Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on March 25, 2008, 04:32:18 PM
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If so, if you care to, explain the circumstances. If not, how do you think it impacted you?
It is more about "feeling" loved than "knowing" intellectually you were loved. My Aunt, who loves herself, remembers when her mother would have a" hug" time, when they would just "love" each other.
I bet people who "felt" loved have a totally different life experience. Ami
PS I am thinking of feeling loved in any relationship, as an adult or a child.
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No 'hug time' with my mother, that's for sure...
It's a hard one Ami...
Yes, as an adult I have sometimes felt loved in intimate relationships, when I allowed myself to. I've always been fearfully attached and wondering when things would go wrong.
I feel loved by my friends and siblings.
In childhood, I felt loved by the same siblings (all younger than me), especially the little ones who I mothered. Not by my parents, though. The effect: I'm not rooted.
Bee
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Thanks,Bee.
Your responses are always insightful and profound . Thank you, Bee. Warmly, Ami
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I'm not sure I even know what love is, and I don't believe I have ever felt love or experienced it like other people do. I'm at a stage now in my life though that I realize its partly my own doing. There are people, and have been people, who have cared about me and loved me. But having felt it, no.
I had a girlfriend about a decade ago, who probably loved me and cared for me quite a bit. There was a part of me though, deep inside, that wouldn't let me have it. There was a lot of fear, and doubt. I know what it all boils down to, I didn't believe I was lovable so I didn't believe somebody could love me. I remember how my thought process went. "I wish she could love me, but she couldn't possibly." "She says she loves me, but she's doing to be nice because she feels sorry for me." My mind had a million excuses as to how to avoid it, or rationalize it away. I recognize it as a very serious issue I had, because, on occasion, it would drive me absolutely insane. On the rare occasions I did believe in it, I had to face a horribly cruel self esteem and come to a realization of how absolutely undeserving and unworthy of love I was and how I could never live up to the responsibility... and at the time it I prefered death to feeling in such a way. Oh, so I guess, on occasion, I did feel love... though it felt more like a disaster waiting to happen. I too felt like something would be exposed and it would all go wrong at some point. It turned into a self fulfilling prophecy. I guess I have some serious issues, but I didn't really ever feel anyone cared about me or ever would... and eventually I just stopped caring... or I buried it deep out of awareness. I think know I accept that its possible for people to love or care about me, but I wont allow myself to feel it because of the negative emotions associated with it in the past...
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Oh Darren,
That was so honest.Thank You , Sweetie! Ami
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I'm not sure I even know what love is, and I don't believe I have ever felt love or experienced it like other people do. I'm at a stage now in my life though that I realize its partly my own doing. There are people, and have been people, who have cared about me and loved me. But having felt it, no.
Darren,
It would seem to me that the people you mention above, the ones that cared and loved you, were relatives or girlfriends?
For me I can reflect back to when I was about 9 months old; my mom tried to commit suicide leaving me and my sister alone in the house as she went intoxicatedly wandering down an alley where she eventually passed out, was found and then sent to a hospital, eventually on to a psyche ward where she stayed for quite some time.
Every symptom tells us a story, for weeks I have been experiencing a painful thirst that hinges on the neurotic. I finally was able to find this memory, making the connection to the neglect I felt as I was left unfed in a crib, or whereever, I was unattended to for who knows how many hours until this sweet hispanic lady came and rescued me, she was a neighbor.
I can still feel her love...it was intoxicating because it was so soothing and rich compared to my mom's toxic love but it created a dynamic or hardwiring in me for forbidden love in later life.
You see as much as I wanted to drink in this lovely warmth and caring woman's love and attention for me I could not because of the threat it posed to my survival -- I needed my mom to survive, no matter how toxic her love was.
But I did let the woman's warmth and care for me in...I can feel it...the soothing of her care of me, treating me like I was precious, not projecting, nurturing me with joy, taking delight in me...it was all good.
She was one of many people who gave me a foundation of love in my early developing years. If it were not for her and others, that were capable of genuine love, I most likely would not be as healthy has I am today.
Lise
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You're welcome, Ami! =)
Darren,
It would seem to me that the people you mention above, the ones that cared and loved you, were relatives or girlfriends?
For me I can reflect back to when I was about 9 months old; my mom tried to commit suicide leaving me and my sister alone in the house as she went intoxicatedly wandering down an alley where she eventually passed out, was found and then sent to a hospital, eventually on to a psyche ward where she stayed for quite some time.
Every symptom tells us a story, for weeks I have been experiencing a painful thirst that hinges on the neurotic. I finally was able to find this memory, making the connection to the neglect I felt as I was left unfed in a crib, or whereever, I was unattended to for who knows how many hours until this sweet hispanic lady came and rescued me, she was a neighbor.
I can still feel her love...it was intoxicating because it was so soothing and rich compared to my mom's toxic love but it created a dynamic or hardwiring in me for forbidden love in later life.
You see as much as I wanted to drink in this lovely warmth and caring hispanic's love and attention for me I could not because of the threat it posed to my survival -- I needed my mom to survive, no matter how toxic her love was.
But I did let the woman's warmth and care for me in...I can feel it...the soothing of her care of me, treating me like I was precious, not projecting, nurturing me with joy, taking delight in me...it was all good.
She was one of many people who gave me a foundation of love in my early developing years. If it were not for her and others, that were capable of genuine love, I most likely would not be as healthy has I am today.
Lise
Yah, it was the girlfriends who cared about me. I know the reason I had a hard time with it was my seriously low self esteem, which was most likely the result of my mother's treatment towards me. I can't yet make the connections of how what she did impacts how I am today, but I know it just had to. She made me feel horrible, and I suppose when I was feeling so horrible I didn't feel anybody cared that I felt that way... seeing as the ones around me were the ones making me feel that way. Its probably why I have a hard time opening up and sharing any feelings I run across. My parents weren't there to comfort me.
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Hi Darren,
Perhaps you felt guilty or frightened to let the real love in due to the comfort zone of your parents toxic love and the fears that letting in new healthy love could generate...loyalty is an issue for me to.
Low self-esteem was and is a battle for me too.
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Ya Ami,
I have. I felt really loved by my parents and sister,friends,extended family.
Cuddles on the couch with my mom under her arm pit. She would tickle my legs.
When I was sick being comforted, rocked, or just sit and watch a movie.
Being taken out of shool every day for lunch instead of eating those nasty school lunches in the lunch room. While eating my sandwich's in the diner having many talks with my mom.
Being surprised when she turned my play room (one side of the wall) into a play kitchen with even a hand drawn window.
On her way home from work always bringing my favorite ice cream cone for me.
Making home made clothes for my Barbie's. Made her a mink stole (real)
When my best friends Mother died we were in 8th grade. Her father was already deceased and she had to move with her Grandma, pretty far away. I was so sad. My friend was so sad. My mom saw my heartbreak and my friend came to live with us until she graduated. Then gave us both a party.
So many things Ami,
My sister, my big sister, my really cool sister.
Always sticking up for me outside.
Always included me
Held my hand when walking to school.
Took me to the park
Ate lunch with me and my mom
My Dad,
Rushed my found kitten to the vet, paid mega bucks, trying to save her. He also brought her a bell for her neck so I could hear her coming, forgot about that.
Walked me to school when he was on vacation. Held my hand, did the lunch with us.
Always had my jelly donuts on Sunday, Bacon too.
Take me to the candy store for egg creams.
Baseball games.
The park along with any of my friends,
Rode bike with me.
Went to museums on his days off where we bought a model and put it together.
Heh, I remember asking him while holding his hand if there was really such a thing as Godzilla. He said only in the movies.
Took him about a week or two to convince me there was none.
Ami,
I felt this with my friends also.
Till this day I will sit on the couch with my friends and lay my legs across them or put my head on their should if I'm sad or tired.
When I had traumas they would show up come hell or high water from everywhere and leave everything when there was a crisis.
They have left a wedding party when my son was injured (and I did not call) because I knew they would another friend called.
They would give a kidney if I needed one without question.
They would be in the hospital before I was.
They were just there (no matter what) We were all there for each other (no matter what)
and our children are bonded too.
I teased one, saying, oh G (my son) he's your boyfriend, do you love him. And my heart went all warm when she said, No, he's not my b/f but I do l love him he's my friend.
Ami hon, all the above makes me feel loved. You don't have to get love from your family to feel loved. Others will love you too.
There are people you can feel loved with who truly love you (for you). You deserve this. Your a very loving person.
Love
Deb
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As a kid I think I felt loved by my dad.
Nowadays I feel sweet love from my kids, and even from the kids where I teach. I feel love from my husband, although sometimes I have a hard time accepting relationship love. I feel loved by my Mom-in-law... and realize how I should have been loved because of her. I feel loved by my best friend who lives down the street. I feel a lot of love nowadays and I am very happy remembering that. Thank you for remindin me.
Love, Beth
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Well, shoot, this is a really easy one for me. No, I never felt loved and, realistically, I know I never was loved. Now I admit when I was younger, I thought I may have been loved, but that's because I just assumed kids were loved by their families. But I realized it was just a false image....Ns are not capable of love and co-dependents aren't really either--they're too caught up with always pleasing the N.
I never had friends or boyfriends or children who loved me...But this is what I find interesting. It is not my own perspective of myself, but that shared by doctors I have been to as well. They've always acknowledged that they are surprised at how large my capacity for loving others is....They note that even though I haven't had the experience of being loved, I understand what it takes to love others. But for me, love has always been a one-way street, unrequited you might say. Perhaps it's because we are always focused on others that we have this capacity for loving others. But like so many others have said, we never learned what it's like to BE loved...No hugs, no spontaneous "I love you!s" No affection...No "you're the greatest!" Not even as children...Ns are incapable of it..they're too selfish....And because you're so lacking in self-esteem, you are not able to love yourself. How can you when you look around the world and see no one else cares about you?
So the short answer is noooo...
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Gabben - what a shocking story. How in the world did you remember this? I am so glad that you are able to piece this memory together. Like Sunblue, I always thought I was loved until my late 20s and early 30s and my father began to disintegrate and my own marriage floundered. Then I began to realize that I had never experienced love. but back to you Gabben. I do understand now that growing up with N parents meant that noone could intervene and offer me love. For years and years I wondered why noone ever did but now I know that no one could.
How have you resolved that conflict of having felt love and yet having to reject that love for toxic love? I am still learning how to let go of that toxic love and replace it with what I imagine love would really feel like. For me it is only through my imagination though perhaps one day even that will change.
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Ami,
I find it hard to love and can't ever remember feeling loved. It seems like it's a viciious cirle. I"m not lovabel, oh someone loves me, what can be wrong with them if they do, drive them away because they must be more damaged than me. N was one of the few people I truly felt I loved, but again I loved what I thought he was, not what he really was. He kept me at arms length and Never really let me close, was that the attraction.
Sorry, just ranting, no I have never felt truly loved and envy those that appear to have that connection. Not just in love relationships. but in any kind of deep relationships.
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I felt real love once. He was crazy in love with me and I with him. It did not stand the test of time but it felt good way back when. Then I started looking for love through sex and became one of those throw away party girls. I have felt love from my friends. And from my kids-and I know they felt love for me. Mom? Conditional love. Dad? Love in a weird way-when he can get past his anger at my mom lip love for me and my kids comes through.
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I can relate - resonate with - identify with - rings a bell - strikes a chord; with me personally.
Bee's posting --
No 'hug time' with my mother and In childhood, I felt loved by the same siblings (all younger than me), especially the little ones who I mothered. Not by my parents, though. The effect: I'm not rooted.
Izzy's posting --
but it was all a con because he was 'reading' me from our conversations
Leah x
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Thank you Bee, Darren Lise, Deb, Beth, Sun, Izzy, GS, Alone, Kelly and Leah.
I learned so much .
What struck me about love was the foundation ,which it can provide or not provide. Love Ami
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for a long time, I resisted feeling love because it HURT too much... the deficit from before; the love that should've been there...from my parents.
That's a wound I've been paying special attention to healing.
Amber,
This was a powerful line for me and it put well into words the grief I have been experiencing, a sort of overall grief at the loss of love and the loss of my voice.
Your line above really helped me to see it in a different truth, or light, there is pain in embracing genuine love because it touches the wounded hollowness of our hearts. As I write this I get the emage of ice and the extreme of heat....for me, the pain is the pain of intensity.
I'm working my way through your threads and reading....my heart and mind have been quiet lately but I am taking in what people write here.
Peace,
Lise
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Hi Ami, very interesting thread. I think that it depends in what is the concept of love for the person. Some times, twisted parents make believe children twisted concepts of love and when they grow up they look for the twisted concepts of love in other adults.
In my case, I would be happy with being welcome. Just that. That would be enough.
Many people, after a difficult childhood, they feel like Goldilocks. I dont remember how to spell it. Too hot, too cold, too hard, too soft, and they do not feel comfortable anywhere.
Thank you for your idea Ami. I only feel loved by my son. He is the onlyone who loves me unconditionally. And I love him back unconditionally.
Only God and parents can give unconditional love. Unconditional love is indispensable. We are human and after divine love we need human love too. And if we grow up with parents who always condition their love to something, we grow up confused, very confused.
Thank you Ami, love to you and all dear freidns in the board.
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Dear Amber,Lise and Lupita,
Thank you for your responses. I really love this thread, too. Hugs, Ami
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I was talking to my Aunt ,last night. I was asking her if her D's felt a tortured sense of being insecure,as I do. She said,"No."Her D's are successful and very sweet and humble.One travels all around the world, often alone. They meet life, as it is. They ALWAYS have my Aunt there, as a root. My Aunt was telling me how her youngest D is pregant and she goes to the doctor with her ,helps her with her other son etc.My Aunt is there, always, to give love and guidance. Can you imagine how wonderful that would be?
My Aunt said if her D's were ever abused , she would open her house to them, as a "normal" parent would---bleh--NOT side with the abuser, as mine did.
I really can't imagine the type of security my Aunt's love would give to her D's. My GM loved me like that and I DID have a security when she was alive.Life seemed like it had a right and wrong, up and down. After, she died,my "compass" died ,too, in a way. I would never have been abused as long as she was alive. She would have helped me or demanded that my M and F did.
I have had love from my GM and other extended family.
I guess my M's love was predicated on my being weak, and I became weak.
Sick love pushes you to your worst,in order to recieve it.
Healthy love allows you to unfold. Love Ami
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Hi Darren,
Perhaps you felt guilty or frightened to let the real love in due to the comfort zone of your parents toxic love and the fears that letting in new healthy love could generate...loyalty is an issue for me to.
Low self-esteem was and is a battle for me too.
Thanks for the advice, Gabben. In the past I think I did feel both frightened and guilty of love and didn't allow it to happen. I was afraid of failing at it. Nowadays though, its a little different. I'm not interested in love or forming any relationships, but I don't feel the fear and doubt that I did in the past. I hope to figure out why I stopped being afraid yet still don't seek out loving relationships. Maybe I just got so used to all that fear and guilt that I don't notice I'm feeling it anymore.
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Dear Darren,
Intimacy(in to me you see) is terrifying when we have beem abused. We bought the lie that we were bad. The last thing we want is to open ourselves up to s/one and for them to see that we are bad, too.
As we heal and see that we are not 'bad"(slow as hell-lol), we can take small risks to let a trusted friend see us. Then, we slowly see that we were not bad, just told that by abusers for THEIR good, not ours. Love and Hugs Ami
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I think it is scary to feel loved, when you have believed that you are NOT lovable. You have a cognitive dissonance. You believed you were not lovable so you could believe your N parent was "right". You needed to believe that or the world would "implode". So, you take the "truth" that you were an unlovable, shameful person and your parent was right. Then , the world has 'harmony", but you are in trouble.
You have a belief system which wants to stay "stable". That is what cognitive dissonace is about. You reject what does not fit your original beliefs so you can have consistency .The human craves order in their belief systems, I guess.
For me, as I am loved, I get "screwy" sometimes. I want to reject it and make my original beliefs true(I am worthless). I have to leave my whole history with my M behind. It was all a lie, if I am worth s/thing, after all.
Then, I feel tremendous anger at what she did to me. She convinced me I was worthless ,when I was not. My belief sysytem gets turned upside down.
Then, I have tremenous anger at her for fooling me. In fact, I could kill her for the lies she gave me.That is where I am ,now. She taught me I was worthless . If I believe otherwise, my whole set of childhood beliefs must come crashing down.
With them comes ALL the anger, rage, and pain that went in to their construction.
The anger I feel at my M for forcing me to reject myself is tremendous.
Ami
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Does anyone have this happen? Am talks of her mom not letting her note in when her H was abusing her. My M has sided with the abuser twice in my life but she did it so subtley and then blamed my brother and I for our unreasonableness and never took ANY responsibility for what she did. That is what hurt so much-this betrayal and then denial of wrong doing.
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Dear Kelly,
I think the factor that made me give up on life and set me up for abuse WAS the betrayal by my parents and the siding with my abuser against me.It was a blow that knocked me off my feet.
When my M would not help me when I was being abused and THEN sided with him, I had no reason to really go on, if I was that worthless that my own M would let me get abused and not care. Then my H told me I was worthless, too, of course.
When your own M betrays you, it is a very,very deep cut.
My M ONLY just stopped,a few months ago.
I told you how I got in her and my H's faces and would not back down. Now, she is on my side, but it was purely from being beaten down by me. She would not have done it on her own.
She realized that the gig was up with abusing me. The game was over. The 'stupid" person(me) learned and woke up. My H is the same way. He is so "good" to me, BUT the real him is still an N, who willget me when (of if )I am weak ,just as my M will.I have to than Janet for the training in martial arts(LOL)
Ami