Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: James on March 13, 2008, 12:30:32 PM
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It hurts to post this topic, I feel like i'm the only person who has ever had this happen. I can't remember reading other posts here that address this and it's makes me even more anxious when i try and write about it. I didn't have a lot of memories of chilhood until this year. now i know why. Has anyone here had to deal with this issue? the shame that I'm feeling crushes me. It runs across my mind if i post this i might just leave here and not come back. Thanks James
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James, unfortunately this is a very common situation. Many people have to deal with this issue, you are not alone. Please stay, there will be more people here listening to you soon.
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Dear James,
Yes – I have had to deal with this. My F molested me. I understand how hard it is to talk about.
Sometimes I feel such darkness inside – as though I can’t ever let anyone know what was done to me. The shame can be crippling.
I was given such wonderful support on this board when I first started to talk about it. It has helped immensely.
I still have issues around this that I need to deal with, but it is easier now.
I am very sorry you had this as a child. It was not your fault, never your fault – the shame is theirs, not ours.
Peace
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hardtotrust.....this was hard to do but i'm still here. i've dealt with my therapist on this for awhile now. shes encouraging me to share my story with others. its maybe the hardest thing i've ever had to do. thanks James
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James,
Whatever happened to you was not because of you. It was because a sick, bad person did not respect the youth and innocence of a child.
If I were to meet you today and you told me of your abuse, I would only want to congratulate you for being strong and good and rising above it. Life is what it is. You cannot change what happened. But you can hold your head high, get therapy if you need it, and be the great person you are. You are not what happened to you. You are you.
I would add that I believe my husband was abused, mildly or otherwise, and has surpressed much of this. He is a great man and a great dad and even if he regained full emmory of an incident, it would never change my thoughts about him.
Lots of love,
Beth
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findingpeace/gratitude........thank you for your words they do help. sorry i would like to write more but right i'm a little overwhelmed. i hope you understand James
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Don't go away, Sweetie.
You are NOT alone. You are NOT bad.We know that here. No one here thinks any less of you,but MORE of you that you have the strength to admit the horror that was done TO you.
You were innocent of everything.We know that here. You don't have to hide, here,James. I promise. Love Ami
(((((((((James)))))))))))))
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James, PhoenixRising, I admire your strength in dealing with such painful issues.
(((((((((((((James, PhoenixRising))))))))))))))
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Dear James,
I'm so sorry that you were treated as an object by another human being. No one had the right to use you in that way.
There was sexual molestation within my own family, perpetrated by my ex-husband... and so I've experienced the devastation of such abuse from that perspective. Please know that you are not responsible for any of it... not a bit. There is no dirtiness or shame in having been the target... and these past events have no right to claim your future... or your present! I hope that you'll be able to continue sharing as you feel able and comfortable... and that you'll receive all of the support and encouragement we here can offer.
Carolyn
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Ami and to all who have resonded... i appreciate it so much and wish that i could answer each reply. Right now i'm so flooded with memories that I can hardly think. I don't know which is worse keeping all this in for so many years or letting it out......James
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I didn't experience it as a child, but as a teen and a grown up I went through two periods of sexual harassment that sent me for a spin that I don't care to talk about. Its a shame people give us so much to deal with and mess with people in such ways. Whatever happened, its not your responsibility.
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((((((((((James)))))))))))))))))))))))))) Ami
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Amber is giving such good and wise counsel, James... please take it easy. I know it feels at first like all of this stuff gains power as you let it out, but that's an illusion... it really begins to lose its hold on you as you share. All in good time, you will feel yourself getting lighter and freer of the burden. It'll be okay.
Carolyn
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Just wondering how you were doing,now,James? Just thinking of you. Hugs, Ami
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hi Ami.........I took a nap for awhile to calm down and i feel a little better and just got back on a few min ago. I wasn't prepared for what happened. I guess i found out the real reason why my story has been so hard to write. My worry over that was covering up something else. I always have the option to call my therapist shes taken a no of calls when things get rough and doesn't mind. Night or day. I also have paxil handy but i hate using drugs unless absolutely necessary. I'm ok just a little drained appreciate you asking James
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I think you are extremel courageous James.
I hope you will find that this is exactly the place that you can begin to face your story. Here you are anonymous, noone knows who you are or where you live or work or who your family or friends are. What you post here won't get back to anyone you know. Plus as you have already stated. You can post and then simply disappear. Or you can post and disappear only to reemerge as someone else. No one will know.
I admire your courage and I hope for you real healing, deep, soul soothing healing. And I hope that you find some of that healing here. It is a good place for getting the support and encouragement you need. And when it isn't you can disappear and noone can find you unless you want to be found.
You can post about this subject or delete this whole thread and never mention it again. Hang in there. - GS
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Gs....thank you for your thoughts they help. I guess i really am anonymous i haven't been feeling that way. Unless anyone objects i'm going to start sharing bits of my story here. I feel too onstage posting my story right now. Maybe some of the easier stuff and a little history etc. When I was 19 or 20 I had a serious breakdown and during this period i developed a form of dissociation called Derealization. My current therapist explained it as me trying to make the whole world unreal in order to avoid what happened. With it went most memories. It has diminished in intensity this year as i've really started facing a lot of my issues. I finally got up the nerve to ask my therapist if i had an attachment disorder and she told me yes. I never could really trust anyone. Recently for the first time i experienced the feeling of genuine intimacy and trust with her. It's one of the sweetest feelings i have ever known and its getting easier all the time. I have had all kinds of weird symtoms like being easily startled. It hurt for anyone to touch me even someone brushing up against me in an elevator could be painful. When I was younger i had a fair amt of OCD symtoms like counting etc. a lot of this has left. My family looks perfect to other people but they don't have any idea. I have two sisters and we were "coached" as children to never talk about what went on or else. I recently lost two longtime friends when i tried to tell them what happened. They didn't believe me and told me to forgive them and not tell them any more. They know my parents and said they thought i was lying. That hurt and made me angry but there was nothing i could do. My father can be one of the cruelest people i've ever seen and my mom is a narcissist big time. I figured out something recently. When I was 10 or so I was playing ball with him. I wated to impress him and asked him to throw it as hard as he could. I missed the catch and it knocked the breath out of me. I couln't cry and i rn over to him and he was laughing. I didn't iknow why but i rationalized he was scared too. I've realized he was laughing because he enjoyed hurting me and didn't look bad in this case. One time when i came home from school police cars were in front of the house and neighbors were standing around. they told me my sister had tried to kill hersellf by cutting her wrists. i went to her room and there was blood everywhere. I dont know what i was feeling, just numb i guess. I was afraid of what my parents were going to do fearful of my parents were going to do. I sat down and when mon and sister finally got home from the hospital my sister was bandaged on both arms. It took almost 100 stitches. My mom was so angry. i couldn't believe what she was doing. All she could talk about was how my sister embarassed her in front of the neighbors and how the blood messed up her carpet and everything. She was just furious. My sister was shock and so was I. We just listened to her rage. I always felt so dirty its a little hard to explain but i was obssesed with taking showers sometimes 5-6 a day. I really do have the connection now. James
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((((((((((((((((((((James)))))))))))))))))))))))
How horrible for you and your sister. Where is your sister now?
Can you write down a stream of consciousness journal to let everything out and then burn it? Maybe taking it all out and giving it away will help relieve the pressure.
Love, Beth
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Dear James,
I have been thinking of you. I hope you are OK.
As hard as the memories and emotions are, it is good that they are coming up and getting out.
When I first told my story here, I was shocked at that emotional storm that I went through afterwards. I had no idea I had so many emotions locked away. I posted my story, and went through emotional flooding that lasted about 2-3 weeks. I was raw, shaky, crying, enraged, and I couldn’t control the flood of emotions; they just kept pouring out.
Now I see that I had this core of emotions that I had locked down tight, so tight that I wasn’t even aware it was there. I told my story and it ripped the lid off those emotions and opened a flood gate.
As hard as it was to go through – a couple of months later, I feel so much better; cleaner and more at peace about it all if that makes any sense. It will get better James, hang in there.
There is so much good advice here – take your time; be very, very gentle with yourself; and try not to do it alone.
You did not deserve any of what happened to you. It takes a tremendous amount of courage to face the horrors of the past, and put them to rest, where they belong.
(((((James)))))
Take care,
Peace
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(((((((((((James))))))))))) I can only echo Finding Peace's wise counsel.
Please do take things very gently, at your own pace, and guard your precious heart.
Carolyn
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Hi gratitude.....Thank you for asking about my sister, it was horrible. My sister today lives alone after several failed marriages. Her only child, a son, was released from prison in Nov. after a conviction for drug trafficking. He is highly intelligent but completely unaware of his true nature. My sister is in total denial, this supported partly by the physical comforts that her successful career provides. thank you for your caring support in the last few hours. Findingpeace and Certain Hope....what you write is exactly true. I was flooded after simply posting "sexual abuse" I was caught off guard which is a rare thing for me. Momentarily i was lost in the chaos of my feelings. After a few hrs of sleep i do feel better and find hope and a better understanding in order to bring my nightmare to an end. Bringing it out of the darkness into light, i see only now, is a major and very important step. I see both of you have been down this road before me and your thoughts and care have been invaluable. thank you Hi Ami... I was worried that parts of my story might have triggered painful feelings for you at a time when you have more than enough to bear. I hope this was not the case. And if it was i am so sorry. In the short time that i have known you your hugs and constant support have meant so much, more than you might know. I wish you were here. I would love to give you a big hug now!! It's clear one of the greatest obstacles i had to challenge was the illusion of love my whole family carried including me. We all believed it and projected it out to the world and amongst ourselves. Nothing could have been further from the true. It was a complete lie a total brainwashing. Probably the most painful manifestation of all of this, as an adult, was my inability to form and maintain intimate relationships. Recently I met a girl i liked and she seemed to like me. We painted outdoors together for awhile and took simple walks in the park with her dog and just talked. Sadly i believe i drove her away. I've gained a lot of insight in the last 24 hrs. I see i have been pushing people away myself or they just give up trying to reach me. At the very deepest level of my soul was a core of shame. Total disgust for who i am from all that had happened. Selfhatred. I wanted to be loved but was so afraid of someone finding out who i was and being rejected. Plus how in good conscience could i hold my head high knowing that i had inflicted a disgusting person, such as i, upon another decent human being. In Alice Miller's thinking i essentially quit protecting my parents and faced the truth. James
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Dear James,
You are doing so well ,facing the truth. It is SO hard,but the "truth" IS the beacon out of the darkness, step by step. Please don't worry about triggering me. I want to face all the lies of my life. I think I already have faced most of them. If others emerge, I will face them and emerge stronger.
Thanks for your kind words and a hug right back at you!!!! Ami
PS I wanted to add that I understand the shame of not letting anyone see you. I used to have this really badly,but it is getting better , as I face all the truths in my life. Many of them are that I AM OK, after all.
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(((((James))))) I wish there were an easier way for you... but I don't know any other method than to proceed just as you're doing here... and I pray that you'll always have a soft place to rest when the time is right for that. You come across as having a very sweet spirit, James... and no one can rob you of that. Hang on.
Carolyn
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(((((( James ))))))
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Dear James
I did not see the post with your F and the baseball.
My M used to scare and shock me with smirk ,on her face. I ,literally, wanted to become a puddle and disappear that I could have a M who was this disgusting to me.I remember feeling so hopeless and so trapped that the person I had to depend on LIKED to frighten and shock a helpless kid.
I felt extreme hopelessness.
Knowing she LIKED to hurt me was one of the worst parts. If a person was retarded or had Tourettes syndrome and could not help it,it would be one thing,but the willfullness of hurting you for pleasure was really unbearable.
I am SO sorry, James, beyond words. Love Ami
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Hey James,
I noticed you say you like to paint. How about trying to express yourself through painting. There was this young girl I knew who was an incredible artist.
She brought me over an old window frame from a farm house that she painted on. I was shocked and the story it told was frighting to me. She on the other hand I don't think was aware of it. I believe she was releasing her true feelings in an unconscious manner.
It was of a little girl (in blacks only) I don't know what the artist term would be but she was sitting on the floor with her head to her knees and a Huge Shadow towering over her.
I asked, who is this in the picture? What inspired you? She looked at me like, What? She said it was no one. Just a picture she drew and I don't think she really consciously knew why. I did not press the issue.
Her father was an abuser. He would beat her mother. The mother would lie about it and I know she must have been terrified as a small child but she blocked it. I do believe this was her in the picture.
We have never spoken about it again but I sure do hope she continues to paint and release those inner monsters.
Love
Deb
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Ami.....I couldn't afford to know who my father really was back then but its clear now. I accept the truth but it still makes me mad all the things he did. It's very easy for me to imagine how you must have felt around your NM. Those weird smirk or eye disclosures from parents like ours can produce a lot of fear and all kinds of emotions. the child simply doesn't have the ability to fight back and understand in most cases. I'm still shocked that your mom is a therapist. I want to know more about what she did. Did the label of therapist strengthen your denial any? I probably would have though oh she really doesn't mean those things since she does so much good. Sorry you had to grow up with her. I'm thinking about starting a topic here whre people can share their thoughts on what makes a good/bad therapist. It might be helpful for people in search of one? Find your rage!!! James
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Phoenix....sorry its take me a while to get back with you. The most important thing anyone could have said to me right now is they don't think i'm disgusting. Conceiling that feeling of my self all these years has virtually destroyed any chances i had of having meaniful relationships. I hope this changes. Looks like were both members of "the big lie club". I'm sorry you had to go thru what you have. I sense you have been healing for awhile gives me hope by your sharing.. That helps so much. Well I don't know if i'm a very good artist but i do like to paint. I joined a plein air group last fall and thats where I met the girl I was talking about. i find that anything creative has helped me maintain my sanity thru all this. Its so healing in its on way. One way to listen to ourselves if we pay attention to what its saying. Thanks so much James
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Dear Carolyn.......Thank you for sharing what you felt about my spirit. in all the confusion i lived in sometimes i doubted everything including this. I think that came from keeping everything inside for so long and my rage blocked me from seeing it at times. Anger was not allowed in my family. I see its healthy now and its made me feel alot better towards my self to get it out along with my story. I didn't think of it but it really is something that people can't take away from me. Thanks for reminding me James
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Hi Deb.........I love to paint but not sure how good i am at it. My therapist has always encouraged me to paint as much as possible just for the reason you described in your story. I got into painting large abstract very expressive ones. The comments i got from most people were that they could feel a lot of anger. The art didn't lie and some of the people were truthful enough to share their feelings about what they saw.This helped me to eventually find that anger. Although after this was pointed out to me i quit doing them because I was afraid of what others would feel about me. I may return to a large format and see what my abstracts look like these days. Good idea, thanks for the suggestion. James
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I so admire your courage in opening up here. I cannot imagine how risky it must feel. But always remember that if at any moment you feel that you have revealed too much and have become too vulnerable you can delete a post or the whole thread.
Only once or twice have I done this. But the times I did it was because I had made myself vulnerable and either I got no response or the responses I got just completely missed the mark and it felt like what I had grown up with - so I deleted them. That gave me courage to be more risky b/c I knew I could delete them and pretend that I had never shared what I had shared and never have to explain why I deleted the thread.
I find this place safe. Twice I have gone away when I didn't feel safe and come back later. That helped too.
I hope you will continue to open up and let the light in and the healing in. You are courageous and you are on your way. I am so glad for you and send you enormous amounts of courage for this difficult but necessary journey. - Yours - GS
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GS....... I've experienced some of what you write about your experiences already in my short time here. I do understand your feelings. Sounds like most people here never experinced safety as a child and its vital for all of us now. After i wrote my story late last night i really wondered if i would have the courage to return. I'm so glad i did. People like you and others here make such a difference with your loving support rather than the hate i was fearful of. Only with my therapist have i shared anything. This is sort of dream come true for me. I do have the feeling of dread even going to the members story page. i don't feel i will ever be able to read mine again. thanks James
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I'm having some flashbacks today and it's very uncomfortable but i see things i didn't remember before. When i was raped i'm stating to remember the room and i feel this guy in back of me he has his arm around my neck and is telling me i can't get away, i feel burning flashes of fear or shame or something i dont really know what feeling it really is. He is telling me that he will tell my parents that i caused this if i dont stop fighting. i feel so much fear when he says that. It makes me wonder if i was more afraid of my parents than him back then. It makes me sick to post this because i feel like people who read it will hate me. I know thats not true but its just the way i feel deep inside and that feel has always kept me from sharing anything....James
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there is something else i want to share. Recently i made the big mistake of telling my parents what happened. They both just sat there looking at me and didn't say a word eventually they got up and left the room. Not too long ago my mom called and in a very sarcastic voice said "did that really happen" Her comment for a few seconds made me question my own mind. I don't think either of them believe me. I don't care anymore what they think, My therapist believes me, in fact she pointed out that i minimize everything that happened. It can really make a person feel crazy when your parents don't believe you about something like this. James
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James,
If you would have told me I would have not got up and left the room. I would of walked over to you and put my arms around you and rocked you. I would of cried that you went through this alone. I would of questioned myself why you thought you needed too. I would have hated myself (not you) for leaving you so out there alone.
I would have calmed you and told you (you) did nothing wrong. You were a victim and he was a criminal.
Then I would have went after him.
I believe you James. I can only cyber comfort you. It's not your fault and your not crazy.
Lots of love, James.
You can heal from this.
You can tell us anything.
Love
Deb
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thanks Deb
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I don't know what was the worst thing that ever happened to me. But the sexual abuse might just be it. I feel so much shame trying to share anything about what happened and how it affected my life in general. It's a private area and to be violated there and then have to open it all back up again sharing it with other people feels like i'm being violated all over again. I have noticed the more i share it doesn't seem as bad as it was. some days are beter than others but sometimes after opening up i find myself withdrawing again. it's hard being a man and living with this. I feel that this sorta thing doesn't happen to "real" men. It makes me feel somehow less of a man. This is one of the reasons i push other people out of my life. I feel so different from normal people james
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Dear James,
Part of having been abused is feeling great shame about being 'different". I felt shame about having a "crazy" M, when my friends seemed to have loving ,caring mothers.
At some point, I became convinced that I was SO different that I could not relate to people any more. I had to "hide" who I really was or I would be rejected and "shamed"again.
As I heal, I feel more of a connection to other human beings and more of a sense that I am 'like" them, rather than different.
As you keep sharing,just as you are, and see that you do NOT drive people away with your "terribleness", you will start to feel more a part of the human race(IME) Love Ami
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Ami......I know what you're saying is true. It's just hasn't taken root in me yet. I''ve got a case of overexposure at the moment from what i've written here the last couple of days. BTW I think you're great. I see the way you're still pushing ahead with you own growth while managing to deal with the loss of your son. You are a strong person. I admire you. Your support gives me more courage to keep pushing forward even when i don't want to. Congratulations for finding you rage at the H. I could really feel it. Warmly to you ... love james
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Your words mean so much to me ,James. Thank you. It,is also, really exciting to see you grow. You took off and are getting clearer and clearer. Love to you, too Ami
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Dear James,
This thing that feels like weakness is your strength.
Eventually it will all be one.
You will be able to tell anyone, anywhere, what you want to share, with no shame whatsoever (since the shame is not yours...it's projected onto you by others, the perpetrator, your family...)
And their reactions or lack of them, will be about them, not about you.
One day you will feel connected to, rather than just visited by, the strength you are building.
You laid the foundation by refusing to carry the real stone of a horrible memory alone any more.
It ain't heavy, when you allows others to lift it with you.
You honor others by allowing them to receive your true story.
And you honor yourself by choosing those others carefully.
Cyberspace is an excellent place to practice trust, without being in danger.
In real life, you'll be able to make those safe choices, too.
love
Hops
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as i've remember what happened i see that I've minimized some of the abuse. I was abt 15 and my grandfather was teaching me how to drive. It was just the two of us. He put his hand on my leg very close to where it shouldn't have been and just left it. I became very uncomfortable and thought it was just me. Finally i had to get out of the car. Strangely i remember thinking that by doing this he might could see into my mind and blame me for having those thoughts. How could i ever prove this to anyone.What i once minimized isn't so small. I never trusted him again even until he died. I don't love him anymore. James
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I don't love him anymore. James
thank god.
You are not obligated, by relation or any other pressure, to love those who are corrupt and would abuse your innocence.
Hops
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Dear James,
As I start to feel my feelings,as you did with your GF, and think my OWN thoughts, my emotions are starting to come in to an internal order.
I feel myself knitting, together, in a way that makes some sense.
I have been (and still are)like you. I keep 'forcing" myself to face the truth. Lies are what kill us ,not the truth. The truth can hurt and does,but it sets us free, and is worth facing(IME). HUGS Ami
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Hi Ami .......thank you so much for touching base with me today. For a few days after posting my story i experienced shock and was plunged into old dependency issues, Today i feel a little stronger and think of ways to tackle my problems. Your thinking on honesty is so true. Thats what I desire more than anything. Unfortunately my issues and the people in my life are conflicting in this area. Out of self preservation i have withdrawn from toxic influences as best I can. This to a large degree has left me in isolation but I feel okay with that as long as i feel safe here and with my therapist. I simply can't be around people that continue to hurt me by denying their own pain. Taking back control of my life is paramount this will have to take place on many fronts simultaneously. I have a question. Rooting out unhealthy behavior in myself is one of these. I am shocked sometimes to see what i do and sometimes feel badly that i find in myself the very thing i dislike in others. I try and go easy on myself. Did you ever find this true in your case and can you share and insight into managing these feelings of dissapointment in myself when I find these feelings. Is this a normal part of the recovery process? warmly James
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Dear James,
I have to LAUGH b/c I am going through the SAME thing, right now, seeing behaviors in myself that I hate.
I will think about an answer to that question b/c it is such an important one.I want to give it time and thought. I will get back ,later, Friend. Love and a Big Hug Ami
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Ami thanks, it feels good to know i'm not the only one dealing with this Big big hug James
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Phoenix... i am back on my feet and thank you for noticing. I'm very determind now. Just putting out what I think might help and asking for the support of others. James
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Dear James,
I have had a few things help me in healing. One was trying to be as honest as I could ,on the board.Other people shared their pain with me and I did not feel so alone and isolated. You are already finding that,I think.
Another was a person who loved me EVEN when they 'saw" me, the core of me. That really helped me to heal shame.Love is a powerful healer in whatever form it takes. Pray for God to bring love in to your life and be open to it when it comes.
Now, I am trying to put all the pieces of myself in some order ,so I can navigate life in a comfortable way. I want to be true to myself and caring of others, at the same time.Finding this balance is very hard when you have been abused.
I had given up on life b/c I did not "know " the rules. Everything seemed hard and painful. I was not taught from the Life" rulebook". I was taught to 'serve" my N M. I kept repeating old patterns in my relationships, wanting approval, being afraid of anger, selling myself out.
One day,I just gave up b/c nothing worked to get out of these patterns and the feeling of numb and grey.
Now, I am trying to put myself in order. My first level is character
.This is my values and morals. I always had them ,but my NM ridiculed me , so I felt ashamed for wanting and having them.Then, there is the "harder" part--feelings and thoughts.My M shamed me for caring for myself,protecting myself and wanting my own power. So, I have to slowly take these back. I am afraid to do it . I feel afraid that I am "bad" for wanting these things. I try to do it ,little by little. I try to be true to myself little by little. . I try to keep practicing. I try to be myself , as much as I can in relationships, as a way to practice living from my own core. I AM making progress, but wish I was already "there"-----confident, secure, knowing who I am . I used to feel this way, a long time ago..
The last part(hardest) is not to feel I am "bad(shame).
My M buried me under mountains of shame..The shame is the hardest part. We made a decision that WE were bad and we have to go way down deep and reverse this decision.The truth of ourselves is the answer. We have to see what they put on us and what is really us.This is where I am ,now.I am slowly seeing parts of myself that I like.I can see that I have parts I don't like and I want to put them in 'order" also. I think you were asking about this. I am trying to look at ALL of me, and come to an acceptance of ALL of it. Then ,I can chose how I want to act, although I will slip up, too. I do feel that I can love myself, a little more.I think the ultimate answer is that we are human ,not bad. We are the same as others. We were just made to FEEL bad and different. I am moving toward this truth , which I "knew' when I was younger and healthier.
I am moving on toward the time when I will be "up from underwater(facing life and myself ,as they are, not with all the distortions). That is mental health,IMO, when you can see yourself as you are ,good AND bad and see life as it is.
Love Ami
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Ami... thanks for sharing more of your thoughts and congratulations on your hard work. I see the growth as you share and that inspires and gives me hope. I'm not sure of any spiritual beliefs in me. I think thats because i felt that i was so unloveable that God would reject me too. Its begining to take hold that its been be me rejecting myself simply because of the mind distortions that abuse creates. I was trying to remember how i found myself on this forum. Its very hazy but so glad I'm here. It's only now that i can appreciate the importance of safety in dealing with all of this. I'm starting to feel safer here and sense that recovery is very possible. You help. My therapist called it o my attention a few yrs back that some people she has met have the idea that they simply have no right to exist. I was that way. I've learned to live on near to nothing and don't take up much space. I'm striving to find that i have a right to a little something in this world. I could even live mostly inside of myself if i could get all these other peoples voices out.... love James
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Oh James
I felt like I did not deserve to exist ,either. It is so pitiful. I felt like I did not deserve to eat ,or breathe. It sounds horrible to say,but I had those thoughts.
For me ,God has been instrumental in giving me a new paradigm.I was not abused in God's name . My family was agnostic. He loves me . I am His creature. He does not make junk, so who am *I* to argue--Right?(lol)
The deep feelings of self hate are horrible. I feel discouraged at times(now-lol). Sometimes the climb up seems monumental.However, at other times, I feel at peace and have self love.
My best friend says two steps forward, one back. This is probably human.
As I heal, I have the revelation that I AM human,not bad
I think that you are going there, James. I really, really do! Love Ami
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Ami I empathize completely. I had the hypocrisy of religion in my family. That stinks. I experience the same.... one step forward and a sort of retesting by slipping back. I did that the other day when i thought everything i had previously learned was in the toilet after being overwhelmed with a lot of feelings. Today i think it wouldn't have been possible for me to reach this level without my previous work and its clear that I still retain what i've learned. In essence i didn't drown in the cesspool of painful emotional turmoil. Thats a big step to know this is possible. .....Love James
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Yeah, Today I feel that the shame is so deep that it seems never ending.It must just be how healing goes--Right? I bet it is this way for everyone.
My friend says that when I share a deep personal revelation with my M, she cuts me off at the knees and throws the "shame brigade" at me---bleh.
Love Ami
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ami ....your mom and both my parents could be triplets from the same litter. Lol james
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ami ....your mom and both my parents could be triplets from the same litter. Lol james
OY! (lol) Ami
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here i go again what does OY mean and while you're at it IME too thanks kinda dense here james
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Oh, IME is in my opinion.
Oy is an expression of "OH , NO"(loosely translated---lol) Love Ami
((((((((James)))))))))
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Dear James,
Kudos to you for having the courage to tell! Hugs to you and to Amber and Findingpeace...
Bee
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Betelgeuse....thanks, its great to be ridding myself of this poison, I really had no idea James
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Ami...i was thinking over what we just shared and it came to my mind that i even felt guilty for having fun, That actually destroyed it way down inspite of laughter on the outside. Mountains of guilt and shame here. In the process of bringing out the bulldozer though. Best James
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Send a "dozer to my house, after yours , will ya?(lol) Our shame and guilt feels so deep s/times . I wish Papillion were here to join in on this discussion. .
Love, Ami
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LOL i'm even thinking dynamite now!!! James
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Bring it ALL on!!!
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Ami....did you read the post here i wrote earlier to Hops? My dad really was something else. He got me where it hurts at the most basic level of self. Do you have any thing you can relate to me from a woman's point of view. It really caused problems in my firendships with other men. Love james
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Dear James,
Which post was it exactly. I see the one about your GF with Hops..Write the number of the post and the thread title,so I can find it.
I don't understand your question. Are you asking me if my M treated me in a simlar way and how I dealt with it or what it did to me with regard to my relationships with other woman?
You are doing SO well,James! Love Ami
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Ami...goodmorning. I'm not sure the post# but in essence i was speaking about how my dad's abuse affected my relationship with other men. I'm starting to see that even here their are a lot of old wounds that need to be repaired. James
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Dear James,
I want to tell you what joy I have to see you emerge out of some of your pain. I see your 'essence" starting to bloom, as you have hope that you CAN heal. It is such beautiful thing to watch.
My M made it hard for me to trust women( and probably men, too).I was revolted and disgusted by my M. She would try to shock me, on purpose ,so she could keep me off balance, never claiming myself.
I was a very innocent kid. I didn't know anything about sex, homosexuality or anything until I was in sixth grade ,when my M gave me a book.
After that ,my M would shock me by saying things like she thinks she could be a lesbian . I remember that my stomach hit the floor . She would tell me about my F and her sex life. I had to scream,"I DON"T want to hear about it."
She told me that she was disgusted that I get my period early b/c I was like a "peasant", Actually, I wanted to put a LOL ,after that one. She was so stupid. However, she did these things with malice to frighten me and take my power away.
I think the key to trusting people, anyone, is trusting yourself to KEEP yourself safe. That is what I am seeing now and trying to do.
We were denuded of our trust,James. Of course, we don't trust. It is "normal" for what we have been through, NOT abnormal.
Keep on asking, sharing, and giving. You WILL make it b/c the truth will set you free, Friend. Love Ami
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Ami....what you said makes perfect sense to me. I'm sorry your boundaries and sense of safety were violated by your mom's own denial of her pain and suffering. But my how you are healing. You know, as young children the brain, keeps processing using the information it receives from the parents/ caregivers others and the potential for lasting confusion develops and carries with us causing pain until WE find the courage to see whats really there. We then have the option to share with others what we find and with this have the potential to help not only ourselves but others. Bravo to you!! Love James
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Hi James,
I saw your question to Ami, and hope it is ok if I respond as well.
I had a terrible time with men (both my F and my brother were very abusive when I was a child).
I had a male therapist who was wonderful. I fell into that one – he came highly recommended. It took a very long time to establish trust (I don’t trust easily – another legacy from my childhood), but he helped me tremendously and I think a lot of that was simply because he was male.
I still have trouble with males in an authority position – particularly those who are large (my father was a very tall, large man). But, when I remember to do a thought intervention (like Iphi was talking of), I remind myself to look to that person’s behavior to define them not my father’s behavior. (Don’t always remember, and can find myself very anxious in their presence – I do feel bad about it, it isn’t their fault, but sometimes, can’t seem to help it).
Take care,
Peace
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Peace......i'm glad you dropped by and shared more of your story and its effects. It's begining to look like i'm not the only one who has difficuties in later relationships because of the abuse. I also had great fear of authority figures. Thats changing. In some ways my experience is slightly different, maybe, in that i was in a strange way sexually abused by dad and emotionally sexually abused by mom. This has created much anxiety for me at times without an understanding until recently, I felt trapped in the middle with no place to run if this makes any sense. Horrible trust issues on both sides creating ultimately damaging intimacy problems and left me alone and i blamed myself for all of this until recently. I'm happy you're here james
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I was thankful that I did have some trust in men b/c my F was loving, just "wimpy" or else I would not be able to establish any relationships. I could see if you had abuse from both, you would have many hurdles to climb.
It is NOT your fault, James. I become "numb" around women, s/times . I can't help it. It is automatic.
Our defense mechanisms ARE automatic. I learned that, first hand , when I went in to shock, upon hearing of Scott's death, from the two policemen. At that moment,I entered a state of shock, with no will of my own. It was a survival mechanism. I could not cry or could not feel. I stayed up all night, with my eyes wide open, just staring ahead.
A similar mechanism happens when we get abused. We go in to "shock", I think. It is not our fault.
However, it diminishes our lives, greatly. We are "lost" in an unreal dimension,when we are in shock, for a death OR abuse.
I think that is what you are really saying with your inability to relate to men and woman.
You HAD to shut down in order not to go insane.
Compost what does not fit, friend. Love Ami
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Ami......i couldn't not agree more with what you said. I see it in my life and feel a little of the shock leaving slowly. I sometimes see the shock in my eyes with a blank stare of sorts. Our mind/body does protect us without our knowing sometimes. this leads me to see that early trauma still lives inside and continually activates and reinforces shock the adult seeks to escape. Ami, how are doing with the grief of Scott?...only if you want to share. BTW seems i'ved missed you today...love James
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Thanks for asking about the shock with Scott's death. Yesterday, I felt pain in every cell of my body. I had a feeling that I could go insane, too. It was scary,like hanging over the edge.
Today, I feel much better. I bet that your body and mind heals in small increments. I really could not take the sadness ,anymore. Today, I feel a peace that he is in Heaven and happy.
Last night, I connected with s/one who loves me and just that connection helped me to feel that life does have beauty .
Any form of giving or recieving love is beauty, even us helping each other here.
I have such a respect for the process of shock, now. Shock takes you over.. You are in an emotionally "dumbed down " state, with one "note"--bland.
You are in a separate world where nothing in the world is REALLY happening. It is all a dream with dream characters doing activities, but YOU are not inhabiting their reality
I went in to shock , at 14, as I said. I had many of the same shock symptoms that I do now, but much less.
I was numb, not real, inhabiting a "different" reality than "real" life.
So, we really cannot help it, James.
We develped in a "goofy" way b/c shock and other defense mechanisms take over, automatically.
Sending Love Ami
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Ami....let me share with you some of the knowlege of a scientic nature that i have acquired the last year thru my reasearch. The right side of the brain is the portion that deals with emotions but it not exclusive here only. When traumatic pain occurs, the brain represses here by the use of it's own neurochemicals the pain we feel. This is repressed because we can not bear it all at once. Thru time when we are ready these nerochemicals can "unblock" and then the original pain can finally be felt. It happens in stages only when pain is severe. Unfortunately for childen, because of their helplessness, their pain is extremely intense and life threatening. Its stored in this way because of its danger to the child. As adults were fear this pain and its reasons lie repressed and unconscious. When we are ready the neural pathways will free up old memories and then we feel the old pain we never felt in it's original intensity. This, as it occurs, leads to eventual healing and we no longer suffer from what happened. Anti-depressents serve to block pathways similarly as our brain chemistry does and makes it difficult to find the memories/pain which lead to a true healing. The oringinal pain has to be felt for the suffer to recover his life now. Does this make sense?........i do not take these drugs but have under severe pain for short periods....they are anti-healing in the long term IMO and others....... Bottom line you are healing as the orinal pain surfaces as it can.....James
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Ami.......let me give you an example of how it occurred recently in my life. Do you remember when i posted "sexual abuse" and i dropped off a cliff and was flooded with memories and pain. By challenging and moving thru a very stubborn fear. I essentially freed up repression and found the original pain repressed that i never felt as a child. This original pain rushed out freeing up old memories at the same time (flooding) and now you see i have a more relaxed attitude because my energies are not being used for repression of so much old fear. Now im starting to find healing but there is more to be felt and each time we challenge our fears thru action we find relief, even if painfu,l as the original trauma is FINALLY processed. This really is about the physiology of the brain.......... James
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Ami.......let me give you an example of how it occurred recently in my life. Do you remember when i posted "sexual abuse" and i dropped off a cliff and was flooded with memories and pain. By challenging and moving thru a very stubborn fear. I essentially freed up repression and found the original pain repressed that i never felt as a child. This original pain rushed out freeing up old memories at the same time (flooding) and now you see i have a more relaxed attitude because my energies are not being used for repression of so much old fear. Now im starting to find healing but there is more to be felt and each time we challenge our fears thru action we find relief, even if painfu,l as the original trauma is FINALLY processed. This really is about the physiology of the brain.......... James
I think I do this... as if sometimes certain things are so painful or traumatic that I'm just not able to process it and work it out like a normal feeling. Now that I think about it, it sounds just like my procrastination problem. I seem to file alot of thoughts and feelings away to deal with later, much like the housework and chores. I've been wondering about therapies like CBT and EMDR for those of us who get stuck that way. Often its as though I'm feeling nothing at all, or I'm feeling like its the end of the world.
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Darren.."often times i feel nothing at all, or everything seems like the end of the world" Those sound more like the emotions of a child. Shutdown totally or completely overwhelmed. I was shut down almost totally with the sexual abuse trauma. But when i stated to deal with it here i was flooded with overwhelm. Sounds similar don't you think?.... James
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Ami....let me share with you some of the knowlege of a scientic nature that i have acquired the last year thru my reasearch. The right side of the brain is the portion that deals with emotions but it not exclusive here only. When traumatic pain occurs, the brain represses here by the use of it's own neurochemicals the pain we feel. This is repressed because we can not bear it all at once. Thru time when we are ready these nerochemicals can "unblock" and then the original pain can finally be felt. It happens in stages only when pain is severe. Unfortunately for childen, because of their helplessness, their pain is extremely intense and life threatening. Its stored in this way because of its danger to the child. As adults were fear this pain and its reasons lie repressed and unconscious. When we are ready the neural pathways will free up old memories and then we feel the old pain we never felt in it's original intensity. This, as it occurs, leads to eventual healing and we no longer suffer from what happened. Anti-depressents serve to block pathways similarly as our brain chemistry does and makes it difficult to find the memories/pain which lead to a true healing. The oringinal pain has to be felt for the suffer to recover his life now. Does this make sense?........i do not take these drugs but have under severe pain for short periods....they are anti-healing in the long term IMO and others....... Bottom line you are healing as the orinal pain surfaces as it can.....James
Dear James,
THANK YOU for this. I never studied it,but it makes so much sense. So, when we keep facing the truth, we ,eventually, FEEL the original ,repressed pain and can heal. Is that what you are saying? It makes so much sense.
Your posts have really, really helped me ,James. Love Ami
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Ami......don't quote me on what I wrote. I'm just a casual reader of this stuff. A. Miller covers this and so does arthur Janov and numerous others. You can for sure find the details in their works. I guess this is the brain chemistry side of it all. As Darren mentioned CBT and EMDR are newer ways to find the old memories thereby reprocessing the trauma thru both halves of the brain hopefully with a cure. I have no idea if they really work or to what degree. Everything when it boils down to it seems chemical in nature. I don't know why i got into all this today except i'm just letting my emotions roam freely and they took me here. This is very important though in understanding the unconscious and the "chemistry" that seems to make it work in processing trauma. Theres a lot to it but i found reading it fascinating and helpful. I'm a big believer in ALICE MILLER'S stuff. James
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James
Had you read Alice Miller before Papillion wrote about it ? Ami
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James ,
I am going through s/thing .It seems like it would fit here ,on this thread. I realize that I must be my own mother. I have given up my power to my M.
I gave " myself to her . Now, I feel sick, even "thinking" of taking myself back. It feels so scary and "wrong". It feels "right" to have no self, no power, no 'choice" and be a blob of jelly that SHE can mold. I feel very afraid of having my own power.
I have a stomach ache,now, just thinking about having my own power( the audacity of me---bleh)
My friend was right when he said that I have to be my own mother, now.
That gave me an instant stomach ache--bleh.
When I turned myself over to her, I went in to shock(age 14), as I said. I feel like I am "killing her" or doing d/thing really "bad" ,if I take my own power back.
I hope that s/one can relate.
I think that this relates to this thread b/c when you get abused ,you throw away parts(or almost all) of yourself----bleh!!!!! Love to you, James
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Hi Ami.........to answer your first question. Yes i have read a lot the last 2 1/2 yrs including much of the work by MIller. Yesterday was sort of different for me b/c i got into a state where i think i was denying some feeling from being a little overwhelmed. I was talking more intellectually abt the stuff rather than feeling it. What you're describing seems to be something that i have found deep down as being the childs fear of abandonment when he tries to become his own self. It occurs especially around parents like ours because we sense as children but don't understand that our feelings are not alright and then it feels dangerous. I think this takes place way down inside.can you relate to this at all in the way you're feeling right now? Big hug James
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. What you're describing seems to be something that i have found deep down as being the childs fear of abandonment when he tries to become his own self. It occurs especially around parents like ours because we sense as children but don't understand that our feelings are not alright and then it feels dangerous. I think this takes place way down inside.can you relate to this at all in the way you're feeling right now? Big hug James
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Dear James,
This makes so much sense. I have a primal fear of being strong ,protecting , defending and caring for myself . I feel like I will "kill" somebody. I wonder who(lol)?
I feel a little better ,now. I talked to my Aunt on the phone. She is my compass for "normal". She told me that a person CAN have a peaceful life with love and respect in it. She told me that it was NOT normal to have all the craziness I have had in my life. I think that if I didn't marry this particular person, I would not have gone down this far. I really think that is true.
She said to trust myself b/c I have good sense.
It helped. I am going to change my life. Losing Scott threw a "brick " in my window. Nothing is the same, not I or anything else.
Love and Hugs James ami
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Ami...it is scary at times. But really you do have yourself somewhere down and you are lucky to have an good aunt to reach out to. You also have us here we will help as best we can. You've done the same for me at times when i was feeling similar to what you are now. Lots of times i get mixed up thinking that some feeling is about now but sometimes i find when i'm feeling the worst or just scared its about my feeling back then at a time when i had no one to help me. Reaching out to other people and sharing my feelings really helps it allows me to express old fears (lots of times i'm not even aware they're old) but when other people give me help by way of just aloowing me to be whatever is going on and do this with compassion it soothes the wounded child in me. does this make sense to you in terms of what you're going thru now. I was so cared to post this topic here you know that, everyone has been so kind and supportive. You guys allowed me something i never had a place to heal in my own way with feeling so ashamed. thatnks for sharing all of what you have. I find you a brave and caring person. I bet you're right that you H if he is aN did trigger a lot of you old stuff and it sorta came down into your reality again UGH. but now you are untangling it maybe for good.. ....Love James
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((((((((((((James)))))))))))
You have a BIG capacity for love and kindness.Thank you. I am feeling better. I see that I really DO have a compass. I just need to trust it, as my Aunt said.
Also, my Aunt says that she loves herself .
Also, I started a little 'program". Since I have been so afraid of anger, I am going to force myself NOT to placate, as a way to avoid people's anger.
I am going to stay "in my own skin", rather that run like a gerbil ,trying to make sure people are not angry. When, they get angry,I will sit with those feelings.
I started it,already, with my son.
I am going to "dare" anger to come and "get " me.
I will let you know what happens, James. Love and hugs, Ami
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(((((((((((((Ami))))))))))))))) keep me posted.........Love James
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one issue i struggle with relating to the experience of sexual abuse is this...there was an older boy who abused me for several years. I remember my body responding and i feel so much shame about this now. Sharing this is very difficult. It helps reinforce the notion that it was all my fault. It makes me feel sick sort of. I still feel at fault.. My reading and therapist has helped me understand this sort of thing happens, its just the way the body works even in abusive situations. Until recently i didn't have a lot of feelings about all that happened. I did find one day my terror that had been suppressed and i sobbed for a long time. My T has discussed with me that I was also probably without knowing it responding to any kind of affection since i had little if any at home. Now i realise how starved for love i was and it seems pitiful that i might have mistaken this as any form of it. This is such a personal area and my feelings here are intense. i fear others will judge me now. It all feels so unreal. Can anyone understand where i'm at?...james
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Hi (((James)))
Thank you, you are amazing. I find your truth healing, rippling through memories of the exact feeling of shame, guilt, nobody believes, or the choose to look away. How painful for you, I am so sorry.
Yes, it does effect every relationship you have. You can have one, a healthy loving supporting partner who sees you in love. I have one so I know its true.
My dh has been through a lot from my scars, ptss etc.
Trust is huge, it takes time and it takes a person who loves you enough to be patient, to earn your trust even when we ebb and flow with it.
((You are so special and have so much to give.)) I have received much by your open heart. thank you.
May your journey to full healing be surrounded by love and support. seasons
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Hi seasons......thanks for your support. It helps. I do feel like I'm "damaged goods" and nobody would want me if they knew what happened........James
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My reading and therapist has helped me understand this sort of thing happens, its just the way the body works even in abusive situations. Until recently i didn't have a lot of feelings about all that happened. I did find one day my terror that had been suppressed and i sobbed for a long time. My T has discussed with me that I was also probably without knowing it responding to any kind of affection since i had little if any at home. Now i realise how starved for love i was and it seems pitiful that i might have mistaken this as any form of it. This is such a personal area and my feelings here are intense. i fear others will judge me now. It all feels so unreal. Can anyone understand where i'm at?...james
((James))
Your therapist is right, that is how the body works. You are not to be judged, you are to be loved, helped, held, and told forever you are innocent, you were the victim, the abuser is to be judged, to be filled with self-hate, NOT YOU!
I think it is huge that you see you were starved for love. Your basic need as a child was never given to you. It is only normal to seek, justify any attention as love or kindness when we have been robbed and do not know what real love is.
Thinking of you, as pure, kind and brave. seasons
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Dear James,
You are so brave. You are going to allow me to open up even more deeply that I have. Your courage will allow many people who are
afraid to speak out ,to do so,now.
I understand that you feel very emotional right,now. You probably feel that you will be judged as 'bad". Your shame is probably telling you to "keep quiet".
Our bodies have a "life" of their own. I realize this b/c of my current "shock". It was involuntary. Also, my healing from grief seems to have a life of it's own, too. Some days, I feel so sad that I could go insane. Other days, I feel a low level grief.
So, what I am saying is a sexual response is involuntary in many situations.
Your shame is displaced. I know you feel YOU are bad,but that is a lie and a distortion.
I think you made the FIRST step to healing,today,by sharing that "false" shame, which FEELS so true.
I think that as you get responses which are true ie,it was NOT your fault that you responded sexually to a molestation experience, you will shed a layer of pain. I am really amazed at your capacity to reach out for wholeness ,by sharing your deep pain.
You are a hero!!!! Love Ami
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Ami/seasons...thank you both. Intellectually i know you're right but just sharing this makes me feel nauseated because of the shame i feel. I still feel shame sometimes even talking abt it with my therapist. I've never shared this with anyone else so maybe in time i won't feel so bad.....James
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I think it is natural for you to feel sick to your stomach,now. You have been shamed by the original experience and feel shamed by sharing it(even though it is misplaced shame, you still "feel"it).
I think that you should expect to feel very strange ,today. It is a natural feeling,even though YOU did nothing wrong. We, who are violated, feel the shame ,even though it is NOT our shame,but our abuser's shame to carry.
I think that you should have a"sick day" today, when you just realize that you WILL feel badly, shame, guilt, fear, fear of rejection, vulnerable, silly that you "told" etc.
I think that when you release that type of pain , you have a "rebound effect". You feel worse, before you feel better.
I want to assure you that I have so much respect and admiration for you. The shame should be WITH the abuser. In time, you WILL put it back on him, as I put the "bad" back on my M.
Today, try not to be blown away by the many feelings which will accompany your honest revelation.
Healing these deep types of shame issues hurts. That is why we never heal them,in many cases. I promise you that you will feel better and more free , soon, James. I am sending you prayers and thoughts. Love Ami
PS Sometimes when you get out in nature ,it can help these deep painful feelings, just to pet an animal , or go for a walk.
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Ami...meltdown #2 this week. I survived but almost ran . Started deleting topics. Still hangin though. Last year my T casually mentioned my M was a N. I found out what this was and it scared me. My dad is one too but with a seriously brutal side to boot. I'm beginning to understand now. I was like a small planet orbiting two suns, rather than receiving life i was drained of mine. Myself. Feels evil now.. i'm sure back then too. I have much difficulty in trusting anything i perceive or feel. Yesterday was no different. I had an important insight though (i think?). I believe that in therapy and elsewhere i've actually been trying to "fix" them by "fixing" myself even with all these psychological theories sometimes. This won't work. They shamed every need/feeling i had and manipulated me into satisfying their own. lots of other cruelty too. I had the strange thought today that just maybe there was never anything wrong with me in the first place, at least in the beginning. Maybe my "illness" is more a reflection of how i've been treated in the past rather than about who i am. New strategy = give them back this illness and quit "fixing them and others". Ugh one of those flaws! I had every right to feel betrayed, sad, hurt, unloved, confused etc....i'm beginning to think its OK to own these as mine. These don't make me a bad person they are natural feelings that occurred in a very "UNATURAL" home. They stole myself, my feelings, until i did not exist anymore. It's weird i've been living in fear of my very own self. I have another one coming that i'm going to take possesion of. MY RAGE about what happened. Those blankity blank B#$%$#@S. They haven't heard the end of this yet, in fact i really haven't even started..............I was just born into the wrong family the way i see it............Best, James
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Dear James,
That post was BRILLIANT!
You said it all, the crux of healing. I am just getting this ,now, too. The crux of healing,IMO(in my opinion)is that we became "abnormal" in response to an abnormal situation. We were and ARE ok. We just don't realize it. We were brainwashed, as cult members are. We were never "bad" or abnormal, in reality.
Our circumstances were so outrageous that we had to twist and turn,in order to survive. Under all the garbage is the "normal" us. We are as "normal" as anyone. We just need to keep throwing off the lies and distortions to get to the 'gold ' underneath. It is like an antique which is covered over with a layer of rust.. When it is cleaned ,it shines with beauty.
The "cleaning" process is facing the lies, just as you are . It IS hard and takes great strength, as you have been showing. S/times it gets overwhelming. Then,you just have to trust that "You shall KNOW the truth and the truth will MAKE you free." The truth does it, not you.That is your light in the darkness, the truth.
I am almost emotionally healthy. I am about 3 inches underwater, as I see it. My underwater analogy makes sense to me. When I was underwater, I did not think right. It was not my fault. I had "morphed",just as shock came on me when I heard of Scott's death. I may have diied ,if I did not go in to shock. WE may have died if we did not go underwater. We are not "bad" for getting a little weird(lol)
We can become as "normal" as anyone, with time, facing the truth and love. You give love on the board James and you receive love. These ingredients will make you well,in time, just as I am getting well.
When I slip, I get discouraged,but I will slip and you will, too.
However, the truth won't let us down ,if we make it our beacon. Love You,Friend Ami
((((((((James)))))))
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James--I've been on here before as Pennyplant. Haven't posted in quite awhile for various reasons.
I want to thank you for being willing/able to post about ALL of your feelings that are coming to the surface now. The mixed-up-ness of it.
You are helping more people even more than you realize. Including you, which is the main thing.
I remember when you first came on here. At that time, I figured there was a lot from the past that you were carrying around.
This is really, really, really hard stuff. Though the specifics are different, much of what you have shared here resonates with me personally. I would say you are further along your path than I am on mine, even though you have suffered from some things that I think would have destroyed me.
So, anyway, I wanted to offer quiet support to you.
Juno
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Juno......thanks for "slipping in" and offering your "quiet" support. in my head right now it's louder than quite. You are right, i was dragging the past with me. the load just got to heavy to pay the price anymore. Whatever you are dealing with you have my best wishes..........A big hug from me to you...James
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Hey Ami...............I finally got it!!!!! my eyes are open to what really happened back then and i'm seeing things in a different light today. Going to be looking for a 3 D mens group, even though i really can't afford it right now. i think i need to be in the company of other men who are throwing up the same stuff. Your support is invaluable. Thanks for hangin w/me. ps I was ok. and am now............a big hug Love James
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Dear James,
You are SO welcome.You helped me face deep pain in myself, too, and heal .
I am so happy you are getting in to a 3D group. You have begun the climb out. The board is always here, for help. I am always here, too. Love you and am so proud of you, Ami
((((((((James))))))))
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Thank you for the hug, James. I have been hugging you in my heart all afternoon.
I bet you will find many other men have been through this and they will be a great comfort to you. Just because something is rarely talked about, doesn't mean it rarely happens.
You've had a huge breakthrough and I'm happy for you.
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Dear James,
I think you've made a great decision to locate a face-to-face mens' group! You mentioned being able to afford it...
wow, I'd hope there'd be some available with no charge. Maybe you could ask through your local (county) community mental health center? Best wishes and prayers to you on that!!
Dear Juno,
It's great to see you, Pp... I've missed you.
Carolyn
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Thank you, Carolyn. I'm being tentative here so that I don't get "addicted" to the board again. My reading today, though, showed me that I have missed people here--I'm happy for the growth I'm seeing. The breakthroughs. Maybe I will have some breakthroughs again, too. Meanwhile, just absorbing what everyone is sharing. I'm so blown away by James and what he is sharing and learning. Everyone is supporting him. I love seeing this.
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James
I echo the above. A support group sounds like a life boat just waiting for you to jump in.
Cheering you on as you begin your journey, may you remember we are along side you, carring you when you stumble. warmth and love seasons
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Ami, Certain Hope, Juno and Seasons...........I'm glad you were all here cheering me on. It's made the difference i was looking for. I am amazed how well i feel this afternoon. I can even feel some of the dissociation loosening up. This may be the best i have felt in many years. I can hardly believe it. Best, James
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Dear James,
IMO, a group AND the board would be a great combination. I have been through many things on the board, good and bad. They have ALL helped me find my voice b/c life has good and bad,too, challenges and warm things.
Our voice has to function in it all.
You have had so much courage . S/times other people are frightened by courage. It happens in real life,all the time.
S/one who is "real" frightens other who want to hide.
That does not mean YOU are wrong, It is their problem, always.
Keep sharing. I know that whenever I am honest, people always PM me and thank me. Honesty IS the way to healing and YOU want to heal. It is that simple, James .
Keep sharing who you are! Love Ami
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Ami...thanks for you note. What you said is the same way i feel about my own life. It is a little scary at times but it keeps getting better the more i do it. You certainly have been a stong support for me during the last week and i am so glad you're here. I decided earlier i wanted to leave after a sleepless "last night" ,even deleted my story and a no. of posts. Just couldn't bear going over to that story page knowing mine was there. I do feel better about this and maybe now i can begin to put my past to rest, FiNALLY. Heck, i even tried to delete my account but i spent and hour and could not find the intructions to do it and almost felt trapped lol. Part of my "instruction-itis" disorder. Maybe this time it paid off for a change.......love James
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LOL---James.
I have to tell you I NEVER read my story and always want to erase it.I just pretend it is not there(lol)
I think you made the right decision to stay. Any group,anywhere, has the same dynamics.
Any group has people who "get" you , people who don't ,people who like you, and people who don't(usually for their own reasons ,which have nothing to do with you) and people who are threatened by you.It is the nature of groups(IMO)
You are here to be honest . That will heal you and that is ALL that matters! Love Ami
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How are you doing, today, James? Ami
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Catching up with your topic James - I'm glad you endured past your experience of crisis and decided to stick around. Hey, I think about posting my story, but I can't deal with it even in my mind. I have a lot of trouble even reading others' stories. You and everyone who has posted their own story - yes you are courageous and that is a courageous act.
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Ami........I agree with what you write. The hardest experience that i've faced is to become totally honest with my feelings and I can't imagine anything being more important. It really is the foundation for living well IMO. Its helping me to find my boundaries and differentiate mine from others.... in my FOO there were none and my feelings then and sometimes now became entangled with others. My parents hijacked mine and without them i was essentially directionless in life, feeling lost. Its changing for the better the more i am honest with all of them and i'm finding the courage to share them. ..................... James
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Hi Iphi..............writing that story was difficult but what surprised me were my feelings after i posted it. It felt strange knowing that so much of my trauma was "next door" and others could read it but letting others read it was not nearly as frightening as facing it myself....This is the most important benefit that i found from doing it. It's clear how traumatized i was during childhood......and still am at times.......IMO i think its an important step in finding voice . Just writing it helps to take away the power my childhood had over my adult life and i feel more free now.....even if it was only up there for a week or so..............thanks James
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Just writing it helps to take away the power my childhood had over my adult life and i feel more free now.....even if it was only up there for a week or so..............thanks James
Dear James,
This is what I was trying to express before, about getting the old musty stuff out into the light... because that's where it loses its hold over you...
almost as though it begins to dry up, and then the breezes can blow it away, like so much chaff.
Of course that takes time...
and eventually, I think the need to share our stories becomes less and less, because we're no longer defined by them.
Recently, I shared a bit of my own story with some people who offered no consolation. It was interesting... because I was not devastated by their lack of response. A bit offended, yes, but not wiped out. And I realized... I don't need for them to understand what I endured. It's enough that I understand... and that I won't be going back to that condition again. And that is true freedom.
Hope that makes sense, James. And on the flip side... just please be cautious for now about sharing yourself in the wrong places... because some folks seem to eat bad news for lunch. I think you are doing amazingly well!
Carolyn
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Dear James
How are you doing, today? Thinking of you! Hugs, Ami
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Hi Certain Hope.......thank you for your knowledge. I am one of those people who has to find out for myself before i believe. I sense when something is right but that has to be put to the test before i accept it. You were right with the observations you shared earlier. Now i see for myself it is true. I never want to go back to my prison. This taste of freedom is very precious to me. I used to put myself in harms way without knowing it. At that time i was without self/feelings. I see the difference now as i reclaim those. They are my guide in life, my way of sensing danger or other. interestingly, as i know myself better i see that at times i have ran or struck back at others. Now i recognize these behaviors in myself as protecting very old wounds that were triggered. Sometimes another's honesty triggered feelings of dishonesty i found in myself, or maybe unconsciously an event/person etc. struck old unresolved hurts mostly without me knowing it. I am sure there are many reasons but i'm beginning to see how all this works. I find it exciting. Thank you for your support and sharing the truths you have found.......James
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Hi, James,
I understand... and I think you're continuing to do amazingly well.
Especially, it's great to read that you're excited about the prospects before you :)
and I just want to say that your direct and honest approach is so refreshing... and I really appreciate it.. and you.
Sincerely,
Carolyn
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Carolyn...for me it seems i can best understand others by understanding and being honest with myself...do you find this true also? James
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Carolyn...for me it seems i can best understand others by understanding and being honest with myself...do you find this true also? James
Yes! At least, even if my understanding is weak, I can hear others alot better without all the fog of all my own defense mechanisms and hidden gunk clouding the view.
You're absolutely right, I think, James.
Oh, and on a side note - Another thing that's really helped me is to limit my exposure to input to a reasonable quantity. How much is going to be a really subjective matter to each individual, no doubt, but for a while there I was absolutely inundating myself with information... and the overload was wayyy too much.
Now I read a bit and then work it off (kinda like eating a chocolate bar and then exercising away the calories... lol) giving myself a chance to process what I've taken in before swamping it over with tons more stuff. That applies for me here on the board as well as everywhere else in life... whether talking with friends and family or engaging in hobbies, whatever. Balance. Sure has been elusive over the years, but finally feels like it's slipping into place! :)
Carolyn
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Carolyn....my feelings, i lost in the fear i had of my parents as a child. I carried this into the adutl life. Feelings are my sensors. I was afraid of mine and hence confusion. I sought input from others(a lot) and often they would without knowing or even knowing it offer destructive advice for their own sick purposes. I always struggled from this not being able to see it. And even if they meant well and were right it only worked for that moment, as soon as whatever passed i was lost again, an endless cycle. What an exhausting way to live. It's gettin a lot easier now since i'm in the process of recovering my own feelings. James
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James, just wanted to check whether I'm hearing you correctly...
are you saying that input from personal experience from others (like me) isn't really helpful,
because your own feelings must be your guide?
If that's it, I couldn't agree more!!
For most of my life I've been unaware of most of my own feelings, almost like running on autopilot... or maybe more like remote control.
I mean, I do like to hear other peoples' stories and views and opinions, but never to allow them to instruct me as to how I "should" feel.
Sometimes (like when tired or overwhelmed) it is a challenge not to absorb others' feelings like a sponge and even possibly try to make them my own, but it seems like that just takes practice to bring into balance, too.
Also, I've often followed other peoples' lead without having a solid foundation of my own more times than I care to recall, so I do know what it's like to wind up just as lost as at the beginning. Definitely exhausting... and demoralizing... and destabilizing.
Anyhow, sounds to me like you're saying that hands-on experience is the best teacher, and I agree... as long as we're in touch enough with our own selves to know whether something or someone is building us up or tearing us down...
or keeping us stagnant. One brick of knowledge and experience atop the next is the only way to build a lasting structure.
Am I following you at all or completely off track?
Thanks!
Carolyn
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Dear James
I have been on the board for a year and a half and you are making the type of progress in finding your voice that it took me so long to make. I think that you are ready to heal and you have the insight and willingness to be honest ,which will take you there. It is exciting to watch your progress.
You are following truth . It will lead you out of the lies and distortions which ARE emotional sickness in to emotional health. Love Ami
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((((((((((((AMI)))))))))))) you too love, James