Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: lfshadow on March 22, 2008, 02:41:54 PM
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(First - Sorry this is so long. It's my First post here.)
I was happy that I found this website, but then after reading the Intro/Info I’m not sure this is where I need to be. I’m not quite sure I understand this “philosophy”. This first part by Dr. Grossman sounds like something that would be benificial for me ---
"My main task is not to 'fix' you, but to 'find' you: the 'you' that existed before the pain of life, especially unfulfilled relationships with family and significant others, forced you to put up barriers, to limit people’s access, or to choose people who could make little or no contact. I am here to rediscover your unique, original self, to understand the compromises made to protect this self for the sake of emotional survival, and to encourage relationships where these compromises are no longer necessary…. Voicelessness leaves people in a bind--they desperately need to find their place in the world, yet their experience with significant others has taught them this is impossible.”
And then the first sentence of the second part really got my attention --
“ Why do the four questions emerge after trauma or loss? “
I did go thru a tramatic series of losses in 1996.
My little brother committed suicide in Dec. 1995. We were very close. My Mom died 6 months later (June 1996). And then 2-1/2 months after Mom died, my Dad committed suicide (Aug.1996). This all put me a very bad depression. I don't remember most of what happened for about 2 years afterward.
All together I lost 19 people & pets whom I loved in about a 5 year period -
Soon after the deaths in my family, the Man whom I had been with for 10 years started acting differently towards me. He didn’t handle my grieving well at all. I couldn’t talk to him about any of it. He would get irritated and angry if he saw me crying, so I had to hide it. He started ignoring me and eventually, as I realize now looking back, even became cruel and emotionally abusive to me, and I know I LET HIM get away with it. I know I should have told him to leave years before I did, but I couldn't stand the thought of losing someone else whom I loved. I’m sure he knew this and knew it would be easy to manipulate and use me. I found out later that he had fallen out of love with me years before he moved out. He was just using me. He left over 3 years ago but I'm still not completely over it.
During all of this I had pretty much become reclusive. I lost touch with all of my friends. My Ex also managed to turn my best friend against me, as well as others. So, I haven’t had anyone I could talk to about any of this ever since it all started 12 years ago. I started trying to associate with friends again, old and new, about 2 years ago, but they have not been very receptive. After literally having no one to talk to for a decade, I guess I don’t really know how to make friends anymore. I don’t really have anything to talk about. I try to be happy and upbeat around people. I never talk about the past. But I still can’t seem to make a conection with ANYBODY. I even tried online dating, but rarely, if ever, got asked out on a 2nd date. I don’t know what the problem is. I used to be a pretty popular and well liked person. I used to have parties and everybody I knew would show up. I tried to have a Xmas party 2 yrs ago and not ONE person showed up – NOT ONE!
I know that everything I went thru for all of those years changed me. I was a real bitch for a while, but I’ve appologized and I’m Ok in that respect now. I have aged 20 yrs in the past 10. My hair turned solid white; I gained about 45 lbs., even my facial features have changed (moreso than just the frown lines and crow’s feet). If I have no expression on my face, I’ve been told I look very sad, a perminant frown. Even my posture and the way I walk are different!
Nothing motivates me or gets me excited. Nothing really makes me happy – I’ve forgotten how. I’ve lost my strength and my passion for life. I am taking antidepressants and they help a lot. I am trying to get out and socialize and do things that I enjoy, (or at least used to enjoy). And I've been trying for several years now to find something that interests me, motivates me, or makes me happy, but I still can't find anything. I was happy and content until all of this happened. I had a fantastic childhood, good relationships with my parents and 2 brothers, and a wonderful relationship with a man I had been with for 10 years before all of this happened. But now I'm lost.
No one in my family had died, except my Grandfather in 1983, so death was something new for me to have to deal with, much less suicide, much less 2 suicides, or having my family all die within 10 months of each other. I had never had to deal with rejection from a man I was in a relationship with before this either. (Yes, I’m serious.) So after all of this I felt so abandoned, rejected and unbelievably all alone. I know I can't have my old life back, and I think I am just now coming to grips with that, but I wish I could find a new one, one that I like. I just don’t know who I am anymore, or who I should be, or who I want to be. I have no direction, no goals.
So, that’s my story – sorry this is all so long.
But getting back to what Dr. Grossman wrote --- He then writes:
“ Because in the subtext of the parent-child relationship, these questions were never adequately answered.” Lacking satisfactory answers, the person can spend their whole life erecting props—ways they can validate their very existence. They do this through relationships, career success, self-aggrandizement, obsessive or controlling behavior, drug or alcohol use, or other ways (I will talk about all of these in later articles). Loss or trauma causes the props to fall, and instead of tumbling to a sturdy stone foundation (“I had a bad time or bad luck, but I’m basically O.K.”), people slide into a vortex of terror, shame, and worthlessness.”
I do feel worthless and have some shame due to the suicides, but I don’t think that the way I feel and problems I’m having are due to anything from my childhood or my parents. I was happy, content, popular, loved, and had a pretty great life before 1996. I think my problems (depression, etc. & “voicelessness”) are just biproducts of my experience. Isn’t that a possibility? Or if nothing else, my “voicelessness” started and was caused by events later in life. But maybe this gives me an advantage because at least I have a memory of a past where I wasn’t voiceless. A reference to go by. Does this make sense?
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Oh my God! What a ride! Even if you are not dealing with an N you definitely need someone to listen to you and support you. We are a group of people who have been to hell and back so we are a good bunch to support you! Keep talking.
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Wow ,Ifshadow,
What a story!
You are very fortunate if you remember a good time ,in life, with love and acceptance. It should be easier to reclaim yourself, with at least some foundation.
I am in the unfortunate group of M's whose child committed suicide(2 months ago)
Life is a crazy jumble right now,as I try to build a new foundation, after the old one collapsed.
My feeling about your not having friends must be s/thing you are doing,but not knowing it.See if you can,objectively, observe yourself in social settings. Then, come back and talk about it,on the board. I bet you will get good feedback.
I guess, for me, the larger answer to everything is my relationship with God, first and myself ,second. After that , people whom I love should be third. If they are first or second,it will be out of balance.
You express yourself very well. I think you could give and recieve a lot from the board. I wish blessings on you. You have been through way too much .I am so sorry. Warmly, Ami
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Welcome, Ifshadow...
I don't know the answer to your question, but it surely seems possible to me that so much loss in such a short period of time might have brought on a situational depression/voicelessness which then began to grow roots.
Looking back on my own life, I've seen that what I thought was contentment and happiness was built on a very shaky foundation of lies and deceptions (both of others' close to me and of myself). In many ways, I'd been fooling myself, for years... but didn't know any different. It's been a constant battle, operating in survival mode, for many years... and that definitely takes its toll.
I'm so sorry about the great losses you've endured...
and I do know how very difficult it is to try to build a life when everything you always thought to be true is suddenly in question...
and I'm very glad you're here.
I never really even considered my childhood much, and its impact on me, until after encountering a pathologically narcissistic husband (now ex) who brought me to re-examine all that I'd ever believed about life... and about myself. Yet this group has been a place of new beginnings and possibilities for me, along with some solid friendships and new discoveries.
As you read and share, I'm sure you'll find plenty of commonality here, even though all the details of your story and the circumstances of others here don't line up.
Again, welcome.
Carolyn
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Welcome, Ifshadow.
That's a staggering series of losses, just overwhelming.
I can't imagine it wouldn't cause major exogenous depression.
So glad you're on Rx now...prescribed by a psychiatrist or counselor you see regularly, I hope.
I was thinking of refugees.
I wonder if you found some way of working with the refugee community where you live,
how that might help you, while you volunteer in helping them?
Sometimes losses are so massive that only others who have also have had such loss
can truly understand.
I am glad you're here.
For me, this place has bolstered every other positive thing I've been doing in my life.
It's a wonderful adjunct.
There is so much wisdom and kindness here.
Hopalong
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Thank you everyone for your kindness and your suggestions.
I have tried a few different types of therapy, but I'm kind of impatient about it. Where I live, I don't think we have the "cream of the crop" when it comes to shrinks. I live in a very small rural mountain community in the Rockys. I've been here for 20 years after moving from the South East, where my family all lived, except my little brother. He lived with me off and on for about 8 years out here, but had gone back East when he died.
I guess I was kind of discouraged by my first therapist. I started seeing her right after my brother died, in Dec. 95, but only got to see her 2 or 3 times before I went back East to take care of my Mom until she died in June. Then I saw her again (maybe twice) and ended up back East when my Dad died that August. I called her from there and told her what had just happened with my Dad. She freaked out! That didn't help much! So I stayed in my friend's basement and slept for 3 months before going home.
After that I just got some antidepressants from my GP, and pretty much slept for the next 2 or 3 years, so I'm told. Later I tried another psychologist, mainly for marriage counseling. That was a joke! Then I tried hypnosis. Now I am trying EMDR - and I think this may be helping some.
One thing's for sure, TIME may not (completely) heal (as they say), but sure does make life more tolerable! I remember whenever anyone said that to me right after my family died, I just wanted to take a swing at them. Oooo... it made me Sooooo Mad! because at that time I KNEW for certain they were dead wrong!
As for, "what's wrong with me socially" - I just don't have a clue. I've tried being objective. I've tried asking a few people, but they always say, "nothing!" I've even tried taking a tape recorder when I go out so I can listen to what I'm saying more objectively later. I still don't have a clue! The only thing I can figure is that I'm boring. I don't have a lot to say these days. I don't show a lot enthusiasm about anything. And I'm sure I've put up those "invisible walls", although I don't know how to get rid of them or even how they are affecting me.
If I know what the problem is, I can usually find a solution. But when I don't know what the problem is, I can't do much about it. It's very frustrating, not to mention painful at times. I've read so many self help books that I've "Psycho-Babbled" myself into confusion! I'm just so tired of feeling this way and being lonely. Sometimes I just feel like maybe if I could just sleep one more year.... but I ain't gettin' any younger. And I know that the definition of "Crazy" is doing the same thing and expecting different results. But I just don't know what else TO do.
Most of the time I feel like I am just a spectator watching my life go by.
When my brother killed himself, it killed my Mom and Dad. I saw it in their eyes. He was the youngest; exactly 14 months younger than me. I think if he had not killed himself, my Mom & Dad would both still be alive today! Mom had had breast cancer 3 yrs earlier, but was doing just fine at the time. Just five weeks after my brother died, her cancer came back and it was in her liver then.
And I still don't understand what happened with Dad. He just wasn't the type to do something like that. He called me one night and told me he was going in for minor back surgery in the morning and asked me if I would come back home and help him out while he recovered. Of course I said yes, and I was on the first plane out the next morning. I knew something was wrong as soon as I stepped of the plane. Dad had killed himself right after he got off the phone with me!
Something like that can really screw a kid up - even a GROWN kid!
PS - for the "M" who just lost her child to suicide, I am so very sorry for your loss. Being the "M" would have to be so painful. Out of all of the "self-help" books I read, the best one was called "Good Grief" - Please Get IT. It's very comforting and helpful and it's short.
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Dear Ifshadow,
I am the M whose son commited suicide. I will get that book. When you said that your M got a reoccurence of cancer after the death, I get how it could happen.
Other mothers tell me that the most surprising thing about grief is how physical it is.Right now, the physical parts of grief hurt so much more than the emotional.I could see how your M could not take another thing and her body gave up.
The tears,when I can even "feel"them are so welcome. I feel alive when I cry,not dead and numb with grief,which seems lodged in my body ,as a body depression.This type of grief is a once in a lifetime experience, I think. I have hope, Thank God, and things to live for.
I am finding that even a little time helps, a little. I am waiting for more time to help more.
As far as the social thing, I think you answered your own question. You said that you are kind of stuck in"no emotion" or bland. Also, you may be sending out signs that you are a "fortess".
What helps me the most ,socially, is to remember that no matter what happens with people, God loves me . I feel that in a tangible way. The more I feel God's love, the more I can show the love, which is inside me(and in all of us) TO people. Love is the ingredient that holds together relationships.
I think that even in a casual relationship, we all want to feel a sense of love. It can be expressed in acceptance of the other person .
If I did not have God when my son committed suicide, I would be undone.
If shadow, I think that if you stay ,on the board, you will start to heal. You can write about social things, as well as other things. You will get feedback and start to see yourself ,more clearly.
I am so glad you are here. You have a lot of insight and wit. I hope to hear from you more. Love Ami