Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Elaine1966 on April 04, 2008, 02:27:17 PM
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Hi to you all!
As some of you may know, I was planning a trip to the Dominican Republic over Spring Break to get away from my N-Fiance. Well, I thought I would write you all and give an update. We are still together as of today. I did leave and go to the DR and had a blast. About a week before I left, my fiance started changing his whole tune about me, him, and us. He has (at least for now) done a 360 turn. How long it will last......don't know! He is reading several books I recommended, he is going to counseling and has been treating me a like a queen. It has been really amazing to see this man transform into a decent man. Now....I am still in counseling and totally have my guard up, a part of me is just waiting for the bottom to fall out! He spent about a week apologizing to me over and over about his past behavior and treatment of me. His boys say they have noticed a change in their dad as well. They see him using techniques the counselor advises him to use. I am glad he is doing all this, but per my counselor, she thinks it is a matter of time before the old him will begin to appear again. At this point.....time will tell all!
I just live day by day and he is now fully aware that if I begin to see the "old him" come out....I will be gone in a flash!
Hope everyone, new and old, is doing well on the board. You guys have been great for me in my times of need and I thank you!
Take care,
((((((((((Elaine))))))))))))
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Elaine,
I am happy things seem better. But I wonder, do you really want to spend your life in a relationship waiting for it to turn bad? I sure as Hell wouldn't.
What happened with his first wife, since you said he has children?
Welcome home and lots of love.
Beth
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but per my counselor, she thinks it is a matter of time before the old him will begin to appear again. At this point.....time will tell all!
Unfortunately sometimes it is not time that tells all but an act of commitment. Some Ns may be capable of relatively decent behavior indefinitely until the target makes a nearly irrevocable commitment at which point he can revert to standard operating procedure.
mud
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Dear Elaine,
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I would look inside myself to see what in me caused me to be attracted to an N, in the first place.That would be the place to start, rather than if he could maintain his "changes" .
Many people would run so far away from an N that it would not be funny. There is s/thing inside us that causes us NOT to. I would investigate what that part was. Sorry for the "negative" answer, but that is how I see it. Compost what doesn't fit.
Ami
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WOW, you all are right! You pointed out some things that I didn't even think of! I am skeptical of his changes and do not think they are forever, but it is so hard to shut the door in his face while he is trying so hard. I have to see the "ugly N" again before I am convinced that he can't change. I always look for the good in people and maybe that is sometimes to a fault for myself.
Beth, you asked about his ex-wife, she was killed in a car accident. They were divorced at the time
I will keep you all updated.
Thanks for your insight, I am taking it all in.
Hugs,
Elaine
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Elaine,
I am sorry to hear that. It must have been very hard for the boys. How are they doing?
Love, Beth
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Beth, i wanted to respond to your last question. I am so sorry I have had computer problems and haven't had a chance to check the board. As far as "the boys" they are doing, Okay. They have their good days and bad days. This is one reason why i think I have had guilty feelings about leaving my Nfiance. Even though he is trying very hard to be a different person, a better person. I am really impressed with his efforts.
Thanks for asking.
Hope all is well to all,
Elaine
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Mud,
My experience exactly, the day I made the committment, Mr Damaged but Nice Guy disappeared and Mr Monster settled in for the games
axa
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Me too, Mud.
In my case it was my wedding night when Mr. Hyde appeared.
Worst night of my life.
Hops
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Sounds like me as well. My monster came out on the honeymoon-trapped on a boat! I spent the first year walking on egg shells then I pointed to the door and yelled THERE IS THE DOOR-WALK THROUGH IT! It has not been a able walk by any means since then but it has been better.
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Elaine......
I think he'll be good enough, long enough......
that when you do finally commit he'll think he can do anything to you....
and get away with it.
As good as the courting process feels.....
the next phase will be it's equall in strength.
The depths of pain and suffering..... with the added misfortune of watching his children go round and round in the middle.
Sending you strength to be happy on your own and make happy choices.
Lighter
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Hops, Axa and Overcomer:
What is so true with all that you say is I am so sure your all right but with him working so hard at being a better person, better partner etc., it makes it impossible to leave him. I am so happy with how he is currently treating me that I can't imagine leaving him. My counselor says, "well, you have to see it yourself." My counselor speaks with his counselor (he signed a release) and what is being said about him is that he is a very unhealthy man. His counselor has now officially diagnosed him as "N." She tells my counselor that I need to run the other direction. She thinks he will act and behave in this manner however long he has too until I am stuck with him (back under his roof or married to him).
I do understand all this, but how do you leave someone you love so much who is treating you like a queen, being very supportive, loving, caring and kind????? I just feel like I am living in the moment, day by day! It's very confusing and difficult.
Elaine
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Elaine,
Reading your last post just catupulted me back to being with XN. I also remember the "kindness" the"hugs" the "promises" and how seductive they were. I know I waited until I was nearly broken before I understood that I was worth more than a few crumbs to set me up for further abuse. My sense is that you so want him to be the person he is acting out at the moment. I almost sacrificed my sanity for those little crumbs mostly because I was afraid of being alone. I was convinced that I could not manage without him, that life would be too scary, this is part of the abuse. If you are anything like me you are watching and waiting right now. This takes up so much energy that it is difficult to have your own life, its like waiting for a ticking bomb to explode. How do you leave him? You leave him by leaving him - so simple and so, so hard. Leaving him means you face the sadness and pain, the loss of what might have been but really never could be.
I came on here before I left XN, knowing I would have to face the truth sooner or later, not wanting to, desperatly wanting to be wrong about him being an N but my gut was right. I wanted to avoid all of the pain and SHAME which was killing me. The irony was that, difficult as it was, it was not as bad as being with him. And there really is life after Ns. I know you can only do what you can do right now. My suggestion to you is to listen to your gut not your head rationalising his behaviour, read and read and read all about Ns, keep up the therapy, build up the most supportive network you can for yourself and pray that you get the strength to know you are worth more than being a plaything for an N.
Thinking of you and wishing you courage,
axa
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She's not responding to me but.....
she probably deserves more than an emotoinal terrorist placed in a positoin of trust in her life.
But wouldn't it be lovely if that kind of person.....
could change.....
just for us?
How special would that be?
Having a nice man,
be nice?
Any old somebody can have that.
Lighter
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I have a husband who treats me nicely all the time and whom I can completely trust all the time. I never wonder when he will "turn bad." I don't have drama, and I am so grateful for that. I also know I can be human and less than perfect with him.
I have never stayed with a man who would not love and respect me. I don't know why I have been blessed to not want that in my life.
In time, you will be miserable. Do you enjoy the drama? It sounds like it is a game for you - fun in some way?
Did you grow up with drama?
Love, Beth
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Dear Beth
What in you caused you NOT to repeat your childhood ,in your marriage. Is it a second marriage. Did you repeat your FOO issues n a first marriage?
Thanks Beth. I know this is a hijack ,in a way, but actually very relevant to the topic(IMO) Ami
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Axa, Lighter, Beth, Ami,
It really helps to hear all your insight, this is why I continue to write you. In the counseling that I have been in, we discovered that things that happened to me in my years between 12-15 have affected me in my adult life. I am very blessed to have the parents and family I have. But without going into a long drawn out ordeal, I was an accident in which my parents had to marry at a young age. My mother used to tell me how it was the worst time of her life and how embarrassed she was and how she had shamed her parents. Well, when you are telling your pre-teen this, it has a huge impact as I grew up thinking I was the embarrassment for my parents. There is a bit more to it, but my counselor thinks this is one reason why I feel I don't deserve to be happy and therefore go the type of men who are controlling, narcissistic etc. Also, when things do go too well, I subconsciously sabotage the relationship. We are working on these issues with myself as well as, I am also trying to figure out if I should tell my mother; however, she is going thru a rough time right now and I don't need to unload this on her now. My parents have been very good to me, like I said, I am very blessed and yes, they are still married today.
This may help you all to understand a bit about me. I just have to remember....I deserve to be happy, I deserve to be treated well!
Thanks to you all,
Elaine
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Ami,
I always wonder the answer to your question... sometimes I think it's because my dad respected me and treated me well. He made me feel strong, intelligent and able. Fortunately, I identified more with him than with NM. I really think that is how I managed to escape that type of relationship.
I had a 6 year relationship before I met my husband with a controlling (or rather, he tried to) guy. I treated him badly, I am embarrassed to say. I should have been a better person and just let him go, but I used him as a fall back.
I never did this again. I met my husband and we have been married, as I said, for 15 years. I have been reading Dr. laura's book on marriage lately, and I love the idea that you can be annoyed with your husband, and still think he is a perfect spouse. I have to say, there are some days when the air guitar and the farting and the dirty clothes all over the room make me want to live by myself in a cool flat in a city somewhere...
Maybe I did the FOO thing with the 1st boyfriend. Also early in my marriage, but we were both a bit broken and fixed ourselves together.
Elaine,
Did your mom tell you the story in the hopes of preventing you doing the same (i.e. to help you) or to hurt you and make you feel you were a bad thing in her life? Is there more to the story? This seems like very little to make you want to hurt yourself.
Love, Beth
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Dear Beth
I guess my problem was I married my mother(lol). Hugs Ami
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I can add this: my NF has been married three times. Three times the pattern has played out: great courtship, sweeps them off their feet. And they marry him and never find their footing again, until he finds someone else. His second wife has spent years battling addictions she didn't have until she met him. His third is stronger, and in fact younger than I am, but he still has control over her, their lives, the money. Always, the money. My M has spent the rest of her life trying to figure out what hit her, and she said it started on the wedding night. Jekyll and Hyde.
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Hi Elaine,
As much as we all here want to scream run and, we do, it does not mean you will or are ready too. I was the same. I know you feel like a Queen right now but it can/and most likely turn around to see Prince Charming is really a monster in disguise.
Keep your ears and eyes open. Don't' forget what you learn. Don't' forget to self protect and be ready, if and when it happens.
Having knowledge of N's and how they tick you are one step ahead, even if you are not ready to go yet, Gather all knowledge and if you must run this will help you soften the blow.
And Elaine, you are living in the moment, day by day, it's all about moments and they can change like day to night in a heart beat.
Love
Deb
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Elaine... not only are you worthy of respect and being treated well/fairly/with consideration.....
it's your responsibilty to take care of yourself and make happy choices.
Knowing what you know.....
not being able to walk away......
can you at least limit yourself to remaining unmarried to this man, while involved with him?
Just trying to limit the damage.... when it arrives.
Not a matter of if......
it's a matter of when.
Lighter
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Lighter,
*ditto to what you say*.
Love
Deb
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Ohhh, Beth...I want a farting husband who plays air guitar!
:lol:
(really. well, as long as he's not all-methane, all-the-time)
Hops
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Yeah, usually I decide to keep him anyways...
I wonder how he deals with living with me? Wonder what annoying things I do that make hm cringe - lol. I KNOW they don't include air guitar.
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Beth,
In answering your question, I am certain my mother was only trying to avoid me from making the same mistake she did; however, as a young child, I perceived it wrong and grew up with this feeling of "everything is my fault," I don't deserve to be happy," I am the embarrassment for my parents." Again, I am very fortunate to have such a great family, but things happened in my childhood that affected me and now I am learning that through my counseling. My counselor is now trying to work with me on I guess changing my perception of myself, which I know will just take time.
To all others,
Again, thanks for your words, it keeps me on my toes and reminds me to stay guarded every day. And Deb, you nailed it by saying I am not ready to leave especially when he is being so nice. And Lighter, I will say that I am not ready to set a wedding date with this man. He wants to get married and is only waiting on me, i am sure so he can back to his "monster" way and drop the charade, but I will say he is not pressuring me, at least not yet!
Hugs to all,
Elaine
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It's much easier to escape someone if you're not legally bound to them, Elaine.
Look around the board.... so many here have made that mistake.
I'm not sure you can ever get completely free.
You don't have to learn the hardest of hard ways.
As always, be careful.....
while you still can.
Lighter
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Lily.......oh Lily.
I cannot tell you adequately how HORRIBLE it feels to marry an N who's been wooing you so sweetly (who then stops).
It
is
so
painful
Hops
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Elaine,
What Light is saying is so very true. I happened to escape the easy way. If there was not an intervention I would have been in it, although I was out, only 3 years ago and I left over 15 or more, I think, I forgot.
I had children with the man. Long time to go00000 even when your out! And right Light, is it over ever? Don't know, so far so good. I would think so, but never know. But there are no more legal ties.
Love
Deb
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But my question is......how long can a N keep up this behavior? Am I sure he can't change his behavior? He is still in therapy every other week. I would think in due time, I will start seeing the flickers, the signs, the reg flags.....and I haven't yet. He has changed his ways for two months now. That seems like a very short time frame but for him, that is a long time to maintain his composure.
Thanks to all,
Elaine
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Usually, they can keep it up until -- after the marriage honeymoon is over, according to reliable dv statistics.
Personally, I now realise, it was only one week after we were married, when the subtle brainwashing, and other techniques, were employed.
Sorry to be a 'doom and gloom' merchant!
Love to you, Elaine
Please do take care of you.
Leah
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My God, Elaine....
he'll behave as well as he has to.....
for as long as he has to.
When you're dependant on him.....
when you've boxed yourself in.....
and there are many ways to do that.....
that's when you'll start seeing red flags.
Forgive me for saying so, but..... you wrote:
"But my question is......how long can a N keep up this behavior? Am I sure he can't change his behavior? He is still in therapy every other week. I would think in due time, I will start seeing the flickers, the signs, the reg flags.....and I haven't yet. He has changed his ways for two months now. That seems like a very short time frame but for him, that is a long time to maintain his composure."
it appears that your sense of morbid curiosity has you hanging around, waiting to see what'll happen?
Or is it your hope?
If it's your your hope, I suppose you're already trapped in that train seat.
I've never been one to look at accidents on the side of the road.
I'm not sure that I even can, at this time.
Why get on a train that you're pretty sure will wreck, Elaine?
Esp if there are young innocent children strapped in next to you?
Please explore, within yourself, why you haven't run away screaming from this scenario,
so that you may make better choices in your life.
AND YOU CAN MAKE BETTER CHOICES, of course you can. You deserve a loving reciprocal relationship, not an ongoing escalating nightmare that you can never wake up from.....
right?
(((Elaine)))
Please look around this board..... there are many who can help you understand.
Lighter