped at my ankles. Not a word was said.
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No!! That is awful. The only thing those men should have done was take you with them while they looked for your creepy dad!! My mom would have done something similar and then years later deny it!!
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I think they knew exactly who my NF was and what a creep he was. If they had taken me with them, he might have accused them of something - one young teenaged female in a boat with two men. Would've been just like him to cover up HIS failure.
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Dr. G,
I have been away from the board for quite some time...
Last night I thought it was time to come back, for reassurance that I am not alone in this ongoing ACON situation. One of the first things I read was this article on your site. My husband was sitting nearby, so we did the Poll together. I answered #3, without wavering. He, who was raised in a relatively normal home, answered #1. Then we looked at the results. I burst into tears instantly as I saw what a "Normal" answer would be.... thank you for the reassurance that, indeed, my upbringing was not the norm, and that I am not the crazy one.
Sincerely, with thanks for all you are doing, and for still being here to help us Stand, in spite of it all.
~onlyme
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I can't take the poll. I'm seeing the results, but have no ability to take the poll. Maybe it's a Firefox issue?
That said, I have to repeat what Finding Peace said, as my M would have done EXACTLY the same thing:
"My mother – none of the above. She would panic and look to me to fix the situation for her. At age 8, I would have put her in the boat and told her I loved her. She would row to shore, tell everyone that she tried everything she could to save me but it was hopeless and that I died in the explosion. She would then convince herself that this was the truth."
Exactly.
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Knowing NWomb-Donor, she would ANNOUNCE that I was a disappointment, take the boat, and tell others I died in the explosion AND play the DRAMATIC MANIPULATING MARTYR TO THE HILT!!!!!!
Bones
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It would be likely that I was killed in the explosion or drowned immediately after because neither parent would have been holding me and if there was a cabin below deck I would have been in the part furtherist from them so they couldn't hear me cry.
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Hi JustKathy, Bones, and Sealynx,
Thanks for your responses. The reason no new responses can be recorded is that I closed the poll shortly after I posted it because I wrote about the results in one of my essays.
OnlyMe,
It's good to hear from you again. I loved the joint poll-taking (you and your husband), the responses, and your reaction! I'm glad the poll was meaningful...
Best,
Richard
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Good poll. I can certainly say that my NM would be Option B. SHe just LOVED the martry role and played "Mother of the Year" to the hilt. That made dealing with her so crazy. To the outside world, she looked like a wonderful mother, so trying to get anyone to "hear" me was impossible.
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Its a toss up. I feel when I was younger my mother would have put me in the boat and drown as she has tried to commit suicide in the past, but then denies it, and says my step father tried to killl her, but then like someone elso commented, I don't even know if she would have done that, she might have wanted to find a way to try and come with me as she finds me as a extension of herself and says she can't bear the thought of anything happening to me..she would rather be there when it happens...we would both drown... or ...if it is based on her feeling now, she would get in the boat and save her self and leave me to drown...
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I have trouble sometimes finding the posts I want, so I actually told this story on another thread, after I read this poll but could not find it again!
This actually happened with my aunt and her family. My mother was a teenager and it was my aunt, uncle, their two small children, and my mother in a small rowboat. The boat started to take on water, and there was only one life jacket. My mother said that my aunt jumped up in a panic and put on the only life jacket herself. Fortunately everybody survived --- to suffer for another 50 years or so at the hand of my N aunt.
My own mother --- I think she would have saved me when I was a child, but I'm not sure about now, I think she feels a lot of competition with me and a lot of jealousy now.
If my dad was in the boat, she would have looked to him to tell her how to feel (and then later resented him "telling her what to do."). He definitely would have saved me first. (If he had the time, he might have first pontificated about how he wanted me to spend the rest of my life, but he would have saved me).