Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: James on April 02, 2008, 07:12:18 PM
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i have not seen my N parents since Christmas. I saw them twice this week . Today while i was over picking up something i left there N mom started to tear me apart because of my political views. They are both hard core Republicans and only watch CNN. I could not believe the pent up hate and anger she showed towards me.... it was shocking. She has this phony motherly look but behind this she is truly a monster. I know who they both are now and they hate me even more for this. This crazy woman told me how much they loved me and how well i was treated as a child, she said i know i beat you too hard and hurt you when you were little but i still loved you. N/sociopath dad just acted like nothing was happening and made himself look big by saying how good it was to see me and carrying on trying to prove what a great guy he is. Its been that way forever. One of them lowers the ax and the other tries to look like the good guy just for their own sake. It's like some strange type of feeding frenzy. Neither of them really cares abt us 3 kids. They use everyone of us only for what they can emotionally take. After coming out of my delusional state (thinking i was loved) sometimes my old need for love makes me think they have changed and i wander back in but it only winds up being the same old story. I left as soon as i could but i sure felt a lot of anger/ helplessness and sadness. It still hurts knowing what they are and what they did to me. Their lack of love and empathy is enough to make anyone sick. Sometimes i really have to wonder how i survived these monsters. But then i do know how. I feel like a fool thinking that they might have changed a little. I just wanted to be loved. I know it must sound horrible but i look forward to the day these people are gone for good. I need to be more careful in the future when i have the feeling that they might have changed a little......James
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Oh James
I go back to my M, over and over, as anyone can tell you on the board. Love is such a need and we want it so badly. Human's need it,like food.
Any person would do what you did(IMO)
They probably do hate you even more ,now, b/c you are "seeing" them and the last thing they want is that.
It is NOT your fault, James.
I will write, later. I have to go, now. Love Ami
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Ami....i do see other people on the board doing the same thing, i guess i just got a little to confident that i could not be hurt by them again. It really isn't as bad as it used to feel but it still stings. I do see the hate growing even though its thru their phony smiles and the worst of it is they are trying to sabotage me with my sisters now. I have learned to carry a big stick around dad because he is capable of violence if he gets mad enough. I might have to do the same with mom, i've just never seen so much hate coming from her. It wasn't just the political differences that sparked this. I sense she has been been waiting for a good excuse to unload on me and she did. It will be quite awhile before they will see me around again........James
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Dear James
YOU are doing the cardinal "sin" of getting well and out of their grasp. The last thing they want to do is face their own evil. They will do all they can to push you back where they want you ie subservient.
You will experience MORE abuse ,as you try to pull away from their sick system(IME--in my experience)
Be ready, James.
You are worth so much, such a beautiful person, It is THEIR loss and they are too stupid to know it.
Love Ami
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Ami....you may be right. I'm rarely around them anymore but i have noticed if i give an inch the attacks are sneakier and more vicious. I don't back down any longer though and that makes them furious. It's a sad fact that i have to watch my back around these people....James
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It is SO sad that you have to watch your back, James. It is pitiful,but true. The worst enemies are our own parents-----beyond pitiful!!!
I am so sorry, James. Love and Hugs, Ami
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James,
Whoosh! When i read your post I instantly thought they sound like good cop/bad cop. Then I looked it up. Take a look at this part.
Good Cop/Bad Cop, known in British military circles as Mutt and Jeff (from an American newspaper comic strip of that name) and also called joint questioning and friend and foe[1], is a psychological tactic used for interrogation.
It involves a team of two interrogators who take apparently opposing approaches to the subject. The interrogators may interview the subject alternately or may confront the subject at the same time.
The 'Bad Cop' takes an aggressive, negative stance towards the subject, making blatant accusations, derogatory comments, threats, and in general creating antipathy between the subject and himself. This sets the stage for the 'Good Cop' to act sympathetically: appearing supportive, understanding, in general showing sympathy for the subject. The good cop will also defend the subject from the bad cop. The subject may feel he can cooperate with the good cop out of trust and/or fear of the bad cop. He may then seek protection by and trust the good cop and tell him the needed information.
Whoosh, doesn't this sound similar kind of the same tactics?
Listen don't ever feel a fool for thinking maybe they would change. It was a moment of wishfull thinking. You know deep inside they never will and what child did not want to be loved by thier parents. Sometimes parents just can't love and I'm sorry it happend to you.
Your still on the right track and yes James it still can sting. You deserved to be loved and you can and will be. You do what you need to do for yourself and if that means you not being around them, then, so be it. They are very abusive.
Love
Deb
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Hi Deb....The Good Cop/Bad Cop tactic might be in play here. I'm not sure though. Today was the first time i ever realized that this is something that has been going on forever, although usually its both of them against me. There have been plenty of times where i have seen one attack me then the other takes advantage and pretends to be on my side. It's clear the one on my side uses me for their own purposes mostly to look good or to get back at the other for grudges between the two. I'm just starting to have a grip on whats been going on but the more i see it is sickening. Mostly just emotional manipulation but in the past N dad has used the threat of violence and he is capable of this if he feels pushed too far. I took a closer look at what fool meant to me and i realized it was a milder form of me trying to sink back into the "bad kid" syndrome, all my fault kind of stuff. It's slowly sinking in that i have been something of an orphan at least emotionally with these two since i was born. It's not the easiest realization to digest but i do feel alot better about this compared to 6-8 moths ago. It sure does feel evil when i see this side..........Thanks Deb
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Dear James
It reminds me of "People of the Lie" by Scott Peck. He talks about "evil" as a diagnosis.
James, it is amazing that you retained your capacity for love(which you have),kindness, giving and caring. Yes, you are hurting,but you did not become a monster as they are.You are a sweet, sensitive person, who CAN claim himself from their clutches , with time and honesty.
How did your siblings come out? Are any N's or sociopaths? Ami
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Ami....i have two sisters one is married to a lovng man and has two boys. His love has carried her away from my FOO mess and she's starting to see reality but she has much denial. She blamed me for years for creating problems in the family and i resent her for that. I could be angry and act out but what she did not see was that everyone was using me as the scapegoat including her. I rarely see her. She has never apologized for any of the hurtful comments she has made thru the years. My other sister is divorced and has one son. He just got out of prison for drugs in Nov. She is in total denial of everything and refuses to listen to any of the truth. we rarely speak now. Its sickening to see her being used by them and swept up in their lies but there is nothing i can do. I have tried and this pushed her away. I still worry about her and we were close for years. She may blame me for the big family upset but i'm not sure..............Thanks Ami
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Dear James,
The "scapegoat " is JUST that----the one everyone blames for all the family pain. It is the WORST family position, it would seem.
However,there was a discussion on the board, a long time ago, about the scapegoat vs golden child.
Some people thought that the scapegoat had the most chance of getting better b/c he was in less denial .
I don't know,BUT I know YOU were not damaged to the core. Your core is still there and is beautiful. Love Ami
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James I'm sorry they continue to suck just as much as ever. I truly believe that your mom just used politics as a convenient excuse to attack you. If it wasn't that it would be something else, I think. It's so sad that your sisters have not progressed as far as you. When I read where people find support and validation with siblings, it's so moving. I'm in the same situation as you with my sibling. It seems really powerful to me that you can see their ownership of their own behavior. To me it's like, yes you got 'roughed up' by being near them, but you didn't take a dose of the poison of believing in them. That's the really bad stuff. Does that make sense?
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Hi Izzy..........it has been only in the last year that my therapist told me they were N. I did a lot of reading and sure enough it's them. I asked her not too long ago if my heavy dissociation will ever leave...her reply was "i think so when you finally see who your parents are"....thats making more sense as time goes on. The image of a puff of smoke fits what i imagine may happen to my feelings towards them. This is the last thing i wanted but i see no other way out now. as you know its painful when its your own parents..........Thanks James
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Iphi...........I am sorry you have the same thing going on with your siblings, this makes everything so much harder when you don't have family members to offer understanding and support when you need it the most. My therapist said "you were born into the wrong family" sound like you were too. You're image of poison rings a bell....i swallowed their poison in the form af a nasty illusion of love.....thats gone now but i still seem to be spitting out pieces of it. Isn't it easy to be sucked back in when they are acting nice. Its still almost beyond me that people can really be like this.....hope you are doing well James
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I'm doing alright James (just sleeeeeepy). It is so easy to be sucked back in. I guess we should consider them experts at what they do, since they do it all the time. Like they say you can't really beat a car salesperson because they know all the tricks and practice them every day. I hope you are feeling progressively better every hour following your recent escape from N-land! Nighty night.
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Much, much real love to you
(((((((((((James))))))))))))))
Reality hurts. But it is your friend.
It may take a few repetitions, but when you take this reality all the way in and absorb it completely, there will be no more bitterness. Like an unsafe dog, they are human and unfortunately, this is their nature.
Once the reality is your friend, James you will find real love, healthy love. You'll find it, create it, attract it, build it. You can make a family of friends, find love, build a good good life.
love
Hops
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Hi Hops......thank you for those strong words of encouragement and hope. I'm not quite there yet but i have always had hope that i would make it and i will. I feel a lot better these days and it is because i am coming to terms with reality even though it doesn't taste so good at times. I empathize with the problems your having right now. On several different fronts...thats got to be tough. When i read about the situtation with your brother my blood ran cold just like it does around my family members. He sounds like a real jerk to say the least inhuman would be a better word. You mentioned that your mom had some idea of bad news? does she know whats going on and if so how will this affect her? I hope tomorrow is a little brighter for you. Lock those doors and let your attorney do the work........Best, James
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J I have found that to have a different opinion than my mom's is to show her disrespect. She cannot stand to have me think for myself. It is too late mom! I have thought differently than you for YEARS! DECADES! Good for you for not seeing them since Christmas. Now do not see them until Thanksgiving. Or say something like "I will not speak so you until you can tone the edge in your voice down."
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Dear James,
I think we HAVE disbelief that our parents could be that bad. It is beyond belief, when you think about it. I still have disbelief over and over ,again. Our parents are so familiar to us that we can not see them like we could strangers. The familiar pull of "Mom-Dad" and some good times ,blind us to the truth and we WANT to be blinded, too.
Who wants to face N's /or sociopaths, as your own parents?
For me, I always yearn for s/one else's parents and I still do. This is bad. It is a theme I have had my whole life.
James, you are getting clearer and clearer thinking, as time goes on. Trust youself. You have good perceptions!You have a good core to "dust off" and build. Love Ami
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overcomer..............thats sound advice. I am getting an early Christmas present from them this year. They leave at the end of May to go to their other house until after Christmas. 1000 mi away. We children usually flourish when these two are gone at least i do.......................thanks James
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Ami..............it really is just disbelief. The more i understand myself and who they are, this disbelief i am recognizing as the deeper shock that i've been in all my life. Most children raised with parents like this must experience something similar. It simply seems to defy the laws of nature IMO..... although i have heard of other species who eat their young........hugs James
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Fish eat their young! Ami
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Something interesting has happened today. I found my rage at my NM. What a cold %$@$ this woman is and i have overlooked it all my life. I think she is the last member of my rotten FOO that i may have to come to terms with. I'm not sure i have ever seen a woman with more hate desguised in a "loving mother package". The anger i feel is deep and powerful, for the first time i really she who this woman is and i would hardly give her the honor of calling her "mother". My anger is for good reason and the more i experience it the more i see reality as it was. My refusal to see this before has caused a lot of mysterious confusion, but now i know for sure just who this woman is. It's all i can do to keep from picking up the phone and telling her what i think. I've been blind my whole life, when i think of the beatings, humilations, betrayls, letting that monster of a dad maul me while she stood by without lifting a finger. I am so mad, more than mad. She has done nothing but use and abuse me, especially the emotional sexual abuse. No more feeling sorry for her. She never has been on my side she just used me anytime she pretended to be concerned and offered aid. In reality she has only been sucking me dry and nothing else. I feel totally betrayed and used. Its going to be difficult the next time i see her to contain my anger. How does one deal with anger this intense? It's bad enough to see what happened but to keep this in to spare her feelings or to not make a scene seems unfair and cruel after a lifetime of abuse. I raged at dad when i got to this point, but with mom, how does one deal with rage at a evil motherlike this?.................James
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Oh James
HOW do you deal with that level of rage? The first thing I thought of was stay away from her b/c you could lose it. I guess the first thing to do right now is realize that the rage won't kill you or make you murder her(but still stay away, just in case---lol)
I think that writing about it helps. That is what I do. I don't bang things or scream. Maybe, I should.Some people do.
I exercise when I have too many emotions.
I wish I had more helpful things to say.
I love you, James. Neither of them could destroy you. You will survive and thrive, just as *I* am(ask me on a good day only --lol)
James, keep writing. Call your therapist if you can. In my old days , I used to call hot lines when I needed s/one to talk to.
Just survive for right, NOW.
Just survive ,for right now, is what I think is the best thing to do. What do you think? Love You, Ami
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Can you rage at her on paper? Then re-read it as many times as it takes to let the rage dissipate safely? Or burn it? Or put it away? Or some other ritual.....
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Ami/Juno.......i haven't made the mistake of calling her at least yet. I don't think that would be wise right now. writing might help and i have a friend who possibly would listen to what i have to say. Last time this happened was at dad and i did cut lose on him. It really helped. It feels like thats the only way to satisfy this but i am going to refrain. At least i really see who she is now and whats been going on...........Thanks James
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Hi James:
It's so awful. I too went back and back. And it was always the same, Great to see you, let's all have a drink, and eventually my F would unload. Anything could trigger a rage. One weekend I visited him and--this is not an exaggeration--we had to watch the Weather Channel. The whole time. It was a standoff. He's a rabid Republican as well though he waxes poetic on other subjects: Jews, gays, blacks, Christians (he's right wing but despises all religion), women, you name it. Finally I moved three thousand miles away, got a new job, a new life, and started thinking about something really hurtful he once said to me as a child, which was: You'll never love anybody, you aren't capable of it. At some level I realized even then he was talking about himself but at some level I also believed it. So finally I just thought this: I don't love you. I will accept the possibility that you did the best you could with what little humanity you possess, and I will accept the possibility that you just chose to be a rabidly destructive ass, but that's your deal now. And the thing is, the tables do turn. There's a point after which our parents need us, more than we need them.
Hang in there. Hope you find peace. I've gone through so much rage in my life, I totally hear where you're coming from.
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Dear James
IF you do tell her how you feel, I would do it over the phone, rather than in person. I would call s/one and talk, if you can. That will help, too, I think. Love Ami
(((((((James)))))))))
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Gjazz..................I like your comment "i don't love you". I am getting to that point myself. In fact the more i realize whats been going on i am wondering if real love is even possible with people treating someone so badly. It just seems to go against the laws of nature and when i violate this law i feel that old confusion etc setting in. Today is a rage day for me...................Best, James
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Dear James
I was feeling a stomach ache ,today, and thinking it was b/c I was going against myself. I have confusion when I go against myself, too. Hugs, James Ami
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James:
To me, there is something worse than hate, and that is hatred masquerading as love. A child has no defense against that. I think it's fine to say of a parent, "I don't love you." In my case, I also say, "I will be there as best I can," meaning, my needs will now come first, but I'll try to be more caring than you are. BUT. I have rage days too, even after all this time. The good news is, I have fewer and fewer, the more I can take responsibility for everything in my life, and that just means limiting--severely--the access my NF has to my world.
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Gjazz..........that makes a lot of sense what you say "hatred masquerading as love". I see a lot of that in my family the"for your own good type stuff" as a kid and then it transformed into adult versions as i grew older. I have put a lot of distance between me and my parents the last yr and it helps me but it sure makes them mad though. Both my parents are N and work as a team. I have been wondering recently what will happen if one of them passes. My fantasy is that the one remaining will still remain a N but maybe they will become a bit nicer. I have seen that happen before. I've been doing research tonite on the net finding different ways to handle anger as its brought up in the course of therapy. There doesnt appear to be any solid clear cut consenses on this.........James
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James:
Yes. Turning people against themselves--making them party to their own destruction--is the ultimate high for an N. It was for mine, and you have two. Yikes! That's really terrible. In my case, my father is a rampant misogynist, and I was the only girl (except my mother, also known as a girl). He loves setting women against each other, and against themselves. Sounds like your parents were trying to set you up to do some of their destruction for them. You gotta admit, those Ns are thrifty. But take care. Be a good friend to yourself, the one you'd most want someone else to be.
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You gotta admit, those Ns are thrifty.
Thanks for the smile, GJazz.
You gotta admit, those adult children-of-Ns are SMART.
(Once we figure it out--and get past the tsunami--there's no stopping us. We WILL heal.)
xo to all and ((((((James))))))
Hops
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We'll heal and I think that we become what is known as 'tough customers.'
8)
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Dear Gjazz,
My counselor, Ann, showed me how my M wanted to "steal" my aspirations , so she could pull me down to her level(child's level and bratty one at that-lol)
She humiliated me when I aspired to anything higher in life such as character, being generous, loving,kind, etc. She wanted me to be like she was.
I gave up ,in life, b/c I DIDN"T want to be like she, and felt guilty about being the way *I* wanted.
N's raise children in the opposite way of a normal parent, who WANT the child to be the best he can be, NOT the worse, so the N feels better--BLEH Ami
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((((((((((((((((James)))))))))))))))
I am right with you - just got through the visit with NM but not able to talk about it yet.
Don't they just try to make us completely insane????? Doesn't it suck to have crazy parents?????
Lots of love,
Beth
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Dear Beth.................Yep it does suck, and they do try to make us crazy. Talk when you feel up to it and maybe sharing here will help. I feel for you..............Love, James
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Beth:
Yeah, and we had that classic reversal thing too, the child becoming the parent. My M married my NF because, in my opinion, she never wants to take responsibility for ANYTHING, she LIKED that he was so controlling. I mean, she didn't see all the writing on the wall, instead she thought, Oh good, I'll putter in the garden and raise the kids, and he'll take care of money, everything else. And of course he took care of nothing except himself, and took all the money too, forcing her to step up a bit, as she had four small kids, but she still always, always, turned to me. "How should I cut my hair? What should I wear? Is this color OK?" She wanted to retreat into a child's role and believe me, she's still at it. There's another sort of interesting aspect of this avoidance, and it's that she never even takes responsibility for what she says or does. It's always, ALWAYS, "I did A, B or C because it will make A, B or C happy." If you ask her what she wants she goes totally blank. In the immortal words of Gertrude Stein, "there's no there, there." Nobody home. She has this martyr complex a mile wide.