Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: flower on August 09, 2004, 07:27:42 PM
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Thanks so much for your insight and support.
It aided my healing. Too much of my heart
was in this post to let it remain here for posterity on the web.
The post served its purpose and now it is time to
edit it or gently take it down.
To every thing there is a season, and a time
to every purpose under the heaven: Ecclesiates 3:1
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If you have had any insightful dreams about narcissists and would like to share them I would love to listen.
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Thanks so much for your insight and support.
It aided my healing. Too much of my heart
was in this post to let it remain here for posterity on the web.
The post served its purpose and now it is time to
edit it or gently take it down.
To every thing there is a season, and a time
to every purpose under the heaven: Ecclesiates 3:1
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The location of the dream was my parents' property. It was on a hill in a wooded area. There was a junk pile in that area. It actually was an exact location that existed, complete with the junk pile. The pile was full of old ruined rotten boards, broken furniture, rusted metal objects etc. It was raining. Among the rain soaked junk was a coffin. It was a beautiful expensive wooden coffin with a lovely finish. The rain was ruining the finish. I was dead and in the coffin. I began to be very sad in the dream because I knew that the rain was wrecking the finish. I couldn't understand why my parents didn't bury the coffin and take care of. It would be ruined. I then crawled out of the coffin and sadly began to wipe the water off the beautiful wooden finish with a cloth, wondering why my parents cared so little about what was happening. The dream ended..
I don't think this dream requires any interpretation. And the imagery is fantastic, I love it. Thanks for sharing it. I hope you take it to your therapist as a gift.
I had some dreams about my mom but they weren't beautiful like yours. In one of them, I was kicking my mother viciously and killing her. In another, she was cooking pasta and she casually put a giant tarantula in the pasta!
bunny
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Hi Flower,
I have been keeping a dream journal for a few years now, so I'll take a swing at it.
I read your dream as a marker of both an end and a new beginning. Many of the symbols can be read on two levels. Rain, tears but also that which brings new growth. The coffin is both a cage and a protection against your former life. You die, but then you come to life again. You are in the junkyard, yet have a beautiful piece of art which you want to care for.
It really is a beautiful dream.
Bunny, I like yours too! I've had some spider dreams and couldn't figure them out. In my research, a few interpretations hold that spiders are symbols of feminine power (both good and bad aspects) and how appropriate to be placed in a "web" of food, when a web is meant to catch food!
And of course there's the famous line, "What a tangled web we weave, when first we (something) to deceive..." somethin' like that :roll: .
Other times I don't interpret, I just enjoy the "movies" that come on at night! But when having the Major N falling out in my family, my dreams featured me generally screaming at a different family member on different nights :shock: Guess I had a lot to say... others featured these "strong, silent" type actors like Clint Eastwood and Charles Bronson showing up. I think that might have been my inner strength making a cameo appearance before screaming on the telephone at my dad again!
Well, post away! I like this :) Seeker
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Hello again Flower,
I am trying to remember the dreams I had when I was struggling a bit harder with all of this. I don't have access to all the stuff I wrote down (on another computer) but one image I remember which kind of sums up my family position is this: An ant walking amidst the towering blades of grass with a tiny camoflaged army helmet on its tiny little head. Talk about wanting to be invisible! 8)
I didn't have the overt rejection you experienced. It was way more covert and subtle. But a definite reality. Everything revolved around my dad although he disguised it pretty well. He gets his way or else. My coping device was and still is to become invisible. I am supposed to do well but not be proud of it :roll:. I become extremely anxious when people make angry "jealousy noises".
Another dream was of the two major Ns in my life smoking in a hotel room. I told them in the dream they had to follow the same rules as everyone else and told them to go outside if they wanted to smoke. For me, the smoking represented a filthy inconsiderate habit that was damaging to both the smokers and the people around them. :? (apologies if this offends smokers, but it's a metaphor...)
I do relate to your junkyard dream very much. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Any other cool images? As Clint would say "go ahead, make my day!" :D Seeker
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I was in a house that they were thinking of giving me. I already had a house.
Houses in dreams often represent the psyche/unconscious mind. You already have your own psyche but she wants to give you hers.
The bait house was kind of broken down and needed fixing.
Metaphor for an unrepaired, sick maternal psyche and maternal bond.
Anyway, I was in one of her bait and switch houses and my mom was giving me a huge pile of Valentine gifts to soften me up to come back into her web. There were red and pink heart shaped little candies with writing on them. Also lots of cards. There were gifts wrapped in colorful plastic wrapping. I felt bribed.
Your unconscious says that love from your mother is false and manipulative. Huge pile of gifts may also be a metaphor for a pile of poop. Gifts are often symbolic of poop, which can mean a lot of things. This begins in childhood where we get interested in poop and, at that time, ascribe meanings to it.
I think the dreams about the house are longings for a healthy bond between you and your mother. Unfortunately she has done a bait-and-switch deal which poisons the longing and it becomes a brokendown pile of crap. She keeps offering this bond (house) and taking it away. I suppose that's what her internal world is like and she feels constantly cheated. This is irrational and crazy.
bunny
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Hi Phoenix,
Interesting!
First, the Chinese restaurant setting and take out food might mean (if a dream) that you are seeking nourishment in a new and foreign and unknown place. You are taking it out into the bigger world but have trouble with the transition! (I find that Chinese anything in my dreams means cryptical and unknown. might mean something else for you)
Maybe you need to pause and plan your route because what appears to be easy and clear is going to hurt you! Consider what is "behind the curtain" (remember Let's Make a Deal and Carroll Merrill? ha ha).
They guys in the restaurant might be helpful guides warning you to slow down and consider your path. Sometimes windows and doors represent perspectives and/or birthing experiences (that is, entering a new phase of life). Doesn't have to hurt :wink: !
I think this episode would've gotten my attention too! Take care, Seeker
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Hiya everyone,
Flower, I think keys are straightforward symbols of gaining access to what was previously locked away, or conversely locking away something for various reasons (fear, safety, etc.). Keys can mean answers that open doors.
I recently had a bizarre and fascinating dream about a hidden unseen force moving my hand firmly to a doorknob. I was holding a key and the door led to a library. A friendly priest told me someone was waiting for me. There was a man (do any of you know the actor Rip Torn? that's what he looked like) dressed nicely and he looks up from a book he is holding and smiles at me. He wants to ask me some questions, like he is looking for information. I am filled with dread and the knowledge that he is the devil! Awyeeaw!
I think I was meeting up with my shadow and can't face it.
Yes, Phoenix, pretty cool this symbols in real life thing. There's a book (yeah, yeah, there I go again) called Practical Intuition that encourages this kind of thinking. I think it's pretty neat although I won't discuss it at the next ######## party I go to. :) Hey, wait a minute, I don't go to ######## parties. 8)
Anyway, I am very much working on the ol' inner life thing and am becoming very non-denominational, non-theological in my thinking. I prayed for guidance, etc. to see if this was "on the right track" or whatever. I went to church and promptly stepped in some green gum! Not just a little, a lot! and it was green. So I took this to mean that I should stick with it, :D . (I always take green to mean growth or "go ahead" unless it obviously means envy in context. ) Of course, it could also mean I was stuck. Hmmm.
What do you guys say? Seeker
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I've found myself many times while coming home getting my keys ready to open the door of the house/apartment/duplex/mobile home etc. (whatever place I was residing at) and when I go to put the key into the door, it is the key to my car!
[snip]
Well, the interesting thing that happened the other day is that when I went to open the car door, I picked out the house key to open up the car. This is a first. I told my daughter I must like it at home now. Things are resolved in my mind about my relationship with my baity switchy parents.
Interesting. Cars in dreams are often about being in control (or not) of one's destiny. The moving car symbolizes driving our own life along. Keys and keyholes can be about male/female relations, female energy in general, keys to new possibilities (etc.). Lots of food for pondering here. :)
bunny
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I think dreams are powerful. I always remember these from when I was little -- I just copied this from a post I made about 10 months ago.
Ah, yes the dreams. I had lots of dreams about people chasing and persecuting me -- the man in the black coat and black hat who would almost get me and I would fly up into a tree and he would wait on the corner under a streetlight. I still have that dream. From about age 7-9 I had the same dream over & over about my mother watching me, looking down from a 2nd story window while I was in the front yard raking leaves with my dad. We never had a 2nd story house, so I don't know what that was all about, but in the dream I would look up and she was glaring at me with pure hatred in her eyes. I told my dad about the dreams, and you know what he told me? "You have those dreams because of your hostile relationship with your mother -- you should try harder to get along with her." Can you believe that? Yep, he sure said it. Why didn't he tell her to stop it?
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The other parent appears to be a pansy of sorts I guess, or a partial N themself. I can remember when I guess I was about 10. She spent the entire evening shouting at him and threatening this and that, which we had heard hundreds of times. But that night she said to him "I would not sleep too deep tonight if I were you." Well, I lay in my bed terrified that she was going to kill my Dad so I got up in the middle of the night and quietly I removed all the knives from the kitchen drawers and hid them under my bed. I even debated with myself about the butter knives, should I hide them also? I also got in my little jewelry box and took out this big star pin I had cause it had sharp points on it. I tell you NOBODY, ESPECIALLY A LITTLE KID should EVER EVER EVER EVER have to go through that. :(
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Hi Moonflower,
Holy bat-crap. You had to talk your mom into handing over a gun? :shock: :shock: :shock:
Threats of suicide is more than N stuff. It's one of the signs of Borderline PD. I'm sorry I cannot remember from your other posts if you are already aware of this. Suicide threats are the ultimate in emotional blackmail.
And Discounted Girl, I felt for your trauma for having to hear your mother threaten your father's life. I am both proud and sorry that you were strong enough to want to take action to protect your father. How brave!
Both of these experiences are just incredibly traumatizing. And yet it sounds like you both have hope of healing and getting through it all. It's both mind boggling and inspiring. Hugs to you both, Seeker
PS. I think the Nness in the weaker partner is simple survival and safety needs. They are so unsafe themselves, they cannot think about anyone else (which makes it seem N). Sort of the flip side of the aggressive N monster who rages out of weakness to feel strong and to survive. Just really primitive.
Seeker
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Maybe your dad left the pistol with her thinking maybe she would follow thru & get everyone else out of their misery. Ohhhhhhhhhhh,,, :oops:
Yeah the NQueen would call me in the middle of the night yelling, "get out here quick if you ever want to see me alive again. I've had it!" :roll: So, single mother here, I would call the neighbor lady over to babysit in the middle of the night, I would drive the 25 miles out there, sometimes the roads were icy, and she would be there with her shotgun and in her nightgown, babbling on and on. My Dad was either in bed ignoring her, or sometimes he was working third shift. I never took drugs in my whole life, smoked pot now & then, but no heavy stuff. She was on valium like they were M&M's ,,, found a quack doctor who would give her anything she wanted. Ah, the agony -- where is the ecstasy? *cough*worthless pig*cough*.
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Thanks Seeker,
I hope I am not painting a picture of a wimp girl here, hope I don't have to change my name ,,,, :oops:
Well, no, I know I am strong. I have decided that not only does the Nparent have to have just the right ingredients to pull it off, but the victim also has just the right (should we say right?) substance to survive without going totally bonkers. Also, I think those who live in it and come out unscathed (or so it seems) either are in denial or don't have enough brain cells for it to matter anyhow.
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haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!! excuse me, I am crackin' up over the Eartha Kitt dream ...... would that be like my dream wherein Burt Reynolds was in love with me (back during Smokie & the Bandit) and he gave me a Rolex ...... jeeeez..
I only remember one dream she ever told me about and that was after her mother died and how she talked with her about the happiness in heaven. But the dream was more about her than about my grandmother, so it was an N dream, but maybe dreams can only be Nslanted. Seems like I have a lot about snakes, I wake up shaking. I don't ever remember speaking with her about my dreams either. I learned a long time ago to limit the deep sharing stuff, she would store it away and stab me in the back with it when least expected.
well, I never thought about the food angle. I can see how the NQueen would try something like that though and then feign innocence.
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Flower,
I was away from the board for several months and missed your postings on take-back gifts. I just read the whole thread. What a ripoff !!! What a bunch of cheats !!! It's a wonder she didn't have you evicted for being a squatter. Well, the NQueen is passing money all around to my brother and his kids and their kids and girlfriends (maybe some of them can get off welfare now). I haven't seen a dime. They never gave me any property or money or things of that nature, but she was fond of crocheting and knitting and quite accomplished at it. One time she gave me this king size crocheted rose colored bedspread, which was really wonderful and very lovely, except SHE DIDN'T FINISH IT !!!!!!!!!!!!! What am I gonna do with a half-finished crocheted bedspread ??? She just did it to frustrate me. I did not say anything about it, not because I didn't want to tick her off, but like so many other times, I did not want to give her the satisfaction of seeing me hurt, nor did I want to get into one of her Jerry Springer acts. I wish now I had just given the spread back to her or let her see me burn it out in the yard. She also gave me a nice white crocheted tablecloth, once again, it is not finished. She is a complete jerk and there is no way to figure these people out, but don't turn your backs.
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Hello Steel, errr, I mean Flower,
I am thinking your grandmother may been an N and your mother became an N because of her, so they had an Nbattle. Who knows .....
Oh, that would have been a hoot, to have Christmas guests over and invite them all in to see the lovely bedspread my sweet mommy made for her sweet little daughter. hahhahahha,, they would say ,, hey, you blind??? that thing is missing something !!!
The snakes -- well, I always heard that's about penises -- hahahah ...
You know, I just was thinking about something that makes me laugh. I once saw 2 roosters jump on her, on her back and head all over her, mad as hell. If 2 roosters jumped on me I would be screaming and running and crying and batting them. She was furious and turned and tried to kill them with her bare hands. Dogs, roosters and little kids never liked her :lol: I saw that right away as a child. I remember the little boy next door used to look at her through the fence and call her a "grouch." She was also rather like the grinch at Christmas, getting mad if we were shaking our presents and snooping around. One time I found a book under the seat of the car (that's how little I was, I was down on the floor in the back seat) -- I pulled it out from under her seat and she went berzerk. It was some Christmas gift she had hidden under there. I am not 100% sure, but I think it was a Bible Story Book of the Christmas Story -- ain't that a contradiction? I don't even wnat to go there.
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One time she gave me this king size crocheted rose colored bedspread, which was really wonderful and very lovely, except SHE DIDN'T FINISH IT !!!!!!!!!!!!! What am I gonna do with a half-finished crocheted bedspread ??? She just did it to frustrate me.
This is very wierd. My analysis of her:
...She lacked the attention span to finish it. She gave it to you anyway and wanted full credit. This is like a 4 year old giving her mommy some messy artwork and wanting a lot of praise.
...Half-finished is like her internal world. Her mind isn't all there but she is in denial about that, and doesn't notice a half-finished bedspread.
I would have been tempted to say, 'Um, this is lovely. Is this the whole thing?' :twisted:
And I would have thrown it in the nearest dumpster.
bunny
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Re: dream gifts.
During toilet training, children are very intrigued by the adults' focused interest on their bodily functions. The parents praise the child for pooping in the potty and the children consider their poop to be a gift for the parent. To them, poop becomes a pretty valuable commodity. It has other meanings as well.
bunny
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Bunny,
That whole poop thing is so interesting as i have recently studied Freud's theory of child development, the "anal" stage. I never knew that holding it in was supposedly pleasurable?? and a sign of defiance!? wow, what a concept.
That would be a clue as to how the parents were raising the children.
I, for one, did NOT poop on command. :x and so i received some laxative treatments. (it did not take place in this country for i think such things are banned in the US) :oops:
I was the only child (of 3) in the household that endured this procedure. Now, thinking back, i am quite proud of my feistiness!!! :twisted:
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It never occurred to me that such treatments may or not be banned - but I can tell you that it happens in Canada - this I know for sure - and I have the scars, both physical and emotional, to prove it, unfortunately. The ultimate control, punishment, and manipulation of a helpless child.
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Hi Guest (from Canada?)
Thanks for your comments. So, maybe i have repressed feelings of shame and humiliation during childhood? Yes, that would make sense and explain my shyness and lack of confidence in childhood, etc... Ok, maybe i have to do some work in this area of my psyche. Thanks for reminding me. but let's jump ahead for a second here.
Now that you know how powerful the pooper is and what a commodity the poop is, don't you feel empowered by that? Doesn't it take away all the shame? Don't you think you were GREAT to defy them bastards who tried to dictate you?!! Don't you feel at peace with yourself that your child instincts knew better?
Make peace with the pooper kid in you. He was right all along. :D
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Dear ch,
What a healthy perspective you have passed on to me.
Yes, my inner kid was scrappy and strong. Despite all the laxatives, enemas, later suppositories (I was so glad when they were invented) not to mention three trips to Emergency, even when I was a teenager, because of it all - not one person even thought that there might be a problem in that home, other than a kid who wouldn't do as it was told.
Yes, I was a victim of a crazy NMother who would use anything for control over every part of me, but now I wll see myself as that great kid who did its best to stick up for itself, against all odds! Yes I feel empowered by your perspective. I was right all along!
What a horrible subject, eh? (Canadian, for sure!)
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Hi Canadian Guest,
Have you ever seen South Parks?? Its a great "for-adults-only" cartoon. They make fun of Canadians like you wouldn't believe. Its just for fun. I am hardly ever mean.
Well, i am not from Canada. Apparently, the old laxative treatment was practiced in other parts of the world. Probably all around the world. Someday, research will reveal. Maybe we could be guinea pigs for them?
Glad you got my perspective on giving credit to that KID in you.
:wink:
ch
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Hi ch,
Just want you to know that we didn't kill Kenny :-)
Thanks for your smile in amongst all this dreadful toilet talk!
Canadian Guest
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I guess we need to look out for Terrance and Phillip. The NQueen should have had a child like Cartman, now he would have made her squeal for sure.
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That's an interesting point.
I think Cartman's mother is a spoiler type which is just as harmful as a neglectful type. She sets no boundaries and guidelines for her son. There is no father either. Cartman's mom reminds me of those picture-perfect sugar-coated moms of the 50's generation. She is ultra repressed and unrealistic in today's society. Looks like she takes valium too.
As bad as Cartman is, there is something about him that we can relate to and we tend to cheer him on. We know he is wrong and nasty all the time, but we know its a reaction of something much deeper. And we still like him, as do all the other kids. Without Cartman, there is no show, no drama, and no lessons to learn.
Of course, i'd rather turn on a half hour program and get my drama fix via four little 8-year old kids any time, than to endure real life drama of the N family.