Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on March 06, 2008, 06:59:19 PM
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Tonight,my H started treating my son badly. My son did not do two chores. He treated him in a very demeaning way. After my son left, I "got in my H's face" and told that he was not going to bully my son b/c he could NOT bully me.Then, he started trying to push me back,verbally, but he can't anymore.He started being nasty to me,but he can't hurt me anymore b/c I am strong,now.
I could see that he was surprised AND afraid of me. I have internal strength and if I need the police, I will have external strength and I WILL use it.When I lost my son, Scott, I lost many illusions about life.
It is really good for me to see my H for what he is. When he rails at my son, I see a bully who can't bully ME anymore so is going after s/one else.
The patterns are becoming very clear to me and I am thankful for that. Scott is in Heaven ,so he is safe, even though *I* failed him. I failed him ,no matter what anyone says. I kept trying to make "right" what could not be made right.
I lost my basic integrity and that is how I could lie and lie about my life.
I won't do it anymore.
Ami
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(((((((((((((((((((Ami - strong with integrity)))))))))))))))))))))))
tt
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Thank you ,TT
I was thinking about the times in my life when I was strong . I had integrity, then,a defined right and wrong.It gave structure and provided safety .I knew when to stay, to go, act and retreat .My NM put me in a blender ,on high speed, and when it stopped, I was shredded.
The line in the song, "when you ain't go nothing,you got nothing to lose" is how I feel.
You have a certain strength when you are at the bottom.
So, I am happy that I can see reality and take a stand. Love Ami
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My F just called. He had a "cerebral" answer,'That is just life". I don't think it is "just life" to live with an abusive man, your son kills himself, and your other son is getting bullied.
My gut tells me that that is WRONG.
Maybe *I *am wrong,but my gut tells me that it is "just" life ,if you ALLOW it to be "just life"
I think I will call my aunt and ask her what she thinks.Thanks for listening,very much. Ami
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Hi Ami,
My gut tells me that that is WRONG.
Maybe *I *am wrong,but my gut tells me that it is "just" life ,if you ALLOW it to be "just life"
I believe a key factor in living with integrity is trusting your gut, AKA your intuition. This is the third conversation I'm having about intuition today, it's funny, powerful signals in my life usually come in threes. Well, anyway, I would encourage you to allow yourself to be guided by your intuition, which is believed by many to be God talking to you, wherein prayer is YOU talking to God. Your gut normally does not fail you, it's there to help you navigate your life, potentially save your life. It is almost subconscious, instinctual. It's the place you go before you even have time to think or analyze. Trust your gut, Ami.
Take care
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Dear Besee and Tiffany,
I called my aunt and she gave me great advice. She said to trust my gut, as you did. She said that my F was WRONG to normalize' "outrageous" ' behavior.
I see how I ended up "normalizing " outrageous behavior, myself, but no more!.
I will live by values, my gut,my heart and integrity. Whoever falls by the wayside, let them go. I am so far down from losing my precious son, that I don't have much farther to fall, and that is a strength,in itself.
Thanks so much ,Tiffany and Besee for your posts and your supportive words! Love Ami
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Good for your gut!
And good for you, Ami.
One day, perhaps you and your son will need another place to live.
But one step at a time.
Bullies are spirit killers.
love
Hops
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I called my F and he apologized. He never "knew" how to set standards for his life OR he would not have been a wimp,living with an N(self explanatory--bleh)
I see that my F is clueless ,in many ways, about how to navigate life. He was a successful businessman ,so I thought he "knew" about life,but I guess that one realm of success does not translate to another(the emotional realm)
I was "shocked" to see how HE had abdicated his life, just as *I* had. He was my role model and I see that I did role model myself after him, which was to "take" all sorts of unacceptable behavior, as he does.
Last night, I saw my H w/out blinders, too. I am very happy to be seeing the truth. My H treats me like gold,simply b/c he HAS to. He knows the "gig" is over with abusing me,but now he is trying it on my son. I see, with my eyes wide open---bleh.
I told my son that I will stand up for him, always and he can count on it.
I see just how I got to this sorry point.
Ann said that when s/one commits suicide ,they lose their self protective mechanism. S/thing has gone very awry. I see, with me, that the same thing happened.Ann says that there is a "victim" spirit which resonates with the predator spirit . One calls to the other.
I see how my losing the self protective mechanism set me up for all this pain and trouble.
IF I had the basic self protective mechanism, I would have run so far from my H, right from the beginning and always, actually.
Even my M saw how bad he was,one of the few times she had good sense.
So, now I am coming together and seeing the truths in life, which I have been blind to.
Before I got numb, I made a decision ,which I did NOT honor.I saw a movie about a girl who was victimized and I said I would never let that happen to me. I did let it happen to me b/c I lost the connection with the core belief in my goodness and "fitness" as a human being.
I lost the truth of "Talk softly,but carry a big stick".You need the stick always, even if you hardly use it.
That would be one lesson from my tragedy.
I allowed my life to descend like this, even though it was NOT my" fault." I was denuded and underwater, so my life was a reflection of that. Now ,I am almost out of the water, and my life is reflecting that.So, as I gain my mind ,my external life will change and is changing.
I know it was not my "fault" for Scott BUT it was a result,in part, of my being underwater and abdicating my life, as my F did.
God forgives me ,but I still must face the truth,honestly. Honesty is the map out of emotional and mental illness, according to the Bible . It is working for me, and I am almost out of the lies and distortions. Ami
PS I can see that my Aunt would never,ever allow what happened to me to happen to her D's. I asked her what she would do if they had a H like mine. She said she would let them come home.
I told her about my H.She said,"Didn't he LEARN anything from the death of his son?"The answer is NO. He blames it on "brain chemistry. It was NOT brain chemistry,it was craziness. My H has learned nothing,less than nothing and now he is trying to repeat it,with my older son,BUT *I* have learned and that is the difference. It will never be the same again, b/c *I* am different. When I get totally up from underwater, then I will try to put my "house" in order.
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You know,Hops. My son died b/c he could not protect ME and my other son. That was the root of it. Scott took on the "role" of protector and he failed(in his own mind).Scott would tell me that he felt he was a "bad" person b/c he did not stand up more. *I* told him that *I* should have stood up, not him.
Then, after all this, my H took him to be the Golden Child and he flipped out. THAT is the story---short and sweet. That is it.
It is NOT brain chemistry as my H likes to say. It is being pushed way harder than your mind can take and breaking. That is it. the human spirit can be pushed so far and it bends and then breaks.
Scott broke and that is what happened.
Now , for me, it is a new chapter. Thanks Hops for your caring and loving support. Ami
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Always, Ami.
How is your son?
How is he coping?
Does he have support, outside the family too?
I know you must worry about him.
Hops
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Ami,
Is your H the father of your sons?
Do you really believe Scott felt he needed to protect you? Why do you think this? Are you sure that this is all of what went into Scott's decision? It is human nature to try to find something as an answer to the pain. I am not saying your H was not a huge contributor, but do take in all of the factors that you know about, and remember their may be some you do not know about.
Why are you staying with your H?
How is your son? Is he getting counseling?
Love, Beth
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Ami,
I remember once when my son was about 3 or 4, (he's 18 now) my ex father-in-law was berating him for something and I got in his face and said "you may have been able to beat down your own son, but you need to leave my son alone" He totally respected me after that ,but continued to bully the rest of the family though. My ex had been so beaten down he is still unable to make decisions, as it's easier to let someone else be wrong. That was our main problem.
I bet your H will think twice before he does it again.Remember too, Scott is watching and proud of you.
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She said,"Didn't he LEARN anything from the death of his son?"The answer is NO. He blames it on "brain chemistry. It was NOT brain chemistry,it was craziness. My H has learned nothing,less than nothing and now he is trying to repeat it,with my older son,BUT *I* have learned and that is the difference.
Dear Ami, back last fall when you were working on your issues arising from your relationship with your mom, I used to think 'you know, it's hard to say, maybe there is hope for her H.' It's hard to make an assessment through the internet of people you never meet.
But you know, in my own life I waited and waited and tried and waited and waited and tried with my dad and he never learns and he never will. He too always comes up with a reason that is scientific, that is physical, or that depends on such and such what-have-you, but most importantly, has nothing to do with him and absolves him of any sort of responsibility at all. Then he won't have to change or learn anything. He never does. It's craven behavior and no matter how much he writhes, it is only his responsibility.
I understand what you have said about needing to understand how it came about so that you don't choose the same kind of relationship again. But you know what? You can do that same work just fine while being separated from him. The important thing is you do that work to free yourself from the pattern, but that doesn't mean you have to live inside the pattern while you do the work. You could be single and not looking. It's a huge thing just to reclaim your own life, never mind about other relationships.
Love & support - Iphi
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Dear Hops, Alone, Beth and Iphi,
What 'hit" me when I read your posts was "Who needs therapy when I have you guys(lol)?
You each have raised profound points and questions.
Hops --my other son is doing very well,considering the circumstances. He is in school(half way through his degree) and working as a manager at McDonalds. He has been there since 10th grade when he started on the counter. He loves managing and wants to get a degree and then work in the corporation.
He,emotionally, is doing better. He and I have worked together to face our lives honestly and there will be NO more abuse.I am trying to get my head above water, emotionally, and THEN I will have the sense to make whatever moves I need to make.
That is my present goal .
Beth---This has been my only marriage(Isn't it enough--lol) and they are our children. I know I use the term"My children" and it can be misleading. I don't like the term our children and have never used it and people do ask.
Scott expressed those feelings that he was a bad person b/c he could not"protect his brother(to whom he was really close ) and me.He would call me up and cry about it from college. Of course,I tried to "tell" him that it was MY fault,not his, if it was anyone's.However,my H took Scott"over" and made Scott his "best friend" and Scott could not integrate all the sick threads in the yarn(as I see it)
Alone-- My H has messed with me AND my son for the LAST time. If he needs to go to jail, he will go. NO MORE!
Iphi You are exactly right. I need to reclaim my life. My first step is to get my "mind" back. I am slowly getting my sanity back. I will do what I need to do. In the meantime,no one will be abused and that is a fact.
I need to use wisdom in what to do and how to do it. That is my goal, to find the way to live a life with dignity for my son and me. I will do it.
Thank you all so much for responding. It means so much to me . Love Ami
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Ami, IMO clarity, truth, feel so good after being in a fog or underwater for so long. You are discovering your strength that was there all along. In fact, I believe the N's see our strength and they treat us so badly b/c of it. Maybe they are afraid - like your H was - that our strength will expose them or serve as a reproach to them. I really do believe that.
I remember when my nephew was 3. He was the first grandchild. He was at M&D's house playing. He went up to where my NF was sitting and hit him lightly on the arm - you know how 3 year olds will do. My NF hauled off and slapped the child squarely in the face. I told my NF that he was acting like a bully 6 year old to an innocent 3 year old. Naturally he didn't speak to me for weeks after. Thank god there was a witness there so he couldn't later lie and say he didn't do it.
You rock, sistah!
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Thank you Kate. I AM discovering my strength and will go forward. People love me and need me and I have to value myself for my life to be worth anything to them or myself. Thanks so much for your post,Kate. Love and a Big Hug, Ami
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The line in the song, "when you ain't go nothing,you got nothing to lose" is how I feel.
You have a certain strength when you are at the bottom.
So, I am happy that I can see reality and take a stand. Love Ami
(((Ami)))
standing beside you as you live in the real, take NO MORE. I see a picture of you, getting free from abusive, whom ever is the abuser.
through all your pain you are guided to live in truth as it will set you free.
Your courage and loving heart while at the bottom (pain, and grief we will cannot know) is truly amazing.
You give strength, hope and love to all.
seasons
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Thank you Seasons. Our fight, as I see it, is to separate the lies from the truth,about ourselves and our lives. With an N parent, there are SO many lies. Then, you ,often,marry an N (or close to it--lol) and so multiply your original problem.
Then, for me, I made so many additional mistakes based on lies and distortions.
The Bible promises that the "Truth will set us free". That is the hope, to keep mining for the truth.
Thanks for all your encouragement, Seasons. It really means a lot ! Love Ami
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Ami and Towrite
You are discovering your strength that was there all along. In fact, I believe the N's see our strength and they treat us so badly b/c of it. Maybe they are afraid - like your H was - that our strength will expose them or serve as a reproach to them. I really do believe that.
Towrite, I think you are completely correct and agree 100%. This reminds me of Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz: She always had the ability to go home.
I think we always had our inner strength, our inner truth, but the Ns tried to kill our inner strength and truths, but they can't. The Ns cannot steal our souls, no matter how much they try.
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Ann
You are SO smart!. Thank you, Ann. Love Ami
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Thank you Ami.
Ami, how are you feeling today? How is your body feeling? How is your mind feeling?
ann
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Thanks for asking, Ann. I am going through so many changes ,now, that I feel kind of unsettled,but I think I will feel better as the new changes settle in.
How are you, Ann? Love to you, Ami
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Ami,
I can imagine you feel unsettled. I remember feeling grief in my body, as well as feeling it emotionally. It felt so terrible to both my mind and body. The only thing that helped physically were massages and baths. Little by little, the pain lessens.
I'm doing OK. Think I have a cold.
Hope you feel better.
w/ love
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Dear Ann,
Your caring posts mean a lot to me. Could you describe how grief felt in your body. It helps me to hear what others have gone through ,with grief.
I have been getting massages, taking hot baths with salt and exercising. You are right, "body" things do help.
I had such a huge ,overwhelming loss with my son ,that I have not even mourned my 13 year old dog, who died two weeks,later. She was a Standard Poodle, but had German Shephard traits(they are the police dogs in France). She would sit by me and guard me against everyone, even family.Scott used to get mad when Henri would growl when he got near me. He would say,"That stupid dog."(lol)
The feeling of "being protected" by some living creature(even a dog-lol) was precious to me.
At the end, she was so weak, but would come and put her head,in my lap,for me to rub it.'
My friend took her to the vet for a check up and Henri stayed and was put to sleep. I didn't even go to say goodbye b/c I was barely able to do anything,after Scott's death.
I nursed her back to life on 2 occasions. I may have been able to do it this time, too.
She was most everything you would want from an animal friend. She used to look in my eyes and "smile",look right in my eyes, her eyes shining and wag her tail.
I have another dog,Mimi, a Yorkie,but I can't seem to bond, as I did with Henrietta. Maybe,it takes time.It probably does, as with a person.
I just needed to express my grief for Henreitta ,as I never grieved at all for her and she was a wonderful friend. Ami
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Henrietta is right now sitting at a doggie cafe in evven (zat is ze French for "heaven") sipping (okay, slurping) an aperitif wiz an 'andsome frog-dog (zat is ze French for bulldog) wishing zat you knew how 'appy she is in the 'ereafter, where ze streets are paved with biscuits (zat is ze French for biscuits) and zere are ze fire hydrants every few yards and where everyone you see, zey bend ovair immediatement and invite you to sniff zair butts...
xo
Hops
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Thank You, Hops!! Love Ami
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Ami,
I'm so sorry to hear about your doggy.
Oh, Ami, so much grief and pain this year. When it rains, it pours, all at once. sheesh!!!!!!
I felt grief in my body as this: constant aching muscles, aching joints, fatigue, felt like a sleep walker. The grief was a constant malaise that followed me every where. Everywhere I went, I took my grief with me, or it followed me. I felt it all the time, it was there all the time.
Then I started to consciously work on it. When I felt it in my body (aches, fatigue), I asked myself what I could do to feel better? hot bath, massage, cry, sit and zone out, visualize releasing it. It helped to take joy in everyday things, like feeling the sun on my skin, looking at beautiful flowers, sleeping.
I also read many books, trying to fathom the meaning of life and one thing I decided was that I must enjoy my life. So, seeking joy and enjoyment has become key for me. That joy and enjoyment includes helping and loving people (but not in a codependent way) and honoring and validating myself.
Have you read any books on grief? Some talk about how to live with the loss of a loved one, what to do on anniversaries, birthdays, etc.
I guess the hardest part about losing a loved one is how do we keep living? We must find a new way to live and learn to live with our loss. I suppose that's a lesson God wants us to learn: How do we continue living, despite the loss? It's a really deep profound question and maybe it's God's way of telling us that we need to live on a deeper, more profound plain of existence.
hth
love,
annie