Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: darren on April 03, 2008, 06:12:03 PM
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I posted the following somewhere else, but I thought I'd share it here since I always seem to find someone with insight or someone to identify with. It has to do with a rage and anger and how I don't handle it very well. I've been very angry the last few days and its kinda toxic and contagious. I always feel like I'm going overboard or not standing up for myself, but rarely in between. Sorry I don't have a lot of positive things to share...
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Basically, an employee called me up looking to have troubleshoot an issue she was having with her email. Its been an ongoing issue in that she's convinced that there is something wrong with our server and it keeps turning out she isn't using her program properly. I could care less if its the servers fault, or if its user error. But she's been getting increasing paranoid about her email and when asks for help, she exaggerates the issue and lies about what is occurring. When she called the last time she told me she had multiple emails that weren't going through, and the truth was that it was just one. By telling me its multiple emails it leads me to start trouble shooting the issue on the server and not bother checking for possible problems that might occur if its just one email.
So, I sent her a firm email letting her know that I was aware she was exaggerating and not to do it because it wastes time. She called me and told me I was rude and then sent me a nasty email afterwards and carbon copied it to the company president. I can understand that she might take the reprimanding as rude, but I have a right to correct employees if they are doing something wrong. Furthermore, she didn't admit to the mistake or recognize that lying to me wastes my time and might upset me, and concentrated on my rudeness instead. Because I know she's been having a habit of exaggerating, I had the problem fixed almost instantly... but lying to me about the symptoms involved could lead to a lot of time spent looking in the wrong direction.
So I'm p***** off, royally. I'm sure that I have a right to be. The company president stopped by my office to say goodbye as he left for the day, and I mentioned his employee was a bitch and that I was about to pop off another rude email to her. He agreed that she is bitchy, and found it humorous, because I've been known to write some historic company memos when I get upset. My last company memo was a threat to all employees that if they surf and download porn on my network that I just might send copies of it to their mothers.
But despite me being upset for perfectly good reasons, I just seem to dwell on the issue and find it hard to think about anything else. The anger just about consumes me and I can't stop thinking about it. I'll think about it all day, and as I fall asleep, and even when I wake up. I imagine in my head fighting with her and giving her a good verbal lashing. Their could be a connection there with my childhood, in that I had to learn to defend myself verbally at a very young age, or because I was attacked in the same way.
And the anger is toxic, and it bring back anger I have from the past... such as my ex girlfriends friends. I'm p***** all over again that they considered me an abusive person and didn't recognize that my exes behaviors were wrong. I'm p***** that they don't recognize that she has a problem, and that by ignoring it they are enabling it. They are promoting that she is just unconventional instead of psychotic.... p***** they keep making excuses.
And then, I'll get p***** at that teacher in elementary school who didn't let me get that second slice of pizza when all the other kids did. Now really, where the hell does that anger come from? I have lingering anger about a piece of pizza from childhood? Honestly, that seems a bit messed up to me. My brain just goes searching for all these things I might be p***** about and then I start fantasizing about fighting back and can't stop... until I wind down. That could be days or weeks.
I find it odd because even though my ex did horrible and terrible things to me, I somehow found a way to let that anger go and it doesn't hurt me anymore, and it never comes to mind again. Maybe that situation was so dire that I was forced to actually process the information in a healthy way. How can I be p***** about the childhood pizza and not care anymore about what my ex did to me?
I was p***** this way at my father too, but it doesn't seem to come to mind often. My mother's treatment of me probably has everything to do with it, but I don't recall or return to any stages of anger regarding that. Its random things that should matter, experienced by a kid who... even though bad things happened... seemed to be incredibly sensitive to the slightest things.
It also could have to do with the fact that I'm Schizoid, and I don't bother to share my feelings.... and its hard to process and validate thoughts without being able to bounce them off of others and make them concrete, stable, and real... if that makes any sense. Left to my own process, my thoughts are unstable and malleable. I'm very deficient when it comes to validating my own thoughts, but I've been able to accomplish it when backed into a corner and that survival instinct is taking over.
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Dear Darren,
Thanks for your post -- it was just what I needed, your honesty was helpful for because I have been in deep anger issues myself. It feels as if a knife was piercing my chest.
What I hear when I read your story is another story under the story which you conveyed, that this new drama with the woman as work reminds you of the old pain from your childhood.
Our buttons are going to keep being pushed, easily, until we work out the old conflict. The problem is not really the woman and her devious behavior, it is how you respond to it. She is toxic, not to invalidate that, but as we heal out the pain toxic people bother us less and less and eventually we stop attracting them into our world.
Last year I was processing some very rage-ful toxic stuff too. I know how it feels, it is hard for us to focus.
As I continued to move the anger and see my part in things, which is a huge key, I was able to eventually identify the pain under the anger as to see the anger as a defense against that old pain. The anger you are experiencing is Victim Anger.
Are you prone to blame yourself?
Compassion to you.
Gab
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Why yes, I am prone to blame myself. I take it thats its common with people like us? A while back I had found this about myself and though I was aware of it and stopped doing it, but I guess old habits die hard. I spent a long time in that last relationship of mine sabotaging myself, and though I knew better now.
I'm so flat with my emotions most of the time, but when my sensitivity does get reached I just go crazy. I can see how I'm prone to blame myself and be critical. There's definately a battle going on my head sometimes. There seems to be so many things my head can dredge up to still be angry about. I think if keep exploring and talking about the things that bother me, they'll have less power over me... and I'll just work my way back to the beginning.
Thanks for listening =) Its really helpful.
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Dear Darren,
I have been thinking about you and wondering how you were doing. I think that you handled the situation very well.
As an abused child, of course, you would have a hard time with anger. I think most people ,on the board, do(IMO).
We were not taught to handle anger or ANY other emotion, well. So, we do all sorts of nutty and self destructive things with it. I turned it inward and could not eat.
I think that it is perfectly normal for you to be "pissed off".Anyone would be who had your childhood and then adult choices based on childhood patterns.
I think that that was a witty thing to do about the porn, very funny.
Darren, you sound "normal" to me,in how you handle situations. That is how I see it.
I think that it is good that you reached out. You won't feel so alone ,I bet. Love and Hugs Ami
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I think that by staying in this train of thought you are wounding yourself again and again with the incorrect beliefs that you are reinforcing. Remember, anger is a response to feeling hurt.
My therapist used to tell me that-- well, let me see if I can explain this well at all-- but she said that when we form an incorrect belief based on something that happens to us early on-- such as, "I am an unimportant person"-- or something like that-- then every time something that happens that makes us feel unimportant it validates to us our original incorrect belief. So our feelings about the incidents escalate even when the incidents are fairly unimportant on their own, and every time one of these things happen all of the old incidences of feeling unimportant (or whatever) come up too . . .
Too break off that train of angry thought, try to stop feeding the incorrect belief. Tell yourself, repeatedly and firmly, a positive counter to your incorrect belief. (I do deserve. I am enough. I am a great person. Or so on.) And then try to recall or think of facts and incidents that support the TRUTH.
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I have similar issues with anger and being set off by particular types of jerks and particular types of annoying situations. I have always blamed myself for everything. Have always felt that I was RESPONSIBLE for everything. What a lot of pressure. Giving myself permission to talk about it here (on my stories thread) and also giving myself permission to feel angry without also making a fool of myself in public has helped with the healing process.
I have had special problems these past couple of years with being triggered at work by particular people. I haven't posted as much about it as I might have been tempted to. But after some really bad triggering by some really seriously troubled people I was forced to change the way I approach my job and my interactions with co-workers. It has taken over a year to feel comfortable with the changes I have made. I am still having trouble with the particular person who triggers me. But I have been able to get a little bit of support from a couple of other co-workers who are willing to see what I am talking about at least. That helps.
I like your emails you have sent to people :lol:.
Even though it seems like the pizza incident or others like it in childhood were "trivial", they were not. These instances offended your sense of justice and fair play and made you feel worthless. Probably reinforcing what your parents made you feel like. These instances cut you to the quick. I don't see anything wrong with writing about them and analyzing them here. Possibly purging them in the process. Making these important connections and giving proper due to the injustices you suffered will be healing.
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Hi Ami, thanks again for your support. =) You are right, I have been feeling a little better since I got it all written down and out there. I'm not sure if I'll ever see myself as normal...I've always been a bit eccentric, but it doesn't have to be a bad thing. I'm sure I'm like just like everybody else, sometimes I just go off the charts with certain traits.
Chamomile, you are quite right too and I appreciate you pointing it out. I know , so that my train of thought gets off track and isn't good for me. It sounds like you have a bright therapist. I remember practicing things like that in the past successfully, so thanks for reminding me of it. I really do feed those negative beliefs and have a hard time reinforcing the ones that say nice thing. Goodness, I treat myself the worst out of everybody I know =) That is really great advice and I'll think about what you said next time I go through something. My inner critic is just so overwhelming... there's a little narcissist in me that just doesn't want to let go of those bad feelings or stop thinking about how wronged I was.
Hi Juno, thanks for your comments, too. I suppose I should let myself get angry, too. Looks like a lot of us are in the same boat. I don't usually have that many problems with my coworkers, but I tend to hide out in my office all day. I'm quite adept at avoiding people. But they sure can get annoying with office politics and all, and my girlfriend has been complaining all week about hers. My coworkers have just done some outrageous things... and I don't get how people can be so cruel sometimes. I'm sorry you're getting bothered at work... I used to get harassed at school and always dreading getting up and facing it everyday.
You're right, maybe its not so trivial. Back when I was a kid it was just a bunch of insecurity and worthlessness getting piled on day by day. Its a lot for a kid to handle. There are probably hundreds of little incidents and not so little incidents that I didn't deal with normally. I was a messed up little kid... I wonder why nobody noticed? I'll try to give some voice to the incidents that seem trivial. I just haven't figured out how to do it without feeding my anger even more... oh, well thats wrong, talking about it helped.
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My inner critic is just so overwhelming... there's a little narcissist in me that just doesn't want to let go of those bad feelings or stop thinking about how wronged I was.
This describes what has been, for me, the essence of the damage done by growing up in an N family. It is difficult to change those thoughts, to stop carrying those Ns around inside my mind. It is hard to let go of those bad feelings - as much as I hate them they are still my long term friends. RE: not thinking about how wronged you were - I actually think this can be helpful in pushing you on toward healing. I am angry about the way I was treated and I want that to stop. The only way I can stop it is to get those people out of my mind where I am keeping their abusive ways alive, all by myself.
I agree with many of the other posts. you have a clever sense of humor and sound very normal. Anger is not an uncommon issue but it is a pain to break out of. Who wasted your time when you were young and lied about their actions? Maybe that's who you are still mad at. And the pizza deal - did that teacher have a habit of doing such things to you or was there some other authority figure who was kind and generous to everyone EXCEPT you - the way the teacher was? I found in my life that these seemingly isolated painful memories were actually tied to profound wounds that I had buried deeply and lost contact with.
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Hi darren,
This is only one paragraph from a fairly long article. This paragraph seems to hit on your current experience.
If not, then deep six it, OK?
"Narcissistic rage occurs in many forms. They all share, however, a specific psychological flavor which gives them a distinct position within the wide realm of human aggressions. The need for revenge, for righting a wrong, for undoing a hurt by whatever means, and a deeply anchored, unrelenting compulsion in the pursuit of all these aims, which gives no rest to those who have suffered a narcissistic injury -these are the characteristic features of narcissistic rage in all its forms and which set it apart from other kinds of aggression."
Here is the link to the full article.
http://www.selfpsychology.com/papers/wolf_2001b_group_helplessness_and_rage.htm
Sincerely,
tt
PS I remember my bout with N rage. It's no fun. I hope yours passes soon.
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Darren--nobody noticed because it wasn't about them. Some of us are simply surrounded by Ns, or selfish, lazy, hurt people. Especially if you are being raised by these types. With me, the very few people who did notice I was in trouble and not doing well, just didn't have a clue what to do for me. And I sure didn't know how to get help for myself.
I live in an area that is in serious need of society-wide healing. One small example: we have lots of prisons here--one of the major employers. Children of prison guards don't always make the best classmates or friends, let us say. Just a lot of stuff like that I have noticed over the years as something of an explanation for why it seems the dysfunction is everywhere for some of us.
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I understand the pizza thing. I lived a cheer episode where a judge told me the sponsor rigged the try outs. Years of rage! And remember this any in fifth grade who the teacher chastised-25 Years later he told me he hated that lady. People are stupid plain and simple!
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This may sound convoluted - but I experience the same feelings as you - some incidents from the past seem as alive as they did that day. I finally got the concept that a lot of my anger stemmed from frustration at my lack of personal power. I was, in fact, physically blocked from everything I wanted to accomplish --- was having a hard time getting a job (still am), had no spouse, few friends, hated where I lived but had no $ to move, etc. That lack of personal power had been implanted in me by my NP's since earliest days of consciousness. As I grew older it blossomed into rage fueled by frustration and impotence. When I finally got clear about what was behind it all, I made a concerted effort to exercise SOME kind of power over my life and the nightmares stopped, the rage decreased. It was small things, like becoming aware and taking charge of things that made me physically comfortable - a good chair to read in, a good meal, a soft pillow. I had been denying myself those things, just as my NPs denied me those and just as I felt the "world" was denying me. It helped a lot.
Can you do things to add to your own comfort? Maybe it will help you, too.
towrite
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I woke up thinking about the pizza story. I took it into my own process and felt like the pizza experience was one in which you were humiliated, being singled out and mistreated in front of everyone else. That could have a devastating, long-lasting effect.
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Powerlessness, humiliation--those are big ones. No wonder seemingly small incidents gnaw away at us years later.
This is something that happened to my sister:
In fifth grade, a classmate's family installed an inground pool. They were exceedingly proud of this pool. The classmate decided to have a pool party to show off the new acquisition. Well, I imagine her nasty mother came up with this or her state trooper father. The entire class was invited--except my sister. This was done purposely. When the teacher found out, he insisted my sister be invited or no one in the class would be attending. So, my sister was invited. However, she no longer wanted to attend since she had been singled out previously. But if she refused to go, then no one could go either. The entire class pressured her to go and she had no option but to give in and go. It was an awful situation, created and made worse by the adults involved. The girl who was hosting the party was a very mean-spirited girl who lied constantly and was not very well-liked. But with this pool, she became somebody. With the party, all the awfulness got projected onto my sister. It was a mess.
My sister was not well-liked either. But she got trumped by the girl with the pool and the state trooper father.
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Darren,
I would write her back and email, and also copy it to the President. Explain in the email that you are charged with taking care of the server for everyone, and you attempt to help all with problems. Explain that if employees are having the same diffiulties over and over with logins, you would be happy to have her come by so that you can create a log-in sheet for her to help her through the proccess. I would mention how many times she has contacted you for help and what you did each time she contacted you.
You are doing the right thing. DO NOT let her bully you, Darren!!!!!!!!!!!
Love, Beth
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Wow, there's so many responses! Thanks everybody, I don't know if I can respond to everybody but its all very insightful.
Gaining Strength, thanks for the compliments. Honestly, thats the only thing that teacher ever did to me wrong and she didn't have a habit of being unfair to me. In fact, I was probably the teachers pet. I can't think of anybody in my past who wasted my time or lied about it, other than my ex girlfriend... who was a bonified psychopath. I'm sure there is a connection to something... perhaps its the powerlessness that others have mentioned.
Teartracks, you are hitting a nail =) I do believe I might have some Nrage issues, and deep narcissitic wounds. I'll read the article as soon as I'm caught up responding. If I remember, I have one to share to that helped in the past and I should revisit it.
Juno, I never thought of society as having an area wide dysfunction, but it makes complete sense to me. My ex girlfriend was toxic and over the years it made me toxic too. It made me realize my parents were toxic, and probably their parents, and the complex dynamics of relationships just keep these people passing it on all over the place. I never thought about it in from the perspective of a community, but that makes a lot of sense. I sometimes think I was meant for a small tribe like native americans or some such. It seems less damage would have been done when other people around can tack up the slack for others.
Overcomer, yes, the pizza incident was very unfair for her to do. Overall though, this particular teacher was good to me. I have some black and white thinking going on... in every other respect I was probably spoiled.
Towrite, I already mentioned it, but it does seem like powerlessness. I have other issues going on that I didn't mention, but those feelings of having no power are really tough on me. These last years I've been working on taking some of the power back and removing stressors from my life. I'm sure there are things I'm not taking responsibility for. Are there things I can do to add to my comfort? I don't know. Thats where I get weird. I'm melencholic and have a very hard time enjoying things, which doesn't give me an opportunity to relax. I think they would help if I could let go of some of the feelings that keep me distracted.
Gaining Strength, I did feel singled out. I remember every Friday was pizza day, and there was this one kid who always bought a second slice of pizza on that day and I was always jealous. There were always kids who traded and ended up with two pieces. I had asked my mother that morning if I could have money to buy a second piece and she gave me the money and said I could. The teacher overrode my mother. Its just weird that I'd still think about it today. There was much more abuse and humiliation that occurred in my life that never seems to come to mind. Whats up with that? If something so simple is lingering around, what happened to my thoughts and feelings associated with those other events?
Juno, thats some unfair treatment in that story. Kids sure can be cruel. I wish there were things society could do to protect children, seeing as some of us or so sensitive and devastated by things like that.
Gratitude28, I sent her another rude (but informative) email after her phonecall and email, but she responded with a "whatever... drop it... dang." She doesn't seem to recognize her role in the conflict. I think I'll let it go for now. Perhaps my attitude with her recently will make her think twice to give me more helpful info in the future. The president of my company is kinda odd in that he likes to stay out of my conflicts with other people... if anybody should have been complaining to the president it was me. Luckily, this girl is in sales, and is only in the office a couple of hours a week... and I'm the head of my department. She has dropped it for now though, so if it occurs again I'll think harder about an appropriate response. Its hard to do that when I get so angry.
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If something so simple is lingering around, what happened to my thoughts and feelings associated with those other events?
They get buried and hidden or they happen pre-linguistically or as a child they were misinterpreted and as an adult the correct interpretation does not allow for a connection (i.e. the memory doesn't seem shaming with an adult understanding so the connection is lost). This is one of the things that makes healing so very difficult. It is hard to get to all those wounding instances, hard to remember them hard to trace our pain back.
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(((((((((((((((((Darren))))))))))))))
Yes, then as long as you are covered and protected, try to avoid her and not let her "get your goat." Maybe you could figure out why she bothers you so much? Did you mention she reminded you of your wife (in her trickery?) Maybe if you can get to the root of why she bothers you, it will defuse the annoyance.
Love, Beth
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Just thinking of you, today, Darren. I hope you keep sharing . Love and Hugs Ami
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Gaining strength, I suppose I am seeing childhood events through the eyes of an adult now. I can see why its hard to deal with these hurtful events when you keep telling yourself as an adult they shouldn't matter any longer. Healing isn't an easy task at all, so I feel for all the people here doing it and going through these kinds of things.
Gratitude28, I wasn't married to my ex, she was just an ex-girlfriend. We lived together for about six years, so it was as though we were, but gosh... that wife word sounds scary! I took a trip around the office Friday to socialize a bit which I rarely do, and I ranted a tiny bit about the frustration she caused me. It didn't take any convincing at all, it seems everybody around the office has been affected by this coworker girl at some point in time. They had plenty of stories of their own to tell. Maybe one of my problems is that I have a hard time accepting that their are bad apples out there that make things difficult for people, I just want to make excuses for them.
Ami, thanks again {{{{Ami}}}}. I have gigabytes of things I'll eventually share.
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Dear Darren,
That is funny. "That wife word sounds scary".
I will be waiting for the gigabytes. I have them, too, and am starting on them,as you can see--lol. Love and Hugs , Ami
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Dear Darren,
That is funny. "That wife word sounds scary".
I will be waiting for the gigabytes. I have them, too, and am starting on them,as you can see--lol. Love and Hugs , Ami
=) Being married to my ex-girlfriend are the things nightmares are made of.
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Was it bad right away, Darren? Ami
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Was it bad right away, Darren? Ami
Was it bad right away with my ex-girlfriend? Yes, almost instantly she started treating me in the most awful ways. She had a way of being covert about it, and hiding her reasons for doing it, so I didn't catch on right away. She started cheating on me right off the bat, but even thats not the scary part. I could understand that somebody might fall for somebody else and make a mistake, and be too afraid or ashamed to come clean. But thats not what happened. This particular girl actually enjoyed the damage that such behavior caused people. She made is a point that both me and the other guy found out about each other in the most akward way, but inviting both of us to the same places so she could sit back and enjoy the chaos she was creating. I think I realize now that her intention wasn't really to hurt me at all, but to use me to hurt this other guy. Its something she did to me in the end also. But yah, she actually liked to torture guys psychologically. This is the part where most people ask me, "Why on earth did you stay with her?" Several times throughout the relationship she would make me think she was cheating on her when she wasn't, and turn around and tell her friends I was controlling and untrusting for no good reason. People just don't believe that there can be people out there who are completely void of empathy.
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Wow Darren,
I can see how you had a very bad experience . Not all women are like that,but it could sour you on them ,I could see that(lol).
As you heal, you will probably be more aware of signs which would signal s/one like she. Love Ami
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Wow Darren,
I can see how you had a very bad experience . Not all women are like that,but it could sour you on them ,I could see that(lol).
As you heal, you will probably be more aware of signs which would signal s/one like she. Love Ami
Yah, it did sour me a bit and I'm less forgiving for minor slights... such as lying or deception. I have learned to recognize the signs and keep those people out of my life. When I broke it off with my ex girlfriend, I also broke up my relationship with drugs, and all my friends who were bad influences and didn't treat me well. I don't have many people in my life now at all, but one decent person does more that several unhealthy people. My new girlfriend has nothing disordered about her at all... lots of sensitivity and empathy. Girls are definitely not all that bad =)
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Dear Darren
That is good that you have a nice g/f. You learned from your pain and did not repeat. That is really positive. Love Ami