Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Gaining Strength on March 25, 2008, 12:50:36 PM
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I am working on a thought experiment to get me over the hump and into my new life. There are three people whose philosophies or abilities I believe would greatly enhance my life. I hold these people in my mind and imagine them helping change my thought patterns from ones of anxiety, shame, failing and rejection into ones of acceptance, confidence, and belonging.
It has been second nature for me for some time to expect to fail, to expect to be rejected, to expect to be short on needed resources. I can actually change those "normal" thought patterns. Wayne Dyer, who is one of my three, writes that intention is a real substance that exists in the universe and that we can tap into it and when we do, when we set our intentions and begin via thought to make them real then we connect to that existing "intention".
I have held these beliefs for some time and have been working towards actuallizing them. It has been slower and more difficult than I expected. When I read threads here by others who have grown up with N parents and I see strugles which parallel my own I am greatly relieved. Some part of the shaming tells me still that I don't deserve to have a good life, to be accepted, to have friends, a good job, a social life and on and on. A big part of me still believes that and that is THE barrier still standing between me and "life".
I believe that these three people can help me move past this present darkness. One of the three is a woman named Agnes Sanford who died in the 70s I think. She was born in China to presbyterian missionaries and married and episcopal priest. When she was a young mother, still in China, a visiting priest noticed that she was suffering from depression. He asked her permission to pray for her healing and when he received it, he prayed successfully and relieved her of her depression. That was the beginning of her amzing life of healing. She found it easiest to heal children because they could believe with her more readily. She used visualization techniques, the technique that is used by many people in many different arenas. Norman Vincent Peale uses visualization.
I have tried for some time but my ability to visualize life the way I long it to be is somewhat limited. So I am going to put all my determination behind creating that image and sustaining it.
I come here because it is here that I feel connected, connected the way we should have all felt with familiy and friends - the connection that I lost at the end of my 20s, the loss which I finally understand was due in great part to my anger and resentment that grew out of the dark shadow shaming and scapegoating.
I am more comfortable in the shadows of shame and scapegoating and that is tradgic. I choose to move into the comfort of being loved and included and encouraged and energized and capable of using my mind to create great ideas and follow through on these ideas and bring them to fruition.
I have to overcome that big block. I must believe that I deserve someting better.
The best book and changing thoughts and thereby changing reality is Jeffery M. Schwartz's "The Mind the Brain". He lays out the thought process for overcoming OCD. He has had great success with patients. If OCD patients can do it so can I.
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Dearest GS - I have the same shames - not worthy of a good life or peace or good friends. I have used visualization, but something has blocked me now for years from making a reality out of my visions. I used to believe I was "cursed", that God hated me, and had picked me to make an example of. I've never told anyone that before.
Now I understand what the damage from the abuse and growing up cut in half by NPs has wrought. So I am changing my thinking gradually to believing that, with as much damage as I sustained, I am lucky to even be finding my other half-self, let alone to still be alive.
Kate
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GS,
I think more than visualizing... you need to DO it. Fake it 'til you make it... really.
I would stop reading as much - you have all the information you need. Really!!
So now you need to just override any thoughts you know are wrong and live the way you want/need to.
You can play basketball in your mind forever, but you won't build skills until the ball is in your hand.
Lots of love GS,
Beth
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Dearest GS - I have the same shames - not worthy of a good life or peace or good friends. I have used visualization, but something has blocked me now for years from making a reality out of my visions. I used to believe I was "cursed", that God hated me, and had picked me to make an example of. I've never told anyone that before.
Now I understand what the damage from the abuse and growing up cut in half by NPs has wrought. So I am changing my thinking gradually to believing that, with as much damage as I sustained, I am lucky to even be finding my other half-self, let alone to still be alive.
Kate
ToWrite. Thank you for sharing this "I used to believe I was "cursed", that God hated me, and had picked me to make an example of. I've never told anyone that before. " I continue to be astonished by the depths of the damage done by my FOO. Although I had tremendous insight into the damage at a young age I could not really believe it because I had been taught that I was responsible for all the bad in my life and that created a crazy "loop" in my thinking. "My parents have been horrid to me but if they were then it is only because I am so wretched that I deserved it and poor them for having such a wretched beast as a daughter to make their lives so miserable that they are horrible towards me." Sort of kind of thinking. No way around the fact the I am the real problem.
I have been blocked for years from even being able to generate an image of what I want my world to look like. I finally got a break through today. I know that I couldn't do it because I had been blocked by that overwhelming sense of not deserving. Even having lived it my whole life I an constantly astonished by how horrendous the Ns damage is.
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you need to DO it.
LOL Grat - that's so true. It really is a matter of doing it. I'm so close. I'll keep your advice in mind - as I DO it.
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Phoenis Rising - what a fascinating post. There is so much in what you have written. I want to process it before I post.
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GS,
I swear, other people are so much brighter than me when it comes to picking out what is important in a post. It is wonderful that you had a vision of what can be (and what IS for normal people). We really do have to swim to the top of the sea to view the world. It took me sobriety to see the world. I was so angry about being a drunk, but it gave me the vision I needed to see my life as it was and could be. You have made it GS! You will get more and more comfortable as you venture into new situations and are pleasantly surprised by the results. When I learn a new language, I go out intoa store and use my small array of words. When they work, I am so happy. I overridde my fear and embarrassment, and learn that Step A works. And then I can move along one more step.
((((((((((((((((((((((GS)))))))))))))
Love, Beth
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Dear GS,
I will walk step by step, with you, as you change. I am going to get that book, also.
I have changed ,recently.
I think that we s/how have to find a way to let love in. Love burns away the shame. The shame tells us we must hide. Love tells we ARE ok. We do not have to hide. We can be "real". Then, when we are real, we find that we never had to hide in the first place. We were not "bad"
Have you ever seen Rexella Van Impe? She is the wife of Jack Van Impe, a prophecy teacher.She talks about how loving her mother was. Then, Rexella had an NDE .She is just filled with love.She embodies it.
Often ,people who have NDE's seem to have replaced fear with love.
I think fear is a big root for why we hide(shame).
We are afraid we will be humiliated, rejected, scorned. We, who have been abused, have been hurt up to the brim. We don't have extra "hurt" room.
If we can let love in, in whatever form, I think a few drops of love can heal what an ocean of intellectual knowledge cannot.
*I* love you,GS, (for one) Ami
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The shame and resulting anxiety have been life crippling. I am moving past this I am believing this and holding it to be true and developoing an image of what it looks like. I am overcoming this anxiety by holding onto the image of what it feels like to fully open to the love of Christ. I am using this to overcome my fear/anxiety about life in general. Just posting to make it concrete.
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Dear GS,
You know of people like Smith Wigglesworth who took Scriptures and "bellieved that they would "actually" work. On the cover of his book, he has a quote,'I have enough audacity to ACTUALLY believe that God will do what he says."
I am a poor example of a follower of Jesus, ,but that does not mean that the promises won't work.
Perfect love casts out fear is one of the main ones to get rid of fear.
I have had a few, very few ,times when I was filled with God 's love and I was at peace.
I am with you, on your journey, GS. Love Ami
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The shame and resulting anxiety have been life crippling. I am moving past this I am believing this and holding it to be true and developoing an image of what it looks like. I am overcoming this anxiety by holding onto the image of what it feels like to fully open to the love of Christ. I am using this to overcome my fear/anxiety about life in general. Just posting to make it concrete.
Me, too, GS... holding onto the image of what it feels like to fully open to the love of Christ... and also, by faith, holding onto the assurance that He has made me a new creation in Him, believing that there is so much that's been freely laid at our feet... if only we will learn to receive it.
Also I'm believing with you that you most definitely deserve something better... that you were specially and uniquely designed, with loving care, for a wonderful future.
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
With love,
Carolyn
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GS,
I'm struggling so much to get beyond survival mode. Threads like these offer some perspective.
Bee
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You know of people like Smith Wigglesworth who took Scriptures and "bellieved that they would "actually" work.
Ami, I am convinced that it is in the "audacity to believe" that makes it come through. Doubt is the thing that takes it away. Belief in that for which there is no evidence is faith. I am definitely believing. It doesn't mean that I don't still have some things to work through. I have learned that each rung I ascend brings me face to face with some of the same processes and often feels like I'm starting over but it is always a new height that I am reaching.
I find it only safe to share here because in the 3D world people not only don't understand, many actually have aneed to sabotage out of their own great insecurity and their philosophy that there is a finite amount of "good life" and every bit I get is less for them. I believe that there is plenty and that we can all have more happiness if we bring others along into our world of happiness.
Thanks CH for that Jeremiah verse. It is one I am familiar with and it is a wonderful affirmation. I think I will memorize it and carry it with me.
Betelgueuse. I am surprised to here that you are struggling to get beyond survival mode. I hear such strength and understanding and determination in your voice. I suspect that you are in a place in your journey that is close, very close to getting some kind of a break through. I know that when I first came here I was most definitely in survival and in some ways I have not seen much change in my outward life but an enormous growth in my inner life and I believe the outward changes are very near indeed.
yours - Gaining Strength
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Hi GS, what a wonderful thread. I relate so much to your thread. I do nelieve in positive thinking and that life will reflect to us what we bring to life. And the most important we bring is our attitud. And attitud is a product of our thoughts, toughts can create the future. Ant predomint thought in our brain can become out attitud. That is why we cannot sleep walk through life and we need to be aware of our thoughts and feelings.
Positive thining as good effects. I am starting with affirmations. Not that I comply everyday, but I am trying. Also mirror work is good. Thank you for this thread. I am going to start my mirror work today.
Love to you.
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Dear GS,
You know of people like Smith Wigglesworth who took Scriptures and "bellieved that they would "actually" work. On the cover of his book, he has a quote,'I have enough audacity to ACTUALLY believe that God will do what he says."
I am a poor example of a follower of Jesus, ,but that does not mean that the promises won't work.
Perfect love casts out fear is one of the main ones to get rid of fear.
I have had a few, very few ,times when I was filled with God 's love and I was at peace.
I am with you, on your journey, GS. Love Ami
Hi Ami,
I remember reading the book about Smith Wigglesworth and was in awe of his simple faith.
Smith Wigglesworth simply believed the Word of God and lived it -- he did it!! NO steps or keys programme or endless books, just the Bible!!
He was not an educated man, his dear wife Polly taught him much, as I recall.
Awesome.
Grateful for the reminder, as I read the book soon after I was saved and that seems such a long time ago now, and sometimes, I truly feel that I have lost sight of the pure simplicity of the Gospel.
Love & Blessings,
Leah
Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.
This verse has been an anchor for so many years now - it is one of several bookmarkers - the words of which are held close to my heart of faith.
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Wonderful thread, GS, and you have done wonderful work.
I have to say that Beth's first post was the most powerful response for me...
There's a thing Martin Seligman (author of Learned Optimism) called rumination. Women "ruminate" more than men do, hence, women are more prone to intractable depression.
I think there are stretches in life where a great deal of thinking/reading/analysing must be done, to help us understand what our issues are, to see the shape of our brokenness and our wholeness. The more vivid these pictures, the better.
But then, when you know you really have seen clearly, it is time to direct the mind toward the next action.
Years can be lost in rumination. It's important to know how to keep a balance between introspection/reflection and action. It's not that I'll ever stop thinking, but I need to learn to suspend it, set it gently aside, and find I am doing a chore in a peaceful way. Or connecting in 3D with a person in a peaceful way.
love
Hops
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Dear Leah,
The words of the Bible are filled with supernatural power. One Scripture can heal you--just like that--IF you believe. Norman Cousins healed cancer with laughter by taking the Scripture"A merry heart doeth good like a medicine"
I, am almost ,healed by taking,"You shall know the truth and the truth will MAKE you free."
I am a poor "witness" for God b/c I am so fearful, but people should look to Him, not me.
S/times ,I don't even like to say I am a follower of Jesus b/c I make Him look bad(LOL)
I am glad that my post encouraged you,Leah. Love to you, Ami
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Dear GS,
How are you doing, today? i am thinking of you. I had another "healing" last night. I realized that I was always playing out "being weak" b/c that was the ONLY way I got love from my M. I got punished when I was strong---bleh. What a freaking set up that was.
I had to undermine my own strength all the time and continued on with it. I was programmed to give away ALL that I valued and held dear, my integrity and character. I had to give it up ,on her altar.
All for her, all my lifeblood for her, the voracious eater, like a pac man ,devouring you, from the inside out, the Vaknin zombie.
Now, I have to claim my strength.
Thinking of you, GS. You are in my mind, often,as an encourager and a wonderful friend. Love Ami
(((((((((GS)))))))))00
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Thanks for asking Ami. I am at a real breakthrough. I am on the cusp about to plunge through.
I was able to break through the anxiety and fear and shame and hold it for most of the day. Every now and then I found myself slip back but was able to regroup and rise above the darkness. This is the key - to hold onto what I want to be as though it already is. That is what so many from such varying perspectives have all written of. After years and years of trying to get there I have broken the shell and am moving in.
It's a high five moment for me. I'm working from the end - sitting back without shame or fear and letting it all come into being.
This place and this place alone has allowed me to get beyond the bitterness and insanity of the N parents. I am almost to a point of getting completely beyond reaction to their horridness. Now that is freedom!!!
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GS,
You sound SO good.You are doing what the Bible says. You are believing spiritual truths and then they will become manifest in the physical world. Your faith(belief) causes your beliefs to manifest.That is a simple principle of the Bible. Why don't *I* remember it-lol?
We are already whole,in the spiritual dimension. IF we believe THAT and keep believing even when we don't "see", it, it WILL manifest in the physical world, in time.Great Healers knew this.
I really need to hear myself say it GS.As I am writing it, I am realizing HOW true it is.
You will get there,if you prevail b/c we have promises of wholeness if we will take them. I am by your side, GS. Love Am
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Hops is so right about women ruminating more than men... I see it so clearly in my husband. He had a ton of yucky stuff in childhood too, and he has put it to rest. It doesn't cross his mind much or bother him overall. I wish I could be like that!!!!!
GS, I am so happy to see you are falling off the plateau!!! This board gives everyone so much hope - there is so much movement towards a healthful, positive life here, whether we are NC or remain in some sort of relationship.
Love, Beth
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I am almost to a point of getting completely beyond reaction to their horridness. Now that is freedom!!!
That is AMAZING and wonderful, GS...I am so impressed.
So happy for you!
(Send me some of your magic dust, for dealing w/brother, okay?)
love,
Hops
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Yes I will send you that magic dust. You put up a shield so that what ever he says that appears to create chaos simply does not penetrate, in fact you simply cannot hear it. I am definitely going to use a thought process to send that magic dust and to cover you with it. You are mentally stronger than he and actually in a morally superior position. He will be rustrated but you can't be bothered by that - perhaps compassionate but not bothered.
I'm sending magic dust to protect you and shield you. Let me know if it works.
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Another good day. The house is a wreck but I actually got a good bit done. I have found a way to shut down the shame. I have a vision of how things are going to be and when the shame starts in I just set my mind against it. The more I shut out the shame the more I focus on the vision of what should be then the other things are just beginning to fall into place.
I'm thankful after all this time it feels like a miracle. My work is going to be sustaining it. I think I can do that.
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Yes, GS
You have done the harder part of breaking old patterns. It is easier to maintain your growth than get there ,in the first place.You are an inspiration for me. When I want to give up, I think of you . You keep on. When you fall down, you get up.
The essential "you" does not have shame or any other maladaptive characteristics.
All that garbage is not part of the real "you". The real 'you" is who God sees. Your spirit is what He sees. That is fine. It has no shame or pain.It is complete. You ( and I ) need to believe and recieve that! Love Ami
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Day 3 or 4. A more difficult day today but I think I have found a way to keep my mind in the right thought pattern - ignoring the struggle that I find myself in right now and keeping my mind on the outcome I have set for myself.
I won't let myself be caught up in dispair - I'm keeping my eye on what is good and desirable.
I read an interesting article yesterday that described the difference between pain and suffering as pain being the hurt from an initial experience and suffering being the continuation of that pain long beyond the incident. The article went on to say that we cannot control the pain but we can control the suffering. I am finally - after a good bit of initial healing - able to take advantage of controlling my thoughts and not sliding down into dispair when things go poorly. It is not easy but I can do it and I will continue to practice is over and over until it is the norm for me. -
Just posting to help keep my mind where it must be. - GS
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Day 5? Same place sort of. Struggling but not giving up the battle. I think that as I face more and more of my own self-criticism I am getting stronger. In the past this has been very, very painful - too painful but I have found the strength to not back down this time. I see people are reading this thread but noone is commenting. If anyone has some encouragement to offer I would welcome it. Thanks - GS
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Hi GS, I am just reading your topic right now after a weekend away and I am thinking how much I encourage and support you with all my heart and will! I find what you are doing both personally inspiring and really, how to express it, fresh. Like a wind blowing through a dusty attic and blowing in new air and change. I love it that you are confronting the self-criticism and supporting your son to confront it too.
Right away reading this topic raised my interior awareness about recent struggles with self-criticism that have gone on sort of underneath my conscious awareness. It seems that a big part of the battle is about how incredibly familiar it is. This is the air I've been breathing - a self-limiting, possibility destroying, blighting, criticizing, belittling air. I may not have built this mental room, but I inherited it and enforced it. And I want out.
Not to go into my personal beliefs too much, but I have made a choice to believe that whatever we can accomplish, whatever progress we make no matter how incremental, or how many setbacks, changes our future for the better. I believe in an unlimited future that is shaped by our present. And I believe even our greatest setbacks and failures or deficits (even the deficits of an N) will ultimately work toward our liberation from those confining bonds. I came to this because my dad is such a nihilist and that nihilism had me under for some years and to avoid a long story, I came to a personal philosophy of meaning and positivity that I can by no means prove, but allows me to live my life with purpose, meaning, heart and compassion. And elbow grease. At a minimum, it's an outlook that helped me quit smoking.
Now getting back to you GS, given my personal perspectives as explained above, what you are doing is just about as exciting as it could be!! You are claiming your power and walking step by courageous step. I know how hard it is and you are sharing some things that I have not even yet attempted and it is also giving me new ideas about how to proceed with some things that are discouraging me right now. Basically my personal deficits are really in my face right now and some ways that I have taken on straight from the N have surfaced in my roles as wife and mom - very upsetting - to see myself acting like my dad. Just like a bathroom that needs scrubbing, I can see the work is cut out for me. Forgive my rambling and stream of consciousness and hope it is encouraging, energizing and lifts you up!
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I am thinking how much I encourage and support you with all my heart and will! I find what you are doing both personally inspiring and really, how to express it, fresh.
Thank you so much Iphi. It is so nice to read such words of encouragement. It still astounds me that I can come to this place where gather people strangers to one another, and here I receive that which I and all humans need (encouragement) but which I could never and have never received from those people closest to me.
a self-limiting, possibility destroying, blighting, criticizing, belittling air. I may not have built this mental room, but I inherited it and enforced it. And I want out.
I'm with you sister. I want out too, and I mean to get there.
Not to go into my personal beliefs too much, but I have made a choice to believe that whatever we can accomplish, whatever progress we make no matter how incremental, or how many setbacks, changes our future for the better. I believe in an unlimited future that is shaped by our present. And I believe even our greatest setbacks and failures or deficits (even the deficits of an N) will ultimately work toward our liberation from those confining bonds. I came to this because my dad is such a nihilist and that nihilism had me under for some years and to avoid a long story, I came to a personal philosophy of meaning and positivity that I can by no means prove, but allows me to live my life with purpose, meaning, heart and compassion. And elbow grease. At a minimum, it's an outlook that helped me quit smoking.
I love to read your beliefs. They make sense to me. Your successful experience with your philosophy is really all that matters. Success says alot in this struggle.
Forgive my rambling and stream of consciousness and hope it is encouraging, energizing and lifts you up!
I have seen my N father creep into my personality as well. It is very, very disappointing but I am finding my way out of that. The most exciting thing for me right now is finding my way past yet another level of shame. I am simply profoundly thankful.
Thanks so much for your response. It is a true encouragement. It helps me not feel so lonely on my journey. - Yours - Gaining Strength
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Dear GS,
Just thinking of you,today.
We are on the same path, trying to modify old messages ,which do not make sense,(and never did). I have been having some strange days ,as I change.
Today, I see,more, that we are 'human",not "bad".
My Aunt is as "bad" as we are, but she sees herself as "human' and so she does not give herself"bad" messages, as we do.
My Aunt says,"Ami, dear, WHAT is it that you think is "bad"?*I* know you and you are NOT "bad".
I try to explain that I was conditioned to think that ANY needs or wants were "bad"(selfish).
She says "That is silly,dear."
GS, WE are fine. It was just the conditioning (parenting)that was "screwy".
We will have fun doing our Bible study, together. Hurry and catch up to me(on the second part of the first set--lol)
It will help to see that we are part of a larger plan, which IS in order. That always helps me.There IS an order. I just have to find my small place ,in the order.
It helps to take away the "bigness" of my life and make it a small"ordered' life, in God's eyes, if not my own(lol). Love and Peace to you, Ami
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Some kind of a breakthrough - re: humiliation v. shame. I don't know yet but I have seen that there is some kind of a difference and that I am dealling with humiliation.
I also just got that both of my parents passed on their shame about money onto me and I took it. It is surprising to me that I have just figured that out. Money and finances has been such a huge part of my whole life, my whole disfunction. My complete paralysis is centered around the hub of my parents projection of shame about money onto me and my inability to earn money contrasted with the vast comfort concerning finances which they have and their reluctance or refusal to help - even though their money was given them by their parents - not earned!
I have just the first image of somepart of a block. I'm trying to work it out. It is as though the shame is generalized - touches everything, humiliation touches doing anything well or aiming for something good. It definitely comes from my father. It definitely is a double bind - shame if you don't achieve, humiliation if you do.
More than once I have written about discovering that working on a task that is shame oriented actually produces more shame. Today I had this sense that there is some difference between the shame e.g. of a dirty kitchen and the humiliation of cleaning up. It is definitely difficult to pick apart and even more difficult to get past.
My father both demanded excellence and glared daggers if I attempted to excell. He would figuratively pull the rug out from underneath me if I tried to do the things necessary to excell.
When I married my first husband, I thought I had gotten away from the shame and humiliation but it actually continued. My first husband was part of the social group I enjoyed being with but he was extremely overweight and had never had a girlfriend before. I felt at that time that the only chance I had was to go for someone who didn't have many options. As it turned out - it was a terrible choice. He was angry and bitter and he took it out on me. I was angry and resentful and took it out on him. BUT there was one difference - I did care about supporting and encouraging him. He was very resentful of everything I tried to do and he absolutely refused to help me accomplish anything - professionally, socially, or with family. When I would ask him for something he would say, "I'm not going to do that because you asked." When we finally went to see a therapist and I brought this up she asked me, "Well couldn't you tease him into doing it?" We both knew she would be no help. Once I was invited to a very nice dinner with a small prestigious organization when we were living in DC. I was invited b/c my gandfather was a donor. The dinner was at a very fine club and the attendees were all much older and very accomplished. Rather than carrying on a conversation with the others at our table my husband got up and went to watch basketball with the waiters at the bar. It was humiliating. Looking back I realize that the whole situation was uncomfortable for him but at the time it felt like he was sabotaging me.
Second marriage - a few months in I won an award as volunteer of the year in a city organization. It was a big deal and I received a very nice plaque. When I showed it to my new husband his response was, "What did you do to deserve that?" The week before he died my picture was going to be in the newspaper for the work I was doing in the inner city. Our baby was in the picture too because he always went to work with me. It was the morning of July 4th and my picture was in an annual section called Local Heros. That morning I said I wanted to go get a newspaper and he went ballistic about how self-serving I was. (He wouldn't allow me to get the paper at home b/c he got it at work - never mind that I didn't.) He was livid about MY picture being in the newspaper and that our son was in there as well didn't mitigate his anger in any way.
I know these things have taken a toll on me. There is really a kind of a block when it comes to breaking through. The price for accomplishment has repeatedly been humiliation. At those times in my life I had something of a support group. I didn't feel isolated, I felt connected. Now I am not connected and have no social group so the fear factor is even greater.
I hope that exposing some of these memories and unearthing the dynamic will help break this strong hold and release me to move forward. I have so much to offer. I always have but I have been emotionally hog tied.
I have already made tremendous progress. I have broken the stranglehold of resentment and that was huge. I was completely unaware of my sense of resentment and of the poisonous effect it had on me socially and in other ways with all human relations. So I have made that break through. This is the last and the biggest.
Inspite of all I have written here, I don't really understand why it is so difficult to break through here. I really want it. If I am doing something to stand in the way I am not sure. I can't help but believe that the experience of being humiliated after successes in the past has something to do with it. I think this may be one of those things that I have to figure out for myself like a chick has to break out of the shell by itself but gosh it sure feels like I need help. What a contradiction.
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Phoenix - thanks for asking. I was writing while you posted. I really like the concept of putting it back where it came from. I am not sure where I am today - sort of in the midst of the storm. One year ago I worked hard on this shame and made great progress. I remember that feelling of accomplishment but today I have no idea what accomplishment that was. I am definitely in the midst of a huge battle against this bohemoth.
Thanks for asking and thanks for the clever suggestion. - GS
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What you said about seeing the difference between shame and humiliation clangs big gongs with me. There really IS a difference... and at the moment, I think it's ownership. The shame may belong to someone else - you parents for instance. But, I think we own our humiliation - which is in the realm of what I consider a natural emotional response to being shamed; fairly or unfairly. The two feelings are partners and highly connected - cause & effect.
This really helps. I think I can separate the two now. When I feel this full force as I am today it is excruciatingly painful. But I think that I have worked through enough of it in the past to be able to bear the full brunt of the remaining pain.
I loved my grandparents, even though they did not take the active kind of a role in my life that would have helped tremendously but then they didn't do that with my mother or her sisters and that is definitely part of the problem. I am turning to my memory of them to get them to help me through this difficult time. I have found that turning to people in my mind often helps me through difficult situations. It is a form of visualization.
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I completely understand your pain and experience GS and encourage you to share whatever past memories help - I completely understand those too and have many times experienced saying something that I thought completely minor and inoffensive only to have my dad explode in outrage at my 'selfishness.' We are definitely working on the exact same issues, I completely recognize what you are grappling with. It is so heartening to me to know - I'm seriously teary to know others are right in there with me on this stuff - so many years, you know?
Your work on resentment is blowing my mind and is really raising my awareness. I have much more resentment as a sort of background presence than I was able to acknowledge. Not sure what to do next. I see the resentment as a huge obstacle to my freedom. Like a millstone around my neck.
Definitely understand these issues of performance. I feel at an almost instinctive level - guess it is gut level - that the effect of the performance mixed message was as if to route me - to train me - to pull the reins and push me left or right like a horse - in the directions my dad wanted me to go. But the point is not where he wants to go at all (there is no Goal) it is only to always be riding me, in control. There is no point other than the control. I'm speaking pure gut/emotion now and with no detachment. That's my emotional truth I guess.
I don't know about you but what dogs me constantly is that when I speak something like I just did above - the feeling of being ridden - that, even internally, I feel discounted. And that is because every time I speak like that in my FOO - they refute it completely. They trivialize, roll their eyes, call me hysterical, dramatic, crazy, emotional, selfish. They tell me my perspective is way off and wrong. That I am not seeing what I am seeing and that my feelings are not connected in any way to reality.
So even apart from them, even posting on this board. Internally - I am feeling their voices. And I am having a b***h of a time stopping believing in them. I believed in them for so long. I trusted those voices even though though they were always telling me how hateful I am, how wrong, how selfish, how blameworthy, inept, clueless, ignorant. All of this.
So your thoughts, which I encourage you so much to pursue and keep posting, are really hitting home with me. I hope my sharing doesn't distract but is helpful.
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Two things came to me: 1) from Lupita's post I realized that my parents expected me to excell but when I came close they sabotaged me and I was humiliated and when I tried again even if I had slight success my father in particular would say, "Yeah but last time you really messed up." No way out. Humilition if I did and humiliation if I didn't; 2) my images of successful people are of judgemental people. (I'm not saying it is so, I'm saying the two have been conflated in my psyche.) I must untwist these two.
There is also coming to me as I type a sense of being left out. That thing that happens in N families that I expanded in my mind to the world at large of being set up to be humiliated. Not being included but being publicly humiliated for not being included so that they could then look at my reaction and say, "see, that's what we have to put up with."
I am getting an inkling of what it would mean to simply not go there, no go to the place of humiliation. If I could get out of it I might be able to prevent myself from going there.
I believe that I am reliving the humiliation that I could not "feel" when I was a child and now the pain of it all is upon me and is very, very intense. I "feel" humiliated - over what? Nothing - nothing but the stuff from the past.
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Dear GS and Iphi,
I am feeling the same pain of seeing long standing patterns and realizing that *I* am replaying them over and over ,again.
I take the inner pain and try to make the outside world heal it, again and again.
Even if I get the "prefect" outcome, it can't heal it, I don't think.
Look at really successful people who have it all. if they have inner "demons",the success does not help. All the outside things don't touch the pain. At first, it seems to, but it does not last. In the end, it does not work.
I will write more later. Just got a mental block(lol) Love Ami
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Phoenix Rising - this is so helpful. I was able to do this this afternoon and evening. It really felt good. I believe that the more that I have this experience and the more I nurture the experience that it will grow and grow and at some point become the norm. I am very thankful to have had this experience for an extended period today. Thanks so much for your input and your encouragement.
It is so helpful that you and Iphi and Ami and others would take time to share with me and send your encouragement. It feels so good. Thanks. - Gaining Strength
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Dear GS
I am glad you are feeling a little better.
For me, the Bible study has really put me in a new dimesion. I realized that I had been trying to get back" to a time and place when I felt whole. I did not know God then.
Yesterday, I realized, from doing the Bible study, that I should NOT be looking backward. It was a happier time, yes, but I did not know God then, so it was not a "better' time.
That "me" is gone b/c I am with God ,now, and I am a different "me".I should not aspire to be "less" than I am ,now,which I have been doing.
I realized last night that Jesus was the answer to all questions, little and big,all fears, all dilemma's, all heartaches, all NM pain and sorrow.
God's love simplifes complex issues.
I realize that He loves me and who am I to argue(lol)?
He made me and values me, so who am I to disparage myself?It is an affront to Him for me to hate myself.
The Bible study flipped my mind from many nonessentials to a few essentials.
Perfect love(knowing God's love) casts out fear b/c it is higher than any human dilemma, I think.
It is the heart knowing that makes the difference.During the last 14 years, I studied the Bible for hours and hours and never really got it ,in the heart. Now, I hardly study and AM getting it in the heart.One drop of it ,in the heart ,is better than an ocean,in the head,I think.
Thanks for your friendship, GS. Love you, Ami
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Okay, here I go, sticking my neck out, stretching my faith on this one. I think I have broken through. Not sure but I am sure that I will so to heck with the doubt. I have broken through. I have more work to do but I have broken through.
The work I have done here has had its first evidence of success. I am able to function without the shame and humiliation. I am thankful. I am taking it easy today and not pushing things. I must strengthen this new found ability to shut down the same and the resulting fear/anxiety. I am beginning to be able to see that this stuff I've been calling shame is actually a whole bunch of different shame issues all tangled into a great big knotted ball. This morning (when shame is always the worst for me) I saw plainly for the very first time that there were a bunch of shames. Some of the come from the complete lack of boundaries that I grew up with.
My father held me responsible for all manner of things that I could do nothing about. He held me responsible for other people's and animals' actions. That has been a terrible, terrible burden believe it or not. For instance, I have an 18 year old cat with kidney trouble. That has resulted in some terrible problems with litter box usage - ie he prefers the floor or newspapers or almost anything but the litter box. Well that is trouble enough but I feel the unbearable shame around it all, responsible for it, humilitated by it and overwhelmed by the added, endless work and impossible upkeep. For the past 9 months he has been confined during the day to my (albeit large) bathroom. But I know exactly why I feel shame instead of just burden around this issue. My father held me responsible for other people's and animals' actions and I have continued to hold that. Well now I can connect the dots to that too and let it go.
OMG, I have a whole long list of things that I have wanted to do for so long and felt overbearing shame about and now I see where that shame came from. It is so crazy and such a tremendous relief. I have never been good enough and who could be if they were responsible for anyone else's actions.
Boundary issues have been a HUGE part of my healing. There were NO boundaries in my household. I have made ENORMOUS improvement on boundaries but for the first time in years I see that I have more. I never knew until today that baoundary issues were entangled in this shame mess. Now I know and this knowledge will be very helpful.
One thing that will DEFINITELY be part of my needed work will be overcoming a particular fear, the fear of shaming. The reason this is a problem is that as I type here I realize that I would rather type than try out my new found healing/freedom from shame and actually get some work done but I AM AFRAID, afraid that the shame will hit again. That fear is very dangerous so I am going to work on that first and foremost before I do anything else.
Looking for courage and confidence to move to the next step. so thankful for the progress, so thankful for this place that has helped me work though this stuff and has taught me so much. Love to all - GS
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So glad to know you dear (((( GS )))) and to have had the privilege of witnessing your diligent endeavours, with serenity of transformation.
Please know that you remain in my thoughts and prayers.
Love, Leah
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Thank you so much Leah. I believe I now have the courage at last to face the difficult financial and legal problems that have been plagueing me and worsening over the past 6 and 1/2 years. I am ready but not looking forward to it. Much love, GS
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Dear GS,
I missed that post about your H trying to take away any sense of accomplishment and shame you. WHERE do WE find them(lol)?
We have to be "ripe for the picking" and THAT is what we are working on(lol)
GS, I am trying to see to the roots of what you are talking about. Why do we repeat and keep the same patterns?
Today, I talked to Ann(1and 1/2 hours). *I* told her I had to go b/c it was so heavy and I could not do it anymore. I will call her ,tomorrow.
The reason we stay with hurtful patterns is "strongholds", I think. We have deep spiritual forces that are operating in us . We need to break their power, on a spiritual level, which is different than a "thought" level.
I told Ann that I wanted to reclaim my life ,from the time my M stole it.Ann told me that my M was trying to make me a mirror image of her. My M hated that *I* was social . She wanted to make me a person who puts her foot in her mouth at every occasion, as she is. She wanted to take away my integrity and make me like she was.
She wanted to steal any beauty in my life, any love, such as love of animals, people ,friends, etc and make it ugly.
Ann told me that I had to renounce the beliefs I took from her and then replace them with what God thought of me. We went down the list and renounced each one and replaced it with what God thought of me.
I do feel a little less oppressed ,now. I feel a little more hopeful.
Ann never heard(or rarely) of s/one as bad as my M.
I will write more, GS.
You WILL prevail. God will not start a good work in you and not bring it to completion(can't remember which verse it is),but you HAVE started and I am believing with you that you will be whole, at the end. Love Ami
(((((((((((GS)))))))))
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Ann never heard(or rarely) of s/one as bad as my M.
Wow, that's incredible and it is also affirming. So glad you have her, so glad she is helping you. It is very, very important to have people who can guide us through these difficult healing times.
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GS
The fact that Ann saw my M as so bad felt bad, not good. It makes me feel more hopeless to change, rather than affirmed.That is one of my strongholds that I will never be OK b/c she is so bad. I know that I am not alone b/c of the board, though. Thank Goodness! Love Ami
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GS,
I said this to Amber on her post and I want to say the same to you: I love the work you're doing. Keep on keepin on. You go girl.
ann
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WHERE do WE find them(lol)?
We have to be "ripe for the picking" and THAT is what we are working on(lol)
GS, I am trying to see to the roots of what you are talking about. Why do we repeat and keep the same patterns?
Ami,
ROTFLMAO!! :lol:
Yeah, where, why, how do we find 'em????!!!!!!
Yup, agree, we were (but no longer are) ripe for the pickin.
Ann told me that I had to renounce the beliefs I took from her and then replace them with what God thought of me. We went down the list and renounced each one and replaced it with what God thought of me.
I do feel a little less oppressed ,now. I feel a little more hopeful.
Ami, this sounds really good. I bet this is sooo hard for you to absorb and swallow all this, especially due to the grief. Grief makes so many things harder to do. Do what you can at your own pace. Hey, it's great you stood up for yourself and said 'I need a break', that's wonderful. But, I really like what your Ann said. Keep on keepin on, you go girl.
The fact that Ann saw my M as so bad felt bad, not good. It makes me feel more hopeless to change, rather than affirmed.That is one of my strongholds that I will never be OK b/c she is so bad.
Ami, I know this feeling: made me feel like a hopeless freak. But, evetually, I accepted what my NM did to me and am trying to heal. So, please try not to feel stymied by our feelinings of freaky, hopeless aloneness. We can over come and move forward if we want to do so.
w/ love,
ann
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The fact that Ann saw my M as so bad felt bad, not good. It makes me feel more hopeless to change, rather than affirmed.That is one of my strongholds that I will never be OK b/c she is so bad.
Oh my heavens! you have told me that you felt hopeless because she was so bad but I did not fully process it. I simply projected onto you what my feelings would have been. All my life I was sort of saying, "Look how mean they are to me." and noone would pay any attention. But your experience is quite different. You feel that because she was such a bad mother that you don't have a chance to change. I am so sorry. What a terrible feeling.
I am glad you have Ann to help you work though this stronghold and I am glad that you can at least see intellectually that this is not true. I know shewill help you to overcome this stronghold. I suspect you are experiencing some grief about it tonight.
I love the work you're doing. Keep on keepin on. You go girl.
Thank you Ann3. I am eager for the next step to see the real changes in action.
BTW - what is ROTFLMAO!!
Phoenix Rising
If you notice yourself shaming yourself - you can stop that. Yes, yes, yes!!!!
(Admittedly, this takes practice to "perfect"). I am practicing, you can bet on that!
Your stronger boundaries will help protect you from someone else shaming you. That thought is very, very helpful and reassuring. Thank you so much!!!
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Dear GS,
You did not make me feel badly. One of MY strongholds is that I can never be OK b/c I had a M like mine. I am permamently damaged b/c of her.
ROTFL is rolling on the floor laughing. The rest I don't know.
Thinking of you, GS Love Ami
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I am permamently damaged b/c of her.
This is how I am editing this statement for you: I am permamently temporarily damaged b/c of her.
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You are sweet, GS!!! Love Ami
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ROTFLMAO
rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off
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I like that, Ann!!!!! Ami
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I am in a very interesting place this morning. It is "inbetween" the fear and the fact. Mornings have always been the worst for me. I wake and slide immediately into anxiety. This morning as I woke, my mind began the list of things that need to be done and THEN (there was actually a discernable gap) I began to feel the fear start to wash over me. I called out in my mind and claimed the peace and rejected the fear. Oddly enough I immediately recognized how uncomfortable that new feeling was. While I hate the paralyzing old feeling the new one is not comfortable and out of that zone of recognition I almost found myself drifting back into the fear place. This will be my concentration today: holding onto the fear free zone.
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Dear GS,
I am with you(in thought and prayer) as you move to a higher level, which IS your true place,with God. Love Ami
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Thinking of you, today.GS. I have some new things to tell you about from Ann, about how to switch our identity from the one our N parents gave us to the one God sees . It is really powerful! Love Ami
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Thinking of you, today.GS. I have some new things to tell you about from Ann, about how to switch our identity from the one our N parents gave us to the one God sees . It is really powerful! Love Ami
Hi Ami,
I have been following your progress, along with GS, during the last couple of days postings, and truly, I have been so blessed.
Looking forward to your posting regarding Ann's insight, with much interest.
Love to you, and GS
Leah xx
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I am ready to learn how to do that Ami.
I had a mixed day and bet that will be true for a while. I am definitely putting everything into changing my thoughts and overcoming these difficult barriers that I have lived with for so long. Each day I get even more insight into their origins and how they effect my every thought and every move. I am noticing a slight reduction in the anxiety. That in its self is very welcomed.
Fear and anxiety have been my constant companions my entire life. I heard an interesting man talk today about children who grow up in abusive or neglectful families experience a constant pumping of adreniline which in effect causes malformation of many of the cognitive functions of the brain, inhibiting mature social responces and functioning. This made perfect sense to me. I am so looking forward to getting out of the adreniline business.
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I realized this morning that this "breakthrough" that I am experiencing is a process, a painful, but good, significant and wonderful but slow process.
Last night I set my alarm - most unusual - because my child had to be at school at 6:45 for a field trip. I awoke before my 5am alarm was to go off and tossed and turned until 5:45. When I got up my watch said 3:45. So back to sleep or rest. During this fitful period and subsequent sleep I had several powerful images - some dream images and some thought images.
In One of the dream images I am in a room - it's at a backwoods sort of inexpensive mountain camping lodge in which the rooms have walls of unfinished, rough wood and some sort of neutral shag carpeting while the interior had strong accent colors of a pretty, vibrant red - comfortable - far from elegant. I heard the thunder and looked out of the window and saw my hanging bag with all my clothes lieing on top of the car. I was completely immobilzed by shame - unable to do anything about the situation. Unable to dress and go bing the clothes in, unable to call for help.
Suddenly I knew how completely immobilizing my fathers constant humiliation of me has been. Instances like this, which make no sense, completely constricted me from action, simple action. But I could not act.
Remarkably this simple dream image has been so illuminating to me about how I became so completely immobilized in my life. If his humiliation could paralyze me in a simple, harmless, situation where there were no onlookers and no shamers then no wonder I have been shamed into paralysis over issues that often evoke judgement.
This has been such a long, painful journey to get to this understanding. I will be so thankful when I am able to move out from underneath.
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Dear GS,
I have so much I want to say on this thread. I am going out and will write later. Love Ami
(((GS))))
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I've spent some time with this image this morning. I have gotten some clarity. In fact that is exactly what this image has given me - clarity. I see what this shame has done, where it came from and how it has imprisoned me for so long.
One metaphor I have used over the years to describe my life has been that I have been driving through life with my brakes on. Well, my brakes are this extreme shame/humiliation imparted primarily by my father.
In this room when I revisit I see what is going on and it is like taking my foot off the brake. That feels great but I am not able to leave the room and go on about my life, I am not able to put my foot back on the accelertor. It's not ideal but it is tremendous progress over where I have been.
It is a peaceful place and that is great.
Needless to say - I want out. I want to drive forward without the brakes.
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GS wrote:
Suddenly I knew how completely immobilizing my fathers constant humiliation of me has been. Instances like this, which make no sense, completely constricted me from action, simple action. But I could not act.
This is exactly it for me too GS. That is it, exactly. I am unfortunately crazy-busy today but your work - so incredbily meaningful to me! I am so grateful to you and appreciative for sharing it with us.
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Iphi - thanks for the confirmation. I am so glad we are on this journey together.
I have had another insight. I have spent much of the past few years avoiding doing things because EVERYTHING produced the shame feeling, aboslutely EVERYTHING down to minutia - brushing my teeth or not brushing my teeth and on and on. Now that I have made some progress on identifying this shame/humiliation source and getting some distance I must begin to switch from an avoidance mode to a productive mode.
I am extremely thankful that my avoidance mode did not take me into substance abuse, (though many who go that route suffer as few social consequences as have I.) But I want to build enough of a shield around my psyche so that I can start to be productive without being dessimated by that sense of humiliation which completely shuts me down or sends me into avoidance behavior. What I do to avoid is to watch tv, spend time doing puzzles, sleep, spend excessive time here. None of these things are harmful in and of themselves and they all help me zone out from the pain. But I am ready to lay them aside and move into a stage two.
For me Stage Two will be to zone into a positive thought process where I am facing the shaming sensation head on. The more I do this the sooner I will be able to move into the proactive state. The thing I realized is that I can do this anytime and anywhere. That should help speed up "recovery."
Thanks to all for letting me share here. It is such a help. I have spent so many years yearning for someone to talk to about these issues, someone to listen and help me find my way. I found that this concentrated effort is simply too taxing for 3Ders. But here it falls on a group of people and who ever feels like supporting can and whoever isn't interested can simply ignore. It is such a perfect way for healing to take place. I am, as always, very thankful to Dr. Grossman for this place and to each and every member - short term and long term alike. - Thanks to all - GS
Thanks so much for your encouragement Phoenix Rising. It really helps.
It takes a while for this type of shift to solidify; feel real and steady. I know you are right and it helps so much to hear this. I am in the solidifying stage. It is scary at first - the fear is that it won't solidify but the trick is to overlook that fear and to believe. That is where I think replacing the avoidance time with working on solidifying my positive thoughts will be truly helpful. Thanks so much.
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Dear GS,
I am trying to see the deeper roots of your issues. I think your F did what my M did. They intruded in every aspect of our life and "person" They would not allow us to have boundaries to our 'self". They decimated all :our thoughts, emotions , perceptions.
They slithered in ,like snakes, and wove a cobweb around us that encompassed us to the bone. It took all of us and hardly left a sliver. However, they did leave a sliver and that is what we have to begin the rebuilding process.
Maybe, this is what enmeshment is. They go inside you and wind around your mind and heart and squeeze tightly until there is nothing left.
You are flat, as barren landscape.
My greatesr dream in life is to be nothing like my M. It was always my "aspiration".
Ann said that I AM nothing like her and that is a start.
Your F could not take away your true core. I can see and hear it.
What happened was that we got enmeshed with thier lies. It is that simple, but yet not easy to dismantle.
I will write more about Ann, later. Love Ami
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You got it Ami. There is no doubt about your points. He definitely lives in my head - that ever critical voice shaming and humiliating. I still believe (only ased on my experience) that children of N parents have a terrible difficult time to be successful in life. But at least here there is a fighting chance.
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Dear GS,
I have hope for the first time since I was 14 that I don't have to carry the 'curse" of my M.
My M made me feel guilty for aspiring to anything beyond where she was.My GM told me to be the best I could be, in every area.
I see how my M wanted to keep me down, but I can break that bondage .
Ann had me repeat the parts of my identity that I took from my M and say that I break the bondage to the lie and take the truth of what God says about me to EACH lie I believed.
IOW, I would say that I renounce the lie that I am socially a "boob" and accept that I am gracious, as God made me.
If I had a stronghold like I can NEVER be anything good in life b/c I had my M,I replace that with,"I mirror my Father(God).
So, I have to see my identity as God sees it, not as my NM wanted me to see it ,to serve HER.
Ann is amazing, really amazing, GS. Love Ami
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I have hope for the first time since I was 14 that I don't have to carry the 'curse" of my M.
Wow! Are you kidding. That's incredible!
If I had a stronghold like I can NEVER be anything good in life b/c I had my M,I replace that with,"I mirror my Father(God).
OMG, it sounds simple but very, very difficult. I wonder if I can summon the courage to do that. I bet I can. I wonder if I can summon the discipline.
I'm so glad for you Ami. That is so incredible to me!! You really amaze me.
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Ann is sending me info and a sheet for you b/c I told her about you. I will help you do everything Ann did with me, GS. Love Ami
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Wow! That is sooo nice of you AMi. Thank you sooooo much! That really touches me.
Much love to you - Gaining Strength
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Really painful dreams last night! As I move through this the pain is getting greater and greater. It is the shaming pain and I am living it from the past right through the present and it does shut me down completely.
My dream last night was set in the beautiful home I grew up in. There was all sorts of activity going on and there were people from my childhood and present life. I went to sleep in my bedroom. The rest of the crowd slept somewhere there and in the morning there was a bustle of activity. I did not want to be left out. I was very, very afraid that I was going to be left out. I was hurrying as fast as I could. Opening my door, half dressed to figure out where everyone was in their preparations, looking out the window to see who was gathering outside and whether they were leaving or not. I was franticly trying to connect with people and when anyone had a question or needed help with something I was offering answers and help hoping to connect in and not be left.
THIS is what my entire life has been, bending over backwards, desparate to be included. Always the persuer, never the persued.
Well almost never. But when I was pursued - especially romatically but also asked to social or civic activities, I felt obligated to accept and that led to terrible, terrible problems. This profound feeling of being left out has led to an isolated life. This goes to my deepest hurts and it all stems from my family dynamic.
I am still reeling from the pain disclosed in this dream. It is so real and so painful and of course I have noone to discuss it with. That need to talk about my pain would eventually alienate many people from my life whom I considered friends. My pain and fear of being on the outside, from an early age, completely destroyed my dating life. As a teenager I would go on very few dates and when I did I would not know what to say but would try to make a connection. I knew even then that the trying was alienating and so I tried harder. It is what I have referred to for many years as accelerating to get my wheel out of the mud - the harder I tried the stucker I got. This was the same dynamic I ran into in job hunting. My my mid 30s I knew that the only way I would get work was to create my own. I could not sell myself for anything. I didn't have the words then but I was too desparate.
It's sort of like the Cinderella story. I live in a beautiful house where I am slave to a step mother and sisters (my FOO) and when I ge out I am discovered but I must rush back to my servant's role (my current life in this house in shambles) and wait to be discovered. Only there will be no discovery. I must dig myself out now.
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How is it I can figure so much out and yet cannot break this paralysis. Something must be left. What in the world could it be?
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Oh GS,
I was on my way out ,but had to write . You are seeing and defining the problem, THAT is a big step and a first step out.
You see how your "story" was always "pushing" to be included. It was your life theme. It played out in most of your situations and relationships, as you can see.
We, who were abused, play out different patterns ,over and over ,again,on current situations. We get frozen and unable to stop the patterns and move forward.
You SEE the pattern.
Now, I think the answer is spirtual. Psychological insights DO help and have a place, but true power to change is ,often, in the spiritual realm.
It is a matter of changing your "identity" from an "outsider" to an insider(one who belongs in life)
I think Ann calls the "outsider" , the "orphan spirit"
You are on the first step. God will not start a work in you and not bring it to completion.
I will help you with changing your identity, as Ann helped me.
It is "simple",in a way. You WILL get there. I am getting better and you will ,too, GS.
Love Ami
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after I posted this morning I lay down an rested. I ha a memory from 8th grade when I was asked on a date for the first time. I remember the boys name though I haven't seen him since then. He invited me to go to the fair that September.
My parents wouldn't allow me to go. I was too young they said and besides they didn't know the boy's family. It was embarrassing to not be allowed. Everyone else I knew could date then and this was a very innocent outing.
As I lay down I had an image of what it would have been like if my parents had been different. They were excited for me and my mother helped me plan what I would wear.
But the most significant thing about this experience is that I remembered that I would have been unsure about what to do or sy on the date if I had been allowed. That uncertainty would last my whole life. One of the greatest uncertainties was what I should allow him to pay for and what could I ask for or what could I say I didn't want or want to do or want to eat or would I be asked to have something to eat or would he open the car door for me and if so should I scoot over or expect him to walk around.
As these thoughts were racing around in my head I knew where they had come from. I knew all of this had come from my father. And just as suddenly as I knew this I had images of me at 13 being very composed and very comfortable when the boys parents drove up to pick me up. I knew what to say and what to ask. I knew how to have a good time and enjoy the fair with him and have fun running into other kids from school.
But that was not my life. I lived my life in shame because both of my parents were so deeply shamed. They could not help me develop the real me.
When this whole memory/image was over I got up and began cleaning and organizing my pantry. I have wanted to do this for months and months. I worked straight for 3 hours. I got to a stopping point without exactly finishing but I know how to finish later.
All of my life my father would humiliate me and he taught, by example, my brothers to do the same. My mother followed suit so that she would not get his rath. But his rath was a silent, noiseless clenched jaw that controlled everyone.
Had I gone to the fair with my father he would have only allowed me to do the things that he selected. He would not have allowed me to have the foods I wanted. He was very moralistic about food and food from the fair was not what "nice" people ate. He would not have allowed me to play a game until I won a stuffed animal. He would have made me ride rides that I didn't want to ride if HE said so.
When I went out into the world I transferred all of this to myself and kept his "rules". But they never gee'd and haw'd with the way everyone else did things. This wasn't so much a problem in terms of people dropping me as friends until I was in my mid and late 20s and then it just got to be too much for most people. That coupled along with the fact that all the people I grew up with had had help getting jobs and careers and inheritance to provide comfortable lives for themselve while I was still living a pauper's life and was angry and resentful.
So much of this shame comes from perfectionism that my father put on me. Demands that could not be met and that ended up completely binding me. Here was this man, moralistic, perfectionistic, NPD, OCD, bi-polar, and successful financially, in business (family) and socially. These dark traits simply looked to the outside like a very strict and demanding man but it went waayy beyond that and it caused me so much pain and loss.
I completely understand how I got where I am. I believe I understand at least one way out. I wish the way out was not as painful as the way in but it seems like it is to me.
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Dear GS
What do you mean is the way out? It sounds bad, but I must be interpreting you, wrong. Ami
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In part I mean the way out of disfunction, the way out of the double bind, the way out of the shame, etc.
But to list them is far too limiting.
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You scared me, GS.
Ann helped me with my "identity". When you talk about shame GS, it is all wound up in our identity.Perfectionism is a tool we use to fuel the shame. It drives us with a whip and we are flogged b/c we simply CANNOT reach the standards it sets.
I made a list ,for Ann,of all the parts of my identity I took from my M, such as not being able to be socially,gracious person b/c SHE was not and *I* could not aspire to higher than she without feeling "bad" and condemned.
Ann and I renounced all the bad characteristics and claimed the ones I wanted.
I have felt hope since then.
I talked to my M last night. She really could not do better. Her thinking is "missing a piece". She did not try to destroy me, on purpose, even though it felt like it
Today, I have a deeper peace than I have had since I was in my 20's. I feel like I can get my own peace, from inside me, NOT from others or the outside.
When you are lost and underwater(emotional problems), you really can't help it. I see that. It is NOT s/one's fault if they are "screwed up"(IMO). It is involuntary, just as my shock after Scott's death was. I could not help it, at all. I went in to shock and I functioned in a certain way, with certain emotions and certain blocks.
It is the same with emotional and mental illness(IMO). You can't help it. They are defense mechanisms meant to keep you alive ,albeit impaired.
God builds in survival mechanisms, such as shock when a child dies.
We, as abused children, had the same type of shock.
I ,always, felt that it was my fault that I was "screwed up",but it was not.
The truth is the healer and we are facing the truth,GS. Love Ami
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Dear GS,
This thread is helping me so much. I am getting away, little by little ,from my old thinking. I realize I have felt a depression for a very ,long time, It is "normal" to me. I feel it b/c I always feel like I am failing, everywhere I look,outside and inside myself.
I can't look anywhere and not see failure. It is so "big" HOW much I am a failure in any area in life. However, I got a BIG key ,today. I am a failure b/c perfection is the standard. IF perfection was NOT the standard, I would not be a faliure.
It was a big insight, even though it sounds small. I got it ,in the heart.
I feel more peaceful, today. Love Ami
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Dear GS,
Just popped in here to read and the title of your thread caught my eye. I want to say:
How well you express yourself!! Truly you have a gift!
Second, I have not read past the first page here because a couple of things grabbed my attention and just wouldn't let me go further without commenting.
A) Some part of the shaming tells me still that I don't deserve to have a good life, to be accepted, to have friends, a good job, a social life and on and on. A big part of me still believes that and that is THE barrier still standing between me and "life".
It is so much like a darkness, as you later describe and another thing it is, imo and I bet many others here would agree too:
IT IS A BIG LIE!
I know you don't believe it but the absolute truth is that you DO deserve to have a good life, to be accepted, to have friends, a good job, a social life and on and on. The word shaming and deserve are closely related here and this is the crux of the lie. Clearly you have been lead to believe that you are not worthy......not deserving .......through ......lies. The shame put upon you went straight along a circuit ending in the value account in your head (pinging in the number "Zero" time after time until you believed it to be your exact worth).
Not the truth at all, GS. Just a big bunch of stinking, ugly, nasty putrid lies!
You are just as good and just as worthy and just as deserving as the next dope ( :D) ....you deserve to have everything good in your life and those who lied to you over and over, in order to make you believe otherwise, are simply big fat ugly liars. (I said "dope" there jokingly halfsorta because we are all dopes some times.......none of us are perfect...just human and in that way.....very, very similar).
Would it help to make this a BIG part of the thought experiment for healing?.........
reject the lies
The truth is you absolutely deserve good things because you are no more dopey than the rest of the world!
((((((((((((GS)))))))))))) You are a loving, valuable, decent human being. That's the solid simple truth!!
B) How is it I can figure so much out and yet cannot break this paralysis.
I can relate so much to this. Thoughts just pop into my head and I sometimes feel like I have no control over it.
The reality is........I don't have control over what pops into my head.
I do, however, have control over how long I allow those thoughts to circulate and remain and torment and drain my energy and further......over what I choose to believe.
Sometimes, I am weak and I don't put a stop to it (the lies...the junk.....the negative stuff)....as quickly as I could. Maybe, those days, I need to feel the pain of the past? Maybe I need to mourn my losses a little more? Maybe I can't be bothered taking a stand because I'm lazy or something?
The rest of the time......I choose.......not to allow that crap to play over and over in my brain. I tell myself I'm in charge of my own head. I remember to be thankful for so much. I look at those worse off and realize it could be worse. I look up to those who've survived much worse and who's attitudes I admire and I strive to emulate them.........even if it isn't truly what's in my heart. It's what I know is best and what I know I can decide. And most of all......I choose to reject the lies. Most of the time, actually, these days, which is a good thing eh?
It takes time and repitition....perseverence. It took a long time for those lies to become solid beliefs and it will take awhile to evacuate them.....house clean, so to speak.
Please keep going! A little at a time. Healing will come.
I don't think anyone can just turn this kind of stuff off...like some sort of switch and have it gone for good, just like that. Maybe some people can? I don't know. I know very little when it comes down to it.
If any of this helps.....I'm very glad!
If it doesn't........pitch it to the wind.
I'm off to read some more of your wonderful thread.
Sela
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reject the lies
Wow Sela. Thank you. Thank you so much. This is the best.
It is so good to see it SO big.
It takes time and repitition....perseverence. It took a long time for those lies to become solid beliefs and it will take awhile to evacuate them.....house clean, so to speak.
You are so right. I can say this to myself over and over and value it but when I read or hear these words from someone else they make a deeper impression. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and post. It is such a help to have encouragement from my friends here. I can't soak in enough encouragement. That's what happens when you grow up in a family and then live a life without people who support you no matter what. Here I get that. Thank you.
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Dear GS,
Just saying Hello and wanting to give some encouragement. I am seeing that all the self hatred and shame IS lies. Why are WE any different than any other human being?
We were TOLD we were ,so other people could keep themselves"safe"i.e our parents.
I am seeing the truth, little by little.
You will climb out of the lies and pain, little by little ,GS, as I will. Love Ami
(((((((((GS))))))))
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Dear GS,
I know you don't deserve the shame you're battling.
I know your father's multiple disorders were a shitty, horrible, unfair and MEAN thing for the universe to hand you.
You did not and do not deserve those icky, repellent feelings of unbelonging and inadequacy.
There is no other person, anywhere, who has the right to or the capability of deeming you "adequate", "worth befriending", "competent" or "acceptable."
You are already all of these things.
You already are.
It's your true, cellular, universe-given BIRTHRIGHT.
You have belonging inside you already.
You have adequacy inside you already.
You have friendship inside you already.
You have acceptance inside you already.
Those toxic stupid fear-based, inherited lies are just blabbling messages from unruly destructive psyches. They're noisy, surface sludge that flooded over you many many years ago.
You are swimming toward the light now. You have strong arms and a fine mind. You have an instinctive sense of what is fair.
On some level, you know it is just not FAIR for you to feel so ashamed of yourself for existing.
On some level, you know you are welcome in the world.
I welcome you, my friend.
with much love,
Hops
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Dear GS
Ann prayed that I would not have an "orphan" spirit. It is a feeling that you have no right to exist in the world, no place in life. I did not realize that I had this, but I did.
WE have a right to exist , to thrive, to be, and we need to embrace that right ,at a deep level.
After Ann prayed, I felt better.
We have deep, deep lies ,such as this that run our lives.
When we uproot them, we will come in to the light and heal.
That is what you are doing and I am by your side, on the journey. Love Ami
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Yes it makes sense. I am getting it and soooo looking forward to a more extensive post on the matter.
It fits neatly with the other one I got yesterday about forgiving myself for failing in the past, for allowing my house to deteriorate, for allowing my finances to get into a mess. If I can forgive myself about past mistakes then I can begin to loosen the noose of shame/blame.
In the same vein I can learn to CARE about myself. That will be an interesting one. I will definitely bump up against shame when I consciously CARE about myself.
One of the articles I ran across yesterday wrote about looking at the way we care for our bodies as a barometer of our self-shaming. That really clicked with me and your point connects with that one too.
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I have much to say and little time. I am trying to get back on track with getting my business on line.
This process is such a see-saw. (An image I have referred to many times here on board.) Each day has real and dramatic ups and downs. I am clearly making progress but not as swift as I would like. One moment I think I have finally broken through the barrier completely only to find myself back on the other side - but still very, very close to ultimate break-through. Today is more of that same. Not at all disappointing. Demanding patience that I finally have. Break through is so very near. This process is faith building for me - a necessary quality to prepare me to endure the down times without experiencing fear and discouragement. This process is healing and preparing.
This morning I spent in mediatation and prayer. Not planned but needed. I found myself actually battling the dark sides of past shaming - a kind of ceremonial breaking free. There is still something not yet unbound but I don't have a name for it. But the good part is something significant has been loosed - I don't yet know what that is either - only that I am ever closer to ultimate break through. Building confidence and determination.
Did something to shame myself yesterday. It was tied to the ultimate power shaming that was used against me by my father - the shaming and ultimate control of me via money. That original shaming is why I have not been able to provide for myself financially. There is so much to this. I have not had the courage to post about it. The pain was too great, my vulnerability - too great. The work of the board has given me strength and courage to put it out there now. I hope to have the time this afternoon or evening.
I am thankful for the companionship of those here. Ami is correct about the strength of the support and friendship here. I have been blind to it, put it in the box of "not enough" and have not given it the full value. But something switched in me to see that. Then I see our exchanges and realize that I have always hoped for someone to travel this journey with and I have hoped that in my 3d life and hoped that for here. Well I have that but had been blind to it. Now that I can see it I know I am truly gaining strength.
We will transcend these binds. We will be free on this earth, in this life.
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Dear GS,
I see that we can hope for a good life,on this earth.I have to face the truth of myself and life, first,I think. The truth of whatever IS is the key.Any denial will diminish my life. Truth will hurt ,but it will give the gifts I want,such as emotional health.
This is my greatest desire at the moment, emotional health.
If I have to hurt to get there, so be it. The worse hurt is the hurt of being in denial and isolation.
The worst hurt is turning on yourself. I have been there and am still not out of it,but expect that if I can keep facing the truth, at some point, I will be out .
When we have our own emotional and mental health,we have so much. Love Ami
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(((GS)))
Also cheering you on! Thank you, you have a gift of helping others along your journey to live your authentic life.
I really understood living with the brakes on. I have done this also.
In the last couple of months I have stepped out of my comfort zone, and have accomplished a few small goals, well HUGE to me. lol
Your gentle strength has lit a candle in my heart, to push a little harder, a little deeper.
GS is going to make it, is making it happen, I am a witness, I am blessed. Love always, seasons
P.S.
Waving hello, miss you sweet Sela!
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So nice to hear from you ,Seasons.
GS, I think that we are getting there ----to our authentic selves. Today, I took a big step. I realized that I had tremendous anger toward my H, but did not know what to do with it.
I told him I had tremendous anger at him and myself. It was SO easy to rectify the situation. When I was strong, he backed down and OFF.
Once I lost Scott,I didn't care anymore ,so I got strong.
It was ALL it took.
I am angry at myself for being such a fool. My son died b/c he could not take the abuse. He thought HE had to intervene.
I could have stopped it all, at any time, but I could not see it .
I really WAS Dorothy who could have gone home at any time, but did not know it.
I would call this situation a huge cosmic "joke. I could have stopped all the abuse at any time along the way,but I didn't know it.
So, I am really , really angry. That is a legitimate part of who I am and who I need to be.
I STILL need my anger ,as part of my compass.
The N parent really cripples you when they take away your anger. You are running a race(life) with one leg . Ami
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Ami,
I know what you mean about the big comic joke played on us and being Dorothy- we always had the power to 'go home', but we didn't know. I look back at my life prior to 'waking up' and I call it my delusion. It wasn't an illusion, it was a delusion, I was asleep in denial. Now I'm awake and feel so many feelings like anger, regret, I feel like I was robbed. But, I also feel a strength in my awakening, like I can see clearer, now I can answer some of those questions that baffled me.