Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Voicelessness and Emotional Survival => Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board => Topic started by: Izzy_*now* on April 21, 2008, 06:46:22 PM
-
I know of only one person on this board who is older than I.
I remember my grandparents, my parents, and have a daughter and grandchildren; 5 generations.
If I am reading , correctly, everything in the family lineup, it is my daughter who has broken the jinx of dysfunction in the family. She has been affected by it, but now she has 2 children who are well adjusted. Her 3rd child is my eldest grandson who is living with his N father, now for 8 years, and has developed some N-ish traits. I still love the little him I cared for, for 4½ years, and when he came to see me and I told him, much to his delight, about what he did then, he was overjoyed. He loved me more than the whole wide world, and his little sister more than….. Cheerios. She is now 19
I suspect that most others on this board are in the area of my daughter’s age, 44. She spotted the dysfunction in her grandparents, along with some things I discussed with her, and her choice was to keep herself and her children away from the dysfunction. I am proud of her. My dysfunction is a part of what she had to deal with.
With her therapy and mine we have reached a knowledge of one another that we never had, fully, before, as much was from outside (family) interference/traits//lack of understanding.
I know that physical abuse is a crime and can be proven. Emotional abuse might not be able to be proven and, as yet, is not a crime, by law, but is by human against human.
My generation is different from yours.
I lived in the generation, after I was finished school, and was working, when cigarettes were 30 ¢/pk and now are $9.00/pk. There were no computers at home or at work. I thought of this when I was out today and saw, in the drugstore, a young woman wearing the most beautiful 3” heeled, paisley shoes: red and gold, with blue jeans. I am a pleasant person and open conversations with strangers. She told me they cost her $100. I wished I had my camera. In my day (and that is what we old people say) I had a pair of 3” heeled paisley shoes and matching handbag, The shoes cost me $20.00 That was the expensive price and blue jeans, let alone slacks, were never seen on the streets. The clerk was involved with the conversation and said if all 18 year olds kept their clothing instead of tossing it for the ‘new look”, the old look would be back. Boy! I loved those pointed toed shoes!
I was not into body piercing and tattoos. I still don’t have pierced ears and am no longer into jewelery, not even a watch. Time does not rule me anymore. I have a watch, with the stem pulled, so as not to wear down the battery and use it only on an occasion of more than one appointment. I still have not used my cell phone.
I am in the ‘mother’s age group‘, here, and I have done things to make myself just be me and am liked by many people. How many of you can say that your dysfunctional mother has done something to rectify matters with herself, with you, her daughter, her son? How many of you can say that your mother even recognizes the dysfunction?
Perhaps this board is not for me as I am dealing with women who are my daughter’s age! Men and women differ and I won’t explain myself there. I have very little to do with the men on board, and will leave them to anyone who wants them. Obviously, it is not wise for a dysfunctional F and a dysfunctional M to get together. I will even add that my opinion, in general, is that those who want another relationship, cannot expect it to work, if one still carries baggage from the past.
In this day and age, women usually go out to work as many are single parents, or are trying to build up enough money to escape an N. A stay-at-home Mom is from the age of my mother, who would be 100 this year.
My daughter left her N with nothing but the 3 children, worked, attended University and has a medical degree. I am proud of her and it has nothing to do with me. It might be in the genes though, as I was always a hard worker, and I also know what it is like to have to deal with different personalities at work. I was not a ‘kept’ woman, I suffered physically to have the money I have today.
I am awaiting the return of batwing sleeved sweaters.
-
Oh Iz,
I am sorry if you feel, felt that I was avoiding you. I really am not. I have been reading and posting and having anxiety attacks looking up health issues in between. My mind is all over the place sometimes.
Talk about a lesson learned. I learned not to look up anything on the net because you will surely go from nothing to 4 days left to live.
Love
Deb
no Deb
I never felt you were avoiding me. I appreciate your post
When it comes to our health, the Internet can have a person dead in short order. I did a lot of searching myself, and did regarding my crooked leg.
I read that a cast must accommodate the possibility of more swelling, or the leg could die in there, and be amputated. Scary! The cast on my leg was from Emergency and was on for 2 weeks. It cut the back of my thigh, causing a skin injury that took some time to heal, was tight over the swelling, and caused the pressure sore on my heel. That's what I discerned from the Internet
Fortunately, the next ortho-- Dr. had it removed and saw a blood blister on my shin, had only the x-rays from Emerg. to work with, but first of all, when I saw my foot, pointing backwards, I immediated swivelled it to face frontward. I interfered with my injury, so will have to live with whatever comes forth.
There are silly things on the Net that will tell you when you will die. One of mine said June, 2008. ARGGGHHH! :lol: :lol:
Take good care
Love
Izzy
-
Well I'm an old bat, and you've inspired and cheered me, Izz.
And you've taught me a lot.
You are like one of those big airfilled punch-dolls with a weighted bottom (metaphorically, I mean!).
You get hit, swing over, and use the momentum to swing right back up again.
And your life story, especially your early life, has moved me always.
I would love it if you read The Dwelling Place--by Catharine Cookson.
You remind me a lot of her heroines.
xo
Hops
-
Ahhhhhhhhhhh, Hops
You are so sweet to me! I've had some lovely PMs and am so appreciative!
I want to add to my first post, but will do it here.
I made poisoned mud pies for Hitler.
I recall a neighbour man--yes and I was under the age of 6--- who I 'Loved' When I heard talk about his going to war, I crawled under my wagon and cried.
He married my mother's sister and became my uncle. I fell out of love somewhere along the liine.
Thanks for the 'punching bag who pops right back up' analogy. That has been me all my life. No matter the problem, I would not let it turn me into a whining little kid, looking for sympathy. I dealt with it and moved on! This is likely because I had no one to fall back upon!!! *I* had to do it!
The Dwelling Place--by Catharine Cookson.
I never heard of her. Would she be my generation?
Thanks Loads!
Love
Izzy
-
Dear Izzy,
How many of you can say that your dysfunctional mother has done something to rectify matters with herself, with you, her daughter, her son? How many of you can say that your mother even recognizes the dysfunction?
I can’t say that, and am coming to believe that I will never be able to say that ….. because she is broken. Through no fault of her own, she is broken – and that is sad for both of us.
It is just one of the reasons I appreciate your voice here Izzy. It is enlightening and a breath of fresh air to know that not all are like my mother.
Some mothers (unlike my own) are willing to work with their children to make a better relationship for all involved.
It shows a level of caring that I will never have with my mother, but that I can learn and give to my children.
Thank you,
Peace
-
Oh Izzy.....
you're one of the bravest among us.
You've been there, done that and live with challenge every day of your life.
You overcome and show us how it's done.... your way, of course; )
It would pain me deeply to see you, along with CB and Write.... (and our other dear friend who cannot be named ... leave too.
Really. You've been through a lot and shared the journey. You've become one of the old gaurd...... even if people don't always like how you say things.... we never have to wonder what you mean or if you're manipulating us to get icky co dependant needs met, no matter the expense.
It's part of what makes you you and.....
I
really
really
really
respect
and
admire
the child
the young adult
the parent
the patient who would learn to pee again
the champion who put her life back together
over
and
over
again....
Izzy.
Light
-
Oh Finding Peace
I really regret that you feel your mother will never see what it's all about. How old is she?
Ah! How does one know when one is dysfunctional? whatever the generation, whatever the age.....
I realized it at a wedding.......... and much later on--- the faces of girls/young women my age ---- their faces showed emotion, their faces shone with deliight, their faces shone as lovable, their faces were never filled with anger and spite. I knew they had something, but what? that I didn't have. I knew I was different, but how? No one told me when I was young enough to rectify it. I was not wise enough when I was young enough to not fall into the trap of the wrong people.--I am not worth it, so I chose the 'backstreet' women and men as friends.
But I came out of that way of thinking, and still was bombarded with hurtful things. It was my daughter's N.
and not knowing, I ended up with an N of my own, at age 59--ten years ago. I left and am 6 years on my own and digging into and examining my past and putting everything in order, then leaving it behind.
In doing so, I have far fewer problems in life, and am on the verge of my goal regarding my daughter and me. We will be OK now. We have crossed a big hurdle, and I am an old woman--- who is happy!
Does this help? or hurt?
Iz
-
Perhaps this board is not for me as I am dealing with women who are my daughter’s age!
I'm not as old as you, Izzy .... but I'm close. :)
Someone, hopefully, has to break the chain and say this is not working and I want a family. It seems like you and your daughter are doing this?
I get a sense of regret and sadness from your post. I guess lots of us reach the point when we realize we did the best we could with what we knew at the moment and now we realize we weren't able to change everything. I'm doing well enough now that I would like to think that I started the journey in what is left of my family. And I suspect you have started the journey in your own.
Actually, it was my father who started the journey for me. When he was 70, he finally started talking about his mother and father and his relationship with my mother. It was fascinating for me at the time. All the questions I had were validated. I was not crazy.
Anyway, I guess the feeling that maybe we have failed in not breaking the pattern is not always accurate. We are asking the right questions now??? And if we can't fix everything, we are empowering the next generation to ask them? The hardest thing I've had to deal with is that I can't go back with what I know now and change what I did then. But I can share the knowledge.
If I'm not responding to the specifics of your post, I am sorry. I am responding to the feeling I had when I read it....Take care....You're one of a kind!!!! I wouldn't mind being your neighbor. :)
-
My deareat lighter
You have always been so good to me and I really wish you well too. Your post to me is just so loveable!! Really, really!!
--"the patient who would learn to pee again"-- and you would remember that. It was a milestone in my life and you are great!!!!!
I was so touched by your post. I am so touched at how you understand me and I don't think I know your age--my daughter's age? So this old (er) woman has been through WWII and Hitler, and ration stamps. Sugar was red. Meat was brown. The ration books were handed out at school, one book per child, plus those still at home.
My mother was always saying we were going to the poor house. "You're driving us to the poor house". Boy! I sure was afraid of that poor house, whatever it was! We never went to the that poor house. Did they exist?????
The Government bought Dad's farm for $5,000.00 and he bought another farm for $11,000.00 having to borrow from my mother's father---Ewwwwww! Borrow from your father-in-law? The old farm is now listed at $499,000.00.
Then I was away when Dad sold his second farm for $25,000.00 ............Wow! A profit! About 6 months later a neighbour sold his for $100,000.00. It was a conglomerate buying up land, and I see that my father was read as a 'loser' while I know the neighbour guy would never be seen that way.
Dad bought a house in the city for $11,000.00, 1963. He died in '86, left everyrthing to Mom, and she gave each of us a cheque for $5,000.00 (Dad's farm) and the rest was hers. Mom died in '94 and the house sold for $120,000.00. Mom was finally free of the poor house, but in the hospital and couldn't enjoy a penny of it. How sad!
I think if we pay enough attention to what the parents have done, we can have a idea of what the children will be like. Some will break free though, and others will bask in how wrong they have been done by such awfu parentsl Sure! My parents were dysfunctional, but in the long run, they made sure their children would never go to the poor house!! Again, I am just sorry they didn't enjoy life, because they just weren't able to, let alone enjoy their children.
I expect that whoever posts whatever that it is expected it is the opinion only of the writer?
You hang in there , lighter
Love Izzy
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
hiya Lupine
The hardest thing I've had to deal with is that I can't go back with what I know now and change what I did then. But I can share the knowledge.
Good heavens, Lupine. Are you trying to make me cry? You and I are on the same page when we agree with one another. I love what you said in what I quoted from you. That is exactly how my daughter and I are dealiing with the past. We went back, as painful as it was, and talked about what each thought/did/why/ etc. in a certain circumstance. We are pulling it together and I am happy.
There are some people who will never do this, as it would mean admitting to mistakes/failure/ lack of knowledge.
I bared my awful soul to my daughter to show her it wasn't my rotten soul, It was my interpretation from actions and words from my upbringing/surroundings and how I tried so hard to reach a point of having a face, shining with freedom as I first saw in a high school classmate, a few years from graduation, when she became engaged. I knew then Boy! Did I know then!! I had something wrong and some work to do and I was maybe 19-20? Can you believe no therapist has done for me what this board has done and I am now 69, and like my parents, I missed out on life. I am not sad about it. After 69 years one is not looking for romance or a job....... I think?
We are asking the right questions now??? From another post of mine
Specifics weren't needed, lupine. I was with you all the way, as though I had written that myself, and if you read my post about crying for the first time in 15 years, I was almost ready for another bout!
Let me find my paternal grandmother--- a real piece of work!
xx
Izzy
-
Dear OC
I do NOT know what it is like to lose a child to death-I hope to never find out
I hope I never know either, but there are parents, every day, losing their children to suicide, murder, disease, and who is left to mourn, but the immediate family.
When I was 7, my little baby brother died, 6½ months old. When I think back to how my parents were then, how the relatives were then, how it was all handled, I am so sad for everyone involved.
His name was Johnnie. I carried him outside & sat on a window well to have him enjoy the sun. I wasn't told that as a baby, he couldn't sit alone. I let him go and his head hit the cement. He had a little break in his skin, but it looked like a huge mistake on my part. I was not punished. I remember thinking that maybe Johnnie would be the brother, the sibliing I never had. But he died of acute leukemia.
He was laid out in a little white casket in our parlour until the day of his funeral. I sat on Aunt Gertie's knee, and when the woman playing the piano, started 'Stand up, Stand Up for Jesus', she stood up and I forget everything until the graveyard, when I saw my mother wearing a hat with a veil, a white hanky and that all 5 of us kids were to go back home. (We were not to be there when the casket was lowered.)
In that day and age (as we old people say) there was not a word of his death at the table, around the house...no where. My little Johnnie was gone.
When my mother was dying, a sister asked if she ever thought of Johnnie. My mother said that she had next to forgotten about him. I was so surprised to hear that! I had never forgotten him.
How could a mother forget a child? I sure could not forget mine, and I was within a cm of losing her.
-
Can you believe no therapist has done for me what this board has done and I am now 69, and like my parents, I missed out on life. I am not sad about it. After 69 years one is not looking for romance or a job....... I think?
I don't think you or I missed out on life. We're still living it. And we're surviving!! And we're still longing to share what we have learned with those coming along. I mean like could it get better? We're doing OK. What if those elders had done the same thing when we were young? (Actually, some of them did which gives me courage now.)
The hardest thing I have done is to share what I know based on what I know at the moment with my children and let them do the best with what they know at the moment with their lives as they are at the moment.
Take care.....
-
Iz,
Oh now I think if you were to leave I just may become hysterical. I never thought I could attach to a group on the internet like I have here. I really consider you my friends even if it is just on line friends. I do miss the rest also.
Ouchhh Iz, you leg, ouch!! My D had a cast and the swelling did put a big gash in the back of her knee. But all was good and she put on a pair of high heel shoes as soon as we got home after they removed it. She was 2 and still is wearing them, well not same ones, but high heels.
She made me wear a pair when we went out one night for dinner, ohhh, I was not use to it and flew across the wood floor to my dinner table. Embarrassing.
Now I'm going back to read this thread. I want to look at the pictures and read the stories. I do love your story telling and I have embedded in my mind that plastic bag on your head you posted once. I still laugh.
Iz,
You truly are a special person (mom) out of all the people in real life I know who had turmoil with their moms not one has ever went to the extent you did to make it right with their D's.
OK I'll be back going to read now.
PS If CB and Write are lurking maybe someday you can stop in I do miss you all. Laura too.
Love
Deb
-
will be herE but dvd
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
IN THE COMPUTER
-
Iz,
Thats the one, (LOL) I love that picture.
Love
Deb
-
Thank you lupine,
You are right. We are still living our lives. Is yours the same or different now?
I used my weiner tweezers for the first time since she left home at 19. [I had chicken drumstciks, not the first time, but used the tweezers.] Before that there were always birthay partes, with hot dogs and hamburgers and my special cake. I have a butter icing that is to die for and have not made a cake or the icing since her 17th birthday.
On Apr 29th, one day after my birthday and 2 weeks before her 15th birthday, her father completed suicide. Such a blow to us, but it is over now. We know where his headstone is. The pain doesn't last forever, and 2 days later I was doing the laundry, as life goes on, and I cried.
We must all be prepared for changes when the children reach a certain point, when they no longer want what we thought was good for them. They make their own choices and we live with them.
It was so difficult when she met the N--even though I didn't know about Ns.
Yes we are surviving, and Yes, if the elders did what we are doing? well that is just an 'if only' ....a fairy tal;e dream.
Life is not fair and Life is tough! Anyone who thinks everything is handed on a silver platter is mistaken, and we can only work with ourselves--our own experiences, thoughts and resulte, good or bad.
All the best
Izzy
-
Hi Deb,
My DVD movie is just over, with a few Pauses so I could post my bag head pic, put things away and brush my teeth, etc, as now I will be off to bed. 11:53 my time, to read a book called 'Predator'--really weird!
Don't become hysterical. I am not leaving and not to toot my own horn, but sometimes I think I can be the voice of reason from the older crowd to the middle-aged. Since that is my daughter's status now, she is no longer the teen who thinks she knows it all and I am now the mother who has learned that I never knew it all, with her.
Your daughter was 2 with a broken leg? or was that a typo, and you in high heels sliding across the floor------hmm!!!!! did your dress stay down over your knees?
Really it is only we older people who have lived longer, who have the stories to tell, and being they are old, we can add spice to them, yet mine are all true---I just am able to laugh at myself.
With age, I found that I can do silly things like the bag on my head in the rain, and get away with it. It helps me to deal with the other parts of life, if I can think about these and laugh.
Then I think of the stupid things I went through and hoped to save my daughter from such things.
I was with a gang at a dance and we were all going to a frat house afterward. What I didn't know was it was all about sex. What I didn't know was that these girls I had known for awhile were into this. I refused and I could see I was in deep trouble ( a lot of whispering going on) and the next thing I knew I was physically 'picked up, carried and set down on the front verandah' out of the frat house and walked home, breaking a high heel, but while I was on the verandah awaiting a cab that never came, a guy came out and consoled me (He was to have called the cab.) I was not up to that and left. Later on in time we met at the dance hall again and he was as gentlemanly as could be and ended up driving me home. He almost raped me in his car. He just ended up with messy trousers as I escaped. Men can be the scum of the earth!
I found it too difficult to tell my daughter EVERYTHING, but I hoped I got my message across.
ah! Yes Life is still the same if not worse than when I was in my late teens early twenties I tell my stories in bits and pieces but could never assemble all I have confessed here, to make a book. I would start old, be born, be 20, be 55, be 30 Nope I have no authoriing skills.
I too hope that CB and Write come back, as well as changing and I see Certain Hope has been missing. tt as well
Take good care and I am glad I kept the bag picture for your enjoyment.
Love
Izzy
pretty old-fashioned, eh?
not even a microwave oven
-
Certain Hope is still with us and CB checks in.... though not on the board.
Change is MIA again...... haven't seen Write around lateley: (
Save your energy for yourself and those who can benefit from your experience and honesty.
You and I..... part of our journey is learning to detach at the right time. Free ourselves emotionally.
We live in a world where people don't want the truth, esp some of the truths we've seen.... truths that have marked us.
They don't want to know..... it's easier to attack the messenger than take a look at the message, IMO.
Esp if the messsage is attached to a nightmare.
I still have a desire..... a NEED to talk about these things so people may understand and I'm working on it.
So far...... people who will not hera the truth.....
cannot hear the truth, no matter how we say something.
Blame the messenger, the tone in our voices, the way we carry ourselves, the amount of money we can make....
blame our parenting but they won't accept that message.....
bc
bc.....
oh dear.
Another puzzle: /
-
I'm 45, Izz.... but both my best friends are feisty 75+ year old women.
One has her doctorate in teaching and never married.
The other raised 3 boys.
I've enjoyed a wealthy of wisdom from them both.
And you as well.
Lighter
-
Dear Iz,
It doesn’t hurt it helps. You give me hope (cautionary hope with my heart guarded) that it is never too late (for my mother).
She is approaching 70, and that puts me, physically, in my early 40’s (although mentally I vary between 2 and 80, :) and through the wise people of this board, I am learning that that is ok too).
As far as how does one know when one is dysfunctional – I don’t know the answer to that. It is a very good question. What lights the spark in some to question and work to improving life and others not? Is it because you hit rock bottom and something cries out inside that there must be a better way? Is it because you observe others around you and decide to question the things about yourself you just took for granted? Don’t know, but you’ve given me a great question to think about.
As far as my mother, I think she just doesn’t see (our) dysfunction (and I say our, because it isn’t just her it is me too). As a child it was her – I didn’t have an option. But as an adult, it has now become “our” relationship and there are 2 sides to every coin. In any case, with her, I think it is generational – she is a very, very rigid controlling woman – there is no flexibility. She lives by an internal set of rules that cannot be bent, for anything. Hard to put into words, but her rule system is so convoluted and unbreakable, that if she opened her eyes to a different way of doing something or possibly a different belief, I think her whole house of cards might come crashing down. And therefore she can’t.
It is funny though – universal synchronisity – I just received an e-mail from her, and it has a much different tone to it than usual. Yesterday I wrote "never." Today I wonder. I am a bit in a dilemma on what to do. Past history tells me it is hopeless – it is just another ploy. In the past it wasn’t because she cared about our relationship – she cared about how our relationship was perceived.
I went NC about 1.5 years ago. I know you are an advocate of NC, and for me it was very true, I had to get out of her web to really see it. But, this recent e-mail has me wondering if I shouldn’t try and give it another chance – with eyes wide open and heart guarded. NC is a pretty strong way to say to a person I will tolerate no more? Maybe she can learn, maybe we can try again and learn a better way together.
I don’t know – I am a different person than I was 1.5 years ago. My one fear is that I am still too fragile in the new me and will get sucked back in.
I have a lot of thinking to do.
Thanks for asking Iz,
Peace
-
Hey Iz,
Yep you heard me right. My D was 2 when her leg was broken. I was in the hospital having my son and G-ma N side was watching my D with my nephew who was 10. I lived in a two family house where the landlord put plastic on the stairs (stapled down) to keep them clean. My MIL decided she needed some beer and out the door they went. (didn't know there was drinking and never told that till my little nephew revealed it) My nephew was carrying my D down the stairs and the plastic pulled out and down they went. My D's leg got caught in the banister and it broke.
They never told me she hurt her leg that night. My neighbor called me in the hospital and told me my D was crying all night long.
I left the hospital and took my D to one and this was the result. G-ma was never alone with my D again.
My FIL was (now I know) and N and of the worst kind and that is why my exh was an N or psychopath if not worse. My MIL suffered terribly (within herself) I know this now but dealt with it through drinking. Sneaky drinking. She was no N but suffered in pain quietly. She did the best she could though but was never rewarded for her efforts in trying to make up or make good later on in life to her children. She remained Voiceless. Her exh my exh's father was glorified even though his children knew he was a schmuck (because he was high ranking in what he did) and well liked for the phony he was. I believe she carried so much shame that was not hers (her whole life) and they were divorced. There were horrible things he did to her (emotionally) horrible and I guess back in those days you sucked it up and kept it within yourself to suffer a life time.
I'm not sure Iz in those days if you went to see a Psych for emotional problems you would have not been labled A NUT, to the NUT house by others. Men were the providers and what they gave out is what you should have dealt with as a WIFELY duty. Stand by your man kind of thinking, afterall, he's just a man. I remember when I was little most mothers stayed at home but my mom worked and enjoyed it. She was somewhat of a rebel I guess.
Only you (and people like my mom) dared to step out and rebel way ahead of your time. I mean the era.
Love
Deb
-
Thank you lighter forthe affirming post
Throughoout life we are bound to find people who will never understand us, because of being on a different wave length, or believing that their lives are far more important than the lives of others, whether going through problerms, or living well.
Being on a different wave length is akin to separate realties, i.e. N-ism and non-N-ism.
Yes. Most definitely! Some people do not want the truth. It throws them off their intended course/plan, to garner sympathy or admiration.
and PR
It is pleasing to see you agree with lighter, so therefore we agree too.
I believe we owe it to our children to make the path of life as smooth for them as possible, as when the time comes for them to make their own decisions, they will have had a good start. I also believe that our children, on their life journey, can pick up on more relevant things to pass back to the parent to keep them on the up-dated path--from embarrassing ourselves!
More simply said, it was becasue of the lack of Thank you notes from my daughter and her generation of first cousins, that I questioned if these Notes were no longer expected. Even my therapist said she does not send Thank you Notes, so I learned from the younger set.
I also took all the doilies off my end tables etc. --- that came from my grandparents' generation and to even have them on the arms of the sofa and chair.
Keep on keeping on.
xx
Izzy
-
Hi, Izzy,
I'm still around... and glad that you are, too.
There's a good blend of voices here, even when there's not harmony. These days, I'm learning more by watching than by speaking... but I do hope expectantly for an outward turn in the tide and farrrrr less blame shifting. Personally, I get sick of myself... lol - - and that is definitely a very healthful place to be, imo.
Love to you,
Carolyn
-
Hi FP
I thought once that I was too old to change and I wonder if there are older people who cannot--like your mother--change her way of life. I see she is my age.
I expect it depends on how deeply ingrained her ways are. I don't know when'seeing another person's point of view' came into being. I wonder if it has existed from the beginning, or if for more recent generations. Some of out beliefs are etched in stone, such as not doing anything criminal, a belief in G_d, a belief that the sun will rise tomorrow, and that is faith.
so you know tha value of NC to yourself, and can your mother tell you truthfully what it meant to her? If her latest email makes her appear different, more conducive to a calm discussion, then I would say it might be worth another try.
That of course is your decision. The new you, your new understandings, might be stronger than you think.
I believe there are dysfunctional people who do Not realize it. Their opinions of themselves is that they are always right and then we head into Narcissism, but to what degree?
Keep on thinking and keep us apprised
Love
Izzy
-
hi CH
So good to hear your voice. Yes, just as children learn from example, we too can learn from keeping quiet and just reading.
However if we don't speak up at certain times, we have again rendered ourselves voiceless.
Personally, I get sick of myself----
Wow! FP read that--what a good way to know of our own dysfunction.!!! I heartily agree. Our guts will tell us!
Love
Izzy
-
Carolyn and Iz
(lol) Me too
Love
Deb
-
Oh Deb,
Grandma was to blame. Ouch and ouch again.
Yes, I believe the older generations just lived with their pain and never complained. I see my mother as one. I always sensed she had something to say but never said it.
When I saw a psychiatrist at age 19, it was a sign of insanity or whatever, and was not discussed. I was so embarrassed that I went only once, then, and also couldn't afford it on my salary. It my area it was the insane asylum, often mentioned, along with the poor house and both scared me to death, when I was little.
I really hope that future generations will step up to the plate, anad I truly hope my daughter has been successful in dealing with her children.
The off side to that, is that she had to explain our relationship and then mine with my parents, so now I don't know my granddaughter's mind.
I will not attempt to go there.
Love
Izzy
-
I wanted to jump in and post through the last whatever number of posters comments I just read.
My heart breaks then swwops and soars from paragraph to paragraph.
Wounded children growing through their pain and helping their children to do better.
Redemption. And I lied when I said I gave up on redemption. I never did.
As for healing.... I think there are those who look around and ask "what did I do?"
Then there are those are look around for someone else to blame.
I haven't lived long enough to trust that one can morph into another.
I only know that I have an idea who's who, when I listen to what people say.
As the eternal optimist... heh who'da guessed that's what my spirit began as.... I'm usually the last to close a door and never open it again.
From where I'm standing now... more than ever.... some doors must be left untouched in order to perserve sanity and safety.
Taking care of ourselves is the most loving thing we can do for those we love.
Light