Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on March 12, 2008, 08:09:21 AM
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I have to rely on my Aunt as a person who is "normal". To me, she is as "normal" as *I* want to be, anyway. When I talk to her, I try to see how she negotiates life : her feelings, her needs,other peoples, how she stands up for herself, how she gives in etc.
I try to listen ,between the lines.My Aunt,my M's sister, stands as a beacon of dignity ,warmth and love to me. I say that aliens must have taken her up , raised her , and put her down b/c she bears no resemblance to my N mother(lol).
If she has a feeling,such as jealousy, selfishness etc, she attributes it to "being human" not "bad'. In fact, when I would tell her how I thought these feelings were "bad, she would simply say, 'That is silly, dear."
She accepts what I was told was '"bad", as simply human.
I see that she loves herself and gives forth love to others from her core.
She accepts imperfections,in herself.
She stands up for what she wants and needs,in a comfortable way.
She has put herself ,in order, so does not need a therapist. She has her 'id" feelings, which she accepts, as human. She can love herself, with her imperfections. She tries to live with values and integrity,but does not punish herself ,if she fails.
She does not have to be "perfect". She can be flawed.
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As I watch you grow and learn Am-I realize that our moms live in another realm but the part of their disorder that makes everyone question us is the freaky thing. I see it. I realize they are wrong. The girl at work who quit-SHE GOT TO LEAVE. She saw it and was not trapped by it. I think when we finally get to the point that we are not trapped by it anymore is the point when we go to the next level.
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You guys are so wonderful ,Kelly and Amber. I am feeling so shaky with my "new" self,but I MUST live ,so Scott did not die in vain.
Hugs to you Both, Ami
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((((((((((Amber)))))))))
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Maybe Scott's death will not be in vain. Maybe the fact that it snapped you into reality and allowed you so see life as it is-not as someone else defines it for you. Am-the only way to live is to walk away from the lies and the false selfs. We can do it. We are not who are mothers defined us as-we are us-the really nice caring US! I AM ME! YOU ARE YOU! WE ARE COOL! WE ROCK!
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YOU are so greaaaat! Kelly Ami
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Thanks! you too Am!
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I am realizing that being "normal" is having a sphere of influence that only extends to oneself. I have tried to "control" the outside ,people and situations, for a long time.I see that it didn't and WON'T work. All I ever could control was me. I used to know this,but lost it as I took on more and more of my M's lies.
So, I want to go back to being the head of me, only. Ami
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Ami,
Remeber that there is no such thing as 'normal.' Everyone is normal if put in the correct range. I would shoot most for 'centered' and 'useful.' Do you try to help others? Are you mostly happy? Those are the things that indicate what you want when you say "nomal," I think.
((((((((((((())))))))))))))
Beth
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If she has a feeling,such as jealousy, selfishness etc, she attributes it to "being human" not "bad'. In fact, when I would tell her how I thought these feelings were "bad, she would simply say, 'That is silly, dear."
She accepts what I was told was '"bad", as simply human.
Ami --
Years ago, after I returned to the Catholic church, I started attending confession regularly which is when I really started to get that emotions were not in themselves bad or wrong. Priests would get annoyed with confessions were people confess to just feelings...rather than actions born of negative feelings.
The priests consider anyone who confesses that they have jealously or some other emotion as just sin it self as neurotic unless we fess up to what actions our negative feelings might have led us such as forms of covert aggression; withholding, being rude, passive behavior etc..
Priests would say repeatedly that there is nothing wrong with our anger or envy, it is what we choose do to with our emotions or how we choose to process them, or focus them.
Gabben
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If she has a feeling,such as jealousy, selfishness etc, she attributes it to "being human" not "bad'. In fact, when I would tell her how I thought these feelings were "bad, she would simply say, 'That is silly, dear."
Well, selfishness and jealusy are bad. What seperates the well adjusted is they don't condemn themselves for having a bad thought or doing something bad. The well adjusted tries to make it right and learn from the mistake while recognizing that our value is not determined by our imperfections but how we react to them.
The N reacts to their imperfections with self loathing, camoflage and projection and they try to manipulate those around them into the same self-condemnation and inward shame. They would like nothing better than to have everyone on earth in the same prison they're in so they wouldn't feel like such anomolies.
mud
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Hi Mud,
Agreed with your post and appreciated it. However, wouldn't you say that it would be unwise to use the word "bad" when referring to emotions of those brought up by N's? N's deny our true expression of self from our earliest years meaning that for so many of us N survivors we thought that we were bad because our identity was neurotically tied into our emotions.
Another idea is that instead of saying "bad" perhaps we can now can say that anger, jealously etc., are negative to experience and can cause harm if we act on those kinds of negative emotions.
For me bad and good are judgement words. Here is another way of saying it. Jealousy and anger are not bad to feel but they can lead to bad behavior, correct?
Gab
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Priests would say repeatedly that there is nothing wrong with our anger or envy, it is what we choose do to with our emotions or how we choose to process them, or focus them.
Gabben
Dear Lise,
I really appreciate your post... especially the insight you offer into the workings of "confession". Just as a living faith and a genuine love are both verbs (in effect), so must be the confession of our inner hearts (I think).
Thanks :)
Love,
Carolyn
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Thanks so much for all the responses ,so far, on this thread. I have learned so much!! Love Ami
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Gabben,
Some of the thoughts that Ami mentioned are almost always 'bad' whether we act on them or not.
It is seldom good to be selfish or jealous and just holding onto the thought can be harmful. It is worse for others if we act on those thoughts but that doesn't mean they are harmless if we don't.
My point was that everyone has them, but that a healthy mindset recognizes the difference between a bad thought and a truly bad person. A well adjusted person works through them, weeds them out if possible and recognizes they are not the sum total of their value.
Saying something isn't bad when it is may be comforting but it may not be healing. The essence of the problem seems to me to be how we deal with bad things not using a euphimism for them.
If I believe bad thoughts or even actions define me as irredeemably or uniquely bad then I have work to do.
If I believe they just put me in the same boat with the rest of humanity and I'm trying to muddle through like everybody else while mimimizing them and their harm then I'm making progress.
mud
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*I* believe "bad" thoughts define me as irredeemably or uniquely "bad------Bleh. Maybe, I have work to do(LOL)?????? Ami
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Hi Ami,
For me, I identify the negative, or bad feelings/selfish thoughts as my lovable inner child acting out or the emotionally immature side of my personality. Think about children and how precious they are even when they are angry, selfish, or jealous because it is someone else's birthday party etc., we don't make them wrong for being immature...they will grow, if they are unconditionally loved. Therefore, I accept and love that part of me just like I accept and love the total sum of who you are.
Like muscles, I have to exercise the unselfish muscle to make it strong and there is no better way to do that than to make selfless sacrafices and practice empathy. Selflessness begins with action.
Also, the jealous nature of me rarely crops up anymore because over the years, through AA, I have practiced and cultivated an "attitude of gratitude."
Gratitude is an antidote for envy or jealously.
Everyday I thank God for all that I have even the simplest things such as running clean water and plumbing :D. I thank God for my health and for every bit of food that goes in me. It is amazing the warmth and generous spirit that practicing gratitude will develop in us.
Thanks mud -- I appreciate were you are coming from.
Gabben
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*I* believe "bad" thoughts define me as irredeemably or uniquely "bad------Bleh.
The key word there Ami is 'believe'.
I'm sure you know in some intellectual sense that they don't actually define you as a 'bad' person, especially a uniquiely bad one, but you believe or feel or are afraid that somehow they do, especially in other's eyes. How one goes about unlearning that belief I don't know, but it seems like it is probably the most important step in healing for those who were raised by Ns.
mud
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Love you,Mud! Ami