Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on March 07, 2008, 09:07:45 PM
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Lately, I have been reliving that horrible feeling of shame. I had to throw off my identity and stand emotionally naked, in the hopes that my abuser would let me "survive'(emotionally) I had to throw away most of what I "knew" as me,in order to denude myself enough so I could be "safe".
To throw off yourself is one of the worst things that can happen to a child(IMO)
Then, you cannot "hold " your own identity.
At that point, you are set up to take your sense of self from the outside(codepencency, addictions etc).
I,also, realized that a way to set me up for shame was perfectionism.
I am realizing that my "need" to be perfect put me in a loop of shame.
I COULD be shamed b/c I could not do things perfectly. I see that I have to be "imperfect".
That will be an antidote to shame, the ability to be flawed , to own it and be at peace with it.
My goal ,now, is to define my "shame" for myself. not let s/one ,on the outside do it. I need to define how I let shame in ,or keep ot out.
I can't give that "job" to the outside or I will be in a prison of needing others to define me, again and again. Ami
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Dear Ame
Sorry for your shame,
I know this is lame
but doin' it just the same....
(((((((Ami)))))))
Violet
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Ami,
You know, you are throwing out these really profound statements, one after the other.
I hear you saying that you gave up all that you thought you believed about yourself and created a mask to show to your abusers, which "became you".
That you was a perfectionist, because you didn't want to be criticized or held accountable for the made up beliefs you showed the world.
Because you came to believe that acceptance and validation could come only from your abusers, you took to self-medicating with whatever you could find.
Now you realize that you can define yourself - and whether or not "shame" should apply to you.
I was thinking about shame and the feeling associated with it. For me, it was THAT I allowed someone to overtake my "self" and install themself as the deity that told me what to think/do/believe/how to act to make them happy. I still feel the need to therapize that out..... I can think back to before I met my husband/N and there were so many instances I rebelled and stood up for myself. Then I lost myself for about 17 years. I do identify with all that you said. Now's the time to reclaim, restake and name how our future's going to be....
Dandylife
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I was thinking about shame and the feeling associated with it. For me, it was THAT I allowed someone to overtake my "self" and install themself as the deity that told me what to think/do/believe/how to act to make them happy.
Dandylife
Holy cR@?, Dandylife, I think you just made a light bulb go off inside of my head....
Violet
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Dear Dandy,
I am so glad my thread resonated with you. I have been having profound ,new awarenessness but did not know if I was making myself clear.
I see that WE must be the "owner" of our shame or else we ASK everyone else to "medicate' it for us by seeking approval, being nice, etc(many different behaviors as a way to get others to tell us we are OK, so we can push down out shame.)
However,it never stays down for long, so we need to keep repeating the cycle.
We are never free when our shame is in "outside" hands.That is what I am seeing from doing it for SO long and suffering so badly.
Thank you, Violet, for your hug. I send one right back to you-----(((((((((Violet)))))))))with get well wishes ,attached!
Thanks again ,Dandy, for helping me define the problem and solution, better. Love Ami
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I made a big stride when I started seeing how shame worked in my life. My best friend helped me awaken to how my M put me in a shame loop. I "had" to be perfect and could not do it, so I was worthless(bad) This played out in all areas of my life. I was a failure in all of them.
My M yin--yanged me from the top(perfect housekeeper( a joke?)look perfect,have a perfect "social life",have perfect mental health(another joke-lol) etc. THEN, when I failed,I was a snail on the ground, stepped on.
I was worthy of being decimated b/c I was such an embarrassment, shame and horror to HER. I should be locked in my room so as not to bring any more pain and shame down on her.
When I was younger, I see how much of a no-win situation I was in. If I got good grades, I was a failure b/c I studied for them and I should be SO smart that I didn't NEED to study. I should look good,but spend no time on it.
I had to do everything perfectly , effortlessly------bleh.
My M has been in my head since my teens. I was able to keep her out of my head,to some degree, before my teens. I saw HER as the problem, not me. As long as I did ,I kept my sanity. However, when I stopped doing that and saw her as wise and me as the problem---all hell broke loose inside me and I went down and have been there ,until now, when I am swimming up(facing reality)
Papillions posts have helped very much. I see Papillion as swimming up from lies and distortions(parents POV) and embracing his own unique identity. It is an inspiration to me, and much needed,now, when I am almost to the top.
Ami
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I was worthy of being decimated b/c I was such an embarrassment, shame and horror to HER. I should be locked in my room so as not to bring any more pain and shame down on her.
When I was younger, I see how much of a no-win situation I was in.
My M has been in my head since my teens.
Ami
I have been wondering why some of us became the "scapegoat" and other siblings the "golden child." I think personally, I discerned and despised from a very early age (preschool) the LIES and SHAM foisted on me by my Nparent. I wonder if being able to "see through" these parent/deceivers started the cycle of "child rejects parent" ----> "parent fears and rejects child" or some such dynamic. IOW, did our integrity, even as children, deeply threaten our lie-infested parent, causing them to fear us, then hate us, then reject us? V
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Dear Violet,
I think the N parent HAD to destroy our integrity b/c our integrity gave us a power, a center, which,if it was strong enough ,could SEE them. They did not want us to have ANY power to see the truth, which is that they were small and cowardly, like the Wizard of Oz.
Storm, who used to be on the board, would say that the abuser has to denude the victim's trust in herself. The victim must be a wasteland, and in that way is ripe for abuse.
I think you brought up an important point, Violet, although it is VERY sad to contemplate.
Love , Ami
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Because you came to believe that acceptance and validation could come only from your abusers
Dandy,
For me, this is a key statement because, I think for many of us, we sought (and still seek) validation from other people and that can destroy us. I have learned that I cannot seek my validation from another person or any person, other than myself. So, that's the lesson: We can only validate ourselves. If we seek validation from another person (a parent, spouse, whoever), we give them power over us, we give away our power and in doing so, we give away our identity and our core.
So, perhaps my biggest lesson has been not to seek validation from another person, so that I do not give away my power. IMO, I think if we can understand this lesson and live it, many related issues resolve themselves. For example, if we only seek validation from ourselves, we feel less (perhaps no) shame and our self esteem increases because we are accepting ourselves.
So, self validation can lead to accepting ourselves, and in turn, this reduces our feelings of shame, increases our self esteem and ........drum roll please...........leads to self love??!!??.
Thanks Dandy, Ami & Violet, you really got me thinking about all this.
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Ann, I say this to ALL your posts---You have so much insight that it is mind blowing(lol). I am so glad you are here.
Could you elaborate on HOW you saw the insight you just described? Ami
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Thank you so much Ami.
I'm also pretty amazed at my conclusion/discovery abut the power of self validation.
Here's how I see it: Dandy read your post and she commented that your statements showed that you came to believe that acceptance and validation could come only from your abusers. As I see it, many of us on this board suffer because we felt (and may feel) that we must get acceptaance from our abusers, that we can only get acceptance from our abusers. When we only seek acceptance (which I call "validation") from our abusers (or from another person, whther or not that person is an abuser), we leave ourselves out of the equation because WE HAVE NO SELF.
Since we only sought acceptance/validation from the abuser AND THE ABUSER DESTROYED OUR "SELF" (because the abuser sought to control us and could only control us if he/she destroyrd our "self), we have no "self". It's like we look in the mirror, but we don't see our own reflection, but instead we see the reflection, the image of the abuser- it's like those negative tapes in our heads which are the voices of the abuser. When we look at ourselves, we don't see/hear ourselves, instead, we see/hear the image/voice of the abuser. This happens because we sought acceptance/validation from the abuser, but we did not seek acceptance/validation from OURSELVES.
As mentioined, one of the most important lessons I've learned is not to seek acceptance/validation from another person (whether or not they are an abuser). I MUST ONLY SEEK VALIDATION FROM ME, MYSELF.
Now, once I am in the mindset of only seeking validation from myself, I affirm myself and I feel less shame because I no longer blindly accept the JUDGMENTS of other people (whrther or not they are an abuser). When you seek validation from other people, you blindly accept THEIR JUDGEMENTS ABOUT YOU and this can make you feel flooded with shame.
So, when I feel less shame, I feel a greater self esteem and when my shame DECREASES, my self esteem and self love INCREASES.
I got to run and take a phone call.
HTH
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You rock, Ann!!!! Ami
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Thank you, Ami, you rock too.
But truthfully, does this resonate with you, or am I spewing gobbalty gook?
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I am serious! Your posts( this one included) are like an angel came down and gave me exactly what I needed. I will comment,more later, when I have time to think about the content of your last post more.
Ann, you really understand so many things that I am currently trying to access. I really appreciate your being on the board.You have wisdom and insight, Ann.
Love Ami
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Thank you, Ami.
My question was not a way to seek your validation, I just wondered if it truly resonated with you.
You all helped me put this together:
Not seeking validation from others and only seeking validation from ourselves
leads to
Greater self esteem, which
leads to
Less shame, which
leads to
accepting ourselves (self acceptance), which
leads to
loving ourselves (self love)
Love,
annie
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Dear Ann,
This is SUCH an important topic, crucial ,really. I will write more later,when I get home. Love Ami
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I'm just boogying along with this:
I think that these 4 elements are inter-related and as we increase/decrease one of these elements, the remaining elements either increase or decrease accordingly:
1. validating ourselves (not seeking validation from other people, whether or not they are abusers)
2. shame
3. self esteem
4. self love
Decrease self validation and then, shame increases, while self esteem & self love decreases.
Increase self validation and then, shame decreases, while self esteem & self love increases.
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""think the N parent HAD to destroy our integrity b/c our integrity gave us a power, a center, which,if it was strong enough ,could SEE them. They did not want us to have ANY power to see the truth, which is that they were small and cowardly, like the Wizard of Oz.""
Something in this statement has gotten to me. I cant place my mother at all, and I am so upset with her, and really cant bear her at all, but she's my mum and she's suffering and shes old and she cant change.
i married and N, left him after 15 yeasr in sept 2005- not knowing until some time later what he was. I fell in love with a covert N 9 months later only to be trashed by them both, and have been in so much despair with my kids still being used against me now, never ending propaganda and muddy waters in divorce and issues with my kids.
In amongst all this, my father has alzheimers, and having provided for my mother and his children his whole life (a more beautiful, calm and gentle man you couldnot meet). my biggest reality check came first, when my brother told me that my mother was saying to my dad " if you dont stop behaving like this i will leave you" ......my second reality check came when, at one of my lowest points, my mum says to me " if i had my life over again, I would do what you have done. I would marry him, have my kids and leave him before he gets old and decrepit"
OMG. is my mother, like my H and my D a monster! I cant get my head round things. I drink to escape my reality.
Sorry to poke in on anotherwise positive thread. The wizard of oz thing just got to me. my mums done nothing bar be a mum, and i am questioning how well she did that, without questioning it at all. Am too scared of the truth. she is so critical, yet so sensitive, cries if you dare to say a word out of line to her.
i keep thinking i am getting somewhere, and then i realise that i am probably not.
like I say, get badk to positive vein of the thread, am just nosing about, and not sure where i am at at all, may poke in here and there, and apologise if its inappropriate. I just need to rant sometimes
xx
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Ami & Ann3,
I just wanted to say, too, that I think it is a human desire to feel accepted and validated by others. The more you can self-validate, in my opinion, the better off (mentally healthy) you will be. I know there are others out there who feel differently, but it makes sense to me. I got lucky and I have developed and strengthened that ability for myself over the years, I rarely ask anybody for advice or opinions, and I have a sense of "feeling" if I'm on the right track or not myself.
However, I think it's a healthy desire to want validation. It becomes unhealthy when you seek it from someone who is incapable of giving it. Once you develop trust with someone, that's when you should begin to seek validation from them. So, I just wanted to clarify my position on that. There are plenty of times it's a warm and loving thing to seek validation - from a trustworthy individual!
nickyinstant,
You have several challenging situations going on. I can only suggest remembering to do alot of self-care through it all. You deserve to be taken care of like a queen - and if no one else is there or is willing to do it - you must step up for yourself - until you find someone loving and worthy.
I wish you strength and calm. (((nickyinstant)))
Dandylife
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Dear Dandy,Violet, Ann, and Nicky,
Thank you for all your responses. This thread really helped me.Every post had s/thing valuable to offer.
Ann, I think your equations on shame, self validtion and self esteem are very simple, yet very profound.
As I validate myself more, I have less shame, more self esteem ,and need LESS validation from the outside.
I think you found the key,Ann, presented in some simple equations.
Love Ami