Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Ami on April 16, 2008, 11:44:19 AM
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I have had a few breakthroughs in the last week.
I had one, yesterday. When I would be with female friends, I would have the feeling of being numb.I, also. would have a depression come over me, and sometimes, a stomach ache--bleh.
My friend told me to just sit with these feelings, first of all and just note them.
I have been doing that.
I have seen that I am 40% present and 60% numb.
He said to just "BE in the 40% present" , not in the 60% part which is trying to protect myself(from my M, the old tapes)
He said the 40% part would grow and at some point, I would just BE present.
I tried this today, when I was with a friend. I did not hold myself in a defensive posture, to ward off her anger or rejection(i.e. treat her as if she were my M). I just relaxed and realized that IF I was hurt, I could handle it. I didn't have to be in a "suit of armor"--bleh.
We had the best conversation and were the closest we have even been and I have known her for over 20 years, from before I had children.
I had another breakthrough, too. I had always pushed myself to go out and do things with people and activities, even though I ,usually didn't want to. I made a decision to have a program to be more social, but do it at a pace that was comfortable.
Also, I am going to accept help on fixing up my house, without feeling guilty.
I need help in many,many areas. I AM a failure in ALL those areas ,according to my M, but screw it, so what? I AM a faliure in her eyes and always will be,but I just can't do things up to that standard,in the outside world OR myself.
I am a faliure ,in her eyes, b/c I am NOT the "top" in everything. I am NOT.
My house is always going down and I, myself, have many sides that are not good, but I have many sides that I like, too.
I just have to surrender to God b/c I made a huge mess of my life trying to follow what I was taught.
It never worked.
My friend accepted me, as I was and I was able to begin to love myself. Then, I could see these long held patterns that were based in self hatred and shame b/c I was not meeting perfectionistic standards.
I think a good deal of our self hatred is b/c the standards were so impossibly high that anyone would fail ,who was trying to meet them. Then, we were set up to hate ourselves.
Ami
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My other breakthrough was in always looking for a mother from the outside. I see that it won't work to go more IN to dependency. I will go down,not up, even if I could find s/one who would "be" my mother.
It was a huge revelation b/c I have tried to find a mother in all of my relationships, male and female---bleh.
I feel a sense of hope for finding my own core and with my own inner peace and happiness.
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Ami,
I'm at work, so this is a qwik post, but WOWSER!! These are such big, huge, enormous revelations. Gosh, These revelations go to the core of who you are and what you feel and your awareness can only eventually lead you to a happy life.
One clarification: You are not a failure, your NM may see you that way, but it is not true. It's just another of her distorted lies and I'm glad you see this.
I think that when we feel our parents view us as a failure, it taints our entire life because kids naturally seek approval from parents and when the parents never give approval, kids feel defective to their core. So, we must give up the wish, dream that our NPs will EVER approve and instead, we must get approval from ourselves-I guess this is what is meant by reparenting ourselves
love,
anne
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Oh Ami, I am so glad that you have had these breakthroughs and insights. That will be a great help. I really want to encourage you even though I can't quite come op with more depth to my post. You are on an important journey and are clearly moving straight towards healing.
I am standing by cheering for you.
Love,
GS
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Dear Ann and GS,
Thank you so much for your posts. I am all "over the place", emotionally, right now.
I see that my M told me I was 'bad". This encompassed ALL of me, my emotions, thoughts, perceptions. I am getting the "inkling. "(lol) that it was a lie. I have a huge rage . I could really destroy her.
She "fooled' me in to throwing myself, away. She fooled me in to thinking 'human" was bad.
She is still trying to undermine any confidence or trust.
I am going between depression and rage.
I am thinking that ALL of it with her was a big, fat lie.
I can see that I truly got broken down emotionally ,like they would a POW. I could not hang on to truth. I got "blank".
I could not reason or see myself, as I was.
I, virtually, WAS the clone that Vaknin talks about.
The N's send out clones.
I am blown away by seeing this--bleh. Ami
PS The ONLY thing that keeps me going are my dear friends on the board b/c whenever I want to think that *I* am all alone, I think of you, who struggle with the same thing----N damage. Other people could not get it.
My friend, whom I talked to ,today, had an alcoholic for a F, BUT can not understand what I went through. When I tell her about my M,she cannot understand---period. You, on the board have been through N 'torture" and do understand .
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I had another breakthrough. It was seeing that IF you have an N parents, other people do not and cannot understand YOUR life.
Part of my going in to a shell was trying to share my life with other people who would look at me strangely. They would give me advice based on Non N's. I felt like I was failing b/c advice that works on a Non N will NOT work on an N.
Even with an NH(or very Nsih), the same advice that would work on a non N will not work on him. I tried being"nice' etc. What works is brute force(lol)
So, there are tools for N's that you have to use ,which other people who do not have N's do not understand.
The people I share my deepest heart with,now, understand N's.
I can have friends who do not understand ,but I cannot expect them to
get it",in this area of life. Ami
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(((((( Ami ))))))
Please know you remain in my thoughts and prayers.
Leah x
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Thank you Leah, Amber, GS and Ann
I appreciate it so much when I see so many caring replies. I am getting to the deepest level of lies. GS inspired me, with the shame thread, to really dig deeply.
I feel like I am on the verge of losing my mind, but hope that I am on the verge of gaining it(lol).
The deepest level of pain is my NM's brainwashing that I was "bad" for having "selfish" thoughts or wanting to have a sense of myself.. It is funny ,but I just realized that THESE are the things that the N is all about. THEY are supremely selfish and want to be number one.So, I was shamed for exactly what the N is. That is funny. I know this must mean s/thing
I know that I do have a core inside me. I just don't trust it .
If I could be convinced that I was "human " and not "bad", I would be well. That would be it. I am on the last step, I think.
This part hurts the most. I can see HOW violated I was and how I believed it. I feel like I was scammed ,robbed , violated as if s/one broke in to my actual house.
I have been victimized, for sure.I see it and feel it, right now, as I have not before.I feel tremendous rage to my M.I want to fight back ,NOW, the way I couldn't when I was young.
I am feeling all the things that I suppressed.
I really hurt badly, but am hoping this is a pivotal point in healing. Thanks for all your help . Ami
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My friend accepted me, as I was and I was able to begin to love myself. Then, I could see these long held patterns that were based in self hatred and shame b/c I was not meeting perfectionist standards.
I think a good deal of our self hatred is b/c the standards were so impossibly high that anyone would fail ,who was trying to meet them. Then, we were set up to hate ourselves.
Ami
Ami -- I could relate with this. Self-acceptance is so important but until we find someone that we feel completely safe in sharing ourselves with we will have a hard time accepting and looking deeper into ourselves in order to integrate the spilt off parts, the parts that NM did not want and did not accept.
God can be a source of that unconditional acceptance too, just think, He can see completely into you and He knows you better than you know yourself -- God still wants to be married to us, or united to us despite ourselves and our mistakes.
If God can accept all of me then I can accept all of me too...slowly I can begin accept my low self-esteem, my failures, my own feelings of insecurity and self-doubt.
Your friend is a blessing from God. My girlfriend who got married this past weekend is just one of those blessings for me too. She is wonderful...we met about 6 years ago, I was more a mess than I am now. She is healthy, capable of genuine love and full of self-respect. She saw my brokenness but she loved me and never made me feel ashamed. The other night I was talking to her on the phone; I asked her why she wanted to be friends with me back then, six years ago, she said that despite my issues and my low-self esteem, she saw so much more -- the cup is never half empty-- It is only almost full :D Just like with you Ami -- you may see issues but I see wonderful person with some really good qualities.
Hugs,
Lise
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Thank you,Lise. That is so sweet. It really touches me.
You are right.My friend does not shame me. Instead ,he tells me how he felt or feels the same way. It is special.
My local radio station changed from regular programmimg to Catholic programming. I am not Catholic,but it is very peaceful . It is 24 hours.
I, always, think of you, Lise, when I listen.
The bottom line of ALL is that we have God.
If you care to, go on U tube and listen to the song,"I will take you home". My friend sent it to me and I started mourning Scott when I listened. I started being able to really cry.
It is about God's love(IMO) . It says we can't be lost when we are ALWAYS found. It talks about God taking you home ,in His arms.
We are not lost ,Lise. We are always found . We just feel freaking lost(lol). Love Ami
(((((((((Lise, Me)))))))
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I might as well spill ALL my guts on here.
My H is telling me that HE wants to kill himself. My best g/f says that she has a vision of it. She DID have a vision of Scott's death, a year and a half before he died. She told me to take him out of school. I tried ,but he convinced me he wanted to stay.
My H is home for 2 weeks.
I am really, really "hitting the wall".
I am going to have to tell him that I cannot "engage' with him emotionally. I really am just starting to feel a little bit better.
I will have to do that. I will call Ann and have my H talk to Ann, not me. Ami
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I might as well spill ALL my guts on here.
My H is telling me that HE wants to kill himself. My best g/f says that she has a vision of it. She DID have a vision of Scott's death, a year and a half before he died. She told me to take him out of school. I tried ,but he convinced me he wanted to stay.
My H is home for 2 weeks.
I am really, really "hitting the wall".
I am going to have to tell him that I cannot "engage' with him emotionally. I really am just starting to feel a little bit better.
I will have to do that. I will call Ann and have my H talk to Ann, not me. Ami
Ami --
I'll keep you and your husband in my prayers. ((((AMI))))
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Thank you((((((((((Lise)))))))))
I need Ann to help me. I can't carry this myself. I realized that, after I wrote it. Love Ami
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I can't carry this myself.
WHO COULD CARRY SUCH A TERRIBLE THING ALONE???
I'm glad you're getting help, Ami. This is an awful thing to having hanging in the air.
Hops
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Hi Ami....i just read this thread and I am so sorry you are hurting. You are having so many breakthrus, getting to the core of your injuries and then your husband tells you what he did. Thats a huge load for anyone to carry. Please keep writing here as you have friends who do understand. Your decision to have Ann talk with your H sounds very wise and self protective.........Thinking of you Love, James
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Dear Hops and James
I was really embarrrassed to write about my H,but I am so glad I did. I told him that I cannot "engage" with him on anything other than "practical topics" .
I can't. I cannot be an emotional rock for him, when I am just beginning to feel a little better, or I was , before this.
I simply can not go on with his burdens,on top of mine.
I told him this and he did not like it,but it is a pure survival mechanism for me.
Thank you so much for your responses. I really needed s/one else to help me see the obvious.S/times the most obvious thing eludes you. Love Ami
((((((((James, Hops)))))))))))))))))
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I might as well spill ALL my guts on here.
My H is telling me that HE wants to kill himself. My best g/f says that she has a vision of it. She DID have a vision of Scott's death, a year and a half before he died. She told me to take him out of school. I tried ,but he convinced me he wanted to stay.
My H is home for 2 weeks.
I am really, really "hitting the wall".
I am going to have to tell him that I cannot "engage' with him emotionally. I really am just starting to feel a little bit better.
I will have to do that. I will call Ann and have my H talk to Ann, not me. Ami
Hi Ami,
Praying for you in this situation. I thank God that you have Ann as a means of support.
Your H maybe wanting to offload his emotional burden, selfishly, to ease himself, I say this from personal experience as that is exactly what my now exH did to me, though at the time I did not realize.
I pray, and hope, that your H will sit and open up to Ann.
You have carried too much (((((( Ami )))))) too many burdens.
There is a generational spirit of suicide passed down from father to son, in my now exH's family, which I believe is now broken, by saving my exH from suicide at the brink, with God's help, not I alone.
I extend my sincerest empathy, Ami.
Love, Leah
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Thank you, Leah. Your prayers mean so much, as do your kind posts.
((((((((Leah)))))))) Love Ami
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I see that my stomach problems are about losing the ability to protect myself. When I told my H that I can ONLY have practical interactions with him,I felt better.
I see how I have been living 'outside " myself, meaning that I am furiously trying to get the outside to make me OK, validate my reason for being.
This time period(right now) seems to be the hardest thing I have ever been through. I am hoping that I have 'gone back" emotionally to the time when I gave myself up and am NOW are taking myself ,back.I am hoping that this is why it is so hard, righty now.
It would be worth everything ,if that were true.
I appreciate so much the love you give. Ami
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Thank you Amber. That post really helped. I appreciate, so much, that you shared those insightful things with me. Ami
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Ami - I know, for me, that when my NPs were never pleased with me, never praised me, never showed any appreciation for anything I did, I myself kept raising the bar (expectations), thinking that if I could only do more/better, I would win what I craved. As an adult I was/am stuck with those high expectations of myself. And I keep disappointing myself.
towrite
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I have had some more breakthroughs.
I talked to my M ,this morning. She owned HOW she was as a M. My friend, beyond smart(lol), showed me just how manipulative my M was. I saw how sly she was,finally.
She owned many things that she had previously 'thrown" on me. It really helps if the N CAN own things. Vaknin says as the N gets older, s/times they can change. I don't know. I just know that it does help to put back ON her what WAS hers,
My H and Ann decided that he cannot put emotional issues on me. That has ended, Thank Goodness and thank you to sweet friends, here, for your love.
It is so wonderful not to be alone. The people on the board understand N's and thus understand the life experience you HAVE . I realized ,yesterday, that a person ,with non N parents, simply cannot understand the experience with an N parent. I am not going to try to "go there'any more ,with 3 D friends, who simply cannot understand.
The mothers in the grief support group understand my experience with Scott and another mother cannot. It would be impossible, no matter how hard they would try.
That is understood by people. The N parents is exactly the same. S/one HAS to have lived it. If I expect s/one to understand, I will be dissapointed and feel a rift with that person. If I know they can't,I will enjoy our relationship,on other levels.
That was a big breakthrough. Love Ami
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I am so cheering for you. I don't understand what you posted about your husband's putting emotional issues on you and would like to know what you mean. But if you don't want to go into it then I am just glad that are free of it now.
I think that realizing who can and cannot understand is a major insight. For me it was life-saving but only because I found this place with people who could understand the N parent. I had wasted a life-time trying to get people to listen to my pain and having friends and people I really cared about turning away from me. I was desparate for understanding and compassion. This article that LilyCat provided the link for really helps me understand why noone cared or had empathy for me and why they all turned their back on me. This article - especially the end - opens up an understanding of this lifelong struggle of voiceless screaming and doors shutting.
This time period(right now) seems to be the hardest thing I have ever been through. I am hoping that I have 'gone back" emotionally to the time when I gave myself up and am NOW are taking myself ,back.I am hoping that this is why it is so hard, righty now. I posted on another thread today about how fear and doubt of healing have negated the positive effects of so much healing that I had accomplished earlier in my life. I feared that the healing wasn't real and feared that I didn't deserve it and I doubted that the healing would last. Those fears and doubts became more powerful than the healing.
I'm telling you this because I see the fear and doubt in this part of your post. You are healing but you are afraid that you are not and you are afraid that you don't deserve it.
You are healing. Go back and read your posts from the past couple of days and you will see it. Don't doubt it. Don't give power to the doubt. Believe, have faith and wait for the healing to manifest.
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Dear GS
You are such a wonderful friend. I read a some of that article and may have understood, a little. I can see that there is tremendous wisdom, there,but it may take time.
What I got on a first reading was that we have to OWN our feelings and not minimize them b/c they are not "politically correct," unacceptable to us or unacceptable to our "parents".
I used to do this ,when I was younger. IF I had a feeling, I owned it,simply b/c it was mine and I trusted that it was human and OK, just what everyone had.Is that what the article was saying, GS?
My H wants ME to absolve HIM of guilt over Scott. My H wants me to tell him that *I* need him ,so he doesn't commit suicide.
I told him that I cannot do those things or *I* will go under. It is that simple.
Thank you,GS, for assuring me of my healing direction(Up , rather than down,lol). I can see it, today. Your reassurances were a big part in my seeing that I AM going upward. Love Ami
(((((((GS)))))))))))
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What makes me sad is that your husband and you never talk about your other son, as he did not exist. It makes me feel like me. My ;arents treated me as if I did not exist.
How about Gregory, he might need you. Can you tell us some about him, please, please?
I feel so much for him!!!! Is he doing fine? does he have a good rel;ationship with you?
Love for youa nd praying for you!!!!
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My H wants me to tell him that *I* need him ,so he doesn't commit suicide.
I told him that I cannot do those things or *I* will go under. It is that simple.
OMG - That expectation is way too much. We all need someone in our lives to understand us and care about us but he has crossed the bar by trying to hold you responsible for whether he choses to live or die. But look - you drew the line. You are able to claim your boundary and that is very, very important part of the healing.
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Lupita
The point is I CAN"T talk about my son with him . I CANNOT handle discussing my son with him. Ami
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Dear Ami - You have my support and encouragement. I am just catching up now and can only second what people have said. This is so super-hard. It's way wrong of your H to put these things on you. I rejoice that you have been able to stand up for yourself and disentangle from his crazy net on this.
Reading this, it strikes me that he put a crisis on you. And I recall that he did this before around January, I think, when he feared he had a life/death health crisis - and he put that on you. Two things hit me (1) he creates crisis and (2) the crises are about him. This stuff is his responsibility to pick up and work on, if he ever does.
Both my parents create crisis (or use a crisis that happens) in different ways. It is a struggle for me not to go into red alert (and allow myself to be used and controlled) when they do this. I see it as a way that they get people to act for them. At bottom maybe that's how they seek love, you know? And/or reassure themselves that things are still the same (fear of change/loss of control). I can feel compassion toward that. In the past, my feeling for them seemed like a reason to dance to their crazy tunes. But it is not a reason. Time to stop dancing to the crazy tunes.
It is their responsiblity and they own it, whether they want to or not.
Our issue is to extricate ourselves from them placing all the stuff they own onto us. I think you are doing a great job and your growth and progress really, really, really shows, through all that has happened.
Also, the picture of yourself that was built by your NM and that dogs you and you are struggling to overcome - I see a totally different person than that picture describes. It's the difference between a phony picture and a real live, living being. And the picture just doesn't even look like the living being at all. No resemblance.
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Thank you, Iphi. I really appreciate what you wrote. I love your quote at the bottom. Who is the person who wrote it? Love Ami
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Ami - she was a writer who wrote fiction books in the 30's and 40's. The books are set in past times and have a big preoccupation with ethics, how to live, god and spirit. I like them a lot.
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Am- i am happy for your breakthroughs. Every step forward counts doesnt it? I guess the key is to get ahead so when the setbacks come you do not lose ground.
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Ami - she was a writer who wrote fiction books in the 30's and 40's. The books are set in past times and have a big preoccupation with ethics, how to live, god and spirit. I like them a lot.
Thank you for sharing , Iphi
I absolutely love your quote, which is new to me, yet, all my life, I have truly believed ... love makes the difference, genuine unconditional love.
Character, which has nothing to do with intellect or skill, can evolve only by increasing our capacity to love, and to become lovable. - Joan Grant
Love, Leah
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Thank you,Kim and Kelly.
I see God's hand in my life moving forward. I would 'like' to say that I was "strong" and used my strength to grow BUT I look back and see how God intervened when I really was on the way down.
God sent me people to help pull me up when I could not do it and did not want to.
Maria was telling me how she felt a pull to help me. She really raised me from the "dead' emotionally. She calls me "Lazarus"(lol)
Then, my wonderful friend loved me like Don Quioxte in 'Man of the Mancha"
He saw beauty, not shame , failure and ugliness.
He got me through Scott's death. My world was all wobbly and I had one sense of solidity and it was he.
It was purely supernatural. I did nothing to earn it or deserve it. It was God's love for his child(me).
I found God b/c of an NM. I lost Scott,but Scott had God, too, so he just arrived ,early(to Heaven)
I would not take back one ounce of the pain ,if I could lose God. I would not trade my life for s/one with a good M or H or kids who were alive.
I, as a Jewish person, did not have the God of the New Testament in my traditions. I had to be broken to find Him and I was,but it was worth it all. Love Ami
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I am so happy for you in your breakthroughs. Here's to one strong woman!
Kate
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Thank you, Kate.
I wish I could bottle "ups" and take them ,when I get "downs". Wouldn't that be nice. I could sell them and make a fortune(lol).
I am thinking of you, Kate. You do not deserve any of this sorrow. You are a dear, loving person. Any sane parent would be thrilled to have you for a daughter. Love Ami